Born Again in Christ

Date: 12/11/2011 
Did you know it takes about 20 seconds for a red blood cell to circulate the whole body? And while about eight million blood cells die in the human body every second, the same number are born every second.
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. Did you know it takes about 20 seconds for a red blood cell to circulate the whole body? And while about eight million blood cells die in the human body every second, the same number are born every second. The Bible says that through the blood of one Individual, people everywhere can be born again. Stay with us. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Batchelor: Welcome listening friends, we are live and this is Bible Answers Live. If you have a question related to the word of God, we've got lines open. Right now is a good time to pick up your phone and give us a call. It is a toll-free phone call. If you've got some utensil to write with, that number is 1-800-GOD SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7292. Give us a call right now, the lines are wide open.

If you have a Bible question, that's what this program is all about. My name is Doug Batchelor. Our regular co-host, Pastor Jëan Ross, is on vacation tonight, but we've got a special guest in the studio who shares my last name. Welcome Stephen.

Stephen: Hi, I'm glad to be here.

Pastor Batchelor: Yes, Stephen has helped me out with a program before. It has been a few years ago and he's home from college, and so I recruited him tonight to help take the calls for us during our program. But as always, we're going to begin the program with prayer. Once again, if you'd like to call in, we have lines open. That number is 1-800-GOD SAYS. 1-800-463-7297 to get your Bible question on tonight's broadcast.

Let's start with prayer. Loving Father, we're very thankful for Your goodness and Your blessings. We're very thankful for Your Son that You sent, and through His blood that we can be saved from sin and its penalty. We pray Lord, that You will bless each person listening tonight. Be with us through this program. I ask that it may bring glory to You and Your name. In Christ's name we pray, amen.

Stephen: Amen. Now dad, you started this program with a topic on blood. What kind of spiritual significance do you want to tie to that?

Pastor Batchelor: You know, every cell in our body is nourished, fed and cleansed by blood. The Bible says the life is in the blood. And some people used to think the sacrifice of blood was just spiritualistic and pagan, but science has come to realize how crucial blood is. There's even blood cancers in keeping and giving and sustaining life of all of God's creatures.

Now there are some diseases--I remember reading one time that during the bubonic plague, that that was cause for one thing because it spread by these fleas that are carried by rats. They thought that cats were bad luck, and so they killed all the cats in much of Europe. Well then the rats multiplied and these fleas spread, and the plague, the Black Death, spread. And the only cure that we know now for that plague is to get a transfusion from someone who has been exposed to it, but did not die from it. Their blood actually develops the anti-bodies. Well there's only one Individual who has ever come to this world, only one Man, who has been born into this world, lived a perfect life without sinning, and grew to adulthood. Of course, if a baby dies before the age of accountability, you could say they're sinless in that sense, but He's the only one who grew to adulthood and never sinned, lived a perfect life, and He gave His blood as a transfusion for the human race. And that, of course, is Jesus.

For our friends listening tonight, if you would like to know how you could be born again, how do you get a new start? We're about to begin a new year, and this is the time of year when people are thinking about the Gift God gave in His Son. Have you thought about getting a new beginning? You can get a new beginning right now by inviting the Lord into your life. And we have a special, free, colorful, illustrated study guide that uses lots of Bible texts to explain how to get that new beginning, how to be saved from sin.

All you've got to do is call and ask for it. The title of the lesson is, "Rescue from Above", and that number Stephen?

Stephen: Yes if you want a copy of your own study guide, "Rescue from Above", call our resource number, 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: Okay, and one more thing we should mention, that if you have questions about Amazing Facts and want to know more about our television programs, our publishing ministry, our live evangelists that travel around the country, we've got a website that has tons of information. It's simply, and that will bring you to all that information. Well, with all that, I think it's time we go to the telephones Steve. Who is first in line?

Stephen: Alright, our first caller is Enoch from Orlando, Florida. Enoch, you're on the air.

Enoch: Oh hey, I'm glad to talk to you guys. My question today was, I know Jesus is coming very, very soon, but would you say that it's still possible in today's generation for Him to come sooner for particular people?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, when you "say sooner for particular people," you mean that He would somehow come earlier for a few, and then come back again later for the general population?

Enoch: Yeah, like He did for Elijah.

Pastor Batchelor: Well in a sense, He didn't really come for Elijah. He had a limousine that picked him up, so to speak. The Lord caught him up and he was brought to heaven, as opposed to Jesus coming where every eye sees Him. So you're really asking if someone can be translated to heaven, like Enoch or like Elijah.

Enoch: Yes

Pastor Batchelor: You know, the Bible doesn't rule out, if God wanted to make an exception and take someone to the Kingdom without dying like He did with Enoch and Elijah, He could, I mean, He's God. That would not be the same thing as Jesus coming. I don't anticipate that He's going to do that again because I think that Enoch and Elijah are really strong symbols. Elijah was a type of Christ. Just as Jesus went and met with the disciples to strengthen their faith, He ascended to heaven and sent the Holy Spirit. Elijah went and met with the sons of the prophets. He ascended to heaven, and then Elisha got a double portion of the Spirit. He sent the Spirit. And so Elijah's life was a type of Christ; and so that's one reason Jesus made an exception for him.

