In the Name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit

In the Name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit

Date: 07/28/2019 
Listeners from around the country tune in every week to discover more of the Bible and God's perfect wisdom. Join Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross in this installment of Bible Answers Live and learn about prayer, graven images and a medley of other topics. Tune in and come study with us !
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Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello, listening friends. You want to hear an amazing fact? In the early 1800s, communications in North America were carried by foot, horse, or train across the country. Depending on the weather and road conditions, you could take weeks or months to get a message from coast to coast.

Then in 1832, Samuel FB Morse, an accomplished American painter while visiting France was inspired about an idea he heard of sending messages electronically through a wire. Morse spent the next 12 years perfecting a working telegraph instrument. During the same period, he also composed a digital alphabet, better known as Morse code, a set of short and long dot and dash sounds that could represent different letters and numbers in Telegraph messages. Morse eventually convinced Congress to finance a Washington to Baltimore Telegraph line.

On May 24, 1844, in a demonstration witnessed by the members of Congress, he inaugurated the world's first commercial telegraph. Morse relayed the message, "What hath God wrought?" The quote taken from Numbers 23:23 was very fitting considering how the first electronic message or email would transform the future of global communications.

Just a decade after the first line opened, more than 20,000 miles of telegraph cable crisscrossed the country. The rapid communication helped provide greatly to empower American expansion. Today, over 205 billion email messages are sent each day. As in the days of Samuel Morse, the Bible is still the most often quoted book in emails. Stay with us, friends. We're going to learn more on this edition of Bible Answers Live.

Announcer 1: You're listening to Bible Answers Live, honest answers to your Bible questions. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call (800) 835-6747. Once again, that's (800) 835-6747. Now, let's join our host, Pastor Doug Batchelor, and our co-host, Pastor Jëan Ross.

Pastor Doug: Welcome listening, friends to Bible Answers Live, and we are so thankful you're listening. If you weren't listening, you want to hear me say this? You can call in with your Bible questions. It's a free phone call. If you'd like an acronym it's 800-GOD-SAYS, call in with your Bible questions.

We're not only broadcasting on land-based radio stations, satellite radio, we're broadcasting on Facebook. If you want Facebook, you can even watch and listen. That would be the Amazing Facts Facebook page or the Doug Batchelor Facebook page, and send us or call in with your Bible questions. We've got some Bibles at our fingertips here. We'll do our best to search the word and find the answers. One time, (800) 463-7297 with your Bible questions. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening, friends. As we always do, let's start the program with a word of prayer. Dear father, we thank you that we have this time to open up your word and study the most important book that has to do with the most important subject that anyone could study, that of eternal life. We do pray for your blessing as we search the scriptures together in Jesus' name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Jëan: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about, well, something that we probably take for granted, just the simplicity of picking up your phone or sending a text message or an email and immediately being able to communicate with somebody around the world. It's just people are so used to that. Of course, think of all the emails that have been sent back and forth. It seems like businesses run on email communication. Yet you mentioned that even today when it comes to emails, the most often quoted book is the Bible. That was kind of interesting, surprising to me, but it's true.

Pastor Doug: People are always sending verses to each other, and they're quoting from the Bible in there. Everything from God is love or whatever their favorite verse is. Both Christians and even secular people might be quoting things like, "Turn the other cheek," or, "Go the second mile," or, "Cast the first stone."

Pastor Jëan: Or, "The handwriting's on the wall." [laughs]

Pastor Doug: Exactly. "By the skin of my teeth, at my wit's end."


There's a lot of quotes in the Bible. I didn't know were biblical until I read the Bible. It's fascinating to me the speed of communication right now that even as we're doing this, well, you and I, we've had phone calls from Australia, Africa all over the world live, and you just think about what Samuel Morse would have thought of that.

When he first developed his telegraph system, eventually it followed the train tracks across the country and it would connect what used to take days to get a message pony express, I think could do it in like five days from, where was it? St. Louis to Sacramento where we are, and then it was almost instantaneous with the, [morse code sounds]. You ever heard anybody do Morse code?

Pastor Jëan: Yes. When I was young, it was pretty popular. They used to learn Morse code for ham radio operation.

Pastor Doug: Exactly, yes. Now, the Bible tells us that in the last days, one of the signs of the end is that knowledge would increase. You can read about that in Daniel 12. It says, "But you Daniel," this is verse four, "Shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many will run to and fro and knowledge will increase." I remember when you'd send an email message and you had a phone modem, and it would dial in and go, [phone modem sounds]. [chuckles] You remember those days?

Pastor Jëan: Yes, sure do.

Pastor Doug: Then it would connect and it was so slow, but we were thrilled. We thought, 'This is great." Now, if you don't have fiber optic, you think it's the stone-age. One of the signs of the end is the increase in knowledge, and it is increasing in this generation exponentially. The Bible prophecy said that would happen. There are a lot more amazing secrets in the Bible that you might be surprised to learn. We have a free offer that talks about how you could better understand this book and the prophecies of the Bible.

Pastor Jëan: This free offer that we have is part of our amazing facts study guide series. Past today, this has been around for a number of years, but we get people calling us and contacting us literally around the world, telling us how they've been blessed by this Bible study series that looks at some of the most important Bible truths. This is the first lesson in the series of these study guides. It's called Is There Anything Left You Can Trust, that's about the Bible.

