Born Twice

Date: 09/07/2008 
When Chad and Carrie McCartney say their infant daughter, Macy Hope, had been born again, they aren’t referring to religion. Their miracle baby really was born twice.
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Hello, friends, this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact! When Chad and Carrie McCartney say their infant daughter, Macy Hope, had been born again, they aren’t referring to religion. Their miracle baby really was born twice. During Carrie’s 23rd week of pregnancy, the couple went to their obstetrician’s office for a simple ultrasound procedure, to determine if they’ll be having a little boy or a girl. At that time, it was discovered the McCartneys’ baby girl had a non-cancerous, but deadly tumor growing off her tailbone. The fast-growing tumor was robbing vital blood from their baby. Without medical intervention their unborn child had no chance. The Texas children’s hospital in Houston was one of only 3 hospitals in the world that could perform such a specialized and risky surgery.

After being told there is less than a 10% chance the baby is going to make it, the parents wanted to pick a name fitting before the perilous procedure. They chose the name Macy Hope. The first birth was about six months into Carrie’s pregnancy, when fetal surgeons led by Doctor Darrell Cass gently took the five-ounce baby from Carrie’s womb to remove the tumor. The surgery went flawlessly. Then back into mommy’s tummy she went to heal and grow for two more months. Then Macy was born the second time, on May 3rd, when the McCartneys welcomed their perfectly healthy baby girl into the world. Friends, did you know that the Bible teaches that if you’re only born once, you die twice, but if you’re born twice, you only die once? Stay with us, we’re going to learn more, as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

Welcome to Bible Answers Live, brought to you by Amazing Facts ministries. Are you looking for a clear, concise answer to your most challenging Bible question? Maybe you are struggling to understand difficult passages of Scripture. If so, you’ve come to the right place. Join us now as we open God’s Word to discover His will and find honest practical answers to your Bible-related questions. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question, call us Sundays from 7 to 8 pm, Pacific Standard Time at 800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 800-463-7297. Now let’s join our host, author, speaker and Evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.


Pastor Doug Batchelor: Welcome once again, listening friends, to a fresh installment of Bible Answers Live, and this is live. My name is Pastor Doug Batchelor. Pastor Jëan Ross that you just heard on the opening was pre-recorded because right now he is in Texas, preparing for our upcoming series for children that will be broadcast around the world via satellite from Richardson, Texas. It’s called Amazing Adventure, and if you know any young people between the ages of 8 and 12 and they’d like to know more about Jesus and being a Christian, just go to the Amazing Facts’ website. There, at the homepage, you’ll see a lot more information about the exciting things that are going to be happening starting this coming week, September 12 through 20, we’re going to broadcast this series called Amazing Adventure. I wanted to have one more opportunity before we get to Texas to do another live program, to take your Bible questions. I’d like to begin with a word of prayer.

“Loving Lord, we thank you again for the privilege we have of visiting with our friends from around the country and other parts of the world to study the blessed book, the Bible. We pray, Lord, that you’ll take charge of this program as your own property, that you will possess every mind and spirit so that your word and your truth is exalted. Be with us Lord to Your glory’s sake. And we pray in the name of your Son, Amen!”

Well, we heard an amazing fact as we begun, friends, about this couple, Chad and Carrie McCartney. Their little daughter was born twice, and I closed with something of a riddle. The Bible says that if you’re only born once, you die twice, but if you’re born twice, you die once. I think most of our friends know what I mean. I say you need to be born twice, if you only want to die once. If you are born the natural birth, which we all are, and then you’re born the spiritual birth, the new birth. You must have that second birth. Then, you may die physically, but you only die once and you’re resurrected. On the other hand, if you are only born once and you do not have the spiritual birth, the Bible says you experience what is called the second death. You can read about that, for instance, in Revelation 20:6: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first Resurrection”, of course, it says there in 1 Thessalonians 4, that the dead in Christ rise first. So that’s why Revelation 20 says: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first Resurrection”. On such, the second death has no power.

The lost that are only born once, not only are they raised in to Resurrection to be judged, but then they’re cast into that Lake of Fire, Revelation says, and they are punished according to their works and they experience that second death. If you don’t want to experience that second death, you must be born twice. So friends, we have a special offer, to talk to you about that new birth you can have, that second birth. I hope that if you are not sure that you have this gift of everlasting life, you’ll make a simple phone call and get the free offer tonight it’s a book called Three Steps to Heaven and it’s free just by your asking. If you call the toll-free number 800-835-6747 and ask for the book Three Steps to Heaven, we’d like for you to know that you’d had that second birth and you don’t need to worry about the second death. Also, I want to remind you if you want to call, I think we still have one or two lines open. Here into the studio, it’s a toll-free call, 800-GOD-SAYS for your Bible questions, its 800-463-7297. Now, you be patient with me because I’m going to see if I can both talk and pick up the phones at the same time. So why don’t we start? We’re going to talk to Travis who’s calling from Concorde, Oklahoma. Did I say that right, Colcord, Oklahoma and calling in on the internet. Travis, you’re on the air.

