Sheltered Under Eagles Wings

Date: 05/15/2011 
In the spring of 1977 in Northern Wisconsin, several ornithologists were making an aerial survey of all eagle nests. As they flew over one particular nest, they noticed that the eagle sitting in it was dead.
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an Amazing Fact? In the spring of 1977 in Northern Wisconsin, several ornithologists were making an aerial survey of all eagle nests. As they flew over one particular nest, they noticed that the eagle sitting in it was dead. A few days later the men visited the same nest from the ground to determine what had happened. When they arrived two adult eagles began circling over head and scolding them. They could see there was at least one young bird alive in the nest. Now the men were really confused. Climbing the tree to get a closer look they found the mother eagle had been dead for nearly a month yet there was a very healthy chick sitting in the nest. How could this have happened? Upon further investigation it became clear lightning had struck the tree and a portion of the top had literally exploded when the bolt struck.

Large limbs from the tree were strewn all around. Evidence from the burn mark showed that when lightning struck the tree the electric current went through the mother running down the trunk to the ground. By some miracle the young bird had survived while the mother had been killed. Evidently during the fury of the storm the mother stretched out her wings to protect her chick. Soon after her death the father had been able to recruit another mate to help with the very demanding task of feeding a growing eaglet. What a perfect example of the love of Jesus, that He has for us. He was willing to spread out his protective wings and to take our debt to save us. Stay with us friends we’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Welcome to Bible Answers Live brought to you by Amazing Facts Ministries. Are you looking for a clear, concise answer to your most challenging Bible questions? Maybe you’re struggling to understand difficult passages of scripture. If so you’ve come to the right place. Join us now as we open God’s word to discover His will and find honest, practical answers to your Bible-related questions. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question call us Sundays from 7-8pm Pacific Standard Time at 800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 800-463-7297. Now let’s join our host, author, speaker and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: We have lines open. Do you have Bible questions? Get a pencil you can write down the number 800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 800-463-7297. Right now is a good time to pick up the phone if you’d like to get your Bible question on tonight’s live broadcast. That’s, one more time 800-463, free phone call, 463- 7297 and my name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor John Ross: My name is John Ross. Good evening listening friends, Pastor Doug. Before we go to the Bible let’s start with prayer. Dear father once again we thank you that we have this opportunity to study your word. We know that the Bible is your book and we want the Holy Spirit to guides us so that we can have a correct understanding. So we invite you to be with us here in the studio, be with those who are listening wherever they might be. For we ask this in Jesus’ name Amen!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Amen!

Pastor John Ross: You know Pastor Doug, you spoke about that eagle that willingly sacrificed his life in order to protect the life of its baby and you know what a neat illustration that is of Christ and His sacrifice in order for us to live.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Amen! You know there is a scripture that reminds us of the love of an eagle for its young. God compares Himself to an eagle in Deuteronomy 32:11 and it’s also in verse 12. “As an eagle stirs up her nest, fluttering over her young, spreading abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings, so the Lord did lead him. Speaking of the people of Israel and even Jesus talks about a hen protecting her chicks when he was speaking of the prophecy connected with the second coming. About to share those actually in Matthew 23:37 “He wept over Jerusalem and He said Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem. Thou that killeth the prophets and stone those that are sent to thee. How often would I have gathered thy children together even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings and you would not?” You know the Lord is also calling each of us friends. He wants to spread out His wings and to spare you from the storm that is coming and that He, Christ has taken the punishment for sin but we must place our lives in His hand and receive that new heart that He is offering. You know a lot of people know that this world is not going to last forever. We see the signs of the times and the evidence of prophecy being fulfilled is on every hand and while we don’t know the day and the hour of His coming, we do know Jesus is coming. Now having said that Pastor Ross I feel impressed, I need to address a real concern. There is at least one other radio program I know of where someone is setting the date for Christ coming. I’m thinking about a week from this live broadcast.

Pastor John Ross: May 21st is the date I believed.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And you know I would just have to respectfully disagree with what I think is a convoluted formula for arriving at that date. I don’t see it either in Bible prophecy. I don’t see it in Bible calculations but what really concerns me is Christ’s very clear that no man knows the day or the hour of Jesus coming and we shouldn’t be predicting that. Christ warned there will be false Christ and false prophets. But I heard in the news just today that there is people around the country that are taking their life savings and liquidating it, so that they could put posters up and advertise this date for judgment day on May 21st. And I do think the coming of the Lord is soon but I think that I could say was some confidence based on the Bible. It’s not going to be May 21st and so dear friends don’t fall for this please. If you know somebody, any of our listening friends, if you know somebody who’s been caught up and trapped with this vortex of excitement about this date. I really fear how discouraged they’re going to be on the 22nd of May and I just want to give you a suggestion right now. There is a message that we specifically prepared regarding this error that you can link people to. If you type in, just go to Google or Yahoo and type in setting dates for Christ’ return, you can put in Batchelor if you might get some other websites or things but if you want to see a recent message we delivered anyone can watch it for free setting dates for Christ return and we have a lesson on that as well.

