Lake Peigneur

Date: 01/31/2010 
They knew something was wrong when their drill suddenly seized up at about 1200 ft. and the large derrick began to tilt, pop, and collapsed beneath them.
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Pastor Doug: Hello friends. This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Lake Peigneur was a modest, shallow lake of fresh water near New Iberia, Louisiana. Early in the morning of November 21, 1980, a drilling team was probing for oil under the lake from a large floating platform out in the middle. They knew something was wrong when their drill suddenly seized up at about 1200 ft. and the large derrick began to tilt, pop, and collapsed beneath them. The 12 men working the rig escaped to the shore and watch in amazement as the huge 5 million dollar Texaco Drilling platform overturned and disappeared into a lake that was supposed to be less than 10 feet deep.

Slowly at first the water around that position began to revolve but it steadily accelerated until it became a vast moving whirlpool a quarter of mile across. The tremendous sucking power of this growing vortex was causing violent destruction. It swallowed another nearby drilling platform whole, as well as a barge loading dock, 70 acres of soil from Jefferson Island, plus adding the other truck, trees and structures. The sucking force was so strong that it reversed the flow of a 12-mile-long canal that led out from Lake Peigneur to the Gulf of Mexico. Eleven barges were pulled from the canal and swallowed by the swirling abyss. The monster whirlpool mixed over took a manned tug boat on the canal, which struggled against the current as long as possible, before the crew had to leap on to the canal bank and watch helplessly as the lake consumed their boat.

Meanwhile, far beneath the lake was the Diamond Crystal salt mines were miles of cavernous tunnels, some 80 ft. high and 50 ft. wide, were rapidly filling with water. Evidently, the drillers had miscalculated their position and it punched a small hole into the colossal salt mines, a thousand feet below. Fortunately, one of the mine workers quickly sounded the alarm and all 50 miners managed to barely escape with their lives.

After 3 hours, the 13 hundred acre lake was drained of its 3.5 billion gallons of water. For a while, the water from the canal was even flowing from the Gulf of Mexico back in to the lake forming a one hundred fifty foot waterfall. Can you imagine that? A waterfall, hundred and fifty feet high in Louisiana into the crater where the lake had been. Over the next 2 days, the canal refilled the crater with ocean water and nine of the sunken barges popped back out to the surface like corks. The drilling rig and the tug boat were never found. And all of this started with a little hole about a foot across. Fiends you know the Bible teach us that little things can make a big difference. Stay with us, we're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live. And we're so glad that you've joined us for tonight’s broadcast. If you have a Bible question, we do still have some lines open. Just pick up your phone it's a toll free number and dial 800-GOD-SAYS that's 1-800-463-7297. That will bring you in to the studio. We also have another number we'll give away in a moment and that's the resource line. And we get a lot of calls for the free resources so we park the trails here with the phone lines to reserve the lines coming in with Bible questions. Once again, it's 1-800-4637297. And my name is Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug, let’s begin our program this evening with a prayer.

Dear father, once again we come before you and ask for your blessing on this program. We ask that you lead by Your spirit. Give us wisdom as we search the Scripture. Be with those who are listening and those who call in this evening. For this we ask in Jesus name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Jean Ross: Pastor Doug, who would have guess as those miners were there sending down that drill rig that just a little hole would result in so much destruction and well, you're talking about thousand if not millions of dollars’ worth of equipment that could suck down that hole in to that...

Pastor Doug: The salt mines.

Jean Ross: The salt mines.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, not to mention the Salt Mine was destroyed I think that in the court settlement, Texaco had to pay Diamonds Salt Mine about 45 million dollars but they never officially proved what was responsible and everyone really knew. It was that drilling rig that put a little hole and it drained the lake turned a fresh water lake in to a salt water lake, 10ft deep lake into a hundred foot deep lake change the ecology just swallowed up most of the island, not to mention all that equipment. And it was just a little whole, a foot across, but you know salt start to dissolve when it gets wet and it just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And sometimes people think that Christians are fanatical when they attempt to hold up biblical standards about what God's law says but the problem is if you don't stand for truth in the little things, then it's like punching a hole in the dam. If you don't plug it pretty quick, the whole dam can break. And it's like Jesus said, “He that is faithful, in that which is least, is faithful also in much. He that is unjust, in that which is least is unjust, also in much." So God not only is interested in our obeying and the big things like you don't murder, and you don't steal but he cares about the little things: like some people say, "Well, I don't lie but just may be white lies or you know, the insignificant exaggerations."

He that is unjust and that which is least is unjust in much. If we're wasting our pennies, we'll tend to waste our dollars. And so God is calling for His people to be consistent and to be faithful because little things can make a big difference. It was little nails that held our Savior to the tree. And it was a little piece of fruit that Eve ate that brought this tsunami of misery in to our world. And so I don't wanna sound like I'm being legalistic. And often if you talk about the little areas of disobedience, people accused you of being a legalist. That’s exactly what the devil wants so the people, they ignore those little holes, those termites--A couple termites can bring down a big tree--but they do make a difference. You remember in the Bible say a few misspoken words can cause a forest fire.

We have a special offer tonight that I don't think we've offered this for years but it's a great lesson. It helps the people understand the distinction about what is legalism and what is obedience. Or are they the same thing? The study guide that we're going to offer this evening is obedience is it legalism, “Is Obedience Legalism?" In order to receive this study guide, call our resource line at 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747, asks for the study guide "Is Obedience Legalism?" And we'll be happy to send that out.