Travis: My question is, why did God create Satan or Lucifer if he knew that he was going to end up turning against Him?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, that is a good question. For one thing, all of God’s intelligent creatures, He wants our love and you can’t force love. If God pre-programmed each one of His creatures, that they would have to love him, it isn’t really love. It’s like you making a tape playing, a tape recording saying “I love you Travis, I love you Travis”. Well, that one wouldn’t make you feel very good because you made it do it. God did what a lot of parents do every few minutes around the world. They decide to have children and they take a risk that those children are not going to love them. You hope to love you, and so, God showed that he is a God of love. There is no greater demonstration of God giving his creatures freedom and a free will aside from the fact that He would even go to make Lucifer. Now, Lucifer was not made, you realize, sinful. He was made a perfect angel, but he was perfectly free and he chose to rebel against God.

Travis: Ok.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It’s an amazing thing. We do have a lesson, I’ll send you a free copy, it’s a beautiful, fully illustrated lesson, filled with amazing facts and it’s called ‘Did God Make a Devil?’. You know, why would God make a devil? If you’d like a free copy of that, Travis, I hope you’ll call the resource number. Once again it’s 800-835-6747. As a matter of fact, I should tell our friends that all our numbers here are 800, so I’m just going to tell you the last seven digits. Now we’re going to talk next to Bryson, who is calling in from Mary Esther, Florida. Bryson, your question?

Bryson: How are you tonight?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Very well!

Bryson: I’ve got a question for you. I’ve got my parents who keep Sunday, I do not. I keep Saturday as the Sabbath. They keep Sunday like most other folks, they go to church, they’re Ernest in their beliefs but they also believe that it’s ok to go shopping and eating out and all that stuff. With me knowing that Sunday is not necessarily the correct, or the Biblical Sabbath, I guess it’s the best way to put it, is it wrong of me to participate in those activities with them, because it’s almost promoting that behavior that I know necessarily is not correct?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you’re talking about on their Sunday.

Bryson: Correct.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, I’d say by all means. You could just make it clear to them that, first of all by your example, they would see that you believe in keeping the Sabbath holy. What I think it’s interesting, it’s very easy to show from reading just a little bit of recent history that most Sunday-keeping Christians in North America used to keep Sunday very carefully. You just go back for two generations. Folks did not go shopping on Sundays, they would not go to the movies, they did not work in their fields, they did not go to a football game. A lot of folks felt that that was a conflict for Sabbath-keeping of course they believed that that was the first day of the week. By your example, you would show them how the Sabbath is kept on the right day, and I would say that Bible says six days you should work and rest on the Sabbath, so nothing wrong with you doing other activities with them on Sunday.

Bryson: Ok, well, I appreciate it. I just wanted to make sure.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You can just let them know, say “I would never do this on my Sabbath, but since this is not...”

Bryson: They also believe that they shouldn’t do these things or at least my mom, she’s voiced that, but they still do.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It sounds like you have a good relationship. So just keep being a good example.

Bryson: I’m working on it. I appreciate it!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: All right, thanks for your question, Bryson. God bless! Calling next from Tallahassee we have Rodney. Welcome to the program, Rodney! Your question!

Rodney: Hey, how are you doing, Pastor Doug! Listen, 2 Samuel 24:13 and 1 Chronicles 21:12. In 2 Samuel 24:13 it reads “So Gad came to David and told him...”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, wait, you gave me two references. The second one is 1 Chronicles?

Rodney: 1 Chronicles 21:12.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’m trying to get both out here. Go ahead.

Rodney: It reads, “So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee”, but you find in 1 Chronicles 21:12 it says three years. I was wondering, I know that the Bible doesn’t contradict itself I was trying to figure out how that tied in.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’m reading here, on a commentary on this verse, of course scholars encountered this many years ago. There is a very close letter in Hebrew, this is the Old Testament so it’s written in Hebrew, the word is ‘zaien’, ‘seven’ was mistaken for a similar character in the Hebrew lettering for ‘gamel’, which is ‘three’. A little piece of that letter is missing from a manuscript and one of the scribes mistranslated that as ‘seven’ when it should be ‘three’ according to what they’re saying here. Something like that doesn’t shake my faith in the Bible. There’s another answer, and this would be probably a more generic answer. Famines are hard to measure. It’s like if I say “When did our recession begin?” Some people don’t think we are in a recession yet. Do you know what I’m saying? A famine is like a recession, in that as long as my spring and well still has water in it, I don’t think it’s a famine. When your well goes dry, you say the famine started. Some people in the country maybe said that the famine was three years, and others said “Oh, no, that was seven years.” That can be another answer for this, but the scholars seem to think that there is just a little tittle missing on one of the characters in Hebrew and it was mistranslated.

Rodney: Now, would a Septuagint help me?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, it would. If you went to the Septuagint, that’s of course a Greek translation, you might find that it’s corrected there. If I had time to study this out, I’ve got great commentaries on my laptop, I could probably do that for you. I think we’d be over our budget for the question time. I hope that helps a little, Rodney. There are little... there’s other besides this, some little places in the Bible where you can see... In 1 Chronicles and Kings, and Samuel sometimes record the same events and there’s little discrepancies, but that doesn’t shake my faith, but actually it reinforces my faith in the Bible that they didn’t just copy each other.

