Apparently Nothing

Lesson: 1
Nothing is ever nothing – not Satan’s minutest deceptions, not God’s quietest warnings, and the seemingly small things are never really small, for “to a man who lives for God, nothing is secular, everything is sacred,” (C.H.S). Tune in now as we discuss what part we can take in the special mission the Lord has given us to prepare the world for His return. We must show to be His, we must take Christ’s strength, we must tear away from the ignorance. The Lord throws us the obvious sometimes; we must see Him, and see through the enemy.

Cosmic Conflict: The Origin of Evil Magazine

Cosmic Conflict: The Origin of Evil Magazine
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Announcer: It is the best-selling book in history. No volume ever written has been more loved and quoted, and its words sometimes simple and sometimes mysterious should always be studied carefully. It is the Bible, the Word of God. Welcome to "Bible Answers Live," providing accurate and practical answers to all your Bible questions. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this broadcast, in this broadcast, once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now here's your host from Amazing Facts International, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Doug Batchelor: Hello friends, would you like to hear an amazing fact? A Virginia woman, Kaylin Phillips, is lucky to be alive. In 2021, while studying in Bali, Indonesia, she found a cute little golden octopus with blue rings at the beach. After catching the creature, she recorded a video of her and her friends fondling the little animal and passing it around before they released it. When she posted the video on her Instagram account, several stunned people responded, warning her that the cute little cephalopod was the highly venomous blue ringed octopus. She looked it up online and discovered the animal is among the deadliest in the ocean, with another venom to kill more than 26 people. The bite of the little creature can kill within minutes, causing respiratory arrest. Compounding her near death experience, there is no antidote for the venom of the blue ringed octopus. That's a good reminder that some things might appear cute and harmless, but they can still be deadly and you know it-- It's amazing Pastor Ross, an Octopus is so quick at changing its colors in, I think a fraction, like 1/3 of a second it can completely change not only the color, but the texture of its skin. It's probably the most versatile of all the creatures in the ocean. And can you imagine the horror of this young lady? She cried when she finally found out how close to death she was, passing it around with her friends and all they had to do was anger it and if it wanted to, it could have bit them and high mortality likelihood if you get bit by that.

Jëan Ross: Well, you know, Pastor, you think of dangerous animals, you think of a snake, you think of those water snakes, you think of-- yeah, I don't know, sharks and other animals but a little cute octopus, you don't think it's deadly [laughs], it seems kind of friendly and nice and, you know, people pick it up. And yet, it's--you mentioned before the program, it's got enough venom in one of those--one little octopus, that it could kill multiple individuals?

Doug: Yeah, 26 people. They say it's 1000 times more toxic than arsenic.

Jëan: Wow.

Doug: So yeah.

Jëan: Very poisonous.

Doug: Cute, but deadly. And it reminds me of that verse in the Bible where it says that Satan can appear as an angel of light. I think when he appeared to Jesus in the wilderness, he didn't appear as a devil he appeared as an angel sent from heaven, and so that he can deceive; he's more effective. So, you know, we've got to be careful because there's a battle going on between good and evil and Satan, he can use a combination of truth and error, where God only uses truth. For our friends who are watching, I think we've got a special brand new offer that is right hot-off-the-press.

Jëan: That's right. We got a new magazine that Amazing Facts has just finished, it's called, "Cosmic Conflict." If you ever wondered about, did God create a devil or why is their pain and suffering or why does God allow good people to suffer, it's all contained in the magazine, the answers to these important questions? And as Pastor Doug mentioned, it's one of our newer magazines, very popular. We don't always offer this as a free offer, but we are tonight, so take advantage of that. The number to call for that is just simply 800-835-6747 or you can dial #250, say "Bible Answers Live" and then ask for the magazine "Cosmic Conflict." We'll send it to you if you're in the US or in Canada. So again, the number is 800-835-6747. You can ask for it all or just dial #250 on your smartphone, say, "Bible Answers Live," and we'll get it in the mail to you. Well Pastor Doug, before we go to the phone lines, let's start with a word of prayer. Dear Father in Heaven, we thank you once again for this opportunity to open up your Word and study. And, Lord, we ask that you would be with us here in the studio and the many who are listening across the country and even in other places around the world, Lord, lead us together into a clearer and a full understanding of what Your Word says. Jesus said we shall know the truth, and the truth will set us free, so guide us, in Jesus's name we pray. Amen.

Doug: Amen. Jëan: All right. Well, we're ready for our first caller this evening, Pastor Doug. We got Gary listening in Illinois. Gary, you are on Bible Answers Live.

Gary: Thank you. In Revelation 13, three unclean spirits go out of the mouth of the dragon, signs that lead the kings of the Earth to gather them to battle on that great day of God Almighty, to a place in the Hebrew called Armageddon. Is one of those signs 2 Corinthians 11 verse 14? Satan appears as an angel of light, if not, when does Satan appear as an angel of light?

Doug: Okay, good question. A little correction, I think you're quoting Revelation 16 and I think you said Revelation 13. This is the verse that talks about Armageddon. And the--when it says three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the beast, the dragon or the false prophet to go to the kings of the Earth to deceive them for a battle. This is referencing a story in the Old Testament where King Saul was deceived by evil spirits when he saw a witch before a battle in which he was slain, and he actually committed suicide. But um--and so I think there's illusions to this happening there in the Old Testament. So, in the future it tells us that there's going to be spiritualism that's going to be used to deceive the leaders of the world into embracing the teachings of the beast power. Now, is that when Satan impersonates Christ? I'd say yes, he's got to be part of that. It's going to be before the Battle of Armageddon because that's when it's going to do him good, it won't do him any good after the battle.

