Riding On Clouds

Date: 07/13/2008 
On July 7, 2008, Kent Couch settled down on his lawnchair with some snacks, a BB gun and a parachute. Attached to his chair were a hundred and five large helium balloons.
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Pastor Doug: Hello friends. This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? On July 7, 2008, Kent Couch settled down on his lawnchair with some snacks, a BB gun and a parachute. Attached to his chair were a hundred and five large helium balloons. With a satellite phone altimeter and a hand held GPS in his pocket, Couch headed out into the Oregon sky. Nearly 9 hours later, the 47 year old gas station owner came back to earth in a farmer’s field near Union Oregon about 200 miles from home. Couch said “Every kid holding a helium balloon thinks about it. I don't know about girls but I think most guys look up into the sky and wish they could ride on a cloud. "When you're laying on the grass on a summer day and you see the clouds, you wish you could jump on them,” he said. This is as close as you can come to jumping on the clouds. This was actually Couch's second flight.

In September 2007, he got off the ground for 6 hours when he used the BB gun to pop the balloons, he began to descend too quickly and had to parachute to safety. Couch's wife, Susan, calls him crazy but adds, "It has never been dull since I married him." This time Kent was better prepared to control his descent. Attached to the chair, he had several plastic bags holding 5 gallons of water each to act as ballast. After lifting off from Bend, Oregon at 6:06 AM, he drifted east at about 25 miles an hour. Couch said he could hear cattle and children below. And he said he even passed through some clouds. It was beautiful, beautiful he told reporters. Around 3PM he popped enough balloons to set the craft down in Union which caused quite a stir in that small town. Kent said the best thing is the peace and serenity. Well, friends it seems everywhere people are looking for peace and serenity but do you need helium balloons to find it?

Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

Announcer: Welcome to Bible Answers Live brought to you by Amazing Facts Ministries. Are you looking for a clear, concise answer to your most challenging Bible questions? Maybe you're struggling to understand difficult passages or Scripture. If so, you've come to the right place. Join us now as we open God's word to discover His will and find honest, practical answers to your Bible related questions. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question, call us Sundays from 7 to 8PM Pacific Standard Time at 1-800-GOD-SAYS that's 1-800-463-7297. Now, let's join our host, author, speaker and evangelist Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Doug: Welcome friends. We are live with Bible Answers Live. And if you have a Bible question, we have phone lines available. Pick up the phone right now. Call that toll free number if you would like to submit your Bible question for tonight. And we'll do our best to search the word together to find the answers. The Bible is the truth. The Bible is the word. Jesus said “I am the truth” and so if you wanna know Jesus, you need to know the word. That phone number once again is 1-800-463-7297.Give us a call right now. Good chance you'll get your question on tonight's program. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening listening friends. Pastor Doug, let’s start with a prayer.

Dear Lord, once again we thank you for this opportunity to study your word. We ask Your blessing to be with us here in the studio, be with those who are listening and those who call here and guide us to truth for the Bible says the truth will set us free. For this we ask in Jesus name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Jean Ross: And that was quite an amazing fact that you opened the program with this fellow where we just talking before the gentleman's name is Couch and he got into a launch here.

Pastor Doug: Hey, it's a little bit of a tongue twister to read about Couch and his chair. But he actually had heard about someone else a few years ago, Larry Walter who was sort of an urban legend that went up in a launch air surrounded with balloons and got into the Los Angeles International Airport Airspace and created quite a stir when jets were coming in said there's a fellow up here on a launch air. But he always wanted to do this and so he made his second attempt, wanted to get all the way to Idaho, made it pretty close to the border. But the main thing was he get up there and you hear nothing, it's perfectly quite. And the peace you know that he said he wished he could do it every weekend but the helium was too expensive.


Pastor Doug: And it makes me think about how many people are looking for peace and you know the Bible even prophesized that there's going to be a special thousand year period of peace better known as the Millennium. Some have wondered when is that time period coming that thousand years of peace. Where will we be during that one thousand years? Where will the redeemed be? And what brings it about? What introduces that time? And that's just ahead of us friends. If you like to know more about that thousand year of peace, maybe you'd like to know more about how you can have personal peace, we'd invite you to ask for that free offer tonight.

Jean Ross: It's an Amazing Facts study guide called "A Thousand Years of Peace." To receive it, call our resource line that’s 1-800-835-6747. That’s 1-800-835-6747 and asks for our free offer "A thousand Year of Peace." We'll be happy to send that out to you. Well, let's go to the phone lines.

Christopher is listening on KQAR from Shreveport, Louisiana. Christopher, you’re on the air.

Christopher: Yes, Sir.

Pastor Doug: Hi.

Christopher: Hey, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Good.