Rodney: I’m a Bible student would you have any suggestions on what I can add to my library that would help me understand the Scriptures?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Do you have a computer?

Rodney: Yes, I do, but...

Pastor Doug Batchelor: There’s a free Bible software, you can make a donation to help support them, but it’s called, and it’s free. I like it because it’s got scores of the old commentaries, some of the great theologians like Adam Clark, and John Wesley, and Matthew Henry and others. I used that quite a bit, and I found out it’s hard to improve on their wisdom. So that’s one thing. By the way, you can get the Septuagint actually I think it’s one of the books you can download with e-sword, so you have that there, too.

Rodney: All right, great! Thank you!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: All rights then, God bless, Rodney! Appreciate your questions. Going next to talk with, this will be good, we’re talking with Israel, calling from Bronx, New York, listening WMCA. Welcome Israel, you’re on the air!

Israel: Good evening, Pastor, how are you doing!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Very well, how about you?

Israel: I’m doing good, thank you very much. My first reference comes from Leviticus 18:16 and it says “Thou shall not uncover the nakedness of thy brother’s wife”. My second verse comes from Genesis 38:18, and here says “And Judah said to Onan Go onto your brother’s wife and marry her and raise your seed to thy brother.” It sounds contradictory to me.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, first of all, what you’re reading there in Leviticus is talking about marrying your own family. In other words, if a brother marries his sister, there’s going to be a higher probability of genetic defects in the children. But if a brother marries his sister-in-law, his sister-in-law may have absolutely no similarity in heritage. They can be removed by 20 generations. Now, in the Bible times of the Old Testament, because they had no social security program and so many of the men died in war, there were often many women per man. As a matter of fact you can read about that in Isaiah 4:1 where it says “Seven women will lay hold on one man.” saying, “look, we’ll support ourselves, we just need a husband.” If a person’s brother died and left his wife, than he was supposed to take his wife into his home, his sister-in-law and treat her as a wife. I know that sounds very strange to us, in our culture today, and I don’t believe that the Lord is endorsing polygamy because certainly that was not His original plan, but the Lord did a lot of things where He winked at the times. This was a case of that, but He wasn’t encouraging incest, because when a brother took his sister-in-law, they weren’t kin, they weren’t relatives. See what I’m saying? If a brother marries his sister, they have the same mother and father, there’s chance of genetic problems. If a brother marries his sister-in-law, well, he can be from Australia, and she can be from New Zeeland or... Do you know what I’m saying?

Israel: Pastor Doug, are you saying that Onan is not the same father with Judah?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Onan was a son of Judah. When the sons of Judah died, Judah told his sons to take...

Israel: Ok, so Onan is not the same... You know... They’re not related, the one who died is not related to Onan? Is that what you’re saying?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: No. The sons of Judah that married Tamar were brothers, but it wasn’t the same as they marrying their own sister. They were marrying Tamar who is not even a Jew. You don’t have the genetic problems there. I’m hoping that that makes some sense to you. Anyway, it’s not really a contradiction, but the law, that Levitical law about taking your sister-in-law or being married to your brother-in-law, that’s of course past away. I appreciate your question, Israel, and we’re going to probably move along and take Max next. Max is calling also from the internet, from Brooklyn, New York. Welcome to the program, Max!

Max: Hi, good evening Pastor Doug!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening!

Max: My question comes from Mark 13:32 “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father”. I was wondering, is this verse saying that Jesus, the Son, when He was on Earth was He not aware of the Second Coming? Or is it speaking in the present time, when Jesus went to Heaven and He doesn’t know of the Second Coming?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes. When Jesus was on the Earth, He laid aside, obviously, much of His divinity when He became a man. When He was on the Earth, He did not have all knowledge of omnipotence swimming around in his head. And so Christ was saying, “Look, I don’t even know the day and the hour, right now.” Jesus had divine truth revealed to Him by the Father when He was here on Earth the way that we can. The Holy Father can give to any human revelation. Jesus walked with God the way we can walk with God and He had constant revelation, but He didn’t know the day and hour of His coming. You can be sure that Jesus right now, the right hand of the Father, being God, He does know. Do you see what I’m saying? God doesn’t have a place on His calendar that he’s covered up with His hand saying “Jesus, I can’t tell you when you’re going back because you might spill the beans.” Why would the Father hide that from Him? Do you know what I’m saying? So, obviously, He knows now, but when He was on Earth, He didn’t know. He didn’t have all knowledge.

Max: All right, thank you!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Let me give you just one more example of that. Jesus, when He was a baby, was a real baby, right? His Mother probably changed His diapers, right? So, can you picture here little baby Jesus, two years old, having all this knowledge swimming around in His head? No, He grew up like a normal child. The Father revealed to Him more and more as He grew.

Max: Ok, it makes sense.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: All right? I appreciate your question, thanks a lot. Talking next with Jean, calling from North Bergen, New Jersey, listening also on WMCA. Welcome, Jean, you’re on the air!

Jean: Hey, Pastor Doug!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: How is it going?

Jean: All right! I’m so happy I got you! I had to throw my television away because it really got me upset. How can we prove from the Bible that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and not some copy that they claim from like the Egyptian gods, like Mithra who claimed to do the same things that he did before Jesus Christ? You know, die and rise from the dead....

