God Chooses the Ordinary

Date: 02/14/2016 
In the summer of 1945, engineer, Percy Spencer, was conducting tests on a magnetron. That's a powerful tube at the heart of every radar set. When he reached into his pocket for a chocolate bar, he found that it melted. He wondered if the magnetron could be responsible. Curious to see what was going on, he put a bag of corn kernels in front of the magnetron. The first batch of microwave popcorn. Spencer patent the new method of cooking.
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Doug Batchelor: Hello, friends. This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact. In the summer of 1945, engineer, Percy Spencer, was conducting tests on a magnetron. That's a powerful tube at the heart of every radar set. When he reached into his pocket for a chocolate bar, he found that it melted. He wondered if the magnetron could be responsible. Curious to see what was going on, he put a bag of corn kernels in front of the magnetron. The first batch of microwave popcorn. Spencer patent the new method of cooking.

His employer, Raytheon Company, transformed his discovery into the first microwave and called it a Radar Range. The first model was six feet tall, weighed 750 lbs and had a price tag of $3,000. Early sales were obviously slow. Gradually, the size and the price of microwaves became more manageable. Today, they're considered an indispensable kitchen appliance. Every year, microwave save people thousands of hours normally watching the stove.

Incredibly, Percy Spencer was also the engineering genius who had already helped America win World War II by devising a method to mass produce radar sets. You might be interested to know, this engineering genius with more than 300 patents, had only a third-grade education. Dauntless, he taught himself trigonometry, calculus, chemistry, physics, and metallurgy among other subjects. The Bible says God has done some great things through ordinary people that are hungry for truth. Stay with us friends, we're going to learn more as amazing facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers live.

Speaker 1: Welcome to Bible Answers live with author and evangelist Pastor Doug Batchelor. Is understanding God's word a challenge? Are there passages or scriptures that are a mystery to you? Maybe it's difficult to reconcile what you've read in the Bible and you've always believed. If you have Bible related questions, stay tuned to get honest, practical answers straight from the word of God on Bible Answers live. Bible answers live is a production of amazing facts ministries dedicated to spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ to the entire world. Our lines are open, so call us now at 800-GOD-SAYS, that's 800-463-7297. Now, here's your host Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Doug Batchelor: Welcome listening friends to Bible answers live, and this is a program if you have a Bible question, lines open. Pick up your phone. Give us a call. Here's the number 800-GOD-SAYS that's 800-463-7297. Lines open, you call now, really good chance you're going to get questions on tonight's broadcast. Prove to us out there you're listening. Give us a call with your Bible question, 800-GOD-SAYS, 800-463-7297. We'll bring your question into our studio and this is live. My name is Doug Batchelor.

John Ross: My name is John Ross. Good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug. Let's begin the program with the word of prayer. Dear Father, once again, we are grateful that we have this time spend a few moments in your word and as we open up the Bible, we ask for the Holy Spirit to come and guide our hearts and lead us Lord into a clearer, fuller understanding of your world as revealed in Scripture. Be with those who are listening, wherever they might be Lord and together, may we discover a fuller understanding or your world of our lives. Thank you for promising to be with us, in Jesus' name, Amen.

Doug Batchelor: Amen.

John Ross: Well, pastor you opened the program by talking about a remarkable individual who was able to take some complicated technology and number one, make it readily available to a lot of people. But come up with probably one of the greatest discoveries when it comes to cooking and saving time, of course, the microwave.

Doug Batchelor: Yes. Percy Spencer was an amazing man and that he was born very poor. He didn't even know about electricity until he was about nine. He lived in a rural area of Maine and lost his mother and his father fairly young. Then, his uncle that was raising him abandoned him and he had to drop out of school to support his aunt after third grade. When he entered the navy, he was fascinated by radio.

He studied it until he basically became their expert and then when radar was discovered, that was crucial in the winning of World War II, he was the one who developed a way to make it small enough to mass produce it. Towards the end of the war, he was working for Raytheon Company. I always worry that if the chocolate bar was melting in his pocket, how many times was his body exposed to microwaves? It's amazing, he didn't cook himself. He lived to 75, I guess, it didn't hurt him too much.

It reminds me of the examples we see in the Bible of how God takes people with fairly common, ordinary, humble beginnings and does remarkable things through them. I mean, think of Jesus for one thing. When they heard about Jesus talking. He was born poor. He grew up in a carpenter shop and yet, they were amazed by his knowledge and learning. You can read in John 7:15, "And the Jews marveled, saying, how does this man know letters, having never studied?" Where did he get this incredible, sophisticated education?

Then, his followers or disciples -- you can read in Acts 4:13, when they were standing in trial before the Jewish Supreme Court, it says, "When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and they perceived they were uneducated, untrained men, and they realized, they had been with Jesus." You see the Holy Spirit can teach you more in five minutes than all of the institutions of higher learning in a lifetime. It's not that we're against education but if you really want to learn the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Even Paul, when he was writing to the early church. This is, by the way, 1st Corinthians 1:26, he said, "You see your calling, brethren, how not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty and base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are. That no flesh should glory in his presence."

If a person has a hunger for truth and for knowledge, the Bible promises, if hunger and thirst after righteousness, then, we'll be filled. Jesus made that other promise, he says, "If you're willing to do his will, you will know of the doctrines." God reveals truth to those who are willing to do truth. There may be some people out there thinking, I'd like to know the truth, we have a book that will tell you how to guard against being self-deceived and not knowing truth. Why don't you tell us that Pastor Ross?