Jëan: And of course, Paul writes that the devil himself can be transformed into an angel of light, so he appears as a messenger from heaven and the devil is going to try and impersonate Christ and maybe perform miracles and signs and wonders and gather together the world for this final conflict. Now, of course, the Bible is good news, it tells us that at the end of time there's actually a death decree, that's not the good news, a death decree passed against God's commandment keeping people but before it can be enforced, Jesus comes a second time to rescue his people. So, those of the seal of God and they're trusting in the Lord, they will be delivered.

Doug: Yeah, it's like the book of Esther, where there's a death decree against all of God's people and before it's enacted, they're delivered. Yeah.

Jëan: Okay, very good. Well, I think Gary, we've got another question coming from the Book of Revelation, Steven in Florida. Steven, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Steven: Hello, how are you doing?

Doug: Doing wonderful. And your question tonight?

Steven: I have a question on the 144,000 and who they are and how me and my twin brother can be there?

Doug; All right, the 144,000 is found in Revelation 7 and in Revelation 14. And as always, one of the keys to understanding Revelation is having a familiarity with the Old Testament. And in the Old Testament, Solomon and David divided both their armies and their priests in divisions of 24 and 12. And then of course, Jesus had 12 apostles, 144,000 is 12 times 12,000. So, in the last days, in the same way that Christ had 12 apostles, it says the 144,000 follow the Lamb wherever he goes. When Jesus came the first time, 12 apostles followed him wherever he went. Jesus told the 12 apostles to go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel at his first coming. Before his Second Coming, he's going to have 12 times 12,000 leaders that will be doing a special work of proclamation just like the apostles. The apostles were not the only ones that were spirit-filled at Pentecost and saved, just like the 144,000 are not the only ones that are saved, but they've got a special mission globally to prepare the world for the Second Coming. And if you and your brother follow the Lamb wherever he goes, you can be one of them.

Jëan: And you know, we have a book that we'll be happy to send you, Steve, or anyone wanting to learn more about the 144,000, and it's called, "Who Will Sing The Song? Understanding the 144,000," and we'll send it to you for free. All you have to do is call the number 800-835-6747 or dial #250. Ask for the book on the 144,000, we'll get in the mail and send it to you if you're in the US or in Canada, if you're outside of North America, just go to our website,, you'll be able to read the book online at the Free Library. Thanks for your call, Steven. We've got Anthony listening in New York. Anthony, welcome to the program.

Anthony: Hello, good evening, pastors.

Doug: Evening. Thank you for calling.

Anthony: Yes, I actually have several questions or--on this-- kind of on the same verses. But my one question is, Revelation 19 verse 20, well 19 and 20, depicts a situation where the beast tries to make war against Christ, Who sits on the white horse. In verse 20 it says, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped his-- worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Now, I've always heard and learned that the beast and the false prophet are systems, so they represent systems. So, what I'd like to know is, practically speaking, if the lake of fire, which we believe is literal-- before the Millennium, how do-- how do systems get cast into the lake of fire?

Doug: Well, I'll do my best to explain that. In the Bible, it talks about the devil was cast into the lake of fire, but then it also says, "And his angels." So, the devil represents evil and the opposition. He has a system and he's got followers underneath him. Not only is the devil and his angels thrown in the lake of fire, you read where Jesus said that the goats are going to be cast into the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. So, all the wicked. So, when it talks about the beast, it's talking about any leadership of the beast and all the followers along with it, so they share the fate. When Queen Athalia was destroyed in the Old Testament, it says, "And all that follow her." So, I think it's just the beast as you--talking about the figurehead, and there may be a physical figurehead of the beast power and a false prophet, but them talking about them and their followers that would be the system.

Jëan: And if you look at the-- the prophetic picture, both in the books of Daniel and Revelation, you have for example in Daniel, you have different beasts that represent kingdoms or political powers which are conquered by another kingdom. So, that kingdom would have a king, a leader, but also the citizens of that kingdom. So, at the end of time there is a counterfeit system of worship, but it also involves specific individuals who are leading that counterfeit system of worship.

Doug: Right.

Jëan: So that's all going to come to an end as we find it described in in Revelation chapter 19.

Doug: Thank you, Anthony.

Jëan: We've got Brittany listening in California. Brittany, welcome to the program.

Brittany: Yeah, I was wondering for the-- for the actual, you know, saved and believing Christian, does it really matter if we study the original Hebrew and Greek text like the original Hebrew? Is it fine to just stick with the translation?

Doug: Yeah. You know, I'd say that most people that are going to be in the kingdom probably did not speak the original languages. So, it's certainly not a requirement for salvation. You know, for some people, they are given gifts where they're more analytical and they--you know, the Lord has raised up people that are professors and teachers that go deeper. And I like to get into the meaning of the Word in the original. It's very easy now with computer programs. I can click right here on my computer program and it will not only tell me the meaning of the word in the original language, it will pronounce it for me. So, there's some great tools today that even a layman-- If you--if you read through the Bible, read through and enjoy it but sometimes if there's a word that piques your curiosity, you can easily look up that word on the Internet and say, "What's the original Greek for that, or the Hebrew?" And you can expand, you know, the Bible says, "Study to show yourself approved." It's nice, but it's not required that you can read a Bible in another foreign language. I would say for a new Christian, don't worry about reading it in the original languages until you've read the whole Bible and you're acquainted with the teachings pretty well because you not only want to go deep, you want to go wide. You want to make sure you get the scope of the Bible story before you start zeroing in on one chapter and the original verses.