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, there were a number of pagan gods that talk about rising. Keep in mind the Devil reads the Bible! The devil knew that the God’s son is going to come and he tried to create as many counterfeits as he could, in advance. That shouldn’t surprise us, you know, the devil as a counterfeit for just about every truth of God. Just because they were pagan gods that made those claims does not discount the fact that what the Bible says... There’s so much evidence in the Bible that predates these Greek gods, that you can go all the way back to Moses who wrote about Abraham. When Abraham is walking up the mountain with his son, there you’ve got the Father and the Son going to the place of sacrifice, and Isaac has the wood on his back, Jesus had the Cross on His back, and God says or Abraham said “God will provide Himself a sacrifice.” This is what he said to Isaac. When they get on top of the mountain, the father offers his son. These are all incredibly clear, powerful types of the Messiah, Jesus coming, the Son of God dying. As a matter of fact, even with Abraham and Isaac, the substitute, they found a ram stuck by his horns in the thorn bush, in a thicket, you’ve got a ram with a crown of thorns. Just the symbolism is so powerful. The journey from Hebron to Mount Moriah was a three-and-a-half-day journey. Jesus from His ministry to His crucifixion was three and a half years. You find all through the Old Testament, all these prophecies that pre-date these Greek gods and some of the Roman gods. They were really copying from the Bible.

Jean: From the Bible... Yes, that was really bothering me.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: The prophecies of Isaiah chapter 53 are of course the most astounding, so clear. King David who lived 1000 years before Jesus, David lived before Alexander the Great, he says in Songs 22 the very same things that Jesus says on the cross “My God, my God why have you forsaken me? They pierced my hands and my feet, they divided my garments, they gambled for my clothing”, all these very specific details that surrounded the scenes of the cross, David utters them 1000 years in advance.

Jean: That’s terrific. I just wrote that down as you were saying it.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: The Old Testament is so powerful evidence of the authenticity of Jesus as the Messiah.

Jean: Real quick. Malachi, when they said there’s going to send the signs of the last days... Is there a last day prophet right now, claiming the end of time?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I’m sure there’s plenty, but I’m not sure they’re the true ones, just a number of false prophets. Malachi 4 is what you’re talking about, where he says “Remember the Law of Moses, behold I’m sending you Elijah before the great dreadful day of the Lord.” Keep in mind, both Moses and Elijah did appear to Jesus. You can read it in Mark 9. And so, to some extent that was fulfilled, but Elijah’s going to come again. There’s going to be a group of people that will come in the spirit and the power of Elijah, the way John the Baptist did. John the Baptist prepared the world in the spirit and power of Elijah for the first coming of Jesus. I think the Lord is going to have messengers in the last days that will come in the spirit and power of Elijah and John the Baptist to prepare the world for the second coming of Jesus. I do believe that the gift of prophecy is still alive. I personally don’t know of any genuine prophets right now. There may be some out there, so I cannot be a fair judge.

Jean: I appreciate so much, you helped me out so much, because I was getting worried...

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Don’t worry, it’s the truth, Jean. God bless, I appreciate your call! I’m wondering if we’ve got time, I’m going to see if I can talk to Chris, real quick. Chris, we’ve got about three minutes before the break, can we try and take a question?

Chris: Hello, hi, Pastor Doug! How are you?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Very good, I’ve just got about three minutes and we’re going to have to take a break.

Chris: I’ll be succinct in my question. I have a question regarding the vice-presidential candidate, Sarah Palin. I’m wondering what does the Bible say with regard to a woman being married and having so many children, she has five children and one is with special needs, and taking on the role of such an authoritative and encompassing position concurrently. What would the Lord say about that?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I haven’t got any messages lately specifically on this issue, but it does make you pause. The position of vice-president, and I applaud her accomplishments, don’t misunderstand...

Chris: Yes, and I do as well.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It is very demanding being a parent, father or mother, and it’s very demanding being a vice-president. I would just hope, if this moves forward, she would have a brilliant sense of delegation so she can still achieve what she needs through a good support staff and still have some consistency with her younger children. But, you know, that’s a challenge whether you’re a man or a woman. Children need their fathers and so many kids grow up without their fathers around because dad’s off working. Parents need to really pray they can prioritize spending some time with their kids and delegating and managing their time well.

Chris: With women traditionally being more in the home and as a steady presence, do you think somehow that it dilutes the strength of the family, with a mother not there?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I think it’s important especially for the younger children, but you know what it can be another perspective on that? Can you imagine how exciting it would be for her younger daughter to be growing up with mom as a vice-president and being able to accompany her on some of those international trips? I guess Chelsea Clinton was still pretty young when the Clintons first went to the White House and she got some international exposure. What an education that would be! Do you know what I mean?

Chris: Is there anything that you could recommend of your reading material, as far as this question?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, the closest thing... I just wrote a book that really deals with women and ministry, it’s a different issue, but it does address some of these things. I would be happy to send you a free copy of Women in Ministry if you call the resource number. I appreciate your question, Chris, and that’s 800-835-6747. We’ll send you a free copy of Women in Ministry.

