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An Oasis In The Desert

Date: 03/07/2004 
A team of Russian scientists searching for oil and gas in the Sahara desert recently discovered an underground river. After drilling through 820 feet of volcanic rock, the powerful river was tapped from providing a flow of 160 gallons of cold water a minute.
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Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? A team of Russian scientists searching for oil and gas in the Sahara desert recently discovered an underground river. After drilling through 820 feet of volcanic rock, the powerful river was tapped from providing a flow of 160 gallons of cold water a minute. The abundant new stream from this miracle river adds up to about 10,000 gallons per hour.

For the 50,000 people in the parched town of Atar and over time this bonanza of water could transform the dry and dusty town in northwest Africa into an oasis. The amazing thing is that this river of life under the desert was found by using satellite images from space. Did you know that the Bible teaches we all can have a spiritual artesian spring flowing from within us? Stay with us friends and we are going to learn more as “Amazing Facts” brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live”.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: Welcome friends to a fresh installment of “Bible Answers Live”. This is a live, International, interactive Bible study adventure and if you would like to participate you can do so by listening or by calling in on a Bible question and praying for us as we venture into the unknown. The phone number to participate is 1-800-GOD-SAYS that’s 1-800-463-7297 and we have several lines open if you’d like to pick up your phone now and call you have a good prospect of getting your question onto tonight’s program at 1-800-GOD-SAYS that is 1-800-463-7397. Tonight Pastor Dick is out and I will with the help of my studio entourage here be winging it. So hope you’ll be praying for me. I’d like to begin by praying for the program. So please join me friends.

Dear Lord we do thank you for the technology that makes this whole episode possible. We are very thankful Lord that the word of God is free. And we can broadcast it to those that are listening. We pray that you would supply the gift of the Holy Spirit tonight to give us understanding as we seek to better know your will for our lives and what truth is. Thank you for hearing or prayer as we pray in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Well friends I was talking in our opening about the amazing fact of this underground river in an area known as Mauritania and they discovered this river using technology I guess that is supposed to help identify oil and gas reserves from satellites up in space. And I could not help but think what a precious treasure that would be for dry parched town in the Sahara to suddenly be blessed with ten thousand gallons of cold water per hour. It just changed the whole town and made the whole town some wealth and no doubt there will soon be a golf course. But it also made me think about where it says in John Chapter 4: 14 that whoever drinks of the water that I shall give will never thirst, but the water that I give him will become a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. Friends in the word of God and in Jesus who is the word you can find that living water and tonight we have a free book we’d like to send you simply for the asking and it is a free book and a free phone call. And it is called “Life in the Spirit” if you would like a copy of this free resource to enrich and refresh and saturate your dehydrated soul then pick up your phone and dial our resource number. It is a little different than th studio number 1-800-835-6747 tell them you are listening to “Amazing Facts” and “Bible Answers Live” and you would like to request the book by Joe Crews “Life in the Spirit”.

Pastor Doug: Now we also have a couple of internet questions that we have taken right off the top that we are going to attempt to answer.

Question: The first one is asking. My husband and I were told that children should be a certain age to participate in the Communion Service. And they are asking what your opinion is? Do you have an answer for this?

Pastor Doug: My answer would be that Christ gave two institutions to the church and one being baptism and the other being the communion service or what we call the Lord’s Supper. And in the same way the criteria for baptism is a comprehension of what the service means. A young person should be old enough to comprehend the basics of the gospel and what it means to receive the cleansing that Christ offers and they should also understand for the Lord’s Supper that it is the symbolism of the grape juice and the bread as the body and the blood of Jesus that was given for our forgiveness. And when they are old enough to grasp these concepts and when they are old enough to be baptized obviously they are old enough to participate in the Communion Service and the Lord’s Supper. You want little children to be provided it is something sacred and are taught to respect it.

Question # 2: Dear Sir, Does the Bible have discrepancies? What about this one? Where in Luke Chapter 9: 28 it says after about eight days Jesus brought His disciples up the mountain to pray. And that is at the Mount of Transfiguration but in Matthew and again in Mark 9 it says it was six days later. So some would say this is a conflict.