Pastor John Ross: You can also go to the Amazing Facts website and if you go to there is a little search bar, you can type in there setting dates and I think the first link that comes up on the Amazing Facts website is the sermon that you preached.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s right. Yeah just go right to the Amazing Facts website. It might be easier. I just know that we’ve got a library of couple of hundred of sermons there and I don’t want people to get lost in searching for that. But you really need this information and we think there’s compelling evidence from the Bible that this is not the date and this is not the way it’s to be done or it’s going to happen and I just… My heart breaks for couple of reasons. It’s dangerous when Christians begin to prognosticateand sets date for Jesus’ coming. First of all because it creates an artificial excitement among believers that then is followed by a corresponding depression when it doesn’t happen. And secondarily the world then becomes hardened in their unbelief and find it easier to mock Christians and doubt the Bible. They’ll say, “ Oh these Christians they keep setting dates.” Well Jesus told us not to do that. So those who are doing that are drifting from the Bible. Please again go to the Amazing Facts website. Just type in the search bar setting dates. It will take you to the recent message addressing this problem and we also have that free study guide.

Pastor John Ross: We do. We have a study guide dealing with the second coming of Christ and the study guide is entitled “The ultimate Deliverance”. “The ultimate Deliverance”. To receive that study guide give us a call on our resource line. That’s 800-835-6747. That number again is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the Amazing Facts study guide entitled “The Ultimate Deliverance”. Well Pastor Doug we’re ready for the phone lines.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay let’s who’s next.

Pastor John Ross: Our first caller this evening is Darren and he is listening from Arkansas. Darren, welcome to the program.

Darren: Good evening, thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good evening Darren, How can we help you tonight?

Darren: Yes sir. I have a question. First of all I was just wondering if you all when you answer if you could speak up. I know you all have problems sometimes hearing callers in and we’re having trouble hearing you tonight. Here my mother and I are sitting together and we’re looking through some scriptures and on our cell phones. It’s kind a hard to hear you when you speak. It seems like it’s really a lot better but anyway.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’ll do my best.

Darren: Thank you. The question is concerning the nature of hell and what I mean is like whether it’s eternal. We know the scriptures that relate to you know what it’s all about, what it’s for and how God uses it to bring about a purpose or His purpose whatever and then I think there’s a scripture where it says the fires of hell will eventually go out and that sort of thing. I just can’t find it and we were talking about it.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright. Well I appreciate the question and before I even answer for you or anyone listening you know and just the two or three minutes we’ve got per question we can’t really comprehensively cover a subject but we have a website called I think you even get it if you go to So there’s a lot there but just quickly if you read in Malachi chapter 4 speaking about the subject of hell it says that the wicked will be burned up, “the day comes that will burn as an oven and all the proud yea and all that do wickedly will be stubble, the day that comes will burn them up and leave them neither root nor branch.” and then there’s that verse Pastor Ross where it says that there’ll not be a coal or warm at, in Isaiah. I can’t remember the reference. In addition it tells us that the wicked will perish, in heaven there is no more pain, if people are burning forever why does Jesus say all things are made new? If there’s still sinners that are immortalized why does the Bible say the penalty for sin is death?

Darren: That’s right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: If death is really death. So I mean there’s just so much in the Bible that makes it clear that God is not immortalizing sinners. The Bible says God and God only has immortality and He gives immortality to the saved not to the lost.

Pastor John Ross: The verse you’re referring to is Isaiah 47:14 which says “Behold they shall be stubbles” speaking of the wicked, “the fire shall burn them, they shall not be delivered, they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame, it shall not be a coal to be warmed nor a fire to set before.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So, it tells us it will go out and there’s a lot of scriptures on this. We also have a lesson dealing with this subject so we can send you the lesson which is “Is the Devil in Charge of Hell”.

Pastor John Ross: To receive that study guide call our resource line. The number again is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide Darren, “Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?” or for anyone listening the website is Doug is calling from Sacramento listening in KFIA. Doug welcome to the program.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: More than one Doug in Sacramento evidently. Hi Doug and your question tonight?

Doug: Hi Pastor Doug! In Revelation 21:8 the cowardly can you explain to me what cowardly would that is?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well I think in the King James, the New King James says the fearful and the unbelieving. You know that confuses the people because we need to fear God but God does not want to live us in fear. Those that don’t live by faith live by fear. Do you know the story Doug in the Bible about Gideon? There were… Gideon had an army that was going to go fight the Midianites and the Amalekites and his army God says was too big. He had two groups and his army that unqualified them. One group was the fearful. All of those that were afraid we’re told to go home and there was another group and that was the reckless or the full hearty. God doesn’t want us to tempt him. Some people say, “I got faith and jump off buildings. He doesn’t want us to be fearful and he doesn’t want us to be full hearty. He wantsus to have faith but He also wants us to use our brains and to plan. And so here once we’re talking about the fearful, those who don’t believe that God can give them victory. He can’t save them. We need to believe. To him that believes all things are possible and so I think that’s what He’s talking about. You noticed that it says the fearful and unbelieving. It puts fearful and unbelieving.

Doug: Right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Together.

Doug: Yes. So will I have a chance to witness to somebody? I get this cowardly feeling, you know. I don’t want to feel like that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, sometimes the devil will try to scare us and I don’t want you to think that if you get scared out of witnessing to somebody that means you’re lost because I’ve gotten scared out of witnessing to people many times. You think about saying something and you don’t want to be a skepticalor you don’t want to embarrass anybody and so you chicken out. I’ve done that many times.

Doug: Right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know, you just pray for courage and then ask God to give you another opportunity and you…

Doug: Yeah.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Know it’s amazing how many wonderful things happen. And it doesn’t mean every time you witness someone’s going you know, get on their knees and accept Christ. Sometimes you’re sowing seed and you’re just planting thoughts on a person’s mind.