Friends we are committed to taking a break, whether we want to or not. Halfway through the hour, we have the other half to come. So call your friends, tell them Bible Answers Live is live. If they’ve got a Bible question, we still have a couple of lines open. Give us a call! It’s 800-GOD-SAYS. In the meantime, check out the website: We’ll be right back.


Narrator: Bible Answers Live returning back in just a moment. Remember to tune in to pass Doug’s daily radio program, ‘Wonders in the Word’, and our weekly television broadcast, Amazing Facts Presents, which is aired on major networks including ABC Family, BET, The Church Channel, Vision TV and Superstation WGM. Go to to find a station in your area.

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Welcome back to Bible Answers Live with Pastor Doug Batchelor. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible-related question, you can call us from 7 to 8 p.m. Pacific Standard Time on Sundays and receive clear, honest answers directly from Scripture. Call 800-GODSAYS, that’s 800-463-7297. Now, please join us as we look through God’s word to more Bible Answers Live with author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.


Pastor Doug Batchelor: We are back, friends! This is Bible Answers Live, if you have gotten on board somewhere along the way, it’s a live, international, interactive Bible study, and we spend about an hour every week just taking people’s Bible questions and looking at the Blessed Book to find the answers. My name is Doug Batchelor, you just heard Pastor Jean Ross, but he was fooling you because it is pre-recorded. He’s in Texas right now and so I’m now in the studio with our support team on the other side of the glass. I just want to remind our friends, this kids’ program is beginning this Friday night. It’s called Amazing Adventure and you can watch that on the internet, on either 3ABN if you’ve got satellite, Hope Channel or any of those internet streaming sites. While we’re talking about internet television, I don’t know if you’ve checked out the website. Our friends listening on the radio may not know that 80% of what Amazing Facts does is TV and 20% is radio. I’m right now, I got my laptop open, and I don’t want you to think that I’m narcissistic, but I’m watching myself on TV on my laptop right now. Looks like I’m talking about the mark of the beast. So you go to and you’ll see that. Don’t leave the radio program yet, because we’re going to go back to the phones right now. Let me see, who’s next. It’s Henry, from Bronx, New York listening on the internet. Henry, you’re on air with Bible Answers Live!

Henry: How are you doing, Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Very well, and your question tonight!

Henry: My question is how do you determine God’s will for your life? What part of the Scriptures can be used?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Very good question! As a matter of fact, that’s such a good question that I should tell you I just finished a book on the subject called How do you Know God’s Will?. I wish I had all the notes in front of me, because I outlined about 12 prominent ways that you could determine God’s will. Let me just give you a few of them because time won’t allow me to go through all 12 of them. One of them, that is the most important, as a matter of fact if you get point no. 1 down, everything else is easier. Jesus said in the Gospel of John if any man will do my will, he shall know of the doctrine whether I speak of God. So the first detail of knowing God’s will is a willingness to do whatever God says. The biggest battle people fight is really saying “Lord, I want to know your will and whatever it is, I’m going to do it.” Once you get to the place where you say “Lord, whatever you want me to do, I’m going to do it”, you’ve really shifted some of the responsibility back on God to reveal His will, because you say “I’ll do it, Lord, just help me know”. Now, that brings us to some of the other points. We need to search for His will, of course His word is our lamp to our feet, so we look in His word and we’ll often find guidance in His word. We commit our way into the Lord, He will direct our paths. The Bible says in Proverbs ‘In the multitude of counsel there is safety’. Find Christian counselor that you trust and you go to them and say ‘I’m praying about God’s will regarding this or that, what do you think, from knowing me, God wants me to do?’ Get people that you trust and have a good relationship with the Lord, folks who have their whole life together. You don’t want to get counsel from people who are coming apart as it seems. So that’s another very important principle. Look for providence that is guiding you, Henry. Sometimes God will open doors providentially that He wants you to go through, and you’ll notice that He’s pulling up bridges that He doesn’t want you to cross. Sometimes you’ll have that evidence. Then there’s the evidence of God speaking to your spirit. He’ll place certain desires on your heart. God often leads us to impress in us with a sense of passion about a certain project or a direction. You combine all these things together, sometimes it even helps if you’re analytical. Make a list and say “Lord, I’m praying about a direction”. It might be your praying about a relationship. And, you know, there are several criteria you can line up from the word of God. One thing I can tell you to do is keep checking the Amazing Facts website. We will have that new book up there, soon. But it’s not there yet, so I don’t want to send out a false signal, but it is finished and it’s through editing. Hopefully we’ll get that up soon. You know what? We do have a magazine. Let me think about this. I forgot, the summary of that book is on our next magazine. You can either get it on the internet or they’ll send you a hard copy. The first article is ‘How to Know the Will of God’. I forgot, we summarized it for the magazine. So, there’s a few tips. I hope that helps a little, Henry.

Henry: Thank you very much, Pastor Doug!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: God bless, you have a good evening! Then I keep going to Brooklyn and talk to, I hope I say your name right, Auriel, Auriel?

Auriel: Yes, that’s right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Brooklyn, New York, listening on the internet. Your question?

Auriel: My question has to do with Revelation 12:4 where it talks about the one third of the stars.I also read a book where it talks about that. Originally it was one half.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Close to half.

