In Holiness Is Happiness

In Holiness Is Happiness

Date: 02/24/2019 
Is God love ? We see throughout the Old Testament His orders to annihilate entire societies, women and children and elderly. We see in today's world immense immorality and injustice and pain. How are we to understand this paradox and not abandon our faith ? As you listen to this episode of Bible Answers Live, you'll understand why and how God IS love and that we must daily choose Christ, choosing the uphill battle to seek after purity and holiness.
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Pastor Doug Batchelor: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live. Would you like to hear an amazing fact? A bride in India dumped her fiance at the altar when she discovered he had a medical condition, and then married an unknown wedding guest just moments later. Referred to only as Indira, the resident of Rampur was about to tie the knot with Jugal Kishore 25, during a traditional Indian varmala, which is a wedding ceremony when her groom was suddenly overcome by an epileptic fit, according to The Times of India. Jugal Kishore fell to the ground having a seizure in front of the guests.

This sent Indira into a fit of rage when she learned that the families had hidden his medical problem. Now, Indian weddings are extremely important and costly occasions. The idea that people would travel to a wedding, bringing their gifts and then have the ceremony canceled, well, it's unthinkable. In sense that she had been kept in the dark, she announced she'd have no problem getting married that day, just not to Jugal Kishore. Indira then scanned the crowd and probably pointed to a man named Harpal Singh declaring she would wed him on the spot.

Blindsided by the announcement, with all the guests watching him Singh, who was wearing a jeans and a leather jacket at the time, stood up and told everyone in attendance he would willingly take Indira to be his wife. At this point, the ceremony resumed with a new groom stepping in, and they were ushered away. Unknown to Indira, her new husband was actually her sister's brother in law.

Meanwhile, the original groom, who'd been rushed to the doctor by his friends, was now recovered and made it back to the wedding just in time to bid farewell to his fickle bride and to meet his replacement. The Bible says that Jesus has a bride that has switched husband several times. Stay with us friends. We'll learn more on this edition of BibleAnswers Live.


Recorded: You're listening to Bible Answers Live, honest answers to your Bible questions. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now, let's Join our host Pastor Doug Batchelor and our co-host Pastor Jëan Ross.

Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live. This is a live international interactive Bible study. We invite you to join in. We're glad you're listening. You can call in with your Bible questions. We have lines open right now. We're also streaming on Facebook at the Doug Batchelor and the Amazing Facts facebook pages. If you have a Bible question, here's the phone number, a free phone call. It's 800-463-7297. That's 800-God-Says. Once again, get your pencil. Got a Bible question, any question about the Christian life? 800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening friends and Pastor Doug, let's start the program with prayer. Dear Father, we thank you that we have this time to open up your word tonight and study. We do ask for the Holy Spirit to come and guide us. As we search the Scriptures, lead us into a clear understanding of the truth. For we ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program with a rather interesting story about a wedding gone wrong. Here is this girl ready to get married and then discover something about her husband that she wasn't very impressed with and decided to choose somebody else right on the spot to take this place.

Pastor Doug: I couldn't help but wonder if maybe she wasn't a high maintenance person and he pretended to have an epileptic fit. [laughs] Yes, this was in the Indian Times. I guess it happened. You're wondering what the rest of the story is, or how it turned out after that when this man goes thinking he's watching a relative get married and he ends up being the groom before the end of the day. [laughs] Yes, stranger things have happened. It made me think about in the Bible, God often refers to the church as his bride. People say, well, Jesus was never married. Not exactly.

The Bible tells us that Christ is the husband and the church is the bride. Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. There's an interesting prophetic book in the Bible, Hosea, where Hosea is told to go and take a wife, who is a known prostitute. You might think, "Why would God ever tell a pastor or a priest to do that? Isn't that forbidden?" He was illustrating that the church has often been unfaithful to Him.

You can read in Jeremiah 2:32, "Can a virgin forget her ornaments or a bride her attire yet my people have forgotten me days without number?" There's many stories. In Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, where they often use the symbolism of God's people as a bride or wife, that's been unfaithful. You see this even happening in the book of Revelation. There are two prominent women that are mentioned in Revelation. Revelation 12 has a picture of God's faithful Church shone as a woman of light.

Then you have Revelation 17, a picture of, well, she's sometimes called the Scarlet Harlot. She's dressed in red, and she has been unfaithful to the truth and has many other lovers. This analogy goes all the way through the Bible. Maybe you'd like to understand something more about what these prophecies mean relating to the bride of Christ. We have a study guide we'd like to give you for free that's beautifully illustrated a lot of scriptures on this subject. All you have to do is call we'll send it.

Pastor Ross: The study guide is entitled The other woman. It greatly deals with Revelation 17, describes this religious powerful church in the last days that has turned against God. We'll be happy to send this to anyone wanting to learn more. Just ask for the study guide called The other woman, when you call the number 800-835-6747. That is our resource phone line.

Again, the number 800-835-6747 and ask for the study guide called The other woman. We'll be happy to send it out to anyone who calls and asks. If you have a Bible question, our phone line here to the studio is 800-463-7297. Again, that's 800-463-7297. Our first caller this evening is Tyler, and he's listening in Oklahoma City. Tyler, welcome to the program.

Tyler: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Tyler. How can we help you tonight?

