BAL 2025, Ep08 - What Happens to Our Loved Ones When They Die ?

Doug Batchelor: Hello listening friends, welcome to "Bible Answers Live." Would you like to hear an amazing fact? It's been estimated that there are approximately 22,000 different species of ants in the world, but the Guinness Book of World Records lists the Australian bulldog as one of the deadliest species on the planet. Bulldog ants are also known as jack jumper ants for their jumping behavior. When agitated, they can repeatedly leap forward four inches in a bound. They'll chase you. They have superior vision and are able to follow or even chase an intruder from the nest. And they're very large as far as ants go, with some measuring over one and a half inches long.

That said, most healthy people would not die from the sting of one ant, but some humans have died from anaphylactic shock after being bitten by a bulldog ant. These ants have cousins in South America called bullet ants, and they carry what is believed to be the most painful sting in the world. If one should bite you on the foot, it's been described as feeling like you're walking on hot coals with a nail through your foot or feeling like you've been shot when you've been bitten, hence the name bullet ants. And the worst part is that the excruciating, throbbing pain can last up to 24 hours. But this is nothing compared to how many Christians believe God is going to torture sinners through eternity.

Jëan Ross: That's right, Pastor Doug. There's a lot of confusion about, yeah, well, what happens to the wicked? Are they going to burn eternally? And when they think they're just about done, well, it's only just begun because they're burning throughout all eternities. Isn't that what the Bible teaches?

Doug: Yeah, there's really like two extremes when it comes to what Christians believe about what happens when the wicked are punished. One group says, "Well there is no punishment and, you know, everyone's going to be saved," universalism. And then the other group says, "Yeah, they're going to be punished in the lake of fire and they'll burn for zillions of years, and then zillions, and it never ends." Just burning endlessly for the sins of, you know, comparatively a minuscule amount of time. And the Bible actually teaches something between the two.

There is a punishment of the wicked, but it doesn't go on for billions of years. Jesus said, "Each one is punished according to what he deserves, and ultimately wicked are not immortalized." You can read, for instance, in Malachi chapter 4, "'Behold, the day is coming that will burn like an oven, and all the proud,'" that's all of them, "'and all who do wickedly will be stubble. The day is coming that will burn them up,' says the Lord of Hosts, 'It will leave them neither root nor branch.'" And of course, Revelation 20 says, "They're destroyed." Fire comes down, and this is the second death. And then Revelation 21 tells us, "There is no more pain." And so, so many people have turned away from God because they have this medieval interpretation of hell that God is going to torture. He's basically saying, "Love me or I'm going to torture you forever." And they have a hard time loving a God that appears almost sadistic in one sense. Friends, you need to know what the Bible really teaches about this. And then one other misconception is the devil then of all things is in charge of hell. And how can you trust him to give people a fair punishment? So, we have a free offer that will give you all the scriptures and what the Bible really says about the punishment of the wicked. And we do this, not to scare people, but it helps you better understand the love of God.

Jëan: A free offer today is a study guide. One of the "Amazing Facts's" study guides called "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" Now as Pastor Doug said, if you've never read this before, you need to get it. It's easy. It's free. The number to call is 800-835-6747. And you can ask for that free offer. It's called "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" You can also dial #250 on your smartphone, say, "Bible Answers Live," and then ask for it by name, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" We'll send it to you for free. And you know Pastor Doug, it's so important. Actually, there's good news in the subject of the destruction of the wicked in the subject of hell, because God is a God of love. He always has been. He always will be. And I think that's brought to light when you study the subject from what the Bible says. So, please take advantage of that.

Before we go to the phone lines, let's start with the word of prayer. Dear Father, we thank You once again that we have this opportunity to study Your Word. And Lord, we recognize the Bible is Your book, so we do pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us as we search the scriptures. Be with those who are listening. We pray that You guide us to declare a Bible truth in Jesus's name, amen.

Our first caller this evening is Glenn listening in Ohio. Glenn, welcome to "Bible Answers Live." You're on the air.

Glenn: Good evening, pastors, and thank you for taking my call. My scripture today is the fifth chapter or the fifth verse of chapter 66 of Isaiah. And by the way, just parenthetically, I'd love to hear somebody do about five or six nice sermons on chapter 66.

Doug: Okay, we'll make a note of that.

Glenn: Yes. My question concerns the fifth chapter where the hated people in the chapter--in the first five say, "Oh the Lord be glorified," and they say it in a jovial way, making fun of the hated. "So that his joy may be full." And that was kind of a terrible thing for them to do, and they paid for it. My question is, what is the purpose of and the meaning of chapter verse 5 of chapter 66.

Doug: All right, let me read this for our friends, Glenn, because a lot of folks don't have a Bible in front of them. Isaiah 66:5, it says, "Hear the Word of the Lord, you who tremble at His Word. Your brethren who hated you, who cast you out for my namesake, said, 'Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy,' but they shall be ashamed." Now this is talking about, through history, and Isaiah was a victim of this himself. Those who tremble at the Word, they're the faithful. They believe the Word of God. They tremble at His Word, but their brethren, you could say, you know, part of their same faith group, the same church, hated you and cast you out. You know, the apostles were basically cast out of the temple because of their faith, and they trembled at the Word of the Lord. They believed the Word of Jesus. And then, as you say, it says, "'Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy,' but they shall be ashamed."

Now here where it says, "Let the Lord be glorified," I don't think it's the wicked mocking the righteous. I think it's saying, "God will be glorified because of your faithfulness, but they will be ashamed." So, it's basically saying, "If you're tempted, if you're persecuted for your faith, even by some who claim to be believers, follow the Word of the Lord. You may be cast out because of your faith, but if you're faithful in the end, God will be glorified, they will be ashamed." And you use the same word that they're ashamed, like when the Lord is coming, those who persecuted you will be ashamed.