Christopher: I had a question about the state of the dead. I was discussing with a friend of mine from church about the state of the dead. And I understand the way I’ve heard from you and the way I've come to understand the word of God says that the dead know nothing and that the dead will be raised when Jesus returns and that the sleep in their graves you know and things of this nature. So my friend mentioned that about the first word Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And I'm trying to understand what Paul was saying when he said that because it almost as it seems that it used to that but I know that the bulk of the Scriptures is not gonna contradict itself. So I'm trying to get a clear understanding.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, no problem. There's no contradiction here and let me just... If you don't mind Christopher, I'll just restate very quickly what I understand the question to be. If the Bible teaches that when a person dies that they rest in their graves until the resurrection and the judgment--and of course, Jesus, those are his words, Jesus said "Our friend, Lazarus, is sleeping” and then right after he said Lazarus is dead. Then what about the verse in 2 Corinthians 5 and you'll find it in verse 6 and in verse 8 what Paul refers to death and he says "For we are absent from,” well verse 8 more specifically, "I am willing rather to be absent from the body and be present from the Lord.”--There's no contradiction there. It's absolutely true. When a Christian dies, their next conscious thought is the presence of the Lord. I think what messes it up sometimes is, we think that God lives in the same dimension of time that we live in. Here in this world, we live in a dimension of time that governs everything we do. And we have a limit and an amount of time on this earth. God can go into the future. God can go into the past. And when a saint, when a believer dies while we're still living on the earth, they haven't resurrected yet because they're not up in heaven spying on us in spite of some people's dreams or hallucinations they've had. The Bible says that the dead in Christ will rise when Jesus comes but what about this verse “to be absent from the bodies, to be present with the Lord"? The next thing a saved person is conscious of when they die is the presence of the Lord. For them, it's immediate. But for those of us living here in this world, it hasn't happened. See what I'm saying? So it looks like if you go to sleep and you've got a hard day’s work and you had a nice supper and you go to sleep--and do you ever hit the pillow and you're just so tired, the next thing you know the alarm clocks going on, you may have been in bed 6 or 8 hours and you have absolutely no sensation of it?--For the dead, it's like a dreamless sleep. An example would be King David who died 3000 years ago. The Bible says David slept with his fathers. When you get to Acts chapter 2, 2000 years ago, Peter says David is dead and buried and not ascended to heaven, that's in Acts chapter 2 of Acts. So here's good king David who we know is saved and still a thousand years later, Peter says “He's dead. He's buried. He's not in Heaven." Well, for David when Jesus comes in the near future and the dead in Christ rise, his next conscious thought is you know last thing he remembers he's you know he got Bathsheba and Solomon at his bedside with Nathan the prophet, he goes to sleep in death and seems like a moment to him and he opens his eyes and he's got a glorified body and he's caught up to meet the Lord. In here, to be absent from his physical body is to be present with the Lord. You see what I’m saying?

Christopher: All right.

Pastor Doug: But it hasn't happened yet for those who died, they're next conscious thought… But it's a mistake if we think that the saved are all up there spying on us. The Bible says actually the opposite. It tells us that we're not to try and communicate with the dead. That’s called 'spiritism.' “The dead know not anything,” Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 5. So I'm assuming you have our lesson, Christopher, "Are the Dead Really Dead"?

Christopher: Yes, Sir.

Pastor Doug: You know we've got some other study guides. There's one called "Spirits of the Dead." We don't often give that away but it's a little deeper study. “Spirits of the Dead," do they speak and hear? And we'll send you a free copy of that if you like.

Jean Ross: We also got a little... We also got a book called "Absent From the Body."

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Jean Ross: Tackles also with that very subject.

Pastor Doug: That'd be even better. Why didn't I think of that?

Jean Ross: We'll send that to Christopher for free. All you need to do is call our resource line 1-800-835-6747. You've got some choices. You've got the study guide “Are the Dead Really Dead?" You've got the book “Absent from the Body." And then you mentioned another one.

Pastor Doug: "Spirits of the Dead."

Jean Ross: “Spirits of the Dead.”

Pastor Doug: Yeah, "Absent from the Body" is right on the button.

Jean Ross: (inaudible 11:01) subject. All right. Our next caller is Tammy calling from Louisiana listening on the internet. Tammy, welcome to the program.

Tammy: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Tammy. You're on the air.

Tammy: Okay. You can hear me okay?

Pastor Doug: Loud and clear.

Tammy: Let me say I appreciate. Amazing Facts has been a blessing to me. My husband just have a quick question.

Pastor Doug: Praise the Lord.

Tammy: A family member saw that book. I have all of your booklet, Michael the Archangel, (inaudible 11:26) and so “Oh, the archangel have you heard about Gabriel and Rafael also?” And I said "Oh, I haven't heard of Archangel Rafael." And she said, "Yeah, it's in the book of Tobias" and I said "What book is that? And she said it's in the Bible. So I got up my Bibles, of course I have the Amazing Facts Prophecy Bible. And I couldn't find it there obviously. You know she kind a made me feel my Bible wasn't the real Bible.

Pastor Doug: Your friend probably has the (do way?) version or a Catholic Bible.

Tammy: Well yeah, I didn't want to state that but I believe so.

Pastor Doug: Well, that's okay. We tell people when they call in friends that we try to avoid you know hammering any specific denomination but that's just really a technical fact is that the you know protestants did not include some of the apocryphal books that will include any apocryphal books in the protestant Bible. In the book of Tobias is or Tobit, more specifically--

Tammy: Okay.

Pastor Doug: --is one of those books that was a very suspicious or dubious version. They believe that it was, you know, written after the fact and it conflicts with other Scriptures which is why the protestant Bible translators said you know ,“We can’t trust that it's authentic,” and they didn’t' include it in the Protestant (kin?) of Scripture.

Tammy: Okay. So the... Archangel...

Pastor Doug: Yeah, there's nothing else that talks about Rafael the angel in any sacred writings.

Tammy: Okay.

Pastor Doug: That's one reason it was suspicious.

Tammy: Okay.

Pastor Doug: The only angel that is given by name other than the archangel which is not an angel, Michael the archangel is different, is Gabriel.

Tammy: Gabriel. Okay. I just want to verify that.

Pastor Doug: But yeah you're on the right track. As a matter of fact we may talk a little bit and you may already have the book "The ultimate Resource" where we talk about the Bible and some of the history there.

Tammy: Yeah, it's actually in the back of your prophecy Bible.

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Tammy: It's in there. Well, thank you so much for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: Thank you, Tammy. And you know that's a good opportunity for us to tell people. We can't give it away for free but Amazing Facts this year, just released something that we have been working on and praying about for 40 years and that is a special Prophecy Study Bible. It got all these study notes in it and it's just a remarkable Bible. It's the New King James version. And the Prophecy Study helps numbers in the Bible and all kinds of resources concord encyclopedia index--I can’t even remember all--but if folks want to know more about the Prophecy Study Bible, they can go to the Amazing Facts website. You can find the information there, just amazingfacts.org.

