Date: 12/14/2003 
Geckos are small insect-eating lizards that have an almost miraculous ability to scurry up walls and to stick to ceilings. Aristotle, the noted philosopher, even mentioned the amazing climbing abilities of geckos in the fourth century B.C.
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Geckos are small insect-eating lizards that have an almost miraculous ability to scurry up walls and to stick to ceilings. Aristotle, the noted philosopher, even mentioned the amazing climbing abilities of geckos in the fourth century B.C. And scientists have been wondering ever since how the noisy, little creatures could walk up smooth surfaces, or even upside down on polished glass. They knew it was not due to suction or friction or any form of sticky glue, but a team of researchers from the University of California, Berkeley, now think they may have solved the riddle.

It appears to come from a weak, magnetic attraction that molecules have one for another when they're brought very, very close together. Scientists looked at the feet of geckos through a microscope, revealing about two million, densely-packed, fine hairs, or setae, on each toe. The end of each with a seta is further divided into hundreds and thousands of structures called spatulae.

These billions of spatulae, which look like broccoli on the tips of the hairs, produce electrical attractions that are pressed so close to a surface they're magnetically glued and they glue the animals down. It's believed that the combined, adhesive power of all the tiny hairs lining the geckos' toes is ten times greater than the maximum force needed to pull a gecko off a wall.

The gecko hairs have also been shown to be self-cleaning, unlike any other known adhesive. The geckos have developed an amazing way to walk with these six million, dry, adhesive foot hairs on each foot. They scamper up walls and cross ceilings by rolling these hairs onto the surface, and then they peel them off again just like tape, but all within the fraction of a second.

The attraction of the weak electrical forces allow the gecko to stick to virtually any surface, even polished glass. California researchers believe the reptile's sticky toes could now help them develop a new, dry, synthetic adhesive, better than tape, and self-cleaning.

It has been estimated that if our feet had the same sticking power of a gecko foot, each foot cold hold someone of about 90 pounds to a glass ceiling. You know, the Bible teaches that when a man marries a wife, he is to leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife. But it appears that the glue holding many marriages together today has been failing.

Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Well friends, I'm so glad that we are together again for another edition of Bible Answers Live. We're thankful that you have tuned in. If this is your first time finding the program, this is a live, interactive Bible study that is going across the ocean, across North America, and around the world via the Internet.

If you have a Bible question on any Bible-related subject, we welcome your call. We don't claim to have all the answers, but we've got Bibles all around us, and we're going to search the Word together and find the truth. The phone number is a free phone call, 1-800-GOD-SAYS, that's 1-800-463-7297. Right now we still have a few lines open. Some of them are lighting up as I speak, but give us a call.

If you don't get through the first time, try it again, 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor. Normally Dick Devitt is with us, but on radio you can have a bad hair day; but if you have a bad voice day, then you need to excuse yourself. Pastor Dick has a sore throat tonight, so I'm going to be winging it with our studio staff here.

I know you'll pray for me as we go. We're going to start the program with prayer right now. Father in heaven, we want to thank You for this opportunity and even this technology that makes this program possible, to broadcast the elements of truth in its truest sense over the airwaves. And Lord, we would pray that, through God the Spirit, He would impress every heart of those who are listening and that the answers will bare root in our hearts and bear fruit in our lives. So please be with us, bless the program, and we ask that it brings glory to Your name and expands Your kingdom. In Christ's name we pray, amen.

In our study tonight, in our amazing fact about geckos and their amazing ability to stick to virtually any surface, and--I don't know--those of you who have lived in, maybe, Florida, or some of the Caribbean islands or anywhere around the equator, geckos are found around the world. They make, sometimes, a very annoying noise at night.

They're good for eating bugs, but it's fun to try and catch them because you virtually have to pull them off the wall; and it has been a mystery, how do they stick? What glues them there? They've now discovered it's an electrical force that is so fine, because these hairs on their toes virtually bond with the molecules in the surface they're walking on, and they can attach it and detach it almost instantly.

The analogy was they're trying to build a glue that can do for us what the geckos' feet does to a wall. It would be nice if we had that glue in our marriages because we all know the statistics. Nearly 50% of marriages end in divorce; and we know that a lot of people are not even getting married these days. So maybe the statistics would be worse if all those living together got married.

But what's the answer? You know, I just came from a wedding, and it was good to hear people make their vows for the first time again. The Pastor asked husbands and wives present to hold hands and renew their vows. Perhaps you listening are wondering what can be done to strengthen your relationship with your spouse.

What does the Bible say? Are there some tips, some suggestions? I'd like to assure you that the Bible has a lot to say about how we can cleave to one another. There's a free offer we'd like to make available tonight for anybody listening. You can't complain about the price. It's a free phone call, and it's a free offer. It's on marriage.

It's the Amazing Facts' Bible study guide on marriage. It's known as, "Holy Wedlock or Unholy Deadlock?" You just ask for the study guide on marriage and we'll send it to you free of charge, and here's the phone number to call if you'd like a copy. It's 1-800-835-6747. This lesson has been a best seller. Hundreds and thousands of them have gone out over the last 30 years.

It has been a real blessing to people who have looked at the truth of the Bible to strengthen their marriages. So call that number if you'd like to get the Amazing Facts' free study guide on marriage, 1-800-835-6747. As our custom is, we're not stuck on tradition, but we do have one here, to take one or two Internet questions for those who send us hundreds each week.

We have one here. "In Luke 9, verse 51 and 53, it says that Jesus set His face to go to Jerusalem. For some reason, the Samaritans did not want to receive Him because His face was as though He would go to Jerusalem. What does this verse mean when it says, 'He set His face'?"

Pastor Doug: Well, the Samaritans believed, and you can read this in the story of the woman at the well in John chapter 4, they believed that God was to be worshiped on Mount Gerizim. The Jews, of course, believed it was on Mount Zion, or Mount Moriah where the temple is. When Jesus was on His way to Jerusalem to worship at the temple, the Samaritans took that as a snub to their religion.