Pastor Doug: I would say that the Bible does have apparent discrepancies, but my experience has been then the closer you look at them that you can find consistency. For instance where it says in Luke after about eight days and Matthew and Mark say it was six days. If Luke is telling the story well he is writing the story about fifty years later and he is estimating it was little more than a week. Which it was actually six days about is where he saw there is no discrepancy there. You can also look in the Bible where for instance above the head of Jesus that if you read in the gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John it records something different written above the head of Jesus. Some say “King of the Jews”. Some say “Jesus King of the Jews” and “Jesus of Nazareth” and they are all a little different. So you see it is a little different in each gospel and some have said these are the discrepancies in the Bible and they forget that the statement above Jesus’ head was written in three different languages in Hebrew, Geek and Latin. So this was that the different gospel writers were very likely quoting from of the ten dialects. Having said that we would think that would pave the way to get to phones and before we do I want to remind our listeners that you can also listen online by going to the “Amazing Facts” website and that is “Amazing Facts dot org” or “dot com” and that will lead you to a whole library where have free information that you can download and archive so of these programs. And many of the questions that come in the popular ones and a broad spectrum of other things that will help you in your study and those of you who are teachers will enjoy that as well.

Now I think it is probably time to go to the phones and I think we are going to start by talking out to Jerry in New Jersey and listening on 57 A M hi Jerry. How can we help you?

Jerry: Hi a pleasure to speak with you. My question is when Jesus was on the cross and He said why hast thou forsaken me what did He mean? What was in His heart?

Pastor Doug: Well for one thing everything that He did on the cross was perfect fulfillment of prophecy Jerry when Jesus said, “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?” Do you have a Bible handy?

Jerry: No I don’t, sir.

Pastor Doug: Well let me read for you if you look in Psalms 22 of the Bible this is a Psalm that is known as a messianic Psalm. It is a Psalm where it prophesies the coming of the Messiah. Here is the first verse. “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?” Now that verse was written by King David a thousand years before Jesus would die on the cross. Christ was quoting from that Psalm hoping that we would go back to this Psalm and people say well what He was quoting that in this Psalm He predicts His sufferings.

Jerry: What was the number? I am sorry.

Pastor Doug: Psalm 22: 1 the first verse of Psalm 22 is what Jesus uttered on the cross. Something else that you might consider is that it was the custom among the Jews that the High Priest would quote from the Psalms on Passover. And Jesus is our High Priest and there He was on the cross quoting from the Psalm that talked about His sacrifice. How perfect. He was also inviting people to consider why was Jesus forsaken by the Father? He was forsaken by the Father because He took our sins and He was separated from the Father and He took our separation. So there is a great deal of spiritual meaning in all of this. Okay?

Jerry: I see thank you very, very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Thank you and I appreciate your question.

Jerry: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Next I think we are going to talk to Chris who has a question from St. Petersburg, Florida and listening on the internet. Welcome Chris.

Chris: Yes good evening Pastor Doug. I have a question on Ezekiel Chapter 1 and there is a vision that Ezekiel is describing on there the creatures will you please explain that to me?

Pastor Doug: Ezekiel Chapter 1?

Chris: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Well Ezekiel Chapter one I got questions on that all the time. I think I had one last week from someone asking about the wheel within the wheel. So I like to remind the people that trying to explain when I only have 3 minutes roughly for each call and is like trying to see Yosemite you know through a peep hole. It is really hard to do it in a small segment like this, but Ezekiel is shown into heaven. He is shown these wheels within the wheels which I think communicate something which is the mystery of life. The galaxies are wheels within a wheel. Around the throne of God he sees these creatures. And they have different faces. One has got a face like a lion and one has a face like an eagle and if you look and another has a face like an ox and another has a face like a calf. You look in Revelation 4: 7 and you will notice the first creature is like a lion, the other creature like a calf, the third creature was like a man and he fourth was like an eagle. It’s telling us about the images around God that help us to understand His dimensions.

Some scholars have compared these creatures around the throne of God to the four gospels. Each gospel talks about a different picture of God. One gospel talks about Jesus as the lion of the tribe of Judah. Luke who was the physician talks about Jesus the man. Jesus talks about Jesus the calf the sacrifice. Mark talks about Jesus as the eagle the speed and the fastest of the gospels and so there are these different dimensions of God’s character. So there is so much there that I can only give it a little snippet and you might find more on that if you will go to our website okay?

Chris: Yes what is the lesson on the website?

Pastor Doug: Just “Amazing Facts dot org” and in the search window you might type in Ezekiel and see what you get.

Chris: Alright thanks.