Jëan: All right, we got Junith of listening in Nevada. Junith, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Junith: Hello, hello, a blessed evening to both of you. Can you hear me well?

Doug: Yes.

Junith: Yes, okay. Yes, the gist of my question is or is related to verses Matthew 7:21, James chapter 2, verse 10, Revelation 14:9 and Mark chapter 2, verse 28. This is what did what or what does Jesus really mean when He says, "Depart from Me, for I do not know you; you are lawless." Is this the the interpretation of the mark of the 666? We appreciate your further explanation.

Doug: Yeah, well, the passage there in both Matthew and in James, the emphasis is on those that know the Lord that are listening to His Word. He wants us to not only be hearers, but doers of His Word. Now, certainly the people that receive the mark of the beast in the end days, they're not obeying the commandments and doing His Word, but I want to limit those verses to that time in history. It's at any time in history the message of Jesus and the message of James and the others you mentioned is basically saying God wants us to not just be hearing, but He wants us to be doing. So, it says, it's not everyone that says Lord, Lord, but he that does the will of My Father in heaven, and then James, it says it's not those who just look at the mirror, but they are seeing the Word. They hear the Word and they walk in Word.

Jëan: And you know, we do have a study guide that talks about the mark of the beast. Yes, Revelation talks about this beast power and he has a mark, and we'll be happy to send you a study guide that tells you more. It's a it's a deep study, an important study. Just call and ask for the study guide. It's called, "The Mark of The Beast". The number to call is 800-835-6747 or again you can dial #250 and say I want The Amazing Facts study guide called "The Mark of The Beast", and we'll get in the mail and Send it to you. We've got James listening in Tennessee. James, welcome to the program.

James: Thank you very much.

Doug: Thank you.

James: Is the 144,000 is that number compared to Noah's time, when there were only eight people saved, is that because the population is so much larger now at this time of the history of the world?

Doug: Well, there it's hard to say exactly what the population was at the time of the flood. I think many people believe that it was probably much bigger than you might expect. When you look at the life expectancy of the people that were living before Noah, they were living centuries, and ostensibly they were procreating. God said, be fruitful and multiply. They were very healthy in their virility, and they may have had very big families. And you do the math and there could have been a billion people in the world back then. So we don't know. It's hard to guess. But in the last days when it says that there's 144,000, we don't believe they are the only ones saved. You know, right now there are approximately 8 billion people in the world, and I did it on a calculator one time and I think if only 144,000 people out of 8 billion are saved, that means your chances are about one and 50,000. Which could be discouraging. It's, you know, it's better than the lottery, but it's still not great, but I don't think the 144,000 are the only ones that are saved. I think when Jesus comes, he's not coming for 8:00 or 10 people and it's going to look like a failure. I think he's going to have a a great trophy of people that have trusted him. So will it be the minority? Yes, it'll be smaller. It's--broad road is the one to destruction; the narrow gate and few that find it is the one to life because few you are looking for it. But you may also enjoy the book on the 144,000.

Jëan: Yeah, all you have to do is just call and ask for it. The number to call: 800-835-6747. Ask for the book on the 144,000, we'll send it to you. You know, Pastor Doug, I also think that perhaps God waited until the last moment when there was just eight righteous people left at the time of Noah and his mercy wanted to give people as much time as possible. And as you mentioned, they probably were others that were saved just prior to the flood. They might have died. Yeah, some great patriarchs of the Old Testament and their influence. But at the time of the flood, there were just eight righteous people. Now, according to Bible prophecy, before Jesus comes the gospel gets preached to the world, and it'll be more than eight that received the message, but it's small in comparison to the world population. Okay, well, thanks for your call. We've got who do we have? We've got Anna listening in Oregon. Anna, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Anna: Hi.

Doug: Hi.

Anna: My question is, from the 9th Commandment about not lying. So, I have a nurse friend who works at a retirement home, and we were talking about how the doctors tell the nurses to basically lie to the dementia patients, and the doctors tell everyone to basically lie to them because it upsets them too much. So, I was wondering, is that considered lying?

Doug: Well, like, yeah, no, I understand. I think what you're asking is, you got a patient, and sometimes they might be asking a question. They've got enough knowledge to comprehend, but they're struggling with dementia. Their prognosis may be bad. And if you tell them that, they get very stressed and it makes things worse. And so, you try and put a positive spin on what you're saying to them and at that point, you know, it might not even be truthful. You know, I never think it's right to lie. I think sometimes, like with children, they might be asking you questions about the birds and the bees, and they're too young for you to explain everything to them. And so, you share things in a in a gentle way, but you never lie to them. You know, I don't think you should tell your kids that Santa Claus is the one who's bringing the presents and deceive them in any way. Jesus said to the disciples, there's many things I have to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. So, even Christ knew that truth must be shared at a speed that people can digest it, and I think you know, a good doctor has ways of not disturbing a patient, but not lying to them. I can't ever think of a scenario where God would say it's okay to lie.