Pastor Doug: I always like to remind our friends that at the beginning of the broadcast that a lot of what we offer during the program, they can find in much more at We not only got archives of these radio programs we have the television programs and the sermons, and written books and just a (inaudible 8:46) of prophecy studies and all kinds of materials, Bible study course they can engage in. That's all at amazing--plus a lot of these amazing facts that I I think we're ready to go to the phones.

Jean Ross: All right. Let's go to the phone lines. We have DC calling or listening rather on KFIC, calling from Richmond, California. DC, welcome to the program

DC: Hi guys. How you doing?

Pastor Doug: All right. How can we help you tonight?

DC: Actually, I was wondering if you have a study guide on people murdering their self. Will they go to heaven?

Pastor Doug: Well I don’t think we…

DC: (inaudible 9:25).

Pastor Doug: We don't have a study guide specifically on that purpose. We do have a study guide that talks about of course the law of God, it's called "Written in Stone" where it talks about ‘thou shall not kill’ and that would include yourself but we don’t have a study guide specifically on that. Did you have a question about that subject?

DC: I’m wondering if they go to heaven, still.

Pastor Doug: Let's talk about that. In most cases when a person commits suicide, it's because they've come to a position where they lost hope and they've lost faith and that is typically not a good indicator. But there are exceptions you find in the Bible. Some could accuse Samson of suicide because Samson is the one who typically pushed down the building and ended up taking his life but he was in some respects really sacrificing himself. But I expect to see him in the kingdom because as you read in Hebrews chapter 11, Samson is mentioned there, listed among the heroes of the faith. And so you know God looks on the heart. Man can only look on the outside. Typically, it's not a good sign in the Bible when a person takes their life. You know what happens… DC, you still there?

DC: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Sometimes people are discouraged about their circumstances and maybe that's because you know maybe they're in physical pain. Some people are in hospitals, are in critical condition. And sometimes it’s financial problems: people stock market crashes, they jumped out of the window and other times, a person is discouraged. And they think if they take their life, somehow it will improve their circumstances but that's not true. As long as you're alive, there's hope. It says for the living there's hope. And so that's why we've got to just hang on and trust the Lord to improve our circumstances and to get us through. The Bible promise in 1 Corinthians 10 is God--and I forget the exact verse--1 Corinthians 10, "God will not suffer you to be tempted above what you're able, but will with the temptation provide a way of escape, that you're able to bear it.” And so typically you know, God is not gonna lay a burden on us more than He knows that we can bear. And he's good that way. Would you like that study guide about "Written in Stone"?

DC: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Are you discouraged? Are you asking this question ‘cause you thought about suicide?

DC: No, my brother actually committed it.

Pastor Doug: And that really concerns you, doesn't it?

DC: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well, I know that's heart breaking. And you know we see a lot of that in the world. And unfortunately, the largest group in North America that commits suicide are actually teenagers.

DC: He's the one about party, party too, something like that.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I figured that maybe your brother was above that age range but, yeah, a lot of young people also get discouraged. And they could go through all the pressures of those changing hormones and sometimes they're in schools where they’re teaching them that there's no God. And they believe in evolution and they think when you die and you just turn in to a fertilizer. And they think they can end their unhappiness. So it’s a tragic mistake.

Jean Ross: You know, the verse that you mentioned, Pastor Doug, which does bring hope to us in every circumstance 1 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 13 which says, “There is no temptation that is taken you but that just common to man. God is faithful. He will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you'll be able to bear, but will with the temptation make a way of escape." So there's always hope if we turn to Christ.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, that's what it says in 1 Corinthians 15. There is faith. There is love. There is hope. And so all you can do is just trust the Lord and go on from here, DC.

Jean Ross: DC, the number for that free offer is 1-800-835-6747 and asks for the study guide, "Written in Stones," and we'll send that out. Cliff is listening on the internet calling from New Jersey. Cliff, welcome to the program.

Cliff: Hello. How you guys are doing?

Pastor Doug: All right. And your question tonight.

Cliff: My question is on Revelation chapter 13 verse 13 about beast doing great wonders and bring down (inaudible 13:45). I would just like to know is it actual (inaudible 13:47) or is it a metaphor?

Pastor Doug: Well, let’s talk about that. Now in the Old Testament, there were several examples where prophets of God prayed and fire came down. It's usually a sign of God's power. Elijah prayed on 3 different occasion fire came down just for Elijah. When Solomon dedicated the temple, fire came in to the temple and honored it. And Moses dedicated his temple, fire came down but the devil also brought fire down, literal lightning down on the flocks, I believe, of Job. And so evidently Satan's got that power of lightning.

Jean Ross: You know it's interesting, look at the different time in Scripture where fire came down from Heaven. On the one hand it can represent judgment from God for example, Sodom and Gomorrah but on the other hand, it can also represent God's acceptance or God's approval in the case of Elijah where fire came down and consumed the sacrifice and tongues of fire that the rest are on the apostle, the disciple of Pentecost. and so when it talks about fire coming down from heaven here in Revelation chapter 13 verse 13, this second beast power, it would seem as though what it is doing has God's approval. In that sense, of course, fire down from heaven (inaudible 15:04) for miracles. You can read about that in Revelation chapter 16, Signs and Wonders. It would appear as though God is behind this or blessing us but in reality, it's the devil trying to win the support of the world, and to try and enforce his agenda.