I think you'll find it, just it's filled with great, interesting, fascinating facts about the Bible. How do you study the Bible? Where did the Bible come from? It's free. All you'll have to do is call our resource phone line. That's (800) 835-6747, and ask for the study guide called Is There Anything Left You Can Trust?

While you're talking to the operator on the phone, you might also mention you're interested in the free Bible study course that amazing facts office, and they'll be able to sign you up. It's three. We'll be sending you the next in the series of these lessons and I think you'll be blessed. Again, just ask for, Is There Anything Left You Can Trust? The number is (800) 835-6747. All right. We got our first caller. We've got Chris listening in Florida. Chris, welcome to the program.

Chris: Thank you again, pastors. Good evening?

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Chris: I have a quick question about some Luke 7:35.

Pastor Doug: All right. I can read that. Matter of fact, I probably ought to read verse 34 just to give context. Some of the disciples of John the Baptist were saying-- Look, John the Baptist, he was fasting, he didn't drink wine, and you said, "He has a demon." The Son of man came eating and drinking. You say, "A glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners." This is Jesus speaking. He said, "But wisdom is justified by all of her children." Are you wondering what that means? Wisdom is justified by all of her children.

Chris: Yes. Correct.

Pastor Doug: By the way, you also find that verse in Matthew 11:19, it's almost word for word the same. Christ is just saying there that the wise people will understand these things, that they're going to understand the distinction between the ministry of John the Baptist and the ministry of Jesus. If people do not want to know because they're prejudiced against the ministry of Jesus, they're not going to understand. People that have the spirit of God, and one of the gifts of God's spirit is wisdom, if they're children of God, they will understand what is meant by that.

Pastor Jëan: I think another way of looking at that is you've heard the saying, "You'll know a tree by its fruit." Likewise, you'll know a teacher by his students. If you looked at what the disciples did, and their preaching and their teaching and their lives, it was a testimony to the teachings they received from Jesus. Jesus says, "Wisdom is justified by her children." You'll see the results of my teaching.

Pastor Doug: That's a good point. The fruit of them will be in their lives.

Chris: Thank you. Just one more quick question. The Geneva Bible, you know Reformation Bible?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Chris: How much different is it from other Bibles? I have a copy of Geneva Bible.

Pastor Doug: It's a great historic Bible. It uses some older archaic English. Of course, the message is the same. It was the Bible many of the Protestants read, one of the first English Bibles, but it can be difficult reading. I think I've got a copy too. Matter of fact, I probably have a copy on my computer, but hey, thank you very much, Chris. We appreciate your call.

Pastor Jëan: We do have a book called The Ultimate Resource, talks about the Bible, and it gives you more information about where the Bible came from and different translations. We'll send it to you for free if you call (800) 835-6747, and just ask for the book called The Ultimate Resource. Our next caller is Daniel, he's listening in Michigan. Daniel welcome to the program.

Daniel: Hello, Pastors Doug and Pastor Jëan?

Pastor Doug: Yes, and your question tonight?

Daniel: Yes, I had a question about Isaiah 24, which is supposed to show the earth is empty and desolate during the 1000 years except for the devil and his angels which are left on the earth. I have a few verses I'd like to read. In verse 6:24 says, "The inhabitants of the earth are burned and few men are left." In verse seven it says, "All the merry-hearted sigh." In verse nine it says, "They shall not drink wine with a song, strong drink is bitter to those who drink it."

In verse 10 it says, "Every house is shut up, and no-one may go in." Verse 11, "A cry for wine in the streets and all joy is darkened." Verse 13 says, "When it shall be thus in the midst of the land among the people." Then verse 14, "They shall lift up their voice and sing, and they shall cry aloud from the sea." I'm just confused, maybe I'm reading it wrong, or maybe I'm missing something here but it sounds like there's still people on earth?

Pastor Doug: Most of chapter 24 in Isaiah is talking about what would happen. Isaiah also foretold the destruction of Jerusalem under the Babylonians, and what you just read there is a perfect description of that. There's also a period of time when the earth is completely desolate. Have you read in Jeremiah 4:23?

Daniel: I think I had Jeremiah?

Pastor Doug: What your reading in Isaiah here, he's making a prophecy. Isaiah lived before the Babylonian destruction, Jeremiah lived during it. I think that what happened to Jerusalem during the Babylonian destruction, they burnt the city, they burnt the temple, they burnt the walls, was an allegory of what will also happen in the last days.

If you look in Jeremiah 4:23, it says, "I beheld the earth and indeed it was without form and void, and the heavens and they had no light. I beheld the mountains and they trembled, and all the hills moved back and forth. I beheld indeed there was no man and all the birds of heaven were fled. I beheld indeed in the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and by his fierce anger." That to me I think is a pretty clear scripture that there's no man.