Enoch walked with God and God took him. He was a type of Christ. He was the seventh from Adam the Bible says, caught up. And we believe it's going to be, as we enter the seventh millennium, that we'll be caught up, and then we live and reign with the Lord for a thousand years. So they were like types, and there was a reason the Lord especially translated them. God could do it again, but I don't anticipate that He's going to. I think when He comes again, it's going to be the general, second coming for the whole world.

By the way Enoch, we do have a free offer that we can send you that deals with the second coming of Christ. If you'd like a copy of that, it's a study guide called, "The Ultimate Deliverance." It's called, "The Ultimate Deliverance," and just call the number.

Stephen: Yup Enoch, the number for you would be 1-800-835-6747, and that can get you your own copy free of charge.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright, thank you very much for your call, and who do we have lined up next Stephen?

Stephen: Alright, next we have Timothy from Fairburn, Georgia. Timothy, you're on the air.

Pastor Batchelor: Hi Timothy

Timothy: Hi

Pastor Batchelor: Hi, and your question?

Timothy: My question is, it wrong to make fun of Satan like it's wrong to make fun of Jesus?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, of course, you don't want to blaspheme or tease Jesus and use His name irreverently. What you might be wondering is it wrong to make fun of Satan. Well you know, Jesus did not get involved in trying to antagonize the devil. There's a Proverb in the Bible, and here's what it says: "You don't want to take a dog by the ears." If a dog is sleeping on the side of the rode or if it's eating its food, and you go over and you just grab it by its ears, well you might be bigger than the dog, but you could get bit.

Now, I think that we annoy the devil by being Christians and by preaching Christ and being good witnesses. We don't need to try to annoy the devil by just cursing or making fun of him, because that's sort of like taking a dog by the ears. And I think that Eve got into trouble, Adam and Eve, because they were testing the devil. They shouldn't have even gotten involved in talking to the devil. Jesus never did. When He cast out devils from people, He never did say, "You filthy, dirty devil" or tease him, or try to insult him in any way. Jesus said, "The Lord rebuke thee." He wouldn't talk to him because he's just an enemy.

But I have a free lesson that we can send you Timothy. It's a beautiful lesson. It has a lot of colors on it and it talks about the devil. I'll tell everyone a little secret: on the cover of this lesson, it has a picture of my hand and I've got a little devil in my hand and it says, "Did God Make a Devil?" So if you'd like a free copy of that Timothy, you call the resource number Stephen is going to give you and ask for that lesson, "Did God Make a Devil?"

Stephen: Alright Timothy, if you have a pen, your number is 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: I appreciate your call.

Stephen: Alright dad, next on our list we have Patrick from Shingle Springs, California. Patrick, you're on the air.

Patrick: Hello

Stephen: Hello, how are you doing?

Patrick: Oh pretty well.

Pastor Batchelor: Hi Patrick, you're listening here on our mothership station, KFIA, out of Sacramento. And your question?

Patrick: Well, I've been trying to figure out how to pose the question, but I'll do my best. In the end days, when we're caught in front of Christ for the Judgment and He's set people to the left and people to the right--after we know we've been saved and we've committed our lives to Christ--but if we don't get the, "You have been a good and faithful servant" even in the end, would we still be cast into the lake of fire?

Pastor Batchelor: Well there's really no middle ground. We're either 100% saved or we're 100% lost. So is that what you're really asking?

Patrick: Ah yes, I mean, you know if we go to church, we've confessed our sins, we've talked to others as a testimony to Christ, and we're studying the Bible, we're praying even til the end, if we're still doing all that, is there a chance that, because of some of our past prior to what we did up until that day, would Christ still say, "You've done these things, and yet there's a time when you did not know Me"?

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah. Well if we've confessed our sins and if we repent of our sins--confessed our sins and turned from known sin--all of the past is forgiven. That's the wonderful thing about what Jesus is doing. He says, "On the cross, I am suffering for ALL of your sins." Past, present, and even after you've accepted Jesus, He suffered even for your future sins. It's not that you're suppose to commit them in anticipation of doing that. But He'll forgive, and you can have confidence that He's accepted you, if you've genuinely repented of your sins and asked Him for that new heart. You ought to have a peace; and pray until you've got that peace and assurance.

He doesn't want us to go through our Christian experience worried and wringing our hands. Christians--we have the Gospel. It's good news. We should be a happy people! Would you like us to send you a study guide that talks about that? We've got a free study guide, it's what we began the program with that will tell you how to have that peace and assurance.

Patrick: And I thank you, and I do have that peace, and I do know--and I do believe that when that time has come, I'll be called up. I'm basing this on part of what I have read in the book, and I know it's fiction, the Left Behind series. So I was just curious.

Pastor Batchelor: Well once the Lord comes, then probation is over, and the saved are saved, the lost are lost. You know, I do have another book that I wrote that deals with some of the issues that are raised in the Left Behind series, and it's called, "Anything But Secret." If you'd like--or anyone--if you've got questions about that, dealing with the millennium, and the secret rapture and what the Bible says about that. When is the tribulation? Is the tribulation before, during or after the coming of the Lord? Then you, Patrick, or anyone who wants, we'll be happy to send you that book. It's called, "Anything But Secret."