Pastor Doug: So because Revelation uses a lot of symbols, as Pastor Ross said, it can be a symbol of that but it wouldn’t be beyond that Satan to masquerade and do a sign like that. I’m trying to think of about a study guide that we might have, Pastor Ross, that would...

Jean Ross: You know dealing with that, maybe "The USA in Bible Prophecy" that is the beast that's been referred to you--

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Jean Ross: -- in Revelation chapter 13 verse 13 called "The USA in Bible Prophecy." And for anyone who's listening, if you'd like to learn more about that, give us a call on our resource line 1-800-835-6747 1-800-835-6747 and asks for the study guide--

Pastor Doug: Go ahead. US of Prophecy…

Jean Ross: US Prophecy that you’re gonna…

Pastor Doug: Well, I'll just gonna say, we also have that book called “The Beast: Who Will Worship It?" by Gary Gibbs. And it has I think, also, it deals with that verse. Appreciate your question, Cliff.

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Bruce and he is listening on KFIA, listening from Hidden Valley. Bruce, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Bruce: Yeah, I'm not too far from anyone but I (can’t see this dark.?)

Pastor Doug: That’s all right.

Bruce: God bless you guys. Thanks for being there. We all like to talk about the Bible and I love it when you guys let us.

Pastor Doug: Well, thank you.

Bruce: You know what? Now first of all, this is Job, now can you see Jesus and having wearing a garment and it's got a monogram says JOB on it--Jesus of Bethlehem--but anyway this is Job and this is chapter 40 verse 6.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Bruce: Through 9, I'm curious about it. And then also Deuteronomy chapter 5 verse 25, but this is my chronological year to the Bible. I think its living translation. I hope I don’t (inaudible 17:01) anybody I know people are curious about some translations. But, “This has been the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind.” Now my next question is about Moses, who I guess also I, heard from the Lord from the whirlwind and time and again, it says “Brace yourself because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them. 'Are you going to discredit my justice and condemn me so you can say that you were right? Are you strong as God and can you thunder with a voice like this?'” And then the other one is Deuteronomy chapter 5 verse 25, it says, "If we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, then we will die” but I'm just saying you know there's a number of situations where God spoke from clouds: John the Baptist is baptizing Jesus. I mean you know if there were a situations where he spoke, but this kind of fear is not evident anywhere except in the Old testament, as far as I know, except maybe if the in the end of the world when the shout comes from heaven. Can you explain--

Pastor Doug: Well, let's...

Bruce: --this a little more?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I'll do my best.

Bruce: Okay.

Pastor Doug: There is one place in the New Testament where the voice of God spoke and say, “This is my beloved Son," in the gospel of John when this was recounted--and I'm trying to remember the verse. It says some thought they heard thunder: it was the voice of God. And some distinctly heard what God said while others present had thought it was thunder. And so obviously, the voice of God is talk about a resonating powerful voice. When God gave the 10 Commandments, the whole mountain shook and it was full of smoke.

Jean Ross: That verse is John 12:29.

Pastor Doug: So you know just the awesome power of God and you know God speaks from the smoke and the fire on top of the mountain, in Exodus chapter 20 and he's spoke from the whirlwind and you know then God spoke to Elijah, not in the fire, not in the earthquake, not in the wind, God spoke to Elijah in a still, small voice. So God can whisper and God can shout. It depends on the occasion.

Bruce: Can I say one quick thing about the whirlwind?

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Bruce: Just really quick. Now, I'm driving from Jerusalem to the Red sea. Is there something in the red sea? You know, it's 8 hours probably drive. And I'm a little bored and I'm looking around. And I'm in the Sinai and I prayed in "Jesus name, dear Father hear my prayer. What did Moses see when he was here?" And I saw a whirlwind [laughs] went up to the (dusk?) and (it?) was all inside of my car. It was (at June?). It was a red ford focus, a motor cycle is behind me but we both watch this whirlwind for about an hour.

Pastor Doug: Wow.

Bruce: Through the dessert and it was about probably 80 ft. high. I was looking for toads in the bottom. [Laughs] And then I said, "(Oh man?), that's enough for the day you know."

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you saw what we would commonly call... they call these like a devil duster when we'd go ride, and Pastor Ross, out in the dessert. We’d see these and you don’t wanna pray for the presence of God and call out the devil duster. Hey, we appreciate that, Bruce. We're gonna try and get another couple of calls in here. Thank you for your question.

Jean Ross: We have Donna calling from Detroit, Michigan. Donna welcome to the program.

Donna: Hi. How are you Pastors? How you doing?

Pastor Doug: Real well. How about you?

Donna: I'm doing pretty good but I've got a question. In the Book of Leviticus--I believe it's in the sixth chapter, I'm confused--when you pay your 10% tithe, is there additional money that you have to pay if you’re late? Or if you don’t pay tithes, is what 5%... can I get an understanding on that? It's on chapter 6...

Pastor Doug: Now, you're in Leviticus chapter 6.

Donna: Yes. Yeah, chapter 6 and I'm trying to find out… There's another one, too. I'll deal with that one. Do you give an extra 5% for being late with God's tithe or if you don't pay tithes?

Pastor Doug: Well, I'm still looking for the verse here you're referring to.

Donna: Okay.