Tyler: Well, I have a YouTube channel called Biblical seekers. I was wondering if you had any tips for a young pastor, like how you write an hour-long sermon every week?

Pastor Doug: Are you aspiring to be a pastor?

Tyler: Yes.

Pastor Doug: You're doing some preaching online? Well, good for you. Bible says that it's important for young people to be involved in God's work. Well, I don't write out my whole sermon. I usually have an outline that has some high points and scriptures I want to use. Then it's important, of course, to introduce some parables or stories so people can picture what you're teaching. This is what Jesus did. He illustrated with different parables. You need to pray, you read the Bible, and then the Holy Spirit just inspires you with some of the different stories and thoughts.

My problem is, I'm thinking of new sermons all week long, but I forget to write down my thoughts and then I forget what they were. Yes, you ask the Holy Spirit to guide you, and God will guide you in sermon material. Another thing you can do, you even go to the Amazing Facts website, you'll see there's a lot of sermon books that we have. They're basically very short books that are transcriptions of sermons. They are about, I don't know, probably about 4,000 words each. You can look through the library of Amazing Facts, sermons, and then put them in your own words, and you'll think of some new illustrations to add. A lot of preachers build on the shoulders of other preachers.

Tyler: Okay. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right. Thank you, Tyler. Yes, we invite you to call and you'd enjoy the study guide we're offering tonight. It's a good study on revelation 17. I appreciate your call.

Pastor Ross: Again, the number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide that we are offering this evening called the other woman. You can also ask for another study guide that goes along with that same subject called the bride of Christ, which talks about the true church in the last days. As for either one of those study guides, the bride of Christ or the other woman, we'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. We've got Chase listening in Houston, Texas. Chase, welcome to the program.

Chase: Hello. Thank you for having me.

Pastor Ross: Yes. Thanks for calling.

Chase: Yes. I have a question about Revelation 13:8 where it speaks about the book of life and the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. When I compare that to 17:8, it seems to be what the foundation of the world referring to is the book of life itself. I was wondering, can you explain to me what it means from the foundation of the world?

Pastor Doug: Well, I'll do my best to starting with the verse in 13:8, it talks about the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. You remember in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and they discovered their garments of light. It's believed they had some kind of garment of light that evaporated. When they send them, they saw their nakedness. They tried to cover their nakedness with fig leaves, and God told them that wouldn't work and God gave them skin.

Now, this was the point where God established the sacrificial system that was later followed by Abel, Noah, and Abraham, you see them sacrificing lambs, and it carries on through Moses and the priest. Then when God at the very beginning of the world establishes the sacrificial system, it is where the plan of God sending his son as the Lamb of God, is first introduced. Many scholars think that this is what's happening here when it talks about the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, that first lamb was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God, who would die for our sins.

Even before the world was created, God knew what was going to happen when Lucifer rebelled. I believe it was understood from eternity that Jesus would die to save the fallen race. Now verse, I don't know if you have any other comments on that, Pastor Ross?

Pastor Ross: I was just looking at a cross-reference to that too, which is interesting. Matthew 25:34, Jesus talking to his disciples. He tells the parable, and he says, "Then the king shall say to those on his right hand, come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom, prepared for you from the foundation of the world." Not only do we have the book of life from the foundation of the world, and you have a sacrifice plan of redemption set into motion when men sinned, but even the promised kingdom, which comes through that sacrifice of Christ is promised at the foundation of the world.

Pastor Doug: Right, when the problem began, God's solution began.

Chase: I see.

Pastor Doug: Does that make sense?

Chase: Yes, it does. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right, he thank you very much Chase. We do appreciate your call. Hope we hear from you again.

Recorded: Deep within the pages of the Bible, stories of great heroes, heroes of great deeds, great love, and great sacrifice. But behind them, is another hero, hidden in plain sight, amid the shadows. He was there from the beginning, and he'll be there until the end. Discover the golden thread of a Savior woven throughout the entire Bible tapestry. Shadows of light. Seeing Jesus in all the Bible. Get your copy today by calling it 800-538 7275. Or visit AF

Pastor Ross: Our next caller that we have is Jonathan calling from Florida. Jonathan, welcome to the program.

Jonathan: Hello, hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, thank you for calling.

Jonathan: Hello, Pastor Doug, Pastor Ross. I just wanted to ask, I have a few concerns about when I'm studying and I'm trying to put these things into practice and seeking purity and seeking like holiness. Why it's so difficult to associate and sometimes I encounter being seen as a sort of fanatic?

Pastor Doug: Well, first of all, in our world today, if you're looking for that purity of heart, it is going to be out of the norm. Jesus said, if they hated me, they're gonna hate you. I wouldn't worry about what the world thinks. The Bible says, Blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God. People are going to mock that it's going to be a threat to the devil and he'll try to discourage anybody who's looking for holiness. By all means, that's the purpose of the gospel is not to make us happy.

It's to make us holy. In the real holiness, we find true happiness. People often think I'm going to see what I can do to find happiness, and they go to sin. Well, sin will never bring happiness. If a person makes pursuit of holiness, their goal, in the end, they'll find real joy. Your world is going to mock you. The striving for purity of heart is an ongoing battle, why we're in this life. Because you're like a fish out of water. You got to, you just gotta stay with it.