Where's the verse where Isaiah says the earth is turned upside down, it's utterly empty. He also says that the slain of the Lord cover the earth and there's no one to bury or lament them, no one to bury or lament them. There's several verses that describe a time when the earth is basically vacated, but we have a lesson, Daniel, it's a good question. We have a lesson we'd be happy to send you that has that verse, the verses we gave you, and many others on the subject of the millennium. Did you find one of those Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan: There's actually several of them. Isaiah 26:21. It says, "For behold, the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity. The earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain." You have these different-- sort of interwoven in Isaiah's prophecy concerning judgment coming upon Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

There are also pictures or at least threads referring to a future time of judgment that occurs at the Second Coming of Christ. You got to take what Isaiah says and put that together with some of the other prophecies in Jeremiah. Of course, if you're going to the New Testament, then you see how these different verses connect together.

Pastor Doug: The lesson on the millennium, we should send Daniel.

Pastor Jëan: Yes, it's called 1000 Years of Peace, and we'd be happy to send this to anyone who calls and asks. The number is (800) 835-6747 and ask for the study guide called, 1000 Years of Peace.

Announcer 1: You want to know God's plan for our world and solutions for your life's challenges? Beautifully re-designed, amazing facts, 27 Bible study-guides, providing encouraging Bible-based answers to questions on healthier relationships, when Jesus will return, and much more. Prefer to watch while you read? Our brand new Prophecy Encounters DVD series makes the perfect companion set. Order your study guides and DVDs today by visiting, or by calling (800) 538-7275.

Pastor Jëan: We have Jerry listening in Oregon. Jerry, welcome to the program.

Jerry: Good evening, Pastors-

Pastor Jëan: Evening.

Jerry: -John, Doug. Pastor, before I get started, I'd like to mention you have a video called Is Hell a Place of Eternal Torment? You told a story where you had a debate with a radio pastor. Do you want me to mention his name now deceased?

Pastor Doug: Well, if you want.

Jerry: Pardon me?

Pastor Doug: You don't need to, but you can if you want to. What's your question about the debate?

Jerry: Well, you mentioned that you had a debate with this man and he was a proponent of the traditional view. I would like to mention, I listened to him about three years before his death, and he had changed his position completely on that. He'd now agreed with you--

Pastor Doug: You're right, he had. You're right, he did change his position. My experience took place 25, 30 years ago because he's been on the radio or he was on the radio for 40 years or more. You're right, he did change his position.

Jerry: I got that impression. Some people called in and asked him why he had. I just thought you'd like to know that, but my question pertains to 1 Corinthians 15:25-28, in it concerns the Trinity. Do you want to read that or shall I read that?

Pastor Doug: I can read it. 1 Corinthians 15:25, "For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet, the last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For He has put all things under His feet, but when he says, "'All things are put under Him,' it is evident that He who put all things under Him is accepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all," and your question on that?

Jerry: Well, yes, it's certainly saying that Jesus at the end-time will be under God, so how can He be co-equal with Him?

Pastor Doug: You can have one party submit to another party and still have equality in value. Now, I have always believed that there seems to be a sequence of authority given in the Bible between the father, son, and spirit. You and I probably agree, that there's a distinction of roles. Jesus says, "God so loved the world, God the Father, so loved the world He gave the son," so the Father is doing the giving. The Bible says, "God, the Father created all things through Christ the Son." Yet, the Bible says, "In the beginning, God made the heaven and the earth." The son must still be God. Do you believe that Jesus is God?

Jerry: I'm sorry, did you say, "Do I believe Jesus is God?" Is that your question?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Jerry: We have a very poor connection on this end. I think it's a very confusing topic. I can make points one way or the other and cite many Bible texts to support it.

Pastor Doug: Well, I would agree that the Bible says God is a big subject and in many ways, His ways are higher than our ways, but I think it's pretty clearly revealed in the Bible when you look at some of the primary definitions of God that Jesus has the characteristics. I put you on hold, just because we're getting static too. Jesus fills the definitions.

The Bible says God is our Saviour, it says Jesus is our Saviour. The Bible says, only God knows the thoughts of men's hearts, yet Jesus knew the thoughts of men's hearts. The Bible tells us we should only worship God, but we're told we can worship Jesus, and God created all things, the Bible says Jesus created all things. When you start going through the different definitions of God, Jesus fits them all. Now I don't know if you've read the book that we have on the subject of the Trinity, but we'll be happy to send you that book. It's One God or Three, questions on the Trinity.

Pastor Jëan: All you'll have to do is to call our resource line, that's (800) 835-6747. I'm looking at the book right here on my computer, it's called The Trinity. Just ask for the book on the Trinity, we'll be happy to send it out to anyone who calls and asks. Next call that we have is Connie listening in Oregon. Connie, welcome to the program.

Connie: Hi, Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross. I'm sitting here with my girlfriend Suzie, and she has a question.

Suzie: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Suzie. [chuckels]

Suzie: [chuckles] Good evening. In 1 Peter 4 and it's 18-20, but basically, in verse 19, some clarification would be really nice because I'd like to know if Jesus went and preached to the spirits in the prison? Are we talking about what spirits, and what is the prison, and why is he preaching to them? That's my question.

Pastor Doug: All right, and this is a verse that has confused some people. Let's start with verse 18, and this is 1 Peter 3:18. "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit." Now the emphasis here is the spirit that makes alive. That's the subject of this paragraph.

