Endurance

Endurance

Date: 03/20/2011 
In September 490 BC, Darius, the Persian king sent an army of 25,000 to crush an army of 10,000 Athenian troops fighting for liberty. The Greek general, aware that his army was greatly outnumbered sent Pheidippides, one of the fastest runners in Greece to carry the urgent request to Sparta, asking for reinforcements.

Life in the Spirit (PB) by Joe Crews

Life in the Spirit (PB) by Joe Crews
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Hello friends, this is Doug Batchelor, how about an amazing fact? In September 490 BC, Darius, the Persian king sent an army of 25,000 to crush an army of 10,000 Athenian troops fighting for liberty. The Greek general, aware that his army was greatly outnumbered sent Pheidippides, one of the fastest runners in Greece to carry the urgent request to Sparta, asking for reinforcements. Pheidippides covered the 147 miles in a day and a night. The Spartans agreed to come following the full moon, after eating a small meal and with no sleep, Pheidippides ran with the message all the way back to Athens again in 24 hours. Almost immediately after arriving, poor Pheidippides had to then march with the army to the plain of Marathon where they engaged in a fierce but triumphant battle against the Persians.

As soon as the fight was over, excited to share the good news, Pheidippides then ran the 23 miles back to Athens. Upon reaching the Athenian market place Pheidippides shouted “Victory, victory” and then fell dead. Some people think it was the 23 mile marathon that killed Pheidippides. It was more likely the lack of sleep, the lack of food, the infantry battle and over 300 miles of cross country running in 4 days that killed him. That first Greek marathon runner has nothing on Dean Karnazes. Men’s fitness magazine says that Dean might just be the fittest man in the world. Dean has travelled the country, speaking and running ultra-marathons to promote the importance of physical exercise and good diet, he recently ran 50 marathons in all 50 states in 50 consecutive days, finishing with the New York City Marathon. As a finale to this incredible achievement, he then ran back from New York City to St. Louis, Missouri, covering nearly 1300 miles along the way.

A lover of the outdoors, Dean has pushed his body and mind to the inconceivable limits. Among his many accomplishments, he ran a 135 mile ultra-marathon across Death Valley in a 120 degree temperature and a marathon to the South Pole in -40 degrees. But Dean Karnazes has gone even farther than that, the longest run that he’s done is 350 miles, running for 80 hours and 4 minutes over 3 sleepless nights. Did you know the Bible talks about a prophet that fled 40 days and 40 nights covering over a thousand miles on only one meal? Stay with us listening friends we’re going to learn more as amazing facts bring you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: We are live and this “Bible Answers Live”, and we’d encourage you to call in with your Bible questions, if you want to talk to Pastor Jëan Rossor or myself, it’s a toll free number, that number is “1-800-GODSAYS”, that’s an acronym to make it easy, the number is “463-7297”, it’s a toll free call. Lines are open, so if you’ve got a Bible question, here’s your chance friends. We’re on hundreds of stations across the country and around the world with this international, interactive Bible study and we invite you to join us by listening, by praying for us, as we search the word together and by calling in your questions. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug, let’s begin the program again with prayer. Dear Father, once again we thank You, that we do have this opportunity to study Your word and we ask for Your Holy Spirit to be with us, guide us as we search the Bible, we recognize that the Bible is indeed Your book and we need the Holy Spirit in order to correctly understand it. So we pray for a special blessing and for those who are listening and for us here in the studio, in Jesus name we pray, Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about incredible feeds of endurance, people running amazing distances but you mentioned in the Bible, there was a prophet that ran 40 days with just one meal.

Pastor Doug: Yes and if you look in your Bible in “1st Kings 19 verse 7 and 8”, a little background. Elijah the prophet was basically being threatened by Jezebel, she put a price on his head and he fled from Jezreel and begun to run out into the wilderness. And out in the wilderness he was totally exhausted from running for so long, that he just fell asleep under a bush out in the middle of nowhere and prayed he might die. When he woke up, an angel was there and he said “the journey’s too great for you, eat” and there was a vessel of water and some bread that the angel provided, well he drank the water, he ate and fell back to sleep. He was so exhausted, he woke up again and there was more food and water there and he ate and drank again. And then he got up and it says “In the strength of that food...” and by the way, let me read it to you, it’s again 1st Kings 19:7 and 8 “and the angel of the Lord came back the second time and touched him and said arise and eat because the journey is too great for you”. So he arose, he ate and drank, and he went in the strength of that food, 40 days and 40 nights as far as Horeb, the mountain of God. And many scholars believed that’s the real Horeb Mountain, Mt. Sinai was down in Saudi Arabia which would have been about over a thousand miles maybe 13,000 miles from Israel. And so that’s quite a marathon run, I don’t know if he ran non-stop but it says “day and night” he kept going trying to get as far away as he could. Now, it’s not that God is just performing a miracle so someone could run. I think there’s a spiritual analogy here that angels’ food and angel water, you might say that he ate and drank, represents the living water of God’s word and that Bible bread. And it’s as we nourish our souls with the word of God, with the bread of life, we are able to run that race, this marathon of the Christian life. And we want to talk about that, if someone wants to know more about, how to get the kind of food that will help you be victorious in the marathon of life. Now we’ve got a free offer for you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The book that we have, written by Pastor Doug dealing with the Bible, is entitled “The Ultimate Resource” and we’ll send it to you for free. All you’ll need to do is call our resource line, the number is 1-800-835-6747, ask for the book “The Ultimate Resource” dealing with the Bible and we’ll be happy to send that out to you.

Well, Pastor Doug, we’re ready for the phone lines.

Pastor Doug: All right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’re going to go to David, who is listening on the internet in Sacramento, California. David welcome to the program.

David: Yes, how are you doing Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: Evening David. How can we help you tonight?

David: And you too, Jëan Ross both, how are you doing?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi David.

Pastor Doug: Thank you.