Pastor Doug: Alright thanks a lot Chris.

Pastor Doug: Next we are going to talk to Alex. How do you say that Mathura, Massachusetts? Alex are you there?

Alex: Yes. I’m here.

Pastor Doug: Hi and your question?

Alex: My question is half political and half Biblical. But, my question is on gay marriage and they just legalized it actually at the end of May. I was just wondering what your view is on that. Not whether homosexuality is a sin because I know it is and of course I believe it is a sin. But, do you believe that we as Christians should vote for those that would support gay marriage and do you think that goes through the meaning of the institution of marriage as mentioned in the Bible?

Pastor Doug: Alright well first of all you have sort of answered your own question. Because you said you believe that the Bible says practicing homosexuality lifestyle is a sin. Obviously two people of the same sex marrying is a blatant example of that sin. What they are going to be doing is they are going to be practicing that behavior in that relationship. I have got a lot of really serious issues with what is happening to our society with even overtures of accepting gay marriage or homosexual marriage. For one thing the only reason the government got involved in marriage is because there were laws designed to protect the offspring. To make sure that two adults did not come together and produce offspring and then not care for them so there is a certain law there. Gay people do not naturally produce offspring.

I mean there is a mismatch in the plumbing that provides for that and then of course they will argue well we’re adopting and more and more of them are doing that I think specifically to try to vindicate a gay lifestyle and to normalize it. But, if they say we are consenting adults and they really should allow it then here’s the question for you Alex. If the government said well we shouldn’t really get involved because they are consenting adults then what is wrong with three people getting married? What is wrong with polygamy and maybe the Mormons were right, do you see what I am saying?

Alex: Yes I do.

Pastor Doug: And then what the next step is people will say well as long as you have got consenting adults. There are some people who have an interest in animals and what if somebody wanted to marry a sheep you know? And it needs to be consenting? I mean where is it going to go?

Alex: But, what about the separation of church and state though?

Pastor Doug: Well let me explain something about the separation of church and state. The Ten Commandments were written on two tables of stone. The first four commandments the government should never get involved in. The first four commandments Alex deal with our relationship with God. The first four tell us what He looks like and how to worship Him.

The last six commandments are very civil and social in nature and no culture can survive without respecting those. Those are commandments like do not steal and shouldn’t the government support that? Do not lie or perjure. When you covet somebody’s property then you have got these bizarre lawsuits like our court system is absolutely congested in law suits because everybody is coveting.

A marriage should be respected and that is one of the Ten Commandments in the civil code between a man and a woman and all of these issues about children are on what we call the second table of the Ten Commandments. Separation of church and state minas the state is not supposed to dictate who we are supposed to worship and how we are supposed to worship. So there has to be some moral absolutes. You have probably heard of Roger Williams?

Alex: Yes actually and I was listening to you one time before and you mentioned Roger Williams. And I really thought he would be for gay marriage because you said you agree with him entirely and thought he was from a non denominational church.

Pastor Doug: Well Roger Williams was not for gay marriage. Roger Williams was for the separation of church and state, but this is what Roger Williams did. He said the government should not get involved in the first four commandments. He made that distinction, but the government must support the last six. Do you see what I am saying?

Alex: Umm-hmm.

Pastor Doug: So I would not vote for political leaders that would vote for gay marriage. I think that I would question their judgment if they don’t see where that is trending. Okay? I hope that helps you.

Alex: Yes. Okay thank you. Umm-hmm. Bye.

Pastor Doug: Okay let’s see who do we have waiting here? We’re going to talk to is it Gill on line six from New York, New York on WMCA. Gill welcome.

Gill: Hi you have a very tender voice and thank you. God bless you. I am really glad to speak to you and be on your program. It has been years since I have called in.

Pastor Doug: Well thank you we are glad you called and your question tonight?

Gill: Yes basically I wanted to know about Romans I think Chapter 15: 7 it says accept one another in Christ. You know like Christ accepted you and I think it is also 2 Colossians 2:15.

Pastor Doug: Yes alright well let me just quickly try to answer you. You have raised several issues here.

Gill: Thank you and I am not trying to be controversial. I love you in Christ.

