Svalbard Global Seed Vault

Svalbard Global Seed Vault

Date: 05/24/2009 
Hidden on a remote island near the Arctic Ocean, there's a bunker considered to be the ultimate safety back-up for the world's agriculture.
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Pastor Doug: Hello friends. This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Hidden on a remote island near the Arctic Ocean, there's a bunker considered to be the ultimate safety back-up for the world's agriculture. Carved 427 ft. deep inside the permafrost within a frozen Norwegian mountain, 620 miles from the North Pole is the Svalbard Global Seed Vault, better known as the Doomsday Vault. It has been built to withstand virtually any catastrophe. The reinforced concrete chamber is designed to keep millions of seed samples gathered from around the world safe in the event of natural or unnatural disaster such as a nuclear war, asteroid strike, vegetation plague and even earthquakes.

The structure has already withstood a 6.2 quake. It's far enough above sea level that it won’t be flooded by melting ice caps in case global warming gets out of hand. Designers use a refrigeration system to bring the vault down to 180C, that's about 00F. The Norwegian Government says that they paid 9.4 million to build the sea vault that is even designed to survive a lack of funding. If someone forgets to pay the electric bill and the refrigeration system shuts down, the vault's temperature will remain cool enough to preserve the seeds because the storage chamber is located so deep within the mountain's thick rock, the area's natural permafrost will keep the vault temperature at least 40C or 250F.

It is believed that at these temperatures, seeds from important crops like wheat, barley, and peas can last up to 10,000 years. Currently, the vault is holding about 268 thousand distinct samples from different farms and fields around the world. The vault is capable of holding up to 4 million packages of seeds or 2 billion total seeds. Ideally, the seed bank will house virtually every type of seed available in the world today. This will theoretically allow humanity to re-establish agriculture if our main food plants disappear due to some global catastrophe. According to the Bible, if this ultra-secure vault does survive the Second Coming, no one will be able to use the seeds except the devil.

Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: We are very thankful that you are listening friends either by your choice or providence. We believe that this is the best use of talk radio to talk about the word of God. And if you have questions about the Bible, that blessed book, pick up your phones now. We have phone lines open. Good chance of getting your question on tonight's program. For the next 58 minutes or so, we'll be taking Bible questions. We don't talk about finance except that it relates to the Bible. And we don’t talk about romance but we talk about the truth of God's word. That number one more time is 800-GOD-SAYS, that's 1-800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening listening friends. And, Pastor Doug, let's begin the program with a prayer.

Dear Lord, we thank you again for this opportunity to study your Word. And we ask your blessing upon this program, be with those who are listening wherever they might be. We pray for wisdom here in the studio. For this we ask in Jesus name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Jean Ross: You spoke about a special place where seeds are being preserved for some worldwide catastrophe. You spoke about an asteroid possibility or some massive earthquake, or a flood or something terrible that's supposed to happen. If that happens, then we'll have all these seeds preserved. One question I had was who's gonna use the seeds if there's global catastrophe. You mentioned something about the second Coming as being what the Bible says will be a major catastrophe but those seeds aren't going to be used after then.

Pastor Doug: Well, there was a fascinating report about this most basically a super strong bunker. I read that it can supposedly survive a direct nuclear hit or you know some plane crashes into it, earthquakes--it's already, I guess withstood a pretty good earthquake--and the idea is to preserve. [Laughs] There might not many people left on Earth but there'll be a lot of seeds to preserve the earth's agriculture. You know first, I don’t think it will survive the second Coming because if you read in 2 Peter 3, chapter 10, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise." It sounds like a nuclear explosion, "and the elements will melt with fervent heat. Both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore since all these things will be dissolved" and you look at the word 'heat, dissolved, burned up'--

Jean Ross: 'Melt.'

Pastor Doug: Yeah, so you know I don’t know if there'll be any vault anywhere that's gonna survive the Second Coming but if it was to survive--some people might have thought it was interesting that I said the devil better take up farming because according to the Bible, the only one on the planet alive after the Second Coming of Jesus is gonna be Satan and his angels that are bound here in this--the word he uses in Revelation 20 for bottomless pit is 'the abusos?' which is by the way the same word that is used in the Greek Old Testament for the world when it was void without form, the chaos of this dark planet. Satan is bound here for a thousand years. Bible speaks of the devil and his angels bound in everlasting chains with nobody to tempt or manipulate. So I guess the devil could take up farming and go find these seeds if he can get in the vault. [Laughs] And but you know I don’t know many people will survive but those seeds would be there. And some people are surprised to learn that when Jesus comes again there is nobody alive on the earth.

You know two big rivers of thought among Christians about the Millennium. Virtually all Christians agree the Millennium is a clear Bible teaching you find in Revelation chapter 20. The word 'Millennium' does not appear that’s just Latin for 'mille', a thousand annum, years. And so the one thousand year period you find in Revelation 20 is a period of time where it says the saints live and reign with Christ. Some believed that afar Jesus comes, life goes on here on earth for a thousand years and the righteous will reign in over the wicked. Traditionally, Christians believed that the righteous... Christ takes us back to the mansion he's prepared when he comes. We live and reign with him in glory, you're bearing testimony to his salvation but the wicked, there's no one alive here on earth. And you look at Scriptures like Jeremiah chapter 4 where it says, "All the cities were broken down by the presence of the Lord." There is no birds and every man is dead. And then it tells us in both Jeremiah and Isaiah, "God makes the earth utterly empty." It's covered with the slain of the Lord.