David: Good, I have a question for you, I was listening in one of your sermons and maybe I misunderstood but the question that you were presented was, if we have an opportunity to witness to someone and we pass up the opportunity to witness to them, we basically lost our chance, maybe at the moment or permanently, I’m not sure of going to heaven. But if we witness the truth to someone and that person rejects the truth after understanding it, then that person lost the opportunity, but we have not, we still kept ours and I don’t know, I’m just a little confused on that.

Pastor Doug: Well, it is true that every believer has a responsibility, as well as the privilege to share the good news with people and we are, I think, accountable for those opportunities. Now, that doesn’t mean if you fail to witness to somebody when you have an opportunity that you’re automatically lost, because I would think everybody listening has either missed opportunities or messed up opportunities. Sometimes, we’ll try and witness and we stumble and we mess up, and we become frightened and whatever. But if that was the unpardonable sin, we’re all doomed. I’m just saying that we have a responsibility and some verses are, is it Ezekiel 33 Pastor Ross? Where it says watchman on the wall, we are all like watchmen on the wall, that we’re supposed to give a trumpet, a certain sound if we fail to warn people, that blood is on our hands.

Pastor Jëan Ross: that’s “Ezekiel, chapter 33, verse 8”.

Pastor Doug: But that’s not the unpardonable sin, I’ve done it, I think all of us have said “you know, I’d really wish I had said something to that person”. And so if you heard mention this in a sermon, it’s because I think a lot of people are in different about the responsibility to share the good news. And that, you know, someday I think in eternity we will see that not only people who are saved because of our witness, there maybe people we realize messed out because we were afraid or we were too selfish to share. But that’s certainly not the unpardonable sin.

David: So basically take every opportunity you have and if you miss an opportunity you won’t basically lose opportunity of going to heaven from that?

Pastor Doug: No, I just treat it like every other sin, I’d say “Lord forgive us and help us do better”.

David: Okay, okay. I do appreciate that, thank you very much both of you.

Pastor Doug: All right. Thank you very much David. By the way, I think off course Peter, that’s one thing that missed an opportunity to witness for Christ, Peter not only missed an opportunity, he said “I don’t even know who He is”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: And so, you know, Christ forgave him for that. So, he kind of did an industrial strength denial witnessing (laughs).

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Dale who is listening in Sacramento California, on KFIA. Dale welcome to the program.

Dale: Hello Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Evening, welcome.

Dale: Hi, good evening. My question is on “Revelation 20, 14”.

Pastor Doug: Revelation 20, 14.

Dale: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Would you like me to read that to the people?

Dale: Yes, please read it.

Pastor Doug: All right. It says “in death and hell we’re cast into the lake of fire” this is the second death. Is that the way you’re reading it in your Bible?

Dale: Well, two of my translations say “death in hell”, two say “death in Hades”.

Pastor Doug: And actually, probably even more accurate rendering in our language would be death in the grave.

Dale: Okay, death in the grave.

Pastor Doug: See death is an enemy that won’t happen again in heaven, and the grave which of course keeps people separated, is an enemy.

Dale: is Gehenna hebrew for hell?

Pastor Doug: Gehenna is a, Gehenna is a Greek word

Dale: Okay Gehenna’s a Greek word.

Pastor Doug: based on the valley of Hinnom, Sheol is the Hebrew word.

Dale: Sheol is for hell right?

Pastor Doug: Yes, well Sheol means “the grave” in Hebrew. And Gehenna was the city dump outside, there’s a valley called, “the valley of Hinnom”, outside Jerusalem. And the Greek way of saying it, was “Gehenna”. So it’s speaking about the city dump that was outside Jerusalem which was, you know, they considered it, it was always burning and fowl and they considered it the place of death and the lost.

Dale: Okay, so Sheol and Gehenna could be the same place?

Pastor Doug: Well they are. They’re both translated as hell in different places of the Bible.

Dale: Is the Lake of Fire hell?

Pastor Doug: Well the Lake of Fire, we often talk about it as hell fire. Let me just, let me try and clear up very quickly some misunderstandings about hell. There are four words that are used in the Bible that are translated to “hell”. We talk about the Old Testament, it’s Sheol and that means typically the grave. Then you’ve got in Greek, you’ve got Hades which comes Greek Mythology, it was a place of torment, where Pluto was the God of Hades, its mythology in Greek, but they also use it as the place of the dead. Then there was the place Gehenna and then you also had Tartarus, I think is used one time in the Bible. But typically they represent death and the grave. And so what he’s saying here in “Revelation chapter 20, verse 14”. Where it says death and hell were cast in the Lake of Fire. But it sound kind of odd that hell was cast into hell. So it’s really saying that everything going in the Lake of Fire is being exterminated. There will be no more death, no more graveyards, no more dying in the new Earth. It’s all being destroyed, those enemies are gone and maybe we could recommend for Dale that website that we’ve got, called “deathtruth.com”, I believe. Deathtruth a very popular website, it’s got all the words, their original meaning, answers to this questions and videos. Anybody listening, questions on…

Pastor Jëan Ross: The website is “deathtruth.com”, dealing with the subject of death and we also got a website that deals with the subject of hell. It’s called “helltruth.com”

Pastor Doug: That’s what I meant, I’m sorry.

Pastor Jëan Ross: is that the one you’re looking for?

Pastor Doug: (Laughs)

Pastor Jëan Ross: (laughing)

Pastor Doug: Well they’re related, you know, this of course talks about death and hell. But I think it’s specifically, Dale’s going to want to know about hell truth.

Pastor Jëan Ross: helltruth.com and that deals with this passage along with many others. Dealing with the subject of what happens to the wicked. Thank you for your call Dale. We have Mark who is listening in Nokesville, Tennessee. Mark, welcome to the program.

Mark: Yeah, when doing, like public evangelism or using a slogan on a bumper sticker, is it best to avoid the use of the word hell because the public normally thinks of it as eternal torment? Like your using a slogan that says “Holiness or hell?” or something like that.

