One of God's Greatest

Lesson: 1
Blameless and perfect, righteous and beautiful, one of God's greatest... until iniquity was found. Does that mean that God knowingly created evil when He created Lucifer ? Was Lucifer a mistake ? In this episode of Bible Answers Live learn more about humanity's greatest enemy, about overcoming his temptations, about the creation and separation of light in Heaven, and about the Greatest and first focus you need to have : Christ and His powerful, real, living Love for you.

Heaven: Is It For Real?

Heaven: Is It For Real?
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- [Announcer] It is the best selling book in history. No volume ever written has been more loved and quoted, and its words, sometimes simple and sometimes mysterious, should always be studied carefully. It is the Bible, the Word of God. Welcome to "Bible Answers Live," providing accurate and practical answers to all your Bible questions. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this broadcast, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now here's your host from Amazing Facts International, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

- Hello listening friends. Would you like to hear an amazing fact? Authorities in Sri Lanka say the world's largest star sapphire cluster has been found in a backyard by accident. A gem trader said the stone was found by workman digging a well behind his home in the gem-rich Ratnapura area. The cluster weighs around 1,124 pounds or 2.5 million carats, and has been named the Serendipity Sapphire. Experts say the stone, which is pale blue in color, has an estimated value of up to 100 million in the international market. Mr. Gamage, the owner of the stone, said, "The person who was digging the well "alerted us about some rare stones. "Later we stumbled upon this huge specimen." He didn't want to give us his full name or location for obvious security reasons. Along with diamonds, rubies and emeralds, sapphires are considered among the most valuable gems. The huge stone is believed to be the largest sapphire cluster in the world. You know, Pastor Ross, sapphires are mentioned more than any other precious gem in the Bible.

- Yes, Pastor Doug, it's amazing when you think about it. I mean, you've got the Bible speaking of sapphires in the second book of the Bible, Exodus, and then you find the last book of the Bible, the Book of Revelation, again mentions sapphire. And I understand that they're one of four of the most precious stones on Earth, but also four precious stones spoken of in the Bible.

- That's right, yeah. And it's mentioned several times, Ezekiel. In fact, well, let's give folks a few samples. It's a Bible answer program, let's use some Bible here. Exodus 24:10. It says: When this is not long after the 10 Commandments were given and the people drew near the Mountain of God and they saw the God of Israel and there was under His feet, as it were, a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. You know what it's like? Sapphire's a blue sparkling, kind of a heavenly color. And on the High Priest, he used to wear an ephod. And on the ephod or the breast plate, there were 12 stones and every stone was different, and one of those stones is a sapphire. Which is interesting because the Bible also tells us that Satan, before he was Satan he was Lucifer, one of God's great angels, and it tells us that he had many of the same stones as the High Priest, these beautiful gems that he wore, sapphire is mentioned. But then when you get to Revelation and it talks about the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem, says there are 12 foundations and each foundation is a precious stone. And of course among them is a sapphire stone. And some people think, "Well, how can that be real? "Gates of pearl, "12 glorious gem foundation stones." It is real. It's very real. And God has prepared a city. Those things don't wear away. The pyramids are still here today because they're made of mineral. God is going to make the new Jerusalem out of minerals that will last forever. And if anyone's wondering about that place called Heaven, we've got a book that I think will encourage you. It's got a lot of scripture in it. Tell you not only that Heaven is real, but how you can be there.

- We have a book, it's called, "Heaven: Is It For Real?" And this is a free offer. We'll be happy to send this to anyone who calls and asks. The number call is 800-835-6747 and you can just simply ask for the book. It's called, "Heaven: Is It For Real?" We'll be happy to send that to anyone here in North America. If you're outside of North America, folks can just go to the Amazing Facts website and you'll be able to read the book there online. "Heaven: Is It For Real?" You know, Pastor Doug, sometimes people, they read the Bible's description of Heaven and then they try and calculate what Heaven would be like based on human terms or worldly terms, and it just seems so spectacular it's beyond belief. But what we need to recognize is that what the Bible tells us that we can't even begin to imagine the things that God has prepared for those that love Him.

- Absolutely.

- All right, well before we get to the program this evening, as we always do, we like to start with prayer.

- [Doug] Yes.

- So let's do that. Dear Father, we thank You once again for this opportunity to open up Your Word, the Bible, and study together. And Father, we ask Your blessing upon this program. Be with the people who are listening wherever they are, across this country and even in other places around the world. Father, we know the greatest and most important thing for us to do is to come to a saving knowledge of You through Your Word. So bless our time today. For we ask this in Jesus' name, amen.

- Amen.

- Well, Pastor Doug, we do have phone lines that are open and if you have a Bible related question, the number to call is 800-463-7297. If you don't get in right away, just stay on hold and one of our call screeners will be happy to take your call. We have our first caller for this evening. We have Somme who's listening from Massachusetts. Somme, welcome to the program.

- [Somme] Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a question about the four angels that surround the throne of God.

- [Doug] Mm-hmm.

- [Somme] And first of all, I wondered if they, if Lucifer used to be one of them. And secondly, why do they cry out, "Holy, holy, holy?" I know that it appeared in Isaiah 6 and also Revelation 4.

- [Doug] Right.

- [Somme] I just want to know your thoughts about these two things.