The Samaritans believed in some of the same things as the Jews. They accepted the five books of Moses and certain other aspects of God, but they differed on others. And when Jesus was going to Jerusalem to worship, they were offended, and they did not welcome Him in their community. Of course, that changed after His encounter with the woman at the well.

The next question we have is someone is wondering about the passage in Matthew chapter 24, verse 34. Now, the Lord is addressing many of the signs of the second coming in Matthew chapter 24. Then in verse 34, He says, "Verily I say to you, This generation will not pass away till all these things be fulfilled."

It's interesting to note that Jesus made this prophecy in approximately 30 A.D. And part of Matthew 24 is not only dealing with His second coming; the disciples asked Him when will the destruction of the temple be, because He had said there would not be one stone left upon another.

Many of the prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem were synonymous with the end of the world; and it's interesting that Jesus gave this prophecy in 30 A.D. A generation in the Bible is 40 years. You might remember the generation, that did not believe, that came out of the slavery of Egypt, had to wander for 40 years because they did not have faith, one generation, 40 years.

Jesus gives Matthew 24 in 30 A.D., exactly 40 years later in 70 A.D. Titus, the Roman General came, he destroyed Jerusalem, they destroyed the temple. There was not one stone left upon another. They even plowed the ground of the temple to try to get the gold that had melted in the ensuing fires and seeped into the cracks. The prophecy was perfectly fulfilled.

There may be another generation period that could be applied in the last days, but we don't have time to go there right now. What we are going to do is go to the phones. If you would like to call in a question, as we answer them we'll free various lines. That number again is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297.

I'm going to start out by going to College Place, Washington. We're going to talk to Tamara who is calling with a question, listening on KTGS. Did I say that right? Is it Tamara? Are you there Tamara?

Tamara: Yes, hi

Pastor Doug: Hi, how are you doing?

Tamara: I'm doing good.

Pastor Doug: And your question tonight?

Tamara: My question is are the kings of the east the Chilean soldiers that crossed the Euphrates river mentioned in Revelation 15:12? Are they coming to worship the king of Jerusalem like the wise men from the east did when the Lord was a Babe? Or are they coming to join the armies of the world to battle against the Lord as coming, mentioned in Revelation 15:14?

Pastor Doug: Let me give you the background to answer that. When the children of Israel were captives in Babylon, some kings from the east, mainly the Medo-Persian kingdoms, came and conquered Babylon; and that was really the means of setting Israel free because then the Persian King, Cyrus, issued a decree, and Darius, and they let them go back.

So the kings of the east that you're speaking of in Revelation, that's a good thing. There is no historical connection with the Magi, or the wise men, that came from the east. There may be a symbolic connection, because obviously, Revelation is written 60 years after the Magi came to worship Jesus.

Tamara: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: But the kings coming from the east were coming to conquer Babylon, and that would liberate God's people. You might look at it this way. When God the Father, Son and Spirit come, the Bible speaks of them coming from the east. You know, all the cemeteries in protestant countries are designed so that people are buried facing the east. Are you aware of that?

Tamara: I wasn't.

Pastor Doug: And part of that is because of the traditional belief in the Bible. It talks about the Lord coming from the east.

Tamara: Okay

Pastor Doug: So, that's what I believe the meaning is there, okay?

Tamara: So they're coming to worship Him at the battle of Armageddon?

Pastor Doug: They're coming to liberate God's people. Revelation uses Old Testament stories to explain prophetic events of the future.

Tamara: Okay

Pastor Doug: For instance, it's talking about the fall of Babylon. And when the kings of Medo-Persia came to conquer Babylon, the children of Israel then went home. They went back to the Promised Land. When the Lord comes to destroy the earthly Babylon in the last days, we go back to the heavenly Jerusalem, okay?

Tamara: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Hope that helps. Thanks a lot.

Tamara: Okay, God bless.

Pastor Doug: Okay, next we're going to be talking with John, who has been waiting patiently, calling from New York, New York, my old hometown, listening on WMCA. Welcome John.

John: Yes sir, how are you doing this evening?

Pastor Doug: Very well, and how can we help you tonight?

John: Thank you for taking my call. I called a couple of weeks ago, actually a couple of months ago, asking about the feast days and sabbaths that was back then. You sent me a book, Feast Days & Sabbaths, by Joe Crews.

Pastor Doug: Yes

John: And it was talking about a few points about it being two different laws that God wrote, and Moses gave them and commanded them, and how it was kept in two different places. At the end of one section of the book, it said, "At this point, we can note several distinctions in the two laws, that they had different authors, were written on different material, were placed in different locations and had totally different content." When he says, "They had different authors," I always thought God was the Author of both laws, even though He just told Moses what to write, and he wrote it.

Pastor Doug: I know what you're saying. Actually, that's a misunderstanding of the semantics. It's talking about different scribes. The word "author" does not always mean the one who inspires something, it's the one who writes it. And Moses, obviously, wrote the Mosaic or the Levitical laws on paper, parchment; whereas God wrote the Ten Commandments with His finger.

But all inspired material in the Bible comes from God. We agree on that.

John: Alright, but it's one author, not two different authors. There's one author, which is God right?

Pastor Doug: That's probably a bad choice of words, I'll grant you that. There is one Author. God is the Author of His Word.

John: Alright

Pastor Doug: It simply was talking about two different scribes.

John: And those feast days and sabbaths were just for the Jews back then?

Pastor Doug: I believe that all of the feast days that came after the Exodus revolved around the sanctuary and its services; and that now we keep them for their spiritual value. In other words, whenever we celebrate the Lord's Supper, that was a continuance of the Passover. When Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper it was a Passover meal.

But now we don't kill a lamb. Jesus is our Lamb, right?

John: Right

Pastor Doug: So the services have gone through a transition.

