Pastor Carlos: All right, Maranatha. Amen, and I don't know of a better way to start off a week than with a Q&A panel with all of our speakers. Amen?
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: So, praise the Lord for that. We have received a lot of questions from all different parts of the world, and so we are going to chug at it, and hopefully, we'll be able to answer all the questions that have been sent. Some of them were given here, most of them were on social media, some were emailed also. Before we begin, let's have a word of prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you again for just this great privilege and this honor. Like the Psalmist says 1 day in your house is better than 1,000 days out of it. What a blessing it is to be back to fellowship back in the old days, and I think that you let this happen, Father, so that we can have this yearning desire to spend time together. Now as we're going to answer some Bible questions from the people that have been listening and watching, we just ask, Father, that your spirit guide us, that may direct us, and so that every answer may be according to your word. We thank you, Father, for this blessing and this opportunity, and we ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: All right, so there are some questions that have specifically for 1 of the speakers. If not, I'm just going to answer, ask, throw out a question, and they will then choose to answer like good boys. Don't fight over the questions. All right, so the first question is for Pastor Bohr because it has to do with what you talked about last night. It says, "Why is the scapegoat mentioned in the text like Leviticus 16:10 referred to Satan? Isn't that Jesus as our savior who bears our sins? Can you help me understand?"
Pastor Bohr: Okay, there are several reasons why the scapegoat is a symbol of Satan because in Leviticus Chapter 16, it says that the first goat was for the Lord. The second goat was for Azazel. If both were for the Lord, why would it say 1 is for the Lord and the other is for Azazel? We know from the Book of Enoch, which is not an inspired book, but it was written in the Intertestamental Period, the name Azazel appears, and it's the Prince of Demons that is referred to. From Jewish tradition as well as from a careful reading of Leviticus Chapter 16, we find very clearly that it's a symbol of an evil power. We don't find anywhere of Jesus going out into the wilderness non-inhabited land like it's described there. There are other reasons. The blood of the scapegoat was not shed, and that's an important point because the Bible says, "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin," in Hebrews 9:22. For those reasons, we know that Azazel is not another function of Christ, but it refers to Satan. By the way, the world of scholarship today is gravitating strongly towards the idea that Azazel represents Satan.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. All right. Who says Amen?
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: Next question is for Pastor Jëan Ross. Revelation 21, Pastor, how can Jesus marry a city? What is the bride?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay, great question. All right, first of all, Revelation Chapter 20, you get to the last few chapters that talks about John in vision, 1 of the angels come to him and say, "Let me show you the bride, the lamb's wife." We would think, "All right, he's going to show him a picture of the church." But what John is shown in vision is the New Jerusalem. Some have wondered why is the New Jerusalem the lamb's bride when we know Jesus is described as the bridegroom and the church as the bride. We also need to recognize that Jerusalem is a symbol of God's people. Somebody once said, "The Old Testament can be described as a contest between 2 cities or 2 kingdoms." You have Babylon, which represents those opposed to God, opposed to his people. You have Jerusalem that represents God's people, or the chosen ones.
Adam, who was given dominion over the earth, lost that dominion when he succumbed to the temptation. The devil claimed to be the Prince of this world and Jesus even references that when he says, "The Prince of this world comes to me and he finds nothing within me." But Jesus is the second Adam, and through Christ's sacrifice, he has redeemed the earth. He becomes the second Adam. When it talks about the bride of Christ, it's talking about the world renewed, made up, populated by the redeemed. Of course, Christ isn't interested in marrying a city, even if it is made of gold, but he's interested in individuals. His heart's desire is to see people in his kingdom. So, Jerusalem then becomes a symbol of the world recreated. It's a symbol of the redeemed, it's a symbol of the fulfillment of the kingdom that was promised to Christ.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Next question is for Pastor Doug. I don't know why. What did Paul mean when he said that Israel was baptized in the Red Sea?
Pastor Doug: Yeah, in 1 Corinthians Chapter 10, Paul is making an example of the children of Israel and the salvation experience, and he makes a number of analogies. He talks about how when the children of Israel crossed the Red Sea. Well, as they were escaping the slavery of the Pharaoh, as when we escape the slavery of the devil, there's baptism is a transition point. They were not only baptized in the sea, they were baptized in the cloud. Of course, Jesus said, "Unless we are born of the water and the Spirit, we can't enter the kingdom of heaven." The sanctuary is a great context for teaching that, and I don't think anyone's touched on this yet, but going through the sanctuary is really tracing the experience of the children of Israel.
You've got the courtyard, they were justified by the lamb in Egypt, sanctified in the Holy Place. You got that bread that came down from heaven and the light, and then glorification is when you reach the Promised Land in the presence of God. So, the whole Exodus experience is pictured in the sanctuary, and I think Paul's alluding to the Exodus experience connected with salvation there.
Pastor Carlos: Excellent. Amen. Thank you very much. Next question for Pastor James Rafferty. Pastor, are there other identifying characteristics of the remnant? You spoke of a few.