Auriel: It was one half, and then it became one third. The portion that, I guess, went back or the portion that decided to stay with God. Then Jesus Christ dying for humanity, did He also die for them as well?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you know, that’s a good question, but I don’t see any evidence in the Bible where it says anything about angels being redeemed. What you’re doing now is kind of creative deduction, but there’s really no plain Scripture where it says that angels are redeemed. It does talk about fallen angels that are kept in everlasting chains awaiting destruction. When Jesus cast the devils out of the Demoniac in Mark 5 they say ‘Have You come to torment us before our time?’ Satan knows his time is short. The fallen angels that are lost know that their doom is impending.

Auriel: The only reason I asked that is because obviously, those that went back, the confusion they had, because it talks about confusion, wasn’t that considered sin? The fact that they even thought about leaving.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Being confused is not a sin. In fact being tempted is not a sin, because Jesus was tempted. So, you know, if a person has confusion about something, sin is not being confused, sin is knowing what God wants and not doing it, deliberately going against the will of God, that’s sin. As a matter of fact, there are some people who will be in heaven who broke God’s law but they didn’t know they were breaking it. An example would be some of the patriarchs who maybe had slaves or they had too many wives and, you know, that’s not God’s perfect will. But He winked at their ignorance, that’s Acts 17:30. But back to your question about the angels: I’m sure that Jesus was just as merciful with the angels as he is with humans. I mean, God loves all of his creatures. But I really don’t see any evidence that some of the angels needed redemption and forgiveness. That would require Jesus to die on their behalf. And all the statements in the New Testament that talk about the death of Christ, it applies His atonement to people, I don’t see anywhere where it applies it to spirits or principalities or angels. But it is a creative question, I appreciate that.

Auriel: Ok.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thank you very much, Auriel, and we’re going to go back and start at the begging of the line and talk with Rosemary, who’s calling from Bakersfield, California on KFHL. Welcome, Rosemary!

Rosemary: Thank you, thank you, and glad to be there!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, your question!

Rosemary: Ok, it’s just a Trivia and it isn’t anything specific for any special verse. I’ve been reading through all the Kings, like 1 and 2 Kings, 1, 2 Samuel and so forth and I’ve noticed that almost a hundred percent of the time the mother is mentioned, the mother of a king. I was wondering what that means.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, that is interesting, because in the genealogy of Jesus, out of all the men that are mentioned, it only mentions four women. I believe it’s Rahab, Tamar, Ruth and Sarah, they are the four that are mentioned. But among the kings – and some of the kings had several wives – it would usually tell who the queen mother was, whether it was Bathsheba…Solomon, his first wife was the daughter of the pharaoh of Egypt, and that was, I think, the mother of Rehoboam, the son of Solomon. So it usually did tell who the queen mother was, but probably that’s to help explain what the alliances were. Many times these kings married the daughters of other nations to help develop a treaty of peace. So it would list the mothers’ names to help explain they were not Israelites and it was letting us know that by saying…You know, for instance, Jezebel was a pagan queen, her father was the king of another country, she was a pagan queen. So it gives us a little insight into why she tried to change the religion.

Rosemary: I also noticed in King David, when it lists all of his sons, that he also lists the mothers of his sons. I thought that was kind of interesting.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It is unique because many times in the Bible it talks about the boys and it never mentions the mothers. And it’s frustrating sometimes, because you read about Samson and you hear of Manoah, Samson’s father and it talks about Samson’s mother, but it never tells us her name.

Rosemary: Yes, I know, sometimes it doesn’t give the name.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So I know it does for Haim [?] and some of the others, but yes, I know just what you mean. Interesting question, I appreciate that, Rosemary. I hope I’ve given you some information that’s helpful. God bless you, I appreciate! All right, we’re going to talk next to Greg, calling from New York, New York on WMCA. Greg, you’re on the air with Bible Answers Live.

Greg: Thanks, Pastor, welcome back.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thank you, good to be back.

Greg: Question regarding Genesis 4:14. It says: ‘Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence I will be a restless wanderer on the Earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.’ Now, Pastor Douglas, if there’s only four people, according to my readings, on Earth, who were the people that Cain is talking about?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, there are probably more than four, because you read on here and it says Cain took his wife, as a matter of fact, two more verses: ‘And Cain knew his wife and she conceived, and bare Enoch’. So Adam and Eve, if you go to Genesis 5, it gives you more detail and it says that Adam and Eve had sons and daughters. So right away, keep in mind, before man sinned, he used to eat from the Tree of Life. The vitality and the health was perfect in Adam and Eve. They lived 900 years. If you start to say a person’s going to live 900 years and they’re going to be healthy and fertile for 300 years having children and, you know, it tells that Adam and Eve had sons and daughters, they could have had a whole tribe of children that are not named. It’s just naming the firstborn and the oldest. Then Cain, knowing that humans were going to proliferate, knowing that God had said to Adam and Eve ‘Be fruitful and multiply’, in anticipation of that he said: ‘Look, the world is going to be full of people, I’m going to be a marked man as the first murderer. They’re going to kill me’. So he’s making the statement in anticipation of people multiplying in the world. But you’re right, there were only his siblings right then.