John: Didn't Paul rush to get to Jerusalem to keep the feast of unleaven bread, and make it to Jerusalem to make it for Pentecost? Why would he even keep these days that we say are no longer binding on us? Why would he even make an effort to try to keep them, if he was in a rush to keep them?

Pastor Doug: That's a good question, but Paul did it for the same reason that you find him going to the synagogue every Sabbath. He did it as an opportunity to preach to his national citizens, his people. And when he wanted to get down to the feast, the biggest gathering of Jewish people in the kingdom was when they came to the annual feast.

And Paul said, "I want to get down to that feast," not so that he could keep an old Jewish feast, because Paul was the most vocal spokesman that was not under the ceremonial laws. He wanted to get to the feast so that he could be preaching. That's exactly what he did. They tried to kill him; and he got up on the steps and he said, "Let me preach to the people." He didn't want to lose the opportunity.

So, if you've read the book there John, that's probably our best stab at giving you Bible answers for those issues. I hope that's helped a little, but we've got folks lined up and we need to move along here. So next, we're going to talk to Matthew who's calling from Newfoundland and listening on VOAR. Welcome Matthew.

Matthew: Yeah, actually in the book of Timothy, I think it's in 1st Timothy--no, actually 2nd John, verses 9 and 10 where he refers to people that the apostle John says if anyone comes to...never receive into your homes or accept these teachings.

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Matthew: And he goes on to say - -

Pastor Doug: 2nd John, verse 9 and 10, "If any comes to you, and brings not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him" - -

Matthew: "...your home" (unintelligible)

Pastor Doug: Right

Matthew: Now I was wondering, I imagine that's also referring to ones that's of the true faith, obviously, that were in the truth and that knew the truth, and then they went astray, apostatized. And I imagine John was telling them not to associate with these people after they departed from the faith. Is that what he was talking about there in the context?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. The first few words help us understand. He says, "If any come unto you." He's talking about those who come to teach.

Matthew: Yeah

Pastor Doug: That doesn't mean we can't welcome people into our home who might have varying beliefs for the purpose of studying to learn the truth.

Matthew: Yeah

Pastor Doug: But if teachers were coming that were teaching heresy, we were not to invite them into our house and risk exposing ourselves to heresy. That's why John said take a [cross talk, unintelligible]

Matthew: Well, I think John here, he was talking about first century Christians that were became apostates; - -

Pastor Doug: Yes

Matthew: - - they apostatized from the true faith.

Pastor Doug: That's correct.

Matthew: Yeah

Pastor Doug: But we still have them today, don't we?

Matthew: Yes. Unfortunately, we have a lot of them, you know, well even, I imagine, within the Western world where there are so many different religious organizations out there professing to be true Christians, but - -

Pastor Doug: I think all of our friends who are listening, John, know that there are a couple of churches in particular that send their believers out two by two, knocking on doors, and they wonder, "Should we let them in?"

Matthew: Yeah

Pastor Doug: And according to this passage, you know, unless a person is really rooted in the Word and you're prepared to study with them and maybe help them, I wouldn't take the risk.

Matthew: Still there?

Pastor Doug: Yes I'm here. Can you hear me?

Matthew: Yeah. Oh yeah, but I think in the context of that Scripture there, I think John was, I think, talking to individual people in the true Christian congregation of that era, - -

Pastor Doug: Yes

Matthew: - - that probably that were in the truth--maybe even start teaching apostate ideas.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, and that's the point. I hope that helps you a little bit.

Matthew: Yeah, just one more point. Do I have time to ask that too, as well?

Pastor Doug: Well, if you can do it real quick.

Matthew: In Revelation, chapter 17, it talks about the walled beast turned against a harlot.

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Matthew: I think it's referring to Babylon the great here?

Pastor Doug: Yes

Matthew: Is that referring to the present-day governments today that are going to make an all-out attack on this religious empire, this religious system?

Pastor Doug: Well, you're using the right words, but I think you're arranging your sentence differently. I believe that the religious leaders are going to push the kings of the earth, or the governments, to make religious laws. To understand that, there are three or four examples in the Bible of what's going to happen in the last days.

Matthew: Yeah

Pastor Doug: In the days of King Nebuchadnezzar, he made a law that everybody had to bow and worship an image or be killed. He, a government, made a religious law. God's people had to decide, "Do we obey the law of God, or the government?"

Matthew: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And, of course, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were thrown in the furnace, but God delivered them. Then you've got, in the days of Daniel, Darius made a law that everybody had to pray to him or go to the lions' den; and then, again, it was a choice, a government, religious law violating the law of God.

In the book of Esther, you've got Haman wanted everyone to bow to him. Mordecai would not do it, so he [Haman] wanted to exterminate all of God's people. So there's a number of examples of this in the Bible. In the last days, there is going to be a universal, religious law compelling people to break the law of God; and only those who are faithful to the Word, that obey God instead of men, are going to stand.

Matthew: I was just wondering in the context here, like in verse 17, where it says for God has put into their hearts to fill their purpose. Now I was just wondering, would God use the, like the governments, the United Nations, to obviously put into their minds to attack religion, to close down religion, knowing all the problems that religious cause from the centuries so that they're the root cause of problems today, that they would actually use these governments to maneuver and to shut down religion? Could that be what's (unintelligible) here in the prophecy of John there?

Pastor Doug: You know, that's very possible. You've asked a good question, a big question. And matter of fact, I've got to sometimes be very careful I don't transition from my very strong religious beliefs into political views. I try to keep it on the Bible. But God has used, or has allowed, I should say, various governments through history to do things that would wake up His people.

There are many examples of that, even with what happened with Babylon, and Medo-Persia, Greece; Rome occupying God's people. These political powers were used to bring revival, ultimately. But, oh I hope that helps. You know, we've got a study guide online, Matthew, that's called, The Beast, The Dragon and The Woman.