Stephen: So Patrick, if you would like your own copy of "Anything But Secret", you can call our resource number and we'll give you one free of charge. And that number is 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright, thank you for your call Patrick.

Stephen: Next on air we have Patricia from Staten Island, New York, and she's calling from WMCA.

Pastor Batchelor: Hi Patricia, you're on the air.

Patricia: Yes, how are you?

Pastor Batchelor: Doing well, and your question tonight?

Patricia: Yeah um, in Haggai the second chapter, the seventh through the 10th verse, can you read that and tell me if you think that pertains to today?

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. So Haggai, second chapter, the seventh through the 10th verse?

Patricia: Yeah.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright here I go. "And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts." Let me stop right there because that one verse, I think, will cover your question. They had come back from the Babylonian captivity, Patricia. Haggai was a prophet during that time. They built a temple. After they came back, Solomon's temple had been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. So near the ruins of that, they built another temple. And they were concerned that that temple wasn't going to meet up to God's standards, that the Lord wasn't going to be happy with it, because they didn't have all the money and the resources and as many people as when they built Solomon's temple.

Haggai assured them that all the nations would be shaken. "And the desire of all nations," that's Jesus, the Messiah, the Desire of Ages, He will come, "... and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts." Jesus actually taught in the temple that was built during the time of Haggai. So Haggai was saying, "Don't be afraid that this temple is not going to meet up to God's expectations. I've got good news for you, that the glory of God is going to fill this temple because God's Son, the desire of nations, will come."

All the nations will be shaken during the Roman Empire; and right there in the midst of the Roman Empire's supremacy, when there were roads all through the different nations because they had conquered the civilized world, that a baby would be born in Bethlehem. He would grow up and He would teach in that temple. It had been embellished by Herod the Great, but it was basically the same temple that was built by Ezra and Nehemiah.

So this is a prophecy that really deals with Haggai's time. Now it is true, Jesus is going to come again and shake all nations.

Patricia: Keep reading it. It says--

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. "The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts. The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts," that's because Jesus came to the "latter house." The "former house" was Solomon's. The "latter house" was Ezra's and Nehemiah's temple.

Patricia: Oh.

Pastor Batchelor: "...and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts. In the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet...." Anyway, so Haggai's message was for them not to be afraid to finish building the temple. He said, "You know, you're building up your houses and My house is in ruins." So he was a prophet that really talked to them about building up the temple of the Lord.

By the way, we do have a lesson that talks about the temple and it talks about this prophecy. If you'd like to get a free copy of that, it's called, "God Drew The Plans", speaking of the amazing things that are taught through the tabernacle. Friends, anyone listening, if you'd like to better understand the Jewish temple and what its purpose was, even in its design, the plan of salvation is revealed. Fascinating lesson. It's called, "God Drew The Plans." We'll send it to you for free.

Stephen: And that number is, 1-800-835-6747. 1-800-835-6747. You can get a copy free of charge.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright Stephen, who do we have next?

Stephen: Alright, next we have Andreas calling from Hollywood, New York. She's also listening on WMCA.

Pastor Batchelor: Hi

Stephen: Andreas, you're on the air.

Andreas: Hi Pastor Batchelor. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I'm a male, not a female. I'm a born-again believer in Christ. I was calling regarding when a believer dies and an unbeliever, where do their spirits go? I'm referencing what I know from God's word. It's Luke 16, verse 19; Luke 23, verse 42; and 2 Corinthians 5, verse 6.

Pastor Batchelor: First of all, if you look in Ecclesiastes chapter 12, it says when someone dies, the body turns back to the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it. And so when any of God's creatures die, the spirit of life--when God breathed into Adam in the beginning, it says that He breathed into Adam's nostrils and he became a living soul--the spirit is that breath of life that God gives.

Now as far as a person being conscious after death, if you're saved and you die, as in the Corinthians verse that you just quoted, "To be absent from the body...present with the Lord," is that the one you're referring to?

Andreas: Yes sir.

Pastor Batchelor: When a saved person dies, their next conscious thought is the resurrection and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Five hundred years may have gone by on earth because we live in this dimension of time. And the Bible is very clear that the day of the Lord, that the Judgment day, and the resurrection are all still future. The resurrection doesn't happen as soon as a person dies.

As far as we're concerned, they're sleeping a dreamless sleep; that's why Jesus said, "Our friend Lazarus is asleep." He had been dead four days and He said, "I'm going to wake him up." Lazarus didn't say, "You brought me down from heaven" or "You brought me up from hell." Lazarus made no comment on his death experience because he was asleep.

But you quoted also two verses that are often, I think, misunderstood. You quoted from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke, chapter 16, where you've got very strong symbolism there. These are symbols, it's a parable; because obviously, it's got everybody who dies going to Abraham's bosom; and no where else in the Bible does it say anything about dead people all go to the bosom of Abraham. If everybody who died, the billions of people who are saved that died in the past all go to Abraham's bosom, it must be very large.

