Running the Christian Race

Scripture: John 14:21-23, Revelation 4:1-11, Zechariah 14:1-21
Date: 12/14/2014 
In 1983, a 61 year old sheep and potato farmer named Cliff Young decided to participate in the world's toughest race, a 544 mile ultra marathon from Melbourne to Sydney, Australia.
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Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello friends, this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? In 1983, a 61 year old sheep and potato farmer named Cliff Young decided to participate in the world's toughest race, a 544 mile ultra marathon from Melbourne to Sydney, Australia. When the 150 world-class athletes gathered at the starting line, they were amused to see old Cliff enter the race wearing overalls with galoshes over his boots.

As soon as the race started, the pros quickly left Cliff shuffling behind. Spectators were hoping someone would stop the crazy old man before he hurt himself but the old farmer kept plodding along. Normally, the contenders run about 18 hours and sleep 6 hours during the 7 day race. The thing is, no one told Cliff he was supposed to stop and sleep. So while the other runners slept, he kept on running, gaining on the pack a little more each day.

By the last night, he passed all the world class athletes. By the last day, he was way out in front of them. incredibly, not only did Cliff run the Melbourne to Sydney race at age 61 without dying, he won first place, breaking the record by 9 hours and becoming a national hero. When asked how he can run all night, Cliff said, "See, I grew up on a farm where we couldn't afford horses and whenever the storms would roll in, I'd have to go out on foot and round up the sheep. We had 2,000 head and sometimes, I'd have to run those sheep for 2 or 3 days nonstop."

Throughout the race, he just kept imagining that he was chasing sheep, trying to outrun a storm. When Cliff was awarded the first prize and $10,000, he said he didn't know there was a prize and insisted they split it among the other lead runners. The nation fell in love with the 61-year-old vegetarian who came out of nowhere to defeat the world's best long distance runners. His secret was to run while others were sleeping. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Well, listening friends, we are glad you are listening. This is Bible Answers Live and if you have a Bible question, that's what this program is all about. You can call in with your Bible question now, we have lines open, several lines open. And the number, free phone call, 800-GOD-SAYS, that's 800-463-7297. One more, give you a chance to grab your pencil, calling in with your Bible question, 800-463-7297. Good time to pick up your phone and give us a call to get your question on tonight's program. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends, Pastor Doug. Let's begin the program with prayer. Father, once again, as we start this program, we want to ask a special blessing. We know that in order to understand the Bible, we need the leading of the Holy Spirit so be with us here in this studio and be with those who are listening, wherever they might be. We ask this in Jesus' name, Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program with really, a remarkable story. A 61 year old who ran more than 500 miles and I find it interesting, he didn't even realize that there was a $10,000 prize for first place which of course he got and yet he did it for the joy of running.

Pastor Doug: It's just amazing. He thought, "Well, I heard they got a race going all this distance from Melbourne to Sydney." His farm they grew up on was outside Melbourne. He thought, "I think I'll enter that race." I also thought that it was interesting, he was vegetarian. But the real spiritual lesson here that goes along with what you find in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 9:24-25, Paul here says, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you might obtain it." Makes me think of Cliff when everyone else was bedding down for the night, he thought, "Well, I'm just not going to catch up unless I just keep on going."

I used to work as a security guard. After working in one job all day, then I had to be a security guard and I had almost no sleep. Sometimes, you just get so tired trying to stay awake when you know you can't go to sleep. It's a real battle and trying to run all night when you're that tired is really phenomenal that he was able to do that. I don't know if he sat down, took some cat naps when he had his little meals along the road but somehow he just kept plodding and going and going till he passed them all up.

Makes me also think about that statement in the Bible where Jesus said that, "We want to be on our guard, don't want to be found sleeping when the master comes." In the same way, Cliff refused to sleep when others were sleeping so he got the prize. Sometimes we all need a little encouragement not to give in so easy, not to give up so easy. When you make the decision to be a Christian, a lot of people have made that decision but then like the seed sown in the stony ground, eventually the worries of life or the temptations choke the seed and we need to be persistent and say, "Lord, by Your grace I'm going to press on."

We have a lesson to encourage you in your walk with Jesus. Once you take up the race and once you begin to follow him, you don't stop and you don't turn back. Tell us about that, Pastor Ross.

Pastor Ross: Study guide is entitled No Turning Back. I like the picture on the front cover. It's a skydiver jumping out of the plane. Well, the moment he lets go and jumps, there is no turning back and for the Christian, we make that decision to follow Jesus, we want to make sure that we don't turn back. So we'll send that to you for free if you call our resource line. The number is 800-835-6747. Again, that number is 800-835-6747. That is the resource line. If you have a Bible question, the number to call is 800-463-7297. Pastor Doug, our first caller this evening is, Apostle, listening from Queens, New York. Apostle, welcome to the program.