Pastor James Rafferty: Yes, actually, there are 7 different places in Revelation that describe God's Last Day people. We are very familiar with Revelation 12:17, "Those that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus." Revelation 14:12, "Those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus." We talked about Revelation 12:1, "The woman was clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars." That's a characteristic of God's church because the remnant of the woman, the seed of the woman. Then there's Revelation 13:8-10, "Here's the patience of the saints. He that leads into captivity must go into captivity. He who that kills with a sword must be killed with a sword." Then those who are written in the Lamb's Book of life. So you've got a characteristic there of people who, in a sense, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, are perfect like their father in heaven is perfect or merciful like he is.
Revelation 14:1-5, the characteristic there are the 144,000 who stand on Mount Zion. They follow the lamb wherever he goes, and not defiled with women. They have no God in their mouths, they're faultless before the throne of God. Then you have Revelation Chapter 15:2-4, they stand on the sea of glass. They sing the song of Moses and the Lamb, which is a reflection of the Third Angel's message. They fear God, they give glory to him. So, Revelation 12:1 is the first one, Revelation 12:17 is the second one, Revelation 14:12 is the third one, Revelation 13:8-10 is the fourth one, Revelation 14:1-5 is the fifth one, Revelation 14:12, did I say that already? And then there's Revelation 12:11, probably one of the most beautiful characteristics of God's remnant or God's church. Revelation 12:11, they overcame him by the blood of the lamb, by the word of their testimony. 11, "Not their lives even unto death." So let me just go 12:1, 12:11, 12:17, 13:8-10, 14:1-5, 14:12, and 15. There's 7 characteristics of God's church in Revelation.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: Praise the Lord. Pastor Mackintosh. Pastor, when did Jesus Christ go into the most Holy Place? They're quoting Hebrews 9:12.
Pastor Don Mackintosh: Well, that's an interesting question because it assumes that Christ has to wait to go somewhere in the sanctuary, and he doesn't really have to. Although, he does move through the sanctuary in terms of his ministry. But let me explain that. In Numbers Chapter 7:1, every time they move the sanctuary in the Old Testament, they would inaugurate the sanctuary by anointing every aspect. So when Jesus ascended after he finished his ministry, he inaugurated the whole sanctuary at that time. But in terms of where he is ministering, we have different snapshots.
You have one in Revelation Chapter 1, where Jesus is walking among the lamp stands and John says, "Wow, it's really good to see him. I haven't seen him since he died in 31." But he sees him there, and then he's moving through with his ministry and the hour of his judgment comes, and then he moves into the most Holy Place in terms of his ministry. That'd be my answer. I'm not sure about the Hebrews 9. I haven't thought about that in terms of the context, but that's the answer I think from the New Testament as well as Revelation.
Pastor Carlos: All right, thank you very much. This next question is for Daniel. Pastor Daniel, why did God ask Abraham to sacrifice Isaac if he was against child sacrifice?
Pastor Daniel: This is a very good question, and it's really a long study, but I'll try to give a quick answer. It's a troubling passage for a lot of people. We have to understand here that this is a complex situation where the enemy is involved and Abraham is supposed to be God's man and his descendants are going to be as the stars of the sky and the sand of the seashore. He's a special man, but we know he makes some mistakes along the way. So, I use the 2 Ds, I use distortion and disqualification. What has happened is the enemy has paid attention. Ever since there was the first instance of bloodshed in the Garden of Eden in Genesis Chapter 3, where God provided for Adam and Eve coats of skins. We know that that means that in order for there to be a coat of skins, then an animal would have to die. There'd be bloodshed. That's where we have the powerful prophecy of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This sacrifice represented Christ. The enemy was paying attention to this bloodshed, and he paid attention to all the sacrifices that would follow for years to come. What his mission was, was to distort the sacrificial system. To make God look like a God that demanded blood and that the God of the Old Testament was somewhat of a pagan monster. The enemy had distorted this so much that he had persuaded people through false gods, through false methods of appeasement, that in order to appease these gods, what they would do is sacrifice their child. They would allow their child to go through the fire, using the language of the Old Testament. God was not happy about this. So God, what he did, was because Abraham had made some mistakes and trusted in his flesh, like you preached on just a moment ago, he had disqualified himself from being the one who would be God's man, basically.
Now, the sacrificial system is distorted. You have all these child sacrifices. We have the instance where Abraham finally has Isaac and God tests him and he uses Abraham as an object lesson for all the child sacrifices that were in the land. Their heart might have been broken and their crops might have been failing, and some man may have had to take his child to sacrifice his child, and that would be his last resort. Well, here we have all these illusions too of Jesus in this story. But what happens is, basically, we're told in Genesis 22, it says that, "God will provide himself a lamb." All right, so we see that that is a powerful symbol of Jesus to come. Jesus would be the one who provides sacrifice. That place was known then as Jehovah Jireh, which means God will provide. So, if you were a pagan father who was worried about sacrificing your son, now it would spread. If there was a Twitter feed back in that day, it would be #JehovahJireh, God will provide. You don't have to make these pagan sacrifices. God will provide.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Pastor Daniel: Abraham passed the test, so he requalified himself because of his faith. I'm spinning here a little bit. Thanks, Pastor Ross. Abraham was now requalified because of his faith in the Messiah. Now, Pastor Ross is messing with me. Abraham is requalified because of his faith in the Messiah to come, and all of these pagans and heathens would now be just relieved because God is the one who would provide a sacrifice. And they would be cleared of this and so happy. [crosstalk] So, that's my answer briefly.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Praise the Lord. Good thing it was briefly. Pastor Bohr. This is a comment and a question. I really enjoyed your presentation last night, but then all of a sudden I felt overwhelmed, scared, and afraid that I was not going to make it to heaven because I am nowhere near ready. I am a new member and I have a lot to learn, and then I started to cry because I'm afraid for my family because they are not even in the word or going to church. I trust God and surrender all to him in including my family. But why did I feel so suddenly overwhelmed and afraid?