Pastor Ross: Jesus said something along these lines in John 17. He says, He is praying for his disciples and said, "Father, I pray that you do not take them out of the world, but keep them from the world." And then it says, "I am not of the world. And neither are they, if they believe in me", so we're sort of in a hostile territory here. We need to recognize that this earth currently is under the control of Satan. We want to be faithful to God, there's going to be some conflict in our own hearts and lives and we want to choose him daily.

Jonathan: Thank you. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right. Hey, thank you so much. Appreciate your call, Jonathan. good name. That means the gift of Jehovah. Who's next?

Pastor Ross: We've got Brian listening in Sacramento, Brian, welcome to the program.

Brian: Hi, pastors.

Pastor Doug: Hi, thanks for calling.

Brian: I think my question has to do with how the Trinity operates. My question is, if Jesus is the Word of God, and He is the voice of God, and the new in the Old Testament. Does God the Father actually speak?

Pastor Doug: Well, when Jesus is in the water, getting baptized, and there's a voice from heaven unless Jesus is working as a ventriloquist, then you got, God, the Father must be the one speaking when he says, "This is my beloved Son." Then there's another occasion when Jesus is on the mountain on the Mount of Transfiguration. He again, he says, "This is my son, hear him." You have the voice must be the voice of the Father, which is pretty awesome thing to consider that the voice of God the Father would speak to man. Otherwise, other times when you hear the voice, you could argue it's the voice of Christ, that is speaking, but when you're looking at Jesus, and you hearing a different voice, must have been the voice of the Father.

Brian: Perfect answer.

Pastor Doug: All right. Hey, thanks so much, Brian. Appreciate your call. And you drive careful.

Brian: Thank you.

Pastor Ross: We have Elena listening in high desert, California. Elena, welcome to the program.

Elena: God bless you guys.

Pastor Ross: Well, thank you.

Elena: I'm nervous. Okay. My question is, on 83, 84 and 85 and Deuteronomy 28, 68 and mostly Deuteronomy, the curses. Okay. I have a couple people that keep asking me, is this the black America? Well, you guys say after I say black? African Americans? Is that referring to the African Americans of the black people?

Pastor Doug: Well, let me go to the verse again. You said Psalm. I want to the first one is Psalm 83?

Elena: Yes, Psalm 83, 84 and 83, 85.

Pastor Doug: All right, let me read it. Let me read this for friends that are listening. They have said, "Come and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be remembered no more for the have consulted together with one consent, they form a confederacy against you." Is that the one you're talking about?

Elena: Yes. Then number five? Yes, that's it. Then Deuteronomy 28, 68. Then they start talking about a dinner, Deuteronomy 28. The curses? I don't know what to say because it does sound like a lot about sounds like African Americans are talking about. I'm like, I don't know. [laughs]

Pastor Doug: You know what, when you read in Deuteronomy-- Well, first of all, Deuteronomy, not only chapter 28, not only has curses, it's got a lot of blessings. It says, If you obey the Lord, you'll be blessed. When you go out, when you come in, when you sit down, when you rise up, you'll be blessed in your field, you'll be blessed in your family. It talks about all these wonderful blessings. Then it goes on it says, "Now if you turn from the Lord and cease to obey Him, you will be cursed." It goes into great detail of the curses. All the curses that Moses mentioned in Deuteronomy 28, at one time or another, happened to Israel or Judah, all of them.

They're not talking about a particular race. It's talking about curses that came on the nation of Israel, when they turned away from God, every single one of those talks about them being besieged by their enemies, which happened. Turning to cannibalism, which happened. Being carried to another land, which happened. Then he says, but if, in those foreign countries you turned back to me and prayed towards this place, I will bring you back again, which also happened. I don't think any of that has anything to do with black Americans or Asians or anybody else.

Elena: Like Psalms 83, 84, 85, is that the same thing that happened already? Right?

Pastor Doug: Well, David is praying there in Psalms 83. He's talking about just, you know, vengeance on his enemies and the plots of his enemies. I'm not sure who's reading, you may hear someone trying to read something into that that I've never heard before thought of. Yes, these are largely prophecies that talk about the history of Israel.

Elena: Okay, thank you. I can just say that's a negative on that one?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Elena: Okay, and I did do my DNA and it does say Ashkenazi Jew a little bit.

Pastor Doug: Good. Hey, by the way, I did my DNA and I found out we're all related. It came back and said, I'm related to Noah.

Elena: Oh, man, are you kidding?

Pastor Doug: And so are you.

Elena: That's true.

Pastor Doug: We're all kin, aren't we?

Elena: Pastor Batchelor, you are so funny.


Pastor Doug: I actually did do my DNA but Noah's name didn't come up. I just know that from the Bible. All right, well, God bless you. We appreciate your question to ELena.

Elena: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Pastor Doug: Bye, bye.

Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is Helen and she's listening from Reno. Helen, welcome to the program.

Helen: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi. You're just over the mountains separated by piles of snow.

Helen: Exactly.

Pastor Doug: Your question tonight?

Helen: Yes. How is it that Satan had access to communicate with God and accuse Job and can you still do that?