Jëan: All right, thank you, Glenn. Great question. We've got Randy in Florida. Randy, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Randy: Thank you, pastors for hearing my question.

Doug: Thanks for calling.

Randy: Thank you. Yeah, there's a question of music, acceptable music during worship service. In particular, is music like rap acceptable during worship service?

Doug: Yeah, well, good question, and it's a difficult question when you ask about music because so often our opinions about music and what's appropriate are very subjective, but there are principles. And when you look at the principles, the most important thing about Christian music would be not just the melodies and the harmonies, that's very important, but what is the message? Music--in the Bible, the songs were to help us remember scriptures. We have 150 Psalms in the Book of Psalms. We don't remember what the melodies were, that's not been recorded, but we do know what the words are. And you've got the song of Moses, you've got the song of the Lamb in the New Testament in Revelation, and these were messages. And often young people remember scripture by having melody go with it. So, music can help us remember scripture.

So, now you're asking about rap music. You know, I personally--I think that's sort of an oxymoron. I think there's some music of the world, and just because you throw in Christian words, it doesn't really sanctify what may be worldly music. And that doesn't mean that some of the worldly music is not amazing or talented, but you have to ask, is all music good? Follow me. In the Bible, it tells us that King Saul would be overcome with an evil spirit. David would come for the king when he was being tormented by this evil spirit. David would play his harp and sing, and the evil spirit would be driven away by good music. Obviously, David inspired prophet, godly music. If there's good music that can drive spirits away, is there bad music that can welcome evil spirits in? And I think it's a fair question. I think there is. So, we need to be very careful in the choice of music that we bring in our church, that we're bringing in the right angels actually.

Jëan: And you know it's also good to look at the history of the music where it's coming from. Protestantism was built upon the Word and the teachings of scripture. Music played a very important part in the Protestant church and the Protestant movement where they were seeing their faith, and it had good theology, a lot of the contemporary style of worship music, somewhat lacking in the depth of Bible truth as far as deep scholarly references. Not that all music has to have that, but some of these great hymns like "Firm Foundation," that we have in scripture and—

Doug: "Great is Your Faithfulness."

Jëan: I mean these have a lot of solid meaning and—

Doug: There's nothing wrong with new songs, right? Yeah, Bible says sing a new song, but the new song should fit the principles of what would be God glorifying music and words and be teaching good theology in the process. You know, I have a book that it's called "The Christian and Music." And they might be able to contact "Amazing Facts" and take a look. I've got all the--kind of the principles laid out in there. You can't go through every song that's ever been done and say, "This is good, this is bad," but once you know the principles, people sort of get the drift.

Jëan: All right. Next caller that we have is Janean from North Carolina. Janean, welcome to the program.

Janean: Thank you. My question is, will I see my relatives that are--good questions, but will I see them in heaven.

Doug: Yeah, well the Bible's pretty clear. There is a resurrection. There are two resurrections. Jesus talks about the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. And those who are saved will be united together with other believers in the resurrection at the coming of the Lord. You can read about that in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4. It says, "The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with a trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them." So, it promises that believers will be together with them in the presence of the Lord at the Lord's coming.

And, you know, in the Great Judgment Day, where He separates the sheep and the goats, ostensibly, there'll be a moment when everybody's going to see each other again. So, there'll be a separation between the saved and the lost, but, you know, in that great white throne judgment, all will be present.

Jëan: We do have a study guide. It's called "Are the Dead Really Dead?" And it talks about the subject of what happens to a person when he dies, and also talks about the hope of the Christian, which is the resurrection of the Second Coming of Christ. Call and ask for that, Janean. The number is 800-835-6747. For anyone wanting to learn more about this important subject, you can also dial #250 on your smartphone and ask for it by name, "Are the Dead Really Dead?" We'll be happy to mail it to anyone who calls and asks. Albert in California. Albert, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Albert: Thank you for taking my call, pastors. My question tonight, when the Joshua and Caleb, when they went to visit the land and they saw, they reported to Moses that they were giants in the lands, according to the Bible, Numbers 13:33. My question is, are these giants were the same size as Goliath?

Doug: Well, I would think that some of them must be at least the same size. It seems like giants over time have slowly gotten smaller. You know, before the flood, men lived hundreds of years and they were ostensibly bigger. And then after the flood, it seemed like their lifespans went down and they probably got shorter. The giants in the time of Moses were probably a little bigger than the giants in the time of David. Goliath, of course, stood out head and shoulders above everyone else, but we had a man named Robert Waldo, who lived a 100 years ago that was eight feet plus. Goliath was nine feet six, and I think you got a verse about one of the kings during the time of Moses—

Jëan: You can read about it in Deuteronomy chapter 3, verse 11. It talks about a king by the name of Og, who was the king of Bashan. And it doesn't tell us his exact size, but it does tell us the size of his bed. And it talks about it being a certain length that works out to about 13 feet in length. Nine cubits, 13.5. So, that's the size of his bed. So, he could very well be nine foot, maybe even ten foot. Who knows?

Doug: Now you're taller than average Pastor Ross. Have you ever gotten in a bed where you sort of hang off the edge?

Jëan: That happens.

Doug: So maybe, who knows, that bed might not have even been big enough for you.

Jëan: But that's a big bed. So, yeah, there it is.

Doug: California king.