Pastor Doug: You know, that’s a good question, a very good question. And the very fact you’re asking the question, I’m sensing you thought like I do. The word hell, which is a technical word, it’s in the Bible, it describes the punishment of the wicked and the grave. We’re just talking about it; we’ve got a website dedicated to it. Yet I’ve heard pastors use the word so that it almost sounds like it’s obscene or derogatory.

Mark: Yeah I don’t mean in a cursing form, I mean.

Pastor Doug: No, that’s what I was going to say, as long as a pastor is using it in a polite context of study, it’s a biblical word.

Mark: What about using it to preach? Like a bumper sticker saying holiness or hell or (inaudible)

Pastor Doug: I, you know, that’s where, I think, you start drifting into the greyer, you don’t want to be to derogatory because so many people use the word as an experlative in profanity.

Mark: Yeah I’m not, I wouldn’t.

Pastor Doug: You know there’s another word for donkey that’s in the Bible too, but you got to be careful how you say that in church.

Mark: Yeah, I’m not.

Pastor Doug: So I mean, it’s that’s kind of a thing that, you know, people often take these words and they miss use them and.

Mark: I’m not referring to a curse word, I’m referring to the concept that people, when people hear the word hell they about eternal torment not annihilation.

Pastor Doug: Right. Well, and, you know, that’s actually a different question, I just think of course whenever you use a word in public speaking it should be in a form of dignity to instruct. But it could give the wrong impression when it’s just a slogan on a bumper sticker because people typically think of it as a place of eternal torment. And in the Bible many times, hell simply means the grave. One example would be that passage where it says, “You will not leave his soul in hell” and it means in the grave speaking of Christ.

Pastor Jëan Ross: I think it’s also, like what you say, we don’t leave the wrong impression in the minds of the people, a misunderstanding of the subject of hell has led many to a misunderstanding of the character of God. There are people that make fun of religion and say “well, I can’t believe in a God that’s going to burn people, you know, with no end and you know, they have that understanding of hell. So if I were to use the word hell, I would want to make sure that it’s in the context where I can explain the biblical position of what hell is and what happens to the wicked.

Pastor Doug: Does that help a little bit Mark?

Mark: So it might be unwise to use it as a bumper sticker?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it could be because people, there’s a good chance that people will use it or apply it to traditional understanding. And so that could lead to misunderstanding. By the way you also enjoy the website, it doesn’t address that specific question but there’s a lot of information of what the Bible does say about hell, the lake of fire and the truth on that subject. Helltruth.com

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Sandy listening on WDQN in Illinois, Sandy welcome to the program.

Sandy: Good evening pastors, could you please explain “Job chapter 5, verse 23”?

Pastor Doug: We will do it, I’m just going there right now, maybe Pastor Ross is there and he can read it real quick.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It says “For you shall have a covenant with the stones of the field and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with you”

Pastor Doug: oh, that’s a good verse. One thing I think of is, in the beginning the animals where all friendly to Adam and Eve. It was only after sin that they became adversarial; it was only after sin that the very environment with thorn and thistle, you know, became difficult for people got hurt just walking across country. You can even look in “Daniel chapter 6" where when God’s angels where with Daniel, even the lions wouldn’t bother him. So I think Job was just saying that, you know, when you’re following the Lord, it seems like He’ll even make the field and the beast of the field be at peace with you.

Sandy: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: All right. Good question, appreciate that. I don’t think I’ve had that question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s an interesting question, yes, sort of in the context of poetry. And once again, as you said Pastor Doug, it’s really just a poetic figure of speech, to say that if you are following God, He will give you peace.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right, ready for our next caller. We’re going to go to…

Pastor Doug: One more thought on that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure.

Pastor Doug: I found that even with the Christians, it seems like animals sometimes sense, you know, dog sometimes sense if you’re mean or you’re afraid or. And you know, it’s seems like when you’re at peace with the Lord, animals are even, they sense that. just one more thought I thought was worth sharing but go ahead.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is calling from New Jersey, Clarrisod I guess is how the name is pronounced, forgive us if we are pronouncing it wrong, Clarrisod welcome to the program.

Clarisa: Hi thank you, “1st Corinthians chapter 14”, I believe verse 34 says “Women should remain silent in the churches; they are now allowed to speak but must be in submission as the law says” and then getting to verse 35, if I go to a church with a woman senior pastor, and her husband passed a few years ago and she kind of took over the reign and there’s two other pastors, that pastor but she’s still the senior pastor. Am I sinning?

Pastor Doug: Okay, two questions there, one question and I really need to separate them. In the Bible, keep in mind, Paul is saying here in “1st Corinthians chapter 14, verse 34”, he talks about women being basically submissive to their husbands in church, that wasn’t saying that they weren’t ever to speak and it wasn’t saying that women don’t have gifts of ministry or teaching, because you have women profits in the Bible. But he quotes, he says, “as sayeth the law”. Now there is a statement in the law that if a man made a vow, he was obliged to pay that vow he had to be very careful what he said. But if a man’s wife made a vow, the man actually have the right to say “you know, I don’t want to be obligated to that vow” or he could endorse her vow. So there was to be a respect for the headship of the husband in the family when they spoke in public. And, you know, some commentators think, Paul is alluding back to that, but this was not a universal across the board mandate, that women are never to otter a word in church.

Clarrisod: How about the (inaudible 21:00)?

Pastor Doug: Well if a church is led by the pastor, the pastor is to be the priest. He can delegate to any member of his church, their gifts of teaching. An example would be, when Priscilla and Aquila they were a husband and wife team, they work together in teaching Apollos, who became a great preacher and almost an apostle in his own right. So if, I believe that God designed that men should be the servant leaders in the families. They should be the priests of their families. The church is an extension of the family. The men should be the servant leaders in the church. And so if I invite anybody in the church who’s, you know, got a gift of teaching, I’d say “look, I’d like to have share”. They’re still doing it in submission to the authority of the pastor. Who should be a man, I believe. You see the difference? But what you’re describing is something different, you’re describing, I think, a woman who is serving in the capacity as the primary pastor in the church.