Apostle: Good evening Pastor Doug, Jëan Ross, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Doing well, thank you for calling.

Pastor Ross: Doing good.

Apostle: My question is in Revelation 12:9, it says that Satan was hurled to the earth or cast down the earth. What was he doing in this heavenly council in Job 1:6?

Pastor Doug: What you're asking about, first of all, Revelation 12 but you're wanting to know what was he doing in Job 1:6?

Apostle: Yes. If he was cast down the way it says in Revelation 12:9, why was he at this heavenly meeting?

Pastor Doug: Well, first of all, of course, Revelation is written after Job. Job is probably the first book in the Bible. Being cast out of heaven doesn't necessarily mean that the devil couldn't leave earth. Job doesn't tell us where this meeting takes place. It just says there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them.

The Lord travels through the universe. For instance, when God made Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, it says, "And the Lord went to walk in the garden with Adam in the cool of the day." He said, "Adam, where are you?" God could have been meeting in any part of the universe other than the capital or heaven where His throne is. Lucifer was expelled from that place but he showed up at this heavenly council meeting.

Apostle: From what I've learned, the council didn't take place on earth because when He asked Satan where he was coming from. He said, " Walking back from--"

Pastor Doug: Right. This meeting is not on earth in the book of Job. It's somewhere out there. It doesn't say where it is. Somewhere in the cosmos. Heaven in Hebrew and Greek, there's a specific dwelling place for God that is what's being referred to as Heaven. Satan's been cast out of that dwelling place but he came to this meeting place.

Pastor Ross: Also, in Revelation Chapter 12, there are two castings, if you wish. There was a casting out and then there is a casting down. The casting out we believe took place after this war in heaven before the creation of earth.Then there is a casting down that you read about in Revelation 12 and that was at the cross when Christ died, the whole universe clearly saw Satan's agenda. It seems at that point, Pastor Doug, that Satan was sort of confined to this earth.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Apostle: That's when he was quarantined?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Apostle: After the cross?

Pastor Doug: Jesus said, "I saw Satan fall like lightning." I think after the cross, Christ paid the price. Satan's access for leaving the world was restricted and the Bible tells us Satan will be bound here during the 1000 Years. At that point, he's not leaving anywhere anymore.

Pastor Ross: Right. Prior to the cross of course, like you mentioned in Job, you have a story of Job meeting with the representatives of the sons of God represent us from the unfolding worlds but from the cross, it seems that Satan is bound to earth. He’s the accuser of the brethren but--I don't know if we mentioned this when he called last week but we do have that lesson on, did God create the Devil? And it talks about the casting down of Satan, Apostle. We’ll be happy to send you a free copy that or if anyone wants to read it you can do so online as well at The number for calling?

Pastor Ross: The number is 800-835-6747 that is the resource line. You can ask the study guide did God create the devil. Again that's 800-835-6747, that is the resource line and our phone line here to the studio is 800-463-7297, again 800-463-7297. Robert listening from Hackensack New Jersey. Robert, you're on the air.

Robert: Yes, good evening brothers.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Robert: I'm a little bit confused by something, the Watchtower people. They claimed that Jesus who they say was Michael the Archangel before he became Jesus. Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God and through him, God made everything, through and by Michael the archangel who then became Jesus, that's how God made everything through Jesus right? Now I have a verse here that I think is in defense of the Trinity but I just want to get your opinion on it.

Going back to what I said before. If according to the Watchtower people, if Jesus is or whatever he was called before he came to the earth, Michael the Archangel they claim. If Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God, some verse they take out of revelation if that's a correct interpretation but if Jesus was, in fact, the beginning of the creation of God, meaning if he was a created being then that would mean that he was a single individual entity.

Like Michael or Gabriel, an individual entity can't be in two places at once but you notice here in John Chapter 14:21, he says, "He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father and I will love him and will manifest myself to him." Then in 23, and Jesus [unintelligible 00:12:35] to him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my words and my Father will love him and we will come unto him and make our abode with him." If Jesus was a single or a created being-

Pastor Doug: How could he do that?