Jean Ross: Cory is listening on the internet from La Crosse, Wisconsin. Cory, welcome to the program.

Cory: Thank you. How are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Very well, how can we help you tonight?

Cory: I have a question about that seal of God in relation to Sabbath (inaudible 14:23).

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Cory: Can you explain how it works?

Pastor Doug: All right. Well, in revelation chapter 7, it talks about the 144 thousand. They're also mentioned in Revelation chapter 14. In Revelation, everybody has something in their forehead or their hand. You've got one group of people they’ve got the mark of the beast in their right hand or in their forehead. The saved have the Father's name or the seal of God in their forehead. Now, I'm hoping most people know these are symbolic in the last days, we're not gonna have people walking around all tattooed in the forehead. In the forehead biblically means in the mind or in the thoughts. In the hand means in the actions. Some examples for that would be, Cory, if you look in Deuteronomy chapter 6 verse 4, that great statement of Moses where he says "Here, Oh Israel: The Lord our God is one." After he gives the 10 Commandments in chapter 5, in chapter 6 Moses says "In these words that I command you in this day shall be in your heart. You shall bind them for sign in your hand. They shall be as frontlets between your eyes." Between the eyes being the forehead. So those that do not have the law of God in their mind and in their hands and in their heart, will end up having the mark of the beast in their hands and in their forehead. It's just you know who's law do we keep. Now in the law of God, the word holy appears one time and that's in the Sabbath commandment. A seal biblically, any—as a matter of fact even today, any government seal contains three characteristics. A seal is gonna have the title, the territory and the name. An example would be in the Bible you've got the seal of Pontius Pilate, that was put on the tomb of Christ. It would say Pilate, governor, Judea. When Daniel was put in the lion's den, King Darius put a seal on the stone that covered the den with. And that's seal would say Darius, his name king, his title Medo-Persia, his territory. In the 10 Commandments, there's one command that where you find those 3 components regarding God. Now, it's in the Sabbath commandment. It's the longest commandment. It's the only commandment that begins with the word ‘remember.’ And in there it says, the Lord, as his name Jehovah created, that's his office, he's the creator and sustainer the heavens and the earth, that's his territory, everything. And so that's why many teach that the Sabbath is a symbol for the seal of God and his people and it revolves around worship. The big issue in Revelation is who you worship. And Sabbath is all about worship. So that's it, I'm giving you a quick answer. Pastor Ross has got some...

Jean Ross: Yeah, just a couple of verses to add to that. Ezekiel chapter 31 verse 13 and then it's repeated in verse 17, "My Sabbath you shall keep for it is a sign between me and you." And then if you go on and look at Ezekiel chapter 20 verse 12 and 20, “Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them." So the Sabbath is one the symbol of this relationship with God. It is a sign between God's people and us.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it's unique. There's one more verse while we're on it. Isaiah 8:16, "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples,” so within the law there's some sort of seal. And those are some of the verses because there's much more but … Don't we have a study guide that we can send Cory?

Jean Ross: We do as a matter of fact I'm looking at it right here. We have one on...

Pastor Doug: The subject of the Sabbath, of course.

Jean Ross: The Sabbath, Yes.

Pastor Doug: Which is called “The Lost Day of History.”

Jean Ross: That would be a good one to send.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Jean Ross: To receive that, call 1-800-835-6747. Asks for the study guide “The Lost Day of History," dealing with the Sabbath. We'll be happy to send that to you. Mary is listening on KPRZ from San Diego, California. Mary, you're on the air.

Mary: Yes, thank you. I have a question in Genesis chapter 16 in the verse 12 and it's about Ishmael. I like clarification what this means. And it says, "And he will be a wild man his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” And then if you go to the next chapter 17 verse 20, it says, “And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.” Can you explain that to me?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I think that for one thing the word ‘wild’ there in Hebrew throws people. It's (re’em?)4 and it means, it's the Hebrew, and it means like someone who is roaming like a roaming animal that ranges. And it is interesting that the descendants of Ishmael have been a nomadic or are ranging people. Wild--you know you've got domestic sheep’s, you've got wild sheep. So wild doesn't mean like a raving lunatic. And some people think he's gonna be raving mad person. That’s not what it means. It means a roaming man. And I tell if there were any people in the world who had been nomadic for the longest period of time, it has been the descendants of Ishmael. Now, am I answering your question or...

Mary: And who are they? Can you name who they are at the present day?

Pastor Doug: Oh, the world the descendants of Ishmael are the Arabs.

Mary: Oh, I see.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it traces and you can find them and they freely admit that. I mean it's as a matter of fact, Muslims believe that Abraham offered Ishmael on Mount Moriah rather than Isaac, which I thought was really interesting on my first trip to Israel when I was told that. So but they do believe they’re the descendants of Ishmael.

Mary: Okay, and so there's another someone that you can think of Abrahams other son or...

Pastor Doug: Well, Abraham had several sons, not only did Abraham... first he has Ishmael then Isaac after Sarah died, Abraham remarried a woman named Keturah and he had a whole liter of kids with her. And they are all listed there in Genesis but it doesn't take their genealogies all the way forward so it's harder to trace them. But the genealogy of Ishmael is tracked for several generations and we can track that all the way forward to the modern day of nations.

Mary: and so the blessing that God gave him in chapter 20, I mean verse 20 chapter 15, what is that then?

Pastor Doug: Well, he was blessed. God preserved the posterity of Ishmael and those people did become a great nation. I mean, who can deny that today?

Mary: Okay. Well, thank you very much for answering my question. Thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: And of course the Islamic people are one of the big three monotheistic religions of the world. The main monotheistic religions of course are Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Jean Ross: All right. Jeff is listening on WSIV from Syracuse, New York. Jeff, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Jeff: Good evening.