If you request that book, we'll send it to you. It's a book, not a study guide, by Joe Crews, The Beast, The Dragon and The Woman. We'll be happy to send that out. Hope that helps Matthew. We're going to move along and see if we can talk to Rachel before the break, calling from New York, New York, on WMCA. Welcome Rachel.

Rachel: Hello

Pastor Doug: Hi, your question?

Rachel: My question was 2nd Corinthians 12. Paul is talking about that he knew of one of Christ's followers who was taken up into a third heaven fourteen years ago.

Pastor Doug: Right

Rachel: And I was wondering, what is the third heaven?

Pastor Doug: Good question. Now in the Hebrew mind, they had one word that had three different meanings. They numbered the different meanings: first heaven, second heaven, third heaven. The first heaven, for the Jews, was the atmosphere around the earth where the clouds float and the wind blows and the birds fly.

You know in the Bible it says God is going to make a new heaven and a new earth?

Rachel: Yes

Pastor Doug: It's not talking about the dwelling place of God. It means the atmosphere around the earth. Matter of fact, if you read in Genesis, it'll say God put a heaven, a firmament. That's the first heaven.

Rachel: Um-hmm!

Pastor Doug: The second heaven is our solar system, where the stars hang and the moon and the planets, so forth, are. That was called the "heavens above," the starry heavens.

Rachel: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: The third heaven is Paradise, or the dwelling place of God. So Paul is saying in his vision, he was caught up to the third heaven, meaning the dwelling place of God; and that's why he said, "I saw things." The man he's speaking of, we believe, was he's speaking of himself, that he saw things he cannot even be uttered.

So the third heaven in the Bible, some churches teach there's a seventh heaven; but it doesn't really teach us that. The third heaven is talking about the dwelling place of God. Does that make sense?

Rachel: Yes, it really does. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Alright, well you're an easy customer. Thanks a lot for your question Rachel.

Rachel: Okay, thank you. I love watching your show on BET.

Pastor Doug: Well praise the Lord!

Rachel: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Keep watching and tell your friends.

Rachel: Okay

Pastor Doug: God bless you.

Rachel: Bye bye

Pastor Doug: Bye Bye. Next, David is listening in Newark, New Jersey, WMCA. Welcome David.

David: Yes, Pastor Doug, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Very well, how about you?

David: I'm doing very well, thank you. I received your book about the Trinity. Thank you very much for sending it to me.

Pastor Doug: Well praise the Lord, and you have a question tonight?

David: Oh yes. My question is about Jeremiah chapter 10, verse, I think it's Jeremiah chapter 10:2 and 3, talking about the Christmas tree there?

Pastor Doug: Okay, let me read this for our friends who are listening because I always like to remember a lot of people are in their cars as they listen. I'm going to start with verse two.

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the ways of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workmen, with an ax. They deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and hammers, that doesn't move. They are upright as the palm tree, but they don't speak: they must needs be carried around, because they can't go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither can they do good."

This is really a passage that has nothing to do with a Christmas tree. The custom of the people back then was to make idols out of wood.

David: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: They would cut a tree out of the forest. They would cover it with silver and gold, not meaning gold bottles. They would actually hammer gold onto it and spread it out, or silver. They would make an idol, and they had to carry their idols around. You probably have seen processions where people carry idols up the street.

They would pray to them; and here Jeremiah is saying, "It's futile. They have to be carried. They can't walk, they can't speak, they can't hear, and the customs of the people are vain." Some people have taken this and they've tried to build a case of this as a prophecy about Christmas trees.

David: Yes, but a Christmas tree could be used as an idol, wouldn't you say?

Pastor Doug: Sure.

David: It could be.

Pastor Doug: No question.

David: In what sense, in what sense?

Pastor Doug: Well, anything that takes the attention and worship that belongs to God from God, it becomes an idol. It could be your automobile. It could be a dress. It could be a house. It could be a job. Some people idolize movie stars.

David: Yes

Pastor Doug: And so anything that takes the place of God could be an idol; and someone could make an idol, I suppose, out of the Christmas tree.

David: Can I ask you one more thing real quick - -

Pastor Doug: Sure

David: - - about Christmas? I think the Catholic church phrases the word "Christmas" as "Christ's mass." Can you say something about that?

Pastor Doug: "Christ's mass." Of course, we're at that time of year we always get these questions, and we're happy to answer them. First of all, the 25th of December really has no foundation as far as the birth of Christ, and most people know that. Most Bible scholars firmly agree that that was the winter solstice.

The 25th of December is the first day in the Northern hemisphere where they days begin to get longer, and in all sun-worshiping empires, it was a day of celebration. They would often remember that day by dancing around an evergreen tree, because it never lost its leaves. It was sort of a symbol of eternal life and new life.

So as many of the Romans became Christians, they began to sort of amalgamate some of their customs with the Christian beliefs. That's where you get the date of the 25th of December and the Christmas tree. But a person has to ask, you know, if their conscience bothers them about doing this; I certainly would urge them not to violate their conscience.

David: Would you say the word "Christmas" means "Christ's mass"?

Pastor Doug: Correct. The word "Christmas" did originate with the phrase "Christ's mass." It was a high mass in the Catholic church during the end of the year and that holiday, and so there's no question about that. But, you know, you need to ask yourself when you follow a custom, or tradition, is it a sin if the custom or tradition doesn't violate any Bible principle.

If the world is going to pick a day to remember the birth of Christ, since we don't know the exact date, that may not be a bad day; and do it with good. The Bible says, "Overcome evil with good." Nothing personal David, but we're going to take a break now. The clock dictates the time we need to do that.

For our friends who are listening, that music does not mean we're finished. We've got our momentum up and running. Pastor Dick is going to share some pre-recorded announcements that are very important; and in a minute I'll be back with more Bible questions. We'll go right back to the phones.

We want to remind you, if you are able to get on the Internet, and I understand in North America about 60% of the homes are, then go to the website,, or you can do, or Check out the free study guides that we have online.