Jëan: Thank you, Albert. Next one that we have is Nel in California. Nel, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Nel: Thank you. My question is, what is the proper way to study the Bible? Say, so is listening to "Bible Answers Live," a Bible study, or does Bible study have to only be reading? Can it be listening to a sermon or listening to other programs who are studying the Bible with individuals.

Doug: Good, yeah, good question. Well, I think all of the above. I certainly hope we do this program hoping that people will gain a deeper understanding. I would also hope this would not be the only thing that they do in Bible study. It's really good to have your own Bible and, you know, we have computerized Bibles. I do a lot of my research on the computer cause you can access commentaries in the original languages almost instantly, but I also really appreciate my paper Bible that I preach from, and I've got things highlighted and underlined. And there's just something about it. I listen to audiobooks, you know, Pastor Ross and I are always swapping good audiobooks we listen to of history, and--but I also read paper books still. So, I think it's good to have your own Bible that you study, but certainly listening to the Bible read online, some people are more visual, more auditory, some are more tactile, and we all learn different ways. I'd say all of the above, whatever works for you.

Jëan: You know, we do have a book talking about the Bible. It's called "The Ultimate Resource." And it'll give some principles on how to read and study the Bible, where did the Bible come from? We'll be happy to send this to anyone who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747. That is the resource phone line. You can also dial #250 on your smartphone and just say, "Bible Answers Live." Ask for the book by name. It's called, "The Ultimate Resource." Again, "The Ultimate Resource." It is a great read. Thank you Nel. Next caller that we have is Eli and he is in Kansas. Eli, welcome to the program.

Eli: Hey, good evening.

Doug: Evening.

Eli: My question is, if we can overcome the sin, why are we still called sinners? Because--what about when you get baptized? Isn't the--like when you get baptized cleans your sin. And if we can like overcome the sin, why we have to lie and say that we are sinners, if that's not true. Like, can you explain that?

Doug: Well, you know, Paul--New Testament Christians, Paul typically addresses them as saints. He doesn't call them sinners. But, you know, if a person is still living a life of sin, you want to call him a sinner. And, you know, Paul says, "We have all sinned." And then the Bible says that, "Even believers may sin." James says, "In many things we offend." So, being a Christian, you're going to find that as you grow in faith, there'll be some stumbling along the way cause we're--it's a war. We're constantly being attacked by the devil and temptation. You just shouldn't get discouraged if you lose a battle. And you got to get back up and get back into the war. So, technically, once you accept Christ, Paul in the New Testament, they refer to us as believers and saints. I don't think there are too many of the New Testament writers. I'm just thinking as I'm accessing my mental hard drive right now, Pastor Ross. I don't know of anywhere where the apostles in their letters call believers sinners. Unless somebody outside of faith, yeah.

Jëan: And then he highlights that they'll change of heart.

Doug: But I know what Eli's saying is that it's true that a lot of pastors, you know, we--they kind of talked down the congregations as they're all sinners. And I don't know whether that's biblical to do it that way.

Jëan: Yeah, I think that there's a balance like you say, Pastor Doug. I mean, we don't walk around and say, you know, "We're perfect. We never sin--"

Doug: You don't want to claim to be saints.

Jëan: Yeah, because we're kind of setting ourselves up for failure. But at the same time, we can claim the promises of God, believe that if we confess, He's faithful and just to forgive us, and trust Him that He'll keep us from falling as the Bible says. All right, thank you. Next caller that we have is Dana in New York. Dana, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Dana: Oh, hi. I watched your video the other day from a few weeks back about all the gods and all that kind of thing and the temple, and I was just wondering, I know there is a faction of Jews very interested in rebuilding the temple. And if the Jews were to, you know, many will come, but--and accept Jesus, but I'm wondering, is that maybe why they would want to try to rebuild because they feel they need to? And if they do try, wouldn't that result in a pretty big war, maybe?

Doug: Well yeah, it would. And, you know, I've been to Israel maybe three times, at least three times. Pastor Ross and I were there together a few years ago. We stood where they've got the great big golden candlestick, that there is a group in Israel of very orthodox Jews that would love to see the temple rebuilt. It is a very small group. I'm sorry to say that a large part of the people in Israel probably live like agnostics or atheists. There are, you know, very devoted Orthodox Jews, there's a very zealous, a lot of patriotism in Israel, but there's not a lot of Bible reading. I'll bet you that if you were to stop, you know, one in ten Israelis on the street could quote verses to you from the Old Testament.

So, the idea that there's a big clamoring in Israel to bulldoze the dome of the rock and rebuild the temple, I would saying, no, that's not really happening. And as you said, it would cause World War III because the temple, the mosque of Omar that is on the same location as Solomon's Temple, that'd be the only place the Jews would want to build it. It's the third holiest Muslim site. The idea that that could be demolished, that would certainly get about a billion Muslims upset. And the reason we explain that is because people misunderstand that verse is it 1 Thessalonians, "Then that wicked one who calls himself God will sit in the temple of God showing himself that he is God." People assume that for the Antichrist to sit in the temple of God, that means the temple must be rebuilt. But they're taking that one verse and misunderstanding that the Antichrist sits over the temple, the spiritual temple of God. Paul said the church, "You are the temple of God." So, Paul is one who wrote that verse, and you've got to read it in the context of the author. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple made with hands. I will make one without hands." He spoke of his body. The church is the temple of God. The Antichrist is going to sit over the church saying--putting himself in the place of God. It's not talking about rebuilding the physical temple because the Jews don't practice the sacrificial system anymore.