Pastor Bohr: Well, I can't really answer the question without really talking to the person, but let me just give you an answer based on what I think the person is asking. When we look at our own lives, we see nothing good. We see sin, we see mistakes, we see all kinds of things that we've done that are contrary to the will of God. What we need to do is behold Christ on the cross and in Gethsemane, and realize that Jesus took those sins and Jesus lived the life that we should live. We need to ask the Lord to give us repentance because we can't repent. As human beings, it is not in our nature to repent. That's why the Bible says that God gives repentance. He came to give repentance to Israel. So, we need to behold Christ, how he lived a life without sin, and yet he bore the sins of the world and my own personal sins at the end of his life and claim his righteousness. And then we need to have the assurance that he fulfills this promise to forgive our sins.
One of the big problems is that we are not able to forgive ourselves. When God says that he forgives us, you can take it to the bank because the Bible says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." There's no reason why we should feel this nagging insecurity, "I'm not good enough." Nobody's good enough. That's why we need to keep our eyes on Jesus, not on us. Because if we keep our eyes on ourselves, Satan is going to gain the victory over us. If we keep them on Jesus, then we'll be able to be victorious.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: Question for Pastor Rafferty. The great multitude in Revelation 7:9, are they the same as the 144,000 in verse 4?
Pastor James: That's a good question. Yes.
Pastor Carlos: Final answer?
Pastor Bohr: How wordy.
Pastor Carlos: All right, very good. This next question is for Pastor Don. Is there a reference for October 13th as a Day of Atonement in the fall of Babylon?
Pastor Don: Yeah, when I made that mention when we were talking about Daniel 5, you have the Cyrus cylinder, you have other extra Biblical dating. William Shea, in his book on the book of Daniels, says that the fall of Babylon was either October 13 or October 11. Someone showed me in the break a citation for October 11 or 13:5-39 as the date that Babylon fell. The suggestion was made, I believe by Dr. Shea in his book, that that was very near the Day of Atonement in that year. I'm depending a bit on my memory of reading Dr. Shea's book, so I would point you to that reference. Then also Dr. Leslie Harding, I believe, in his book gives a similar idea.
Pastor Carlos: All right, thank you very much. Next question is for Pastor Jëan. Who is the image of the beast? That's how it was questioned. Who is the image of the beast?
Pastor Jëan: The question is, who is the image of the beast? Okay.
Pastor Carlos: Not what is the image of the beast?
Pastor Jëan: Typically, when we talk about the image of the beast, we're not talking about an individual. Of course, the beast power does represent an organization or an entity. An image of the beast would be Revelation Chapter 13, talks about 2 beast powers. The first rising up from the sea would represent the Papal power. The second rising from the Earth would represent the United States. A time comes when the United States makes an image to the first beast. If you go back into the history of the Papal power, we find the Papacy gaining power in civil affairs or in secular government to the point where the Papacy used civil authority to enforce a particular form of worship. When the United States forms an image to the first beast or the Papacy, you will find a similar thing where religious institutions within the United States looks to the civil authorities to enforce a particular type of worship, which contradicts 1 or more of God's 10 commandments.
We can see the stage being set to that. It hasn't reached its fullness yet, but we can see the handwriting on the wall, so to speak. Certain movements taking place even in the United States, eroding some of our fundamental freedoms. As we see an increase of natural disasters, increase of diseases, and hopefully not, but a new pandemic, who knows, people will feel as though unless Christianity is being pushed or legislated, America will be lost. And this will open up the door to those laws that eventually will come.
Pastor Carlos: Don, you wanted to say something?
Pastor Don: Yeah, it's interesting that really the 10 Commandments themself are under attack, you might say. You can't really break the 10 Commandments, you just get broken. But some people think they can change them, and when you look at them, 5 of the 10 commandments have to do actually with marriage. They understand marriage as being between a man and a woman. So, thou shall not commit adultery, honor thy father and thy mother, visiting the inequities of the fathers upon the children third and fourth generation. Then, of course, the key one is the Sabbath commandment, which says for the reason for the Sabbath, and the Exodus of the version is given as Genesis is where marriage was defined.