We have a whole library. If you're teaching in any church class, you would be thrilled with the resources we have available for free. A lot of material you can download and use in your teaching capacity. In the meantime, stay tuned, we'll be right back.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back listening friends. This is Bible Answers Live, a live, interactive Bible study. We invite you to give us a call if you have any Bible questions. We don't have a line open yet, but we will in a moment because we're going to go right back to the phones. That number, when a line does open up, is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297.

Now it's time to go to Richard who is calling from Orlando, Florida and listening on the Internet. Welcome Richard, do you have a question?

Richard: Yes I do. How are you doing Doug?

Pastor Doug: Very well, how about you?

Richard: Doing great, thank you. My question is on Matthew chapter 10, verses 37 through 39.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Richard: What, exactly, is Jesus saying, you know, "Anyone who loves his father more than Me...." And it goes on to say his sons or daughters. Then on 38 it says, "And anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me."

Pastor Doug: Well, first of all, God is the Giver and Creator of all life. So to love a family member more than God is loving the creature more than the Creator. It's like loving a gift more than the one who gave the gift.

Richard: Okay

Pastor Doug: And so Jesus is saying that if we care more about what a person tells us to do, or pleasing a person than pleasing God, we're not worthy of Jesus.

Richard: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: We all know there are people who are more concerned about pleasing friends or family more than pleasing God; and He said, "Then you really can't be my disciple." And then He goes on further to say unless we're willing to take our cross and follow Him.

In Bible times, a crucifixion was a very popular means of executing non-Roman criminals. When someone took up their cross, they were carrying it to their crucifixion. Jesus is saying, "You need to be willing, basically, to give up your life and say, 'I'm not going to live for myself. I'm going to live for God.'" And that's where happiness comes from.

People think if they live for themselves they'll be happy, but they're never satisfied. Jesus said, "If you lose your life, you'll find it. If you try to keep your life, you'll lose it" [Matt. 10:39].

Richard: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: It sounds like a paradox, but it's really true.

Richard: Okay

Pastor Doug: And that's the principle. "He that finds his life will lose it, and he that loses it for My sake will find it." In other words, if we just live to get what we want for ourselves, a selfish life, we lose everything.

Richard: I see.

Pastor Doug: Who was it? Someone said, "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to get what he cannot lose." When we give away our lives, we're going to die anyway, give them to the Lord now and you get everlasting life. If you try to live for yourself, you lose everything.

Richard: Um-hmm, okay.

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Richard: Okay Doug. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Thank you Richard, good question.

Richard: Thank you, bye.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Next, we're talking to Steve who is calling from New York, New York, again on WMCA. Welcome to the program Steve, your question?

Steve: Good evening Pastor

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Steve: My question deals with a point that you have made on several occasions about what happens to a person immediately after death.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Steve: I'd like to just lay out three verses and tie them together, and you can comment on them?

Pastor Doug: Alright, as long as it doesn't go too long. We want to be as brief as possible.

Steve: Right, it'll be quick. In John 11:26, Jesus makes the point that, "Anyone who is alive and believes in Me will never die." And in 2nd Corinthians 5:8 and Philippians 1:23, it seems to imply that to be absent from the body, or to die physically, means to be with the Lord. So it seems to me that upon death for a Christian, you go into the presence of Christ because you never really die. Can you comment on that?

Pastor Doug: I'll do my best. Basically, I would agree with you. What I'm agreeing with is that a Christian doesn't really die. When Stephen was stoned to death, the Bible says he went to sleep. Christians go to sleep when they die; and Daniel chapter 12 says, "Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

Paul says in 1st Thessalonians 4, "We do not need to sorrow concerning them that are asleep," and he's talking about the dead in Christ, asleep. So is a person sleeping dead or alive?

Steve: Yeah, but isn't the word "sleep" used as a word for death?

Pastor Doug: It's a metaphor.

Steve: Yeah, but that - -

Pastor Doug: Yeah, but we know that these bodies - -

Steve: - - they're not really asleep.

Pastor Doug: - - these bodies that we have now do not get everlasting life. We get a new body, correct?

Steve: Right

Pastor Doug: They are glorified bodies. So, the second part of your question is where Paul says, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." Suppose that you're saved and you die, I'm talking about from our perspective in this word, people do die, we have funerals. Your next conscious thought, as a Christian, is the second coming and the presence of the Lord.

Now, five or ten years may go by, but you don't know that. Your next thought is your coming out of your grave with a glorified body. For you it's a moment, the twinkling of an eye in the presence of the Lord.

Now let me prove that. It's easy for me to say that. You believe King David, I'm talking about the good one, will he be saved, or lost?

Steve: He'll be saved.

Pastor Doug: I believe so too. If you read in Acts chapter 2, Peter says, and this is after the resurrection, after Pentecost, Peter says, "Let me speak to you freely of the patriarch David, that he is dead and buried, and not ascended into heaven." And when David died, Nathan said, "You will sleep with your fathers."

Now David died about a thousand years before Christ, three thousand years for us now; but for David it hasn't seemed like 3,000 years. For David, his next conscious thought, to be absent from his physical body, he'll be resurrected and present with the Lord. What messes us up is--and so many Christians are confused on this subject--is that we live in a dimension of time that God is not restricted to.

God can take a prophet into the future and give him three-dimensional vision. He can take him into the past; - -

[Chirping, background noises]

Pastor Doug: - - but it's just so clear that when the Lord comes is when the resurrection takes place. Have you read our free study guide we offer on the Bible Scriptures on the subject of death?

Steve: No, but I've heard you mention it several times.

Pastor Doug: It's free. It won't hurt you. It's all Bible Scriptures. Would you be willing to look at that?

Steve: Sure

Pastor Doug: Okay. Do you have birds in the background.

Steve: Yeah I do.

Pastor Doug: I recognize that. My brother had them [chuckles]. Okay, our resource number is 1-800-835-6747. What I'd like you to do, Steve, is ask for the study guide, "Are the Dead Really Dead?" Now, I don't believe they are. I believe that they are sleeping until the resurrection.