Robert: -then there’s no way he can be in a million places at the same time. Like Jesus said, "If two or three gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them." If Jesus is a created being, he's an individual entity. If he’s an individual entity, he can't be in a million places at the same time. According to Jesus’ own words, he said, “Where two or more are gathered in my name there I’m in the midst of them.” And it says right here if you keep his words-

Pastor Doug: We agree that Jesus is God, that he is not created. When it talks about Jesus being the beginning of the creation of God, when you get that really the way it's worded in Greek, it's saying all of God's creation began with Jesus. Jesus is the one who created everything because everything that is made, was made by him according to the first chapter of John. You’re right Christ said that, “I can't be with you individually but through the Holy Spirit I can be with everybody.” Thousand people around the world can commune with Jesus all at one time. He's not a creation, he's God.

Robert: It's like Michael or Gabriel could never say something like that. Micheal and Gabriel can only be in one place at one time because they’re individual entities.

Pastor Doug: We have a book that we’ll be happy to send you that's called, Who is Michael the Archangel? Many people get really confused about that. No question, the Bible teaches the truth that God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are eternal. They are coequal and Jesus is from Alpha and Omega, he’s for everlasting, he's always existed. Some people wonder about, what are these references that sound like Michael in the Old Testament seems to have divine attributes, where Joshua has to take off his shoes when he talks to him. Holy ground, what does that all mean? We’re going to send you a free book it's called Who is Michael the Archangel? You and anyone else who wants a copy but no question, Jesus is God, the Trinity is true.

Pastor Ross: The number to call for our free resource which is called Who is Michael the Archangel? The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book, Who is Michael the Archangel? Again, 800-835-6747. Derek listening from New Jersey. Derek, you're on the air.

Derek: Good evening brothers.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Derek: I have a very simple question that was posed today after church and it just goes like this. Was Jesus married? I am of the opinion, even though I couldn't find anything specific in the scriptures to indicate that he wasn't, I am of the opinion that he was not. What is your opinion on that?

Pastor Doug: My opinion is worth about 50 cents, maybe not even that. What the Word of God says there is not even the slightest hint from the Bible that Jesus had a wife. Now Hollywood and some people who've tried to recreate Biblical history, have tried to make a case that Jesus somehow was married to Mary Magdalene. I think that in that book, The Da Vinci Code, he was conjuring up some missing books of the Bible or Gnostic gospels that seem to imply that he kissed Mary and therefore they must have been married and there is this scandal and they had a baby and none of that's in the Bible.

If you read the Bible, it was very clear, Christ is married to the church, "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her." Revelation tells us that she's compared to the bride of Christ. What is it, Pastor Ross, John 21? New Jerusalem comes down as a bride, prepared for her husband were invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb. Nobody in the Bible was ever identified as being married to Jesus neither did it ever hint that Jesus was married to anyone. He was an itinerant preacher when he traveled, he’d stay in the house of Peter. Peter had a wife.

He’d stay in the House of Martha and Lazarus and Mary but it doesn't ever say that he stayed with his family or his wife. There's references to his family members, his brothers, his sister, his mother, his father, never does it reference a wife. So that's just a fabrication of Hollywood, you're on the right track. Jesus was single because he was ultimately married to the church.

Derek: Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Yes, let me hope that makes sense. We appreciate your question.

Derek: That makes a lot of sense. Would you have any literature that would boost what you’re saying here?

Pastor Doug: At the conclusion of my response, I was wondering what we could send that specifically addresses that. I don't know that we have a lesson that basically says Jesus wasn't married.

Pastor Ross: We do have a study guide called The Bride of Christ and, of course, talking about the church. As Pastor Doug mentioned, the Bride of Christ is the church, is the believer, the body of believers. So we’ll send that to you, it’s called the Bride of Christ. If you just call and ask for that, we'll be happy to send that to Derek or anyone who wants to study this further. The number to call is 800-835-6747 that is the resource line.

You can ask for the study guide called, The Bride of Christ. We have a few lines still open if you have a Bible question it’s a good time to give us a call. The number is 800-463-7297. Again, this is our phone line here to the studio, toll free, 800-463-7297 with your Bible question. We have Jerry, he’s listening from Medford, Oregon. Jerry, welcome to the program.

Jerry: Hello, pastors Ross and Batchelor. I have a question pertaining to Zachariah 14. In this particular chapter, it talks about the return of Jesus coming back, setting foot in the Mount of Olives. By the way, I was there two weeks ago, very inspiring.

Pastor Doug: We'd like to go.

Jerry: Yes, I'd highly recommend it but anyway then it goes on talking about adults with the evil and them being subdued. Then Chapter 16, it says, "Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles." But then interestingly, it goes on a few verses later to talk about well, if they don't do this they'll be punished by, the Lord will withhold rain and will cause plagues to occur. My question is if the Lord has subdued he earth at this time, why is he anticipating rebellion?