When you look at all these movements with various laws or suggested laws, they're directly opposite the 10 Commandments. You might see the contours of this direct attack on God's law, and already the Sabbath commandment is in play in that. That image to the beast, ultimately, is going to be in opposition to God's 10 commandment law, specifically, relating to creation and the Sabbath. But already you can see the contours, and it's actually quite, on one sense, you might say scary, but it's also exciting because you know that God is in control.
Pastor Carlos: All right, so these are open questions, so don't fight. It says here, does God punish us for something we have no knowledge of? Does God punish us for sins of ignorance? That's what they're asking for.
Pastor Doug: One of the definitions for sin is sin is knowing to do good and not doing it. Christ also said, and someone will help me remember the verse, maybe John Chapter 6 where he said, or maybe it's John 9, "If you did not see, you would have no sin. But now that you see, your sin remains." Certain aspects of sin are more grievous. If you know, and you sin against knowledge, if we continue to sin willfully, Hebrews chapter 10:26. "If we continue to sin willfully after we've received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin." That high-handed rebellious sin is different than people who didn't know.
Pastor James: Acts 17 says God winks at our ignorance. In James, I think, was it 4:17 Don? Was that the verse you were telling me to read?
Pastor Don: Yes.
Pastor James: "To him that knows to do good and does it not to him, it is sin." There's a lot of verses there. I think it's important though also to recognize there's sins of omission, and so sometimes we think as long as we are not doing the bad stuff that were are okay. But there are things that God would like us to do and that he would hold us accountable for because we could have done them. I don't think we should just pretend. I had a friend once I was sharing with, and he said, "Is God going to hold me accountable for what you're sharing with me?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "Then I don't want to hear it." I think that's where you're moving into an area where you are ignorant, but you're going to be held accountable for that ignorance because you could have known.
Pastor Carlos: Presumptuous ignorance.
Pastor Daniel: Yeah, one real quick thought on it is there's a common term today, ignorance is bliss. We have to be careful with that because we live in such a technological age now. All of us have phones where you could put 10 Bibles on there. If you don't like reading it, it'll read it to you. We have no excuse. We have to be very careful because there is much at our hands to where we can gain understanding.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Is that why you have 2 Bibles?
Pastor Daniel: I have 2 Bibles, and I have a phone.
Pastor Carlos: Don, you wanted to say something?
Pastor Don: No, I think Pastor Bohr was talking about Daniel 5 in his last talk and how this was high-handed sin using the vessels from the Lord's house. And then acting like he didn't even know who Daniel was when he was actually named after him. Then it says in Verse 22 and 23, "You did not humble yourself though you knew all these things."
Pastor Carlos: It came to mind on Numbers 15:22-30, sins of ignorance. There was a sacrifice, but those sins of rebellion, they had to pay for their own sins, right?
Pastor Bohr: [inaudible] also knew because God had said, "Take the fire from the altar of sacrifice," which is holy fire. I rained it down and they took common fire, some other kind of fire, and they knew exactly what they were doing, but they were under the influence of alcohol. So they couldn't think straight, just like Babylon at the end of time is going to be influenced by the wine, which represents false doctrine. And they will not be able to distinguish between a holy day and a common day.
Pastor Carlos: Here's a question regarding the ministry of Jesus Christ. It says, can any of you shed more light on what it means that other worlds were preserved by Christ's sanctuary Mediation?
Pastor Jëan: Yeah, I'll take a try it. Through Christ atoning sacrifice, not only are we saved, but we got to recognize that we're part of a Great Controversy that is taking place. Remember, Lucifer in heaven, who eventually became the devil, he made certain accusations concerning God, his character, concerning his law, concerning his government. Through the Great Controversy, through Christ, God's character has been vindicated. Not only is that vindication for us, but it's for all intelligent created beings throughout the universe. Now, they can clearly see that the accusations made by the devil are truly false. God is a God of love. He is a God that you can really trust. So through Christ, through his sacrifice, even for the angels, they got to see a demonstration of God's love and his character that throughout all eternity will hold the universe secure.
Pastor Carlos: Yes, Don.
Pastor Don: Yeah, I think you got questions, God's got answers, and he continues to answer the questions. There were questions in heaven that were raised by the devil when he went back and forth in Job chapters 1 and 2. But those questions were answered on the cross. [inaudible] fire be lifted up, will draw all men, it says in some translations, but that's added. I will draw all to me. That's the entire universe. The questions of the angels concerning Christ were answered on the cross. They were representing, of course, other worlds. God takes the long view. He answers over time. The mystery of godliness is manifests, it says in Timothy, "Is seen by angels, believed on by gentiles, and ultimately, this is playing the long game and answering the questions for the entire universe, not just us here.
Pastor James: For verse on this, there's a few verses, but one is in Revelation 12. In Revelation 12, you have the addition to John 12:32, "If I be lifted up, will draw all to me." Revelation 12:10, he says, "I heard a loud voice saying in heaven now has come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his Christ for the accused of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before God day and night." He was cast down from the unfallen universes before he was cast down or has been cast down here in our own hearts. Verse 12 says, "Therefore, rejoice ye heavens and ye that dwell on them, but woe to inhabitants of the earth and of the sea, for the devil has come down unto you having great wrath because he knows he has but a short time." The controversy, as was stated, was not just in this planet, but it was in the unfallen universe. And that point's been made, but I just wanted to give a couple verses that would support that.