"By whom," through the Spirit, "He, Jesus went and preached to the spirits," spirits small 'S' there, "Meets people in prison, those who are imprisoned by sin, who formerly were disobedient. When once the divine long-suffering waited in the days of Noah." Now let's pause right here. It's saying the spirit preached to people who are imprisoned by sin, they were disobedient in the days of Noah. If you pause and you go to Genesis 6:3, it talks about where God says, "My spirit will not always strive with man. Yet his days--" I think it's Genesis 6:3.

Pastor Jëan: Yes, Genesis 6:3.

Pastor Doug: You want to read the whole verse?

Pastor Jëan: It says, "The Lord said, my Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he is indeed flesh, yet his days shall be 120 years."

Pastor Doug: Okay. It's talking about people that lived back in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared in which few, that is eight souls, were saved by water. It's not saying that Jesus died and He went to hell somewhere and He started preaching to people who were in prison. The Bible says after a man dies, then there's judgment. It's appointed unto man, one's to die and after this the judgment. We don't get to hear the gospel again after we're dead. That goes in the face of everything else in the Bible.

It's describing what happened back. By the way, you read on in that verse, he starts talking about baptism. He's saying the whole world was baptized back in the days of Noah, that Noah and his family were saved through water, similar to how we are saved through baptism and filled with the Spirit. The emphasis is Christ was anointed. He was filled with the Spirit at His baptism. It was the same Spirit that brought him back to life and that same Spirit gives us new life. I hope that helps. Does that make sense?

Suzie: Yes, that's very good. Thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: All right, thanks. Appreciate your question.

Pastor Jëan: The next caller that we have is Louis listening from San Diego. Louis, welcome to the program.

Louis: Good evening, pastors. I pray for you every evening, and I appreciate this show. I have a quick question and interestingly, about the Trinity, or the Godhead as well. I do believe that the Godhead, each one, each member is God. That's not a question in my mind. The interesting question is I recently had a thought of praying to the Holy Spirit, saying Holy Spirit come and fill me.

Well, I just recently had a conversation with a pastor, he said, "Well, we should be praying to God and not the Holy Spirit, and not even to Jesus." For example, what we should be doing is praying to God for the Holy Spirit. Praying to God that the Holy Spirit would fill us with the presence of Christ and the Father in our hearts. I'm interested to know, is that not appropriate to pray to the Holy Spirit or to Jesus, and that we should only pray directly, first, to the Father?

Pastor Doug: I don't think that God faults anybody if they were to extend a prayer to the Holy Spirit. God doesn't really want us to pray to angels, but we know there are angels that are helping answer God's prayer. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to pray to our angels. We really go to God the Father in Christ's name, and we pray in the Spirit.

There's one example I can think of where someone prayed to Jesus, and that's when Stephen was being stoned. He said, "Lord, Jesus, receive my spirit." The end of the Bible says, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Most prayers are addressed to the Father. Pastor Ross, you may know a place in the Bible where there may be a place where someone prays to the spirit, I can't think of any offhand.

Pastor Jëan: Yes, I don't think of a direct prayer where someone's addressing the Holy Spirit, but there's examples where you're asking for the Holy Spirit. Jesus, of course, says, "Ask and you will be given the gift of the Holy Spirit." You ask the Father in the name of Jesus, that's the pattern that we see in the Bible.

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps a little bit. Now, we do have a book that talks about life in the spirit, and we'll be happy to send you a copy of that, Louis if you call the resource number.

Pastor Jëan: The number is (800) 835-6747. Again, ask for the book called Life In the Spirit.

Pastor Doug: I take it back. The book that he would especially enjoy is The Holy Spirit, The Need.

Pastor Jëan: Okay, The Holy Spirit, The Need is the name of the book. We might have same book, we just changed the name?

Pastor Doug: It's not. It's a new book.

Pastor Jëan: It's a new book. Okay. Again, (800) 835-6747, you can ask for the new book called The Holy Spirit, The Need. We have Christian listening in Manhattan, New York. Christian, welcome to the program.

Christian: Yes. Good evening, and thank you for taking my call. I just have a question here that in Romans 15:24 and 28, Paul talks about going to Rome on his way to Spain. Is there any evidence that Paul ever made it to Spain?

Pastor Doug: That's a great question. Paul certainly had the desire to go to Spain. If you go to Spain, I was there last year with my wife, maybe it was even this year, time flies, they believe very much he came there. There's not a lot of tangible evidence, but Paul went to some places that no letters may have survived that he wrote from these places or to these places. It's entirely possible that after he was released his first imprisonment under Nero, he was ultimately released.

He indicated he wanted to go to Spain, it's not that far from Rome to take a boat across the Mediterranean to Spain. He may have gone and done some ministry there and come back again. We don't know. All we can do and I look at the Bible commentaries, they can say he may have, it wouldn't have been a long trip because he never references it again, but we don't know. It's hard for us to know that for sure. Hey, thank you very much, Christian. I hope that helps a little bit.

Pastor Jëan: Well, Pastor Doug, I'm looking at the clock and we're coming up on a break here in just a few minutes.

Pastor Doug: I don't want to start up on another question and then cut them off halfway through the break. We always like to remind people at this point, that there's so much more material that they can listen to on the Amazing Facts website if you just type in. I was just in a car with a friend and he said, "What's amazing facts?" I said, "Type it in." He found it right away, typed in Amazing Facts, or just type in Amazing Facts Ministry and you'll see that we have videos, YouTube channels, Facebook channels, archive programs like this. We've had 20 years of programs like this.