Pastor Doug: Yes, this is a common question because it can be confusing. First of all, when you're reading some of the apocalyptic prophecies, and the main prophets in the Bible that deal with a lot of the signs and symbols are Daniel, Ezekiel, Zachariah and the apostle John in the book of Revelation. They don't write chronologically, it's like looking at a picture through a kaleidoscope where you've got a lot of these faceted pictures that are segmented. It all runs together when they write it but it is an all written chronologically.

When the lord's feet touch the Mount of Olives, most commentators believe that's future, it's going to cause a great valley. The new Jerusalem will come and settle in that valley. And everyone is going to worship before the Lord. But then it's like Zacharia almost jumping back and he's telling the children of Israel that if they fail to remember to keep the feast, keep in mind Zachariah writes after they've come back from the Babylonian captivity. Where the people had been punished for their neglecting Gods worshiping going after pagan gods.

It's like he's then doing a flashback, because from the future when flashes back, if we fail to remember to keep these feasts of the Lord, then judgments going to come upon us. This is what you call a dual prophecy in the Bible. Christ did it, Jesus talking about his second coming. He co mingled his answer Of what would happen to the destruction of Jerusalem with the events immediately before his coming, separated by almost 2,000 years. It gets a little deep at this point. Pastor Rosswants to add to that.

Pastor Ross : Just one additional thought, we do know that at the end of the 1,000 years when the new Jerusalem comes down, and Jesus sets his feet upon the Mount of Olives and it opens up, there will be a period of time where all the wicked a resurrected for what Revelation 12 talks about the great white throne judgment.

Pastor Doug: Inthe Revelation 20.

Pastor Ross: Sorry Revelation 20 talks about that. Then the idea of withholding rain is often a phrase refer to judgment. We know that after the end of a thousand years there will be a judgment that comes upon the wicked, those outside the new Jerusalem. The Bible says fire comes down and devours themselves. Some commentators also seeing that first the promise of coming judgment upon those who are opposed to God.

Pastor Doug: The other wicked after the 1,000 years that are loose for that little season. We do have a lesson we can send you, Jerry, that talks about the subject of themillennium it's called, A thousand years of peace.

Pastor Ross: A Thousand years of peace. The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. Ask the study guide called a thousand years of peace will be happy to send that to you Jerry or anyone who calls and asks. our phone number here in the studio 800-463-7297. If you have a Bible question again 800-463-7297. We have Eugene who's listening from Brooklyn, New York. Eugene, welcome to the program.

Eugene: Hi good night fellows, it's an honor speaking to you brothers.

Pastor Ross: Good evening.

Eugene: I have two quick questions and I can take those off the air, it doesn't matter. The first question is Revelation, I don't have my Bible with me because I'm in my car now. I'm talking about the first white horse, the ride on the first white horse that went down.

Pastor Ross: Revelation19. I believe.

Eugene: To me, this rider is the Antichrist, but some people tell me that this is Jesus. I find it hard to believe is Jesus because is the lamb that open to [unintelligble 00:23:40], and Jesus is the lamb, how could this be he? And the second question was you know I'd defend the Trinity a lot and I got a lot of people coming to me telling me well how could Jesus be God, who was he praying to or who was he speaking to? I've tried explain this good scripture. I just want to know, if you guys have a easier explanation that can help me trying to discern the Trinity.

Pastor Doug: Well I tell you what. I will start with your second question on the Trinity, and I'm going to invite the Pastor Ross to talk about Revelation, where talks about the rider on the white horse. When it comes to the Trinity when Jesus prayed on earth, it tells us in Philippian's that Christ laid aside his divinity and lived as a man among men. And so he prayed as we need to pray, he was baptized yet he never sinned. He wasn't baptized to wash away sin, he's baptized as an example.

He prayed as an example. Yes, he was praying to the Father, and he lived as a man when he was on earth, and he basically canceled or subdued his divinity during that time. He got hungry, he got tired, he felt like we feel. Says he was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. It shouldn't bother us that Jesus prayed to the Father, he was still God the son. Paul calls it a mystery, it's incarnation how God became a man.

By the way, we have a book will send you on Trinity or you can read it for free online if you get their Eugene. Just go to and look for the book called The Trinity, is it Biblical? You can read it right there, downloaded as a PDF and send it to your friends. On the other rider on the white horse, Pastor Ross?

Pastor Ross: Just a couple of quick thoughts there is two white horses mentioned here in Revelation. The first Revelation 6, then there's another rider on a white horse in Revelation 19. In Chapter 19, we know that the rider on the white horse there symbolizes Jesus because his name is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The white horse and its rider in Chapter 6 is being identified as the gospel going forth during the first century.