Nobody to lament or bury, that the bodies covered the surface of the ground. So there's this description given in the Bible where nobody's alive during the 1,000 years. This planet is desolated. And if our listening friends are confused about what does the Bible teach about the millennium: Are we with Jesus and glory during the millennium or are we here on earth reigning over the wicked? I might just interject here I have no desire to spend a thousand years reigning over the wicked. And I don’t see that really being taught anywhere in the Bible. So they may have questions about that wanna know where are the Scriptures and we've got lots of them in this lesson.

Jean Ross: The lesson is entitled "A Thousand Years of Peace" in Amazing Facts study guide. To receive it, call our resource line 1-800-835-6747, 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the study guide "A Thousand Years of Peace."

Pastor Doug: You know you and I were talking just before the program. We said that now there's another book that's written by Joe Crews on that subject and it was called "Satan in Chains." "Satan in Chains," another great resource that people can read for free at the amazingfacts.com website. If they go to the amazingfacts.com or amazingfacts.org and under the free books "Satan in Chains" and they can have that or they can send for the free offer.

Jean Ross: Now if you don’t' wanna wait until you're free offer arrives but you wanna read more about that, Pastor Doug mentioned Jeremiah chapter 4, it's verse 23 to verse 26. Also, you might wanna jot down Isaiah chapter 24 verse 3 and verse 6 also talks about the earth after Jesus comes and it’s desolate broken down condition. We're going to the phone lines. Michael is calling from Detroit, Michigan. Michael welcome to the program.

Michael: Good evening gentlemen. How you doing?

Pastor Doug: Real well. Thanks for calling in.

Michael: Thank you. I'm a second time caller. Yeah, my question is in the Bible, I always wondered about what happened to Christ the 3 days that he was dead. I heard different you know, things about you know, did he suffer for all the sins of mankind. And I was just wondering if you could clarify it. I was always wondering about what happened to him during that 3 day period before he rose again.

Pastor Doug: All right. Good question. The suffering that Jesus experience was really before he died. He began suffering in the garden of Gethsemane when he was betrayed by Judas. That’s what Christ says, "Now is the hour." He was basically placed in the hands of the devil. And so during that whole time of His torturing and his suffering, of course, in the crucifixion, he suffered for the sins of the world He suffered from the separation from the Father when He said, "My God, why have you forsaken Me?" He experience that for us. And then it says, you know, He gave up His spirit He breathes His last. He said, "It is finish." Now when He says it's finished that would lead us to believe his payment for our redemption was finished. And he died, then it tells us that he died and there's nothing in the Bible that he did anything other than died.

Then He rose Sunday morning. So you know there's all kinds of theories: some have tried a few Scriptures to say that He was you know gallivanting through the cosmos or He's in hell suffering more or He was saving people and some other part of the world. There are all kinds of theories. The Scripture tells us that he died then He rose Sunday morning so between His dying and rising, it doesn't tells us He took any trips. Christ suffered and died for our sins. You know what people struggle with how could He really die? He's the Son of God but the penalty for sin is death. The wages for sin is death. Christ paid the penalty. If he just went through some metamorphist when he said it is finished, then he didn't die. You know what I'm saying?

Michael: Uhum.

Pastor Doug: He died like the lost? Die.

Michael: Okay. Can I just have one more quick question?

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Michael: when he was sweating drops of blood, was that something that was unique to him? I mean I know he was fully aware of--

Pastor Doug: No, there is, Mike, actually a medical condition where some people--and I've looked this up before, it's authentic--where some people suffering extreme stress, capillaries near the surfaces of the skin can break and blood can mix with their sweat. So you know some people have died because of stress, of fear and so the mind can do incredible things. The agony that Christ felt actually, the stress he felt actually ruptured capillaries near the skin and he sweat--

Jean Ross: And of course for that to happen, your blood pressure would have to go very, very high. Jesus was you knee 33 years of age. He was in excellent health and so being that healthy and his blood pressure going up so high because of the stress that he was under.

Pastor Doug: He was pressured to the ultimate human limit.

Michael: But was he--

Pastor Doug: I mean that's what he felt on to the way of the cross.

Michael: But was he worried that his.... I've heard that one said that He was afraid that His sacrifice wouldn't be accepted by God.

Pastor Doug: No. Well, when He was suffering from our sins, he... You know all through his life, Christ--and I'm taking a little more with this than I normally do but it's really important--all through Jesus life, He was in constant communion with the Father. And you know, he had divine revelation from the Father. When he began to suffer for our sins, that door was shut like the vault door of a bank. I mean he was totally separated and so the devil was just bombarding him doubts attacking his faith. So Christ has no doubt had His faith tested. It was a tremendous temptation for Him. When He suffered for our sins to lose faith but He didn’t. That's why at the very end when He said, "Father, in to your hands, I commend my spirit." That's evidence that He had not lost faith. Hey, I really appreciate your question, Michael. You know there's a book that we do offer that we'll send you a free copy. It's called the "The High Cost of the Cross." And if you just ask for that, we'll send it to you.

Jean Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. Asks for the book "The High Cost of the Cross" and we'll be happy to send that out. Very beautiful book, very important book. Jeff is calling from Edmonton, Alberta. Jeff, welcome to the program.