Pastor Doug: Evening, Jeff. Welcome and your question.

Jeff: I hope it's a real easy one.

Pastor Doug: All right.

Jeff: Christians have tattoos or should they get tattoos?

Pastor Doug: Well, I think a quick answer is gonna be no. And Pastor Ross I can hear him typing. As a matter of fact, if you look in the New King James, it says tattoos--what is it Leviticus...

Jean Ross: Leviticus 19:28.

Pastor Doug: Wanna read that for us?

Jean Ross: It says, "You shall make no cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you for I am the Lord."

Jeff: That's I know what's in there and I couldn't find it in mine.

Pastor Doug: Some translations actually use the word tattoo there because the practice of tattooing goes all the way back to long before Christ. It's you know a permanent mark people are branded. Sometimes they're slaves and God says, "Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit." You know it always breaks my heart, Jeff, when I drive around, a new development or a new town and you see some of these kids get their spray paint and start tagging the walls with their you know cryptic graffiti and it just ruins sometimes beautiful neighborhoods. And our body's the temple of the Holy Spirit and God does you know He doesn't want us to be putting graffiti on our bodies. Now having said that you know there's a lot of good Christian people have come to the Lord, they didn't know better or maybe in the marines or something and then they had a conversion experience. You know God, He accepts us the way we are. We come just like we are. And the Lord won't reject anybody ‘cause they've gotten tattoos but if you are a Christian, I think it's a violation of treating your bodies the temple of God to be disfigurated with tattoos. You know it's really strange, I heard people talked about "I'm going to get Christian tattoos." Well, that doesn’t makes sense to me. Well, you can’t call something Christian when the Bible forbids it, it commands against it.

Jean Ross: Right.

Pastor Doug: Sort of like Christian pornography. It doesn't makes any sense at all. Hope that helps a little bit, Jeff. I appreciate your question.

Jean Ross: Edd is listening on WLMN from Illinois. Edd, welcome to the program.

Edd: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Edd. How can we help you?

Edd: Well, I wanted to know about being saved rather than unsaved. The unknowing you can be saved according to Job 3:16. I was raised in a faith that I guess said that you can know that you're saved you know with God so love the world that He sent His own begotten son that whoever believes in Him, should not die but will have everlasting life. And to me I guess what I was what I (get?) out of that is that I can know that I'm saved.

Pastor Doug: Well, there are verses in the Bible that tells us we can have an assurance that we're saved. You know John says that we might know that we have everlasting life. When we you know, I mean we're saved by faith. And if we go through a whole Christian experience doubting that God accepted us that'd be a miserable experience but at the same time, what the area where myself and Pastor Ross would part with some Christians as the ones who say, "Once I have this assurance that I'm saved that means now it's impossible for me to be lost". That's not true. We can have assurance that we're saved but at the same we shouldn't be presumptuous--that means we can do whatever we want and not be lost. Because salvation is based on a love relationship where there's a free choice and if we choose God will never turn away from us because He loves us. It's our love that's fickle. If we choose to turn away from God then we can you know spurn His love and be lost and loose that salvation.

Jean Ross: You know just to add to that verse John 5:24, Jesus says "Verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my words and believeth on Him that sent me, hath after everlasting life."

Edd: Yeah.

Jean Ross: Now, the key there is believing. That’s not just a onetime event but it's an ongoing relationship. Just as surely as we keep surrendering, keep believing, keep trusting, Jesus has given us the assurance we have passed from death to life as the rest of the verse says but we can choose not to believe. And in that way, we would lose that assurance of eternal life.

Pastor Doug: Does that make sense, Edd?

Edd: A little. Yeah but it seems that I guess confused about is I mean I don't understand why someone or why I would wanna lose my salvation? You know, you understand what I mean?

Pastor Doug: Well, I don’t think anyone wants to lose heaven but what happens is sometimes the attraction of sin becomes stronger within us than the attraction for Christ. And we take our eyes off of Jesus and we become mesmerize by the world and the things in the world. And we forget about the Lord. You know one of the most (sobering?) prophecies that Jesus made regarding the Second Coming, he said that "Many will come to me in that day saying ‘Lord, Lord’ and He'll declare ‘I did not know you.’ And they’ll say ‘But Lord, we thought in your street. We cast out devils. We did many wonderful works.‘” They know his name. They had this assurance that they were saved but it turns out to be a false assurance. And he says “To part from me he who works iniquity,” so if we're saying his name and claiming that we love him yet we're living lives that are worldly and sinful, then we're self-deceived. It's very dangerous.

Jean Ross: You know Jesus said in Matthew 10:22, "He that endures till the end, the same shall be saved."

Pastor Doug: There you go.

Jean Ross: So to be a Christian requires a certain degree of endurance, faith, holding on.

Pastor Doug: You know we have a book. We’d be happy to send you, Edd. If you'll call the toll free number, and it's simply called "Can a Saved man Be Lost?” “Can A Saved Man be Lost?" It will give you both encouragement and good Bible perspective on this question.

Jean Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the book "Can a Saved Man be Lost?"

Pastor Doug: Well, Pastor Ross, I think we've got our half time music that is coming up behind us friends. That's all it is. We're coming back with more Bible questions in just a moment. And go ahead, get a pencil out we're gonna give you some interesting websites addresses that will help enhance your study between Bible Answers Live programs. And also gonna be talking about some exciting appointments that are coming up. As a matter of fact, I'll give you that main, the mother ship website right now. It's simply amazingfacts.org and we're happy that you can even type in amazingfacts.com or amazingfacts.net. That will all take you there. We'll be right back.