Pastor Doug: All right, good question. You read in the first chapter of Job, that there was a day when the sons of God came to bring themselves to the Lord and Satan came also. The Bible says that God says to the devil, "Where'd you come from?" He said, "I came from the earth." Not that God didn't know, God often asks questions so that a statement can be made and everyone else knows. Satan claimed possession of this earth.

Where was this meeting? Somewhere out there in the cosmos, the Bible says, Satan. The dragon was cast out of heaven in Revelation 12. When Adam and Eve fell, Romans 6 says, "Whoever you listen to, that's who's servant you are." When Adam and Eve chose to listen to the devil, instead of God, the dominion of our world fell into the hands of Lucifer. Even Jesus said of Lucifer, he is the prince of this world. Satan came representing Planet Earth, among these other heavenly leaders. Now, I don't believe he still has that right anymore. I think when Jesus came.

Helen: I thought that too.

Pastor Doug: Jesus said, I saw Satan fall like lightning. I think when Christ came and redeemed the planet, Satan no longer was able to claim Dominion of this world. Prior to that, as best as we can tell, he did. You read in the book of Zachariah where he's the accuser of Joshua, the high priest. It's a vision, but he's standing there as the accuser of the brethren. You see that picture? You know all through history of Lucifer.

Pastor Ross: That's Zachariah 3.

Pastor Doug: Yes. I hope that helps a little, Helen.

Helen: Thank you so much. All right. Hey, appreciate your question.

Pastor Doug: We do have a lesson if you want to know more about that. It's called, Did God create a devil? We'll send that to you for free if you'd like.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. And again, you can ask for that study guide called, Did God create a devil? We'll be happy to send that out to you, Helen or anyone who calls and asks. We've got Linda listening in Middletown, Connecticut. Linda, welcome to the program.

Linda: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hey, Linda. We've got a Middletown and California to you know, there's probably several of them around the country.

Linda: Yes, ah.

Pastor Doug: Your question?

Linda: It's about when Jesus stated his purpose for coming? All not self-righteous, but sinners to repentance. The Pharisees interrupted him in regards to fasting, and he answered with three parables. The three parables was, in order was the bride chamber while the bridegroom is with them. The second one was a new cloth on an old coat. The third one was new wine and old wine skins. Could you explain the three parables? If it is in relationship, to what I can see, what's the setting of where Jesus set all not the self-righteous, but sinners?

Pastor Doug: Right, great question. I'll have to give you an abbreviated answer, Linda, simply because you've asked me to help unpack three parables, I could do a sermon on each one of those. Very quickly, Christ's teaching was so different. The Pharisees and many of the religious leaders had become preoccupied with man-made traditions. When Christ came to teach the pure truth of the gospel, he said, "Look, I've got new wine." For you with your rooted in these old traditions, to accept, it would be like putting the new wine and old wine skins, you're going to have a hard time swallowing that.

He talked about, you don't take-- I remember, when we used to patch our Jëans, now people just buy a new pair. I had patches on my Jëans growing up, and they didn't have the iron on patches my grandma would sew them on. If you put a new patch, on an old pair of Jëans, the new cloth would shrink and tear it out. You had to take an old pair Jëans, cut a piece of patch out, and sew the old Jëans on the old Jëans.

Jesus is using that illustration to say, this new truth is not going to fit very well with the old traditions. He said, you can't, you cannot fast while the bridegroom is with you, meaning Jesus was with him, when he left, there would be plenty of time for the church to fast. While he was with him, they need to just be with him and soak up every word that came from his lips. Christ came really, to help the religious people. I should say, really came to help the common people break out of the crest of tradition that a lot of the religious leaders had built up over the pure truth of God. It was a real struggle.

Pastor Ross: Well, if you look at some of the symbols mentioned in these parables, wine, you got pure wine, or pure grape juice, which is sometimes the reference to truth and doctrine. Then you have the false wine or the fermented wine that you read about in Revelation 17, represents false doctrine. Jesus came to bring truth. When it talks about a garment or clothes in the Bible, sometimes it represents righteousness. And the Pharisees are very concerned about their outward show of righteousness. Jesus says that kind of righteousness won't work. It's like trying to sow a patch on a garment that will tear away his righteousness is really the only righteousness that saves.

Pastor Doug: Linda, we'll be happy to send you a book, we've got something called baptized paganism. That talks a little bit about some of the man-made traditions, you might enjoy that. We'll send you a free copy.

Pastor Ross: The number to call if you'd like to receive that is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Baptized Paganism. We'll be happy to send it out to anyone who calls and asks. Pastor Doug, we're looking at the clock and we're coming up on a half-hour break in the program, probably not wise to take another caller. We won't be able to get too much in before we have to take that break. We do have some great resources that we want to let people know about at the amazing facts website.

Pastor Doug: Absolutely. If you simply go to, you're going to find that a lot of the offers. You can read them there. You can download them as PDFs, you can send them to your friends, and it'll be a blessing to them. Now, the program's not over. We're just going to take a drink and catch our breath. Be back. call in with your Bible questions. Those who are waiting, we'll be right there.


Recorded: Stay tuned. Bible answers live will return in a moment.


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Recorded: What if you could know the future? What would you do? What would you change? To see the future you must understand the past.

Recorded: Alexander the Great becomes King when he's only 18. But he's a military prodigy.