Jeff: Evening pastors.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Jeff: I have a question that is quite sensitive here in (inaudible 14:52) and Christians and I heard the sermon (inaudible 14:58) Christian and I have listened to various talks about people talk on talk like which is very sensitive, I understand but I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't have my question answered unless I was being specific so here I am asking actually two (inaudible 15:19) questions. First of all, I'm sure you've heard of the patriarchs of modern worship, (even?) Chris (Tomlin?), Michael W. Smith, (inaudible 15:29) generally speaking, would something like that be appropriate for church worship and or even just listening to music on your own. And then I know the (spirit across he makes?) to mention of the drums, if played properly, would be a blessing and I just wanna know if you could expound on that.

Pastor Doug: All right. We're gonna bring your mic down a little bit Jeff just because I think you must be out where some wind is blowing because we're getting a little bit of rasping on some of the phone. You know, you're asking me to comment on two artists. I know I heard them. I know I heard songs by them and if I'm not mistaken, the spectrum of music that even some times one artist may play will be all across the (board?). And you know Elven Presley used to do hymns but not everything he did was hymns. So you know rather than single out any one artist, I'm sure there are virtually everybody are gonna listen to the different artist and say, "You know they've got this one song. It's really good. It's a great sacred song." This is a song that might be appropriate in sometimes in places and this song would be good for worship and this one would not be good for worship service. So music is occasional.

What I mean by that, God designs different music for different occasions. Of course some music is diabolical and should be no part of any Christian occasion. Or a lullaby is great music when you put in a baby to sleep. And by the way, a lullaby, it doesn't matter if you're in a North America or Australia or Africa, you're gonna find the same principles in lullaby music. You don’t play war music when you're trying to put a baby to sleep. It doesn't work. You usually don’t play--what do they call that?-- 'heavy metal' when you're trying to put a baby to sleep. I understand that it even distresses plants that listen to it. Some music is war music. A lot of songs in the Bible, they would sing songs of victory like when the Egyptians were drowned. Miriam led the ladies out when Saul and David went back from the battle. The women came out to meet them with dancing and singing and victory songs. Psalm 1:50 in the Bible were it talks about all these (inaudible 17:46) and shouting as a victory song. And then there were songs designed for worship. Some songs were educational. Psalm 1:19 really comes out the word of God from every possible angle. It's a very long song but melody was put to it because it has all the principles of the Word. So different kinds of music for different occasions.

And then you asked about drums, you know, there's nothing wrong with having tempo. A lot of music needs some kind of you know if we're gonna sing "Shall We Gather at the River"--and I won’t do a solo right now--it's got tempo to it. But just because music may have rhythm or tempo, doesn't mean that you need to have a (sneer?) set in the church. So you know I hope that helps a little bit, Jeff. And you know one of the best things I could recommend is we do have two or three books at the amazing Facts website that deal with the subject of Christian principle. I wish people would you know I like when we study the principles because if I were to say, "This is good," or "This is bad," then you're gonna say, "This is what Pastor Doug says." I'd rather you go to the Bible and say what are the biblical principles for godly music. And then it doesn't matter what pastor you talked to, you know what the Bible principles are. Hey, I appreciate your call, Jeff. And you can check out also Louis Torres has a book that you can order at the website. It's called "Notes on Music." Clever title, "Notes on Music."

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Bruce and he's listening from hidden Lake, California. Bruce welcome to the program.

Bruce: Thank you very much and God bless you and praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost, my God, Jesus Christ. You know I got a question I don’t think that's ever been asked. I don’t even know if there's an answer.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Bruce: But the question starts with Genesis chapter 4 verse 1.

Pastor Doug: All right.

Bruce: Now, that's where God creates Adam. and Cain was also mentioned in that verse so his first son but if you go all the way to Noah, I heard you say this a long time ago, that Noah and Adams were alive at the same time on the earth for a portion of their lives, is that true?

Pastor Doug: Well, let me think. I don’t know if that's true. If I said that, I may have been hasty. I'm thinking about Adam lived about 930 years and Noah was 600 when the flood came. It would have been close. There may have been a little overlap. You know I cheat sometimes. I've got a Bible chronology chart at home and it shows you all the patriarchs and their life spans on a line. And you can see where they overlap. Without that in front of me, I'm handicapped a little bit.

Bruce: One more part of the question is Noah did witness to the Enoch and Methuselah.

Pastor Doug: Yes, they were alive at the same time.

Bruce: But they apparently didn't listen to his warnings about the flood and perish all the people around the...

Pastor Doug: Now, that I can...

Bruce: (Inaudible 20:28) this one.

Pastor Doug: That I can answer for you, Bruce.

Bruce: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Enoch, of course, went to heaven before the flood. The Bible says, "He walk with God and he was not for God took him." Methuselah, his name actually means 'when I die, it will come.' That's what 'Methuselah' means, 'when I die, it will come.' he died the very year of the flood as did Lamech, Noah's father. They both died at the same year, just before the flood. So they probably did believe... They probably even helped Noah build the arc but they died before the flood actually came.

Jean Ross: You know we have a verse in 2 Peter chapter 2 verse 5 that actually says, "Noah was a preacher of righteousness." That's 2 peter chapter 2 verse 5. So he was warning people. He was preaching concerning what God revealed to him about the coming flood.

Bruce: And but everybody was destroyed except 8 and I'm just saying the other two, Enoch and Methuselah were not mentioned. Or are they mentioned? There were those that died before the flood. Are they in a special place?

Pastor Doug: Well, you can look at a Bible, you know, if you just look at a Bible chronology, Methuselah dies before the flood. That virtually all scholars agree on that because it's math. It's real easy. Enoch was taken to heaven. He lived 300 years. He had Methuselah. And Enoch is taken to heaven shortly after that. So he doesn’t see the flood because he is translated without dying. So I'm sure they heard Noah preached because Noah preached for a 120 years.