Steve: Hmm

Pastor Doug: But take a look at that. Just see if the Scriptures support what I'm saying. I just want people to believe the Bible.

Steve: Um m

Pastor Doug: And I hope that will help you a little bit, and after you read that let me know what you think. Moving on now to line #9, talking to Bob in New York, New York again, WMCA. Welcome Bob.

Bob: Yeah, hello. My question is when Jesus Christ died on the cross, did the second Person of the Trinity, which spans the whole universe, galaxies, eternity, did that along suffer with it?

Pastor Doug: Yes. Let me tell you why. Jesus tells a parable in Matthew 25 where He said that, "I was hungry, you gave me food: I was naked, you gave me clothes: I was thirsty, you gave me drink: I was a stranger or in prison, you came to me." And they'll say, "When?" He'll say, "In as much as you did it to the least of these, you did it to Me."

Bob, do you agree that God knows everything?

Bob: Yes

Pastor Doug: Can God feel everything that I feel?

Bob: Yes

Pastor Doug: I mean, you know, politicians tell us, "I feel your pain."

Bob: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: But I have my doubts that they really do.

Bob: Yeah, right

Pastor Doug: God does feel our pain, doesn't He?

Bob: Yeah

Pastor Doug: So because God is aware of every sensation in the universe, did God, the Father, Son and Spirit, all feel the suffering together?

Bob: No

Pastor Doug: Well, I believe.

Bob: Think so?

Pastor Doug: I do. I believe that since God knows all things, you agree God knows all things, right?

Bob: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Then could God experience?

Bob: All that suffering?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, of course.

Bob: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Let me ask you, are you a parent?

Bob: No

Pastor Doug: Alright, well you can answer anyway.

Bob: Okay

Pastor Doug: Suppose you're a parent - -

Bob: Right

Pastor Doug: - - and someone was going to torture your child in front of you, - -

Bob: Right

Pastor Doug: - - would it hurt you, - -

Bob: Yes

Pastor Doug: - - even though they're not touching you?

Bob: I see your point.

Pastor Doug: Would God the Father suffer when they tortured His Son?

Bob: Yes

Pastor Doug: Okay. There's my answer.

Bob: That's good enough for me.

Pastor Doug: Alright

Bob: Thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: Thanks, good question, appreciate it.

Bob: Alright, bye

Pastor Doug: Now we're going to talk to someone right here in Sacramento listening on KFIA, and the name is--I can't say that name--Riley Greg. Oh, hi, how are you doing? Riley?

Riley: Hi

Pastor Doug: Am I saying your name right?

Riley: Yes

Pastor Doug: And your question?

Riley: When we get to heaven, in the Trinity, how many Forms, I mean, how many People will we see as God?

Pastor Doug: How many Beings will we see?

Riley: Yes

Pastor Doug: How many Images, or whatever?

Riley: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Good question. Let me tell you what I think. Right now, whenever I talk about God, you take off your shoes and be very careful, because God is holy and we're just men. In the book of Daniel chapter 7, Riley, - -

Riley: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - there's a vision the prophet has where he sees the Ancient of Days seated. And then it says, "One like the Son of man came before Him." Now, Jesus called Himself the "Son of man."

Riley: Yeah

Pastor Doug: The Ancient of Days whose eyes are like flaming fire, and His hair is like wool, and He's shining like the sun, if the Son of man is Jesus, then the Ancient of Days must be God the Father, right?

Riley: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: At the baptism of Jesus, we hear the voice of the Father, the Holy Spirit comes down like a dove, and then Jesus is in the water. When we get to heaven, we may see God the Father on a throne, Jesus at His right hand. I don't know that we'll see a form of the Holy Spirit because sometimes the Holy Spirit looks like a fire at Pentecost; a dove at the baptism; wind.

Jesus compares Him in John chapter 3 to wind. The Holy Spirit is everywhere, right?

Riley: Yes

Pastor Doug: He's with you by your telephone now. He's with me in the studio. And so He doesn't have the kind of body we have.

Riley: Yeah

Pastor Doug: So I think we may see the form of God the Father, and God the Son; but I don't know that we'll see a form for God the Spirit, okay?

Riley: Okay

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps.

Riley: Thank you

Pastor Doug: I gave you a little bit of Scripture.

Riley: Thank you

Pastor Doug: Alright, God bless. Next, we're going to talk to Joe calling in Malvern, Arkansas. Is that right? KWLR, Joe, you there?

Joe: Yes

Pastor Doug: And your question?

Joe: I'm looking for an answer to something that has been bothering me. I have heard that to have dream catchers in your house was inviting evil spirits, or Satan, into your house. I was just wondering if there was a Bible answer to this?

Pastor Doug: Well, I think there is. First, let me explain for our friends listening, and you can correct me. Dream catchers are these Indian-like designs that are sort of woven.

Joe: Yes

Pastor Doug: And they used to call them "god's eyes," and there are different words for them. Some people have cultural art in their homes and it's solely for decorative purposes. I

would not go so far as to say that these people around the world who might have different art forms from different parts of the world are inviting evil spirits into their home.

If they make an idol of it, or if they're aware that it's some pagan god and they're worshiping it, well yes, then you are inviting evil spirits in. Paul said, "If you eat meat sacrificed to an idol, if it bothers you, don't eat it; or if someone around you is bothered by it, then get rid of it. Don't do anything to make your brother stumble."

But if you've gotten something like that with the understanding it's just a piece of cultural art and it doesn't bother you, I wouldn't worry about it. If it's bothering others, or if it is bothering your conscience, then get rid of it. I don't, you know, just because somebody calls something "something," doesn't make it "something."

Let me explain what I'm saying. If I decide to hang a Fisher Price baby mobile from a lamp in my house, and then I tell you that in my religion that's a demonic symbol, well just because I say that doesn't mean that the Fisher Price mobile hanging over the crib suddenly becomes demonic.