Doug: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I talked to a person this weekend and he said someone ask them a question that they couldn’t get out of their mind and ten years later they saw one of our programs and then they got baptized and accepted the Lord. But that first original question this other person didn’t even know that seed had been just germinating.

Doug: Yeah. Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So you can plant seeds and just pray to God like you’ve got courage. Okay, Doug?

Doug: Okay, thanks pastor.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright. God bless you. Have a good evening.

Pastor John Ross: Our next caller is Giddo and he’s calling from New Jersey. Giddo, welcome to the program.

Giddo: Yeah. I want to ask is it possible for a person to commit unpardonable sin and then ask His forgiveness and be rejected by God?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, let me first ask you what do you think the unpardonable sin is.

Giddo: Well, I wish you know, I was taught that unpardonable sin is really reject that God’s is [inaudible 00:15:41]you guys have said it’s you make like… Something like if you keep ignoring the Holy Spirit, if you do something severe not just you know, basically lost your salvation.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah if a person grieves the way of the Spirit and it’s usually by perpetual resistance and God’s very patient that eventually the voice can grow cold. Now to understand the unpardonable sin, look at examples in the Bible. We don’t have to guess what this means. There was a king in the Bible, the first king of Israel, his name was Saul. He was filled with the Spirit. He was a good man when he was first called. He was humble. But then he became proud and he started disobeying God’s prophets and he continued for years. I think he reigned forty years. Finally at the end of his life, God wouldn’t speak to him anymore. He went to a witch and he grieved away the Holy Spirit. He finally fell on his own sword because you know he just grieved away the Spirit where he couldn’t hear the Spirit’s voice. Then you got Judas who walked with Jesus for three and a half years and saw the miracles and heard Christ’s teachings. He saw His face and knew He was a son of God and he resisted day after day the pleading of God’s Spirit on his heart. He finally betrayed Christ and he went out and hung himself. You noticed people that commit the unpardonable sin the devil discourages them so they end up dispatching themselves. But it didn’t happen in either case with one sin. It happened where one sin became the final straw that broke the camel’s back. But it was over a period of time. They resisted the Holy Spirit.

Giddo: Alright.

Pastor John Ross: You know the Bible speaks about the unpardonable sin as being blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It is interesting when you look at the word blasphemy in the Bible, one of the definitions for it is when somebody puts himself in the place of God. So it’s the Holy Spirit that convicts us and causes us to repentance. But if we purposely turn away from the prompting of the Holy Spirit we reach a point in our experience where we don’t even want to repent, where we don’t want to turn to God. The Bible says, “It’s the goodness of God that leads us to repentance.” So a person that’s committed the unpardonable sin they really won’t have any desire to ask for forgiveness. They kind of sit their mind in going the way of the world.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now we do have a book that we’d be willing to send you that gives you more information and if you just ask for our sermon book on the unpardonable sin we’ll be happy to send that to you.

Pastor John Ross: The number to call is 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the book dealing with the unpardonable sin. The number again is 800-835-6747. You know, Pastor Doug often people asked that question, “I think I might have committed the unpardonable sin” but the very reason of that they’re asking or wondering would usually indicate that the Holy Spirit’s still working on them.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know I just remembered the name of that book is actually called, “The Last Night on Earth” but we always call it “The Unpardonable Sin.” You could also ask for “The Last Night on Earth”.

Pastor John Ross: Alright. Well, thanks for that call. We have Rebecca who is listening from Brooklyn, New York. Rebecca welcome to the program.

Rebecca: Hello. I’ve just seen a lot about being the underground world coming and I’m a Christian. I honestly believe that no man knows the day or the hour and we should just be ready. So what is your thingon May 21, 2011 and do you have any Bible verses that I could look up?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, of course we have the verse where Jesus said, “No man knows the day or the hour”. Were you on the program when we started, when we talked about this a little bit?

Rebecca: I think so.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright because I want to make sure if you go to the Amazing Facts website we’d like for you to see the whole sermon that talks about setting dates for Christ’s return. Now the dates about no man knowing the day or the hour.

Pastor John Ross: That’s Matthew 24:36. It’s the words of Jesus. He says, “But the day and the hour knoweth no man.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah and we have to be very careful about someone’s saying that they know that. For one thing why would God would give us the day and the hour? People would treat it like filling their taxes. They’d wait until the 15th of April before they got ready. Jesus wants us to be ready because for one thing whenever a person dies, their next conscious thought is the resurrection and the coming of the Lord and so the idea that some pastor has secret information when everyone is supposed to get ready. Let me tell you another reason that we know this is not the day. You know really the burden of proof should not be on us to say, “Why is this not the day?” The burden of proof should be on, “What Bible evidence do you have that it is the date?” and Mr. Camping has no Bible evidence for that. Jesus is pretty clear that things have to happen like the beast, the mark of the beast, that there’s a tribulation, a small time of trouble, there’s just so many things that still are going to happen before that great second coming. That haven’t happened. And so I think it’s very dangerous to be setting the date like this. By the way, and I don’t mean any disrespect because I think Harold Camping is probably sincere and he’s got you know, good program, a lot of good radio music and stuff on his program. Some other good programs here and I understand quite a few people in his radio station don’t agree with his date but he’s the president so you know, they just have to sort of go along. He set a date once before in 1994. So that would make a person very suspect if they’ve already been a proven false prophet once and then they set another date. And I don’t know any Bible scholar that comes up with this date. I mean even the Mayans are coming up with next year. There are nobody who’s coming up with this date except him. And so…