Greg: Ok. What do you recommend reading in the morning? Because I just sometimes have a hard time knowing what to read in the morning and what to read in the evening.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You mean in your Bible study and devotions?

Greg: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, it’s good to mix things up a little bit. Is your mind a little clear in the morning?

Greg: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You may want to pick up the Bible in the morning, the New Testament and, depending if you want to go through the Gospels or go through the Epistles. Then I’d get another good devotional book. I’ve got the book…Charles Spurgeon’s Morning and Evening, and I read that frequently in the morning, I find it very inspirational. I read a great book by E. G. White called Maranatha, talking about the Second Coming, it’s a fantastic book, 365 daily devotionals, and they’re nice and short. You can do that sometimes in the evening because it’s not often as deep as comparing Scripture with Scripture. But it varies, I listen to Christian radio during the day, and listen to other preachers’ sermons and Bible CDs in my car. I just try to surround myself with some good, spiritual food and message.

Greg: All right. Thank you so much, Pastor. It’s good to hear from you, thanks for the answers. It’s always good to hear from you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: All right, thank you Greg, I appreciate it. Going next to David, who’s calling from New Jersey. Welcome, David, on WMCA. Your question!

David: Yes, it’s in reference to the Prosperity Gospel, the Word of Faith doctrine. I’d like to know: is that close on with the Bible, or do you have truth in it and half lies? Because I hear a lot of controversy with that particular doctrine.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I would say your second response is actually correct. There’s elements of truth. I mean, there are obvious examples in the Bible where God blessed certain people. Joseph was blessed wherever he went, but notice Joseph not only went to the palace, Joseph was a servant and he was in prison. But God blessed him there because he was faithful. The blessing of God does not always mean financial prosperity. The Lord blessed the 12 apostles, I think we’d all agree we’d like to have the fate of Peter, James and John, right? But Peter was executed, crucified upside down Paul was beheaded James was killed with a sword John, he died of old age, but he was a prisoner. So the idea that if you’re a faithful Christian you’re going to be rich and healthy and prosperous is totally unbiblical. I mean, just look at Jesus, look at the example of the apostles. Christ said: ‘All that live Godly will suffer persecution’. Does that mean God doesn’t bless his people? No, he does. God promises to open the windows of heaven if we’re faithful in our time, God promises generally speaking to provide protection and blessings and health. But even Christians get sick, even Christians get cancer, even people who are health-conscious can get sick, because eventually sin is in the world and very rarely do people live 120 years like Moses and then climb a mountain and die. Most people end up getting sick as they get old and they die. Almost everybody, we don’t go from one employment bonus to the next, from winning lottery after lottery, prosperity after prosperity. Most people have ups and downs financially, and some may end up more prosperous, but often it’s after a rollercoaster of ups and downs. You know what I’m saying?

David: Right. Does this also fall in line with Revelation, when it talks about ‘those that are rich will get poor’…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, some people are rich in material good. You know, I believe the Devil can cast prosperity in a person’s path to distract them from God. You know, the Bible is very clear that ‘scarcely shall a rich man into the Kingdom of Heaven’, you know that verse.

David: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So why would Jesus say it’s harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle and then all these preachers say God wants you to all be rich? That doesn’t connect. I think the better part of God’s faithful followers do live modestly and they struggle like everyone else. We pray for our daily bread, right?

David: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So this Prosperity Gospel, if you want to know the bottom line, the Prosperity Gospel is designed to make the ministries and the preachers rich. What you always hear these ministries and preachers saying is: ‘Send me your money and God is going to bless you and make you rich!’ And a lot of people are gullible and they’re sincere and they fall for it. Is that too plain or did that make sense?

David: That makes sense. I’m just curious if you have any teachings on this particular subject.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes. We’ve got a lesson we can send you, and it’s called ‘In God We Trust’. It talks about finances and the Gospel and what the Bible says about these issues. If you’d like a free copy of that, I’ll be happy to send it to you. Just call the resource number, 800-835-6747 and ask for ‘In God We Trust’. We’ll be glad to send that to you. Thank you, David. We’re going to talk next to Lydia, calling from Walla Walla, Washington. You’re on the air, listening on KLRS. Welcome, Lydia!

Lydia: Hi.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi. Your question!

Lydia: There’s a verse in the Bible that talks about the everlasting fire and that this same fire that will consume the wicked in the end is the same fire that the righteous will live in.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’m not sure about therighteous living and everlasting fire.

Lydia: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Oh, are you talking about everlasting burnings? There’s a verse that mentions everlasting burnings.

Lydia: Well, it’s the same one that talks about the wicked that will die because of the fire, but that the righteous will live in it.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, do you know what that verse is? Because I’m not sure…

Lydia: No, I thought it was in Jeremiah, but I can’t find it.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you’ve got, of course, Matthew 25:41. Jesus says to the lost: ‘Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels’. So here it says the lost, the devil and his angels go to the everlasting fire. There’s a verse, and I’m guessing it’s the one that talks about the everlasting burnings, let me see if I can find that for you really quick. Sometimes, when Pastor Ross is here…Yes, I found it, it’s Isaiah 33:14. When Pastor Ross is here, he can fill in and talk while I type. I can’t talk and type at the same time.