- Okay. You're right. There's only two places in the Bible where it says, "Holy, holy, holy," three times, and you've mentioned there Isaiah 6 and in Revelation 4. There's a little difference in the vision. In Isaiah 6 it says there's two Seraphim by the throne. That sounds more in keeping with the two Cherubim by the throne or the mercy seat in the Ark of the Covenant and in the Jewish temple. But when we get to Revelation, it talks about the four creatures around God's throne. I think there's more symbolism being used there. You ask now, "Was Lucifer one of them?" I think Lucifer was one of the two covering Cherubs by the throne of God because it says, now is it Isaiah or Ezekiel, it says, "Thou art the anointed Cherub that covereth." And either Isaiah 14 or Ezekiel 28 says that. And there's two big passages on Lucifer in those sections of the Bible. But in regard to your other question, "What's the meaning of the four "and why does it say, 'Holy, holy, holy?'" Well some have said that in Hebrew, when you want to say something's great, you repeat it. If you say someone's handsome, you say, "He is handsome, handsome." If you really, really, really wanted to emphasize something, you'd never go beyond three. You'd say, "They're handsome, handsome, handsome. "Strong, strong, strong." When it says that, "God is holy, holy, holy," that means He is perfectly, the perfect definition of holiness in Hebrew. They would emphasize things by repeating it. That's why Jesus sometimes said, "Verily, verily, I say to you." He said, "You better pay attention. Sit up. "This is going to be very important." That passage?

- Yes, I was actually going to mention before we get to that, we have a whole study guide, Pastor Doug, talking about the Devil.

- Yeah.

- It's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" And it deals with those passages in Isaiah that describes Lucifer before the fall and there it refers to him as a covering Cherub. And there's a lot of other bible verses that you can find. So if you'd like to receive that study guide, the number to call is 800-835-6747, and just ask for the Amazing Fact study guide. It's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" It's got all the Bible verses there. And then one additional thought, Pastor Doug, about the four living creatures. It's interesting when you look at the description in Revelation 4, it says that they had six wings and their constant cries, "Holy, holy, holy." The first is a face like unto a lion, the second like unto a calf, the third like to a man, the fourth like unto a flying eagle. And when you look at the description that we find, it kind of helps direct us or help us understand the ministry of Christ. He's the lion, He's the King, He's the one who came to bear our sins, He's our High Priest in Heaven, He's coming as an eagle, as King of kings and Lord of lords. So some interesting parallels that we see there in Revelation 4. Thank you for your call. Our next caller that we have is Jeff and he is listening in Montana. Jeff, welcome to the program.

- [Jeff] Good evening.

- Evening.

- [Jeff] I wanted to know is there any connection or significance between the annual tribute that Solomon received in 1 Kings 10:14 of 666 talents of gold and the number of the beast in Revelation?

- You know, that's a great question. I've wondered that before. I think there's two places in the Bible you find that number. One of them is that it tells us in 1 Kings that there came to Solomon in one year, 666 talents of gold. The thing that strikes me about the mention of that number is with the reign of David, the kingdom was just doing great. Israel had conquered all of their enemies, David subdued all the surrounding nations, and you could go through and name every one of them. He subdued them, they were paying tribute. Then Solomon becomes King and everything goes from good to better. He's a godly King. He loves the Lord. All nations are coming to Israel, like the Queen of Sheba, to find out about God. They build the temple of the Lord. Solomon builds this incredible palace. His reputation for wisdom is going around the world. And then it says in one year, 666 talents came to Israel. And the next chapter says: But Solomon loved many women. And from there the kingdom goes down. So it's like the mention of this number happens and it shifts from God to man, just like man was made on the sixth day. And so 666 is like the number four. It's the number of a man and it's talking about manmade worship. From that point on, the kingdom just goes downhill. So I thought that's an interesting, it's like they turned around a pole and ran the other direction when they got to 666. So that's all that I've come up with on that. Jeff, does that make any sense?

- [Jeff] Yes, it does. Yeah. Especially when you talk about the very next chapter.

- Yeah. Everything turned south right after the mention of 666. It's amazing. So hey, thank you so much. That's a good point.

- Okay, our next caller that we have is Kathleen listening from Arizona. Kathleen, welcome to the program.

- [Kathleen] Hi. Thank you. Hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross. My question is regarding Galatians 6. In verse two it says: Bear you one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. But then you go down to verse five and it says: For every man shall bear his own burden. So it seems to me like it's a contradiction.

- Yeah, well, I think what Paul is saying is that when we love our brother, it's like Jesus says it and Paul says it in another place, that all of commandment is summed up in this: To love your neighbor as yourself. Paul is simply saying that when you really love your neighbor, you're fulfilling the 10 Commandments, at least the commandments that deal with your love for your fellow man. But when he says, "Every man will bear his burden," it means that we will all answer to God for our life. And everyone does have a cross to bear. So he's really using the term I think in two different ways there.

- [Kathleen] Okay.

- You know Jesus said, "Come after me. Take up your cross." We bear the cross after Christ.

- And I think you'd also add to that a little bit. Everybody has a burden to bear and that's the point that Paul is emphasizing. We all have burdens to bear, therefore, let's help one another. We can bear one another's burden because everyone has their own burden that they have to bear.

- [Kathleen] True, True. Okay, thank you very much.

- All right, thanks so much.

- Okay, next caller that we have is Damon listening from Oklahoma City. Damon, welcome to the program.

- [Damon] Thank you. How you guys doing?

- We're doing a lot better than we deserve. How are you doing?

- [Damon] I'm doing pretty good.

- And your question tonight?

- [Damon] Yeah, my question was over Isaiah 45:7. I've seen some atheists try to use this. In some bibles it says God created light and darkness and it says in some Bibles it says God created good and evil. And I've seen some atheists try to use that and say, "See there, God created evil." So I was just wanting to know how do you guys actually break down that verse? Or does it supposed to say evil there or not?

- Yeah, the word when he says this in that passage there in Isaiah.