White is a symbol of purity, the rider on the horse has a bow in his hand, he is going forth is victorious. He describing how that the gospel first preached during that 100 years after Christ, just spread throughout that part of the country Europe in the Middle East in most dramatic fashion. It's been identified as that time period.

Pastor Doug: I know that some people they say everything in Revelation from Chapter 4 on is in the future. They wonder then, is this the antichrist trying to appear like he is Jesus coming? But everything about the verse I think it says he's got the word of God on his thighs, a whole sharp of sword coming out of his mouth.

Pastor Ross: Yes, Revelation 19.

Pastor Doug: Everything about the imagery is consistent with Christ. We would just have to read in the idea that is the antichrist. First of all, if you're going to make a mistake, you couldn't make a better mistake than to get that wrong where you confuse Jesus and the devil. [laughs] It's about as far apart as you can get. I think if you just read what the verses say about this and Revelation gives us the pictures to identify the characters. In Revelation 12, you get the woman clothed with the sun moon stars she's the bride of Christ. Revelation 17 it says on her forehead, harlot, mother harlot, we know she's not. Do we have a lesson that it deals with a subject Pastor Ross?

Pastor Ross: The Revelation 19 in the white horse is all about the second coming of Christ, and we do have a lesson that deals with the second coming, it's called, Rescue from above. It's study guide and it talks about the second coming of Christ. I don't know if it touches on this first directly but it does give certain verses and then signs for Christ's coming. We'll send it to anyone who calls and asks, 800-835-6747 you can ask for the free offer, Dealing with the second coming, rescue from above.

Pastor Doug: Yes and also Eugene if you want that book on the Trinity, go to You could read it there called The Trinity Is It Biblical, and you'll get that book there. You're listening to Bible Answers Live.

Pastor Ross: One of the most popular websites Pastor Dougis one dealing with Bible prophesy, and it's simply called I'm looking at right now, you can study about subjects Israel and the Middle East, the Mark the beast, Pre-Trip, Post-Trip, Seven last plagues, Signs of the end and so much more.

Pastor Doug: That's if its right in with Eugene's question a moment ago. He wondering about Revelation and the subject of the riders on the horses. By the way, those riders in Chapter 5 and 6 are similar to the ones you find in Zachariah, where they appear there. Anyway, if you want to know more about the Bible prophecy, this is a website that is a one stop shop. You can find the most exciting subjects about prophecy, talking about everything from Armageddon, to angels, to tribulation to the beast, to the woman sometimes referred to as Scarlet Harlot in Revelation 17, and get studies there on all of these things.

Web site address again After you look at it, show it to your friends. We're going take a break but there will more Bible questions coming, not too late to call.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back and thanks for waiting, if you just joined us you're listening to Bible Answers Live and we're taking your Bible questions over the air, my name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is Jëan Ross and Pastor Doug we're going to go straight to the phone lines. We have Aaron who is he’s listening close to where we are Carmichael, California. Aaron welcome to the program.

Aaron: Thank you, I had a question tonight about the Trinity and it's referenced in the Old Testament. The only thing I can find is Genesis 1:26.

Pastor Doug: Well there's a similar reference in Genesis 11, at the Tower of Babel, where again God said that "Let us go down and confound their language." Again, you find the plural, I think it's Elohim, that God is using to refer to himself. Trying to think what are some of the other Old Testament references. You have in Daniel, where it talks about the judgment, "I saw one like the Son of man coming before the Ancient of Days." There you've got God the Father and the God the Son. That's in Daniel 7, I believe.

Pastor Ross: Then, of course, you have different experiences and you alluded to that earlier Pastor Doug where Jesus appeared in the Old Testament. You have the idea of the father and the son portrayed in different ways in the Old Testament. Something else interesting just to note, we spoke about this last program, that famous verse, the Lord thy God is one. It's interesting that the Hebrew word one, there are two different Hebrew words.

The one word translated one represents one numerically. There is another would that represents one in purpose or unity, for example, when talking about marriage the two shall become one. It's that different Hebrew word there that means unity of purpose so even when it's talking about God, that God is one, it carries with it the idea that there is at least more than a single individual but they are one in purpose.

Pastor Doug: We will be happy to send you a free copy of that book or you can read it right now online that we have called The Trinity, is it Biblical? It's filled with references both Old and New Testament, doing the program we just wing it from what we got on our fingertips and our laptops here but there is a lot more research that goes into some of the materials and resources we make available. If you go, Aaron, to amazing facts.organd look click on the tab free library and type in Trinity. You'll find articles, books I think there's even videos you can listen to on the subject there. Does that help a little?