Jëan: Yeah, very good. You know, it is a challenge. I think with work with dementia patients in particular, you got to be tactful, pray for wisdom. You might have to explain things in a very simple child like manner and maybe emphasize the positive part of it. But you want to be honest in all your dealings.

Doug: Yeah.

Jëan: So pray for wisdom on that. Next caller that we have is Lilly listening from California, Lilia or Leila? Welcome. Lila, welcome to the program.

Lila: Oh, thank you. Hi pastors. My name is Lila.

Jëan: Lila, welcome, Lila.

Lila: Thank you. And I live in Fresno, California. My question is: is Jesus fully divine? Because I heard the pastor saying that He's not fully divine because He will be-- He is always and will be always under the command of God the Father. What does that mean?

Doug: Well, I don't know exactly what the pastor was thinking, and I don't want to, you know, put words in his mouth. But I'll tell you what the Bible says is that Jesus is fully divine, divine meaning holy, He is God the Son. You don't get any higher than God. Now, there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, but all three of them are co-eternal, self-sustaining, and They have--Jesus said He's from everlasting to everlasting, And, you know, while Christ became a human and He has ever associated with humans, He has not lost His divinity. So you know, Jesus is the Word made flesh. He's the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, all things that were made, were made by Him, and the Bible says in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth and Jesus is God the Son.

Jëan: Absolutely. And of course, there's a whole study guide that talks about the Godhead, and it's called, "The Trinity: Is It Biblical?" It's one of our books

Doug: Yep. I think the new version is: "One God or Three?"

Jëan: "One God or Three?" Okay. I was wondering about that If we changed the name. "One God or Three?" is then the name of the book, and just call and ask for it. You can dial #250 on your smartphone or 1-800-835-6747 and you ask for the book on the Trinity called, "One God or Three?" We'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. Glenn listening in Ohio. Glenn, welcome to the program.

Glenn: Thank you, pastors, for taking my call.

Doug: Certainly.

Glenn: Many pastors realize that folks leaving the altar of the confessions believe that they have been saved and born again but not realizing the tremendous responsibility they have of enduring to the end so that they can be saved, can be born again by a resurrection like He was so they can see and enter the Kingdom, but also receive the gift of everlasting life all eternally secure at this time. And the question comes out of out of 1 John, 1 John 5:18 says, He who is did not owe-- or born of God does not sin. Some translations go so far as to say cannot sin. Well, I think we all agree that there's only One that meets that criteria, and that puts the rest of us on the other side of the ledger, where John says in 18B, "But he who is begotten of God, keepeth himself, that the evil will touch him not." And my question is that: What did John mean when he said, "Keep himself that the evil will touch him not"? And does 1 John 5:9-- I'm sorry. 1 John 1:9 have anything to do with that? Thank you.

Doug: All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate that, Glenn. You know, Jesus prayed for the apostles, and He told Peter, He says, "Satan has desired to have you, that he might sift you as wheat, but I prayed for you that your faith fail not." And then, Pastor Ross might find the other verse for me. But in Jesus's intercessory prayer, I think it's in John chapter 17, He said, "Father, keep them that You have given me." So, it's using the same phrase from the same author.

Jëan: John 17:11.

Doug: Want to read that for us?

Jëan: Yes, it says, "Now I'm no longer in the world, but these are in the world, And I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given to Me that they may be one as We are."

Doug: Yeah. So, when Jesus is praying for the apostles that they might be kept, and he meant being kept from evil and kept from falling or being lost, and that same keeping power, you know, the Lord makes available still to those that are born again. So, you're on the right track, Glenn. That Jesus, He can't keep us from the evil one. And the Bible says greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. So, the Lord certainly can save us and keep us. Listening friends, you hear the music that just marks that we're halfway through our program. The best is yet to come. Don't go anywhere. We're going to be back. You can still call in with your Bible questions.

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Doug: Worry affects everybody differently, but it's all driven by fear. So, how can you overcome a world full of reasons to be anxious? I'd like to recommend for you my new book, "Finding Peace in a World of Worry". You'll discover a lifeline to victory, a place where you can cast your cares upon Christ and experience a serenity that isn't subject to your circumstances.

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Doug: Every year, 40,000 souls in North America end their own lives. Suicide is a terrible tragedy, and while it's difficult to talk about, we need to face it together as Christians. That's why in my new book, "Choosing Life", I share the biblical perspective about suicide, answering some difficult questions about faith and salvation along the way. And offering practical tips that should help and encourage others. Jesus wants us to choose an abundant life in Him.

Announcer: You are listening to Bible Answers Live, where every question answered provides a clearer picture of God and His plan to save you. So, what are you waiting for? Get practical answers about the Good Book for a better life today. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7:00 PM and 8:00 PM Pacific Time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now let's rejoin our hosts for more Bible Answers Live.

Doug: Welcome back, listening friends. We are live with Bible Answers Live, and if you've tuned in, this is a live, international, interactive Bible study. You can not only listen on this radio station, but we're on--well, satellite stations around the world, we're on the internet, Facebook, Amazing Facts Facebook, Doug Batchelor Facebook, YouTube, and you can even text your friends now and say, tune in, send in a question to Bible Answers live. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross and we're going to go back to the phone lines, the number of folks who are standing by with their Bible question. Allen is listening in North Carolina. Allen, welcome to the program.