Pastor John Ross: You know, Rebecca you’d really enjoy that and anyone listening you’d enjoy the sermon dealing with the subject. If you go to the Amazing Facts website, and if you would just in the little search bar type setting dates and you’ll be able to get Pastor Doug’s sermon on this subject and you can listen to it for free right there online. So setting dates at the Amazing Facts website just type it in the search bar.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now, what we’re not saying, I mean, anyone who listens to Bible Answers Live knows that Pastor Ross and I think the Lord is coming soon and we need to get ready. We’re not saying to anybody, “Relax. Don’t worry about Jesus coming.” We believe that every Christian should live in expectation of the imminent return of Jesus. That’s very important. But giving people a date and saying, “Next week is judgment day” and telling people they should sell their homes and cash out the retirement and put up these posters, the money’s all being vaporized. I guess it’s helping the economy but it’s not going to help their faith. So if you know somebody that’s gotten caught up in this false sensation then please direct them to the Amazing Facts website. We’ve got a lot of Bible information on what the Bible does say about the time of Christ coming and those prophecies and hopefully it will give them some, help them make some educated decisions on that.

Pastor John Ross: You know we also have another website dealing with Bible prophecy. It doesn’t deal with this subject specifically but it gives you some of the events that need to transpire before Christ comes. It’s That’s There’ a white [crosstalk00:23:30]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It does talk about this rapture.

Pastor John Ross: It does.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

Pastor John Ross: Kind of dealing with some of the events associated with that. Our next caller is Helen and she is listening from Arizona. Helen you’re on the air.

Helen: Yes. I just want to find out why mainly the book of Genesis and Exodus keep on repeating by God saying that, “I’m the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” and over and over again. I know He’s a God of… He had chosen Israel to spare [inaudible 00:23:59]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, that’s a good question. There were so many different religions back in the day of Abraham. The people in the land of Ur where he had come from were worshipping many different gods. But Abraham worship the one God, Jehovah where it came to be knows as Jehovah. And the teachings of that one God and the principles and the Gospel of that one God became associated with Abraham who lived it out in his life. And so it says it’s not the God of the Mesopotamians or not the God of the people of Nineveh. It’s not the God of the Egyptians. It’s the God of Abraham. You know, sometimes, Karen gets a little irritated because people say, “Oh, that’s Doug’s wife”. She says, “I’ve got a name. Do you have to introduce me as Doug’s wife?” But they say, it’s an association that’s made.” And so they’re associating the God Jehovah with Abraham who was one of His earthly followers we could see. So here you’ve got a God you can’t see. So which God is this? It’s the one that Abraham follows. If you want to find out about that God look at Abraham.

Pastor John Ross: I think it’s also significant when we refer to the God of Abraham what comes to mind is the covenant that God made with Abraham that through his seed all the nations would be blessed.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s right.

Pastor John Ross: That’s the promise of the Messiah so when it talks about Abraham’s God also we remember the covenant associated with that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Does that help a little Helen?

Helen: Yeah. But why did He have to keep saying the three names. I know [crosstalk 00:25:32]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Oh, why does He say Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Helen: Yes.Why the connection of these three names.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay because the promise that the Messiah would come through their descendants was given to Abraham, and then given to Isaac and not Ishmael and then given to Jacob and not Esau. And so the three patriarchs were also kind of like an earthly-type of the triune God that often does things in threes. And so if there was any doubt about which line Jesus was going to come through, which family tree the Messiah would come through, He came through Abraham, then to Isaac, then to Jacob which turned into a nation of twelve tribes or Israel. So after Jacob, the nation was born. So, it stops with him. So Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Israel is born, the nation is born and through that nation the Messiah came to the world. So hopefully, it helps a little and appreciate your question. We have time for maybe one more before our break?

Pastor John Ross: Alright. Let’s see we got Dawn on the phone calling for San Diego. Dawn welcome to the program.

Dawn: Hey, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Doing well. Your question.

Dawn: On the subject of divorce on Malachi 7:4. Now, my question is this, [inaudible 00:26:51] night show talk show a Bible host come on and say, “Well, you know, okay, you’re divorcing the girl and [inaudible 00:27:01] is permitted. Okay, but I find no one should [inaudible 00:27:06] what God permitted, no big deal. They may well, okay, no big deal.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now, where did Moses get divorced?

Dawn: No this thing Moses… If well, Moses said…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Oh you mean Moses allowed it…

Dawn: I’m Sorry.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You mean Moses permitted it in a law?

Dawn: Right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right.

Dawn: Right.[inaudible 00:27:30] okay, well, Jesus as well, “okay, well, I’ve come to fulfill the law and sort of work trying to work that in [inaudible 00:27:40] maybe it’s the law that God never permitted divorce. He hates divorce.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, that’s true. He does hate divorce. Now let me read the words of Jesus. If we look in Matthew 5:31 He said, “It’s been said whoever puts away his wife let him give her a writing of divorcement.” That’s according to the Law of Moses. “But I say to you, that whoever will put away his wife” and then Jesus adds a clause in here, “saving for the cause of fornication causes her to commit adultery.” In other words, there is at least one exception if someone puts away his wife except the biblical grounds that they’ve been unfaithful through violating the marriage vows. Whoever marries her that’s divorced without biblical grounds commits adultery or if you marry him who is divorced without biblical grounds, they are committing adultery. And by the way friends got a new book that I wrote. Came out last week and it’s “Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage”. If you look at the Amazing Facts website you can find out more about that. We’re going to take a break and we’ll be right back.


Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello, friends if you’ve joined us along the way, we’re back with Bible Answers Live and this is just as the title suggests a live, interactive Bible study and if you have a Bible question then give us a call at 800-463-7297 and we want to remind our friends there’ve been a lot of questions because a prominent radio host within network is telling everyone Jesus is coming in about a week on May 21st and some dear folks are selling everything and quitting their jobs and making tremendous sacrifices because they believed this and it’s concerning us because we think a lot of people are going to be discouraged and the Bible tells us, “no one knows the day and the hour” and based on everything we know about prophecy Jesus is not coming May 21st. And so we believe He’s coming soon. But you can’t set a date and things still have to happen that haven’t happen yet. If you know any friends who are getting caught up in this fever about this particular date, you may see Billboards that say, “Judgment day May 21st, please send them to the Amazing Facts’ website. You can just type in to Amazing Facts “Setting Dates”. Go to the Amazing Facts website, type in setting dates. We have a fresh sermon that deals with this. It’s a video. Send that link to your friends of the message on setting dates for Christ coming. Again it’s Amazing Facts, type in setting dates, watch it and please forward the link to anybody you know who are getting mixed up on that. And Jesus says, “no one knows the day or the hour” two or three times in the Gospels. We’re ready for more calls Pastor Ross.

Pastor John Ross: Yes, our next caller is Cliff. Cliff is listening from New Jersey on WMCA. Cliff, welcome to the program.

Cliff: Hi. How are you? I kind of have two questions. One question is the scripture where the two women, I think it’s grinding, they do something and one will be taken, one will be left. Is that like a literal as far as the great tribulation? Is that mean literal like rapture zapping or something or that’s just like one will be saved and one will not be saved. And I forgot my other question.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, this one will take probably all my time. So that’s probably a good thing. In Luke 17:35 you’ll find it also in Matthew. I think it’s in Matthew 24. It says, “Two women are grinding together. One is taken, one is left. Two men are in the field one is taken, one is left. And Luke also I think adds that two men will be in one bed. One is taken, one is left. Those three things biblically represent a woman in prophecy is a church. Grinding at the mill means working with grain or the bread of life, the Bible. There’s two kinds of churches the true and the false. There’s two men working in the field. Jesus said, “The harvest is great. The laborers are few.” Two kinds of people are out there doing mission work in the Lord’s harvest field, true gospel, false gospel. Two men sleeping in the bed. Two kinds of people are asleep in death the dead in Christ and the others. So that’s one way that you should understand. This is, He’s using terms that show outwardly they’re doing the same thing but one has the truth and one doesn’t.

But people often misunderstand who’s taken and who’s left. In Bible times, when the children of Israel disappointed the Lord an enemy nation would come and take them away. Then Nebuchadnezzar would take them away or the Assyrians would take them away. If they were left in the promise land they were blessed. The ones who were taken away were judged. It says that the flood came and took them away in the days of Noah. They were taken away in judgment and so everyone assumes the ones being taken away are being taken to the Lord. But it doesn’t say that. It’s just saying that at outwardly there’s two people doing the same thing, one is taken away in judgment, the other is spared. When the Lord comes it’s as first gather the tares to be burned. Who’s taken away first, the taresand sothis is a very common misunderstanding. Everyone is assuming the one taken is the one taken to the Lord or raptured. It doesn’t say that. So I don’t know if that helps you a little bit Cliff or if I confused things.

Cliff: No that’s great. Thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright and we do have a booklet that we’ll be happy to send you on the second coming we mentioned earlier in the program.

Pastor John Ross: Yes. It’s an Amazing Facts study guide. The number to call is 1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide, “The Ultimate Deliverance” which deals with the subject of the second coming of Christ and there is a lot of scripture in there and kind of deals with the very verse we’re talking about. Our next caller is Michael and Michael is calling from, let’s see, Michael is in Georgia. Michael, welcome to the program.

Michael: Hi!

Pastor John Ross: Hi Michael!

Michael: I was wondering what the meaning of baptism is.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, the word baptism comes from a Greek word baptizo what it means “to immerse”. And when a person accepts Jesus, they go through like a cleansing and when they’re immersed in this water and they have faith in His sacrifice it represents that the Lord is washing them from their sins. Now, you know water does not wash us from sin, but the ceremony is very important. It’s like a marriage ceremony. Marriage ceremony doesn’t make two people love each other. It’s a ceremony that shows that they love each other and it means they become husband and wife. Baptism is a ceremony that God gives us that means that we have accepted Jesus, our sins are washed away and we are now His child, His son or His daughter. And are you thinking about baptism?

Michael: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, we have, you know we’ve got a study guide, we’ll send you. It’s got pictures in it. You’ll really enjoy it if your mom and dad will do that with you. It’s on the subject of baptism.

Pastor John Ross: It’s called “Purity and Power” and if you would call our resource line Michael 1-800-835-6747 you can ask for the study guide on the subject of baptism. Again, it’s called “Purity and Power.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And it’s free.

Pastor John Ross: And it’s free. Again the number is 800-835-6747. Our next caller is Emil and he is calling from the Caribbean. Emil welcome to the program.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi Emil! You’re on the air. Where on the Caribbean are you?

Emil: [inaudible 00:36:59]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good for you! And your question tonight.

Emil: Can you explain Ezekiel chapter 36:37.

Pastor John Ross: Ezekiel 36:37.

Emil: The 9th chapter.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now, which chapter did you say?

Emil: 36.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: okay.