Jëan: The verse you're referring to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, verse 3 and 4. And just to add to that, Pastor Doug, you know, if the temple was to be rebuilt, as you mentioned, they don't do sacrifice anymore, but besides that, it wouldn't take the place of the most sacred spot to the Jews, which is the Western Wall. Which dates all the way back to the time of the rebuilding after the Babylonian captivity. That to them is far more sacred because they actually have stone that dates back to that time. To build a temple, you know, with marble or granite or whatever it is right now, that's modern, but it's really the ancient stones that really have significance to them.

Doug: And in the Jewish culture, the centerpiece for the tabernacle for Solomon's temple was the Ark of the Covenant. They don't have that. They cannot copy the stones written with the finger of God. It's just not the same thing. So, the idea that they're just going to manufacture another temple. They're not pushing for that because it's like they said, "Ichabod," the glory is departed. They lost the ark or it's been hidden, and no one has found it since.

Jëan: All right, next caller that we have is Dasha from Kansas. Dasha, welcome to the program.

Dasha: Hello, pastors.

Doug: Hi.

Dasha: I have a question. It is from Matthew chapter 24, verse 8 and 9. And I was studying and I flipped over to Revelation chapter 13, verse 14, 15, 16, and 17 and I was wondering, does that--does those verses from Revelation fit in between Matthew—

Doug: Matthew 24:8 and 9.

Dasha: Yes, because I was trying to figure out is this the close of probation for the church?

Doug: Let me read this for our friends, Dasha. You're quoting verses and I want to read it so those listening know what we're talking about. In Matthew 24:8 and 9, "All these are the beginning of sorrows. 'Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.'" So, this great persecution that you're talking about, you're wondering if it fits into which verses in Revelation?

Dasha: It is Revelation chapter 13, and it is verse--actually it's verse 15, 16, and 17, and I wanted to know if that fits into there.

Doug: Talking about causing all the world to worship, and if you don't worship the beast and his image, you cannot buy or sell, correct? This persecution in the last days. The persecution that Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24 is really twofold. The first part he's talking about a great persecution that came against the Jews before the destruction of Jerusalem. And then there's a great persecution that came upon the Christians during the Dark Ages between 538 and 1798, when the church became a government institution and millions of true Bible Christians were persecuted and great tribulation during that time. There is a final great tribulation during the seven last plagues you read about in Daniel chapter 12 and in Revelation, is it 15 and 16. So--but the mark of the beast, time of trouble, that's connected with the very last one.

Jëan: That's right. So, when you look at Matthew 24, you have a time of trouble. You see this first time of trouble, which took place historically during the 12 and 60 years, but there is a repeat of trouble. Daniel chapter 12 was one, a great time of trouble, worse than there has ever been. But the good news is thy people shall be delivered. So, God's people will be delivered through that experience. That's why it says in Matthew chapter 25, "He who endures to the end shall be saved." So, it's dealing with both. It's dealing with the persecution that happened in the past, but there's definitely a persecution in the future, which is highlighted in Revelation 13. No man can buy or sell. Eventually, there is a death decree that is passed.

Doug: Yeah, and the close of probation you're asking about, that happens before the seven last plagues and this great time of trouble. But don't worry, just be faithful. God promises that he's going to bring us through that. It is through tribulation we enter the kingdom of God, so we don't need to worry. Jesus can get us through it just like He got the Israelites through the plagues. Don't go away, friends, we're just going to take a brief break. We're going to come back, take more calls.

Announcer: Stay tuned. "Bible Answers Live" will return shortly.

Female: We grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school for nine years. All the group of my friends and I would go to church every Sunday. I think as a young child, I had a closer relationship with God than I did as a young adult. I never really forgot Him, but I did. From high school I went to college and then after college, I went into the dance world and became a dancer. Got married late in my life, but at the right time. He also grew up as a Catholic. My husband worked as a software salesperson in New York City. We woke up early that morning of 9/11 and I said to him--I said, "Why are you not going to the city today?" He says, "Look at this day, it's beautiful." He says, "I really want to spend the day with you and the girls." Just as that first plane hit the towers, he dropped to his knees and he said, "Thank God. I was supposed to be up in the second building today."

So, we changed our lives. We found our place in the mountains in West Virginia. My eldest child was born on Christmas Day, so that was always very special until Christmas Day two years ago, my husband died on our kitchen floor. My youngest child and I worked for about an hour doing CPR, but living so remotely as where we live, there was eight inches of snow on the ground. The emergency vehicles could not get to us. We lost him that day.

Ten days after my husband died, the gray water system was pouring out underneath the house. I called the plumber up and I asked him if he remembered my husband, and he says, "Oh, I do remember speaking with him." I said, "Well, he passed away on Christmas Day," and he says, "I'll be over tonight." The whole underneath the house was replaced. "So how much do I owe you for today?" He says, "Let me think. Nothing." And I just hugged him and he says, "How would you like to come to church on Saturday?" And I said, "Saturday?" We ended up going to church on Saturday and his wife gave us the Amazing Facts Bible studies. And we couldn't get enough of it.

When the girls and I heard the story of Doug Batchelor and the richest caveman, his story inspired all of us that, you know, you can walk with God and talk with God and have a personal relationship with Him. The girls and I had decided that we're all going to get baptized together. That was a beautiful moment that I wish their dad was there because I think he would be really proud that they chose to give their hearts to Jesus that day. I want to say thank you to Pastor Doug for all the facts that he shares and his knowledge. It has helped all of us grow closer to God.

Announcer: Did you know Amazing Facts has a free Bible school that you can do from the comfort of your own home? It includes 27 beautifully illustrated study lessons to aid in your study of God's Word. Sign up today for this free Bible study course by calling 1-844-215-7000. That's 1-844-215-7000.