- Isaiah 45:7 is the verse.

- Yeah. He's not saying that God creates evil. The word there is really that He sends judgment. And it is true that God will send judgment. So it's talking about when he says, "Evil," you read there the context Isaiah's talking about disasters that were going to come upon God's people because they turned away from God. And He was going to allow that. And so in that sense you might say, "Well, people would think a disaster is evil." But when people turn away from the Lord, they reject God, they reject His protection from the Devil, and so in that sense He's like, "You're saying you chase me away "and I'm your hedge of protection. "A Devil's going to get to you." And even in the story of Job, the Devil said, "You've put a hedge of angels about him. "But if you move your hedge and I get to touch him, "he'll curse you." And God says, "All right, I'm going to back off "to show you that you're wrong." So that's the big question is, is God guilty of sending evil when He withdraws His protection? And the Lord, He did send a flood on Noah. So people would say, "Well, is that evil?" God didn't make evil but He does judge wickedness.

- [Damon] Mm.

- Does that help, Damon?

- [Damon] Yeah, that does help a lot.

- I've heard people use the verse that way and they want to make it sound like, "See, God made evil." But you could also, if they believe the Bible, I mean they're reading the Bible to try and prove God made evil. Read the part of the Bible where it says: Every good and perfect gift comes from God. And you can read in Genesis where God makes the world, says, "Everything was good, good, very good." And you get to chapter three and men decided not to believe the Word of God and that's when evil came in.

- Mm-hmm. You know we do have that study guide, we mentioned it earlier, it's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" And it deals with this question of, if God is good, why does He allow bad things to happen? And we'll be happy to send this to anyone who calls and asks. The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. And you can ask for the Amazing Fact study guide. It's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" Next caller that we have is Alex. And Alex is listening from Tennessee. Alex, welcome to the program.

- [Alex] Hey! Hello Pastor Doug. Hello Pastor Jean.

- Hi.

- [Alex] So I had a question and I just found the verse to back it up where in Hebrews 9:22 where it says: And almost all things are by the law purged with blood and without shedding of blood there's no remission, which is usually referring to sin. So I was wondering why do you need to use, why did God require blood for the sacrifices? I mean, for remission of sins? Could there have been some alternative or something?

- Yeah, well blood is the epitome of an example of life. And it says in the Bible, and it's in Genesis, Pastor Ross, it's in a couple places, I think. It may be in Leviticus too. The life is in the blood. The life is in the blood. And so when the penalty for sin is death and when Jesus poured out His blood, it's like He gave His life. Every single cell in your body is fed and cleansed by blood and when a person loses their blood, they die. And so it's always become sort of a symbol that blood was an atonement because it represented a life. Now the Jews did not believe in where people would prick their finger and you'd use a little bit of blood to become blood brothers. I remember when I was a kid we did that. I don't know where we got that. We heard that's how you become Indian blood brothers. We need to prick our fingers and we touch the blood together. And the Jews didn't have a ceremony where you used a little bit of your blood. When you gave your blood it was because you died. They would cut the throat of the lamb. It required a death and so the blood became a symbol of that.

- And of course it ties into the cost of redemption was the blood of Christ, meaning the death of Christ, His substitutionary death. And so through the sacrificial system, sacrificing the lambs, it was all pointing forward to Jesus and His sacrifice that was to come. Does that help, Alex?

- [Alex] Yeah. But speaking about Jesus dying, I've heard some people think that it's a moral injustice for Jesus to die on the cross instead of us. What do you think about that?

- Yeah, I think that it's a sign of the love of God that He would substitute Himself. Whenever somebody loves somebody and they say, "Look, I don't want them to suffer. "I will take their suffering for them." The Bible says: No greater love has anyone that than he would lay down his life for a friend. By the way, that verse is Leviticus 17:11. For the life of the flesh is in the blood. And it says: To make atonement for your souls, it is in the blood that makes atonement for the soul. That's probably the best definition there. Leviticus 17:11. But yeah, it's the justice of God. A death was required. He said, "I will die in your place."

- You know, we have a book called, "The High Cost of the Cross" that talks about the sacrifice of Jesus. That's really inspiring and we'd be happy to send this book to anyone who calls and asks. The number to call is 800-835-6747. Again, you can ask for the book. It's called, "The High Cost of the Cross." We'll send it to anyone here in North America. If you're outside of North America, you can read it at the Amazing Facts website. Thanks for your call, Alex. The next caller that we have is Susie. And she's listening from Colorado. Susie, welcome to the program.

- [Susie] Hi.

- Hi.

- [Susie] Thank you for taking my call. I just have one question. I want to know, does our name go in the Book of Life when we're conceived and then it stays there until we reject Christ?

- No, your name goes in the Book of Life when you accept Christ because we're all born in sort of a fallen condition. And when we turn to Christ and we accept Christ, you're born again. Jesus said He's come to give us eternal life. You don't really receive eternal life just by being born. You receive eternal life by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus in your behalf. At that point, He enters your name in the Book of Life. And now a person sometime in their life, they could turn away from the Lord. I think Moses talks about, he said, "Take my name out of your book which you have written." And God says, and this is Exodus 32:33, the Lord said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, "I will blot him out of my book." In other words, among the believers, the children of Israel, they accepted the Lord. But He says if they turn from Him, "I'll take their name out of the book." It doesn't mean one sin, it means a life of sin. You give up on the Lord.

- Mm-hmm. And we have a few more verses. Kind of interesting. Paul refers to this in Philippians 4:3. He talks about his fellow workers whose names are written in the Book of Life. Revelation 3:5 says that those who are faithful, He will not blot their names out of the Book of Life. Revelation 13:8 says: Those whose names have been written in the Book of Life, they are the ones that'll worship God. So to have your name written in the Book of Life is a good thing. It means eternal life.