Clarrisod: Yeah, it bothers me, but the church is great. Now I’m going to decide in a few days whether I want to join it or not.

Pastor Doug: You know, I wouldn’t, I’m not even sure if I can answer you on that, I’d tell you to pray about it, you know, God may have placed you there. Some mountains are worth dying on and I’m not sure that’s the one, I don’t know Pastor Ross if you want to weigh in on this (laughs)

Pastor Jëan Ross: (laughing)

Pastor Doug: We’re heading on the curve,

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah. (Laughs)

Pastor Doug: (laughing)

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well you know, it is a challenge, that’s where somebody needs to pray about it again. I would just ones again reaffirm Pastor Doug’s position. It’s probably not a battle that’s worth dying for. There are, there is good God-fearing people in different positions of leadership and some are convicted on this particular point, most of perhaps, than others. God uses both men and women in ministry, reaching the souls of men and women. However what we need to do personally say is “How closely can I follow Bible? What principles are clear in the Bible?” and it is clear that God has placed that priestly role and responsibility, spiritual leadership on the shoulders of a man.

Pastor Doug: So, and by the way, we do have a book that we can send you and its “Women in Ministry”. It’s a book I wrote, because we got a lot of questions that, we’ll send you a free copy if you ask for it. “Women in Ministry” and there’s more information on that, there.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Again, the number to call is 1-800-835-6747 and the book “Women in Ministry” and it deals with the subject that we’ve been talking about.

Pastor Doug: Yes. Matter of fact, we don’t often announce this; we actually have a website on this subject. It’s called “thewomeninministrytrutt”, and no, yeah its “womeninministrytruth.com”, “womeninministrythruth.com”, a lot of people ask about this, and I think there’s a pretty good balanced view that is given there. So take a look and let us know.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Next caller is Monique and she’s listening in Brooklyn, New York, on WMCA. Monique welcome to the program.

Monique: Hi pastors.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Monique: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call, my question is what happen to the saints that rose with Christ when He was on resurrection morning? To said like to rose with him but the objects of His friends

Pastor Doug: I think we’re talking about “Matthew 28”, verse, was that 54 Pastor Ross? Or no maybe it’s 27

Monique: yeah, I was reading it last week, and I was wondering what happened to them after they appeared, do they have friends?

Pastor Doug: Well when Christ descended to heaven, the first time, and when I say the first time, is after Mary saw Him outside the tomb, he said “do not cling to me for I’ve not yet ascended to the father”, shortly after He spoke with her, He said “but I ascend to my God and to your God and to my Father and your Father”, I’m assuming that when Jesus ascended that entourage of people that rose, they only briefly appeared in Jerusalem because, you know, if they’d appear over 40 days, it would have been mentioned in Mark, Luke and John’s gospel. But only Matthew mentions it, and so I’m assuming they ascended to heaven with Christ’s first ascension. Is that what your understanding Pastor Ross? You’re looking for?

Pastor Jëan Ross: I’m looking for another verse that sort of confirms that idea where it refers to Christ’s ascension and speaks of Christ leading captive and giving gifts unto men. And that is also, as some describe, those who are resurrected they ascended up to heaven with Christ.

Pastor Doug: So, I don’t know if that helps answer your question Monique. There’s no specific verse that says “here’s the day and hour when He ascended”, but based on the context it appears when Jesus ascended first time, they went to heaven. Sort of like trophy of his resurrection that there will be a bouquet of people He takes with him.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The verse is “Ephesians chapter 4, verse 8”, where it refers to Christ’s ascension and says, “He led captivity captive and give gifts unto men”.

Pastor Doug: So, does that help a little bit Monique?

Monique: It does help but are they in heaven, are they able to see what’s going on? Or they’re just like, in spirit?

Pastor Doug: Well I think that they went to heaven with their glorified bodies, I don’t know if they’re looking over the balcony right now and watching, there’s probably so many things to do, but, you know, even Moses and Elijah, we know that they appeared to Christ and they were aware of what’s happening here on Earth. So, they could be I suppose, watching what’s going on.

Thank you for your question and she would also, maybe interested in that website, “deathtruth.com” talks about the state of the dead, what they know, what they don’t know. Deathtruth.com, Monique. Do we have time for another question?

Pastor Jëan Ross: We can try, we’ve got Markus who is listening from Tennessee, Markus welcome to the program.

Markus: Hi

Pastor Doug: We’ve got a couple of minutes before the break Markus. Can we do a quick question for you?

Markus: Well, it’s a little bit long but

Pastor Doug: Well let’s start on it, maybe we can come back to you.

Markus: The Bible talks about the beast, the mark of the beast, but what about the image to the beast?

Pastor Doug: That’s a good question; first of all, one of the principle things, God said that the people should not do when it comes to worship is “do not make an image”. In “Daniel 2”, it talks about this “great image that represents the false religions of the world”. And so idolatry, you know, it’s considered a sin; it’s one of the Ten Commandments that people don’t get involved in that. But in the last days in particular when it talks about an image of the beast, it doesn’t mean they’re making a great statue, like Nebuchadnezzar did in “Daniel chapter 3”. It’s talking about making a likeness, Cain it says is born in the image of his father Adam, man is made in the image of God, this 2nd beast creates another political institution in the likeness of the 1st beast. These beasts are not monster creatures; these beasts in Revelation are speaking of political, religious institutions that persecute. Now we got a lesson on this one Markus that really is probably the complete answer. The lesson is dealing with the beast of Revelation.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s the “USA in Bible Prophecy”, it’s a study guide, if you call our resource line, we’d be happy to send that out to you.