Bruce: Oh yeah, I know that. But Enoch a hundred... You know 365 years or something. Listen, I'm just saying other people that died before the flood that weren't judge, actually in a death caused by the flood, have they also maybe gone where Enoch went?

Pastor Doug: Well, I see what you're saying. Well, you know...

Bruce: That's why I was trying to say...

Pastor Doug: I see. Well, I apologized.

Bruce: That's all right.

Pastor Doug: There's no record in the Bible of anyone other than Enoch and Elijah being translated. Now so you know if God did something special for some other patriarch, we don't know that but it's just not recorded in the Bible. And since Enoch is mentioned again in Hebrews, we assume he's the only one.

Bruce: Well, thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right. I appreciate your question Bruce. Thanks for calling.

Jean Ross: Theon is calling from Brooklyn, New York. Theon welcome to the program.

Theon: Hello good evening Pastor Doug. How you doing?

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Theon: My question for you tonight is I do my studies from time to time. My brother--

Pastor Doug: Hey, Theon, get real close to your phone. You're in New York and we're in California. I can barely hear you.

Theon: All right.

Pastor Doug: That's better.

Theon: My question for you is at the coming of Christ, are the 144 thousand the only righteous to be alive at that time?

Pastor Doug: I believe not. I believe the 144 thousand are the equivalent of what the disciples were at the first coming of Jesus. On the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured on the disciples plus there's 120 in the upper room so you've got the 12 apostles plus everyone else in the upper room. They all received the Holy Spirit. And then a great multitude is converted from the influence--what was it? 3000 on the day of Pentecost...

Theon: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: In the last days, the 144 thousand are 12, like the apostles, times 12 thousand. The apostles just preached to Jews to start with. The 144 thousand are preaching to the whole world. And so if you read on in Revelation chapter 7, it says that there's a great multitude that no man can number wearing white robes that have come out of great tribulation. So I believed if there's only a 144 thousand being saved--and I figured this out once, and there's 6 billion people in the world, now there's more--that would mean your chances are proximately one in 34 thousand of being saved.

Theon: I didn’t say that whether they were the only ones to be saved. Were the only saved wants to be alive at the coming?

Pastor Doug: Oh, I see what you're saying. Nope, I think that there is a quite a few that survived the plagues besides the 144 thousand. Is that your understanding, past Ross?

Jean Ross: Yeah, you know Revelation chapter 6 answered the question who's gonna be able to stand when the great day of God's judgment, then it talks about those who have the seal of God being ones who are able to stand. I also remember that when you talk about the 144 thousand, you have the 12 thousand from each of the tribes. God is teaching us something more than just the numerical value here. Don’t get hang up on 144 thousand but there's a tremendous lesson that God is teaching in Revelation chapter 7.

Pastor Doug: You know if you'd like, Theon, I've got a book that's written on specifically on this subject. It's called "Who Will Sing the Song?" It's talking about the 144 thousand. If you'd like the copy of the book, we'll be happy to send it to you.

Jean Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. And the book is called "Who Will Sing the Song?" Is it the 144 thousand?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Jean Ross: And we'll be happy to send that out to you. Well, we have time for one more before we take our break. Loretta is calling from Sylvanna, Tennessee. Loretta, welcome to the program.

Loretta: Yes, thank you pastors. I’m still on my journey through the Bible.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Loretta: I've got a question about... What's his name? Excuse me.

Pastor Doug: I'm not a prophet so you have to help me.

Loretta: (Inaudible 24:40) about Miriam and Aaron. When Miriam was banished for the 7 days outside of the camp, where did she go? Because they had to wait until she came back and why wasn't Aaron also banished?

Pastor Doug: Well, that is a good question. By the way friends, you'll find this in Numbers 12. It talks about this. Evidently, Miriam and Aaron began to slander Moses because he had married an Ethiopian. We don't know if it could be that his first wife, Zipporah, came from choosing a Midianite could have come from Ethiopian lineage. And they were giving Moses a hard time saying, "Why did you marry an Ethiopian?" or it could be... and keep in mind you, he is married to Zipporah for 40 years before he began the Exodus. She could have died. He could have remarried. It's just not clear But, evidently, Miriam, for whatever reason, she instigated a little bit of deriding of her brother. You know you shouldn't be marrying someone from a different race. And she was giving him a hard time. And so because she was the instigator, she bore the brunt of God's displeasure because of this.

Jean Ross: And of course, it wasn't just that he had married this other woman, I think it was also a power struggle. You know Miriam felt that she should also have some say in the running of Israel. And people looked at Moses and respected him. And they thought "well, we should also get some of that respect."

Pastor Doug: Yeah, good point.

Jean Ross: She found a sympathizer here with Aaron because he also probably felt the same way.

Pastor Doug: And it could be like most husbands, they get council from their wives and they may have thought that Moses’ wife was giving him some council. And Meriam said, "Wait, whatever happened to me?" And so there's jealousy in here and that's right. I believe you're right about that. So...

Loretta: So where did she go outside the camp?

Pastor Doug: They have boarders for the camp. And there was a border all the way around the camp. Anyone unclean had to be outside the camp. There were other people outside the camp that were unclean because either they had some sickness or appropriate person with an issue. A lot of things could render you unclean. They just had to stay outside the borders of the encampment but she was probably within sight of everybody within the camp.