- Yeah. And anyone listening? I'm sorry. Say that again please.

- [Susie] Babies that die before they can accept Christ.

- Yeah. The Bible's pretty clear that the children of believers that they die before the age of accountability, they're going to be in the kingdom by virtue of their parents' decision. There's a great mystery and debate in the world among theologians about: Is every baby that is born or every baby that's conceived, are they all automatically saved? They definitely are not going to be punished. But whether that means they're automatically all resurrected, that's a mystery. Some believe that yes, every baby that is conceived is going to be in Heaven. And then when you do the math though, it seems like, heavens, you're going to be swimming in babies. And then there's some who believe that they may just go to sleep and be as though they had not been. You were going to say?

- Yeah, I was just going to add to that. You know, we do have a reference in Jeremiah 31:16 that's actually quoted by Matthew and it's referring to the time when the Romans destroyed all of the baby boys in Bethlehem. And the quote from Jeremiah 31:16. Thus saith the Lord, "Refrain your voice from weeping "and your eyes from tears "for your work shall be rewarded," saith the Lord. "And they shall come back from the land of the enemy." So the land of the enemy meaning death here. So this is a promise to those mothers that their children would be resurrected in the resurrection at the second coming of Christ. So we do have hope, yes. Believing parents will get to see their children if they die before the age of accountability.

- Does that help a little, Susie?

- [Susie] Yes it does. Thank you so much.

- All right, thank you.

- Next caller that we have is Paul listening in Idaho. Paul, welcome to the program.

- [Paul] Good day.

- Hi.

- [Paul] Hey, I have a question. Now, this three angels' message that comes in Revelation 14.

- Yes?

- [Paul] Now why are we so fearful of showing that and why are people not accepting it?

- Yeah, that's interesting you had asked that question. I was just working on a message today about the three angels' message I'm going to be sharing this week at a Christian convention in Orlando, and that's my subject. So you're right, some people are reluctant to share it. For those listening, our brother here is talking about the three angels' message. In Revelation 14, it talks about Jesus coming in the clouds and right after Jesus is pictured or right before Jesus is pictured coming in the clouds, it talks about these three angel messages. And Revelation 13 says: Every nation, kindred, tongue and person is going to be forced to worship the beast or they can't buy or sell and they'll be killed. Revelation 14 says the gospel's going to go to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. So in the last days, these messages of angels flying in Heaven, it's a last day emphasis of the gospel and the message of judgment and salvation goes to the world immediately prior to Christ coming. That's why it's a very important present truth.

- And of course, immediately following the proclamation of the three angels' message, Pastor Doug, you read about the second coming of Christ there in Revelation 14.

- [Doug] Yeah.

- And of course the angels, I'm sure they are real angels or angelic angels that assist in the proclamation of the message. But in a very real sense God's people are represented by those angels that are taking that end time message to the world.

- [Doug] Yeah. You know, we do have a study guide talking about the three angels' messages. It's called, "Angel Messages From Space." And a very important subject found there in Revelation 14. We'll send that to anyone who calls and ask. The number again is 800-835-6747. And you can ask for the study guide, "Angel Messages From Space." It's all about the three angels' messages. All right, well thanks for your call. We've got Kirk listening in Texas. Kirk, welcome to the program.

- [Kirk] Yes, thank you.

- Hi. And your question tonight?

- [Kirk] Yes. Oh, I have a lot of questions, but I guess I only have time to ask you one. My question is, did Jesus use His divine nature to overcome the temptation or did He use His human nature to overcome the temptation?

- Well, Jesus ended up using the same power that is available to you and me. Every time He was tempted, He responded by saying, "It is written. It is written." And we can use that. Now in the Bible you've got examples of Bible characters that were tempted that fell. Solomon and David would be examples of that. And in the Bible you've got examples of human characters that were victorious. Joseph was sorely tempted by Potiphar's wife and Job went through a series of terrible temptations. But it said in all these things he'd sin not or did he curse God foolishly or charge God foolishly. And so Jesus, He trusted in His Father. He's an example for us of how we can overcome and how others have overcome. Man doesn't live by bread alone but by every Word. Of course, that's one of the responses that Jesus gave to Lucifer when he was tempted.

- Mm-hmm. And Jesus said in John 5:30, He said, "I can of myself do nothing." That must have shocked the disciples. But when Jesus took upon Himself humanity, He laid aside His divinity in one sense and He trusted in the strength given to Him by His Father, even as His disciples and as believers ought to do.

- Everything Jesus did, He did with the power that is available to you and me. Jesus raised the dead. But you can see where the apostles raised the dead. He healed the sick, the apostles healed the sick. Christ said, "These miracles that I've done, "greater things than these will you do "because I go to the Father." So hopefully that answers your question. Appreciate that. You know we do have a book. It's called, "Tips for Resisting Temptation." And we'll be happy to send this to anyone who asks. Again, the number is 800-835-6747. "Tips for Resisting Temptation." And friends, you hear the music in the background. It's not the end. We're just taking a break. We'll be right back.

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- [Announcer] You're listening to "Bible Answers Live" where every question answered provides a clearer picture of God and His plan to save you. So what are you waiting for? Get practical answers about the Good Book for a better life today. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. Pacific Time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now let's rejoin our hosts for more "Bible Answers Live."

- Welcome back, listening friends, to "Bible Answers Live." I am Pastor Doug Batchelor.