Aaron: Yes. I've just been trying to find a lot of biblical passages because I've been talking to people who are Trinity deniers. I just try to show different passages to various people that I have bible discussions with.

Pastor Doug: Let me give you a couple of thoughts since I know where you're coming from. You look at the definitions of God and the Bible says that in the beginning, God created, that's the Old Testament, right?

Aaron: Yes.

Pastor Doug: When you get to the New Testament it says, all things that were created were created by Jesus, well Jesus must be God. He is at least God the Son. The Bible tells us that we're to worship God only but in New Testament we see both Apostles and the angels worshipping Jesus. If it's okay to worship Jesus then he must be God. The Bible says he is only one Savior in the Old Testament and in the New Testament it tells us Christ is the only name given by which we must be saved. There's a just a lot of principles defining God in the Old Testament, we find Christ fulfills them.

His name will be wonderful, counselor, the mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, those are names also applied to Christ. People that try to make Jehovah sound like a different individual than Jesus, you can't do that biblically because all the definitions of Jehovah fit Christ, in His ministry. I thank you very much for your call, Aaron. Download that book on the Trinity or you'll you can call will set it to you.

Pastor Ross: The number of call for our resource line is 800-835-6747 you can ask the book The Trinity, is it biblical? Phyllis listening from Washington State. Phyllis welcome to the program.

Phyllis: My question tonight is I have been studying in the study guides that I get from Amazing Fact. The mark of the beast and the seal of God, as I understand it, there won't be an actual mark but God will know when to give the seal which if we're going to the right church or we going to the wrong church. So far I've been going to the wrong church but I have recently found out where I should be going. I am unable to go to church for about two years now because of pain. I have lot of pain and lot of illness and so on and so forth. If I don't go to church how will I get the seal of God?

Pastor Doug: Well you don't get the seal of God by going to a church building. You get the seal of God, of course, through, first of all, the Holy Spirit and I think it's Ephesians where it says, "the Holy Spirit through which we are sealed". In other words, those who have the mark of the beast have the spirit of the devil, those who have the seal of God have the Spirit of God and everyone already knows that in kind of intuitively.

Pastor Ross: The verse you are referring to pastor is Ephesians 4:30, where it talks about the Holy Spirit sealing us for redemption.

Pastor Doug: Then it tells us in Isaiah Chapter 8 and if you look, for instance, in a verse 16 it tells us, "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples." Within the law of God is the seal of God. A seal biblically just like today has three components. If the president gives a speech the seal will have the name of the president, his office which is president and his territory United States for us in America. If you go to another country, they'll say Queen Elizabeth, Great Britain, it's got her name her office and her territory.

Phyllis: That is the seal that you can see, I don’t understand.

Pastor Doug: Well, there's a seal on the inside. Let me jump to another verse and try and make this clear. It's not your fault it's mine. In Deuteronomy Chapter 6, after God reads the Ten Commandments, again, in Chapter 5 then in Chapter 6 He says, "These words that I command you today shall be in your heart, you shall bind them for a sign upon your hand and they will be as frontless between your eyes but the Lord's law may be in your mouth."

When it talks about on the hand and between the eyes, well we're not supposed to tie the law on our hand or nail it between our eyes and neither when it says these words I command will be in your heart, we are not supposed to open our heart up and put the words in there. It's talking about symbolically in our actions, in our affections, in our thoughts, we want the word of God. Those that love the Lord and have the law of God in their hearts, that is the new covenant.

Pastor Ross: The key issue and especially in the book of Revelations revolves around worship, who are going to worship? There are two groups at the end of time those who worship the beast and they end up with the mark of the beast, those who worship God they have the seal of God. Again, it's not a literal visible mark or seal but it has to do with where our allegiance is. The one that we obey, the one that we serve is the one that we worship.

Pastor Doug: We want to be worshipping with people that believe the same and fellowship with them. Even the Sabbath is called the holy convocation, a time to convene and worship. If a person has medical problems and they can't get to church God knows that. We thank you. Keep studying those lessons fellas I think you've got another one coming on this subject specifically that will make things really clear.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Jerry and he is driving in Kansas. Jerry welcome to the program.

Jerry: Thank you, sir. I've got a two part question [unintelligible 00:38:35], can angels be killed?