John Ross: The book this evening, our free offer is called Hidden Eyes and Closed Ears, and it's dealing with how do we respond to truth. There are many who don't want to hear truth unless they need to make a change in their life, but the Bible always encourages us, follow truth, pursue wisdom, as the wise man says. Knowledge of God, knowledge of the truth. We'll be happy to send this book to anybody who calls and ask for it. The number to call is 800-835-6747.

You can ask for the book called Hidden Eyes and Closed Ears. Again, Hidden Eyes and Closed Ears, that's the name of the book and the number to call, our Resource line is 800-835-6747. If you're listening to this on the internet and you happen to be outside North America, you're unable to call, take heart, just go to the Amazing Facts website amazingfacts.org and you can type in there, Hidden Eyes and Closed Ears, and you can read the PDF version of the book for free online. That's amazingfacts.org.

Doug Batchelor: Right. We've got a couple questions, why don't we get started?

John Ross: All right, our first caller this evening is Aaron, listening in Carmichael. Aaron, welcome to the program.

Aaron: Hi, good evening. I have a question about Acts chapter 17 verse 29, where talks about -- it says, "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image made by man design and skill." Well, I've been -- with that first part, I know he's talking Athenians or heathen I just don't understand that first part of God the offspring.

Doug Batchelor: Okay. Well, and you find it-- it starts in verse 28, "For in Him we live and move and have our being.’ As certain of your own poets have said." Now, Paul's referring to some of the Athenian poets. "For we are also his offspring." Meaning-- offspring means, the children. And again, it repeats in verse 29, for his promenade we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone.

In other words, when we see that we're made in the image of God and we see we're not stone and we're not gold and we're not made out of these wood-- idol materials, God is a living, moving, real being. Since we're his children, why do we fashion God to look like beasts and these different creatures that-- in Greece, they had statues of-- I forget what the word is for these things that are half human, like half goat-- anyway, they had all kinds of very strange concepts of what God was like and you can look for instance, in 1st John chapter three verse one It says, "Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed on us that we should be called the children of God." We are the sons of God and so we are adopted into the family. That's why it says-- for Born Again we are his offspring, we're the children of God. That in essence what I think Paul is talking to. Paul is very clever, he saw that the Athenians have these promenade that had idols and gods, dedications on his right and left and as he came upon one he saw that there's a pillar there where there a plaque and it said to the unknown god, "Just in case we missed one, we made a plaque out. We don't want to miss any god so we are honoring the unknown god." Paul said, "Let me tell you about that god." [chuckles] He use it as a great opportunity to talk to them about Jehovah and tell them the truth. Does that make sense, Aaron?

Aaron: Yes, that make sense. I just had somebody tried to say like, "Okay so we're like light god," and I said, "Well, but that's different with Lucifer and stuff." It was summon by another belief system that is trying to twist, trying to do twisting and editing, you know what I mean?

Doug Batchelor: Trying to make people sound as if they're divine or something.

Aaron: Yes, like they can be divine which I know isn't true about like that. Let me do some research into that and I'll get back to you.

Doug Batchelor: All right. Yes, I appreciate it.

Pastor Ross: Also if you look at the genealogy of mankind. It goes back and it talks about the various descendants and follow that all the way back through Genesis and it talks about Adam. And it says, Adam, the son of God. Of course, Adam who is the apparent, Adam and Eve, parent of all mankind, they're the children of God. They're the sons and daughters of God and we're his offspring.

Doug Batchelor: All right. Appreciate that, Aaron, thank you so much for your question. You might enjoy the book that we offered tonight about the closed eyes and-- I'm sorry, Hidden Eyes and Closed Ears by Joe Crews.

Pastor Ross: The number to call 800-835-6747, that is the resource line. Again, just ask for the free offer, it's called Closed Eyes and Hidden Ears.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, it'd be perfect for what you described your study with your friend.

Pastor Ross: Yes, absolutely. We have Richard listening from Stockton, California. Richard, welcome to the program.

Doug Batchelor: Richard, you're on?

Richard: Yes. Thank you. My question is do I tithe without first getting my check because I always get one check a month. Do I tithe from that or do I pay the bills first then tithe? I'm having a problem with that because I'm new to all this so I want to do the right thing.

Doug Batchelor: Well, in the Bible it talks about giving your first fruits to God and so if you're looking for priorities, Jesus said, "Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness," and if we have an obligation, tithe is something God says, "Bring all the tithe in the store house and I'll open for you the windows of heaven." I don't think you'd want that to be the last thing you do. Seems like you're blessed the other 90%, he promises to bless what's left if we bring the tithe first and so God should have the priority I believe tithe should go first.

Pastor Ross: That's right. I mean, the principle of tithing is an increase so whether that is-- back in Bible times for the most part it's harvest so we'd take the first of the harvest and take 10% of the harvest and they would give that to the Lord's work. Now, in our society today that's the paycheck so we want to take 10% before we pay all of our bills, ask us blessing upon the rest and give to him the rest and then give to Him that which is His. Of course, there's a blessing, God promises that he will meet the needs of those who put their trust in him.

Doug Batchelor: That's right. He promises to rebuke the things that devour your increase when we're faithful and tithe. It's not just that he opens the windows of heaven and bless us, he also protects what you got left. It's like the children of Israel when they went through the wilderness and they were paying their tithe to God it says in 40 years their shoes didn't wear out and he fed them everyday and so God promises to sustain you. "Seek first his kingdom and righteousness," and he said you don't have to worry about what do we eat and what do we wear. He feeds the-- I was going to say he feeds the fowls and clothes the birds but-- He clothes the flowers and and he feeds the birds.