Pastor Don: Yeah, ultimately, this crystallizing verse in Philippians where it says that, "At the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth." It's like this summary of every question will be answered, and that really comes into play in Revelation Chapter 20, doesn't it? Where every single question that ever was asked concerning the character of God is answered, but not in a coercive way. In a way that is God is a great gentleman. He gives you what you want. Ultimately, all those sinners are convicted of their ungodly deeds. It says in Jude, and everybody, even they confess that God is right to the glory of the Father. Everybody, no matter who it is, says, "You know what, you're right."
Pastor Bohr: If I can read just 2 verses here. One verse is in 1 Peter 1, and I just want to read verses 10-12, which clearly shows that the angels are looking at what's happening. They're engaged. It says there, "Of this salvation, the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you." In other words, the prophets announced the coming of Christ. "Searching what or what manner of time. The spirit of Christ who was in them that is in the prophets was indicated when he testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them, it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us, they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have breached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things which angels desire to look into."
And then there's 1 other verse that I want to read, which is 1 Corinthians 4:9, where the apostle Paul wrote, "For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last as men condemn to death, for we have been made a spectacle." The Greek word there is theatron, where we get the word theater from. This is a great big production on the screen that's being watched. So it says, "For we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men." Also, you read in the Bible and I don't remember the text exactly, but it says that, "Jesus reconciled all things in heaven and on earth to himself." I think it's in Colossians Chapter 1, if I'm not mistaken. Clearly, the whole universe is involved.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. You want to say something, Daniel? No? All right, next question. Some people have proposed that the 2300 day prophecy and the 1260 day prophecy from Daniel in Revelation point to future literal days for the fulfillment of various events. Is this teaching in harmony with the principles of prophetic interpretation?
Pastor James: It's not, but it's Adventists have time settings in our blood. That's where we started. It's something that really it's just in us. We just want to do that. But the issue with the time prophecies in Daniel 12, the 1260 to 1290 and the 1335 is they have a place. In Great Controversy talks about trying to find new dates for the opening and closing of the prophetic periods, actually, unfit you for the giving of the Third Angel's message, and here's why. Just to give an example, I've seen a number of charts and the most moderate charts do not put dates on the beginning and the close of, let's say, the 538 or the 1335. They just say, "At the Sunday Law, there'll be 1335 literal days until the second coming of Jesus."
So, what they're saying is the prophetic period is literal now, but we're not setting time because we don't know when it's going to be. So, we're not setting in time for Christ to come. The problem with that, however, is there will be a Sunday Law on a certain date, let's just say April 1st because that's April Fool's Day, there'll be a Sunday Law. And then we will know if you are applying that prophetic period again, in literal days, we will know then when the second coming is or when the outpoint of the Holy Spirit is or when the close of probations, whatever else you want to set down there. For the 37 years I've been an Adventist, starting in 1984 going all the way through with Charles Wheeling, with Hauser, with Marion Barry, with just one after another, we've done this.
We've tried to reinterpret these prophetic periods, but they have a place. And the reason why we do it as Adventist, I think, is because we don't understand, at least with the 1335 and the 1290, we don't understand the historic significance. So could I just share the historic significance really quick on those? The 1260 we know because it's 538 to 1798 and it deals with the civil power of the Papacy. But the 1290 and the 1335 that we don't know as well deal with the ecclesiastical power of the Papacy. Daniel 7 is dealing with the civil power, primarily Daniel 8 is dealing with the ecclesiastical power. When the Papacy took away the mediation of Christ and put a counterfeit in its place. You start in 508, which is when the Pope set himself up as judge of all men who would be judged by no man.
You can find that in Bible readings for the home circle. Any 1915 or previous edition has this information in it, and I have it in a book called Time No Longer. When you go from that date, 1290 years, you come to 1798, but it wasn't until the end of the 1335 that at that restoration, that cleansing of the sanctuary took place. Even though the Pope was disposed in 1798, the restoration of the ministry of Christ didn't take place until after the disappointment. That's why you have the 2 time periods in Daniel 12 connected to the taking away of the daily and the setting of an abomination of desolation.
Pastor Jëan: One quick thing, Carlos, to add to that. Thank you, James. Good explanation. I think we need to recognize that when we are dealing with Bible prophecy, and especially, Daniel in Revelation, if we are going to come to truth, there has to be some kind of rules that are absolute. If we're trying to discover truth, the rules can't keep changing all along the way. If the rule is 1 prophetic day is equal to 1 literal year, and we're trying to reach truth, you can't keep changing those rules all the time to fit into something else. So, we need to be consistent in our interpretation.
Pastor Carlos: I'll share with you. You guys, you're more experienced than me. What I've seen is that any prophecy that has a time period does not have a dual fulfillment, and any prophecy with a dual fulfillment does not have a time period. Would that be correct?
Pastor James: Excellent.