Pastor Doug: Hey, I didn't mean to do that to you Loretta. We are gonna take a break here to catch our breath. We have some important announcements for our friends that are listening. Also you wanna have some utensils to right with. When we come back, we're gonna be giving you a few special websites. Amazing Facts highlights some of the great study websites in each program and gives you a way to continue your Bible study during the week. Of course the mother-ship website is simply AmazingFacts.org. And there you've got videos that you can watch. There are archives that these radio programs. There are free Bible resources especially if you're a teacher or a preacher. A lot of good study material at the amazingfacts.com website. We'll be back in just a moment.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: We are back and you are listening to Bible Answers Live. If you have joined us somewhere along the way, this is a live interactive Bible study. And we invite people from around the country and around the world to call in with their Bible questions. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Welcome again friends to the second half of the program. Pastor Doug, you know a lot of folks enjoy listening to this program but there is a way that they can get solid Bible information whenever they need it or whenever they want it by going to one of the Amazing Facts websites.

Pastor Doug: Yes, you know more and more people are getting not just their reading material on the internet or even listening material. I like to sometimes click on different sermons and listen on the internet but as bandwidth increases and the computer speed's increase, people are watching more video on the internet or the computer. And amazing Facts actually has a television channel that is 24 hours a day Evangelism programming and it's... you know we've got 15 years of recordings and evangelistic programs and we've got everything from the kids programs, You and I did in Texas to programs from New York and some of our other evangelist and there's a whole kaleidoscope of evangelistic amazing programming. It's easy to remember the website. It's amazingfacts.tv, amazingfacts.tv. And I know some people keep it on the background as they're doing things around the house, around the office, and just you can listen or watch the constant evangelistic programming. And we also have a number of specialized websites. Well, you know a lot of people have questions on what happens when you die.

We have a website called truthaboutdeath.com. A lot of people say, you know, there's this different all kinds of crazy ideas: about what is the truth about the lake of fire or hell? How the wicked punished? It's called 'hell truth.' As a matter of fact, I think it's probably one of the most popular websites on the internet dealing with that subject. And a few weeks ago, we released a website. Now have 32 thousand hits in about a month. It's called 666truth. Everyone, all kinds of theories. What is 666? Some are interesting. Some are bizarre but we'll give you bible answers on what these questions are. And the websites have so much more information. There's a video you can watch. There's audio you can listen to. There's books you can read. There’s Scripture references. And so you can find a lot of these. They linked each other's well. If you go visit 666truth, you'll find some great resources. Okay, are you ready to do more phone calls?

Jean Ross: All right. Let's go to the phone lines. Ramona is listening to the internet from Denver, Colorado. Ramona, welcome to the program.

Ramona: Hi, Pastor Doug and I forgot your name.

Pastor Doug: I forget his name too. [Laughs] Give us a clue. It's Jean.

Ramona: Hi, Jean. In Matthew 12, the disciples were hungry and Jesus and the disciples pluck ears of corn on the Sabbath. The Pharisees question Jesus said to why he allowed this to be done on the Sabbath day and Jesus told them that when David was hungry, he ate the shewbread which was not lawful except for the priest to eat. When I go to 1 Samuel 21:3, David was given 5 loaves of shewbread by the priest and if this was unlawful, I don't understand why Jesus used that as the example. (Inaudible 34:29) why was it okay for David to use the shewbread and what point he was trying to make to the Pharisees.

Pastor Doug: Well...

Ramona: And then the second half of the question is Jesus spent 5 thousand with 5 loaves of bread. Is there any significance to the number 5?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Ramona: Okay, those are my two questions.

Pastor Doug: Do you have a pencil handy?

Ramona: Yes.

Pastor Doug: All right. We have a website called prophecycode.com. At the prophecy code website, there is a list of numbers in the Bible and what their significance is. Now, not every number--you can’t take the number 183 and say, "What's the spiritual significance of that?"--but there are certain numbers that are reoccurring frequently in the Bible: like 7, three and a half, 10, 12, 40, 70--those are some numbers that are very disproportionately used a high percentage of time in the Bible. They do have symbolic means. The number 12 is a symbol for the church. The number 7 is a symbol of God's perfect cycle, completeness. The number 5 often represents the word. And the reason for that is originally all the Jews agree the word of God, both Pharisees and Sadducees, was in the 5 books of Moses known as the 'Pentateuch'. That's where we get the pentagon, 5 sides. And you'll even hear parables, "The Rich Man and Lazarus." He said I've got 5 brothers in my father's house. That meant every synagogue had a Pentateuch in it, the word of God. So 5 is often a symbol for the word of God.

And back to your question about David. And don’t forget you'll find more about the numbers at prophecycode.com. There's a chart there for anyone who wants to look up Bible numbers and their meaning. But when David went up to the temple, they used to keep 12 loaves of bread on the table of shewbread but they would swap it out fresh every day. So this bread had reached the end of its day. The priest said you know, "We're supposed to dispose of the bread" or "Only our priest should eat it since this is an emergency, we'll have you eat it." And so they made a practical exception. That’s why Jesus is telling the Pharisees, "Don't persecute the apostles because they're plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath." They're just being practical. They're not harvesting. There not winnowing. And that's what they're accusing them of.

Jean Ross: Of course, in the story of David, he was fleeing for his life and he didn't have food. He didn't have provisions.

Pastor Doug: It was an emergency.

Jean Ross: It was an emergency.

Ramona: Okay, so Jesus is saying if I (inaudible 36:49) if your animal falls in the pit, you're not gonna leave them there.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you know obviously he wants us to be practical.

Ramona: (Inaudible 36:55) on the Sabbath.