Announcer: [Music plays] Bible Answers Live will return in just a moment. Remember to tune in to Pastor Doug's daily radio program "Wonder's in the Word" and our weekly television broadcast Amazing Facts Presents which is aired on major networks including ABC Family, BET, The Church Channel, Vision TV, and superstation WGM. Go to www.amazingfacts.org to find a station in your area. Are you in need of an additional Bible-based materials for further study? Consider Amazing Facts’ free correspondence Bible Study Course or our Sale Catalog featuring hundreds of inspiring books and tapes. To order, call our resource line at: 1-800-835-6747 1-800-835-6747. Don't forget friends Amazing Facts is a faith based listener supported ministry operating only by God's blessing through your prayers and financial gifts. We would love to hear from you. Write to us at:

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Announcer: Welcome back to Bible Answers Live with Pastor Doug Batchelor. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible-related question, you can call us from 7 to 8PM Pacific Standard Time on Sundays and receive clear and honest answers directly from Scripture. Call 1-800-GOD-SAYS that's 1-800-463-7297. Now, please join us as we looked to God’s word for more Bible Answers Live with author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Doug: For any of our friends, who have recently joined us, this is Bible Answers Live. And we do have free phone lines. If you like to call that free number, that number is 463-7297. Did I mention that's 1-800-463-7297? And call in with you Bible questions. We would like to stick to that one subject. We dedicated this program to search in the word. We don’t believe it's God's will there should be so much chaos among the churches. And there should be more in unity in truth and what we believe if we all use the same Bible, we should come to the same conclusions, taking an honest look. Pastor Ross, we've got a number of things that are coming that are very exciting. Maybe we should talk first about Amazing Facts television, the dot TV website.

Jean Ross: It’s a great website. People can go there online. Go to amazingfacts.tv. And you can watch programs. You can even search for different subjects and see programs related to that subject. That's one of the fastest growing Amazing Facts websites that we have.

Pastor Doug: You know, it's amazing to me is we've got some Amazing Facts employees that are in China. And the number one language thought in China is English. And some of the people learn in English can also get on the internet now. There are more people on the internet in China now than there are in the US which is amazing. The folks all over China, they're not allowed to watch Christian television but they can go to our Christian websites and watch Christian television on the internet and they're doing that to learn English but they're learning the Gospel at the same time. And so what we just, what we have look the other day and see how many people were at a given time from China on the amazingfacts.tv website. So that's very exciting, huh? Almost afraid to see too much because somebody might, Chinese government might hack our website. I don't know. But check it out friends. 24 hours a day, amazingfacts.tv.

Jean Ross: And, of course, you don’t have to be in China to access that great website. We have several other websites dealing with different Bible topics. WE have someone ask about death. What happens when a person dies?

Pastor Doug: That's right. The truth about death.com. And a little earlier someone ask about the Sabbath and seal of God, sabbathtruth.com. We’re very happy. You type in the word Sabbath day on Google. Out of 41 million potential websites on the first page, you're gonna find Sabbath Truth. So it's a very popular site. It has a lot of purely biblical, that's our answer. We wanna give biblical answers. They may not be popular but they will be biblical and that's the bottom-line. So (inaudible 33:19) our children's meeting. We want to remind all of our friends out there and tell your friends about the Amazing Adventure that's a satellite evangelistic series just for kids. Pastor Ross and I will be in Richardson, Texas that's a suburb of Dallas and we're going to be up linking on 3ABN. It will also be on the Hope Channel, 10 nights of evangelistic series just for young people. And if you've got young people between the ages of 8 and 10 or 12 years of age, and they want to commit themselves to Jesus or they like to learn more about Jesus, that's what this series is for, called Amazing Adventure. It's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of graphics, a lot of interesting Bible preaching for young people and you can find out more about that at the website. That's called amazingfactskids.com.

Jean Ross: Amazing Facts Kids. There it is.

Pastor Doug: Thanks for correcting me. Anyway, anything more or shall we go back to the phones?

Jean Ross: One more thing in connection with that Amazing Facts, well, Amazing Adventure Program, our brand new lesson--

Pastor Doug: Well, that's right.

Jean Ross: That we're gonna have and they'll be available for the series of meetings.

Pastor Doug: We're gonna have new programs, new lessons just for kids. We believe if we reach those young people, the world is sure trying to reach, no question about that. That’s something we're very excited about. One more time, it's amazingfactskids.com. And you wanna watch the little promo opener, you'll find it very interesting.

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Brian listening on the internet calling from Hobbs, New Mexico. Brian, you're on the air.

Brian: Good evening. My question is regarding Matthew 16:18.

Pastor Doug: Yup.

Brian: Peter the rock. I'm aware of that the distinction made there in the Greek. It's Petros and Petra. Jesus being regarded as the Petra. However, Jesus spoken in Aramaic when of course we know that he spoke in Aramaic and in Aramaic, both Peter and rock is translated Kepha, K E P H A. So how would you respond to that knowing that its original language was Aramaic?

Pastor Doug: Well, when Matthew was written, Matthew who was very likely a witness of what Jesus said in Aramaic, heard Jesus made some distinction with Peter when he talked about you know you are Petros. And the petros is a rolling stone or a pebble but on this petros so he may have not used the word rock for Peter, he might have said you are a pebble which is a different word in Aramaic. So you know because Matthew recorded it in Greek, all we can go from is what he recorded and believe that's inspired.

Jean Ross: And of course if you read in Acts chapter 4 from verse 8 through the verse 12, it’s Peter that's preaching and he clearly identifies Jesus as being the stone. And then in 1 Peter chapter 2 from verse 4 through the verse 8, again it’s Peter and he said that Jesus is the stone, the rock upon which the church is built. He never identified himself as being the foundation of the church. He always pointed people to Jesus as the foundation.