Allen: Thank you, Pastors, for taking my call. My question is about when Jesus was first resurrected and Mary Magdalene came across Him and He said to her, "Do not cling to Me," in John 20:17. Well, in Matthew 28:9 the disciples came across Him and He had just risen, and they held Him by his feet and there was no--said--no saying not to touch Him in that. I was wondering why she was asked not to touch Him in particular.

Doug: Good question, you're paying attention. In the Gospel of John, John is telling about when Mary is the first to see Him, before he has ascended to the Father, and had His sacrifice declared sufficient and victorious. Then He comes back down to earth the same afternoon, and the rest of the apostles see Him, and he says, "Now, all hail." So, he tells Mary, He says, "I've not yet ascended to the Father, but go to My brethren and tell them I ascend to My God, your God, My Father, your Father." And so, she runs to tell the others and then there's an interval of time between that and when He shows Himself to the disciples, because He doesn't see to the disciples until He's in the room, if I'm not mistaken. So, it's not at the tomb, it's in the room, when they're the rest of the-- let me see here, backing up. She went there-- "So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy and ran to His disciples. And as they went to tell His disciples, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" They came and held Him by the feet." Yes, so this is later, when this happens, there's an interval. Thank you.

Jëan: Very good and good observation. Alright, next call that we have is Jerry listening in Texas. Jerry, welcome to the program.

Jerry: Good evening, salaam alaikum.

Doug: Evening.

Jerry: This is Jerry from Texas, and I have a Bible question on Revelation 4:4. There are couple different scenarios that different pastors attribute to. One Bible commenter says that the 24 elders on the throne. This one Bible commentators said they were from-- the beings from unfallen worlds, and the other half of the equation, some of the pastors say, it was some of the saints who were risen with Christ. Can I have your guys take on it?

Doug: I think Pastor Ross and I on the same page that these are likely representatives from unfallen worlds, that it-- because you read in Job, where it says there's a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. Well, that's before the resurrection in Matthew 28. And so, he had some kind of concourse with the leaders in heaven, it's not in heaven, it's somewhere. Because Satan is not allowed to go to heaven, and it says Satan came among them. So, I think the-- probably the 24 elders, in the same way on Earth, you know, Solomon and David often had 12 or 24 judges around them. That they're modeling what happens in heaven, where God has leaders from unfallen worlds.

Jëan: Yeah, and if you look at the context of Revelation 4 and 5, Revelation 4, you have a description of the heavenly throne room, and God is seated upon the throne, God the Father. He talks about the 24 elders surrounding the throne. Jesus does not appear until chapter 5, and then He appears before the throne as the Lamb, as it had been slain. So, in chapter 4, you got a picture of heaven, this is even before the ascension of Jesus. And those who were resurrected at the time of Christ's resurrection, well they ascended up with Jesus when He ascended, and there were the 24 elders already, prior to this in heaven. And of course, Isaiah has an interesting verse, this is the Old Testament, Isaiah 24:23 says, "The Lord shall rule before His elders, gloriously." So, we even have a reference to the elders in Isaiah, in the Old Testament, and then as pastor Doug mentioned, the sons of God or the representatives of these unfallen worlds. So, I think there's good evidence to support the idea that there are these representatives from these unfallen worlds, and the devil claimed to be the representative of earth. But, of course, now Jesus is our representative in heaven.

Doug: So, these are UFOs the government’s hiding from us, these unfallen worlds. That's a different question, we're not going to answer that.

Jëan: Investigation on that. Alright, thank you, Jerry. We got Mark in Hawaii. Mark, welcome to the program.

Mark: Thank you for taking my call. Just got a quick question on Revelation 13:11. The interpretation I have heard is that this beast starts out with the attributes of the lamb and at some point, it transitions to the attributes of the dragon with a simple reading of the track, excuse me, the text, it seems to indicate that it's more like a dual nature. That it always had the horns like a lamb and speak like a dragon. Is there something in the translation from the original text that would indicate it had a changing nature rather than a dual nature?

Doug: That's a good question, and I don't want to pretend that I know on the tip of my tongue what it's saying in the original Greek there, because I haven't looked at that in while. My thought is that the way Revelation is written, Pastor Ross might have more on this. The thought is that the way Revelation is written, things can happen in sequence, where you read it in one verse, but the space between the first part of the verse and the second part of the verse could be hundreds of thousands of years. So, when it says it speaks two horns like a lamb, and many believe that this second beast is representing the United States of America. They'd began with lamb-like qualities: foundation on the Word, wanting to have a city on a hill, freedom of-- you know, ultimately, freedom of religion, and the two horns were a country without a king and a church without a Pope. So, there was freedom of religion and freedom of citizenship. And--but it ends up speaking like a dragon in the end, where it turns from those things.

Jëan: Yeah, and if you look at the specifics there, it talks about speaking like a dragon and we know a nation speaks by its laws. So even though it has these two lamb-like principles, as Pastor Doug mentioned, which sort of formed the foundation of the government of the United States. The time comes when it passes laws that actually contradict the foundational principles of religious freedom and personal freedoms that we find. So, it's a transition. It begins like a lamb, but it makes laws, at some point that reflect more of the dragon, that restricts religious worship. You know, we do have a study guide called "The US in Bible Prophecy," and it gets into the details of this. We'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. Again, you can just dial #250 with your smartphone, say Amazing Facts or Bible Answers Live and ask for that study guide, it's called, "The US in Bible Prophecy."