Pastor Carlos: Okay, so I'm not that bad.
Man 1: Your chair is not swiveling.
Pastor James: You're in [inaudible].
Pastor Carlos: All right, next question. Why is Jesus called Michael in Daniel 12:1? Is he in the sanctuary as Michael? Doug, you've been quiet lately.
Pastor Doug: I'm learning a lot of things. Yeah, in Daniel Chapter 12, at that time, Michael will stand up the Great Prince, which stands for the children of thy people. And there'll be a time of trouble such as there never was, ever since there was a nation even under the same time. At that time, thy people will be delivered. Everyone who's found written in the book. So, when it talks about Christ in the Old Testament, it typically talks about them and they're called Christophanies. Sometimes he appeared as the angel of the Lord. You know it was Jesus because he tells Joshua, "Take your shoes off your feet. This is holy ground." It's an attitude of worship. Tells us, "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the Archangel." That's the highest messenger. You've also got Daniel Chapter 10 where it talks about Michael, chief of the angels, and it's really telling us about his first role of the messengers of God.
So, Michael's just a name, who is like God, is what the word means. It's a name that's often used. Michael is the one who's involved in the resurrection of Moses in Jude verse 9. It's one of the names that you find in the Old Testament, and I'm comforted. This is not an Adventist doctrine. If you read like in Matthew Henry's commentary, which by the way was in Ellen White's library as well as maybe Adam Clark and the others, they said, "Michael can only be Christ." So, am I answering the question? Because they were asking something specific about in the temple.
Pastor Carlos: The question is he as Michael in the sanctuary because it says he us?
Pastor Doug: Well, I think Jesus, we talk about what's his name in the context of the sanctuary? Look in Revelation how many different names you find Jesus used in the sanctuary, and so that is one of his names, who is as God.
Pastor Carlos: All right, Pastor Bohr.
Pastor Bohr: Yes, Daniel 12:1, is specifically referring to the close of probation. Ellen White begins the chapter on the time of trouble by quoting this verse, "The expression, Michael, shall stand up." That expression, stand up, means that he's going to begin to reign, and the only moment that he can begin to reign is when his kingdom is made up.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Pastor Bohr: What determines who is the subject of his kingdom is the investigative judgment. When the investigative judgment ends, his kingdom is made up because he's already shown who's a member of his kingdom. How do we know that stand up means that? Well, the same word is used in Daniel 11:2-3, it says, "And now I will tell you the truth. Behold 3 more kings will arise in Persia." It's not translated the same, but it's the identical Hebrew word. 3 kings will yet stand up in Persia. What does that mean? 3 kings are yet to rule in Persia. I Daniel 12:1, you have the close of probation. The reason he's called Michael there is because the name Michael means who is like God. Revelation 13:4 says that the whole world is going to be saying, "Who is like the beast?"
Pastor Carlos: Who's like the beast like the beast.
Pastor Bohr: Here you have one whose name means who is like God, and he stands up, he closes the door of probation to protect God's people in the time of trouble. So he spoken of as Michael who is like God, I'm going to protect my people. When you get to the end of verse 1, it says that God's people will be delivered. Everyone who has written in the book, which is a reference to their names retained in the Book of Life during the investigative judgment. The context indicates that he's called Michael because he's rising to be the defender of God's people, who is like God. In the Bible, names are significant. In other words, then you have to take the name in the context in which it appears.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. James.
Pastor James: Yeah, and just building on that, in Malachi 3:16, it talks about those who spoke often one to another and the Lord harken and heard and a book of remembrance was written before him for those who feared the Lord and thought upon his name. Pastor Bohr was saying who is like God. Those who are delivered are those who are like God. Those who have the character of Christ who are sealed into the character of Christ, who perfectly reflect the character of Christ. So that word, part of the reason that word is used there, Michael's used there, is because those are the very people he's delivering. The people who are like God.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Don.
Pastor Don: In Daniel Chapter 10, "At the end no one upholds me, except let it be noted in the scripture of truth. No one upholds me except Michael, your Prince." That's directed towards Daniel who's praying about the 2300 days. That 2300 day prophecy then comes to an end, and you see in the verses just before 12:1, you see this attack against the glorious Holy Mountain. And that is a metaphor for the sanctuary all through the book of Daniel. Back to the direct question, yeah, he's standing up in the sanctuary on behalf of his people. That's Michael, that's Jesus. He, first of all, stands up or tells Daniel he'll stand up for him, but then he is standing up for everybody because he's the prince of the covenant and he was broken for them. He has all the kudos and he's able to stand up for them.
Pastor Doug: And Michael never loses a battle.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Question is, during the daily, the blood was sprinkled towards the veil. On the Day of Atonement, the sanctuary was cleansed. How was the veil cleansed from the blood that was on the veil during[?]...? Yes, very good question.
Pastor Doug: Well, in the daily service, you're talking about when they're in the Holy Place and they're sprinkling blood towards the veil that's still on the side of the Holy Place.
Pastor Carlos: Of the Holy Place.