Pastor Doug: No that is not that’s fine and I only addressed it when people call and ask this question, but I have to share my convictions. I had lunch this week twice with a Priest. He is a Sabbath keeping Priest. And his congregation of course they worship on Sunday, but he said look if I am going to go by the Bible I can’t escape it. He asked if I would fly to Phoenix and speak to seventy-five other priests about this truth because they are all asking these questions. And I am not going to be able to make it, but I was still honored that they invited me. But, the issue is and I think this is what I hear you asking is it being controversial to discuss this and will there be people in heaven who went to church on Sunday instead of Saturday the seventh instead on the first day. There is going to be millions of people who went to church on Sunday. I’ve always said that, but there are not going to be people in heaven who knowingly violated God’s commandments after they know what God’s will is. Now my Scripture is Hebrews 10: 26 it says if we continue to sin willfully after we have received knowledge of the truth. Let me give you an example. Do you believe that David the patriarch that killed Goliath will he be in heaven?

Gill: Yes.

Pastor Doug: I think so, too.

Gill: I am not sure about Saul though.

Pastor Doug: Well I don’t think Saul will be there I agree. But, King David I believe will be there. Now you do realize that King David had way too many wives, but he is going to be there because he lived in a day when they lived in ignorance and they just didn’t understand. If I go and take an additional wife I am not going to make it. I know better. David had slaves. He lived in an age of darkness that God winked at their ignorance. Well if I were to go—but, of course there is nowhere in the world today to do that—If I had a slave—I wouldn’t make it because I know better. Do you see what I am saying?

Gill: Yes.

Pastor Doug: It is in the same category and it is one of the Ten Commandments. And if people know that God wants us to keep the Sabbath and it says right in the law remember and He says what day is blessed and they say well I am going to do what is popular instead of doing what God says. Well that I think is a very dangerous position.

Gill: Right it is known. But, Shouldn’t David have known that since Deuteronomy Chapter 17: 17 talks about that you are not to multiple wives or something if I remember correctly.

Pastor Doug: You are correct that God had warned the Kings not to multiple wives, but you know what they all had a different idea about what multiplication was. Solomon thought that a 1000 wives wasn’t multiplication, but look what happened to Solomon too many wives. Probably need to move o Gill.

Gill: Alright I love you.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless you. Thanks so much. Next we are going to talk to and let me see who has been waiting. Naquila did I say that right?

Naquila: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Listening on WOCG in Huntsville, Alabama welcome to the program.

Naquila: Hi and thank you. My question is this. If in sleep you are unconscious.

Pastor Doug: Get real close to your phone and go ahead.

Naquila: Just like if you are dead and you don’t know anything and can’t respond to anything and the disciples who went to the Garden of Gethsemane with Jesus they were asleep while He prayed and if they were unconscious how do they know what He prayed for it to be recorded as the gospel? I have my suspicions, but I wanted to hear from you.

Pastor Doug: Well that is a very good question. I have heard that before and the Bible doesn’t tell us, but we can speculate a couple of things. For one thing Jesus spent another forty days teaching and opening the Scriptures and explaining a lot of questions they had after He rose. In John he said Jesus when you were in the Garden we thought we fell asleep what were you praying? And he could have told them because they had time with Him after that. And another thing you need to keep in mind is that the apostles were prophets. And God revealed things to them in visions many times.

Naquila: That was my thought.

Pastor Doug: And so the Lord may have revealed this to them as they were writing all these things in the accounts in a vision what happened

Naquila: Umm-hmm.

Pastor Doug: So the Bible isn’t clear how they had that information, but they could have had it from the mouth of Jesus. This could be or it could have been divinely revealed. I hope that helps, okay?

Naquila: Yes it does and thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thanks so much I appreciate your question. Let’s see if we can squeeze in one more call here and I only have a couple of minutes left. Chris before our break can we do a quick question calling from San Ramona, California.

Chris: Yeah hi Doug. My question is I am a protestor and I was wondering if like the Bible says—it condones me protesting issues like abortion and stuff like that and I was just wondering if you have any Bible reference and I just wanted to hear what you have to say about it.

Pastor Doug: Well I do think you can be a Christian and be vocal for a just cause. I mean there are so many examples of that in the Bible. We want to do it in a spirit of love and do it while we submit to authority and be respectful. But, that doesn’t mean we should silence our voice. Praise the Lord our government is designed where it protects the freedom of expression and protestor. And if you think you are connected to a just cause and you don’t articulate that the unjust causes all end up winning. So you want to do it in a good spirit.

Chris: Like a peaceful demonstration or something like that?