Pastor Doug: Well let me tell you it says in Revelation 20 and Pastor Ross will find the exact verse, that this great angel lays hold on Satan, cast him into the lake of fire. Then Jesus says and I think it's in Matthew 10, no it's actually in Matthew chapter 25, Jesus says that there's a lake of fire prepared for Satan and his angels. The Bible's clear two or three verses tell us that Satan and his angels are going to be devoured in this lake of fire.

Pastor Ross: The first reference here the passage Revelation 20:10 it says, "The devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are" then it speaks about their destruction.

Pastor Doug: Your second part of your verse or your question really is can they die? Did they just go to the fire or did they die?

Jerry: If Angels can't be killed, if they're devoured in the lake a fire, how was it when Lucifer led his rebellion that were struck down? Were they killed? How was it put down?

Pastor Doug: Well it doesn't say that the angels were killed at that point, they were evicted, they were expelled which is different from being killed. It says they were cast down to the earth they were expelled from heaven. If God can make a life, I don't think anybody would question can God take a life. The wages for sin is death, and who's the biggest sinner? The devil. It says. "I'll bring forth the fire from the midst of you and it will devour you and it will bring you to ashes on the earth that the sight of them that behold you. You will be a terror and never will you be any more." That's Ezekiel 28.

Pastor Ross: Then also in Jude verse 6 it says, "and the angels that did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, he has reserved an everlasting chains on the darkness for the day of judgment of the great day." Here you have the fallen angels, they do have a day of judgment when they're finally destroyed.

Pastor Doug: We have a lesson, I know you're driving somewhere in Kansas, Jerry, but if you remember the words Amazing Facts. When you get to your destination if you can log on we have a study guide that talks about the fate of the devil and his angels, its called, Did God Create a Devil? We'll send that to you or you can read it.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. That is our resource line and you can ask for the book, Did God Create a Devil? It's part of the Amazing Facts Study Guide series. We have James listening from Florida. James, welcome to the program.

James: Hey, hello how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Doing good.

James: I have a question and I have a statement. My question is do you all believe that the King James Bible is the word of God?

Pastor Doug: Yes, of course.

James: Pertaining to the virgin birth, Zachariah was the high priest at that time, is that correct?

Pastor Doug: No, he was not the high priest, he was a priest.

James: All right, he was a priest and the word holy would it not mean separated to do the will of God?

Pastor Doug: You're talking about where the word holy is used there for Jesus or for Zachariah?

James: Just the word in general.

Pastor Doug: The word holy does mean separated or reserved for a sacred purpose.

James: Okay, now let me make a statement if I may. When Mary went to Elizabeth's house and Elizabeth was six months pregnant.

Pastor Doug: With the John the Baptist, right.

James: When Mary left that house, she was pregnant, is that correct?

Pastor Doug: Yes, I think actually Mary stayed.

James: She did, she stayed there for six months. John the Baptist was born. Now, do we believe that John the Baptist was ordained to be who he was?

Pastor Doug: Yes, his name was picked before he was born.

James: With all the things that take place in a life, it sounds to me like Zachariah, was the one who impregnated Mary. I believe in the virgin birth.

Pastor Doug: We got several problems with that theory. One problem is, of course, Zachariah is married to Elizabeth. He's considerably older than Mary and his wife, they thought she's passed bearing age. Mary's come to visit as a young family member. That this holy man of God who's filled with the Holy Spirit when John the Baptist is finally born, is having a romantic interlude with his niece, Mary, and yet Mary's being called a virgin. I don't know how that all fits together.

James: Well, a virgin is a virgin until she conceives. Once a woman's conceived she's no longer a virgin.

Pastor Doug: I think you misunderstand. If it calls her a virgin, the idea is she didn't have intimate relations. That's why Mary said to the angel, "I don't know a man." When Mary goes to visit to live with Elizabeth, she's already pregnant.

James: Whoa, how did she get pregnant? When did she get pregnant? The angel told her-

Pastor Doug: She was conceived of the Holy Ghost.

James: -let it be unto me as you say and then immediately she went over to Zachariah's house because she knew that Zachariah was a high priest at that time.

Pastor Doug: Well he wasn't a high priest. He was a priest. Doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that Zachariah's a high priest. You know what James? I appreciate your theory and that's interesting I've never heard that before. I respectfully disagree though because I think it contradicts the Bible that Mary was a virgin. She said she didn't know a man until after Jesus was born and ultimately she knew her husband Joseph. Thank you for sharing and I don't really have a book I can send you on that, but bible is a good place to start. We need to keep moving we have folks waiting in line.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Joshua who's listening from Michigan. Joshua, welcome to the program.

Joshua: Hello.

Pastor Doug: And your question?