And it also talks about the people in heaven and hell talking to each other; and heaven forbid that in eternity the people in heaven and hell are going to be able to see and communicate with each other. The third thing it tells us that a drop of water is cooling the tongue of this rich man who's in Hades. Hades is a Greek place of torment.

So, Jesus used a lot of symbolism there. He has, actually, the poor beggar going to where the Jews go, Abraham's bosom; and He's got the rich man--all the Jews thought were children of Abraham that were going to be saved--they're going to the Greek place of torment. So Christ incorporated a lot of irony in this story. The real punchline of the story was that, if you do not believe Moses and the Prophets, then you won't be persuaded though one should rise from the dead.

It really had nothing to do with where do you go when you die. It had to do with, don't assume, because you're children of Abraham, you're going to Abraham's bosom, even though you're rich in the truth. If you don't love your neighbor who's at your gate hungry for crumbs, you may not be saved. And you might find your poor neighbor who loved the Lord, he's going to Abraham's bosom, and you're in Hades. So it's quite an amazing parable.

And then the other one is the thief on the cross where Jesus said, "Verily I say to you, today you'll be with me in paradise." There's no punctuation in the original Greek. There was no comma; and the way that reads is, "Verily I say to you today--comma--you will be with Me in paradise." Now the reason I can say that is, when Jesus appears to Mary in John, chapter 20, He says, "Don't cling to Me. I've not yet ascended to My Father." So two days later, Jesus still hadn't gone to heaven, so for the thief to be in heaven with Jesus that day (inaudible). Hey can I send you a free study? You've asked a lot of verses about what happens when a person dies Andreas. Would that be okay?

Andreas: Yes.

Stephen: Alright, if you have a pen, we can send you something.

Pastor Batchelor: It's called, "Are the Dead Really Dead?" And we'll be happy to send you that lesson just for the asking.

Stephen: And the number, Andreas, is 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: I think we have time for one more call before our break.

Stephen: Next, we have Jeff calling from Campbell, Alabama, and he is on line 9. Jeff, you are on the air.

Jeff: Hello?

Pastor Batchelor: Hi Jeff, have you got your radio turned down?

Jeff: Uh nope--

Pastor Batchelor: And your question tonight?

Jeff: Okay, question, yes sir. My question is, in Luke 21, verse 25, it's been upon my heart to know some of these prophecies that Jesus said.

Pastor Batchelor: Luke 21, verse 25?

Jeff: Yes sir.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. It says, "There will be signs in the sun, and the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring." Now on that last part there, "the sea and the waves roaring", this verse, in particular, has been quoted many times, especially during that major tsunami that happened around Christmas in 2004. And people are wondering, "the sea and the waves roaring"? Then of course, you've got the tsunami in Japan more recently. Folks are wondering is this a fulfillment of these prophecies.

But in the last couple hundred years, there have been some very interesting signs, even in the heavens. There was a day that went dark in the Northeast of the U.S. called the dark day of history. You can just read about that by typing in "the dark day of history" in Google. And then there was a day in 1833 when it showed the stars all began to fall. It was the most incredible meteor shower in history. Some wondered over the course of time, if some of these signs seemed to happen in order, that they're also a part of that.

And Jesus goes on to say that there's distress of nations with perplexity. Boy if we don't have perplexity right now and distress of nations--you might call it the air of spring, you might call it the European economic problem--there's a broad spectrum of distress. People's hearts are failing them for fear, that's the next verse, looking after those things that are coming upon the earth. So Jeff, there's a lot of concern about what in the world is going on in the world.

If you would like to know more about that, we have a study guide that talks about the signs of Jesus' coming. We offered it once tonight. We'll be happy to share it with you. Anyone who wants to know about some of the signs of Jesus' coming, ask for our free study guide. Beautifully illustrated, lots of Bible references, called, "The Ultimate Deliverance."

Stephen: And if you'd like your free copy of that, call our resource number, 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: Hey Jeff, I hope that helps a little bit. We were getting some feedback on your line. Listening friends, we're going to go to a break in just a moment. Don't forget that a lot of the information that we have is on the Amazing Facts website, Listening friends, don't go anywhere. This is Bible Answers Live. During this time, we'd like to tell you about another website that has been very popular. It's the Amazing Facts website called, Bible Prophecy Truth, and that's

Especially in this day and age, it just goes right along with Jeff's last question, Stephen. It has, you name it, the best of the best when it comes to possible things you might want to study: the seven last plagues, armageddon, death, the seven-year tribulation, Babylon, the temple of Israel, the number 666, the anti-Christ, left behind, new world order, the millennium, angels, you name it.

Friends, if you want to understand Bible prophecy and all of those hot buttons, go to Don't go anywhere, we'll be back in a moment.


Pastor Batchelor: Welcome back listening friends. This is Bible Answers Live, and we know some of you may have tuned in along the way. This is a live, international, interactive Bible study. You're invited to call in with your Bible questions. That phone number one more time is 1-800-GOD SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297. And my name is Doug Batchelor.