- And my name is Jean Ross. And as you can tell from the name, this is "Bible Answers Live." So if you have a Bible related question, we'd love to hear from you. The number to call if you have a Bible question is 800-463-7297. Pastor Doug, we have quite a few folks lined up waiting for their Bible question, so we're going to go to the very next caller we have. We have someone calling from Sydney, Australia. We got Faday listening from Sydney.

- [Faday] Okay, my question. Okay, the woman that sits on the beast with seven heads. Can I put my two cents in?

- Oh, you have a question or a comment?

- [Faday] A comment of the seven heads.

- All right. Make that brief because most people are waiting to ask a question.

- [Faday] Okay. The birth ministry and the death of Jesus proved seven false religion systems were false. The seven heads, there's seven mountains, seven continents. One says the paganism says God created by men. The second atheism says there is no God. And the third one is Judaism says salvation comes through work. And this fourth one is Islam. Salvation comes through work. And the fifth head is Eastern Mysticism. Man can become God. And one is Catholic. And the other head, number seven, is salvation comes through works. So all they're mountains or hills, well, let's say the Catholic around the world look to their mountain, the Vatican. And Protestant look to the head of Capitol Hill and the other heads look to their God Mountains.

- Yeah.

- [Faday] That's what I see. And the woman that sits on-

- Interesting.

- [Faday] And the woman, that's the woman, that's Jezebel, just like Jesus has a bride, the people, and Jezebel is the antichrist people.

- Okay. Now do you have a question?

- [Faday] That's what I think. That's what I'm saying.

- Oh right. Well, I've never heard that. That's very intriguing. I would respectfully disagree, but I've honestly never heard that interpretation before for the seven mountains that you find in Revelation 17. Most people believe it says that that woman is a great city that reigns over the kings of the Earth. When John had his vision, that great city was of course the kingdom of Rome that had imprisoned him and of course was responsible for the execution of Jesus. And that those, it says five of those seven hills are also seven, not only the seven hills of Rome, Rome is called The City of Seven Hills, and here you've got a woman. It's a church situated in Rome that doesn't leave any questions I would think. But it says that those seven hills are also seven kings. Five are fallen, one is, one is yet to come. He's also the eighth. I'm paraphrasing. And people have believed these are the five empires that have occupied and persecuted God's people, namely Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece. Those are the five that were fallen when John had his vision. One is Rome was the one that is and it says he's also the seventh because it was first Pagan Rome is the sixth. Papal Rome is the seventh. Papal Rome receives a deadly wound but comes back again, meaning he's also the eighth. Now, that may not be a perfect interpretation but it's satisfied me for several years.

- [Jean] Mm-hmm.

- And I think most many Protestant Reformers believed something like that.

- Yes, and if you go back into the Old Testament, you notice starting as early as the Book of Daniel, you find different beasts representing kingdoms that have warred against God's people. You find that not only in the Old Testament, but of course in the New Testament there was also persecutions that came upon Christians through various political and then eventually political religious powers as you look in history. So that's an interesting study in Revelation 17. Thanks for your call. Next caller that we have is Steven listening from Canada. Steven, welcome to the program.

- [Steven] Hi Pastor Doug Batchelor and Pastor Jean Ross. Nice to be on.

- Oh, it's good to have you on.

- [Steven] My question is, it says in chapter 12 of Numbers, it says: And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married, for he had married an Ethiopian woman. So my question is, I'm curious. It says she's an Ethiopian woman in chapter 12, but why like back in Numbers chapter, just before chapter three and in the first verse of chapter three, it talks, well, obviously because Jethro being the Prince of Midia or Jethro's, well, he's a Midianite. His daughter would, of course, naturally be a Midianite. If I'm saying that correctly. So I'm just wondering why seeming contradiction or just something maybe the way that King James laid it out? I don't know. I'm wondering what you guys think about that.

- Yeah, there's a couple of ways and no one's absolutely sure. But of course Moses first meets Zipporah, a Midianite, the daughter of, I think she's the oldest of Jethro's daughters. And he meets her 40 years earlier. He rescues the girls by the well and he has sons with her. She's still alive when he goes into Egypt because there's a mention of her specifically. Later, her father-in-law comes and brings the boys. I guess she had gone back during the 10 plagues. She had gone back to Midian and her father then meets up with the boys and with his wife. A Midianite, they could easily be called an Ethiopian because it was all the same territory. So many times in the Bible you'll hear a particular group of people and there's a couple of different ways they're referenced. You know, Aaron, this is an example of Miriam and Aaron. They were upset that Moses did not marry a Jewish girl, even though Midian is related to Abraham. She was not an Israelite. And she may have been darker skinned and so they're exhibiting some frustration. And I think that Miriam was also feeling slighted that God is speaking to her younger brother and she had been a prophetess and not talking to her. And she was wanting some of the leadership. She wanted to be promoted. So she gets punished through this story you find here in Exodus 12. But the other theory is that after 40 something years of marriage, maybe Zipporah had died and Moses had remarried, which would not be uncommon because he still had another 40 years to live. So they're not sure. There's nothing in the Bible that says explicitly one way or the other. I'm inclined to think that they just had two different ways of referring to Zipporah. One is she's a Midianite, the other one says she's a Ethiopian. Midian was a tribe, Ethiopia was kind of more of a race.

- Mm-hmm. And an area.

- Yeah.

- They came from. All right, well thanks for your call Steven. We appreciate it. We've got Jonathan listening in Nashville, Tennessee. Jonathan, welcome to the program.

- [Jonathan] Hey, good evening.

- Hi.

- [Jonathan] Pastor Ross, Pastor Batchelor, how y'all doing?

- Doing good. Thank you for calling.