Joshua: My question is I believe I'm a prophet. I believe I'm possessed at the same time because I'm double minded in all my ways and then in the bible it says-

Pastor Doug: What is your question?

Joshua: You said that when aperson is schizophrenic, well I'm a schizophrenic, and open minded means you're trying to please yourself and please God at the same time and you can't do that. You got to choose one. God told me tonight that if I fast for three days, I'll be filled with the Holy Spirit after a prayer. My dad told me that to fast you can't eat any solid foods just drink water. I want to know if it's really God talking to me because I hear it in the center of my mind and I hear He says, this is your Father from the stars from the heavens.

Pastor Doug: Joshua, let me give you some suggestions. First of all, I can't really be in your head I'm not a prophet and say exactly what voices you might be hearing. You may be struggling, if you've been diagnosed with schizophrenia, with some medical conditions. I certainly believe that it would important to pray and to fast and that God, He can speak to you and guide you. First thing is to fully surrender yourself to Him and just pray that He heals your mind.

All of us feel a little bit of a tug between the spirit and the flesh but what you're describing sounds like it maybe more serious in that. I recommend that you do pray, as far as fasting, there's biblical things on fasting that you can find. You would want to make sure that you don't do anything that jeopardize your health. I appreciate your call but I don't know if that's a biblical question. It sounds more like it's in a counseling category.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Emma Boop from Washington. If we pronounce your name correctly. Emma Boop, welcome to the program.

Emma: My question is regarding a tithe. I start a business, investment come from loans. How am I going to do about my tithe? I really want to be successful and I don't want to have whatever belongs to God, I don't want us to have it. I want an answer on that.

Pastor Doug: When you have a tithe on your business. The Bible tells us tithe is a tenth of the increase. If you're in a business and you're selling guacamole for $5 but it costs you $4 in avocados to make it, you don't pay tithe on the $5 because you'll be out of business pretty soon. You pay tithe on whatever your profit is after you deduct the expenses. You'll have to evaluate what the expenses for producing the product or the services are. You deduct the value of those and you find out what the profit is that you brought in.

If people have to be paid, you figure out what the hourly rate is, you deduct that and say, there's this much profit this month. I want to faithfully return a tenth of that to God. Now, I've never found where people suffer for being too faithful. You usually can't outgive God. It seems like while you're trying to shovel the blessings out, He's bringing them back in. Just continue to be faithful. By the way, we do have a lesson that deals with that subject of tithe and giving. It's the offer we're making it available tonight.

Pastor Ross: It's called In God We Trust. We'll send that to anyone who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747. That is the resource line you can ask for the study guide, In God We Trust. We'll be happy to send that to you. I think we have time for one more caller. We have Walter who is listening from New Jersey. Walter, welcome to the program.

Walter: Hi, Pastor Doug. Thank you very much for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: Thank you, Walter. I want to give you a fair warning we got about two minutes. We got to make it quick.

Walter: Okay, I called you about a couple of weeks ago about Jesus and Judas. I have a question tonight concerning the timeline. Theologians of the Bible and all say that the earth is 6,000 years old. Now, if we figure this is 2014, let's say 2,000 years back to Jesus, prior to Jesus would've been 4,000 years of time. Now, if Adam and Eve lived a few hundred years then Methuselah 900 and change years and Noah a few hundred years. Wouldn't some of these people have overlapped into the time of Jesus or even after Jesus?

Pastor Doug: Well no because you've got 4,000 years before Christ. None of those early patriarchs, the ones who lived hundreds of years live before the flood. From the time of the flood on their life span greatly reduced. I mean but still, Abraham lived 175 years, Isaac was 180, Jacob was I think 147. The span began to shorten quickly after the flood.

Walter: When do we figure the flood was prior to Jesus?

Pastor Doug: The flood was about 1,500 years after creation so it would've been 2,500 years before Jesus. By the way, before I forget. We have a timeline that actually shows these individuals. It's free. It's called Anyone out there, if you want to see a timeline of the ages of these characters and when their lives overlap with the various events, just go to You can see how long Noah lived, Adam, Methuselah, when the flood came, how long Shem, Ham, Japheth lived after the flood, Abraham. You'll have a line that shows how long their lives were. You can see it really does all fit very neatly with the Bible chronology. Well, Walter, I hope that helps a little bit. I'm afraid we're going to get cut off before we can take another phone call, friends.

As we're nearing the end of the program and the end of the year, I hope you're thinking, some of you who wait until the end of the year to make your final year end giving. Please remember Amazing Facts and Bible Answers Live. You can donate online, that's the easiest way. Just You can click the donate button. God bless you. God willing we'll be together again next week.

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