Pastor Doug: Well that ought to get their attention, “USA Bible Prophecy” and it has something to do with the beast. So friends, anybody listening, did you hear that? You want to know about the US in Bible prophecy, especially in our day and age, you owe yourself that lesson. Just call and we’ll send it to you. We’re not going away, we’re just going to catch our breath here, take a break, get a drink of water, we’ll be right back with questions.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: Sometimes I’m sitting in my car and I’m scanning through the stations that I hear program and I go “what is this program?” Some of you may have joined us and you’re thinking the same thing right now. This is Bible Answers Live and it is a live interactive Bible study. You can call in with your Bible questions and we’ll do our best to answer them. We’ve got a number of Bible versions, opened on our laptop computers and we’ll try and find these spiritual answers to your biblical questions. If you have a question, we have a couple of lines open. It’s 1-800-463-7297 and I am Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, well it’s been almost 6 months now, not quite, maybe 4, 4 and a half. You and I were both in Michigan and we did a series, a ten part series geared towards teenagers, called “MIQ Teens”. And we’re just talking during the break about the website, the MIQ Teens website that’s filled with great resources.

Pastor Doug: MIQ stands for “Most Important Questions”. A lot of teenagers have questions about Christianity and the Bible and how do they apply it in this modern age we’re living in. And so we did a special program in front of a group of several hundred very live students. Teenagers were asking questions and a little interaction. You’ll really enjoy it friends. You can either listen to the audio or watch the programs order the entire series. There’s a study book, you might want to use in your youth group with your church. It’s called MIQ, Most Important Questions and the website address Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s “miqteens.com”.

Pastor Doug: miqteens.com

Pastor Jëan Ross: all right, going to the phone line. We have Daniel, who is listening from New York, New York. Daniel welcome to the program.

Daniel: Yes, how you doing? Thank you for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: Hi, are you in Manhattan?

Daniel: Manhattan, yes.

Pastor Doug: Okay, my old home town.

Daniel: Okay. My question is. I was told by the travel witnesses that Jesus and Michael the archangel are the same.

Pastor Doug: Do you have your radio on, on the background Daniel. You might want to turn that down because you’re going to hear a delay and…

Daniel: Okay, I turned it off.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, thank you, I know, it can actually create feedback because the sound starts to loop around. Well, you know, regardless of who believes it, the Bible commentator, Matthew Henry and addressing the subject on who is this mysterious individual that appears mostly in the Old Testament, ones or twice in the new, called Michael. He says this is Jesus, and I’m inclined to agree. Now let me give you reasons; before Christ became a man, they call this, I think, Christophanies, when Jesus appears on the Old Testament before He was incarnate. He often appeared, He appeared to Abraham, He appeared to Joshua and He appears as the commander of God’s army. He’s called the Lord of hosts. The name “Michael” means “who is as God”. And if you look at some of the clues, for instance it says in “1st Thessalonians 4”, I think its verse 16. The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout in the voice of the Archangel. The Lord, with the voice of the greatest messenger, “archangel” means “greatest messenger”. The name Michael who is as God. Then it says that, in the book of Jude that the devil when disputing over the body of Moses got to an argument with this Michael. And Michael says “the Lord rebukes thee”. So here we got Michael coming to resurrect, which also happen in “1st Thessalonians 4”. And then in “Daniel chapter 12, verse 1”; it says “there is a time of trouble such as there never was at that time Michael stands up, the great prince that stands for the children of thy people”. Christ is that Prince of princes that stands in our behalf or as advocate. So you just start looking at the definitions of Michael and they all line up with the character of Christ. And of course Joshua, when he worships this angel of the Lord. And I think its Joshua chapter 1 Pastor Ross. He’s told to take the shoes off his feet because he’s on Holy ground. Well, you’re not supposed to pray to angels, Revelation tells us. The word “angel” means messenger, Jesus is not a cherub, Jesus is not a seraphim, Jesus is not an angel, in that sense, Jesus is the “greatest messenger”. Now we have a book on that, and its title’s very easy to remember. Who is Michael the archangel? Daniel, would you like us to send that to you?

Daniel: Okay, in “Daniel 10, 13”, Michael is called one of the foremost priests, one of, indicating that there are others like him. And also in Jude…

Pastor Doug: Alright, let’s take it one at a time,

Daniel: It says also in Jude, he said that,

Pastor Doug: Daniel?

Daniel: (inaudible)

Pastor Doug: But Daniel, hang on one second, let’s start with the verse in Daniel chapter 10, where it talks about “Michael being one of”, the word there can also be translated first of or highest of, now go to Jude real quick. When he says “the Lord rebuke thee”. Even Jesus referred to God the Father as His Father when He was here on Earth. So, for Christ to say that you rebuked by the Lord, is not out of character. He does that other times in the Bible. But hopefully, that helps you a little bit. And I hope you’ll ask for this book, called “Who is Michael the Archangel?”

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call is 1-800-835-6747, and again the book “Who is

Michael the Archangel?” Now, of course Pastor Doug, just to follow up on that, sometimes the word “archangel” can be a little deceiving to some. We’re not saying that Jesus by any means is an angel. Nor are we saying He’s a created being. The word “archangel” means ruler of or one above; just as an arch is something above, something else, He is the commander of the heavenly ghost. We’re not saying Michael or Jesus is an angel.

Pastor Doug: Yeah and, you know, one other thing popped into my mind, I when it’s first, it says the angel of the Lord appeared to the parents of, I believe it was Samson, Noah and his wife, they asked about his name and he said “it is wonderful”. Well, of course it says about Christ. He’s name is wonderful, counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father. So, don’t be thrown be thrown by this friends, that’s another mountain I wouldn’t die on, but if you want to know what we think the commentators believe. Many of them believe that, that was the one of the Christophanies of Jesus.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Again the number is 1-800-835-6747, and the book entitled “Who is Michael?” Our next caller is Sheila, and let’s see, she is listening from New Jersey, listening on WMCA. Sheila welcome to the program.