Pastor Ross: We have a study guide dealing with the subject of tithing, you might find this interesting, Richard. It's called In God We Trust, we'll be happy to send this to you or anybody who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide called In God We Trust and we'll be happy to send that out. Our next caller is Christopher and he's listening from Bronx, New York. Christopher, welcome to the program.

Christopher: Yes, hello.

Doug Batchelor: Hi, thank you for calling and your question tonight.

Christopher: Yes, my question is about marriage. In Hebrew 13:4 it says that marriage is honorable and all and the bed under fire but who among you is an adulterer God will judge. But in Luke 16:18 it talks about those who put away their wife and marry another committed adultery. My question is, how is the first and the second marriage or the third marriage honorable and yet God's want to judge the adulterer.

Doug Batchelor: Well, if a person does not have Biblical grounds for divorce and remarried, Jesus calls it adultery and unless that's something that they repented of like any sin, they will be judged. But when Paul says in Hebrews, we're assuming Paul is a writer of Hebrews that marriage is honorable and the bed and defiled God his blessing is on marriage. God actually performed the wedding of Adam and Eve and the first miracle of Jesus was at a wedding so-- then the Bible ends with a wedding in that you get the wedding supper of the lamb is how the Revelation ends a great wedding feast. God honors marriage, that's why he says that we need to honor those covenants. Am I answering what you're asking, Christopher?

Christopher: Well, I'm just trying to figure out if divorce two or three times that today it's still honorable and yet if- [crosstalk]

Doug Batchelor: I think I see what you're saying. Well, let me give you an example. If you marry or divorce without Biblical grounds and the Biblical grounds that Jesus gave us in Matthew 19, Matthew 5 is adultery, if your partner, your spouse commits adultery, you have Biblical grounds for divorce and then remarriage. But let's suppose you don't have Biblical grounds, does that mean that you've committed the unpardonable sin? No, it could be but not necessarily.

You look at the Bible at King David, King David not only committed adultery with Bathsheba, he not only intruded on their marriage with Uriah but had Uriah killed at the hands of Amenities. Well, David suffered for that. He was punished. He repented of his sin but God did not say, "Now go divorce Bathsheba." Well, her husband was dead and she was pregnant at the time. I think they had actually had a baby at the time.

Later it says, "David comforted his wife," and just the most amazing thing is, of all David's sons and yet several wives, the one that is chosen to be the king by God, following David is Solomon, Bathsheba's son, between David and Bathsheba. He obviously forgave them and then their bed was undefiled but up until they repented of their sin, you can't unscramble scrambled egg. Some people they come to the Lord and they've got all kinds of interesting marriage relationships. You look at the Samaritan woman in John- what is the chapter-

Pastor Ross: Four.

Doug Batchelor: -four, yes. She had five husbands. She's living with one she wasn't married to and Jesus revealed to her he was the messiah. It's a sin to get married and divorce and married and divorce without Biblical grounds but it doesn't say that it's an unpardonable sin. When a person genuinely repents and they realized they've done something wrong, then you should cleave under your wife and ask God to bless your marriage from that point on.

Pastor Ross: We have a book called, Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage that deals with this Biblical principles and anybody wanting to learn more about his, give us a call on our resource line. The number is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage. If you have a Bible question, the number here to the studio is 800-463-7297. Again, that's 800-463-7297 with your Bible question. We'll be able to get it on the air this evening, we have a few lines that are open. Christopher, thank you for your call. We're going to go to our next caller in Detroit. We have Roj listening, Detroit, Michigan. Roj, welcome to the program.

Roj: Thank you.

Doug Batchelor: Hi.

Roj: Can you hear me?

Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Roj: Hi, okay. I'm calling because I have a question about Melchizedek who's mentioned in the beginning, in the middle and the end of the Bible and here's the question: Is it true that he is to the angels what Jesus is to men and if so, does this mean, he is an immortal? What then his order, does it include other people?

Doug Batchelor: No. Melchizedek is a real person. Paul in the book of Hebrews, and you'll find him referring to him in Hebrews 5, he refers to Melchizedek as a type of Christ. Now, there were many Old Testament characters that are real people. There were types- there's things in their lives that were echoes of Jesus. Joseph who was sold by his brothers and yet he forgave them, and he was sold for the price of a slave. He's like a type of Christ. David weeps on the Mount of Olives over Jerusalem. Jesus wept over Jerusalem. He's a type of Christ. Even Moses said, "The Lord your God will raise up a profit like me." speaking of Jesus. There are number of types of Christ in the Old Testament, Melchizedek is one of them. When it says he's without beginning of days or end, Paul is simply referring to the fact that Melchizedek appears in the book of Genesis with no genealogy. It doesn't tell who his ancestors are, what tribe he's from, where he comes from or what happened to him and his people. He appears and disappears historically, but doesn't mean he was an angel or the holy spirit, I've heard a lot of theories. He was a real person.

Part of the reason we know that is Abraham gives him tithe, and tithe wasn't just money. They can gave wheat and stuff and Melchizedek brings out wine and food for Abraham and his army. They have a very real tangible relationship.

Pastor Ross: The whole point of this Melchizedek priesthood that Paul speaks of in Hebrew chapter five and six. He says, "Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek and through Abraham's sin, the Levites came and they were the ones that received a tithe from the children of Israel." But here he's illustrating that Melchizedek was even greater than the Levitical priesthood and that he stands at a type of Christ. But also says that he was a king, so he's both a priest and a king, and of course we know Jesus, he also has a role as priest.