Pastor Jëan: Pastor Doug, let me just quickly add also that we do have an app. It's the Amazing Facts app that a person can download on their phone, and you can get our videos, even archived or Bible Answers Live. It's all there. You just look it up. It's just Amazing Facts app in the App Store.

Pastor Doug: Amen. There'll be a lot of information there, and then link these things to your friends. Now, we do still have some lines open. If you want to give us a call with your Bible question, the best half of the program is about to happen. We got some brief station identification, that number is (800) 463-7297. Give us a call with your questions.


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Every Bible question you have answered moves you one step closer to the fullness of God's will for your life. What are you waiting for? Get the answers you need for a fuller, richer, more confident life. You're listening to Bible Answers Live. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible-related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7:00 PM and 8:00 PM Pacific Time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call (800) 835-6747. Once again, that's (800) 835-6747. Now let's join Pastors Doug Batchelor and Jëan Ross for more Bible Answers Live.

Pastor Doug: Hello, listening friends. If you've joined us along the way, this is Bible Answers Live and we invite you to call in with your Bible questions. You heard the number (800) 463-7297. We don't want to dilly-dally, so we're going to get back to the phone. Pastor Ross.

Pastor Jëan: We've got Darryl listening in Phoenix, Arizona. Darryl, welcome to the program.

Daryl: Hello Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Ross. I appreciate you guys.

Pastor Doug: Thank you.

Daryl: Thank you. I just had a question as to graven images and whether or not a cross is a graven image.

Pastor Doug: Good question. The Bible does not have a command against making an image. People often read that, they say thou shall not make an image of anything in the heaven above, the earth beneath, the water under the earth may stop, so you shouldn't make any image, it's a sin. There are some churches that will come around, knock on your door two by two, and if you had a painting on the wall of one of your kids or a flower, they say that's an image and technically it is.

The Bible says do not make images and bow down to them and serve them because God told the children of Israel to actually have images of pomegranates and figs in the temple. They had angels engraved on the walls. A matter of fact, there were two images of angels on the ark. It wasn't the idea of making an image, they were not to make something and bow down to it.

Now, if a person has a cross on a church, that doesn't mean that it's idolatry but I've been to crosses before at sacred shrines where it's a big concrete cross or whatever it is of gold, and people go up and they burn candles and they pray before it and that's idolatry. Do you see the distinction I'm making there?

Daryl: Yes, I do.

Pastor Doug: If there's a cross on a building, that doesn't mean that that's an idol. It may just be a logo that explains this is a Christian church, or if you see a cross on a grave. Typically, you go through a military cemetery and there is either a cross or a Jewish star or the Muslim symbol there on the grave. It's just identified as a logo what their religion was. That's not an idol, but if someone's praying before one of those things or worshipping, never wanting to touch it and think there's any virtue in it and that it's mystical, that's idolatry.

Daryl: Got it.

Pastor Doug: Thank you very much, great question.

Pastor Jëan: Next caller that we have is Harold listening from Texas. Harold, welcome to the program.

Harold: Hi, Pastor Doug. I just want to know the difference between a ceremonial and ritual law.

Pastor Doug: Well, many of the ceremonial laws are also ritual laws. When you look at the laws, basically, there are different laws that are outlined by Moses as he's going through Exodus and Leviticus mostly. He sometimes mingles together the ceremonial, ritual laws, the health laws, and the civil laws. I think I'm leaving some.

Pastor Jëan: Moral law.

Pastor Doug: Moral law, 10 commandments, yes. What's the difference between ritual and ceremonial? Some of the ceremonial laws didn't have a ritual connected with it, but they're still ceremonial laws.

Pastor Jëan: A lot of the laws connect with the sanctuary fell into the category of both ceremonial as well as ritual because it became the fabric and the culture of Israel. It was something that was passed on from family to family that was connected with the sanctuary or with one of the feasts that they were involved with.

Pastor Doug: Yes, some of the ceremonial laws had to do with cleanliness, but that was not technically a ritual. A ritual would be one of the feasts is what you would call a ritual. There is a minor distinction there. I don't know if that helps at all, Harold?

Harold: Yes, a little bit. Okay.

Pastor Doug: We do have a book we can send you that talks about Does God's Grace Blot Out the Law and talks about the ceremonial and the moral law and that might be helpful. We'll send you a free copy of that.

Harold: Okay, sure.

Pastor Jëan: All you'll need to do is call and ask. The book is simply called Does God's Grace Blot Out the Law? The number is (800) 835-6747. Again, just ask for that book called Does God's Grace Blot Out the Law? Next caller that we have is Stanford listening from New York. Stanford, welcome to the program.

Stanford: Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's my first time on the show and I must tell you that I see you on the internet and I know that the word is being preached.

Pastor Doug: Well, thank you so much.

Stanford: Yes, the word is being preached. My question is, I've been struggling with this and I do want to understand. I won't take much of your time, maybe a few minutes like three, two minutes. It said in Genesis 49:8, I want to know, Jacob is blessed and his son, but when he came to Judah, there was a special pronouncement upon Judah.