Jean Ross: Now do you understand that a tithes would be 10% of your increase. So you're wondering if you're late, like taxes, you're late in paying your tithes, do you pay a little extra?

Donna: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Well, I think that you maybe referring to Leviticus 6 verse 5 where it says, "Or about all that he has sworn falsely he shall even restored it in the principal." It means what he originally made a promise and adds the fifth part so I think 20% more to. So if a person makes a pledge and they failed to pay their pledge, they were to also be (assessed?) 20%. You know, It's like sometimes if you bounce a checklist, "Hey, look. you said you're gonna pay something and you bounce a check and we gotta process it." and they add a percentage to it but when you made a pledge to the Lord and you failed to pay it--this is different I think than tithes, unless you're talking about another verse.

Donna: Okay now that is 5 verse 5. 15 and 16 verse, (22:01) chapter 15/16 verse.

Pastor Doug: The fifth chapter of Leviticus.

Donna: Yeah, and the 15 and 16 verse. I'm getting the impression that neglecting to pay tithes and eating parts of the sacrifice that belongs to the priest, failing to redeem the first born, you have to pay.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, there was a… they had a scale for offering. Some people when they go to the sanctuary, they might bring an offering to buy the lamb if they didn't have. Not everybody have their own lambs and sometimes they buy them.

Donna: Okay.

Pastor Doug: But there are offerings that they would bring for their trespass offerings. And it says here, "If a soul committed a trespass and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the Lord then he'll bring for his trespass unto the Lord, a lamb without blemish out of the flock with eye estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary for trespass offering." And so you know they had a sliding scale that went up and down with their economy, that's why he said after your estimation based upon the value of this lamb without blemish. And so this was usually an offering that was made for family and for a, you know, a tribe sometimes would do this also. And so I hope that helps a little bit, Donna. You still there? Okay. I appreciate your question, Donna. Let's see who's the next one, Pastor Ross?

Jean Ross: Alright. We've got Julian listening on WMCA from Brooklyn, New York. Julian, welcome to the program.

Julian: Hi. How you doing pastors?

Pastor Doug: Good.

Julian: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Yes, you are here. Can you hear us?

Julian: Yes, I can hear you. I have a question on tithing. Ten percent of what I make for tithing, to whom would you pay the 10% to? I don’t know.

Pastor Doug: Well, it tells us that all of the tithe is Holy unto to the Lord in the Bible in the Old Testament the tithe went for the support of the priesthood and the Leviticus ministry. The tribe of Levi did not receive an inheritance in Israel. What their work was they would go throughout the land of Israel and minister to the people. And so they didn't get a land inheritance like the other of the 12 tribes did. And so the Levites, to support them in ministry, they were supported of a tenth of the increase from the flocks, from the herds and the farms. And it went to the sanctuary and from there it were divided up and distributed to the priest and the Levites and their families. So the modern equivalent of that would be as Paul said those that work with the gospel should live with the gospel. In other words, you don’t muzzle the ox that treads the grain. The people who are involved in fulltime ministry should be sustained by that. I know a lot of churches were the pastors are self-supporting and they don’t have a lot of time for ministry for the people because they are so busy trying to supply food for their families. So the tithes that say bring it to the store house, in the Malachi chapter 3 and the storehouse, was either in the sanctuary or in one of the cities of refuge where it was distributed to the priesthood.

Julian: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right. We appreciate that. We do have a study guide that talks about that.

Jean Ross: We do. Julian, if you call our resource line 1-800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide entitled "In God We Trust." “In God We Trust” dealing with the subject of tithes and offering. The number again is 1-800-835-6747. Well, let’s see, do you have time for one more caller before we go to a break?

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Jean Ross: Let’s try. WE got Therese who is calling from Manhattan, New York. Therese, welcome to the program.

Therese: Thank you. Pastor Doug, I’m just wondering the Song of Solomon...

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Therese: Second chapter, the fifteenth verse, it says "Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vine for our vine has tender grapes." What does that mean?

Pastor Doug: Well, I tell you that Song of Solomon is a very interesting book. It’s talking a lot about the love of a groom for his bride. And the Song of Solomon, the big picture is a metaphor of Christ for his church. It's also believed that it was a poem that was written between a bride and the groom that was sung by the bride's maids. And others believed that it also talk about a romance between Solomon and a Shunammite. It often talks about the Shunammite in this. King David, just before he died, he couldn't get warm. I know I'm giving you a longer answer than you ask.

Therese: No, this is wonderful.

Pastor Doug: King David, he evidently had congested heart failure something because he was just shivering all the time and so his council said you know, “What do we do?" Well, they didn't have electric blankets and hot water bottles back then. So they said, “Let's find a beautiful young virgin that got good circulation,”--though they didn't use those words--and have her climb into bed with him and cuddle him and warm him up. And they found a beautiful shunammite woman named Abishag that sort of married the king but never had relations with him. It said that very explicitly. After David died, it’s surmise that Solomon wanted to take this young girl, who was really just his father's hot water bottle, as a wife that he fell in love with her. And when he talks about the little foxes that spoil the vine, those are things that little foxes would chew on the base of the vine and kill the whole great vine. And so it's this little thing. It’s just like our illustration we started with. Sometimes little things can cause a lot of problem and so when it says, “Take us,” it means fetch the little foxes that spoil the vine. You may also remember the story where Solomon... No. No. Samson caught 300 foxes. He tied their tails together and set on fire the fields of the Philistines so these are trapped foxes back then cause they were a menace to their farms.