Brian: Okay and responding to that text, when I look at Ephesians 2:20, it also says that the apostle are the foundation as well. And so how would we respond to that?

Pastor Doug: Well, let’s look at it this way. There is... Okay when you're building a big building like when the temple was built there is bedrock upon which the foundation stones are laid. Jesus is the bedrock and the apostles all admitted that Christ is the ultimate foundation stone. Jesus is not built upon them. They are building upon him. You would agree with that. Right.

Brian: Yes, sir.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Well, that's all that Christ... Do you believe Peter was the rock of the church?

Brian: No, Sir. I was just actually I was having a conversation with the (inaudible 37:12) and then they brought that to my attention and you know that it just it had (inaudible 37:18) with me.

Pastor Doug: You know one reason we can feel fairly confident that Peter is not the rock that put you upon which Jesus built the churches, shortly after Jesus says “This is the rock on which I'm gonna built my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it,” Peter says something to Jesus and Jesus turns to Peter and says “Get behind me Satan.” So our church would be on a pretty shaky foundation if the person who is there the rock with the church, one moment there the foundation next moment, Jesus has called him Satan. You know what I'm saying?

Brian: Good point. Good point.

Pastor Doug: And not long after Jesus said this, Peter denied Jesus. So that would be a pretty shaky foundation if the church is built on Peter. And one more technicality, the chairman of the board for the early church wasn’t Peter or Paul it was the brother of Jesus, James.

Brian: James, yeah.

Jean Ross: Yeah, just to add the context--

Brian: Do we look at James as Pope James then?

Pastor Doug: That's the part where none of them were called popes back then. That’s a comparatively recent development.

Jean Ross: You know the context of Matthew 16 (inaudible 38:23) Jesus asks the disciples, “Who do people say that I am?” And they came back and said, "Well, some say you're John, the Baptist and Elijah,” and so on. Then Jesus said "But who do you say that I am?" and it was Peter who responded and said, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God." And so that and then Jesus says "Flesh and blood is not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven.” So the church is built upon the truth that Jesus is the Christ. He's the foundation.

Pastor Doug: He's the one that the Jews had been waiting for. He is the Messiah. So you know I've got a book that I can send you, Brian, that it comes from a little different direction. And I'll send it to you as a gift. It's called “The Two Witnesses." And it's about the reinforcement that Jesus was the one that they were looking for. And if you'd like that, just call the resource number and ask for “The Two Witnesses.” And we'll be happy to send that to you.

Jean Ross: 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the two Witnesses, we'll be happy to send that out. Levon is listening on Ontario, Canada. Levon, welcome to the program.

Levon: Yeah, I'm talking about Romans where it says that Israel shall be saved.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Levon: I was wondering those are the meant what he said that--give me just here that... it should be just the way that God wrote it and that you teach replacement theology putting to both (inaudible 39:45) Israel and they all started this (inaudible 39:47) and all that.

Pastor Doug: Well, let me ask you a question. Do you think that God is saving people based on their race?

Levon: No.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Are there going to be some of Israel who condemned Jesus to crucifixion that obviously will not be saved? Would you agree with that? I mean because Jesus said to them, “It would have been better if you not to be born." So it's obvious not everybody in Israel is going to be saved. So when Christ makes... When Paul makes a statement there in Romans, "All Israel will be saved," this is after Paul has made a very clear distinction that he is not a Jew. I'm quoting Paul now. He is not a Jew which is one outwardly but he is a Jew who is one inwardly. It's not the outward race. It's the inward circumcision of the heart. And you know that's why the Bible says, “Many will come from the east and the west and sit down in the Kingdom with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the children of the Kingdom,” people who might be a literal children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in outer darkness. If we don’t accept Jesus, Jew or Gentile you cannot be a child of Abraham. And again, it says “If you are Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.” Your person becomes a spiritual Jew. You know we have a book that we will send you or anyone, Robert, who's got a question on this idea of who is Israel today and what is God's plan for the Jewish nation. And it's written by myself who I am Jewish along with Steve Wohlberg, another Jew, and so no one can accuse us of being anti-semitic. Or I guess they could accuse us but we can stand it. And it's called "Spiritual Israel." We’ll send you a free copy of that, Levon. "Spiritual Israel” and it deals with this issue of replacement theology.

Jean Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747 and asks for the book “Spiritual Israel.” We’ll be happy to send that out to you. Drew is listening from Virginia. Drew, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Drew: Hey, how you doing?

Pastor Doug: Very well. How are you?

Drew: I'm great. I really appreciate your ministry.

Pastor Doug: Well, praise the Lord.

Drew: And I had a really quick question. And it was referring to the Sabbath and it was basically dealing with when Jesus said at the (inaudible 42:03), why don't you get them out.

Pastor Doug: Right.

Drew: And some people like to say that's in reference to an emergency but what kind of emergency. Like for example, I work a job for Monday to Friday and if a rush job where to come in and someone needs it immediately and they would tell me you know you have to work on the Sabbath, how would that affect me? Is this a matter of life when Jesus speaks of the arks? Or is it a matter of any kind of emergency?

Pastor Doug: Well, when Jesus uses that example so we need to look at the statement in context. He was talking about healing a person who is seriously ill. I think at one case it was a woman who had been in bed over 18 years. And he said that if you got a beast of burden that is suffering on the Sabbath that you would relieve its suffering, how much more this woman who's Satan is bound for 18 years that her burden should be lose on the Sabbath day. So we're talking about relieving physical suffering of people or emergency service to people or even animals. You know Jesus says he never contented any problem with taking care of the needs of the animals. We used to have goats and people who have cows you gotta milk them on Sabbath.

Drew: Right.

Pastor Doug: You know it's just they're in pain and not only that, they start drawing up if you don’t milk them on a regular basis. So you know there's certain natural things that needs to be done. If a person works in a hospital, if you're a fireman and all of a sudden there's an outbreak of fires in people's houses and lives are at risk, hey, I'd put my coat on and go to work.