Just to sum it up really quick. The part I want to understand is this. Verse 10, it said, 49:10 it said, "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to him shall be the obedience of the people." Why was there a special blessing upon Judah and not upon Zebulun or Naphtali?

Pastor Doug: Yes, good question. When Jacob is blessing his sons, he goes farther in blessing Judah which is interesting. Judah is not the firstborn, is not the last born. He's not even born of Rachel, the wife he loved. He's born of Leah. I think he's the fourth of Leah, but Judah is the one through whom Jesus would come. That's why it says a lawgiver. The kings were typically the lawgivers.

David was from the tribe of Judah, and David had several of his ancestors that ended up being kings. Whereas the other tribes of Israel, they had several different tribes that killed each other off and you never knew who the next king was going to be. The sons of David stayed on the throne of Judah, the southern kingdom for hundreds of years. Ultimately, Jesus came from the tribe of Judah. Something else that's interesting, Judah was the son--

In our church, we're going through the book of Genesis and reading about Joseph. Judah was the son who wanted to sell Joseph as a slave, but then Judah was converted and he is the son who later offers himself in Joseph's place. He says, "Take me." He becomes a sacrifice to try to redeem Benjamin and to offer himself. Judah went through a real change. It's interesting right in the middle of the story of Joseph, it stops and starts talking about Judah and his family tree, not the other tribes because Jesus would come through the tribe of Judah. It's a great study.

Stanford: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you very much, we appreciate your question, Stanford.

Pastor Jëan: Next caller that we have is Becky listening in Michigan. Becky, welcome to the program.

Becky: Hello, Pastor Doug and Pastor Jëan. How are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Doing good and your question tonight.

Becky: I have a question in Proverbs 3:24-26.

Pastor Doug: It says, "When you lie down, you will not be afraid. Yes, when you lie down your sleep will be sweet. Do not be afraid of sudden terror nor of the trouble from the wicked when it comes. For the Lord will be your confidence and He will keep your foot from being caught." Now, what's your question on those verses?

Becky: What is the meaning of-- Sometimes I mark my Bible, and I came across this a long time ago and sometimes I get nightmares. I have bad dreams. I get nightmares at night time. I want to know from the Christian point of view, what is the meaning of it?

Pastor Doug: Yes, well, this is part of a promise that God is making. You'll notice earlier in the chapter, he's talking about, "My son, keep my commandments and follow wisdom." That's in verse 13. "Happy is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding, for her proceeds are better than profits of silver, and her grain than fine gold." Solomon is saying that if we have Biblical wisdom and if we obey God's commandments, he gives us a peace. The Bible calls it a peace that passes understanding. When Jesus is in our heart, he's called the Prince of Peace and He can help you sleep more sweetly at night.

Pastor Jëan: Usually somebody that is worried or doing something illegal, pretty much it's hard for them to have peace and rest. They're worried, looking over their shoulder worrying about somebody reporting something.

Pastor Doug: Their conscience is bothering.

Pastor Jëan: Their conscience is bothering. Here, it says, "Those who are right with God, they can have peace." It doesn't mean you'll never have a bad night or a bad dream, but it means there is a broader peace that the followers of Christ have. That the world does not have.

Pastor Doug: Does that help a little, Becky?

Becky: Yes, it did.

Pastor Doug: Okay, we hope you have that peace. Thank you for your call.

Pastor Jëan: We got Catherine listening from Virginia. Catherine, welcome to the program.

Catherine: Thank you. I have a question about The Book of Enoch. I have a young son that's 24 that has recently read some of it and said he felt like it shared something like-- we use the King James Version. He wants me to take a look at it. I told him that I would, but I'm assuming that there's a reason why it's not part of the Bible. Do you know what that is?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Catherine: I don't know anything about the book. I know it was supposedly written by the prophet Enoch, the 7th from Adam.

Pastor Doug: Yes, The Book of Enoch, it's very doubtful. It was written by Enoch, the actual ancestor of Noah, because you'd have to think, "Well, that book somehow survived the flood and Noah kept it, Noah passed it on and somehow it survived Abraham's wanderings." During the Babylonian captivity, there was somebody who wrote The Book of Enoch, and it's like among English speakers, we've got a famous Christian book called Pilgrim's Progress, you've heard of that?

Catherine: Right, I have.

Pastor Doug: Great book, full of inspiration. It's not part of the Bible, but it's got some great allegories in it, it's a lead a lot of people to the Lord. Well, during the Babylonian captivity, a devout Jew wrote a book called The Book of Enoch, and every Jew knew it wasn't written by Enoch, but there was a statement in there that I think, is it--

Pastor Jëan: Jude.

Pastor Doug: Jude quotes for us.

Pastor Jëan: Yes, Verse 14. It says now this is Jude 1:14, now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied against these men also saying, "Behold the Lord comes with 10,000 of his saints to execute judgment upon all." It's referring to this passage that you find in The Book of Enoch.

Pastor Doug: Now, it is possible, Catherine, that Enoch uttered those words and they were passed down orally just like Moses got words that were passed down orally from Adam and Eve, and that the Babylonian author was incorporating that in his book. See what I'm saying, and so Jude quotes from that.

Catherine: It's not anything--

Pastor Doug: I don't believe The Book of Enoch should be included in the scriptures because there's some other things in there that are a little fishy. [chuckles]

Catherine: Okay. Okay, all right.