He's ministering for us in the heavenly sanctuary, but he's also the king of kings and lord of lords.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, and Melchizedek means king of righteousness, and Jesus is our righteous king. One more thing, maybe two more things. Melchizedek was a king of Salem. Later known as Jerusalem. Jesus the king of the new Jerusalem. I think the last thing I was going to say is Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine to Abraham. Jesus gave bread and wine at the new covenant. He's a very powerful type of Christ in the old testament, but a he was a real person. Some people think, now this is pure speculation, but I've read that, I don't know if it was Josepha or somebody, in Ancient history said that Melchizedek, they thought was Shem.

The descendant of Noah who was still alive during the time of Abraham that he had come out from Mesopotamia because he'd heard Abraham still worship the true God. That's a little bit fanciful but it's fun to think about. Anyway, hope that helps a little bit Roj. Yes, good question.

Pastor Ross: All right. Again, if you have a Bible related question, the number to call is 800-463-72-97 with your Bible question, that's 800-463-72-97. We have Peter who is listening from Florida. Peter, welcome to the program.

Peter: Hello.

Doug Batchelor: Hi, you're on the air Peter.

Peter: Yes. My question is getting saved the only way to heaven and also, how do you get saved and how do know you are saved when you get saved.

Doug Batchelor: All right. State the first part of your question again.

Peter: Is getting saved the only way to get to heaven?

Doug Batchelor: Certainly, if you're lost, you don't get there. The alternative would be, say, now, will there be people in heaven that maybe had not heard about Jesus. I would say, yes. Christ said that there'll be others that come from the East and the West and sit down on the kingdom with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There'll be people from Old Testament times, that maybe Jesus wasn't born yet. Obviously, they'll be there, or they didn't understand the mission of the Messiah. There may be people, God says that he saved Naaman. Jesus talks about this when he begins his ministry in Nazareth.

There'll be people like Naaman the leper and the Canaanite woman that Elijah stayed with that are not Jews, that God spoke to and work to and minister to through angels, and they lived and they followed up on the light that they had. Basically, they're being saved by the grace of God and by walking in the light that God has given them. Everyone's saved, everyone in Heaven is saved by Jesus. Nobody gets to Heaven without Christ. There'll be some people there that are saved by faith in God, but maybe they didn't understand all the details of Christ in his ministry.

Pastor Ross: Part of your question was, "How does a person gets saved?" I think it all begins by first of all, recognizing your need until we realize that we need a savior. We won't really be looking for Christ, and Christ is the savior. He's willing to save, and the way he does so is through his sacrifice on Calvary, he takes our place, he dies for our sins. Then more than that, he gives us of his spirit and begins to work within our hearts and lives as we learn to trust in him. We grow spiritually. Sometimes, the theological term that be used, "Justification that represents Christ, atoning sacrifice for our sins and sanctification is the working of the holy spirit within us."

That culminates in what we call Glorification. That's when Jesus comes again, and that the Earth is finally recreated. There's no more pain, no more sorrow, no more sin, but he makes all things new.

Doug Batchelor: That's heaven.

Pastor John Ross: That's heaven. We do have a book, dealing with this very important subject. How do we get saved, how do we get to heaven. It's called Three Steps to Heaven. I just breaks down real clear, three things we need to do to come into that saving relationship with Jesus. We'll be happy to send this to you Peter or anybody who calls and ask. The number again is 800-835-67-47. That is the resource line, and you can ask for the book called Three Steps to Heaven. That's 800-835-67-47, ask for the book Three Steps to Heaven, we'll be happy to send it to you. Our next caller then is Wesley, listening from also Florida. Wesley, welcome to the program.

Wesley: Yes, hello. I have a question. I have a children and they want to buy toy guns. What does Bible says about buying weapons, toys for children and they are boys and they really like to have their guns. What do you say pastor?

Doug Batchelor: First, I'd say it's perfectly normal as a father of several boys. I don't know, I think they first begin pretending to shooting things before they're born. If they just sort of are launched that way. God makes boys with a little bit of aggression and they see it. It's in the world around us, it's in all the entertainment, so it's to be expected when I was a kid. Now it's very politically incorrect, but it was cowboys and Indians. Everybody had their cap six shooters. But now you're asking, does the Bible address that. The Bible doesn't say, "You don't buy your kids a toy gun."

Certainly, in the time of the Old Testament, from the time David was taking care of his father's sheep, he had a sling. That was the closest thing to project a missile back then. He probably was playing with one of those things from an early age. As a Christian, you don't want to be talking about taking another life, and so if a person's thinking about, "I want a gun so I can shoot people." There's something wrong with that philosophy for Christians. But trying to get kids to now throw rocks or boys in particular, maybe even girls, that's sort of wired. I don't recommend you go out and buy your kids guns.

Jesus said, "He that lives by the sword dies by the sword." If they understand let a gun can be a tool, and the reason I say this is when we group, our older boys, we lived on a ranch. They actually used the guns as a protection. We had bears and coyotes and all kinds of animals up there, mountain lions. But you would always teach them, you got to respect life. Hey, Wesley, I hope that helps to answer your question, don't mean to catch you up for at the heartbreak at our halftime. We're not going away, friends. We're going to take a brief break. If you have a Bible question, we still have lines open.

800 GOD-SAYS, we're going to be back talking to you with more questions in just a couple of minutes.

Speaker 1: Bible Answers live returning just a moment. If you're looking for Bible-based materials for further study, sign up for amazing facts as free correspondence Bible study cause or check out our sale catalog featuring hundreds of inspiring books and tapes. To order, call our resource line at 800-835-67-47. That's 800-835-67-47. Amazing facts is a faith-based listener supported ministry, operating exclusively through the generosity of your prayers and financial gifts. We would love to hear from you. Write to us at PO box 909, Roseville California, 95678 or online at amazingfacts.org. You're listening Bible Answers live with Pastor Doug Batchelor.