Stephen: And I'm Stephen Batchelor.

Pastor Batchelor: We're going to go back to the phones here Stephen. I think we told people about the website. That's or .org. Lots of resources there. Stephen, by the way, is my honorable son number three; and if you have a Bible question, he'll be taking our calls tonight. Who do we have next?

Stephen: Alright, next we have Jim from Wingate, New York. Jim, you're on the air.

Jim: I certainly am. I'd like to thank Pastor Doug for being there for us and having such a good program.

Pastor Batchelor: Yes! And your question?

Jim: And my question is, the subject of saints and their appointment. The leading denominations, without naming them, I think the first two leading denominations in Christianity have hundreds of saints appointed by mortals like ourselves. Aside from the biblical saint appointments, what biblical authority is there for us to be appointing saints?

Pastor Batchelor: Well first let's qualify what is a saint biblically, and that way, everyone understands we're on the same page. The word "saint" means "holy one."

Jim: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: We are not, as a church, to set apart any human for any special kind of worship that we're to deify, because one of the Commandments is, "Thou shalt worship the Lord God only and Him shall you serve." And we're never commanded in the Bible to pray to anybody but the Lord. We're told to consistently pray to the Father in Jesus' name. There is one example in the Bible where someone prays to Jesus, but there's no example in the Bible of someone praying to Peter, James, and John, or any other of the holy people.

God brought the Bible to us through holy men that were moved by the Holy Spirit, and obviously, there had been holy women too. But if you look, for instance--oh I just grabbed the book of Colossians for fun--if you look in Colossians 1, verse 2, it says, "To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:" You go to verse 4, "Since we heard of your faith in Jesus Christ, and your love which you have for all the saints...."

And you can go down to verse 12, "Giving thanks unto God the Father that has made us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light." It's telling us that we become saints, we become holy when we accept Jesus. All through the New Testament, it talks about the believers as the saints from the household of God.

So, that doesn't mean anyone is suppose to call me saint Douglas, or that we're suppose to be addressing each other with the vernacular that we're somehow holy in that sense; but, when we're forgiven of our sins and we're cleansed from our unholiness, "Blessed are the pure in heart. They will see God." All of us become made holy through Jesus in that sense, you know what I'm saying?

Jim: Yes. Now the typical response from church groups is that the saints are not worshiped, they're venerated, whatever that difference may be.

Pastor Batchelor: That's semantics.

Jim: That apparently doesn't justify them being declared holy saints as normal mortals, is that correct?

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, well when someone carries around a medallion of a saint, whether it's saint Joseph or saint Peter on them and they hold it for good luck, they're really giving them some kind of deification. If they call it veneration or worship, they're really the same thing.

Jim: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: It's like I said, it's playing with semantics. We are to worship only God. You don't have any of the Bible characters in the Old Testament or New Testament praying to Elijah or praying to Moses or praying to Abraham. Even when John, in Revelation--this to me is a slam dunk--when John is overwhelmed with the glory of an angel and he falls down to worship an angel, the angel says, "Don't do that!"

Jim: Um-hum

Pastor Batchelor: And you know, angels are pretty holy. They're called the saints of God too, but we're only to worship and venerate God.

Jim: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: So, I've got great respect for Peter, James, John, and the Apostles, but we're not to talk to them and pray to them and make icons and statues of them. That's the second commandment.

Jim: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: So yeah, I think you know what the Bible teaches on these things. I appreciate that question because a lot of people are wondering about that Jim. And thank you so much for your call. Appreciate it very much. Who do we have next Stephen?

Stephen: Alright. Next we have Jan from Ceres, California. Jan, you're on the air.

Jan: Good evening.

Stephen: Good evening. How are you doing?

Jan: I'm well, thank you, and I hope both of you are doing well.

Stephen: What's your question?

Jan: Thank you for taking my call. I was reading in the book of Galatians, in chapter 6, and I was looking through verses 1 through 5.

Pastor Batchelor: Okay. I just studied that this weekend.

Jan: And I'm a little mixed up with verse 2 and verse 5. If you can help put those together for me.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. Galatians 6:2: "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."

Jan: Yes.

Pastor Batchelor: When we love people, we help. Paul says, "Weep with those that weep and rejoice with those that rejoice." And all the law is summed up in loving the Lord and loving your neighbor, is what Paul says. So that's really what he's talking about here in Galatians 6. Then in, what was the other verse? You said comparing it with verse what?

Jan: Verse 5, and verse 2.

Pastor Batchelor: "For every man shall bear his own burden." You know, I think Paul is saying we need to bear one another's burdens; and ultimately in the Judgment, we all answer for our works. And so, we ought to be caring for each other here; and in the Judgment, we will all answer to God with our burden of our record, since we've been forgiven. You see what I'm saying?

Jan: Yes. That's what I was thinking that that meant, but I wasn't sure and I just wanted some confirmation.