Announcer: You're listening to "Bible Answers Live" where every question answered provides a clearer picture of God and His plan to save you. So, what are you waiting for? Get practical answers about the good book for a better life today. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible-related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. Pacific time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now let's rejoin our hosts for more "Bible Answers Live."

Doug: Welcome back listening friends. This is "Bible Answers Live." For those who have tuned in along the way, it's a live international interactive Bible study. I think we still have some lines open. If you'd like to call in with your Bible question, that's 800-GODSAYS or 800-463-7297. We want to get in as many Bible questions as we can. I'm Doug Batchelor.

Jëan: My name is Jëan Ross and we have Sharon listening in Idaho. Sharon, welcome to Bible Answers Live. You're on the air.

Sharon: Thank you. My question is, when Jesus resurrected Lazarus, Jairus's daughter, and others, were they alive a while and had to die again, or did they go up to heaven when He went up?

Doug: Yeah, good question. Well Lazarus, Dorcas, Jairus's daughter was only 12 years old. Jesus ascended to heaven before they died. I'm sure that they ended up living normal lives. Some may have died, you know, prematurely from illness or persecution. The Bible doesn't say. I don't remember if there's anything in church history about what happened to Lazarus as far as whether he was persecuted or not, but it seems from everything we read in the Bible that they went on to live full lives and then they died like everyone else does. So, they were raised and given normal bodies that needed to continue living and growing old and ultimately dying.

Jëan: That's right. So, they were not resurrected with an immortal body as Jesus was when He came from the tomb. We do have some examples of people that were resurrected and taken to heaven while you've got Moses, according to the book of Jude, that was resurrected. He was resurrected with an immortal body. He was taken to heaven. And then the Bible speaks of a group of people that were resurrected at the time of Christ's resurrection. And not much is said about them, but it does speak about a group going to heaven. And they serve as the first fruits of those who are resurrected. But all of them were resurrected with immortal bodies, whereas the rest of the resurrections, both in the time of Christ and in the Old Testament, they were not immortal resurrections. People were resurrected, they lived, and then they died—

Doug: Maybe like a healing.

Jëan: Yeah, there you go. It's not the second death though that you read about in the book of Revelation. The second death has reference to the wicked and that final destruction that takes place. There are just a few exceptions, those who are resurrected at this time.

Doug: Yeah, now it'd be terrible if someone that Jesus resurrected then died lost because they'd died three times.

Jëan: That's right. They could. Theoretically, yeah.

Doug: Let's hope they're all safe.

Jëan: That's right. All right, Maurice in Utah, Maurice, welcome to the program.

Maurice: Hello, Pastor Jëan, Pastor Doug. Question for you. I always was taught that in the Bible references, you know, fleeing to the mountains in the end-times. But if you could explain in Revelation chapter 16, verse 20, that, "Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found." So, should we be going to the mountains or where should we be going?

Doug: Yeah, good question. If, it says in Matthew 24 and Luke, "Those that be in Judea flee into the mountains." During the small time of trouble, God's people are going to be living in isolated places when there's persecution. But when it talks about the islands and the mountains being swallowed up, that's after probation closes, and I think that actually happens after the saints are being caught up to meet the Lord in the air. That behind, there's going to be just total devastation. You can read about that in Jeremiah chapter 4. It says, "The cities were broken down by the presence of the Lord and by His fierce anger." And so, that's when the islands disappear and the great earthquake. I forget what verse revelation talks about an earthquake such as there never has been.

Jëan: That's all under the seventh plague, which is connected right with the second coming of Christ, as you mentioned Pastor Doug. So, you don't have to worry. You're not going to have to flee to some island or some mountain, and suddenly you have it disappear and then you still have to find a different place to live. No, when the islands are disappear and the mountains collapse, well that means you've been transported to heaven if you're saved.

Doug: At that point.

Jëan: All right, thank you, Maurice. We've got Joshua in New Jersey. Joshua, welcome to the program.

Joshua: Thanks, pastors, God bless you.

Doug: Thank you.

Joshua: Here's my question. So, the Bible calls us to be sober, right? Throughout the entire New Testament. But in 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul says, "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." And so, is Paul referring to new wine or fermented wine?

Doug: Well I'm guessing that he's talking about new wine, which grape juice actually has antiseptic properties. A lot of the water in ancient times, they, you know, they often shared the streets with the animals and animals--sometimes the wells became contaminated. They had a lot of dysentery problems, but the juice that came from the grape, you could trust it and it actually would kill some germs and bacteria. So, it didn't need to be alcoholic for that. It's hard to imagine Paul recommending, "Don't drink water, but drink booze." So, I think he's saying drink grape juice. Now, keep in mind in Bible times, grape juice, you know, they squeeze it out during the harvest. Sometimes they would condense it for transportation to make it lighter, then they'd add water later to reconstitute it. But they didn't have little labels on the wine skins that said this is 1% alcohol, 2% alcohol. So, you know, as time went by, sometimes it would become old wine, and it would expand, and that's why Jesus said, "You don't put new wine in old wine skins" because they'll quickly expand from fermentation and burst. It wasn't a precise science in Bible times, but I'm pretty sure Paul is recommending a new wine. And I got a book on Christian and alcohol. I think talks about that.

Jëan: We do, yes, and we'll be happy to send that to anyone who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book. It's called "Alcohol and the Christian." You can dial #250 on your smartphone, and you can ask for it that way as well. Take advantage of it. It's free. Next caller that we have is Dr. Latif in Michigan. Dr. Latif, are you there?