Emil: Is this a kingdom that’s on earth or in heaven?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And you’re asking this is a kingdom on earth? Let me get to the verse real quick. Let me see here. In verse 36, verse 35, “And they shall say this land was desolate. It’s become a Garden of Eden and the waste and desolate ruined cities are become fenced and are inhabited. And the heathen that are left roundabout shall know that I the Lord built the ruined places and plant that which was desolate. I the Lord has spoken and will do it.” Well it certainly does apply not only did the Lord do this once or twice for his people in Israel. They’ve been carried off, they were brought back again and God restored them. See Ezekiel wrote there in the Babylonian captivity. He was actually in Persia at that time Jerusalem had been destroyed, He was encouraging the people that God would restore the places that had been destroyed by the Babylonians but it’s a fuller prophecy of how this world once it‘s destroyed by the second coming and all the cities are broken down God will then make a new heaven and a new earth so we’ve got the literal fulfillment and then the fuller spiritual fulfillment when Jesus comes back.

Emil: Thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So hope that helps. Hey it’s good to have a call from the Caribbean and thank you for staying up late there.

Pastor John Ross: Our next caller is from Lorna and she’s not too far away from the Caribbean, She’s in Orlando, Florida. Lorna, welcome to the program.

Lorna: Thank you. Thank you Pastor Doug

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Lorna: I have a question and I need an explanation on it. In the book of Isaiah 1:11-15.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Lorna: My question specifically about verses 13 but 13, 14 and 15 could you explain what it means for me in terms of what we today we are doing baptisms, sorry were keeping the Sabbath can you tell me what it is this about ? Sodom and Gomorrah can explain those verses to me please?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: l’ll do my best.

Lorna: Thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Let me read it for our listeners and first in the book of Isaiah 1:11, “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to me says the Lord. I am full of your burnt offering of rams and the fat of fed beasts. I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of Lambs or he goats. When you come to appear before me, who’s required this of your hand to tread my courts. Bring no more vain oblations, incenses is an abomination to me. The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with it. It is iniquity even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hated. They’re trouble to me. I’m weary to bear them and when you spread forth your hands I will hide my eyes from you. When you make many prayers I will not hear. Your hands are full of blood. Now the last part of the verse, “Your hands are full of blood even though you’re praying” explain why he is saying all of the worship services and all of the sacrifices and keep in mind these are sacrifices God commanded and they continue to do that for many years by his command after Isaiah. These are things he commanded but he said those ceremonies and those sacrifices are meaningless to me if you are guilty of innocent blood. If you are not you know you are going through the outward forms of religion and you don’t have the fruits of the Spirit. This is very much like the teaching of Jesus when he said, “Woe to you scribes and Pharisees because you pay tithe on your mint and your anise, your herb garden and you neglect the way to the matters of judgment mercy. They were robbing widow’s houses and they make long prayers and God said he hates that. So, if we come to church on the Sabbath and we say we’re worshipping God and we spread out our hands and we sing songs and then we go home and beat our wives. God says, “Well, look you’re not getting any credit. It’s disgusting to me when you come and you act like your worshipping me. When you’re living in hypocrisy.”

Pastor John Ross: The one with the sins that God and especially hates is the sin of hypocrisy and that was categorizing Israel at that time. There was a lot of hypocrisy taking place even in religious worship.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. They’re going to all the motions but their hearts were still wicked. That’s why he also says in the next verse, “Come let us reason though your sins be as scarlet” this is in verse 18 “let it be white as snow. Though they be red like crimson they’ll be as white wool”. So He wanted them to be obedient. He said, “If you’d be willing and obedient you will eat the good of the land. Anyway, good question. It has nothing wrong with what God had commanded in the ceremonies but those ceremonies were not substitute for a pure heart.

Pastor John Ross: Next caller is Tracy and she is calling from Vancouver, Washington. Tracy, welcome to the program.

Tracy: Hi! Thank you!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi!

Tracy: My question is can you explain to me… I have two questions. Can you explain to me what the Bible means by to be absent from the body is to be present in the Lord?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, if you read… I’ll do my best. In 2 Corinthians 5:6 He said, “this we are always confident knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith and not by sight. For we are content I’ll say rather be an absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” Well there two things that Paul’s addressing. One thing to keep in mind is everybody has a spiritual nature and a carnal nature and if were walking by the flesh, we’re not walking in the Spirit. If we’re walking in the Spirit were not walking in the flesh. So that’s one kind of basic thing in the background of this. But beyond that the physical presence of the Lord when we’re here in this world we don’t experience that because we’re in a different dimension. When a person dies their next conscious thought is the resurrection and the presence of the Lord and you find that in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 and it says, “When the Lord descends from heaven, the dead in Christ will rise “and He goes on to say “then we will be together with the Lord.” So, at the resurrection they’re then raised and were with the Lord. Now, Tracy think about this if you’re save right now okay let’s just assume you’re saved and heaven forbid you have a heart attack. You didn’t know you had a problem but there you go. It might be five more years till Jesus comes no men knows the day or the hour but for you it’s instantaneous. You’re next conscience thought is when the Lord comes and the dead in Christ rise and you’re not going to be knowing that there’s been a transition of time. So, for every believer when they die their next conscience thought is the presence of the Lord. See what I’m saying?

Tracy: Okay. I get it. I was a little confused by that. I thought it was separate because I thought you know to be… I had a friend past away recently and I was trying to comfort my friend, his wife and I was telling her you know to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and then I thought about the rapture where the dead in Christ are risen first and I thought wait a minute I’m a little confused.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well you know you’re doing the right thing in comforting your friend. You might just change the semantics a little bit and say be comforted. Their next thought is going to be their eyes will open and they’ll be in the presence of Jesus. We live in a dimension of time still right?