Pastor Batchelor: Yes, because in the previous verse, in verse 4, he says, "Let every man prove his own work, then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another." Paul is also talking to the Galatians. There were a lot of the Jewish believers in Christ that were putting burdens on the Gentile believers, saying they needed to keep all of the Levitical and ceremonial laws and circumcision, and Paul said that's not the burden you're to worry about. Paul says a lot about burdens in Galatians, meaning they were being burdened with the law. But I hope you are able to tune in. I actually teach these verses on both the Hope Channel and on Three Angels Broadcasting. Oh in about a week, I think they'll be airing me teaching Galatians chapter 6, so I think that covers that.

Jan: Yes. I've been watching you. I appreciate your classes.

Pastor Batchelor: Well praise the Lord! Yes this last weekend, I just finished the last few verses from Galatians 6:11 through the end of the chapter, and I've learned a lot along the way. Appreciate your call Jan very much, from Ceres, California.

Jan: Thank you and praise the Lord.

Pastor Batchelor: God bless you. Who's next?

Stephen: Alright. Next we have Charles from Toronto, Canada. Charles, you're on the air.

Charles: Hello uh, good evening. Thank you for taking my call.

Stephen: No problem.

Charles: My question is, there's a story in the Bible that says Jesus told a rich, young person to give away all his richness and come follow Him. And the man did not and went away sad. And then Jesus said it is easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than to get a rich person into heaven. I consider myself rich. Financially, I'm doing very well. What does that mean for somebody like me? I love the Lord, but I'm also wealthy. What would happen to me?

Pastor Batchelor: Alright, do you want me to talk honestly with you for a minute?

Charles: Please.

Pastor Batchelor: And I've got my son on the program so he can bear witness to this but--

Charles: Please do.

Pastor Batchelor: my dad, at the time of his death, had just about half a billion dollars, and I--

Charles: Half a million?

Pastor Batchelor: No, half a billion.

Charles: Oh billion, oh okay.

Pastor Batchelor: He was in the aviation industry. You can look up--most people know--I'm not divulging any secret, you can just look up George Batchelor. He set up a foundation. He was a philanthropist. I'm doing what I do, not for money, I'm doing it because I love the Lord and I want to get the message out; but money can be a big distraction. That doesn't mean everyone should all do what Jesus said to the rich, young ruler.

When Jesus talked to that rich, young ruler, He actually asked Him to leave everything and be an Apostle, just like He asked Peter, James and John to leave their fishing boat. They weren't rich, but He said, "Leave it and follow Me." He asked Matthew Levi, "Walk away from your tax booth and follow Me."

He's not asking every believer to walk away from their business and follow Him because you'd have a bankrupt church pretty quick. There are, obviously, rich people in the church, because Peter said let those among you that are rich minister to the needs of others and to help subsidize the work of God. But, one of the problems with riches is we can get to where we trust in our wealth and affluence, as opposed to trusting in the grace of the Lord.

I think Benjamin Franklin is the one who said that more people are destroyed by abundance than want. So when we have a lot, we may not always feel our need. We may not pray the same way that a poor man prays when he's wanting his daily bread; and so, I think you need to pray even harder. I've got some dear friends that are very wealthy, but they're dedicated Christians. They go on mission trips; they get out there and they help build churches; they visit the orphanages; they really care and give.

Stay involved in ministry. You don't want to get separated from where the people are. Just really pray for grace; and then be willing, as God directs you, to invest in heaven because ultimately, the way you win the game of life is to have nothing left when Jesus comes, you know what I'm saying?

Charles: Nothing left financially? I, I just--

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, well think about it...

Charles: Materialistically? What do you mean?

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah when, would you like to have--

Charles: I can't give away all my wealth.

Pastor Batchelor: Well no, no, no, but I'm just saying that, if you knew that Jesus was coming in a year, how much money would you want to have in the bank when Jesus came? [Long pause] Kind of like a tricky question, isn't it?

Charles: I've never thought of that question but....

Pastor Batchelor: Wouldn't you want it all to be invested in eternity? In people's lives? And so--

Charles: I think so.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah. It's like if you've ever played a game of Uno, you don't want to have any cards left. Whoever gets rid of their cards wins.


Pastor Batchelor: So, I'm not saying just go distribute all your wealth. I mean, the Lord has to tell you how to do that. I'm not the Holy Spirit. But I'm saying you certainly don't want to be among those--you know the Bible says in Revelation the rich people that have clung to their wealth and made it a god, they're going to be casting their gold and silver to the rocks and the caves when the Lord comes. You just don't want it to be an idol. And that's, I think, the most important thing. You're asking a very relevant question we haven't had in a long time, so I really appreciate that.

You know, by the way, I've got good news for you from the words of Jesus. When Jesus said to the disciples in Matthew 19:24, "It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God," the disciples heard that. They were exceedingly amazed. They said, "What? We thought if God loved you, He blessed you with money." And then they said, "Who could be saved?" And Jesus said, "With men it's impossible, but with God, all things are possible."

Interesting thing that happens right after this. He saves a very rich man named Zacchaeus. Jesus had some rich followers, like Joseph of Arimathaea, and like Nicodemus. He had some people of affluence; of course, there's Abraham and--

Charles: But they didn't give away their riches.