Sheila: Hi

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Sheila: You got my question?

Pastor Doug: well, I think you may have given something to the operators, you have a question on Revelations 12:1.

Sheila: Yeah, “Revelations chapter 12, verse 1”.

Pastor Doug: All right, Pastor Ross you’re going to read that?

Sheila: Who does speaking about?

Pastor Jëan Ross: All right. Let me read the verse. “Now, a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and on her head a garland of 12 starts.”

Pastor Doug: Now this woman is a symbol for God’s church. The Bible tells us that, a woman is often symbolized in Bible prophecy with the imagery of a church. You have the example also where the apostle John, when he’s writing his letter, I believe it’s in the second letter of John. He says “I’m writing from your elect sister to the beloved woman” it is like he’s writing from one church to another; he uses the terminology of a woman. When Paul says husbands love your wives, even as Christ loves the church. And the church is called “the bride of Christ”. This woman wearing the sun, that’s light. And the moon, that’s light. And the stars, that’s light. These are the lights that God made, this is God light. And so we are told the church is the light of the world. And some have said that “the sun represents the light of the New Testament”. The moon represents the light of the Old Testament that the church stands upon. And then you’ve got the 12 stars, like the 12 apostles, above the head means leadership and so this woman is a type of the church. Sheila, does this help a little bit?

Sheila: You say, “That represent that church”. What happened is I was reading and look at the verse in “Genesis chapter 37 verse 9”.

Pastor Doug: We’re going from revelation to Genesis 37 verse 9.

Sheila: Yes.

Pastor Doug: All right, and would you like us to read that?

Sheila: Yes, thanks.

Pastor Doug: “He dreamed a dream, he told his brother, and behold I’ve dreamed a dream and behold the sun and the moon and 11 starts made of obeisance to me”. Well, are you wondering how do you connect these 2 passages?

Sheila: No, what happened is that is the only scripture I see, where

Pastor Doug: the cross reference

Sheila: that have the reference of the moon and the star. I mean Joseph dreamed that dream as I was reading the story, the only place it mentioned the moon, the star, and the 11 stars.

Pastor Doug: and the sun?

Sheila: and the 11 stars, now that was referring to “Jacob 12 sons” because

Pastor Doug: Joseph would have been. Yeah.

Sheila: Joseph was going to be in Egypt. Let me tell you what it is, so you’ll explain it to me. Joseph was going to be in Egypt when the brothers and all of them went and bow to him. And what we see in there is the symbol representing Israel which is the children of Israel. So, you know the scripture says “search the scriptures”, that’s the only scriptures I find mentioning about the moon and the stars.

Pastor Doug: well there is one other scripture.

Sheila: and so, one minute. So what happened is, as far as I see there now is that, is the same thing in Revelation 12. So that’s representing Israel, not the church.

Pastor Doug: well for one thing, Israel is the church. In other words, in the Bible, every believer becomes part of spiritual Israel, and in the same way that Jacob and his wife, who would have been Leah and the sons of Jacob represented spiritual Israel or literal Israel in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, you’ve got the 12 apostles, you’ve got the, Christ and you’ve got the church.

Pastor Jëan Ross: and if you look at this verse in particular, it leans more so to the Israel side, if you like. The Old Testament side, then it does to the New Testament side, because if you read on, it speaks about “this woman gives birth to a male child who is caught up to God and to his throne that of course is reference to Christ”. So, in verse 1, it’s describing the church, just prior to the birth of Christ, and in

Pastor Doug: In the Old Testament.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The Old Testament, and then it goes on to talk, “how that the woman was given 2 wings of a great eagle and she was taken to the wilderness”. That would represent, then of course, “The New Testament church”.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, the church went underground, went through a great persecution. Now we’ve got a lesson Sheila, you want to ask for this, that’s got that woman on the cover, and it’s called, “The

Pastor Jëan Ross: “The Bride of Christ”

Pastor Doug: “The Bride of Christ”. And I think you’ll appreciate, that’s got a lot of scripture, this quote, lesson is right up your alley for your study. Please send, it’s free! Send for the lesson, we’ll send it to you or anyone who asks for it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. And again, the lesson is entitled, “The Bride of Christ”. We’re going to go to Peter who is listening in, looks like he’s in Queens New York, listening on WMCA. Peter welcome to the program.

Peter: Thank you, praise to the Lord. I want to ask about a serious question that people have been debating about recently. (Inaudible 42:38 - 42:41) You know when I mention the verse but I’m not sure of the exact (inaudible) of it. Chapter 5, the last verse of chapter 5 “for the wage sin is death”. That chapter 5, the last verse? Or 6

Pastor Doug: No, I think that’s chapter 6.

Peter: All right.

Pastor Doug: Talks about the wages of sin being death, but, and your question about it?

Peter: Well some people think if you just die that’s that and others believe, you know, it doesn’t have nothing to do with this until you die, you don’t pay for your sins or like Hitler get away with murder or cold blooded murderer killing people at night and rubbing their money and, you know, shooting them in the back of the head and never got caught. I mean, I don’t think it’s just, the wages of sin is death but it must be more than just dead, you know.

Pastor Doug: Well there is punishment, Jesus says that “every man is rewarded to his works” and the verse in Romans 6:23, it says, you are right, it’s the last verse, but it’s in chapter 6. The verse in Romans 6:23 is basically saying first and foremost penalty for sin is death, but Christ says when He comes, “everyone is rewarded according to what he deserves” there is a lake of fire and the wicked are going to all be punished according to what they deserve in that lake of fire.

Peter: But how do we answer up to that when they just refer to that one verse? How do we answer up to that? In definition of it? (inaudible)

Pastor Doug: So that they know that the penalty of our sin is more than just death?

Peter: Right.