Pastor Doug: Exactly.

Ramona: Oh, that makes a lot of sense. And then besides, I just wanted to tell everybody that I listen to Bible Answers Live on the internet every night. I just have it streaming on the background in my computer. And it's very relaxing and it puts me to sleep [Pastor Doug laughs] when I have a very stressful day at work.

Pastor Doug: You know--

Ramona: I wake up and hear that and it takes my mind off of that.

Pastor Doug: Thank you, Ramona, but I don't know how many people have come out and say "Pastor Doug, I just really appreciate your sermons because whenever I can't sleep I put them on and it puts me right to sleep." [Pastors laugh]. I never know exactly how to take that. Well, I got a lot of people to come to church each week and they could bare testimony that I helped them rest, also. Thank you Ramona, we appreciate your question.

Jean Ross: Robert is listening online calling from Cathedra City, California. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hey, Robert, I used to live in Cathedral City.

Robert: Yes, I read your.... some of your...

Pastor Doug: The book, huh?

Robert: I know that you had a lot of challenges over there in (inaudible 37:54) Palm Springs.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I actually lived in Cathedral City for a while but, yes, I did live in the Mountains of Palm Springs. And your question tonight.

Robert: My question is--Doug, first of all before I ask you the question, I wanna thank you for your sermons on the sight. I learned a lot from them and just keep up the good work.

Pastor Doug: Bless your heart. Praise the Lord.

Robert: Thank you. Now on Sunday worshippers, my question is mark of the beast. Is that in the one world government comes, they demand or further require by law that no more worshipping on any other day but Sunday. And the people that choose to obey that is that at that point when they get the mark of the beast? The worshippers today get in the mark of the beast.

Pastor Doug: All right. You and I know what we're talking about but people who are listening for the first time might be thinking "what in the world is that question?" Let me explain to our listening friends. In Revelation, there's a law made at the end of time compelling everyone to worship the beast or be killed. In Daniel chapter 3, King Nebuchadnezzar made a law that everybody must bow down to his image or be killed. In Daniel chapter 6, there's a law made that everybody needs to pray to King Darius or be killed. It had to do with worship. When Abel did not worship the way Cain worshipped, Cain killed his brother. So the big issue is worship. And now if Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego had bowed down to pick up a rock off the ground any other time, there's nothing wrong with that. If they'd bowed down to pray to the Lord or they'd knelt to pray to the Lord, that would have been fine but for them to kneel and pray with this image in front of them when the music plays, the time and the place are wrong they would have been guilty of sin. When the government makes a law that compel us to break the law of God and put a substitute in its place that becomes a sin. Does that make sense, Robert?

Robert: Yes. Yes. So actually then it’s not necessarily being the beast is the system of worshipping on Sunday, it's more of a government...

Pastor Doug: It's mandated by the government. Yeah, and I'd like to just say you know anyone who listens to this program for any length of time knows I believe in the 10 Commandments that they're still in effect. We keep or saved by grace but we keep God's law because we love the Lord. And I believe that the same Sabbath that Jesus kept, 7th day of the week, is still the Sabbath but I believe the better part of Jesus's true followers happened to go to church on Sunday. I just don’t think it's biblical. I hope that makes sense to everybody. There's a lot of God's people doing things sincerely, they just don’t know. You know there were some of God's people that had too many wives like David and Abraham and others, that wasn't God's will He winked at their ignorance. So I like to stick with the Bible, 7th day of the week, what we call Saturday is the Sabbath. And someday I think that's gonna be a government law that will compel people to worship on a counterfeit day.

Jean Ross: You know--

Pastor Doug: Pastor Ross.

Jean Ross: --we have a website dealing with the subject of the Sabbath. That’s something a lot of folks asking about. Why is it in the 10 Commandments and how do we keep the Sabbath? sabbathtruth.com or sabbathtruth.org

Pastor Doug: Either one.

Jean Ross: That will take you to our website filled with our resources dealing with the Sabbath issue.

Pastor Doug: That's again one of the more popular websites out there when people have questions what does the Bible say about the real Sabbath. sabbathtruth.com. Thank you Robert. Good question. And don't get too hot down there in Cathedral City.

Jean Ross: Martin is listening from Antioch, California. Martin, welcome to the program.

Martin: Hi. Good night, Pastor Ross and Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Martin: My question is I have a beloved (uncle?) that goes (inaudible 41:49) church. He... We were studying about the Sabbath rest last week on the quarterly. And he said to me "What about Colossian 2 verse 16?" And my next question is where in the Bible does it say that we should baptize people in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.

Pastor Doug: Well, I will tell you what, with your permission, we're gonna go ahead we’re gonna start with your second question. In Matthew, you're asking about where does it say that you should baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That's found in the great commission that you find in Matthew chapter 28, more specifically verse 19. Jesus said "Go ye therefore teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." Now there are some people out there that say you know your baptism is not valid unless you baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and they say that because in Acts chapter 2:38, Peter said "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Robert: Right.

Pastor Doug: If you got to Acts 8:16, it says there baptize in the name of the Lord. In Acts 10:48, it says there you're baptize in the name of the Lord.

Robert: Right.

Pastor Doug: And so it varies in different places in the Bible. I've just shown four different ways it's recorded. So the emphasis was not on the way that the pastor or the elder did the baptizing, what words did he utter. There are many different Gods through the Roman Empire. They’re emphasizing they're baptizing in the name of the God of the Bible.

Robert: Right.