Dr. Latif: Yes. Good evening, pastor. Thank you for taking my call. My question is, at what age or stage did the Lord Jesus recognize who He was and what was His mission and what was facing Him? Is it age 12 or age 30 or later on? Thank you for taking my call.

Doug: Great question. At what point, you know, Jesus as a baby, clearly did not toddle around and say, "I'm the son of God, and I've come to die for the sins of the world." But as His mind developed as in, you know, He was a human. As his mind developed and His divine mission became clear, I'm sure He was spirit-filled as John the Baptist was. It seems that we don't know this for sure, but the closest we can come is when He was 12 and He went to the temple, and He was asking questions and answering, and the leaders and the religious teachers marveled at His answers. You can't help but wonder, was Gamaliel in the group that day, because later He was much older when the disciples were being tried and they heard this answer--these answers. And when His parents came and said, "Why did You leave us? We didn't know where You were." He said, "Wist ye not I must be about My Father's business."

I think when Jesus went to the Passover at 12, today when a Jewish boy is 13, they're bar mitzvahed. In Christ's time, it was 12 years old. And so, He went, and I think it became clear to Him that, through the Holy Spirit, He saw the sacrificial system and the light dawned on His mind that that was His special mission that He had been called. It doesn't say that explicitly, but I think from the context, He was 12 when it began to dawn on Him.

Jëan: And definitely when He began his public ministry at the age of 30, He was baptized and He went to the wilderness. It was very evident cause immediately after that, the first miracle we have recorded is where Jesus turned the water into wine at the wedding. And at that point, His mother said to Him, you know, "The wine has failed." And Jesus said, "My hour has not yet come." He did help, you know, He did the miracle, but He was very aware of the timing. So, the whole mission was laid out at that point.

Doug: Yeah, good point.

Jëan: All right, thank you, Dr. Latif. Now we got David in California. David, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

David: Thank you. Thanks for putting on the program too. I really appreciate it.

Doug: Thank you.

David: Question is--I was writing--I'm writing up a Bible study for the Three Angels message, so I was studying up on it. My question is on Revelation 14:9. Now, in King James, it says, "His mark in his forehead or in his hand," but on my New King James and I looked at five other versions, they all have on forehead or on your hand. So, how do I explain that to somebody or which one do I use because to me in and on are completely different?

Doug: Yeah, well I'll say something. Pastor Ross probably has a lot more he can add, but to understand Revelation, you need to go back in the Bible. And most of the keys for understanding these things are found in the Old Testament. Moses, when he gave his great sermon at the end of his life in Deuteronomy, and he gives the Great Shema, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one. Thou shalt love the Lord with all your heart." He had just finished quoting the 10 Commandments in chapter 5. In chapter 6, he says, "These words that I command you shall be in your heart," and he says, in there. And he said, "You shall write them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be frontlets between your eyes."

All three are figures. One place that says, you know, between your eyes, on your hand, in your heart. I don't think the emphasis is, you know, was it on, was it in? I think the emphasis is that it's talking about the law of God as a symbol in the heart, in the actions, that's in the hand, in the mind. Some people have tried to make it out that the mark of the beast is like a tattoo. I think one paraphrase, it might be the Good News Bible, and that's a terrible misreading of what it actually says. It's not a tattoo on the hand. And that's confused a lot of people. It's basically in the original--I think it's a mark in the hand, meaning it's in your actions, it's in your thoughts.

Jëan: And the word that's used there for the word mark in the original Greek is "charakter." And we get the English word character from the Greek "charakter." But it has the idea of a seal. So, you know, back in Bible times, they'd carve out a seal out of stone or out of wood, and they'd put wax and then impress that seal on that wax. So, in one sense, it was in the wax, but it was also on the wax. So, to have the mark of the beast, it's not just on the forehead, but it's in the forehead, you might say. It has to do with character, it has to do with will, it has to do with choice. And of course, it's symbolic. There's not only the mark of the beast, but there's also the seal of God. And seal and mark are used interchangeably. You'll find in the Old Testament that God's people are marked in the forehead. So, you can go back and forth. So, yes, it has to do with the mind.

Doug: Now try and remember it in the New King James version, does it say the seal of God is in?

Jëan: I believe it says on in the New King James.

Doug: All right, so there you have it. It's got everybody going around with a mark on their forehead. That can't be what it's talking about. It's got to be a symbol.

Jëan: It's a symbol, yeah. So, the New King James says on the forehead, the King James says in the forehead, but again, it's the idea of that seal that was impressed upon the mind, upon the heart. All right, thank you, David. We've got Anthony in Michigan. Anthony, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Anthony: Hi, my question was--it's kind of trivial, but in the new Jerusalem, do you think that there will be the activity of horseplay? I'm wondering cause it's like a harmless activity that could turn into a conflict, but at the same time, I would think that we would have the maturity to certainly never let that happen if we were to partake in something like that.

Doug: Yeah, no, it's a good question in heaven. Well, first of all, we're on holy ground when we talk about heaven, because Paul said, "The eye has not seen, the ear has not heard, neither has entered into the heart of man, the things that God has prepared for those that love Him." So, there's a lot--it's going to be bigger, better, more beautiful, just conceptually so different from what we can even imagine. But will there be play? And I'm trying to remember, I think it's Zephaniah and a couple of verses says, "Children will be playing in the streets." And so, there are children. It says that "A child will play on the hole of the venomous serpent." That's in Isaiah maybe verse--chapter chapter 11. "It will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountains." So, it does say in at least two verses that children will be playing in heaven, and that's a happy thing, you know. One of the signs of peace in a kingdom or a neighborhood is when children are out playing with each other. It's just like when you see puppies and calves kicking up their heels in the field. God has made them to run and to play. And so, will it ever turn into conflict or violence? Not in heaven. No, never. It'll be joyful.