Recorded: 150 years in advance, Cyrus had been named. Rome was violent. They were ruthless. They were determined. The Gospel writers see his death as a fulfillment of salvation.

Recorded: This intriguing documentary hosted by Pastor Doug Batchelor explores the most striking Bible prophecies that have been dramatically fulfilled throughout history kingdoms in time. Get your copy today. Available now on DVD blu ray or USB. For more information, visit

Recorded: Every Bible question you have answered moves you one step closer to the fullness of God's will for your life. So what are you waiting for? Get the answers you need for a fuller, richer, more confident life. You're listening to Bible Answers Live. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7:00 PM and 8:00 PM Pacific Time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now, let's join pastors Doug Batchelor and John Ross. For more Bible answers live.

Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends, to Bible Answers Live. We're going to go back to our phones in just a moment. For those who have joined us along the way, this is a live international interactive Bible study. We'd be happy for you to call in with your questions. Here's the number one more time 800-463-7297, 463-7297 with your Bible questions. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is John Ross, and we're going to go to our next caller, we have Andrew listening in Tennessee. Andrew, welcome to the program.

Andrew: Hi, pastors. Good evening.

Pastor Doug: Hi, evening. Thanks for calling.

Andrew: I have a question regarding-- I always, always get this question from everybody. This answer from everybody who are we to question God? I think that as, as Christians, we should always have an answer for our faith. Recently, I had a good friend of mine depart the faith. My brother is borderline because of a specific story in the Bible where God asked Saul to go and destroy everybody. Wipe out an entire society basically. Why specifically did God ask him to wipe out this particular race completely, as opposed to several other races where he asked them to spare the women and children?

Pastor Doug: All right, good question. This is where God told King Saul to go and basically annihilate the Amalekites. Now you gotta know the history, Amalekites were bad dudes. When the children of Israel came out of Egypt, completely unprovoked, the Amalekites attack them from the behind killing the women, the children and the old people of Israel. All through their desert wanderings, the Amalekites were sort of desert Raiders. They continue to attack them. God basically said, I'm making a note of that. The Amalekites had sworn that they were going to destroy Israel.

Just to show you at one point because Saul did not kill all of the Amalekites, he spared a king name Agag. Agag and some of his family had escaped to live. They went to Persia. You read the book of Esther and there's a man named Haman, who was Agagite, and he tries to inspire, he has, he wears the king of Persia, or is it he has he wears, to kill all of the Jews. He wanted to annihilate the Jews. There was like a blood feud. Now people say, "Well, why would God do that?" Well, what happened during the flood? I mean, when God sent the flood on the world, why asked about the Amalekites.

All the men, women and children outside the ark died. Any of them could have come to the ark and lived you know, the Amalekites were allowed to join Israel and be saved. You can even read a story in the Bible where and Amalekites came to David he was hoping to get a reward. He told the lie but the Amalekites lived among the Israelites, they could have converted. They were basically, they'd like taken a blood vow to destroy Israel. It was something that God said, Look, if you don't do this, they're going to try and destroy you, which was pretty moving in the book of Esther. I know it sounds brutal.

When you think about it, if God judges a nation, when's the second coming? Men, women, and children will die. Correct? Whether it's through an act of war, whether it's through a flood. All of us are living under a death sentence right now. I just know in our culture, we think well, that that sounds like genocide, annihilation. To what it was, and all the lost will be judged.

Andrew: It's just difficult for them. I somewhat understand the reasons, I understand the and all of their gods, they were basically throwing their children to the flame. So it wasn't any different.

Pastor Doug: They were diseased, there's a lot of things I can't even go into on the radio that were happening among some of these people. God had to make a pretty tough call when he said, "Look, if you don't deal with all of them, it's going to contaminate the whole nation."

Andrew: Well, thank you. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right. Hey, thanks. Good question. Appreciate that, Andrew.

Pastor Ross: Next caller that we have is Bonnie listening from Canada. Bonnie, welcome to the program.

Bonnie: Thank you so much, Pastor John Ross, and Hello, Pastor Doug as well. My question is, do you believe there will be a pre-tribulation rapture?

Pastor Doug: All right. Now, just for our friends listening, the idea of the rapture, there's kind of two or three different views. It means that Christians will be caught up. Now the Bible does say we will be caught up in first 1 Thessaloniki 4. When the Lord descends from heaven with a shout, voice of the archangel, the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ will rise, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet them in the air. That means to be wrapped. The word rapture, actually, that means to be carried away with power. We're going to be carried away with power when the Lord comes.

Does it happen before, during or after the tribulation? Well, Jesus said, except those days be short, no flesh would be saved. He said, "He that endures to the end will be saved." You read in Daniel 12. At that time, Michael will stand up and there'll be a great time of trouble. He comes to deliver his people after this time of trouble. I think the idea that the rapture takes place before the Second Coming isn't taught in the Bible. It's a relatively new teaching. That's why Paul says, and you might have to help me find this. It's in Acts, Paul says, "It is through much tribulation, we enter the kingdom." Through tribulation, not from tribulation.