Pastor Doug: The God of the Scriptures, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. So you know when I baptize people, I say you know, "I baptize you in the name of God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I cover all the basics that way. You know it's like a wedding. When a pastor marries a couple, he can be as formal or informal as he wants to be when he says you know "Do you Jean take Sally?" or he can say their entire names, "Do you Jean Herald Wilbert 3rd take Sally Melissa Sniff 5th?" You know you could say whatever you want.

Robert: Okay.

Pastor Doug: The idea is as long the two parties involved understand the vow. Baptism is a vow. And if the two parties and the witnesses understand that they are making a public commitment, it's a binding vow. So some people get hung up on the wording and I think they're missing the point. Are they making a commitment to their life to Christ? That's the big issue. When you utter the words right, it doesn't open the door like a magical spell.

Robert: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Hey, I hope that helps a little bit. And we also recommend on your other question, you had a question on Colossians 2, you just go to the Sabbath Truth website. It got a whole section there on Colossians 2.

Jean Ross: Next caller is George listening on WMCA from Bronx, New York. George, welcome to the program.

George: Hey, how you doing?

Pastor Doug: Very well George.

George: I have a question about the book of James.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

George: And I’m wondering where it says in the book of James about bringing back a brother from the truth, my question is it a (saved?) person or a (inaudible 45:07) person.

Pastor Doug: Well, it sounds like he's talking about someone. It says, "If any of you do err from the truth." James is writing to the church. That's by the way James 5:19. He said, "Brethren, if any of you," he's speaking to his brothers, "err from the truth and one convert him Let him know, he that converts the sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and shall cover a multitude of sins." So if you've got a brother or a sister and the Lord and they've wandered from the faith if you bring them back, you're redeeming someone from death and you're covering a multitude of sins. I think that the Lord blesses the evangelists as well as the evangelee. [Laughs]

George: Is that about (inaudible 45:54) to go back to church or what? I mean it will be more moral.

Pastor Doug: Well, I would think that it would include total revival coming back to the Lord and going to church.

Jean Ross: You know it could be also where it might be a brother in the church or a sister in the church who they're doing something that maybe they aren't even aware that what they're doing is wrong but as our brother and sister, we are to go to them in the love of Christ and administer to them and hopefully encourage them. Help them realize what God's will would be in a particular situation.

Pastor Doug: You know what often happens in the church, George, is as Pastor Ross was saying, members will notice that a brother or sister starting to stray with a company they keep or maybe they're getting involved in an unhealthy relationship with an unbeliever and they stand like spectators watching it happen and no one intervenes to go that person and say, "Hey, brother/sister, you know I just got to talk to you. This is not God's will. You're going down the wrong road and here are the Scriptures." And you can bring that person back before they fall off the boat. So that's true. I think that’s even more the way it's been applied.

George: All right, thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: All right. Hey, no problem, George. God bless.

Jean Ross: Mark is listening from Knoxville, Tennessee. Mark, you're on the air.

Mark: Yeah, like a two-part question. How do I answer someone who tells me that the fact that the center of the earth is extremely hot but that's proof that that's punishment purposes going on right now? And then the second part is like 2 Peter 2:4 seems to talk about angel being punished now.

Pastor Doug: All right. Two questions. One because the core of the earth is molten, doesn’t that mean that there are souls down there burning or it simply means that part of the geology of the planet, it’s got a molten core. And there are several planets that, not only in our solar system, there are probably millions in the universe that have molten cores. That doesn't mean anything because the sun is hot, doesn’t mean that there's people in the sun burning. You know the Bible tells us that God has the wicked are reserved till the day of judgment to be punished. NO one is in hell, fire burning now because they haven't been judge or resurrected yet.

Mark: What's the purpose of the heat in the core of the planet?

Pastor Doug: Well, for one thing, it provides I think circulation for the currents. The whole planet is, to some extent, regulated. The gravitational pull of our planet would not exist if we did not have molten nickel core that matter gives us our gravitational pull. It's just perfect.

Mark: And volcanoes have nothing to do with hell either.

Pastor Doug: Volcanoes are pressure valves on the planet that let out the heat when it builds up. Now, I don't think in the beginning, the Garden of Eden, there were volcanoes. The planet has been ravage by sin. Paul says the whole creation grows and travails together under this burden of sin. And even the planet, I think, is revolving because of it. When Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, it wasn't a volcano nor was it fire from below. Fire came from above. It says God reign fire down out of the sky. So God doesn't need molten material in the earth to punish sinners.

Jean Ross: You know if you use the argument, "if it's a very hot place, that must be a place for torment," Well, the sun is a whole lot hotter than the core of the earth but you know people don’t think that that's hell. Just because it's hot and it's burning, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's hell.

Mark: What about... Well, there's a website I saw called 1611.org or something and I try to make the case and they've even... Some have even claimed that microphone have been lowered. On the microphone, they hear human screams.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I remember reading once in the national inquirer that Russia was drilling an oil well and they went a little too deep and demons began to escape. So you're gonna run in to all kinds of anecdotal information on hell and you can’t really base your theology on someone who says like... I don’t know. We may have been hearing pressure releaser. I've got a friend who's a well driller and he went down and he had hear all these noise coming out of the hole, well it was gas they'd hit. It probably sounds like screaming. So, yeah, I wouldn't base my theology on those stories.

Jean Ross: And again, we have a website dealing with the subject of understand what the Bible says about hell. helltruth.com. Our next caller then is Jeff and he's calling from Edmonton, Canada. Jeff, welcome to the program.