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Doug Batchelor: We're back listening, friends. This is Bible Answers Live, and as you may gather from the title, it's your opportunity to call in with a Bible question. We're live, and the number 800-GOD-SAYS, that's 800-4637-297, it's a free phone call. We focus our attention not on finance or romance, but on the word of God. Bible questions, 800-463-297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is John Ross. Again, friends, if you have a bible related question, the phone line again to the studio in case you missed it the first time is 800-463-72-97. Our next caller is Larry. He's listening from North Carolina. Larry, welcome to the program.

Larry: Hello.

Doug Batchelor: Hi, Larry you're on.

Larry: I'm calling about the Genesis 29:1-12.

Doug Batchelor: That's the story where Jacob meets Rachel. I may not be able to read all that. Do you have a specific question about it?

Larry: It's a general question, but we talk about these verses as if they were prophesies. Is there any prophesy hidden here?

Doug Batchelor: Well, you know, I don't know that I have. I would not be a bit surprised if there's not some allegories in here about when he sees Rachel coming and he's carrying four. Jacob is able to move the stone, he does it single handedly from the well. Someone once said that she must have been pretty because he kissed her and wept. I guess it does say she's pretty.

It's interesting David is caring for his father's sheep, Rachel is caring for her father's sheep and Moses is caring for the sheep of his father-in-law. Jesus, he said, "I'm the good shepherd." He's caring for his father's sheep. There are some allegories here, but that's different than a prophecy. Did you think you might have seen something prophetic in these verses? I think, you know what? we may have cut off from that call. hopefully, you'll maybe call back and let us know. I've not thought of these verses about where Jacob first meets and gets to know Rachel as a prophecy, but there might be allegories which is a little bit different. There are some types of Christ in the story.

Sorry, we lost you. We don't know whether it was technical or what. With that, we're going to have to go to another call. Pastor Ross?

Pastor Ross: We have Fred listening from Stamford Connecticut. Fred, welcome to the program.

Fred: Yes, good evening.

Doug Batchelor: Evening.

Fred: I had a question on the number 24, to saying it represents priesthood.

Doug Batchelor: All right, Pastor Ross, you're a Revelation scholar, you want to-- [laughter]. You were just talking about this last week.

Pastor Ross: We were talking about this. You're probably referring to 24 in Revelation where it talks about the 24 elders in Revelation chapter 4?

Fred: Yes.

Pastor Ross: There's two main lines of thought as to who they are. One is they're the representatives of the unfallen worlds. You have a group referred to in the book of Job and there it's referred to as the sons of God. They're fulfilling the role that Adam would have filled, had he not fallen into the Devil's temptation. You remember in the story, Satan chose that and God says, "Where do you come from," and he says, "All walking up and down in the earth." Some believe that the 24 elders would then represent these unfallen worlds that you read about in Hebrews chapter one.

Another thought is that the 24 elders were those who were resurrected at the time of Christ resurrection. The bible refers to them, a group, we don't know how many. But it talks about the graves being opened and many of those who slept the rose and they appeared in Jerusalem. Then the bible doesn't say anything else about them. Then Paul refers to when Christ is sitting up high, he lets them be gift to men and some see it as those who resurrected ascended with Jesus as first roots. They could possibly be the 24 elders as well.

It's a fascinating study. I like the leaning of it being represented as a the unfallen world.

Doug Batchelor: It's also interesting in the old testament if you're looking Chronicles 1:27. It talks about this group of 24, groups of 24,000. They were 24 captains and their names, Benaiah was one of them who ended up becoming Solomon's general. You got these 24 captains of 24,000. 24 is a common number. 12 in division, of 12 is often seen in the old testament as number for leadership. Like the 12 apostles, some argue there were 12 judges, 12 princes of Moses, and 12 apostles in the New Testament. Having 24 elders in the book of Revelation would talk about some kind of leadership in God's cosmos.

Thank you very much, we appreciate that Fred. I hope it helps a little bit and we do have a book that talks about it The 144,000. we'll send you a free copy. It says a little more in there about the 24 elders. The number to call is 800-835-6747. That's called The 144,000, who are they. We'll be happy to send it to anybody who calls and asks. Again, 800-835-6747. If you have a bible question, the phone line here is 800-463-72-97. Our next caller is Roy, and he's listening New Jersey, Roy, welcome to the program.

Roy: Thank you for taking my call.

Doug Batchelor: Thanks for calling.

Roy: My question is in relationship to Genesis 1:27, "So God created man in his own image, and in the image of God he created male and female." Reading the bible, I carry the question over and over Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel. After Cain had killed his brother, he was talking there in the verse that says, "I see that if any man finds me they would kill me." So God put a seal in his forehead.

Doug Batchelor: He marked him, yes.

Roy: If there were no other men on earth, why would he have not said, "There are no other people on earth, you are the only one." From there, the next verse that says, he went to the city of Nad an there he took a new wife. There was obviously a city, there was obviously other people living. My perception of it is, that Adam and Eve were created as a special race onto God, which is what Genesis tells us. What say you?

Doug Batchelor: Well, I respectfully disagree. I think that when Cain said, "My curse is too big for me to bear that men finding me will kill me." First of all, God had told adam and Eve to go forth and be fruitful and multiply. They lived hundred of years, according to the bible. It tells you in Genesis five that they had many sons and daughters, specifically, Cain Abel and Seth. There are many unnamed. They usually just named the first borns that were the ones that traced the genealogy. Cain knew there had been many ancestors. Cain went and actually created a city. Moses is writing about this, he went to the place that is now known as the area of Nad.