- [Jonathan] All right, good to hear. Hey, this question is regarding the Book of Daniel. Been looking at some of the prophecies on how some of the other Christian faith communities look at how the kingdoms are run in sequence. What do you think where some of the disagreement or where things kind of diverge and how the gap theory and some of these seven year tribulations? I guess what are the scriptures that we could point to help us look by these kingdoms run in sequence versus allowing for any gap?

- Yeah, great question. Now I think Jonathan's referring more specifically to Daniel 9 where there's a 490 year prophecy. And you know all the kingdoms, namely Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, you got Pagan Rome, Papal Rome, and then the divisions of the Roman Empire, they all kind of run in sequence. When you get to Daniel 9, it talks about this 490 year prophecy and then it tells us that after 483 years, Messiah is cut off. Of course, in that last seven years, it says in the midst of the week he causes the sacrifice to cease. That's talking about from the time of Jesus' baptism, He ministers 3 1/2 years, He dies on the cross, the veil in the temple is ripped, He causes the sacrifice to cease. He rises from the dead and for 3 1/2 years, He tells the disciples, "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles. "Continue to preach to the lost house of Israel." The time for the Jewish nation had not been cut off yet until the Supreme Court of the nation stoned Stephen, the Sanhedrin. But there was a, I think this came in with Darbyism, they came in with a futuristic interpretation that that seven weeks was not contiguous with the 483 years of Daniel 9. That you could take that seven weeks and you could float it around in the end of time somewhere, and it was the seven years of tribulation. You don't find the phrase, "Seven years of tribulation" anywhere in the Bible. This is a very, in my opinion, it is a very free-spirited interpretation as someone just kind of made this up and they thought it sounded good. And I've heard people say, "Well, because Noah had to wait in the ark seven days "before the flood, "that's representing the seven last place "and seven years of the time of trouble." Now, I think that this is all one continuous prophecy of 490 years. We have a study guide on that.

- We do. I'm actually looking. It's called, "Right on Time." And it deals with this 490 year time period that you find in the Book of Daniel. And we'll be happy to send this to anyone who calls and asks. The number to call is 800-835-6747. And you can ask for the study guide. It's called, "Right on Time." And we'll get it to you in the mail. Thank you for your call. We've got, let's see, our next caller. We're going to go to Jeff. Jeff in Wellingham or Wilington, Delaware? Jeff, welcome to the program.

- [Jeff] Hey, how you doing? It's actually Wilmington. Wilmington, Delaware.

- There we go.

- [Jeff] Like the one in North Carolina. Well, first I want to praise God for Doug Batchelor and yourself, your active involvement in the community because I think if you look going back in the past, it's really something the Seventh-day Adventist Church needed to provide and you guys are doing it. So thank you very much. I appreciate it.

- Well, thank you. And your question tonight?

- [Jeff] I actually have a couple. Was Lucifer an anomaly? How many men were translated? Did angels fornicate with men? And I have two other ones if you want to want to hit those.

- Oh yeah, let's. First of all the one about, "Did angels have intimate relations with men?" That often comes from Genesis 6 where it says: The sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair and took the wives of all they chose. People think those sons of God are angels. It's not at all what it's talking about. It's talking about the descendants of Seth intermarried with the descendants of Cain. And once they lost that distinction, violence filled the Earth. We have a book on that that we'll send you. It's called, "Angels: Alien or Adopted? "Who Are the Sons of God?"

- The number to call is 800-835-6747. And again, you can ask for the book it's called, "Who Are the Sons of God?" And I'm trying to think. Was there another question that Jeff had?

- You asked? You threw two or three quick ones there. Yeah.

- [Jeff] Yeah. What are your thoughts? Was Lucifer an anomaly? because you said God didn't create sin, so Lucifer created sin. Was that an anomaly?

- Well, no. Well, what I mean by no is that God did not have a defect if you mean by anomaly. God made all of His creatures perfect. And it even says in the Bible: Thou was perfect in all your ways. And part of the perfection is Lucifer was made perfectly free. And in his perfect freedom, he was able to choose whether to love God supremely or to start loving himself more. And Lucifer became involved in self-worship. He didn't want to worship God. He wanted to be God. Says, "Thou has said in thy heart, "'I will be like the Most High.'" God is so free that He will even make a creature that can choose not to love Him. And so Lucifer, by his own free choice, rebelled against God.

- And that of course reminds me of that free offer we have. It's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" And it deals with the subject. The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. Ask for the study guide, "Did God Create a Devil?" Thanks for your call, Jeff. We're going to go to Yolanda listening in Arizona. Yolanda, welcome to the program.

- [Yolanda] Hi.

- Hi. How are you doing?

- [Yolanda] I'm good. How are you?

- Yeah, doing great. And your question tonight?

- [Yolanda] Okay, so I have, first of all, I'd like to tell you guys thank you so much for Amazing Facts. It was five years ago that I heard one of your sermons and I heard things that I've never heard before. So I want to thank you for Amazing Facts and to teaching the truth. Thank you so much.

- Thank you so much. Yeah, it's our pleasure.

- [Yolanda] Okay. So my question is in Genesis 4:23 and 24, with Lamech, where it says, "Hear my voice, you wives of Lamech. "Harken unto my speech, "for I have slain a man to my wounding "and a young man to my hurt. "If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, "truly Lamech 70 and sevenfold." I don't know what that means.