Drew: That's right.

Pastor Doug: So those are the things that there are emergency services that are you know where it's life and death and health in people. I would not take remuneration for doing that kind of service. You know what I'm saying?

Drew: What was that word again? [Laughs]

Pastor Doug: Remuneration means I wouldn't be paid for it.

Drew: Right.

Pastor Doug: So I would refuse pay on if you had to do emergency service on the Sabbath, if you work in a hospital or something like that.

Drew: So it would be basically be wrong for me to work just because someone needs a part finished by a certain time.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I wouldn't call that an emergency of life and death issue.

Drew: Right. That’s what I was thinking too cause I know when Jesus spoke of the odds, he didn't speak of you know a piece of wood that might need mailing to a board or something you know.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well there's a slippery gradual slope that you've got to avoid when you make little compromises about what's okay to do on a Sabbath with what's not okay. Let's face it, even people who whether they go to church on Saturday or Sunday very few Christians in the world today are keeping the holy day the way it used to be kept.

Drew: Right.

Pastor Doug: And even Sunday keepers. You know what? And I have respect for people who might disagree but I know some people… Sunday, they never went out to the restaurant. They have all their clothes set out. They never did any farm work. They never went shopping. And today, the average American Christian: They get out of church. They go home. They watch football. They go to the mall. They go to the movies. It's not a holy day. And that happened little by little through compromises.

Drew: Right.

Pastor Doug: And that's you know so that's why you gotta be careful and when someone accuse you of being fanatical whenever you are careful but if you're not careful, you have the other problem.

Drew: Exactly.

Pastor Doug: Keeping compromise sets in and pretty soon, it stops being a holy day.

Drew: Well, that's my main thing. I want to please the Lord and I don’t want to trample His holy day.

Pastor Doug: Amen. He'll bless you.

Jean Ross: Have you seen our study guide, Drew, on the Sabbath called “The Forgotten Day in History?"

Pastor Doug: Yeah, "History's forgotten Day."

Jean Ross: If you haven't called the resource line--and it talks about the Sabbath and addresses some of these issues--the number is 1-800-835-6747. And ask for “History's Forgotten Day” and we'll be happy to send that to you. Marcy is listening on 3ABN from Edmonton, Kentucky. Marcy, welcome to the program.

Marcy: Hello. I really appreciate your program.

Pastor Doug: Well, thank you. How can we help you tonight?

Marcy: I wanted to ask about Exodus 20 verse 11, it says “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is.” That’s the first part of the verse.

Pastor Doug: Right.

Marcy: Would not that indicate that the earth was actually created during the creation week since it says that he made the earth, the sea and the heavens--

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Marcy: --on the 6th day of creation?

Pastor Doug: Yes, for in 6 days, the Lord made heaven and earth. Now when it says heaven, keep in mind there are--

Marcy: ---the atmosphere which we're talking about.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, there are three different words for heaven in Hebrew. And this is talking about the atmosphere around the earth. So you understand that?

Marcy: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Marcy: But you know I hear you discuss earlier about whether the earth might have been around for a long time.

Pastor Doug: Oh, I see what you---

Marcy: (inaudible 47:04).

Pastor Doug: I understand what you're asking now. Well, I wouldn't say that this verse negates that possibility because when the Lord says on the Sabbath commandment, “For in 6 days the Lord made the heaven and the earth and the sea,” he did create the elements of the earth, everything that they put on the earth and forming the earth, he made that in 6 days. The matter may have already been here. And whether it was or not you know I--that’s not shaking my faith one way or the other--but just the way it's worded in Genesis, when it says, “And the earth was void without form,” it sounds there was something here that was chaotic and void and he began to--

Marcy: Would it not though this would... Wouldn't this verse then mean that the chaotic and void earth was actually created on the first day?

Pastor Doug: No, let me explain why.

Marcy: Of the creation week.

Pastor Doug: Supposed that I tell you that I am going to create a race and I've got a lump of clay and in 24 hours I spent it on my wheel and I make a vase and I say I made that vase in 24 hours. You would never contend, you wouldn't say “Well, you didn't really make the vase because the clay was already there.” You’d never argue that. You say, “Yeah, you did make a vase in 24 hours." So---

Marcy: It's not the Bible that says he created the earth from nothing.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well he creates everything from nothing.

Marcy: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: God speaks some things come in existence. Whatever was here when God started creating, He made that too. We're just not sure when He made it.

Marcy: It seems to me though that if you're speculating that the earth was around before creation week, you started down the slippery slope of evolution.

Pastor Doug: Well, for one thing like I said I’m not adamant about that, I’m just saying when you read the Bible that's how it reads in Genesis chapter 1 when it says the earth was. It doesn't say God said let there be matter. See he always says "Let there be...” you know this and this and this and he named the different elements but he never comes out and says “Let there be a blob of dirt.” So it’s once like that was...

Marcy: So that's the reason that I look on to Exodus 20:11 to find out exactly what he meant.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you know I'm looking forward to getting to the kingdom and say “Lord, which came first or did you on the 6th day of creation make the first day of creation? Did you make the material, the planet or did you start shaping and creating the planet?” And I wish we had a video of that day and someday we're gonna have that answer. Good question. Appreciate that, Marcy, and still thinking about it. I don’t have all the answers.

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Rick listening on 3ABN radio from Ashfield, Massachusetts. Rick, welcome to the program.

Rick: How you doing pastors?

Pastor Doug: Good.

Rick: Good. My question is about why haven't we found… You think giants… We find bones of dinosaurs and all the remnants of that but why don’t you think we found any of the giants that live back pre anti (inaudible 50:21) period?