Hey, we're just taking a break. We’re not going away. There's an exciting news to share with you when we come back from this. If you've joined us along the way, this is Bible Answers Live and don’t forget the website is Don’t go away. More Bible questions coming.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back listening friends. If some of you have joined us enroute, this is a Bible answers live. It's a live international interactive Bible study. And we are on hundreds of stations across North America. And we get calls from all over the world via the internet and even have some overseas station to carry the program live. And we are gonna go right back to the phones in a moment. But Pastor Ross and I have got some good news something that recently was developed by the Amazing Facts team for the millions of people out there that have the iPhone. Amazing facts now has a special application where you can access a wealth of Bible study information you can do on the spot Bible study with our Bible study lessons. You can watch, stream in video and have all the answers right at your fingertips. It's an Amazing Facts iPhone app. And it's got the Amazing Facts studies and video, and Bible studies, and all kind of resources. All you gotta do is go to your app store and type in AF mobile, AF space mobile in the search bar and you click AF mobile. Good news is--did I mention?--It's free. All you've got to do is type in, if you want all these Bible study resources right at your fingertips on your iPhone, type in A F space Mobile. One thing we ask for though, since we're giving it to you for free, you've got to tell two friends and one enemy so let people know about that.

Jean Ross: You know there are link I'm looking at here on the website. There are literally hundreds of sermons that are available through this application that connects you directly at the website. You can view sermons. You can listen to sermons. I bet there's people right now listening to Bible Answers Live on their iPhone using this application.

Pastor Doug: just go type in where you get to your iPhone applications and type in af mobile. And it’s free. And, of course, we were still telling people about the new website that's probably a popular website we have out of hundreds, next to the Amazing Facts, the main mother ship website and that is Bible Prophecy Truth. Bible Prophecy Truth has just an encyclopedia of Bible prophecy information, videos, charts. You name it it’s there. Take a look. If you've not been there, I think you'll be impress. Okay Pastor Ross.

Jean Ross: All right. Next caller, we go to the phone lines, Jeffrey is calling from Michigan. Jeffrey, you're on the air.

Jeffrey: Yes.

Pastor Doug: And your question.

Jeffrey: My question is if you're probation close on already, you repented, will God give you this one more chance.

Pastor Doug: Well, first of all, if you want to repent, you're probation probably hasn’t close. It says in Revelation that when the seven last plagues pull out, the people who are lost, they don’t pray and repent they cursed God. And are you worried that your probation is close?

Jeffrey: Yes, I am.

Pastor Doug: No, you don’t need to worry. Jeffrey, I think the Holy Spirit is working on you. First of all, God is not trying to close your probation early. He wants to keep the door open as long as possible. The people on the Bible, when their probation close, they lost interest in spiritual things. You get people like Judas and like Saul, just grieved away the spirit through years of resistance. You mind my asking Jeffrey, how old you are?

Jeffrey: I'm 12 years old.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you're probation hasn't close young man. Hey...

Jeffrey: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: I know God still have mercy on me and I bet my record of sin is a lot bigger than yours. [Jeffrey laughs]

Jean Ross: You know we take courage the Bible says the God’s not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Pastor Doug: We do have a list on the lesson that we can send to Jeffrey that deals with the subject of unpardonable sin so he can understand that. When a person commits the unpardonable sin, their probation closes. And so I don’t think you'd be calling with spiritual question now if you grieved away the Holy Spirit.

Jean Ross: All right. To receive that lesson dealing with the subject of the unpardonable sin, "No Turning Back" is the name of the study guide. “No Turning Back," Jeffrey, call 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the study guide entitled "No Turning Back" and we will get that in the mail to you. Our next caller is John and he's calling from Columbia, South Carolina. John, welcome to the program.

John: Good evening. Pastor Doug. I have a question, more of a curiosity.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

John: In Revelation 12:9 when Lucifer and his angels were cast out of heaven, it says they were cast out to this earth. And then in Genesis, when you read the beginning of creation of Genesis 1:1, it says Earth was void and without form. So it's kind of a 2-part question. Was Lucifer cast out to Earth that was void and without form? And the other question, kind in relation with this, would be after God created Adam and Eve and establish the Garden of Eden, exactly how long were they here before Eve was tempted with the fruit?

Pastor Doug: Okay, two good questions. Let me see if I can give you a quick answer to that. First of all, when was Lucifer cast out of heaven? Keep in mind, Revelation 12 is covering thousands of years in that just few verses, about 17 verses, it's (referring?) thousands of years. So Lucifer’s rebellion in heaven, we believe, happened even before God created the Earth. and Lucifer may have roamed through. He has been evicted from heaven, probably roamed through the cosmos looking for other worlds to join him and his angels in the rebellion and he didn’t find any until he came to our world. And when that Adam and Eve decided to listen to the devil instead of God, Lucifer was restricted to this planet. He was cast out, so to speak, to the earth. So he's being evicted from heaven and being restricted to earth. There may have been many years between those two points. Now then you ask another good question, from the time Adam and Eve were created until they actually spend how time went by, and Bible can't give us a date but I think we can be safe and say it's probably less than a year. And one reason for that would be, of course, the devil uses the (blitzkrieg?). He tries to attack quickly while they were young and innocent, so to speak. Secondly, God had told Adam and Eve, "Go be fruitful and multiply." And since they were in perfect health and all the (plumbing?) was fine, they hadn’t had any children yet. So evidently, he just probably within a few months of creation. And then it tells us shortly after sin, they began to have their first children. So we don’t think they have very much time to enjoy paradise before the devil deceives them.