Jëan: Yeah, the verses you referred to there, Pastor Doug, you mentioned, Isaiah chapter 11, talks about the children playing, Zechariah 8:5, talks about the children playing in the streets. So, there are different references to that. Yeah. Good question. Thank you, Anthony. Next caller that we have is Robert in Washington. Robert, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Robert: Good evening.

Doug: Good evening. Thanks for calling.

Robert: I was going to ask the question. You've probably heard that there's a church that teaches, believes that we were in heaven before we were born kind of thing. And I'm wanting to know--that they used this verse, and I'm wanting to know what you think about it. John chapter 9, verses 1 and 2, "Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, 'Rabbi, who sinned. This man or his parents that, he was born blind?'"

Doug: Yeah, how could he have sinned to be born blind? And the way that the Jews understood it is that because God is all knowing, God knew this man was going to sin in advance. And so, he punished him in advance. It wasn't saying that he had lived in a prior life. Their idea was not that, you know, he had been reincarnated in some way, but that because God is all knowing, He knew this man was going to turn towards wickedness and so he got punished in advance. That's bad theology, but there was a lot of things that the religious leaders had adopted that were not good theology in the time of Christ and that's why Jesus spent so much time trying to straighten them out.

Jëan: And of course, they also believed that you were alive in your mother's womb. And the question is, well, did he sin from his mother's womb before he was actually born? And that's why they were so puzzled by this. They said, "Lord, how could this be? Did he sin? Did his mother sin? I mean, well, what happened?"

Doug: And keep in mind, Jesus's answer is no. He said, "Neither this man's sin, nor his mother's, but that that God might be glorified." So, yeah, Jesus didn't say, "Yeah, in his prior life, he was really bad, so he's catching it now." If Christ had said something, then we'd have more pause for questioning. But, you know, Jesus brushed that aside.

Jëan: All right, very good. Lenore in Arizona. Lenore, welcome to the program.

Lenore: Thank you. My question is, if Moses, or when Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible, I would like to know in his short life, as we would call it, how would he have enough time to write personal things about certain events and he wrote thousands and thousands and thousands of words. And what did he write on? How could he write all that?

Doug: All right, good. Well keep in mind, Moses lived 120 years. Moses was also educated in one of the most advanced civilizations in the world. He spent 40 years in Egypt before he fled into the wilderness. Certainly, he knew how to read and write, and the Egyptians also had mastered paper. It was called papyrus. And so, with simple ink, they would make ink out of an oil and charcoal. They could make a simple black ink. Moses could have easily written. And the first book that he wrote was probably the book of Job. And the book of Job is telling about, you know, this great battle between good and evil. And then Moses probably wrote the book, well, it says he wrote the book of Genesis. And I'm guessing that Moses was relating what he had received through the Holy Spirit and through oral tradition being passed down. Keep in mind, they had almost photographic memories back then, and they would pass down the holy truth about origins. And Moses recorded them guided by the Spirit to make sure it was all accurate. So, he had plenty of time in the wilderness, 40 years, before he even went to Egypt to lead the children of Israel out. So, he had 40 years in the wilderness with papyrus and whatever you would need to do that writing.

Jëan: And then, of course, from Exodus onwards, that's actually real time. So, Moses could be writing down as the events are happening. He's recording different things. There are some portions that maybe he had a scribe after the fact where it talks about Moses's death and when it talks about—

Doug: Yeah, Joshua may have written that.

Jëan: Joshua or somebody probably finished it off, but without a doubt, the bulk of the writing of those books were by Moses. All right, thank you. Good question. Tricia from Montana. Tricia, welcome to the program.

Tricia: Okay, thanks. I just have always assumed God was--is a man. Jesus tells us to pray, "Our Father, which art in heaven." A church member said that they don't know what gender God is, so I just wanted to clarify.

Doug: Yeah, well if you're going to use the Bible as your guide, the Lord typically refers to Himself in a patriarchal sense, as opposed to a matriarchal sense. So, you know, God is referred to as our Father. They use the word He when referring to the Lord as opposed--doesn't ever refer to God as she. I'm not trying to be misogynistic. I'm just saying this is what the Bible says. And, you know, we can't be changing the words of scripture. Now does the Lord have some of the same love as a woman? Well, yeah. The Bible says that, you know, as a mother loves her children, and can a woman forget her loving or her nursing children? God says, "I will not forget you." And Jesus said, "I would have gathered you under My wings as a hen." That's a female chicken, under her wings.

He--so, you know, there's attributes where God talks about the love of a mother, and He compares it to His love. But for the most part, God seems to identify Himself and man being made in the image of God and woman was after that. I think we're missing something when we try to--first of all, I want to spend a lot of time thinking about God's gender plumbing because I'm sure that it's nothing like what we're imagining or what we deal with on earth, but He does identify Himself in the masculine in the Bible. So, let's accept that and not try and rewrite it based on cultural, social changes right now.

Jëan: All right, thank you. Our next call that we have is Juan in Ohio. Juan, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Juan: Hey, good evening, guys.

Doug: Evening.

Juan: I was watching this new series "House of David" on Amazon Prime. It seems to indicate that he--that his parents are not his real parents and I can't find any verse in the Bible that proves that.

Doug: Yeah. Well, I haven't seen the series you're talking about, but I can be very careful about basing your theology on Hollywood's Creed of license. David, it tells us as plainly as it tells us anything else in the Bible that his father was Jesse. It refers to his father and mother many times and he had seven brothers and one sister. Talks about Joab, Asahel, and, was it Abishai, the sons of Joab, the son of Zeruiah.