Moses is saying for reference of people who are reading years later, that this is the region that Cain went to. I think he went east of Eden and he founded a city there. There were no people yet. Cain knew that as the world became populated, that he would be a marked man. Because God said, "Be fruitful, multiply," to Adam and Eve. The plan was to fill the earth. and they were probably by the time the flood came, who knows. As you extrapolate how many people they could have been. They could have been millions. Does that make sense Roy?

Roy: Where did the wife come from?

Doug Batchelor: Well, Cain married one of his sisters, it says Adam and Eve had sons and daughters. If you read, Abraham married his sister Sarah. Sarah was a half sister of Abraham. Isaac married his first cousin as did Jacob. It wasn't then odd. Think about it, Adam and Eve, do they have the same parents? Technically, Adam married his sister. It's kind of a weird thought for us today.

Roy: Technically, he married his twin. [laughter]

Doug Batchelor: Well, that's even weirder, isn't it?

Pastor Ross: Well, from the time of Moses, we have a clear command by God, not to marry a brother or a sister. It seems that before the flood, the health, the people lived so long and vitality and so on. It seemed to be okay.

Speaker 1: There were no genetic problems. I hope that helps a little Roy. I appreciate that. I don't know if there's anything written in the book about that, but that's the answer that we give. I appreciate your call.

Pastor Ross: You know maybe, there's a book that came to mind. We have a book that's called Who Are The Sons Of God. I think that might deal with this as well. We'll be happy to send it to you Roy or anybody who wants to learn more about this.

Speaker 1: It's Aliens, Angels Are Adopted, Who are the Sons of God.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. That is the resource line. You can ask for the book called Who are the Sons of God, Aliens, Angels, or Adopted. Our next caller is Ortiz listening from Orlando Florida. Ortiz, welcome to the program.

Ortiz: Hello.

Doug Batchelor: Hi, Ortiz, you're on the air.

Ortiz: Yes, okay. My question is, If someone gets divorced for a reason that's not sanctioned by the bible and they remarry, are they committing adultery? If they stay married to that person, are they in a genuine state of adultery?

Doug Batchelor: Well, first of all, you sort of answered your own question with the first question. If they get divorced and remarried without the support of the bible, are they committing adultery? Well, Jesus said, that those that divorce and remarry, say being for the cause of fornication, meaning, short of someone violating the marriage vows. He says, they're committing adultery and causes the person in the marriage to commit adultery. The question is, is adultery the unpardonable sin? Once you're married to that person, you can't always just say, "Well, I'm not supposed to be married or I shouldn't have married him, so now I'm going to get divorced."

Then you compound your problem because you've made another covenant with a new person. You gotta keep that covenant but at some point, you're going to have to come to terms if a person gets married and divorced without biblical grounds or they've broken a covenant and they committed Adultery, biblically. The question is, what'll they do now? So people wonder, "What do I now, I got divorce and remarried without biblical grounds? The Bible says, you shouldn't, then divorce your wife and go back to your original wife, that would be even worse. It's almost turns into sanctified wife swapping and so, you need to stick with the person you're with and keep your covenant, repent of your sin and move on.

Ortiz: All right, when you stay with that same person but you still live with Adultery?

Doug Batchelor: No. You made a covenant, you committed Adultery, if you divorced the other person. Now if you're on an affair, you need to cut that off and go back to your spouse but if you divorce your spouse and you re-marry and sometimes even there's children involved, you've made a promise to the second person. You did commit Adultery, you started completely on the wrong foot but if you've come to your senses, you repented, you want to do God's will, you need to repent and say from hereon, "I'm going to follow God." There's consequences that we usually experience in this life for multiple divorces and remarriages especially without biblical grounds.

Pastor Ross: You know the book, Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage, I think you'll find this interesting. It covers a lot of these subjects and we'll be happy to send that out to you all these to anybody.

Doug Batchelor: Send you free copies.

Pastor Ross: Just give us a call on resource number at 800-835-6747 ask for the book, Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage. Again, that number is 800-835-6747. If you have a Bible question, the number here at the studio is 800-463-7297 to get your Bible question on the air and next caller is Tim listening from Toronto, Canada. Tim, welcome to program.

Tim: Thank you. Thank you. I just, I had a question addressed to me andI tried to answer the biggest, the best of my ability and the way it went was like this, "If in the Bible, God is telling us at the end times it's going to get really evil just like in the times of Noah, so it will be near the end, why should we continue to fight and pray, you know how the bible-

Pastor Ross: Oops, wait. Let's see if we can get you back. Sorry Tim, we lost you there from the net.

Tim: Yes.

Doug Batchelor: So why should we fight and pray for people in leadership?

Pastor Ross: Is that what you're asking?

Tim: Yes. If it's going to be evil no matter what. That's the question of those who asked me.

Doug Batchelor: Yes. Well, Paul tells us in the New Testament that we should pray for those that have authority over us, pray for those that are in leadership and it's not always easy and sometimes, we see people that are in those positions of leadership doing some pretty shameful things.

God's words were pretty clear that we have to pray for them that God will give them wisdom. There are a few [laughs] people in a high places, you got examples in the Bible of a few administrators that did the right thing, you got Cyrus the Persian King and you've got David and Solomon and there were some others and you need to pray for them. I mean, even David, when Nebuchadnezzar did a lot of terrible things, I should say, Daniel prayed for him and so, you know what Daniel prayed?