Pastor Jëan: If you look at how the books of the Bible were assembled, at least the Old Testament, they had to have a trustworthy source, and pretty much the Old Testament was already established by the time of Christ. In the New Testament, the criteria for having your letter included in the New Testament was you needed to be an eyewitness of Jesus, so the disciples. The only exception to that would be Paul, but Jesus did meet Paul on the road to Emmaus or Damascus.

Then you also needed to have a track record meaning that the authorship of the letter was agreed upon by multiple different churches or church groups. If there was somebody who wrote a book and they said, "I'm inspired and this book needs to be part of the New Testament," and you couldn't verify the author, well, that was not included.

Catherine: Well, that makes perfect sense. I felt like if the Lord wanted it in there, it would have been in there but I basically was trying to find out if it was anything bad that you shouldn't read, that's what I was trying to find out, but you explained it.

Pastor Doug: Yes, I don't think for some historical interest it might be interesting, but I wouldn't read it treating it any more biblically than I would the Pilgrim's Progress or another inspirational allegory.

Catherine: Okay. Well, thank you, that sheds a lot of light on it. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Thanks so much, appreciate your question.

Catherine: Bye-bye.

Pastor Doug: Bye-bye.

Pastor Jëan: Next caller that we have is Monty listening in Ohio. Monty, welcome to the program.

Monty: Hello, pastors, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Doing great, appreciate your call.

Monty: This is a little deeper question maybe, but it's on topology in Corinthians 10:11, Isaiah 46:9-10, and Colossians 1:9, topology is clearly endorsed. I think you would agree that the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24 came to an end in 34 AD. It was the true church leaders or the leaders of the true church at that time that demanded the death of Christ on the cross. I'm wondering in light of John 16:2 where it says they will kill you thinking they do God a service. Do you think that history will repeat itself in that fashion?

Pastor Doug: Will there be Apostasy in the church? Yes.

Monty: Well, there's Apostasy in the church now.

Pastor Doug: Will there be persecution from within? Yes.

Monty: Do you think that the true leaders are the leaders of the true church? I'm just not going to identify that true church obviously, but we know there's those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus and have the faith of Jesus. Do you think that it will come to a point--

I know that the gates of hell will not prevail against God's church but we are the building of God according to Corinthians 3:9? The people of God are the true church, not the organization. Do you think that it's a distinct possibility that the true church and you know who I'm talking about, will be the ones who persecute?

Pastor Doug: Yes, I know who you're talking about. You're wondering, do I think it's possible that loyal Christians in leadership can persecute believers within their own family? It happened the days of Jesus with the disciples when they went to the temple, and I think history can repeat itself. Matter of fact, I think history has repeated itself already. Many times through history, there are people who find their way into leadership, even in Jesus, among the 12 apostles, you've got Judas who is persecuting Mary. "Who wasted all this money?"

You got someone who's technically in Jesus' leadership who's not converted, who's persecuting someone else. In Abraham's own family, Hagar and Ishmael were persecuting Isaac. This family-friendly fire, not so friendly-fire, I think it's going to repeat itself in the last days. Of course, people that are persecuting, people that get into a church organization that may be genuine, you're going to have true and false, wheat and tares everywhere, so yes, there'll no doubt be persecution. Some of our greatest adversaries in the last days will be those who once stood with us.

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Pastor Jëan: Next caller that we have is Linda listening from I think Oklahoma. Linda, welcome to the program.

Linda: Good evening, Pastors.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Linda: I had a question about, okay, I know there's only one God, one Father, and then the Holy Ghost. Why is it that the Catholic Church calls their priests the Father?

Pastor Doug: Well, of course, they're using the term in a spiritual sense. I'm sure they know that it doesn't mean that the priest is the daddy of the people. Jesus does say, "Call no man father for you have one Father in heaven."

Pastor Jëan: Matthew 23:19.

Pastor Doug: They do it I guess typically because the person is supposed to be a spiritual leader, a spiritual parent. Paul said to Timothy, "You're my child in the faith," and so I think they point to these Scriptures. Then just the Commandment of Jesus said, we probably shouldn't be calling any spiritual leader father, and so I think that's where Protestants feel safer to stick to that. As far as I know, that's the reason that our Catholic friends use that terminology. I'm a Pastor, but when I'm talking to another priest, I don't call him father, I call him brother which some friars go by the term brother.

Linda: Yes, because I know they tell their sins and their stuff to the priests, aren't we supposed to go straight to God to have Him forgive us of our sins? They go through a--

Pastor Doug: Yes, absolutely. God is the one we sinned against, ultimately, and He's the one who must forgive. Now if I offend a brother or sister, I go to them and say, "Will you forgive me?" People cannot forgive our mortal sins. It's just God that can do that and nowhere are we told to go to God through a man, we're to go to God through Christ. We can go directly before the throne through Jesus, our mediator. There is one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus. That's not biblical to do that. Thank you, Linda.

Pastor Jëan: Next caller that we have is Dwight listening from I think it's Alabama. Dwight, welcome to the program.

Dwight: Yes, thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Dwight: My question is, I've heard that in 1888 that it was righteousness by faith that Johnson Wagner and that Christ could obtain then, but I'm thinking about the wound had not been healed yet and other prophecies.