John: Okay.

Jean Ross: You know there's a verse in Luke chapter 10 verse 18 where Jesus, “He be held safe and his lightning fall from heaven.” He puts it in the past tense so Satan being cast out of heaven happened at some early point in time. And then according to Revelation chapter 12, it sounds as though there was a second sort of confining to the earth in connection with Christ crucifixion.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. You know John, we have a new DVD. We should have said something about this, too.

Jean Ross: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: That Amazing Facts spent 3 years developing, it's actually a DVD, you watch with recreations and animations that show in display the whole story of why there is sin in the universe, in our world: where the devil came from? How Lucifer rebelled and fell and got restricted to this planet? IT tells about the fall of Lucifer and the fall of Adam and eve and it's simply called "Cosmic Conflict." And you can even see the trailer just by going to Google or YouTube and just type in ‘cosmic conflict,’ the origin of evil. And you can order the DVD, 45 minutes of running time. IT's a little more than that maybe. And it's just like watching a movie that explains the whole thing, very interesting. So take a look at cosmic conflict, John. Oh, by the way, we do have that lesson also, you can order for free, "Did God Create the Devil?"

Jean Ross: The number to call is 1-800-835-6747, that’s our resource line. And you can ask, John, for the study guide "Did God Create a Devil?" Our next caller is Nancy and she's calling from Oregon. Nancy, welcome to the program.

Nancy: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi. And your question.

Nancy: I am not really good on the genecology. I remember several places on the Bible where it says that a certain event happened so many years after certain king.

Pastor Doug: Right.

Nancy: And... I guess people who know about history and stuff like that might be able to pinpoint the year that those things happen…

Pastor Doug: Right.

Nancy: But I cannot figure out what year these things happen from that information.

Pastor Doug: You know, it is difficult in the Bible. You’re reading the history all through the Bible before they had established what we, you think as the ADBC dating method. And in Bible times, they used to date history in varying years of the primary monarchs. So you would have like in the 3rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, in the 5th year of Solomon.

Nancy: My question that comes to my mind whenever I hear that...

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Nancy: It’s like, "So what year would that be?"

Pastor Doug: Exactly. Well, you know what? it’s difficult if there are Bibles, and I’ve got a number of Bibles, as you're reading through the Old Testament, the years are written right there in the margin and I mean in our modern years, it'll say you know 1000BC for King David. And so you can see roughly the years when things happen because they didn’t have the ADBC dating method. They use the reign of different pharaohs and kings to or even the judges in the period of Judges to scale when things happened.

Jean Ross: You know, it would be helpful is if you have access to a computer. You can even probably get this, you know, that software called e-Sword. And there are commentaries there that when you type in a verse, it talks about such and such year of the king. It should give you the--

Pastor Doug: Dates.

Jean Ross: --the dates or at least approximate date when that event occurred.

Pastor Doug: That's some free software, Nancy that you can get. It's simply called and you can download that. And Pastor Ross and I both have that in our computer along with some other software. And thanks to the designers of that. Hope that helps a little bit but otherwise is it difficult to try and figure out what year was that you know the 3rd year of Jehoshaphat. All right I appreciate your question.

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Martin and he is calling from Brooklyn, New York. Martin, welcome to the program.

Martin: Hello there.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Martin: Thank you for taking my call. Okay now talking about 17:3, it's John chapter 17 verse 3.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Martin: "Now this is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent," Now I wanna know what it means by that.

Pastor Doug: Well first of all, when Jesus speaks to the (laws?), it tells us in Matthew chapter 7, many will say "Lord, Lord,"' and they'll say "I don’t know you." And then again in the book of Hosea, I believe it's chapter 4 verse 6, it says, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” So eternal life comes from a personal relationship with Jesus, with knowing the Lord. And so Christ is saying right there in his special prayer of John 17 that eternal life, the essence of eternal life is knowing the Lord, being restored to that relationship of the Lord, Father, Son and Spirit.

Jean Ross: In other way, we get to know God's by spending time and prayer and studying His Word. You know in programs like this, where we're talking about the Bible, we're talking about God and we're getting to know God, you're getting to understand Him but it's more than just intellectual understanding of truth. We really wanna know God in the heart. We want the Holy Spirit to be dwelling within us and we can ask for that. We can ask for the Holy Spirit.

Pastor Doug: And yup, and through studying the word, you get to know someone--I know people who have done their courtship long distance through the mail and people do it now through the internet. And they can get to know a lot about a person through on going communication when God does even more for the net? For us. He reveals himself through his word, through his spirit, through providence and we get to know him and of course, surrendering in our lives to him and obey him as well. I appreciate it, Martin. I hope that helps a little bit.

Jean Ross: You know maybe something that, Martin, would appreciate is a book dealing with the subject of prayer because prayer is important in getting to know God. It's a book written by Pastor Doug entitled, “Teach Us to Pray.” and for anyone that's listening, if you'd like to receive that book, call our resource line 1-800-835-6747 and asks for the book “Teach Us to Pray.” Our next caller is Wanda and she's calling from Brooklyn, New York. Wanda, welcome to the program.