Pastor Doug: Yeah, I think the Levites did practical ministry in that place, and Don or one of the other panelists was talking about how when they disassembled the sanctuary and they moved it. In reality, they had to take the veil down. I would think that sometimes they say, "Well, we need to clean it." They also put blood on the horns of the altar. You think, "Well, at some point they need to wipe that off." So, I think they went through some practical cleaning every now and then. I hope so.
Pastor Carlos: All right, I've heard 2 main Jewish scholars, one said it was supernatural, the other said that the veil was changed. All right, next question. Are there 2 separate closes of probation? One for the believers, one for the non-believers?
Pastor James: No.
Pastor Carlos: Final answer?
Pastor James: So 1 Peter 4:17 is the verse that's usually quoted, "Judgment must begin at the house of God." If it first begins with us, what will be the end of those who obey, not the gospel? If you go to the Great Controversy, Ellen White quotes that verse. And I've done an extensive study on this because Jehovah Witnesses brought this idea in that there was 2 closes of probation, so that they could say, When probation closes for the church, then Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled and God's church people will be killed and slaughtered and etc., and then probation will close for the world later on." But, generally speaking, we understand that there's one general close of probation. Everyone who professes faith in Christ, everyone, whether Adventist or in Babylon or wherever they are, is going to be involved in that one close of probation.
Now, will probation close for individuals who have had great light, but have turned away from that light? Yes, we're told that in a couple places in Spirit of Prophecy, she says, "God's destructive judgments is a time for mercy for those who haven't known the truth. For those who knew the truth and turned away from it, their probation's closed. The door of mercy's closed, but it's still open for those who've never known the truth." But when you think about God's people, God's church, who stay in the church, stay faithful to the end. The tears are out, but they stay faithful. Their probation doesn't actually close until after they give the loud cry, and they are what it says they're tested. The mark of the beast is a test the people of God must have before they're sealed.
In that loud cry time, when company after company goes out of the church, tribe after tribe comes into the church and people learn in weeks and months what it's taken others a lifetime to learn. Ellen White says, "Every place that's made vacant by apostasy will be filled by those coming into the church. Together we move forward, hailing this message under the loud cry, the power of the latter rain. "At the end of that, we're sealed," Ellen White says, "We're sealed just before we enter the time of trouble." I think there's just the one general close of probation. I think there are individuals who can close their probation by turning away from the Lord.
Pastor Carlos: Pastor.
Pastor Bohr: Yeah, I just wanted to mention that the reason why people come up with the idea that there are 2 closes of probation is based on 1 Peter 4:17 that you mentioned, "That judgment begins at the House of God." Basically, their idea is that the House of God is the Seventh Adventist Church. But the House of God is not only the Seventh-day Adventist Church, it is composed of all of those who belong to the Christian Church. And the evidence of that is in 1 Timothy 3:15, where the same expression, House of God, is used and it's applied to the church in general. It says there, "But if I am delayed," Paul is writing to Timothy, "I write so that you may know how you might ought to conduct yourself in the House of God, which is the Church of the Living God, the pillar and ground of truth." The House of God is not only the Seventh Adventist Church, the House of God includes everyone, and Ellen White corroborates this point, it includes everyone who has ever claimed the name of Jesus Christ, no matter what denomination they belong to.
Pastor Daniel: Amen. And, keep in mind on a very practical level, the moment you die, your probation has closed. So don't be looking at the signs and say, "Okay, I'm going to get it right with God. I've got a little more time. Sunday Law's not here yet," because you could die in a car wreck tonight or tomorrow. As Paul says, "As it is appointed unto men wants to die, but after this, the judgment."
Pastor Carlos: There are a lot of people, especially during this last year of the pandemic, they've gone through tough situations, lost job, employments, businesses. So, I would just want to ask each one of you to give. What is your favorite Bible verse when it has to do in regards to going through painful situations, difficulties? What Bible verse would you share with somebody that's probably watching right now, is probably here, they're struggling, they're holding on with a thin thread to their spiritual life through the challenges that they've been going through. If each one of you can share 1 Bible verse that you would like to? Go ahead.
Pastor Jëan: I'll go first, Carlos, because somebody else might take my verse, so here it is. What do you do when you go through trials? Looking unto Jesus, the author and the finisher of the faith, of our faith. So, look to Jesus. The more we look away from self, the more courage and hope we will have. The just shall live by faith.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Pastor Don: The most searched verse on the YouVersion of the Bible, which was searched more than a million times this last year than the year before was on this. Was Isaiah 41:10, "Fear not for I am with you. Be not dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you. I will help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand."
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Pastor Bohr.
Pastor Bohr: No one in this world, even during the pandemic, has suffered as much as Jesus did. I want to read, this is not my favorite verse in the Bible, by the way, but taking into account the people that we're trying to encourage. I would read 1 Peter 4:12-13. By the way, my favorite verse of the Bible is Romans 8:31, "If God before us, who can be against us." But here it says, "Beloved, do not think it's strange concerning the fiery trial, which is to try you as though some strange thing happened to you. But rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings. That when his glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy." So beyond the cross, there's the crown. Beyond the suffering, there's no longer any suffering. So, we need to realize that this world is not our home, we're just passing through. We're pilgrims, we're camping out. But a real joyful life is in the future, and we need to hang in there meanwhile.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. James, I see you already.