Pastor Jëan: Yes, just to add to that a little bit for our folks who might be wondering, 1888, who's Johnson Wagner? Well, it's interesting if you look at some of the Protestant churches that grew out of the early 1800s that culminated in what we call the Millerite Movement in 1844. There were a series of messages or trues that came to the world. Some of the different individuals that God used to bring that message of truth, as you mentioned, Johnson Wagner.

Of course, we need to test everybody's teaching by the word of God, that is our ultimate test of all things, and then of course we do have prophecies as you mentioned in the Bible which both Revelation and Daniel speak of needing to be fulfilled. For example, Jesus said, "In this Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to all the world as a witness unto all nations, then the end will come." Some people did not fully understand these prophecies or at least recognize their importance as it fits into end-time events. Folks have different views or different perspectives on when Jesus will come.

Pastor Doug: There is some beliefs that-- Christ says in Matthew 24:14, "The gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world, then the end will come." If people had embraced righteousness by faith, the way it was preached during this great revival in the 1880s, some have speculated that Jesus could have come because the gospel would have gone to the world.

Pastor Jëan: With power.

Pastor Doug: We're still waiting because the gospel has a long way to go in some countries. Who's next, Pastor Ross. We got a couple more questions we can do. We got Jean listening from Wisconsin. Jean, welcome to the program.

Jean: Hey, good evening, pastors. How are you doing tonight?

Pastor Doug: Great.

Jean: I have probably a real simplistic speculative question here. Why do you believe that God works in a dimension that's not visible as well as the angels and of course the demons that are on the planet? Why do you believe that He does not allow us to see perhaps the angels working or why can't we see that realm?

Pastor Doug: That's a good question and I'm glad you're asking. It's not that simplistic. In the beginning, I believe man could see there's a whole another realm. Man had whatever spiritual equipment he needed to be tuned into the frequency of the spiritual realm. After sin, something physically, something spiritually happened to man. Man could not see God in His glory and he couldn't see the angels unless they did something special to appear.

We went along for over 5,000 years not knowing about television waves or radio waves or cosmic rays. We know now that there's all kinds of things happening in and around us because we've just gained knowledge. I think when we get to heaven, we're going to realize that there is a perfectly scientific reason why people could not see the spiritual realm in our sinful condition. We didn't have the equipment. Now, we're surrounded by devices that are picking up invisible messages. [chuckles] You think about how much more we're going to know in a thousand years.

Once we thought that the whole universe was just the sun and the moon, and now we know there's the whole solar system with planets and the whole galaxy, and our Milky Way galaxy is one galaxy of 200 billion suns and it goes on and on from there. I heard a TED talk this week that they think there are other universes, that ours is just one universe, and then say, it just goes on and on. There's so much we don't know and I think that's why--

Pastor Jëan: Just to add to that, if let's just say angels did appear and there are cases you read about in the Bible and even some testimony of people even today where they feel as though an angel did appear to them and bring them a message. Even if our eyes were open and we could see the unseen, the angels both good and bad, I don't think it'll make that much of a difference in convicting someone of the need for a savior.

I'll give you an example. When Jesus was on the earth, He performed some incredible miracles and yet, it still didn't convince the religious leaders to turn to Christ, even the resurrecting of Lazarus from the dead. They still refused. If there was some miracle that God could perform to get everyone's attention, He'd probably do that, but would it result in people genuinely being converted? Probably not. It has to be the moving of the Holy Spirit and it needs to be faith. Without faith, it's impossible to please God.

Pastor Doug: Absolutely. I don't know if that helps at all, Jean?

Jean: Yes, you did. Actually, you answered it fairly quickly and very thoroughly. I appreciate that, pastors. You two have a great evening.

Pastor Doug: All right. Thanks so much for your call. What do you think Pastor Ross? Can we do one quick question?

Pastor Jëan: Yes, let's try. We've got Donna in Chattanooga, Tennessee. We have about a minute, Donna.

Donna: Well, my question is very simple. I've always wondered what it means by marriage and giving in marriage. Of course, I know what marriage is, but giving in marriage, what does that mean?

Pastor Doug: Pastor Ross and I performed several weddings and sometimes just at the beginning of the actual ceremony, the bride walks in and she stands next to her father and some cases her mother, and you say, "Who gives this woman to this man?" As an ancient tradition, it used to be families were saying, "We support this union," and the parents basically, and the bride would kiss her father after that.

Basically, he's saying, I've been your protector and now your husband is your protector. That's where that terminology comes from. It's beautiful, but it's an ancient custom. Parents used to arrange all these marriages like Abraham did for Isaac. It's like, who gives this man to this woman, who gives this woman to this man, and so forth?

Donna: It just never made sense to me and I thought marriage and giving in marriage, I figured they were the same thing.

Pastor Doug: Marriage and arrangement of marriages when they say someone was given in marriage.

Donna: Well, thank you. You answered my question. I can go to sleep now.

Pastor Doug: You sleep peacefully. Thank you, Donna. They tell us wherever where we go, we help people fall asleep.

Pastor Jëan: [laughs]

Pastor Doug: Hey listening friends, go to our website, we'll talk next week.



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