- Yeah, well it's going through the genealogies and it just highlights this incident about Lamech. And I think one reason it mentions it is, first of all, it's the first mention of polygamy. He has more than one wife. It's not his wife. It's says, "His wives." And he says, "Ada and Zilla, hear my voice. "Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech." And the way it's worded in the King James is a little confusing. New King James says, "For I've killed a man for wounding me "and a young man for hurting me." So now Cain killed Abel with no provocation. Abel did not attack Cain. Cain killed him a premeditated cold-blooded murder. Here Lamech is saying, "I killed a man. "But if Cain's going to be avenged sevenfold "because he did it premeditated, I did it in self-defense, "then I'll be avenged 70 times sevenfold." And it's giving you a sample of where you read later in Genesis 6, violence was filling the land. It says that it specifically mentions in Genesis 6. Said there is just violence and the men's thoughts were only evil continually. Here you've got, in this one passage, you've got polygamy or adultery and murder and violence. So it's telling you that things were going south quickly. So does that help a little, Yolanda?

- [Yolanda] Yes, it does. Thank you so much.

- Thank you. Appreciate your calling.

- We've got Joy listening from the Bronx in New York. Joy, welcome to the program.

- [Joy] Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. I would like to know who's the chief musician.

- [Doug] You're talking about in the Psalms?

- [Joy] Yes.

- Yeah, I think at one point when they had the sanctuary, maybe even before the temple of Moses, David, he had organized musicians. David of course was a very accomplished musician. He not only played the harp, it says that he made instruments. I don't know if he gave instruction on how they were to make them, but he was very skilled in doing it. So much so the King brought him to his palace to sing and to play. And so David had a love for music. He set up a choir that was to praise God in the temple. And he had a chief choir director and it's called the chief musician. The first one that I think is mentioned is Asaph, if I'm not mistaken. And you'll see there are several Psalms that are written by Asaph. Not all the Psalms were written by David in the Book of Psalms. I think David wrote about 71 or 75 of them. And so some of these songs may be compositions that were written by David and for the chief musician to then instruct the Levites and the singers to sing.

- And of course these Psalms are used many, many years after David.

- Yeah.

- So you'd have different chief musicians that would be in that role in the sanctuary.

- The music conductor.

- That's right. Yeah. Coordinating the music.

- He was the chief conductor.

- All right, well thank you for your call. That's a good question. Thanks, Joy. Our next caller is Alex listening in Chicago. Alex, welcome to the program.

- [Alex] Hi, thank you so much for taking my call Pastor, both pastors. Basically I have a question in terms of marriage and what book I can look to, especially in Corinthians, whether I should stay in a relationship or I should leave a relationship where I don't have a specific denomination. I'm Adventist and he is not. And I wanted to know what are some signs God can be telling me to leave a relationship?

- Well, in the Bible there are only a couple of examples or biblical grounds for divorce. One of those being where Jesus says in Matthew 19, and I think it's also in Matthew 5, says, "What God has joined together, "let not man put asunder, "saving for the cause of fornication." So if a spouse moves in with someone else and has an adulterous affair, that's grounds for divorce. It doesn't mean there has to be divorce. If there's repentance and there can be reconciliation, that's always better. I mean, you think about all the times that God's church has, according to the Bible, says: The people of God have played the harlot against God and yet He comes after us. If you read the Book of Hosea it tells that story. The other example, you mentioned Corinthians. In 1 Corinthians 7, they had a specific situation where Paul was preaching to these Roman pagans, they don't worship God, and if one of them accepted Jesus. So you've got the Greco-Roman pagan and they worship Jupiter and all these gods, and then they accepted Christ, they got rid of idolatry. Well, their spouse was so upset, they said, "Look, I didn't sign up for this. "I married you. I thought we were in the same religion. "Now you've left and become a Christian. I'm leaving you." Paul said, "Well, try to get them to stay if they can. "If they choose to leave, then let them depart in peace." So he mentions a specific case there. He's not talking about when two believers, well, just are having irreconcilable differences. They're married and they got to work it out. So hopefully that gives you some background. And by the way, that's in 1 Corinthians 7 you'll find most of that there.

- Now Alex, were you also asking about dating or marriage?

- [Alex] As far as I'm aware, there is no mention of dating in the Bible or at least New Testament. So I wanted to know, I guess, does God give you hints whether to stay or leave a relationship, especially when this person's making it hard or asking for a break and staying faithful and all that.

- Yeah, if you're married then we don't ever recommend a person stays in an abusive relationship. There should be separation, hopefully counseling. But marriage is very serious business and it's a covenant. And if you've made that covenant-

- And of course before marriage, the Bible does tell us in 2 Corinthians 6:14 not to be unequally yoked.

- Right.

- And maybe this is what your question is also referring to, Alex. If we're in a dating relationship or a courtship type of relationship with an unbeliever or somebody who might be a Christian but their beliefs are quite different than your beliefs, well, the Bible does give us counsel on that. And it's going to be a challenge to have a strong healthy marriage if you have people believing things differently.

- [Doug] Mm-hmm.

- You know, you have all kinds of questions that arise when children come along. Are they going to go to which parent's church? And there's all kinds of issues. So the counsel that we have in the Bible is do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

- Yeah. Now we have a book that I've written on the subject of marriage. It's called, "Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage." And we'll send you or someone else that might be wanting Bible answers on that a free copy.

- The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. And again, the book is called, "Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage." We'll send that to anyone in North America. All you have to do is call that number. And we've got somebody calling from South Korea. Let's see if I can pronounce his name. We have Jowa from South Korea. Welcome to the program.

- [Jowa] Oh, thank you so much for pronouncing my name just right. This is my first time calling.

- Oh, welcome.

- [Jowa] My question is my friend believes that China and America are two fighting dragons, according to his understanding of the Book of Daniel and Revelation. But I don't see it in the Bible. What's your take on that?