Pastor Doug: I would explain that Christ took the penalty; Jesus did not just die on the cross. He suffered and died. And so He took not only our death, you know you can close your eyes and die, but He took more than that. He took our suffering according to all of our sins and our death. And Jesus suffered, you know, only as God could suffer because He suffered for the sins of whole world. We can’t even comprehend that. And his separation of the Father was adequate for that and yes, so there’s more than just the death aspect of the penalty.

Peter: (inaudible) stick on that one verse, you know. The spiritual adapt too, right?

Pastor Doug: Well, yeah, people die spiritually as soon as they sin like Adam and Eve.

Pastor Jëan Ross: In “Luke chapter 12, verse 47”; Jesus telling a parable says “the servant that knew his masses well and did not prepare himself and do according to it will be beaten with many strips, whereas the servant that did not know his masses well, will be beaten a few strips” so they are degrees with reference to the punishment of the wicked.

Pastor Doug: So, again that website helltruth, it does talk about the judgement and the punishment. Peter might enjoy that. I know it sounds strange; you might enjoy the website on hell. But it is a good study friends, you ought to take a look at it, helltruth.com. Helltruth.com and that explains that subject pretty well.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Wilbert, who is listening from Bismarck, North Dakota. Wilbert, welcome to the program.

Wilbert: Thank you, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Hi Wilbert, welcome.

Wilbert: what’s so special about Christ’s blood that Satan was afraid of it?

Pastor Doug: Well, the Bible tells us that “without the shedding of the blood, there is no remission or forgiveness of sin”. And so when we claimed the merits of Jesus’ innocent life, the Bible says “the life is in the blood” and I believe that’s in “Genesis and Leviticus”. The life is in the blood and of course the scientific fact that every cell in our body is both fed and nourished and oxygenated by the blood. And if you don’t have blood going into every cell, it dies. And so the life is in the blood and the blood of Christ, symbolizes, it’s like a spiritual transfusion for anybody who has been affected by sin. Well the devil was threatened by that sacrifice. So the word blood is sort of used in a symbolic sense we’re not, you know, Christians aren’t supposed to really be visualizing that we take this blood and smear it on ourselves. But it’s a symbol of the life of Christ when He poured out His blood. You know, there’s one other interesting analogy to this Wilbert, is the first miracle of Christ. Whereas, He took water and turned it into wine or pure grape juice actually. The last thing that happened when Christ was on the cross, He said “I thirst” and they gave Him, sour wine. So it’s like He traded us the pure and He took our sour or bitter. And He gave a blood transfusion to the human race, you might say.

Wilbert: Any other special characteristics about His blood?

Pastor Doug: Well, we don’t know what His blood type was. I’m not sure what you’re asking.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Although, I think the main point throughout scripture, the emphasis on the blood, is that it symbolizes the life, and Christ gave His life in atoning sacrifice for sin. You also have the story Pastor Doug, during the time of the Passover, when the children of Israel were in Egypt. They were to take the blood of the lamb and sprinkle it on the door post, if though, inside of the house that was covered with the blood, they were safe.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Of course that’s where the symbol of us needing to be in Christ, receiving His atoning sacrifice

Pastor Doug: Good point.

Pastor Jëan Ross: in order to be safe.

Pastor Doug: That’s where you get the word, “Passover”, that angel of judgement, passed over when he saw the blood. And so when we’re under the blood of Christ, it means that, “We are forgiven, we’re under that manner”. But hope that helps a little bit, and we go a long time talking about the blood of Christ.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We can. We’ve got Roger, who is listening on the internet from Arkansas. Roger, welcome to the program.

Roger: Hello!

Pastor Doug: Evening roger.

Roger: Hey!

Pastor Doug: Your question?

Roger: My question is, (inaudible 48:23) 3, 10, of the day of the Lord. I’m not referring to secret (inaudible 48:26), but what I want to know is about, the Lord coming as (inaudible 48:30) passed away, the elements melt with fervent heat , everything’s burned up. My question is, is this referring to the 2nd coming, or a post millennial event, because I understand that the 2nd coming, “the Lord destroys the unrighteous with His brightness after He comes back from the millennial reign, then the unrighteous (inaudible 48:49) after the 2nd resurrection, and everything’s burned up after the assault on the New Jerusalem”. This verse has a little bit of both events in it, and I’m trying to sort out which 1 is it.

Pastor Doug: Well I think you’re on the right track. 1st of all, for everyone listening, when the day the Lord comes as a thief, now that’s the next time, this one, it’s a surprise, like as a thief, right?

Roger: Yes sir.

Pastor Doug: Alright. So when the day of the Lord comes as a thief, there will be fire then too, but it begins then, you can say, “The punishment of the wicked starts then”, but it doesn’t really finish till the end of the 1 thousand years, when the elements are going to be totally consumed.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, I think the primary focus though, of this passage, even though, it could also elude to the, what we call “the 3rd coming at the end of the thousand years”, but I think the prime focus of this passage is on the 2nd coming of Jesus, and specifically in “verse 12”, where it says, “Looking for, and hastening the coming of the day of God”. That would really refer to the 2nd coming of Jesus. Then he goes on to say, “Because of which, the heavens will be dissolved, be on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat”. So he’s likening to the element melting with fervent heat and the heavens being on fire, he’s connecting it with the 2nd coming of Christ. We also know, that according to “Thessalonians, 2nd Thessalonians, 1st Thessalonians as well”, “the wicked are destroyed with the brightness of Christ coming”. So there is the idea of fire, associated with the coming of Christ.

Pastor Doug: It tells us, “that the presence of the Lord is like a

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: consuming fire”. And a lot of verses, even “Jeremiah 4”, talks about that, “Verse 23 to, I think its 25?” But hey, hope that helps. Good question Roger. And we can probably still get a few more questions in here Pastor Ross.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Steve, who is listening in New York. Steve, welcome to the program.