I remind people that the Great Tribulation at the end of time is when the seven last plagues fall. God does not save us from tribulation, he saves us through tribulation. When the children of this will work in Egypt, 10 plagues fell on Egypt, God didn't save them before the plagues. He saved them from Egypt, after the plagues. They were in Egypt during the plagues, but he protected them. We are protected during the time of trouble. God brings us through it and that's when we're caught up. The second coming happens at the end, or the climax of that time of trouble. That's, by the way found in the seven plagues. It's the last plane, Christ then comes to deliver them.

Pastor Ross: The verse you're referring to is Acts 14:22, where it says, We must through many tribulations into the kingdom of God.

Pastor Doug: I have a book, I can send you, Bonnie on that for free. That talks specifically about that's got all the verses, many more than we can share in three minutes here. The book is called anything but secret. It's about the Second Coming.

Pastor Ross: The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. Again, Bonnie, you can ask for the book called anything but secret. Of course, not only for Bonnie, but for anyone listening. If you want to learn more about this important subject, call and ask for the book called anything but secret. We have Travis who's listening from Oklahoma. Travis, welcome to the program.

Travis: Thanks, guys. Good to talk to you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you. And your question.

Travis: Okay. My question is, it has to do with the Ark of the Covenant in, in the covering cherub and in Ezekiel 28:13-15. It's talking about how Lucifer was a covering cherub them until iniquity was found in him. I was talking to some fellow Christians this past church this past weekend, and we were talking about who the other covering Chairman was. And I said it was Jesus. When they asked me if I could prove it, I said, "Well, actually, I don't think I can prove it. I've just always thought that." I was wondering what your guys's thoughts are on that?

Pastor Doug: No, that's a fair question. You know, you read in a Isaiah 6, Isaiah has a vision of God on his throne and he's got an angel on the right and the left. And these angels have six wings, and they cry Holy, holy, holy. Now those Sarah foam cherub them. They're not Jesus. Jesus is sometimes called Michael the archangel, but that's not a chair of them are Sarah from, that just means the greatest messenger. Jesus is God the Son. He is not a created being Lucifer was created. That's why God says you were perfect from the day you were created. Until iniquity was found in you. Jesus was never created. He said, from everlasting to everlasting, he is God.

He's the Alpha and the Omega. The Bible tells us all things that were made were made by him so he can't be created if he made all things because he have to have made himself Jesus is not an angel. These are two of the ministering spirits. Now I can only speculate some have wondered. The other Angel that's named in the Bible besides Lucifer is Gabriel. Some have wondered if one of those covering cherubs is Gabriel. I think there's a good chance one of them is. Who the one is that took the place of Lucifer I don't believe it's named in the Bible. I think in Catholic theology they say Raphael but the name Raphael doesn't appear in the Bible. To give you a Bible answer, we just have to guess who that other angel is.

Travis: Got it.

Pastor Doug: His name might be Leon, I don't know.

Pastor Ross: There is an interesting verse and you can probably compare two verses together. In Psalms 45:6 it says, "Your throne oh God is forever and ever. The scepter of righteousness." Then Paul quotes this Psalm and Hebrews 1:8-9 and applies it to Jesus. Jesus is the one who is described as being seated at the side of the Father on the throne. He's not one of the covering cherubs. He's actually on the throne with the Father.

Pastor Doug: Good point. Thank you, Travis. Appreciate your question. What do we have next here?

Pastor Ross: We got John listening in Washington. John, welcome to the program.

John: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, John you're on the air.

John: Thank you, pastors. Good evening.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

John: Thank you for everything you guys do. Question is about first chapters 13. I have been listening to a sermon in which this pastor mentioned that the old prophet was the false-- Do you have anything on that? Is it true that he was a false prophet?

Pastor Doug: Your phone's breaking up a little bit. You said that the pastor said all the prophets in this story or false prophets?

John: No, no, just the old one. The second prophet.

Pastor Doug: There was an old man in the story. I don't know if he say he was a false prophet his prophecy came true. God actually spoke through him. Sometimes there are prophets that have gone bad. You've got the story of Balaam. He was a prophet and he went bad but what he prophesied was true. Then you've got this old prophet. He told the young prophet that when you leave because you've disobeyed the Lord, a lion is going to get you and that's exactly what happened.

Then he also told his sons bury me on top of this prophet because everything he said is going to come true and that came true. I think that he lied. I don’t know. What do you think, Pastor Ross? It seems like at least a couple of his prophecies came true.

Pastor Ross: Right. Let's say especially those prophecies with reference to what would happen to the prophet being killed by a lion. That was inspired by the Spirit of God because that's exactly what happened.

Pastor Doug: He probably wasn't a prophet up to that point.

Pastor Ross: Right. It seemed like he lied and said, "I'm also a prophet." Maybe God had spoken through him at a previous point when he was faithful, but at this time apparently he wasn't. God had to bring a prophet all the way up from Judah to rebuke the king because of his false teaching and false worship. Maybe God did speak to him at one point like you read in the Old Testament with Valium. He turned maybe away from God and then God once again inspired him to speak to the other Prophet. Kind of interesting story.

Pastor Doug: People sometimes forget that even Saul at one time was a prophet. One of the most disturbing prophets in the Bible is the high priest uttered a prophecy. John said because he was the high priest that it was expedient that Jesus died to save the nation. Of course, there's a spiritual prophecy there but anyway, now we're starting to ramble. I hope that helped a little bit, John.

John: That will help. Can I have time for a quick question? Another quick question.