Joe: Yeah

Pastor Doug: See what I'm saying?

Joe: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Just because people call something "something" doesn't make it evil. There are folks who want us to take the flag out of our churches because the little stars have five points, and they say, "That's diabolical." You've probably heard that before.

Joe: Yes I have.

Pastor Doug: I mean, you can take it so far you become a kook; but if, you know, if it's troubling you, then get rid of it. Don't do anything that is not of faith. Isn't that what the Bible teaches?

Joe: Yes

Pastor Doug: So, that's where I'd leave it.

Joe: Okay. Could I just ask one more question?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, if it's quick.

Joe: Something like that that is though, that you know, say it's, you know, uh, was in voodoo or something, would that be something--I mean, if you know for sure it was used?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, yeah. If you're getting into things that you know are specifically designed for hurting others, like in voodoo dolls, or witchcraft, I would not invite. First of all, I don't think demons possess dolls and fabric and sticks. They possess people. They can possess animals. Demons want to possess living creatures. That's what we learn from Matthew chapter 5.

Joe: Yeah

Pastor Doug: The idea of demons haunting houses and two-by-fours and plaster is not really biblical.

Joe: Oh

Pastor Doug: But if you're bringing in symbols that you know are Satanic, then, you know, get them out of your house.

Joe: Okay

Pastor Doug: Don't do anything that is not of faith.

Joe: Alright

Pastor Doug: Alright?

Joe: Alright, thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: Alright, God bless. Moving right along, talking to Jason in Bloomfield, New Jersey. How can we help you Jason?

Jason: Pastor Doug Batchelor, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Very well, how are you?

Jason: Pretty good, pretty good.

Pastor Doug: Your question tonight?

Jason: Alright. My question is what does the Bible have to say about being slain in the spirit, and miraculous activity like that, like speaking in tongues and healings, stuff like that?

Pastor Doug: Well, you're asking several questions.

Jason: Yes

Pastor Doug: Let me start with the healing. The Bible teaches supernatural healing. I believe that the Lord can heal everything from a toothache to a dead body, because there are examples in the Bible. I always go by whatever the Bible says. I believe in divine, supernatural healing.

Sometimes God will heal instantly. Sometimes He does it through time. Jesus healed one person using two or three applications on the eyes. Sometimes a person is healed with medical treatment. Isaiah healed Hezekiah with a lump of figs, it was a poultice. I mean, there are different ways. So I believe in healing.

Then you asked about speaking in tongues.

Jason: Yes

Pastor Doug: Rather than give you a protracted answer on that, I've written a book on it that has been very popular; and anybody listening right now, if you'd like a free copy of my book--we just live by faith on this program and I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this, but if you'd like a free copy of the book, Captured by Tongues, you call our resource number, Jason.

Jason: Okay

Pastor Doug: Ask for, Captured by Tongues, Pastor Batchelor's book on tongues, and that number is 1-800-835-6747.

Jason: Okay

Pastor Doug: And we'll send it to you. Then the third question, slain in the spirit, - -

Jason: Yes

Pastor Doug: - - that's where people fall down, because the Holy Spirit comes over them. Sometimes they bounce and writhe and wiggle and convulse. I don't see any example in the Bible where Jesus healed people, or they were filled with the Spirit and they fell down and began to lose control. The Holy Spirit does not rob us of our dignity.

I believe the Holy Spirit increases our dignity. When the apostles were filled with the Spirit, they began to preach with great eloquence. I don't believe they began to writhe and convulse and foam at the mouth and shake and laugh and giggle. You don't see examples of that in the Bible. So, I think we need to stick with what the Bible says. Jesus did not slap people on the head and knock them down.

Jason: Right

Pastor Doug: And I think that's sort of an insult to the dignity of Christianity.

Jason: Right

Pastor Doug: That doesn't mean Christians can't be happy in the Lord and be filled with emotion; but the idea that when you're filled with the Spirit you lose all self-control is not biblical. Most people don't have self-control. The Holy Spirit gives it to you. Most people don't have self-control. The Holy Spirit gives you victory.

Jason: Right

Pastor Doug: So hopefully, that will answer your questions a little bit, okay?

Jason: Yeah, it does. Alright, may God bless you.

Pastor Doug: God bless you.

Jason: Alright

Pastor Doug: Next, we're going to talk to Tony who's on a cell phone calling in Sacramento listening on our mother station, KFIA. Welcome Tony, you're on the air.

Tony: Hey, how are you doing Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: Good. Turn down your radio in the back.

Tony: Oh, that's my wife on the other cell phone.

Pastor Doug: Oh, I'm sorry, turn down your wife [chuckles]

Tony: Hey wife, turn down [chuckles]. Yeah Pastor Doug, you know, I heard stories about when Jesus resurrected.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Tony: How many days did He stay on earth before He went to heaven?

Pastor Doug: I think we can get a fairly accurate answer to that. The Bible tells us that after He rose, He ascended ten days before the holiday of Pentecost. We know that Jesus died during Passover. That would mean over a period of about 40 days, which is a very interesting biblical number, He appeared to the disciples at various times.

Paul talks about Him appearing to two on the road to Emmaus. He appeared to Peter privately. We don't know about that meeting, but it's mentioned. He appeared in the upper room two different occasions. He appeared by the sea; and He appeared on the mountain when He ascended. So over a period of 40 days He appeared to the disciples, after the resurrection.

Tony: Can you find all that in the Bible?

Pastor Doug: All of that is in the Bible. Then it tells us at Pentecost, which is ten days after that, they were in that upper room praying, and that's when the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Tony: Fantastic!

Pastor Doug: So those numbers all have significance.

Tony: Alright. God bless you Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Alright, God bless. Thanks a lot. Now we're going to talk to Angela, listening on line 6, calling from New York, New York. Welcome Angela.

Angela: Hi

Pastor Doug: How can we help you?