- Yeah, it's a common belief that because you look in the world today and people think of a lion, they think of Great Britain, and the eagle, they think of the US. And almost internationally because the dragon is a big part of Chinese festivities, people think that the dragon is China. In prophecy when it talks about the dragon, it had nothing to do with China. China was not known as the dragon in Bible times. The dragon in Bible prophecies talking about the Devil. In Revelation 12, it's more specifically talking about the Devil working through the Roman Empire. When the dragon sought to devour the man child, that's when the Devil tried to destroy Jesus as a baby in Bethlehem. And so we've got a whole study that talks about that. But yes, folks, I believe that China may be mentioned in prophecy, but it's not the dragon in prophecy.

- And we do find America mentioned in the Book of Revelation. It's actually the second beast power that you read about in Revelation 13.

- But we're not the eagle.

- No, we're not the eagle there.

- So can't use those modern, what do you call, icons anymore.

- Yep. All right, well, thanks for your call. We're going to go to-

- Oh, we could offer him that lesson on American prophecy too.

- Oh, that's a good one. Yes. Again, if you're outside of North America, which you are, just go to the Amazing Facts website and you can read the study guide. It's called, "America in Prophecy." If you're in North America, the number to call is 800-835-6747. Ask for the study guide, "America in Prophecy." We've got, let's see, Lynn listening in Michigan. Lynn, we have just a couple minutes before we take a quick break.

- [Lynn] Yes, hello gentlemen. I have a very quick question. God created light right off the bat. I'm just wondering, in the war in Heaven, in the time before He created light, I can't believe it was dark then. I don't know. Maybe they had a different sensory system. But if light wasn't created till Earth's time, was it dark in the war in Heaven?

- No, because you can read in 1 John 1:5, it says: This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. So when God came to this corner of the universe and began creating just by His coming here, He said, "Let there be light." His presence glows. I mean, Moses came away from the presence of God and Moses was glowing. Kind of like that radioactive clock you used to hold to the light and then you turn off the lights, it glowed for a little while. Through exposure to God, Moses was glowing. So when God came to this darkened part of the cosmos, He said, "Let there be light." And He began to divide the day from darkness, just by, I think, spinning the Earth. And whatever side was facing Him was day because He doesn't make the Sun until the fourth day. So in Heaven, God's glory and light is there. And you read in Revelation it says there is no need of the Sun in the City of God, for the Lord God illuminates the city in Heaven.

- And when you read the different descriptions of Heaven that the prophets saw in the Bible, they speak about the glory and the brilliance and just the majesty of the presence of God.

- [Doug] Yeah.

- The light shining forth from God. When the children of Israel were in the wilderness and the Shekinah glory, the presence, the visible presence of God, was revealed there in the tabernacle, in the sanctuary, there was a light, a glorious light. And of course, when God gave the 10 Commandments on Mount Sinai, there was thundering and light and just great majesty.

- Yeah, the presence of God is, Bible says: The wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. And so God is light. In Him is no darkness at all. Now listening friend, you don't want to go away. We're signing off our friends listening on satellite radio, but we are coming back with a bonus Bible question. It's on a very interesting question, so stay tuned. We'll be back for our final question.

- [Announcer] Thank you for listening to today's broadcast. We hope you understand your Bible even better than before. "Bible Answers Live" is produced by Amazing Facts International, a faith-based ministry located in Granite Bay, California.

- Hello friends. Welcome back for our "Bible Answers Live" bonus question. For those of you who are joining us at the Amazing Facts Television channel, also watching on Facebook or listening on the other radio stations, we, from time to time, get people calling in or writing in with a Bible question. We've got an interesting question that came from a gentleman by the name of Eric and he is writing from Florida. And Pastor Doug, here's his question. He says, first of all, he talks about himself mentioning that one of the things he does is he is a ghost hunter. So I guess he investigates these paranormal type of things happening. He says also that he knows that we're not to communicate with the dead, but his question is, my main question is, "Can I be a Christian and be a ghost hunter? "Is that possible?"

- Well, if you're a Christian, I would think you'd want to be a Jesus hunter.

- Amen.

- Why would you want to hunt for ghosts? First of all, some people think that ghosts are the spirits of dead people that are haunting. But the Bible's very clear. The living know they'll die, the dead know not anything. And you can read in the Book of Job, and I think it's chapter 14, says: When a man dies, his sons come to honor. He doesn't know anything of it. He does not return to his house to go haunt his house. And so the ghosts that people think they're seeing are typically fallen angels, sometimes called evil spirits in the Bible, that are posing as the dead. And you've got an example of that in, I believe it says at the end of 1 Samuel where you know, Saul goes to see the Witch of Endor and this evil spirit impersonates through a medium, the dead prophet. And as a result of going, trying to consult with the dead, Saul ends up losing the battle. His three sons die and he commits suicide the next day along with his armor bearer. It didn't end well. The Lord says, "Have nothing to do with a Necromancer." And that means somebody who is consulting with the dead.

- You know, we do have a study guide talking about this. It's got an intriguing title. It says, "Are the Dead Really Dead?" And it talks about the subject. It's important, Pastor Doug, that we understand this because we know in the last days the Devil is going to do everything he can to deceive. And I think one of his deceptions is dead loved ones appearing and saying things that would contradict the Bible.

- That'll confuse folks. You know, we also have another website called And some of our friends are writing in questions or in prison, they may not have access to the internet, but for those of you that do, you can just go to Hey friends, we've run out of time for our "Bible Answers" program for this week, but God willing, we're going to be back together with you again next week. We hope that you'll tell your friends to tune in now on AFTV as well as these other stations. God bless.

- [Announcer] "Bible Answers Live," honest and accurate answers to your Bible questions.

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