Pastor Batchelor: Well when Zacchaeus came to Jesus, he said, "Half of my goods I give to the poor." Of course, he had stolen a lot of it, and that's why. But they were--Joseph of Arimathaea--they did give a lot of money away, and so they were generous. Hey I've got a study guide I'd like to offer you that talks about this. It's free Charles, and I really hope you'll just call this phone number and ask for it. It's called, "In God We Trust." It talks about faithfulness and finances for a Christian. It's called, "In God We Trust," and I know it'll be a blessing.

Stephen: Alright Charles, if you have a pen, you can get that study guide. Call this number. It's our resource number. 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: Appreciate that. And who do we have next?

Stephen: Alright. Next we have an anonymous caller, calling from New York City. Alright caller, you're on the line.

Anonymous caller: Hello?

Stephen: Hello?

Anonymous caller: Yes? Oh, thank you for taking my call.

Stephen: Well thank you for waiting patiently.

Anonymous caller: Oh yes. My question is um, how do you know if you've grieved away the Spirit? That's my question. And then if you may explain to me Matthew 12:27-32; and then Hebrews 12:17, "He found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears." I want to understand what that means.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. Let me go to Matthew 12, you're talking Matthew 12:27? Is that what you said?

Anonymous caller: Matthew 12:27, 28, 29 and 32.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. Well, in particular, I think you want to know Matthew 12:31: "I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men: but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven unto men. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it'll be forgiven him: but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven, neither in this world, or the world to come."

First of all on that verse, the sin against the Holy Spirit is when a person resists the pleading of the Holy Spirit on their heart. Every time we say "No" to the Holy Spirit, we get a little layer of a thin callous, and it can get to the place where we spiritually go deaf and we no longer hear the Holy Spirit. And if we no longer hear the Holy Spirit, you can't hear the alarm ringing, and you can't wake up. And so, we don't want to turn away or turn off the Holy Spirit when God is speaking to us.

It doesn't happen after one day or two, but over a course of time, we can grieve away the Holy Spirit. That sin cannot be forgiven, because it's the sin for which we'll never repent, because we've basically broken the alarm clock. We just don't want to hear His voice anymore.

Anonymous caller: So how do you know when you've done that, when you've grieved away the Spirit?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, if you're worried about yourself right now, I don't think you need to worry because a person who has grieved away the Spirit, usually doesn't care about spiritual things. And the fact that you're asking this question tells me that your heart is still open. Jesus said, "Whosoever will, let him come...Whoever hears what the Spirit saith, let him come." And you asked about another verse in Hebrews, when Esau sought repentance and he could not find it.

Anonymous caller: Yeah, what does that mean? That he wanted to repent but he couldn't?

Pastor Batchelor: Well because Esau had despised his birthright. Several times through his life, he basically just acted like he didn't care that he had this spiritual birthright. And finally, when the birthright was given to Jacob, then Esau said, "Oh wait, I take it back. I really want it." And Isaac said, "You know, I gave it to your brother. The Holy Spirit told me to bless him and I can't give it to you now." So even though he prayed he said, "You know, it's too late now for me to give that blessing to you." That doesn't mean that Esau had grieved away the Holy Spirit at that point, but Esau came to represent people who are carnally-minded. Jacob came to represent those who are spiritually-minded.

Anonymous caller: Yeah, I thought it meant that, in his mind, he wanted to repent, but in his heart he couldn't so he cried about it; you know, he couldn't repent in his heart.

Pastor Batchelor: We have a book that we will send you for free, if you'd like it, and it's on what is the sin against the Holy Spirit, what is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Would you like a free copy of that? We'll give you a number.

Anonymous caller: Yes

Stephen: Alright, you ready? Our number for you is 1-800-835-6747. That's our resource number. You give that a call and we'll give you a free copy.

Pastor Batchelor: "What is the Sin Against the Holy Spirit?"

Stephen: That's right. 1-800-835-6747. Alright, next we have Rudy from Washington State. Rudy, you are on the air. Hello?

Rudy: Hi, can you hear me?

Stephen: We can hear you.

Rudy: Okay. Thank you Pastor Doug. My question is very simple. I grew up being taught about unclean and clean animals according to the Bible. And one of them was eating duck or geese was considered unclean, but I can't find that anywhere in the Bible.

Pastor Batchelor: Well what you'll find probably is, I think in the King James it actually says the swan--some translations translate that bird differently--but I'm pretty sure it also says the pelican. You've got swans and ducks are in the same category, and I think they're in the same category as pelicans. They would not be among the clean fowl.

I'll tell you how to quickly figure out what are the clean fowl. Any bird that could be used as an offering in the temple, it was a foraging bird. Now the foraging birds are the birds that usually go around and peck seeds. Unfortunately, sometimes they peck things that aren't seeds, but they're the pecking birds, like the quail, pheasant, turkey--people are happy to hear that around this time of year--

Rudy: Yeah.