Pastor Doug: Well, actually I think we have. There are a number of places in the world where you can go today and look in museums and see fossils that are giants. And the way I've heard it explained before is well, these were freaks. On the island of Malta, there's a museum. I've been there. And they got a giant human skull. It's just enormous. It's like it must have born to Goliath’s big brother. And there's different parts in the world where you can see human femur bones and different bones that are much bigger than they should be or even human foot prints in bedrock. I've been to the Paluxy River in Texas where there's human foot prints that look like they're 18 inches long. So you don’t' hear the media and the evolution especially don’t want to highlight these anomalies because it just cast doubts on their theories but there are fossils and you know if you search the internet, you can even find some of the pictures of the museums that have them.

Rick: Oh, okay. I was just curious about that because you don’t hear much about it.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, that's a good question. Now keep in mind, most of these giant people that live in the world lived before the flood as oppose to after the flood. That even just a hundred years ago there was a young man, Robert Waldo--Is it Waldo or Wadlow? I can’t remember. Waldow, I think—Anyway, he was over 8 ft. tall.

Rick: Oh, yeah.

Pastor Doug: And that was just less than a hundred years ago.

Rick: Okay. I was just curious ‘coz you know we find these bedrocks of thousands of dinosaurs and you know if we were able to find something like that you know hundreds you know over a hundreds of giants, boy that would be really...

Pastor Doug: That would be convincing.

Rick: (inaudible 52:11) of evolution.

Pastor Doug: They may find some someday. Now keep in mind, one reason that you're going to find a dinosaurs and mammals and crustaceans and different creatures and different layers of mud is because their body mass and the oxygen level of their body and the fat, they all float and sink at different times so when the flood came, different creatures bloated and floated and other ones sank and they all got buried with their groups.

Jean Ross: And of course when the flood waters came it was the human beings that would go to the highest ground first. They were the ones who try to escape. The animals probably took a while before the waters actually came upon them. You've got the landslides but the human beings were the ones looking. They were aware of what was happening they were the ones that made it to the highest ground first.

Pastor Doug: Yup, they used their intelligent advantage. Good question, Rick. I wonder if we have time for one more, Pastor Ross.

Jean Ross: All right. Let’s go to Eric. He's listening on the internet and he's calling from Indonesia. Eric, welcome to the program.

Eric: Thank you. Hi, Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Eric.

Eric: This is my first time. First time live on your program.

Pastor Doug: Well, bless your heart. We're glad we got a call from Indonesia. Your question tonight.

Eric: Yeah, can we Christian go to theater to watch movie for instance taking your children to a theater to watch cartoons or religious films because there are some Christians have negative image or negative perception about this thing. Does the Bible say anything about this? Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Well, good question. The Bible does say to avoid the appearance of evil and every now and then, the theater will put out something that probably is edifying. I’ve seen a promo for a recent movie talking about evolution and creation and it's a--Oh, I can't remember guys-- the name of the movie is called "Expel." And I’m looking forward to it getting in the video store so I can see that but I won’t go to the theater, Eric, because 90% of the movies that you're gonna find in a theater… First of all, you pay too much. Secondly, the environment is not generally Christian environment. Third, most of the movies that you see in a theater are not Christian movies so by your going, folks might be assuming that it’s your regular practice and you also go see the R-rated movies that are on the theater. And so you know I don’t think it's the best environment. If there is the occasional acceptable video that it's produced by the media that's in a theater, what you may as well wait till it comes out on a DVD. You pay $3 and the whole family gets to see it rather than paying $30 and [laughs] I mean to go to you know a questionable environment. And so that's the practice in the Batchelor family. We don't go to the theater and ... If there's an occasional good video and they're very rarely few and far between that you could call good, you have to wait till it comes out on DVD. So that's the way we handle that. I don’t know if that helps. You know the illustration I used to explain that, Eric, is you can get orange juice in the super market and you can get orange juice in a bar. Where is the best place to buy your orange juice? I'm not gonna go to a bar and get it.

Eric: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Because the environment is too expensive and it's not a good witness. I'm gonna get mine at the regular supermarket.

Eric: I see. I see.

Pastor Doug: So if there is something good that's occasionally served in a bar, bar may not be the best place to get it.

Eric: I see. Thanks a lot, Pastor.

Pastor Doug: All right. I appreciate that Eric. Hey, welcome. Call us again from Indonesia. What time is it there right now?

Eric: Okay. It's about 10 o'clock in the morning.

Pastor Doug: Oh, bless your heart. Ten o’clock, you're probably... You're in Monday morning, aren’t you?

Eric: That's right.

Pastor Doug: Hey, so we're speaking to the future now, Pastor Ross. [Pastor Ross laughs] Eric is on the other side of the date line and here we are at Sunday and we're talking on Monday, what do you know? Hey, we appreciate your question, Eric. Give us a call another time.

Eric: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug: God bless.

Well friends, I don’t think it would be fair for us to take another caller because we've only got about 45 seconds left. Oh, there you have it. I was right [Background music]

Jean Ross: There’s the music.

Pastor Ross: I have no control of that music. The engineer does that. But we just want you to know that so much more of what we offer in Amazing Facts, you can get by going to the website. Most of the books, not all that we've mentioned tonight, you can read them for free on the internet. They can all be made available there on the internet either for purchase, we can ship them to you. And in addition, we have TV programs you can watch on the internet. You'll see a TV radio log of the other programs that we've got there at the amazingfacts.org website. Please don’t forget the children's meetings that are coming up and make sure and register your home or your group if you wanna bring your young friends over to your house and help them find the Lord. It's called Amazing Adventure. The website is amazingfactskids.org. And while you’re there, you'll see a number of other links and interesting things that have to do with the program. We'd love to hear from you. Contact us at the website. And remember it's all about Jesus who set you free.

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