This is the way to approach it, Daniel prayed that Nebuchadnezzar will break off his sins by righteousness that it might be a lengthening of his tranquility. He didn't say that everything was going to go right but he said, he might lengthen the period of tranquility or peace. I think, we're praying that there'll be peaceful opportunity for us to preach the Gospel a little longer.

We know how the story is going to end. There's going to be a great time of trouble and all kinds of commotion but for the meantime, we got to pray that God is not willing that people perish. He wants the Gospel to go out and pray for people in leadership, they can make the best decisions and boy, do we need to pray now.

Tim: Pray now, yes.

Doug Batchelor: Things are a mess in leadership of the world and [laughs] we need to pray. I better not comment. It's bad enough I'm talking about religion. I better not get into politics. [laughs] I appreciate you call, Tim. I don't know if it helps any.

Tim: No it does. It helps a lot.

Doug Batchelor: All right. Thanks so much.

Tim: Thank you.

Doug Batchelor: I was looking for that verse, Pastor Ross. It says, you're supposed to pray for the government leaders of the-- government doesn't bear the sword in vain and I had a brain cramp. I can't find it but I know it's in there. [laughs]

Pastor Ross: In Roman Chapter 13.

Doug Batchelor: Thank you very much.

Pastor Ross: Some of us has a talk about that.

Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Pastor Ross: We have David who's listening from Stockholm, California. David, welcome to the program.

David: Hello?

Doug Batchelor: Hi David, you're on the air.

David: Oh, okay. I'm from Vancouver DC. Actually, I was driving too, listening to you guys' program. My question is pretty simple. When Adam and Eve, when God created them, they put them on the garden and then, the God blessed them to multiply whatever after that but before they commit a sin, did they have any sons and daughters or anything that are-- as they were and now because they never get want to be in a sin and then, where will they be?

Doug Batchelor: Yes. I don't think Adam and Eve had any children before their sin because for one thing, God says that part of the penalty or the curse of sin is that, in pain, a woman would conceive and bring forth children and Adam had his punishment. God had told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply but they evidently hadn't done any multiplying yet because even after they sinned, He's still repeating the command to be fruitful and multiply and so, I don't they had any children. I think, shortly after creation, I don't think they enjoyed paradise for very long before the devil tempted them [laughter] and they, it was a short honeymoon. They tried tripped up

David: Thank you.

Doug Batchelor: Yes. I appreciate that. Good question.

David: Okay.

Doug Batchelor: God Bless, David.

Pastor Ross: All right, thank you for your call and our next caller and our next caller is Benina listening from Queens, New York. Benina, welcome to the program.

Benina: Hello?

Doug Batchelor: Yes. You have a question?

Benina: Yes. I wonder if pastor could help me with finding out the expression in Hebrew of the word, "joyful noise"?

Doug Batchelor: Make a joyful noise unto the Lord?

Benina: Yes. Just these two words I would like to know the Hebrew version of them.

Doug Batchelor: All right. We're all look it up for you.

Benina: Joyful noise, if you know? If you could help me to find the Hebrew word for it?

Doug Batchelor: Yes. Let me see here. Pastor Ross, I don't know if you've got it yet.

Pastor Ross: We have one in Psalms 98:4. It says, "Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth, make a loud noise and rejoice with sing and praise." That's the one you're wondering about?

Benina: But-

Doug Batchelor: You want to know what the Hebrew means, huh?

Benina: Would you have the words in Hebrew?

Doug Batchelor: Yes, we do .I'm just looking it up right here, "Shout joyfully to the Lord" it means, to shout joyfully and let me see here, joyful noise-

Beninia: The Hebrew expression of joyful noise?

Doug Batchelor: Yes. Let me see.

Pastor Ross: Literally, I'm looking it up here in the Hebrew it means, the literal meaning is expressing or something causing a show of joy.

Doug Batchelor: Yes. The word actually is "hariu" and it means-

Benina: How you spell it?

Doug Batchelor: Well, if you're using Hebrew and you convert it into English, which you have to do is get the best English word and it's got H-A-R-I-U but you need to know what the-

Benina: H-A-R-I-U

Doug Batchelor: -punctuation is. Yes, you got to know what the punctuation is around that and I've even got a program here that'll say it but I'm not [laughs] going to be delving into that. So why do you ask that question? Why do you want to know that?

Benina: I -- questions are to use behind curiousity. I want to know the Hebrew expression of the word "joyful noise".

Doug Batchelor: Well, it's actually one word that translates shout joyfully. They had a happy shout and it was, it's the word like I said, it says "hariu" in my Hebrew translation here and that's the word. I don't speak Hebrew. Not very much, anyway. Hey, hope that helps a little bit, Benina.

Pastor Ross: The next caller is Scott, listening from Minnesota. Scott, welcome to the program. Scott, you're in the air.

Scott: Good evening.

Doug Batchelor: Evening.

Scott: My question is, the scriptures indicates me that we all are given a choice to either accept Jesus Christ, the savior or reject Him and then after this life, we never have that opportunity again, we're fixed.

Doug Batchelor: That's right.

Scott: But there's millions of little babies being aborted that don't have a choice and there's also people, the Muslims or whatever, oh I shouldn't said that but in this lifetime, they don't get to receive the Gospel. When do they get their choice?

Doug Batchelor: You mean, you're talking about like aborted babies? If there's probably a number of other scenarios of little children that may be dying infancy that don't get that opportunity. Is that what you're asking?

Scott: Correct. Yes. I agree, yes. There's different circumstances for people don't get the choice to make after their age of accountability to make a choice, to receive Christ or reject-

Doug Batchelor: Well, let-

Scott: When do they get the choice?