Pastor James: This is a verse that's really been a blessing to me this last year. But I have to say, it may not resonate with everyone, but it really resonates with me. It's a Day of Atonement verse, so it fits with the sanctuary. It's found in 1 Peter Chapter five, and it's a couple verses. It begins with verse 6. It says, "Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God that He may exalt you in due time, casting all your care upon him, for he cares for you."
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Pastor James: That's just, to me, is the bottom line is if you've got anxiety and you've got worry and you've got stress and you've got all these cares, give them to Christ, cast them upon him. One of the ways we do that, that is misunderstood is what Job did. He had an issue with what was going on in his life and he was very straight with God about it. David does the same thing in Psalms. Sometimes we think, "How can we talk to God about these things?" Talk to him about it. "Be angry and sin not, don't let the sun go down in your wrath." If you're angry about what's happening in this world, what's happening in this country, what's happening in your life, things that are happening, talk to God. Cast your cares on him. He cares for you.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Pastor Daniel: I have another sanctuary verse also. It says in Hebrews Chapter 4, beginning in verse 14, "Seeing then that we have a great high priest that is passed into the heavens, Jesus, the son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Verse 15, "For we have not in high priest, which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was an all points tempted like as we are yet without sin." And verse 16, "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: Amen.
Pastor Don: No, I would just say this.
Pastor Carlos: You have a second verse, Don?
Pastor Don: This last year, my mother died of COVID-19, and I took her to the hospital and I never got to see her again. As I was taking her to the hospital, she said, "Is anybody going to be with me?" She didn't know she had COVID-19, and neither did I at the time. I said, "I'll be with you. I'll come in and visit you." They wouldn't let me in. I said, "I'll sign anything. I'll come in, I'll do whatever it takes to come in." I struggled so much. But then I realized this verse, "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me." I sent all these pictures up, they put them all over the room, and then a Seventh-day Adventist nurse was able to take all the text messages and read them in my mother's ear before she died. That comfort of knowing that the body of Christ reached out when I couldn't, was a great blessing.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Thank you very much Pastor. Doug.
Pastor Doug: I can't improve on that. Time's up. When you ask me my favorite verse, I'll be honest, my mind's racing up here because I have so many of them. But Joshua 1:1-7, I won't read it all, but Joshua was getting ready to enter the promised land sounds nice, but he was surrounded by enemies. Everybody there wanted to destroy them. God said, "Do not be afraid. I am with you. I am with you. Be courageous." The last, I'll read verse 7, "Only be strong, be very courageous that you might observe to do all which Moses, my servant, commanded you. Do not turn from it to the right hand or the left, that you may prosper wherever you go." I feel like what we've seen this last year, we're on the borders of the Promised land, and God is telling us, "Stay focused on me. Don't go to the right hand or left, I'll be with you. I will bless you and you'll be victorious. Be courageous." That's been encouraging to me.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Who's been blessed tonight with his Q&A?
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: Amen. Praise the Lord. We want to thank all of you. All the glory to God. Amen?
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Carlos: We're sorry for the questions that we were not able to answer, but there is good news. There's gospel news in regards to this. Amazing Sanctuary, what we've been recording this weekend, is part of the AFCOE online curriculum. We actually have this, it's actually hot, it just came out of the oven. It's our new amazing Sanctuary 13-week study guide, Lessons on the Sanctuary. All of the topics have been lined up with one of the lessons that are here, and so keep your eyes open. The book is actually going to be out in the foyer. You'll be able to purchase it today or tomorrow also. Then in June, we're planning on launching the online course, and so there you can join us. Me and Daniel do weekly lives, and then we also have Pastor Doug and Pastor Jëan once a month, and answer questions for the students also. So, pay attention to that as that is coming out.
Man 2: Dr. Carlos, what's your favorite verse?
Pastor Carlos: Well, most of them were said, but I would just add, I think, Matthew Chapter six, "Do not worry about what you're going to eat, what you're going to drink, and what you're going to wear." I find it amazing that those are the 3 most basic necessities of human life, and Jesus says, "The non-believers, the pagans, they believe in those things. I want you to search first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness and everything else shall be given to you." It's like I think, probably what Jëan said, keep your eyes on Jesus. Make him the priority. Every day in the morning, search for him first. Spend that quality time and hold onto those promises and live the New Covenant experience. Amen?
Congregation: Amen.
Pastor Don: Father in heaven, we're just touched by the fact that you want to dwell among us and you take your precautions. You put up your boundaries and your quarantines, but not because you don't want us to pass those boundaries and quarantines, you want to prepare us to get closer and closer to you. We don't want to resist anymore, and we ask that every heart that's been touched by this series would hear Christ knocking on their heart's door and would open whatever door he's knocking on. Might be the front door, it might be another door in their heart, but may we each open all of our lives to you as you've given us all of who you are, as we've seen in the sanctuary. In Christ's name we pray, amen.
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