Pastor Doug: Okay another quick one. On Job 2:9 there's a-- I have a couple Bibles and one of them says, "I curse God." And the other one says bless God and die. Which is the right one.

Pastor Doug: They're different versions, yes. That word there I believe that it's correct in the King James and the New King James Version that Job's wife told him curse God and die. Because he said you speak as one of the foolish women. If she had said bless God, maybe he wouldn't have said that. She had become so distraught and you can understand he lost their children and they lost all their possessions and now her husband has lost his health and the devil is trying to speak through her to discourage Job. I think that the fact that the devil was speaking through her he didn't say bless God and die. I think it's correct he said, "Curse God and die." Thank you, Jonathan. Appreciate your call. Who's in line next here?

Pastor Ross: We got Dale listening from Illinois. Dale, welcome to the program.

Dale: Hi, thanks for taking my call. I would like to know what your position is on baptism. Whether it's necessary for salvation. Some people believe it is. I personally do not believe it is, but I'd like to hear what you say.

Pastor Doug: Okay. We're going to turn your volume down. I think we hear a radio in the background. Helps you, prevent feedback. That's a question you got to answer very carefully. There's going to be a lot of people in heaven that were not baptized. Of course, you got a whole raft of Old Testament heroes that will be in heaven. There's no record of baptism there. Obviously baptism is not an absolute necessity to salvation or how do you get Abraham, Isaac and Jacob saved or David.

Jesus commands from the time of John the Baptist. We have a command that if you're going to surrender to the Lord be washed from your sins, the baptism was that ceremony. When a person says, "I believe in the Lord." Why would a believer not want to be baptized? It would be my question. There are some very strong verses. Jesus said, "Go therefore teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit." That's Matthew 28 and Mark 16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. John chapter three Jesus said, "Unless you're born of the water and the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." There's some pretty strong verses that talk about the importance of making that public commitment of baptism.

Baptism is as important to a Christian as a wedding service should be to a marriage. Will there be people in heaven who are not baptized? Of course. Thief on the cross came to Jesus in his dying hours and Christ said, "You will be in my kingdom." I think Christ gave him credit for his own baptism. If people accept the Lord in the final hours of their life and they can't be baptized, I think the Lord can save them. Baptism is not essential. If you just got a lazy Christian who says, "You know, I don't want to go through the hassle of being baptized and God will save me. In my heart, he knows my heart is right." That I think is irresponsible. When God commands us to do something like that we should do it.

We've got a book that answers that question very specifically. If anyone out there wants to know more about it it's called Baptism Is it Necessary? The very thing that you're asking Dale. Baptism Is it Necessary. We will send you or anyone a free copy.

Pastor Ross: The number to call for the book is 8008356747. You can ask for the book called Baptism Is it Really Necessary? Let me give you that number one more time. It's 800-835-6747. Again the book is called Baptism Is it Really Necessary?

Recorded: You want to know God's plan for our world and solutions for your life's challenges? Beautifully redesigned, Amazing Facts 27 Bible study guides provide encouraging Bible based answers to questions on healthier relationships, when Jesus will return and much more. Prefer to watch while you read. Our brand new prophecy encounters DVD series makes the perfect companion set. Order your study guides and DVDs today by visiting or by calling 800-538-7275.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Roger and he's listening from Colorado. Roger, welcome to the program.

Roger: Thank you for having me. My question concerns Revelations 13 verses I believe it's 11-18. What kingdom is that that comes out of the land? The beast represents a kingdom I understand.

Pastor Doug: Correct.

Roger: What kingdom is it?

Pastor Doug: I believe it's the United States. That's a quick answer. Let me give you the reasons for it. You look in Revelation 13. It talks about this first beast that comes out of the sea. You read in Revelation 17, the angel says the sea represents multitudes of peoples and nations. The first piece in Revelation 13 springs out of that densely populated area surrounding the Mediterranean during the time of the Roman Empire. Whereas at the end of the rule of that first beast, when it receives a deadly wound another nation springs up.

Most people believe the first beast is what happens to the church with the papacy. That with the rise of the-- The church drifted from the Bible teachings and the church became a political-religious power during the Dark Ages. Every Kingdom in Europe had a priest next to the king and the queen. There were some corruption that came in there. They received the deadly wound during Napoleon's time in 1798. Right about that time the United States had been declared a nation. A matter of fact, we had our constitution in 1776. US was not recognized as an independent country from England until 1798, exactly that same time period. Says it grew up out of the earth because America was very sparsely populated at that time. It's like this new continent suddenly appears.

Pastor Ross: Something else to note, the first beast in Revelation chapter 13, it says that it has seven heads and 10 horns and then verse one says that has 10 crowns upon its horns, symbolizing a monarchy. When you get to the second beast in Revelation 13:11, it talks about this beast coming up from the earth, he had two horns like a lamb and doesn't say anything about crowns. A number of Bible scholars have recognized that this power being described here as the second beast, would be different from those nations of Europe, in that it would be a democracy, not a monarchy. The two horns are described as the two principles upon which the United States was based, freedom of worship, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech, freedom government.