Pastor Batchelor: But those are the clean birds. A pigeon, you know you've seen pigeons go around, they kind of cock their heads back and forth and they strut and they peck, those are clean. A pigeon is a dove. Doves were a clean offering. They're actually in the quail family, they can be eaten. I went quail hunting one time years ago and found out there's not much meat on a quail and that was the last time I did that. It's hardly worth it. Now I'm a vegetarian.

But technically, ducks, pelicans, swans, they're more in the carnivorous category and they are unclean. I know a lot of people eat them, and even some of my Jewish brothers and sisters somehow feel that ducks are clean and swans are unclean; and I don't know how they justify that but, biblically, I don't believe they are.

Rudy: Hmm okay. Alright.

Pastor Batchelor: You sound disappointed. I'd think that would be good news (laughing)

Rudy: No, no I'm okay, I'm not upset. There's a point that I just--I thought maybe there was going to be a more precise answer according to the Bible.

Pastor Batchelor: Well you do find the word "swan" and you do find the word "pelican," and they're clearly unclean; so I'm just saying ducks are in the same category. Then the other thing I was telling you from the Bible is, you look at what the birds are that are clean. Now the distinguishing marks for the clean fish is very simple: fins and scales. For the mammals, it's a cloven-hoof and they chew the cud.

Rudy: Yes.

Pastor Batchelor: The delineation for the birds is not as clear, but we know that the clean birds were the foraging birds. Like I said, the pheasant, the turkey, quail, dove, these are all foraging birds. They are the clean birds. On the other hand, the birds that are more carnivorous, the birds of carrion, they were unclean. So I hope that helps a little.

Rudy: Yes.

Pastor Batchelor: And we do have a study guide for you if you'd like. It's called, "Death in the Kitchen" (laughs).

Rudy: (laughs)

Pastor Batchelor: I thought you'd like that. It's actually a neat book. "Death in the Kitchen." We'll send that to you.

Stephen: Alright. That number is 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747. And next we have Irene calling from Huntington, New York. Irene, you are on the air. No? Okay. I think we lost her. Alright, next we have Jerry. Jerry, you are on the air. You're calling from Jamestown, New York.

Jerry: Well thank you for taking my call. I appreciate your program.

Stephen: Thanks for your patience.

Jerry: I just have a question about the canonization process for the New Testament, and why some Bibles have other books in them, like the book of wisdom and other things, and other Bibles don't. So if you could just explain the New Testament canonization.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah of course, as you've made it clear, the Old Testament, there's really no question on. There's uniformity between both Jews and Christians on that. There are some books that are, kind of apocryphal books, that are in some Old Testaments dealing with the book of the Maccabees, but that will be in some of the orthodox, Catholic translations of the Bible.

When it comes to the New Testament books, I think it was the Council of Laodicea, where they finally agreed upon; there was no question about which books were inspired. The big question was, whether they were to include some that were of dubious origin.

Jerry: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: And so they really had this Council to say--

Jerry: What year did that Council take place?

Pastor Batchelor: Well let me give you an educated guess. I think it was like 349 A.D. If you just type in Council of Laodicea--and I'd be happy to admit if I got the date wrong--but it's in that ballpark. That's when they really settle on the Canon of Scripture.

The interesting thing is that all of the books that we have in the New Testament now were in existence before the death of the Apostle, John, and were really ratified by all the first century Christians. So there was never any question about the inspiration of the ones that are in the Protestant Bibles right now. It's the books that were added later that suddenly showed up out of nowhere. Some of them, we think that they were forged to try and prove some doctrinal point they were trying to put through. They're the apocryphal books, and they're kind of doubtful; and the book of wisdom.

That doesn't mean these books aren't to be read and they don't have any good value. I've read the Maccabees before and there's great history in there and I'm sure much of it is accurate, but it wasn't recognized as inspired by the Holy Spirit as the other historical books are. So--

Jerry: But they were, basically the Council then that [crosstalk]

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah it was sort of ratified in the Council of Laodicea. It was pretty well accepted before the Council, but they sort of made it official at that time. And if you just type into Google "Council of Laodicea, you can actually see the wording of--

Jerry: The Nicene Creed, was that around that time, or was that later?

Pastor Batchelor: I think that that was a little later, but that's different. Hey, I do have a book that talks about the Bible and the inspiration of the Bible. You know what I'd like to send you, Jerry, is our study guide. It's called, "Is There Anything Left You Can Trust?" It talks about the trustworthiness of the Bible, and that's free. Anyone out there, if you want to know more about how you can trust the Bible, "Is There Anything Left You Can Trust?" Here's the number.

Stephen: Alright Jerry, so if you have a pen, you can take down this number. 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Batchelor: And listening friends, we've just about run out of time. We've got a minute left, and Irene has called from Huntington, New York. She just wants us to comment offline on a question; and since we only have a minute, I thought I'd do that.

"How do you know the Bible is true?" That's something like the last question that we just had. You've got the evidence of it's dependability over the course of history. The prophecies of the Bible have come true. You've got about 40 different authors who, over 1,500 years, wrote from three continents; and there is such agreement that it's obvious it came from that one Spirit. And it is true.

Hey friends, we're out of time for this week. We'd like to talk to you more, but you have to do it through our website. It's Look forward to hearing from you next week.


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