Doug: In fact, Pastor Ross, I think we also have a brand-new magazine with a similar title. Is it America--

Jëan: "America in Prophecy" I think it is.

Doug: Yeah, so, we don't want to confuse you, but those of you who may have already seen the lesson, you may check out the magazine.

Jëan: And the magazine, I think is bigger and it's got--it's expanded, it's a great read, great study. So, take advantage of that. Alright, next caller that we have is Thomas, listening in Oklahoma. Thomas, welcome to the program.

Thomas: I have a question for Exodus 35:3 and they say, "Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day." But in my church, they say, we can--do light a fire on the Sabbath day, but this verse says otherwise.

Doug: Yeah, well, of course, I believe what the Bible says. Now, when it says kindle a fire, that doesn't mean you can't have a fire. Keep in mind, the children of Israel going through the desert, they didn't really need a fire for heat. And they didn't need a fire for cooking, because God told them, He says, "Bake what you're going to bake, and boil what you're going to boil on Friday." And He said, "I'm going to give you twice as much manna on Friday, so you can rest." Kindling a fire for us right now, I mean, if you turn on your stove, there's really no work or labor involved. Kindling a fire is different from having a fire. If you started a fire on Friday and you kept it burning, you're not kindling a fire. Kindling a fire was often rubbing sticks together, it was pretty labor intensive and Bible times. And so, it's basically not starting the fire. I know I heard one preacher say, oh, you can't drive to church on the Sabbath because every time your sparkplug fires, you're breaking the commandment. Well, that's not what Moses is talking about. And then, you know, there's some people, they take this way too far. And in Christ's time in Jerusalem, they had fires in their dwellings to stay warm on the Sabbath. The practice was: they'd start the fire the day before, so they didn't have to go through the labor of kindling it.

Jëan: And the practicality of that is in the desert, there's not a whole lot of wood. So, to gather wood for a fire, especially if you're going to do it on the Sabbath, that's a big job. You'd have to go out from the camp and gather what you could and all that had to be done during the week, and the Sabbath was a day of rest.

Doug: Yeah, and matter of fact, Pastor Ross, if I'm not mistaken, this command is given in connection with an experience where a man was caught gathering wood and they said, what do we do with him? So, he said, look, you know, you don't need to gather wood and kindle a fire on the Sabbath, it's kind of the two together.

Jëan: Okay, very good, good question. Lee, in Texas. Lee, welcome to the program.

Lee: Yes, sir, hi. My question is--that is the Pope the Antichrist because he speaks for the papacy? I know he's the man of sin, but does he change into the Antichrist being that he is speaking for the papacy?

Doug: Well, now before I answer that question, I want to preface and say: All the Protestant reformers, and listen carefully, not only Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, John Knox, George Whitfield, Charles Wesley, they all said, and what's the-- Wycliffe, Kramer, and many of them were Catholic priests as they started. They all said the office of the Pope is the Antichrist, and what they meant was when you start putting a man in the position of God or saying that he is the vicar for Christ on earth, which is really the work of the Holy Spirit, they believed that was the Antichrist. So, when we say this, I just want folks to know-- some folks are shocked and that's what Protestants traditionally taught, and we still believe. Now, there are-- don't misunderstand, listening friends, there are just wonderful, spirit-filled, lovely people in every church, including the Catholic Church, but the system that evolved into the present day Roman Catholic Church is anti-Christian in its teachings. And that was the-- what caused the whole Protestant Reformation.

Jëan: And you know what's interesting Pastor Doug, the official position of the Roman Church or the Catholic Church, as far as their doctrines go, they haven't changed. Now, of course, attitudes have changed towards Catholicism, and you find even Protestants now reinterpreting some of their original understanding of prophecy to kind of soften what they believe. But as far as the actual Catholic Church, they haven't changed their position and their understanding of the role and the significance and the importance, the infallibility of the Roman Pontiff, or the Pope, so it is interesting when you look at that history.

Doug: Now, there was something-- I think I found it just in time. Folks might be shocked to know that the first person, or one of the earliest people who said that the Pope-- the office of Pope was Antichrist was Pope Gregory the Great. And so, here--and he lived 540 to 604, he was the last four of the original Doctors of the Church. He wrote, "I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself the universal bishop or desires to be so-called, in his pride, is a forerunner of Antichrist. That's an exact quote from a Pope. So, this is not a new statement. Some people are shocked, always, here for the first time.

Jëan: And during some of the history of the Roman church, there were times when there were conflicting Popes claiming to be the true Pope.

Doug: They're calling the other the-- they're both saying the other was the Antichrist. Jëan: Alright, well, thank you, Lee. You know, we do have a study guide that talks about this, and it's called, "Who Is the Antichrist?" and we'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747 and you can just dial #250 on your smartphone, say Bible Answers Live, ask for the study guide, it's called, "Who Is the Antichrist?" We've got Andrew listening in Kansas. Andrew, welcome to the program.

Andrew: Hello pastors.

Doug: Hi, thanks for calling.

Andrew: So, my question is the angel--who was the one that was in the pillar? The pillar of cloud in the wilderness, on that night He was a pillar of fire? Was that God the Father or was that God the Son?