Pastor Doug: We have a lesson we can send you. I'm a loyal American citizen. The good thing about this is it says the first piece came up with two horns like a lamb. A lamb was a good thing, starts out good, Christian freedom, but then it speaks like a dragon. At some point in the future, America is going to turn on its foundational principles. We have a lesson we can send you, Roger, for free. Anyone who wants to know about America and prophecy, that's the name of the lesson. Just call and ask for it.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. Again, you can ask for the study guide called "America in Prophecy", and we'll be happy to send that to anyone who calls and asks. Very fascinating study. The next caller that we have is Ernie listening, it looks like from Oklahoma. Ernie, welcome to the program.

Ernie: Good evening gentlemen?

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Ernie: The question I have is the second part of Revelation 7:14 and it reads, these are they which came out of the Great Tribulation and washed their robes, made them white in the blood of the Lamb. I've always been troubled by the fact this is washed past tense. It sounds like something we have to do with works instead of faith in Jesus.

Pastor Doug: Well, Jesus tells us what the work is. He said this is the work that you believe. I'm the one the father has sent. If you want to call it a work, the work is we need to work at believing, I suppose. It is through our surrendering, we do get to choose to surrender our lives to Christ to trust in him. When we sin, we repent of our sins in the process of confessing and repenting of our sins, we are washing our robes in the blood of the Lamb through faith. Does that make sense?

Ernie: Okay, that way it does.

Pastor Doug: Now we're not out there by the river scrubbing our robes when being in it with a rock trying to get the stains out. You don't get too many things white in blood, you wash them in blood, they usually don't turn white. I think it was Billy Sunday, the evangelist who used to say, I don't know how a black cow can eat green grass and make white milk and yellow butter, but it works. We don't know how you can wash a robe in the blood of the lamb and make it white but as it says in the song, it becomes whiter than snow though our sins be as scarlet.

Ernie: I've always said black sins washed with red blood makes a snow-white person.

Pastor Doug: That's right. That's the way to look at that. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate your question. I'm trying to think if that we have a booklet that talking about "Riches of His Grace", I think you would enjoy that. We'll send you a free book. That is a great book. For anyone wanting to learn more about God's grace, the number is 800-835-6747 and you can ask for the book, "Riches of His Grace", and we'll be happy to send that out to anyone who calls and asks.

Recorded: Did you know Amazing Facts has a free Bible school that you can do from the comfort of your own home. It includes 27, beautifully illustrated study lessons to aid in your study of God's Word. Sign up today for this free Bible Study Course by calling 1-844-215-7000 that's 1-844-215-7000.

Pastor Doug: Well, we ready for our next caller Pastor Doug, let's try this one. we have Elane listening in Idaho. Elaine, welcome to the program. We've got about a minute Elaine, can we do it?

Elaine: This is Elaine.

Pastor Doug: Elaine, that's you. Sorry.

Elaine: That's okay. When Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven, did he have a choice of where he went or did God send them to this earth only?

Pastor Doug: Well, I think that at first, when Satan was cast out, he had started a rebellion with his angels in heaven. They then went roaming through the universe, we believe to try to find other support. When the devil came to our planet, and he tried to tempt our first parents, I suppose he had presented temptations to other on fallen worlds, and it didn't go anywhere. When our planet chose to listen to the devil's temptation, as I mentioned earlier tonight, they surrendered the dominion. God gave dominion of the world to Adam and Eve, and when they chose not to believe God and to believe Satan, they lost that Dominion through sin. Satan then basically set up his headquarters here.

Ultimately, God, you read in Revelation 12, there was a war in heaven, Satan and his angels were cast down to the earth and because this world chose to listen to the devil, he got a foothold here. From here, our planet has been the staging ground, our planet has been the bivouac. It has been the beachhead, where Satan has continued his battle against the policies of heaven and God and using people in the world here is his pawns to demonstrate that. We do have a book that explains something about that and it's called "Did God Created the Devil". It'll talk to you about the fall of Lucifer, and we'll send you a free copy. Elaine, we thank you for your call.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. Again, you can ask for the study guide called "Did God Create a Devil?"

Pastor Doug: It tells us a great study, talks about where did sin come from? Why would a loving God allow sin? Hey listen here friends, we've only got a few moments left We're going to have to sign off. We want to remind you you can support this program, it's the only way we stay on the air. Just go to and click donate. God bless, we'll study together next week.

Recorded: Thank you for listening to today's broadcast. We hope you understand your Bible even better than before. Bible answers live is produced by Amazing Facts, a faith-based ministry located in Sacramento, California.


Journey back to the center of the universe. Discover how it perfect angel transformed into sin, the arch-villain. The birth of evil, of rebellion in heaven. A move that moved to earth. The whole, the creation of a beautiful new plant and the first humans witness the temptation. Discover God's amazing plan to save his children. This is a story that involves every life on earth, every life. The "Cosmic Conflict" if God is good, if God is all-powerful if God is love, then what went wrong?

Find out what the critics are raving about. Top scholars and theologians from around the country come together to reveal the hidden history of the book of Revelation. With powerful reenactments and incredible visual effects, this 95-minute masterpiece brings to life the book of Revelation like never before. Revelation is no longer a mystery. Get your copy today. Visit iTunes or

Written by the hand of God and spoken with his voice. Some words will never fade. Reach Pastor Doug Batchelor's 12 part sermon series on the 10 commandments by calling 800-538-7275 or visit


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