Angela: My question is regarding Colossians chapter 4, verse 16.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Angela: And it says, "And when this epistle is read among you, cause it to be read also to the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." My question is where is the epistle from Laodicea, and why is it not included in the Scriptures?

Pastor Doug: That's a good question. This is one of several examples, Angela, you'll find in the Bible of some inspired writings that, for whatever reason, we have never found or they have not been preserved or recovered. Keep in mind, these epistles were letters.

Angela: Right

Pastor Doug: And I don't know about you, but I don't have every letter I've ever received. There are some precious ones I saved. I throw most of them away. This letter could have been lost through fire, or just misplaced or whatever. But the Bible also tells us in the Old Testament about the book of the prophet, Gad.

Angela: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: It talks about the book of Nathan the prophet, and we don't know whatever happened to them.

Angela: Now I have a text that is the lost books of the Bible and it had an epistle of Laodicea within in.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Those books, I think, are extremely suspicious. Now we do know that Jesus wrote a letter to the church of Laodicea in Revelation chapter 3, but that's different from what Paul is talking about.

Angela: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: That was a litter from the apostle John in the book of Revelation. There are authors who appeared a thousand years after Christ that claimed that they had found the gospel of Thomas and all these different apocryphal books, and they're of very dubious origin, very doubtful. So be careful.

Angela: Well, this particular book is not in the apocryphal books because I also have one of those, but it is included in the lost books of the Bible. And I do recognize, you know, that some of them--that particular book has letters and so-called gospels that are very much "Mary-heavy," - -

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Angela: - - you know what I mean?

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Angela: - - in which case I looked at it as being influenced, you know [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Men have played with those a little bit.

Angela: Right

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Angela: I do have one other brief question, then I'll let you answer.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Angela: And that is regarding the Sabbath day in John chapter 19, - -

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Angela: - - it refers to a "high sabbath."

Pastor Doug: Yes

Angela: What's the difference from the Sabbath and a "high sabbath"?

Pastor Doug: Good question. Let me explain that for you. The regular Sabbath, of course, is the seventh day of the week. A "high sabbath" was when one of the annual, Jewish sabbaths-- there was the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, then they had annual sabbaths that were part of the feast days.

When one of the annual sabbaths also landed on the seventh day of the week, they claimed a double blessing and they called it a "high sabbath." So that's what the apostle John is talking about. Thank you Angela. I hope that helps a little bit. Next, we're going to talk to Jessie who has been waiting patiently, calling from Walla Walla, Washington on KGTS. Welcome Jessie, your question?

Jessie: Hi

Pastor Doug: Hi

Jessie: Yeah, bless - -

Pastor Doug: We've just got a minute or two. How can we help you?

Jessie: Okay. Yeah, my question is the angel, Gabriel, visited Mary on the sixth month, and she conceived and carried the Lord for nine months. And I'm trying to [call drops off]

Pastor Doug: You know, I don't know what it was, but I think we just lost Jessie. I think his question was dealing with what time of year Jesus was born. And we can answer that; I'm hope I'm getting it. Don't have time for him to call back.

According to the Bible, the shepherds were out in their fields, Luke chapter 2, verse 6. The climate there in Israel is about the same as Northern California; shepherds would not be out in their fields the 24th of December. Secondarily, the Bible tells us that Jesus, we know He died during Passover in His thirty-third and one half year of life. He was baptized on His 30th birthday.

He ministered three and a half years. All you have to do is count back thirty-three and a half years, and it puts His birth sometime in the fall of about 4 B.C. So, we don't know the exact date of His birth because the Jewish calendar and our current Gregorian calendar, they don't line up. But it would be in the fall sometime, August, September, probably. Hope that helps.

We're going to try and take another call. George, calling from New York, New York on WMCA. Welcome George.

George: Hi, how are you Mr. Batchelor?

Pastor Doug: Very well. We only have a couple of minutes left.

George: Okay. I would like to know if a story I heard is found in the Bible, which is fallen angels making a race of giants with human women?

Pastor Doug: [Chuckles] well, I'll tell you where it's found, but I don't agree with it. People read Genesis chapter 6 and they try to build this doctrine. Would you like me to give this to you real quick?

George: Yes, please

Pastor Doug: Alright. Genesis 6, verse 1, "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives."

Now some people think these sons of God were angels that ended up having intimate relations with humans, the daughters of men; and then their children, it says, were "mighty men of old," giants. That's verse 4. They were giants in the earth after the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

Very simply, when Cain killed Abel, the two first sons of Adam and Eve, God later gave Adam and Eve other children, and their next boy was Seth. Seth and Adam and Eve continued to worship God. They were called the sons of God. All of their descendants were called the sons of God.

They remained separate from the descendants of Cain that were earthly, carnal, and they were the daughters of men; that meant "mortal, human." And matter of fact, the Bible says, "Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us," 1st John chapter 3, "that we should be called the sons of God." We are adopted into the family. We become sons of God by our faith.

When the descendants of Adam and Eve and Seth began to intermarry with the descendants of Cain, that lost race, then the distinction between the holy and the unholy was lost; and the Bible says that the "wickedness of man was great in the earth." That's the next verse, verse 5, and God is now going to send a flood to destroy the earth.

The reason it says there were giants is a very simple thing called "genetic vitality." When you inter-breed within a certain family, whether it's a purebred dog or anything, you get weaknesses through the repetitive genes. You don't have any fresh, outside genes. When you cross-breed between races and different breeds of species, you get genetic vitality.

When the sons of God and daughters of men got married, their children were very strong, some were giants. That's all that means. Anyway friends, we did get through our question. Thank you, George, for your question. I hope that helped a little bit. We are so thankful, friends, for your participation.

Before you go away, please bear with me as I remind you that this is a faith ministry. Some of you have been listening and studying God's Word with us for years, and we've never heard from you. Please, just take a moment, drop us a line. We'd love to have you put something in the envelope to help us stay on this station, and maybe even add other stations.

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