Doug: Well, typically it is God the Son, of the three members of the Godhead, it is God the Son who is the link or the mediator between God the Father and man. And if you read in 1 Corinthians chapter 10, Paul, describing the wilderness experience, he says Christ was the Rock and Christ is the bread, Christ is the water, and so, we believe that it is Christ, you know, God the Son that was in the wilderness-- the word angel there just means messenger, of course, God-- Jesus is not an angel, like a cherub or seraphim, Jesus is God the Son, but uses the word, "the angel of the Lord" or "the messenger."

Jëan: And you know another story that connects that is, Jesus said to Nathaniel, He referred to the story of Jacob, when he saw the ladder coming out from heaven. He says, after this you shall see angels ascending and descending upon the Son of Man. So, the ladder that connected earth and heaven, Jesus, likened to Himself. So, He is the intermediate between heaven and earth, and again, Jesus said, no man has come down from heaven, or ascended up into heaven and come down except He, that has come down from heaven, meaning Himself. So, Jesus is the one that came down from heaven and has connected earth and heaven.

Doug: Another good verse on that is where it says the angel of the Lord met with Joshua, and He says take the shoes off your feet because this is holy ground, and he worships. Well, you only worship God, you don't worship an angel.

Jëan: Okay, very good. Next caller that we have is Steve in Oregon. Steve, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Steve: Yes, thank you for taking my call, and I'm calling in reference to chapter 10 in Daniel, which it says that Daniel had been in prayer for, like, 21 days, and the angel was delayed by the prince of Persia and his response to come to Daniel. And just who was the prince of Persia and how can one of God's angels be delayed by three weeks?

Doug: Yeah, it's--well when it says the prince of Persia, keep in mind what you're dealing with here is the spiritual powers behind the rulers. There are spiritual battles that we don't understand. You read in Revelation 12, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought. There is some striving that goes on, you know, even Paul said, "We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against spiritual principalities and powers." And when Daniel was praying for the Persian king to now release God's people according to the prophecies of Jeremiah, that after 70 years they'd be allowed to go home. The devil was influencing the prince of Persia and there was a battle going on, maybe between his advisors, and it shows that that Christ, sometimes He's pictured as Michael, He was striving with Satan, who is manipulating the prince of Persia. You can also see this in Ezekiel where it talks about the devil and it talks about the king of Tyrus, and Isaiah talks about the king of Babylon. Then we realize it's the devil behind the king. And you go to Revelation 12, and it talks about the dragon wanting to destroy the baby, and we realize that it was the devil working through the Roman or the--King Herod. So, it's the devil often working through these powers. And that's what's happening here in Daniel 10, there's a battle going on.

Jëan: And God doesn't force the will of these people using the freedom to choose. It's an interesting story here, that the prince that's been referred to is really Cyrus the king, and he was prophesied by Isaiah to be the one that would allow the Jews to go back and start rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem. And of course, the devil didn't want that. And so, he was doing everything he can to try and get Cyrus not to do it. And yet, on the other hand, you have Daniel, who probably pointed out to Cyrus, here's a prophecy 150 years before you were born that mentions you by name. There was a real controversy taking place. Would he allow them to go? And maybe that's what's referred to here in the verse too.

Doug: Yeah, and I think it's the same period of time, it says Daniel was praying during that time. So, in answer to his prayers, Michael prevailed.

Jëan: Alright, next caller that we have, he's calling from Spain, we got Emmanuel. Spain, listening from Spain. Emmanuel, welcome to the program.

Emmanuel: Thank you, pastors. Good evening.

Doug: Good evening.

Emmanuel: My question for you is if a church that gets certain doctrines wrong can have the presence of the Holy Spirit in it. For example, if they get dietary laws wrong or the days in which they want to keep the Sabbath wrong. Can the Holy Spirit be in that church?

Doug: Yes, is a quick answer. Now, what I'm saying is, if God's Spirit is only going to work in and through a church that is a perfectly correct in every doctrine, then I can think of a lot of times in history when God's Spirit has worked through the church, in spite of its imperfections. I think God's Spirit was working through the Protestant reformation, but you know, they didn't have everything right. They probably didn't understand some of the laws of the Bible about diet or even the Sabbath. But they were coming out of great darkness, and times like this, it says in--what is it, Acts 17:30? "At the times of this ignorance, God winks at." And the apostles, you know, when Jesus breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit," that's in John, before his death. And then even after the resurrection, they say, "Jesus, will you now establish the kingdom?" They didn't understand the nature of His kingdom completely, but he still gave them the Holy Spirit and they continued to learn. When He poured out the Holy Spirit, they didn't understand the gospel was supposed to go to the gentiles and that took a little struggle. So, I do think that God's Spirit works best when we're fully committed to follow the light that we have. And I don't think God's Spirit restricts us for what we don't know, it's when we reject what we do know.

Jëan: And I think that's a good point, Pastor Doug, you know, if the church knowingly or openly--let's say a pastor leading the church, who knows the truth and yet they turn away from the truth, then they're living in open defiance against God. But if folks don't know the truth, or at least an aspect of the truth, and they're living up to all the light of the knowledge or understanding that they have, you know, they're sincere, then God can kind of work through them, but if you know the truth and you turn away from it, and I think individually, as members of churches, we want to make sure that the church that we're a part of, they're living up to all the truths has been revealed in the Word of God as far as we can find, as far as we know. If we come to conclusion that something's wrong in the church, they're not following the biblical principles. Well, then we need to find a church that is actually close to the Word of God, as close as possible. You know, we do have a study guide or actually, it's a book, talking about this. It's called, "The Search for the True Church." How do we find a church that is Bible based? You'll be interested to find out that the Bible tells us how to do that. Just call and ask 800-835-6747, we'll send you a book called, "The Search for the True Church." Dial #250 on your smartphone and we'll send that out to you. Next caller that we have, let's see. We've got Sherry in Kentucky. Sherry, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Sherry: Hi.