Wanda: Hi. How are you?

Pastor Doug: Very well.

Wanda: Fine. Thank you. My quick question is I would have a quick question about tithing.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Wanda: I heard (two?) talked about it. Someone mentioned to me that the Jewish people no longer tithes. And so I can’t believe it so I went online. And I found something saying that they don’t tithe anymore like they only give a certain amount to the temple so that's it. So I wanted to know they don’t.

Pastor Doug: Well, when first of all, I'm half Jewish. My mother was Jewish. So when you say the Jewish people… the Jewish religion is fragmented as the Christian religion in that there are all kinds of different rankings and divisions among the Jewish people. You've got the Very Orthodox Jews and you've got very Liberal Jews and a lot of different divisions and even teachings among the Jews. Among the more orthodox Jews, I think they do still pay tithes. So the reason we do--well, first of all the Jews don’t have a Levitical priesthood anymore and sacrifices in the sanctuary so that could be one reason that many of the American Jews don’t tithe is that they say "Well, I used to go to the sanctuary to pay the Levites and the priest. We don’t have them anymore," but for the Christian we have different kinds of priesthood. First of all, we've got ministers that are engaged full time in missionaries and the proclamation of the gospel and the temple now is the church. You know the body of Christ is people is the temple. Christ, when he spoke about tithe in Matthew 23:23, he said these things you should not leave undone and he specifically speaks of tithes. So you know Christ never said there was anything wrong with the system of tithe. In the New Testament, it actually looks like they were giving much more than 10% when you read in Acts chapter 4 that the people were selling their houses and lands. I mean they were making just incredibly huge sacrifices to spread the gospel right in the days of Jesus. So it wasn’t like they were counting out you know one penny out of 10 that they could use for God's work, the people were giving half of their wealth and more. So the New Testament positioned is not less than 10%. You'd hope that folks had bigger commitment to that. Does that make sense, Wanda?

Wanda: Sure. That means if I tithe which I really don’t, honestly I don't, am I missing out on the blessings?

Pastor Doug: Well, let me tell you, the Lord says, "Prove me. Test me," this is Malachi chapter 3, "and see if I don’t open for you the windows of heaven." He also goes on to say, "I will rebuke the devourer for your sake." In other words, the things that devour your increase in your income. You know, you buy a car, the next thing you know it breaks down. Oh, you know all these expenses. He'll hold back those unexpected expenses and he'll bless what you have if you're faithful and you're trusting him with what we do have. That doesn't make sense mathematically but for a believer, 90% will always go further than a 100%.

Wanda: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Now, we have a lesson that we'll send you on this. It's free if you like it.

Wanda: Okay. So the 10% of before the salary whatever you take home?

Pastor Doug: I pay my tithe out of my gross and you know whatever the taxes I pay, that's part of my expense. And some people pay social security and they get it back later so I’ve heard people argue it both ways. I just--

Jean Ross: You know the principle is you can't out give God. You know, if we faithfully do what we can to support the work, God will bless us. That a study guide that we're offering, Wanda, it does deal with a number of these questions and gives you a lot of Scripture with the subject of tithe. It's called "In God We Trust" and the number to call is 1-800-835-6747. It's 1-800-835-6747 and asks for the study guide “In God We Trust." Let’s see who's our next caller. We have Salvia who is calling from...

Pastor Doug: Sylvia.

Jean Ross: Sylvia calling from Connecticut. Sylvia, welcome to the program.

Sylvia: Oh, thank you so much. I also have a question about tithing. I don’t have my own income. My husband's not a believer. So I give money in church but I don’t know if that’s what should be the principle for me in terms of tithing.

Pastor Doug: That's a good question. I know Pastor Ross had that before, too. You've got a household where the principal incomer maybe isn’t a believer and the spouse is and they wanted to be faithful in supporting the work of God, what do they do? First of all, you need to talk with your spouse and say you know I realize that I maybe stay home and will do my work at home and you do your work elsewhere and you bring in the cash but I'm also part of the family. We’re here to be one flesh. You need to have the right some spending, a budget for you. , any good family who've got a budget of some sort. And whatever the budget is that your husband has allotted say you know this is your money and your?? Money and whatever you want to do with it and then you can determine your tithes and offering from that, whatever your percentage is.

Sylvia: Okay.

Pastor Doug: I know it makes it difficult in a family. Some spouses will say, “I work hard for my money. You're not giving it to any church.” And they could make it difficult. Then, God understands that. You know, so you do what you can.

Sylvia: Because I don’t really take the money for myself like every month. I use money for here, for this and that, for the expenses so I never taken really an allowance.

Pastor Doug: Well, you know if you have a good relationship with your husband and you just say, "Look, I believe God is gonna bless you even you may not believe because you allow me to support the work of Christ in the world. then I believe he's gonna bless you and so I'm just gonna let you know ahead of time that I plan on giving some tithe and offering to my church family."

Sylvia: That would be he went to church with me --months ago even though he's not a believer--and he saw me writing a check. And when he saw the amount of this check, he got upset. [Pastor laughs] He was giving all this money to church and so I said "No, that was the right thing to do."

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you need to remind him that's why he still has money.

Sylvia: Right.

Pastor Doug: Because he's been given. [Laughs]

Sylvia: God has given... The money that I'm giving is not yours.