Doug Batchelor: Let me read you a difficult verse in the Book of Job, it says in verse, chapter 10 verse 19, Job says, "I would have been as though I had not been. I would have been carried from the womb to the grave." Job is describing here a miscarried child. They didn't probably have the problem of abortion back then that we have today. He says, "A baby that has never seen the light of day that goes from the womb to the grave." A very sad picture. Job says, "As though they had not been." Now at the very least you would understand that God doesn't take children who die before the age of accountability. They don't suffer the punishment of the wicked because they have to now accountable. That means they're innocent of that. They may be born with the human fallen nature but they've not committed any known sin.

They've not had an opportunity to accept the gospel. Some maybe as though they had not been. This is a struggle. It's a difficult question because if you do the math and you think about all of the children that die in infancy. That in the resurrection for every adult that accepts the Lord you would have a thousand babies. It's as straight as a gate, narrow is the way that leads life. You've got a comparatively few people that accept Jesus, that are in the kingdom. If every baby conceived is in heaven, wow we're going to have a nursery up there. I know that. I don't want to be sarcastic but it's a difficult question.

Pastor Ross: On the same line though, we do have the promise in God's word that parents who have suffered the loss of a child, a baby, they can still have comfort and hope in the promise that there is a resurrection. Mothers get to hold the babies that were taken from them. Here's a verse, do you remember the story at the time of Christ's birth when Herod sent out his soldiers to kill all the baby boys two and under?

Scott: Yes.

Pastor Ross: In Bethlehem? There is actually a quote in Matthew from Jeremiah 31:16. The quote is, "Thus sayeth the Lord, refrain your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears. For your work shall be rewarded saith the Lord and they shall come back from the land of the enemy." That verse is quoted with reference to the destruction of the baby boys. Specifically words of comfort to the mother or to the parent saying, "Your child will come back." Meaning the land of the enemy being that of death. There is the promise of the resurrection for those who have not reached the age of accountability. But is every child that's ever been conceived going to be born? That'll be a decision I guess they'll have to make.

Doug Batchelor: One more verse on what Pastor Ross was saying. If you look in first Corinthians 7:14. It says, "The unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife. The unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean. But now they're holy." In other words through the faith in the prayers of the believing husband or wife, if they're in a mixed marriage the children-- there's a sanctifying effect somehow. That means there is some difference that happens for the children of believers.

But I don't believe is, some Christians teach that unless the baby's baptized that they're all going to hell. I think that's an outrageous belief. There are promises that children of believing parents, if they die before the age of accountability are in heaven. Now, the bigger question you're asking is, "Why do they get a chance? How come they don't get a chance?" There's a lot of people in the world that haven't heard the gospel, children and adults. That's why the Lord wants us to reach as many as we can. It's sad that the Devil has claimed his territory and he's held so many captive. We have time for one more or are we short?

Pastor Ross: I'm just looking we probably have time. It's going to be a little tight past to that. We do want to let folks know about an event that's coming up actually in March. March the 21st through the 26th in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Doug Batchelor: That's right. Just a little more than a month, we're going to be in the city of Charlotte. We're up linking a brand new series that'll start in the 21st. It's called The Last Day of Prophecy, Discover the rest of the story. This will be broadcast live on television. They'll be on 3ABN, Amazing Facts, Hope Channel, ROKU. We want to encourage you, just go to the website www.lastdayofprophesy.com and find out how to signup and register your site or your church. It's going to be a great event.

Listening friends, if we did not get to your questions tonight then God willing give us another chance in the future. Please keep in mind Amazing Facts is entirely supported by people like you who are calling in questions and listening to answers. We just pray the Holy Spirit will move on your heart to say, "Hey I learned something tonight. I want to keep a program like this on the air." Be one of our friends. Go to the website click Contact and you can make a donation right there. God bless you friends and Lord willing we'll be studying his word together again.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in a church going family. We are at every meeting. I sang in four of the choirs there. I directed three. Very involved, very active. It almost seemed like busy work sometimes. I went to Sunday school. I knew about God. I knew about Jesus but I didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. My senior year in high school I got the news my father had been murdered. I played it off well. No one really saw that I was struggling with it. It just really felt like there was a hole that needed to be filled.

I tried to fill it with drugs, with alcohol, with partying. After college I just stopped going to church altogether. One day on the Sunday because I didn't feel like going to church with my mom. I thought, "I should get a little bit of word." She had the satellite system hooked up. I'm flipping through channels. Then the logo pops across, Amazing Facts presents. I've listened to a lot of different ministries but here's was the first time that he's actually saying something where I had to grab my bible and actually pick it up. I've never heard this before. Let me look through and find this.

I went through all the historically, I went through all the study guides. I just couldn't get enough. Then the Sabbath came up. He's going through the appeal when I'm just going, "Lord I hear you. I have to go to church." I show up. It was funny I didn't feel like I was going to be judged, anything judgmental, anything. I walked in the door and I just felt at home but there's still a problem. I'm still partying. I was still going out into the bars. At this time I was selling cocaine to pay my rent. 16 days later I find myself in a life or death situation.

I had just came back from a liquor store and I grabbed a bottle of vodka. There I am high off cocaine with my bible in hand trying to do a bible study. I heard an audible voice, "Just look at yourself." I did and I was like, "What am I doing?" I got on my knees, I said, "Lord if you do not take this away from me now, I'm going to kill myself. I was going to continue this lifestyle and I was going to end up overdosing, having a heart attack, whatever it was. You have to take this away. All of it." That day he lifted all of that away from me. It was all gone. When God does something in your life he does it complete.

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