Doug: Hi.

Sherry: I have a question that's been really bothering me. In the days when we're--later on during the tribulation time, when we're not able to buy or sell--I'm debt-free right now, and I own my home, but I have to pay my taxes every year. What am I going to do? Am I going to be without a home?

Doug: Well, I wouldn't worry about that because I think that you--I've heard some people say, well I'm going to prepay my taxes so they can't take my home away during that time. I think the--when it gets to the point where they're using buying and selling to manipulate us, it's going to pinch us a lot sooner at the food basket than home taxes. And so, I think that, you know, we're going to probably be driven to places where we need to, you know, maybe grow some of our own food. There will be trying times whether they're going to say we're taking away your home because you didn't pay your taxes or something like that. Usually, a person can go two or three years without paying their home taxes before they foreclose on that. I mean, but who knows what kind of laws. You look at what happened in Nazi Germany to the Jews, and they basically threw all rights out the window, so it didn't matter whether they paid their taxes or not. So, I'm not trying to worry anyone, I'm just saying that when it gets rough like that, there's probably nothing we can do other than making sure our faith is strong to preserve us.

Jëan: And don't forget that the Bible does promise us that during that time of trouble, your bread and your water will be sure. So, God will provide for His people, just as He did for the Israelites with manna in the wilderness, provided for Elijah during a famine that was in the land. God will take care of His people and as Pastor Doug said, I think the most important preparation we can do is heart preparation, and then the Holy Spirit can guide us when that time comes.

Doug: Amen.

Jëan: Alright, thanks for your call. Let's see, we've got Mbuto listening, Mbuto.

Mbuto: Yes.

Jëan: We've got about a minute.

Mbuto: Hello pastors, I have a question here on Matthew Chapter 17, where Elijah, and Moses appeared to him when he was on a mountain. So, my question is--so I know that when somebody dies, they don't come back to us and talk to us. But then, here we see Moses, who had already died in Old Testament, also appeared to Jesus here and Elijah, whom I know that was taken to heaven. So, I just wanna know, like, what-- does that affirm that we can talk to people-- after they die, they can still come back to us and talk to us? What does this mean?

Doug: Yeah, well, let's do our best to answer that. Just have a few minutes. But, generally speaking, of course, we shouldn't communicate with the dead, or try to. Isaiah 8 tells us that that's a sin. We know there's an exception, most of the dead are sleeping, but Moses and Elijah are an exception, Moses in particular, Elijah never died. So, we're out of time for that. Don't go away, friends, we're signing off for our satellite listeners. For all the rest of you, stay tuned. We're going to do rapid fire Bible questions in just about 30 seconds when we come back.

Announcer: Thank you for listening to today's broadcast. We hope you understand your Bible even better than before. Bible Answers Live is produced by Amazing Facts International, a faith-based ministry located in Granite Bay, California.

Jëan: Hello friends, and welcome back to Bible Answers Live. We want to thank you for your e-mail questions that you've sent in, and we're going to take as many questions as we can in the next few minutes. If you have a Bible question that you'd like to e-mail to us, just simply, and we'll try to answer your question online. Pastor Doug, here's the first question. Becky's asking, what kind of stone did Moses use, when God commanded him to write the Ten Commandments again?

Doug: You know, the Bible doesn't specify. Based on some visions of the throne room of God, and I think it's out of Ezekiel, talks about like a sapphire stone. And so, some of wondered if it was some kind of a blue sapphire stone, since blue is a color associated with the law, that children of His were to put borders of blue, but it doesn't specifically say, that's kind of a beautiful guess. We don't know what it was, and we've got some granite Ten Commandments in our church someone made for us, they look very nice.

Jëan: Alright, another question that we have, and here's the question Wilma is asking, is the Nazi regime's attempt to exterminate the Jews found in Bible prophecy?

Doug: Well, there is a prophecy in Deuteronomy 28. It's called the prophecy of the blessings and the cursings, and blessings were promised for God's people in obedience, cursings were, you know, forecast in disobedience. And so, this is not just for the Jewish people, but for every believer, everyone that knows the Lord, and so, you know, some have wondered if you know the terrible trials that came on the Jewish nation during the Nazi regime, if that's something that Moses was alluding to. Now, it is true that Moses foretold, he says, your enemies will surround you, they'll besiege you, and that happened several times in Bible history, in the Old Testament, but does that reach beyond to, you know, 1939 or 41 in Nazi Germany? Some could speculate that, but I think there's a principle that for any people, when we turn away from the Lord, we're, you know, there's trouble and curses that often come.

Jëan: Okay, in the next 30 seconds. Do we have to be perfect to go to heaven?

Doug: Well, yes, but we get that perfection through Christ. Yeah, Jesus said that, you know, He can transform us and make us new creatures. He gives us His righteousness, through justification and then in sanctification, He teaches us to walk in a newness of life. You can have that experience, friends. We hope you tune in tomorrow, not tomorrow, next week for more Bible questions. God willing, we'll be together then. Keep us on the air and go to

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