Lydia: Ok.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Isaiah 33:14. ‘The sinners in Zion are afraid fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walks righteously and speaks uprightly’. This is the verse I think you’re talking about.

Lydia: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: When it says: ‘Who will dwell with everlasting burnings?’, this is not talking about the Lake of Fire. The ‘everlasting burnings’ is talking about the glory around the throne of God. The Lord says: ‘My presence is a consuming fire’. And so the presence of the Lord, there’s a glory there that is completely different from the Lake of Fire, where the wicked are destroyed. So this is talking about a brightness, a light. If I were to tell you that I burnt my hand, you’d think about the heat. If I were to say that the lamp is burning bright, you would think about the light. The word ‘burning’, sometimes in Hebrew – they didn’t have, you know, electricity back then – ‘burning’ could mean a lamp illuminating and it could also mean fire consuming. Here it’s talking about the brightness of the glory, the burning glory around God.

Lydia: That same glory that the righteous will live and the wicked will die.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, it’s separate. In a sense, there’s a truth to what you’re saying because when the Lord comes, the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. But that is different from when they’re judged and thrown in the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20. Let me give you an example: when Moses went up the mountain and he spoke to God face to face, the Bible says the smoke and fire of God covered the top of mount Sinai. Moses marched right up into that glory and he came down, his face was shining from the glory of God. Well, Moses also told the people, if anybody even touches the mount, they’ll be destroyed. So the glory of God is so bright, so powerful, if there’s any sin in us, it will destroy us.

Lydia: And I agree with that, that’s how I interpret that, Isaiah 33:14.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: But when the wicked are destroyed in the everlasting fire, at the Lake of Fire, that is a separate judgment that you find in Revelation 20. You know, I’ll be happy to send you a study guide on that, Lydia. We have a study guide called ‘Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?’, it talks about the punishment of the wicked. ‘Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?’. Call 800-835-6747, anybody out there if you want to know more about that, you can make that call. Talking next with Shelly who’s calling from New York, New York, on line 6. I’ve got to make sure I punch the right button. Shelly, you’re on the air!

Shelly: Hello.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi. Your question!

Shelly: My question. First I’m conjuring [?] that I’m studying the Gospels and Christianity and whatever. And I’d like to understand about Jesus or Joshua or Immanuel, this comes by many names, or to be God. Now also, I have so many questions, I wouldn’t know where to start.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, pick one.

Shelly: I would like to answer that lady who was concerned about Sarah Palin being able to be a mother and also to take on the duties of a very important office as vice-president. Now I want to go back 2000 years, because it comes to my mind: what did Miriam or Mary or when they called her the mother of God, she had eight children, how did she juggle the pressure that she had at that time, in her lifetime?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Oh, you know, that no doubt was a very heavy responsibility.

Shelly: That’s right. Responsibility. And then to be given the position or the…I don’t even know how to word this,to be mother of God. Can you imagine what that meant for her? How did she juggle it?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes. To the consistency and the faithfulness of being an example for Jesus, that doesn’t get much heavier than that, doesn’t it?

Shelly: That’s right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, well, we need to pray for those that are running for public office right now, that God’s going to give them wisdom, and the people who are going to be voting, that God will give them wisdom, and the people running, God will give them strength. But that’s a call they need to make individually. If they’re going to take that on, you would hope that they’ve carefully weighted what’s involved. But yes, there are a lot of moms out there that have very heavy responsibilities both at home and juggling work. In many parts of the world, moms go to work each they and they’ve got a couple of kids strapped to them and there’s still ‘wholing’ things besides their kids. I know you’ve seen that too, Shelly. How much time do we have left? Two minutes. I’m going to try and get one more call, if I can talk with Michael, who’s been waiting patiently. Michael from WA WZ, really quick your question!

Michael: My question was Genesis 5:2, where it says He created the male and female, he blessed them, and when they were created them He called them Adam. The reference to calling Adam and Eve ‘Adam’, the significance of that day.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, it’s like we talked about mankind in the singular sense. We know that mankind is men and women. It’s humanity, man and women. And so when God says he made humans in his image, he called them ‘Adam’. The word ‘Adam’ is actually similar to the word ‘Edem’, where you get the ‘Edomites’, it means ‘reddish’, are from the Earth. Who knows, God may have made Adam from the red Earth. So they share that name. Of course, when a woman was born, Adam gives her the name ‘woman’, which means ‘from the womb of man’, at least in English that’s the way it translates. Oh, I wish I had more time, Michael. Hope I did answer that a little bit. We are being chased off the air by the clock. Listening friends, I have a few closing moments, don’t change the dial just yet, please hear our pastor Doug. If you’re listening to this program, it’s not because there is any corporation that is underwriting us. People who are listening, your neighbors are helping to pay for the air time and if you’ve been blessed and encouraged by listening to Amazing Facts over the years, we would just love to hear from you. If you could send a little gift to help keep us on the air, we know these are struggling times in the economy and it makes it tough on ministries. So you could just go to the website, it’s so easy, A lot of free resources we give away there, but you can click where it says ‘Donate’ or contact us, we’d love to hear from you! Most of all we do this because we want you to have a relationship with Jesus. He’s the truth that will set you free! God bless!


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