Steve: Thank you, good evening.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Steve: My question is on the matter of “the impeccability of Christ”. Was Christ unable to sin, or was Christ able not to sin, because both views are taught out there, my church, they teach that He was not able to sin (inaudible)

Pastor Doug: Well let’s talk about this.

Steve: Adam, I believe, Adam did not have a sin nature until after he transgressed the law, as many teach. God created him, he had a sinful nature, a (inaudible 51:07) nature from the very beginning, and I don’t believe that because he was, he and Eve were band from the tree of life after sinning

Pastor Doug: Right.

Steve: And so, was God did not have any objection, him eating from that tree, until after his state changed and God did not want him and Eve to live on eternally, in that corrupt, sinful state.

Pastor Doug: Alright, do you want us to take a stab at answering that?

Steve: Sure.

Pastor Doug: Okay. You’re asking now, did Jesus, was there a possibility of Christ sinning? 1st of all, I think we all agree, Jesus was tempted, the Bible says, “He was tempted”, and then if you look in “Hebrews 4, 15”, it tells us, “For we don’t have a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities but he was, in all points tempted, like as we are yet, without sin”. So He was tempted, the way we’re tempted, and He gave us an example on how to overcome. If temptation had absolutely no, if it was no temptation for Him, then you can’t call it temptation.

Pastor Jëan Ross: If there was never a chance of Him heading to the temptation, why did the devil try so hard to temp Him?

Pastor Doug: That’s a good point too. It would have been a losing battle from the start. But Christ took on human nature and, you know, while He had never sinned, and there was definitely something different about Jesus, and that everyone sinned except Him. Yeah, He was, you know, He was a hundred percent human, and a hundred percent God, it’s something of a mystery there. But I just take the word for what it says Steve, it says, “He was tempted in all points like we are, yet without sin”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Jesus also referred to, by Paul as being the “2nd Adam”, and just like the 1st Adam could be tempted, was tempted, and did sin

Pastor Doug: Did sin, yup.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Christ was tempted but He did not sin. So He overcame where Satan had, I mean, where Adam had fallen.

Pastor Doug: It’s interesting also. Adam, he fell in a garden, Jesus overcame in a desert.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right (laughing).

Pastor Doug: So.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And Christ was also tempted in the garden, just prior to His betrayal and crucifixion.

Pastor Doug: That’s right, good point. So hopefully that helps a little bit Steve, I don’t think we’re the final word on that very big question but there’s a few verses on that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Debby.

Pasto Doug: Pardon me one second.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes?

Pastor Doug: We have a book that was written by Joe Cruz probably, I think it’s something we can send Steve, and it talks about “Christ nature”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Is it the “Human Nature of Christ”? Is that what it was called?

Pasto Doug: Christ human nature. And I think that, that’s a book by Joe Cruz, that will shed some more light on that subject, we’ll send you a free copy Steve, “Christ Human Nature”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747, you can ask for the book on the human nature of Christ, and we’ll be happy to send that to you. We’ve got Debby, who is listening in Michigan, listening on WMUZ.

Debby: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Debby, welcome to the program.

Debby: Thank you very much

Pastor Doug: Hi.

Debby: Thanks for taking my call. My question is, I believe there’s this 2 creatures, and they’re refers, mentioned in Ezekiel, also in Revelation, they stand at the throne of God, or I don’t know if it’s the throne of Jesus, or the Father, but they’re described as, they have wings, and they have, like 4 faces of different animals. One is a bear.

Pasto Doug: “Ezekiel 1, verse 5”, it talks about, “Out of the midst thereof, came the likeness of 4 living creatures and this were their appearance”. Know, you can read about this, not only in “Ezekiel 1, 5”, it’s in “Revelation 4, 6”.

Debby: Okay.

Pastor Doug: And it tells us, “These 4 creatures, one is like a calf”, and you can also read this in “Revelation 4, 7”, “One like a lion, one like a calf, one like a man, and the 4th like an eagle”. And it’s been believed, that these creatures represent, sort of “the 4 characteristics of how God preaches the gospel to His people, through”, you know, you can look at, some have compared it to the “massages of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John”, they give different perspectives on the character of God.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, if you also look at this, you could also see descriptions, if you like, of “The pan redemption”, the lion representing royalty, to represent Christ prior to the incarnation. You have a calf, which was an animal of burden, it was an animal of sacrifice, Jesus took upon Himself, human nature, died our sacrifice, and in yet, the man, Jesus is our advocate, our intersecting our heavenly sanctioned ministry as our priest. And the 4th, like a flying eagle, eagle in scripture is often associated with judgement, we know that when Jesus comes again, He comes as King of kings, and Lord of lord to execute judgement”. So the 4 beast can also represent, “4 phases of Christ ministry”.

Pastor Doug: That’s good. And yeah, I’ve also heard, the eagle represent, “The vision of the eagle”, because they see so much, and Christ, you know, His omniscience and, yeah, that’s exactly right, this gives us those different dimensions of God’s character. You know, I think, I hope that helps a little bit Debby. I don’t know that we have any booklet on “The 4 creatures”? but that really represents “the ministry, the aspects of Jesus”, it’s all telling us something about Jesus. I hear the music squeaking in. Hey friends, wait, don’t reach for that dial just yet. Have you noticed for the last hour? We’ve been doing our best to answer as many Bible questions as possible, and we’ve given away a lot of free material. We do this by faith, and week to week, believing that people out there like you, are going to say, “Hey, that’s a great program; I want to keep it on the air”. Amazing Facts, we’re not supported by any denomination or corporation, we are a hundred percent supported by listeners. If you thought before, about helping us stay on the air, we hope you’ll do more and think about it. We’d love to hear from you, and if you’ve been blessed, then go to the website, it’s very simple, it’s “Amazingfacts.org”, type in “Amazingfacts.com.tv.org”, click where it says, “donate”, and help us stay on the air. Most of all, we do this to keep you close to Jesus, so you’ll know Him as the truth that sets you free.

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