Jeff: Hi there. I’m just calling for a second time now. I have a question about in Revelation, John hears the 7 thunders speak but he's not allowed to write it down. I was wondering what Scripture is that and why is that written down if we don’t know. And second of all, turn this different question but is all of the spirit across the, everything that Ellen G. White wrote is that all considered from God an inspirational.

Pastor Doug: All right, you got 2 questions. Your one question is on the--help me with this.

Jean Ross: The 7 thunders.

Pastor Doug: The 7 thunders in Revelation. I believe that in the beginning, God has made it clear that man is limited in his knowledge. Christ said there's many things I want to say to you now but you're not able to bear them. And I think sometimes the Lord reveals things to some. Was it Paul? I’m trying to remember Pastor Ross where he says, "I knew man is caught up to third heaven who heard things..."

Jean Ross: Unutterable.

Pastor Doug: Unutterable. And there's some knowledge that God has given to a few mortal. They were allowed just for their own satisfaction or for their own relationship with the Lord to hear and see things that they couldn't even tell.

Jean Ross: You know, that specific passage in Revelation chapter 10, John hears the 7 thunders and is about to write and God says don’t write it down. It's as if something mysterious, something that at first is not fully understood. When you read the whole chapter, Revelation chapter 10, it also talks about (eating?) a book that at first is sweet in the mouth but then bitter in the belly. And that ties in with the word of God being what we eat is what we receive. It's not always fully understood at the time that we read it but as time goes out, we begin to realize or understand on what it meant. For example, you take the situation with the disciples for Christ crucifixion, even though Jesus told them that he was gonna be crucified, they didn't receive it. They didn't understand it. It was only afterwards that they really understood it. So the 7 thunders I think also helps us to understand that there is this mysterious element related in that whole chapter, Revelation chapter 10.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you can read in Daniel chapter 12 verse 9, he said "Go your way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." In other words, here are some knowledge that was sealed until the time of the end. Some of the prophecies of Daniel have not really come to light until the last one or 2 hundred years. Now the second question you asked was on Ellen White, you know there's another website I'll recommend. And it's simply called, if you wanna know more about that, it's called ellenwhitetruth.org ellenwhitetruth.org. And a lot of good information there as well on that. Who do we have next in line, Pastor Ross?

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Lorraine or Lorraine calling from Michigan. Lorraine, welcome to the program.

Lorraine: Hi. I had a question of Mark 3, yeah, Mark 3:29 says that whoever blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, is guilty of eternal sin. I was wondering if that's the unforgivable sin like if God doesn’t forgive you, because I thought he always forgive you.

Pastor Doug: Well, if you read that same passage, Jesus talks about it in Matthew chapter 12, he says "All manner of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven unto men: but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven," by the way, that's Matthew chapter 12 verse 31. And he said all manner of sins will be forgiven. "If any man speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven. Whoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven neither in this world, nor in the world to come." In other words, you can get to a point where there is no mercy. And so we do have a study guide that talks about the unpardonable sin and we'll be happy to send that to you. I believe that’s called "No Turning Back." It covers that there but very quickly what the unpardonable sin is, Lorraine, when a person rejects or resists the impression or conviction in God's Spirit, they can eventually get into the place where they no longer hear the voice of the Holy Spirit. They grieved away the Holy Spirit. That's what Paul says, "grieve not" in Ephesians, "the Holy Spirit were with you are sealed." And that's how a person, by the way, that is Ephesians 4:30. I'd like to just quote it.

Jean Ross: You know there's also a condition to receive and forgive this and that is repentance. Somebody who has so hardened his heart against the promptings of the Holy Spirit he has no desire to repent.

Pastor Doug: Right.

Jean Ross: And if you're not willing to repent, God is unable to forgive.

Pastor Doug: Exactly. All right, thank you, Lorraine, appreciate your call.

Jean Ross: Jean is calling from Oregon. Jean, welcome to the program.

Jean: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I enjoyed your book, first of all, “The Richest Caveman."

Pastor Doug: Well, praise the Lord.

Jean: I was sick and it was very uplifting.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Jean: An inspiration but that's not what I called you about. I'm wondering about people baptizing in the church like my father baptizing his children or a young person baptizing another young person.

Pastor Doug: Well, you're talking about a father who is an ordained minister or just any member.

Jean: No. Yes.

Pastor Doug: Well in the Bible it seems like that the Lord had authorized certain people to clear others for baptism. Let me give you an example of why this is important. Supposed that anybody who accepts Christ, they go and baptize before they're really taught. They go out and they start baptizing in people and maybe they're not taught as well and they ran off and they baptize the first person. It will slow down. Pretty soon, you'll have people getting baptized by people who aren’t even taught by themselves. Christ says in Matthew 28, "Go ye therefore, teach all nations baptizing them.” There's teaching before and there's teaching after. A person should be recognized and ordained before they're baptizing anyone.

And otherwise you lose the screening process to make sure that people are genuinely converted. You know it's interesting, Pastor Ross, I read about some of the early days of the church and they sometimes made a person study for 2 years before they baptize. I mean they really wanted to make sure they understood the commitment. I appreciate your question, Jean, but I apologized we have run out of time listening friends. Hey as for winding up, if we didn’t get your call tonight. Give us another chance. God willing we'll be back next week and be taking live questions once again. And also the program doesn’t really need to end because the website: amazingfacts.com, amazingfacts.org, amazingfacts.tv, amazingfacts.net--are available all week long. And we pray that you'll flag that website. Use the resources in your personal study and write us a note. We love to hear from you. God bless till next week.

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