Tracy: Right!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: We know God can take a person into the future. That’s how he does it with prophets. He can take a person in the past and so you know here in this world we know they’re still in the grave until the resurrection but as far as that person is concern when they die there’s no consciousness of time passing for them.

Tracy: Wow. I never thought…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’ll give you an example real quick from the Bible. If you look in Acts chapter 2 when Peter is preaching at Pentecost about the death of King David, he says, “Let me freely speak unto you brethren concerning the patriarch day that he is both dead and buried and his tomb is with us unto this day.” And then he goes on to say, “David is not ascended into heaven.” Well David died about 1,000 years before Peter preached that sermon. We know David’s going to be save right?

Tracy: Right!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: This is the king that killed Goliath, godly king. Now does it feel like 3,000 years for David? We know that by Peter’s time he’d been in the grave a thousand years but it doesn’t feel like any time but Peter says he’s not in heaven yet. And what’s that verse?

Pastor John Ross: That’s Acts 2:34, “For David did not ascend into heaven but he himself, saith the lord said unto my Lord” and it goes on and quote for David said.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yup. So, even by Pentecost David hadn’t made it to heaven yet but it doesn’t feel like a thousand or three thousand years for him. When a believer dies their next conscious thought is the group resurrection of the dead in Christ and Jesus is there. So we don’t need to grieve for them.

Tracy: Okay. No one is ever been able to explain that to me.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You need our lesson, we’ve got a lesson you’ll really enjoy. People misunderstand this subject and all you’ve got to do is walked around the Christian any church graveyard and you’ll see how confused people are. One tombstone will say, “Our dear mothers now singing with Jesus and the angels in heaven” and the next tombstone will say, “Our dearly beloved mother is resting in the arms of Jesus waiting for the resurrection trumpet.” Same church graveyard but they haven’t gotten it figured out. Is she in heaven singing or is she resting waiting for the trumpet? So we’ll send you our study guide and it’s called, “Are the Dead Really Dead?” and it’s such an ominous-sounding title but it’s a good lesson. Anybody out there that has questions on this, ask for this study guide, “Are the Dead Really Dead?” and we’ve got a website Pastor Ross called

Pastor John Ross: Study guide again is called, “Are the Dead Really Dead?” and to receive it call our resource line 1-800-835-6747 or go to the website We have Robert who is calling from Palm Springs, California. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Good evening!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hey Robert I used to live there. I know where Palm Springs is.

Robert: Yup. I have read your books and your tapes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay. You know where Tahquitz canyon is?

Robert: Yes I do.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And your question.

Robert: My question is this. We know that the Bible says it is appointed unto men to live once and thereafter is judgment?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right.

Robert: We know that the Bible says in the first time that Jesus comes in the clouds even those who pierced will see him.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right

Robert: So, those who pierced are brought back at that time then they die again at the brightness of His coming.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right.

Robert: so it seems to me that they twice and raise again the last time He comes with Jerusalem after the thousand years. They’re almost raised and died three times. I don’t understand that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, the verse you’re referring to, of course you’re talking about one verse. It’s in Hebrews 9:27 and it says, “It is appointed unto men once to die” and the word there means mankind. He’s speaking in the general sense. For instance Lazarus, the friend of Jesus he died. Jesus raised him which is I guess the ultimate healing. If you’re dead you’re pretty sick and so He raised him back to life and then he died again and then he’ll be raise again when Jesus comes right? So you got several exceptions in the Bible but compared to the vast billions of humanity you can count on one or two hands those are exceptions. You know what I’m saying? So, generally speaking this verse in Hebrew it’s speaking in theological terms about mankind. It’s not talking about the rare exceptions of the high priest or the people that died that Jesus and the apostle raised again because they’ll die again. So it’s a general statement.

Robert: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: it’s appointed in the mankind generally they die once and there’s the judgment. That’s true like I said for 99.999%.

Robert: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: There are some mere exceptions. Yeah.

Robert: Okay. Got you. Okay. Well thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright thank you Robert, good question.

Pastor John Ross: Next caller is Robert and he’s calling from Buffalo, New York. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Hi, How you doing?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Very well. Is it cold there?

Robert: No, but it rained all day.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know it’s probably cold here in Sacramento than In Buffalo right now. Robert: Oh yeah.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Just wondering.

Robert: Oh yeah. It’s about thirty two degrees right now.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well were about the same and your question.

Robert: Can I ask now my question?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

Robert: Okay. In the gospel of John the raising of Lazarus.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

Robert: Guys make a big deal out of that. According to him a lot of people believed in Jesus and that Jewish said, “Hey Jesus has to go. This is it.” but Matthew, Mark and Luke don’t even mention that amazing miracle. Why is that? I could never figure that out.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well let me tell you that’s a good question. I’ll tell you the theory that I’ve accepted that I’ve heard from since scholars. I’d like to take credit for it but that wouldn’t be fair. John wrote the last Gospel. John was one of the last living apostles. When Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote their gospel Lazarus was still alive. They did not want to mention Lazarus’ name because in John’s gospel it says they also wanted to kill Lazarus because he was a living testimony that Jesus had raised him. He walked around like a billboard saying, “I was dead four days” and all his family said, “He was dead four days and Jesus raise him. We were there.” So, when the early gospel writers wrote about Lazarus, or wrote their gospels, they said, “Let’s not get Lazarus in trouble and tell that story because he is already pretty, hot topic.” John by the time he wrote his gospel like ninety A.D. Lazarus was dead and he can freely tell the story. So, John had some more freedom. John said more about Mary Magdalene too because he didn’t want to embarrassed her while she was alive and that the other writers were little more careful about, that she was caught in the temple in the act of adultery. They don’t mention that. So, here John refers to her as a woman and then he refers to her again when she washes Jesus’ feet as a certain woman. Well later it tells us in the other gospel that woman was Mary. So, you know that’s something that made sense to me that these people were still walking the earth back then and what’s his name, Lazarus might have been placed in the witness protection program because it tells you right in the gospel of John that they wanted to kill Lazarus to.