Doug: Yeah, that was David's sister, I think.

Jëan: Yeah, ok.

Doug: Zeruiah. So, he's got one sister, brothers. When Samuel comes to anoint him as King, Samuel says, "Do you have any other sons?" He said, "I got one more, the youngest, he's sort of a daydreamer," and they bring him in, and everything makes it very clear that they were his real parents. You even find it in the book of Ruth that David is the great grandson of Ruth and Boaz. So, if they're making this stuff up in Hollywood trying to make the story more interesting, first of all, I don't think it does make it more interesting, but oh, I've said enough.

Jëan: And then also in the genealogy that you read in the New Testament, it traces all the way to Matthew.

Doug: Chapter 1 of Matthew.

Jëan: Yep, all the way back to David and Jesse and so on. Yeah, pretty clear. All right, thank you. Chloe, age eight, listening in Ohio. Chloe, welcome to the program.

Chloe: Hi, thank you.

Doug: Hi, thanks for calling.

Chloe: When we get to heaven, will we wear crowns?

Doug: The Bible does tell us that we will have crowns in heaven. And it tells us in Revelation that there--they'll be given crowns. And some people will have stars in their crowns. I think it tells us that in Daniel chapter 12. They will--those who turn others to righteousness will be like the stars forever and ever. And you've got that verse here, Pastor Ross, where he talks about the crowns in Revelation?

Jëan: Yeah, well Paul says in 2 Timothy chapter 4, verse 8, that, "There is a crown of righteousness laid up not only for him, but for all of those at the second coming of Christ." James speaks about a crown, "Blessed are those who face temptation," or endure a temptation, "they'll receive a crown of life." 1 Peter talks about a crown. So, there's a lot of--I'm just looking at—

Doug: In Revelation, doesn't Jesus say, "Don't let anyone take your crown?"

Jëan: Yeah, that's right. Jesus says to the church of, which one is it? I forget. One of the churches, "Don't let anyone take your crown." I think it's Sardis.

Doug: There's lots of crowns that it's pretty clear. Now you don't have to wear your crown all the time, but, you know, you may want to go climb a tree and play with your friends and not have your crown on. You may want to take it and cast it at Jesus's feet when you see Him. But yeah, crowns are going to be real in heaven. Yeah, let me see if we can get another question in here, pastor.

Jëan: Oh we got Ruben in New Jersey. Ruben, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Ruben: Good evening, pastors. My question is, why did some of the--some of God's people in the Old Testament have more than one wife, like Solomon? And I know that Solomon heard the book of Genesis where it says that Adam and Eve became one flesh. The question is why did God didn't tell them that it was wrong?

Doug: Well, I think God did tell them in the writings of Moses, and I forget the verse Pastor Ross when it says, "These are the rules about a king, he will not multiply horses from Egypt, and he will not multiply wives." So, Solomon did everything wrong he could do, but, you know, not just Solomon is always the example people look at because he had like hundreds. One reason that kings did that, it was a custom, and Solomon was following the custom of the times that a king wanting to make sure that his monarchy lasted. He would have lots of sons, and they would have different appointments in the kingdom and different office, and you could guarantee that your name would be carried on. David, I think, had like ten concubines and five wives. And Jacob, of course, he only wanted one wife, he only wanted Rachel, but he ended up with three extra ones.

Jëan: Of course Deuteronomy 17:17 is the counsel that was given to kings not to multiply unto themselves wives because it'll turn their hearts away from God. Well, that's what happened. Doug: That's what happened with Solomon. And Jesus said, "No man can serve two masters." So, it's pretty clear that a man should only have one wife. So, this was, you know, clearly God's plan. In Bible times, a lot of men went to war and there was a lot of mortality and often after years of war, you might have seven women for each man. That's why you've got that verse in Isaiah that said, "In that day seven women," that's Isaiah chapter 4, verse 1, I believe. "Seven women will lay hold of one man, saying, 'We will eat our own bread, we will wear our own apparel; Only let us be called by your name, to take away our reproach.'" So many men had been killed off by the wars that men often would take many wives to help make sure that they had offspring, take care of them in old age. It was their social security.

Jëan: Well Pastor Doug, we're going to take some of our email questions the folks have sent to us here. And if you'd like to send us an email question, just simply email balquestions@amazingfacts.org. All right, Pastor Doug, first question that we have, when Mary received the Holy Spirit and Jesus was born to her, obviously, Christ is a divine being, did that somehow make Mary divine?

Doug: No. And, you know, God had His presence in the middle of Israel. They didn't all become divine. When we get the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as long as we walk with the Lord, God's in us, but we don't become gods. And so, when Mary was chosen to be a vehicle for bringing God's Son into the world, Jesus was also fully human, so that part of Him wasn't Mary. He was born like other children are born. So, it didn't turn her into a god. Nowhere does the Bible say we should worship her, anywhere.

Jëan: Another question that we have, the Bible tells us that we need to pray for others, but it also says that we have freedom of choice. So, what difference do our prayers make?

Doug: Yeah. Well, it is true that people have freedom of choice, but by our intercession for others, I believe it frees the Holy Spirit and God to work in their lives through others, through providence in ways that would not happen if we did not pray. So, by all means, friends, intercede for the ones that you love because God will work in their lives. Jesus prayed for us, we should pray for others as well. God bless. We'll study together next week.

Announcer: Thank you for listening to today's broadcast. We hope you understand your Bible even better than before. "Bible Answers Live" is produced by "Amazing Facts International," a faith-based ministry located in Granite Bay, California.