Pastor Doug: I don’t wanna get you in trouble, Sylvia. You know you need to talk with your husband and have an understanding and do what you can. And God’s not gonna be up there with a hammer watching you to, you know, punish you if your husband’s giving you a hard time. The Lord watches principally our hearts and so that's the main thing. We'll also… if you like, we'll send you that study guide that we mentioned.

We've got three questions on tithe. We didn't ask for it but we got 3-4 questions tonight on tithe. We'll send you that study guide.

Jean Ross: Again, it's called "In God We Trust" and the number is 1-800-835-6747. Our next Caller is Dot and she's calling from Idaho. Dot, welcome to the program.

Dot: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Yes, you’re on, Dot.

Dot: My question would be if you could just explain Colossians 2:16.

Pastor Doug: Yes. We'll go there and do our best to give you a quick explanation. And this is a verse that people often ask about when the subject of the Sabbath comes up because well, let me just read it for you. Colossians 2, I'm gonna actually start with verse 14, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and he took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." All right. So first of all, its context of this subject is the handwriting of ordinances that was against the people and it would be nailed to the cross. Now, some have wondered is this talking the 10 commandments being nailed to the cross. No, Jesus did not come to make it okay to--you know, lie and to steal, to kill and commit adultery--because it mentions the Sabbath later on. Some have wondered if it’s the 10 commandments but it uses the word Sabbath as days. Now let me read this verse 15, “Having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man be therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holiday, or the new moon or the Sabbath days."

In the ordinances in the Levitical Laws, there were annual Sabbaths, new moons, holidays--this was all part of the Levitical law that was written on paper, handwritten by Moses, nailed to the cross. They were all shadows. And he says in the next verse, verse 17, "which are a shadow of things to come." The Levitical law came after sin to help people recognize Jesus when he came. And all the Levitical Sabbaths came after sin. They were annual yearly Sabbaths. The Sabbath of creation was before sin spoken by God. IT's you know the Sabbath of the Lord. Jesus said it was made for man, mankind, not for Jews. It was not nailed to the cross. People still need that day of worship, that day of rest. And so some have wondered about this verse what Paul is speaking about the Jewish ceremonial Sabbaths.

You know we've got a book dealing with the subject entitled "Feast days and Sabbaths." and it deals with this very verse, if you'd give us a call on our resource line, Dot, 1-800-835-6747, ask for the book "Feast Days and Sabbaths." And we'll be happy to send that out to you.

Jean Ross: Our next caller is Marsha and she's calling from Dearborn, Michigan. Marsha, welcome to the program.

Marsha: Yes, hi good evening Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross. How you guys doing tonight?

Pastor Doug: Doing well Marsha.

Marsha: Okay, my question is about the stones that Lucifer was covered with. It's the same stones that should be found on earth. So did God kept them from earth or did He create them or...

Pastor Doug: That's an interesting question. And I think Marsha is referring to is it Ezekiel 28 where it talks about every precious stone was your covering. I get it... Is it Ezekiel 28?

Marsha: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: And then it lists the topaz, the sapphire and the (inaudible 54:02) and it’s listing precious gems. You know those are gems that also denoted color. Stones color that has specific color. We don’t know where the Lord God got the precious gems that adorned Lucifer when he's the unfallen angel. You know God may even have other worlds that share the same beautiful minerals and gems that we have here. It's a big universe and there might some other similarities out there.

Jean Ross: We do know from the biblical record that the New Jerusalem has these precious stones and actually--

Pastor Doug: From the foundation.

Jean Ross: -- (inaudible 55:04) was made from gold.

Pastor Doug: That’s right, and the foundation in the New Jerusalem. Most of these stones can be found so yeah the Lord had special garments for him. We have time for one more question. Let’s take a quick one.

Jean Ross: All right. We have Bobby who is calling from South Carolina. Bobby, welcome to the program.

Bobby: Hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Bobby. We need to do this quickly. We’ve got just a moment.

Bobby: Thank you for taking my question.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Bobby: My husband was baptized as a Christian and took a vow to not drink alcohol. He continues to drink alcohol and it's getting worse. I’m thinking, I’m praying very hard about the situation and considering whether to separate from him so that it will motivate him--[clears throat] excuse me--To you know get some help. He’s in denial right now. I have two checks that I’m going back and forth and can’t decide what which is right. The first one is 1 Corinthians 5: 11 and 13.

Pastor Doug: 1 Corinthians 5:11. Okay. Now, let me read this. “But now I've written unto you not to keep company, if any man is called a brother that he is a fornicator, covetous, and idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard.” Now keeping company is talking about hanging out with friends. You’ve married this person though. I wouldn't apply that verse. Now I’m not saying that your situation isn't difficult. Do you have children?

Bobby: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Well, I would say you need to have an understanding with your husband that you both need to get in to counseling. If you are at risk or the children are at risk in any way, you should separate until that you know the problem is addressed or at least they begin some counseling but if you're not at risk and there's been no danger to you or the children, then I do your best to try and convert him. It says by your holy conversation, your behavior, not by preaching but by prayer and being a good example. I know that's difficult. I’m sorry to be so short with such an important question, Bobby. Listening friends, we're about out of time but don’t forget about the new Amazing Facts application at the app store for your iPhones: all our Bible studies. God bless. Until next week, friends. Remember Jesus is the truth that will set you free.

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