Robert: Right. You know they want him dead the second time I know.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

Robert: But I was just… Would you what did you say the date was that you’re saying the gospel of John was wrote? In the nineties?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well no John…

Pastor John Ross: Revelation was written late eighties.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah that’s what [Crosstalk 00:51:56] I’m sorry. I mean John was about ninety or ninety one when he wrote it. But it was probably written in what eighty two or something or eighty one. It’s written just before Revelation.

Pastor John Ross: It’s believed that was written from Ephesus.

Robert: Yeah. I think the whole Bible, the whole New Testament was wrote before the fall of Jerusalem but a lot of people disagree with that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: No John was probably written after the fall.

Robert: You think so? Really?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Most really. Yeah I think the gospel of John. He was imprisoned. He lived beyond the fall of Jerusalem and that was seventy A.D. John probably wrote in eighty-eighty one nor at least Revelation by then. Revelation was probably his last book.

Robert: Well I tell you what I like your theory. I heard something about that before. I just want to… if you come up with same thing so. I like what you say. I could never understand why that Matthew, Mark and Luke never get… That amazing miracle right here.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. Well you know. The gospel of John is really unusual in that he talks about things nobody else talk about

Robert: Right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It doesn’t match up with the other gospels. Hey thank you Robert. We’re going to try and squeeze in a couple of more callers before the clock strikes pumpkin.

Pastor John Ross: Okay. We’ve got Angela who is listening from Hanford, California. Angela, you’re on the air.

Angela: Hello!

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi!

Angela: My question is I’ve had to do a little bit of research about Easter and I discovered that it’s had everything to do with the fertility goddess and I’m wondering how do I approach my Christian friends to explain that these rituals and customs they are very pagan and then they have nothing to do with Jesus Christ’ resurrection? How do I approach my friends who are Christians, who are practicing this custom and this you know paganistic saints but you know they walk to love God and I don’t know they’re sort of absent from the knowledge of what’s that all behind you know?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right.

Angela: This Easter.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know for one thing.

Angela: I don’t know how to approach them.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: My suggestion is you need to be very diplomatic and tactful because first of all of course there’s going to be a lot of people in heaven that maybe did not know some of the pagan history of Christmas and some of the customs that surrounds Easter that had to do with you know everything about the bunnies and the eggs and the lilies and... You know there’s a lot of Pagan trappings connected with this spring festivals from different religion that got sort of got intermixed with Easter but especially with Easter keep in mind with Christmas they got the date all wrong. Everyone knows Jesus was not born during the winter solstice. There’s plenty of evidence in the Bible but with Easter they do have the time period of the resurrection correct. In other words, Jesus did rise during the Passover which is usually on March or April depending on when that full moon is during that time. So there’s nothing wrong with us remembering the resurrection of Jesus. There’s nothing wrong with remembering the birth of Christ. We just want to make sure the emphasis is Christ and not the Pagan trappings that have crept in. Now we do have a book that talks about that, that we could probably share with you and it’s called “Baptize Paganism.” And if you call our number we’ll be happy to share that with you Angela. Ask for our booklet on “Baptized Paganism”. You’ll enjoy that.

Pastor John Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the book “Baptized Paganism” and we’ll be happy to send that out. Well pastor Doug I’m looking at the time and I’m wondering if we have time for another call.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: We do.

Pastor John Ross: We do.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: We’ve got two minutes left.

Pastor John Ross: Let’s see if we can squeeze Roy in real quick calling from Toronto, Canada. Roy, we’ve got just a few moments. You’re on the air.

Roy: Yes Sir. Good afternoon. What I want to know about our past life. If you believe that there is body, soul and spirit and if the body has died the soul is die also because like the Bible said, “Don’t fear that man that kill the body but fear him who can kill both body and soul.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s true. Well, let’s find out what a soul is and to go back to the beginning. Let the Bible describe itself. When God first made men he took the earth, dust, clay. He pulled it together and formed this beautiful sculpture of men made inHis image but it was lifeless and God breathed the spirit of His life. It’s called the breath of life. The Hebrew word is Roa. He breathed into man’s nostrils that breath of life and man became a living soul.

Pastor John Ross: Just a quick verse Ezekiel 18:4 says, “Behold All souls are mine the soul of the father as of the soul of the son they are mine. The soul that sins it shall die.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah so it does tell us that there is a distinction between the body and the soul. The soul is the essence of who you are when the spirit is breathed into the body. Hey were just out of time friends. Want to remind everybody lot of folks are confused about the second coming. People are telling others that May21st, a week from now is judgment day. Go to the Amazing Facts website. Type in setting dates. Take that sermon we just presented. Share it with your friends. Setting dates for Christ coming. We want to spread that out and comfort and educate people. God Bless we’ll be back next week.


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