Pastor Doug: Oh yeah Christians should always be peaceful not violent. Jesus is our model.

Chris: And then I was wondering when John the Baptist he told Herod about one of his wives.

Pastor Doug: Right that he shouldn’t have had Herodias as his wife.

Chris: Now what if we see the government go into pass laws that we think are wrong. Shouldn’t we maybe be like John the Baptist and go before the government?

Pastor Doug: Well yes I think you ought to use every legal opportunity to express your views in writing or in speech. You just want to make sure you do it in a Christ-like spirit because the worst thing you can do is have a good message in a bad method.

Chris: Right.

Pastor Doug: And you want to have the right method by doing it in the spirit of Christ with His attitude. But, there is certainly lots of Bible support for speaking up on behalf of what is right even though it may be unpopular among many. Just think about people like Elijah.

Chris: Okay so it is okay to be a protestor then?

Pastor Doug: Yes, but you don’t want to live just to protest everything.

Chris: No. I just meant on the real serious issues that I feel are wrong. What it is I just don’t want to not do anything and watch evil do whatever it wants. You know I feel like that by not doing something I am condoning it.

Pastor Doug: That’s right.

Chris: Or you know not trying to take a stand somehow.


Pastor Doug: Well I think you have both Biblical and social support for being able to articulate in good spirit just causes or to speak out against injustice. My advice to you Chris would be make sure you are not living for the purpose of protesting because you don’t only want to be against things because there are a lot of things you can be for.

Chris: Right and Amen.

Pastor Doug: Do you see what I am saying?

Chris: Yes.


Pastor Doug: And thanks so much for your question. I appreciate the call and a good question. Listening friends we are going to a break in just a moment and I don’t know if that gives us time for anther call, but that gives us time to make an important announcement. Do we have time for another call? Oh alright let’s just do that then. I was just rambling away because I thought we were getting ready to go to the break. Hello Alfred calling from New York on WMCA. Alfred you are on the air.

Alfred: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi welcome to the program.

Alfred: How are you Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: Very well and your question? How are you doing?

Alfred: Alright and I have a question please. The apostle Paul after Saul had the ability to be a Pastor. In Ephesians 3: 1, 2 & 3 he said that he was sent by the Lord Jesus Christ to the Gentile.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Alfred: And he said to him that Jesus released to him a secret. That was because this relation with Jesus was to him and was to the greater cause of to fate. This followed the apostle and the gospel of Jesus when He was a minister.

Pastor Doug: Well Alfred I don’t see a conflict between the teachings of Paul and his gospel to the Gentiles and the gospels of Jesus. I believe they are the same gospel. And the teachings of Paul are in perfect harmony with the teachings of Jesus and the gospel that goes to the Gentiles is the same gospel that goes to the Jews.

Alfred: But, why he says there is a secret?

Pastor Doug: Well the reason that he said that is that information had been kept secret. Their eyes had been hidden from that information. They hadn’t realized it. But, it doesn’t mean that it was something that God was trying to keep from them. Okay listening friends that is the signal that I was looking for an about to take our break and I apologize for the confusion a few minutes earlier. But, if you still have a Bible question you can pick up your phone and call 1-800-GOD-SAYS or 1-800-463-7297. Don’t go away we will be back I a few minutes and remember the free offer today is “Life in the Spirit” if you’d like a copy of this classic by Joe Crews we’ll send it to you just for asking and dial 1-800-835-6747 to get it and tell them you are listening to “Amazing Facts”. We’ll be right back.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: If you have just tuned in you have found your way to “Bible Answers Live” where we are taking live Bible questions from around the country and around the world and some on the internet. And if you want to call in with your question that number is 1-800-GOD-SAYS or 1-800-463-7297. And we are going to go right back to the phones and Pastor Dick has the night off. So I am doing pilot and navigator. We are talking to Mike calling from a cell phone in Bakersfield, California on KARM welcome Mike you are on the air.

Mike: Thank you I have had a problem for many years that I have prayed about and I fast over every once in awhile and you know every time I fast it seems like my problem gets worse. And I was wondering if you can respond to that.

Pastor Doug: Well I am not sure and I don’t want to go into the specifics, but first of all fasting and praying and the purpose of fasting is to do basically a couple of things. First it is to humble yourself and deny ourselves to focus on God and to simplify our intake physically to allow our minds to be a little more acute. You know a certain percentage of your energy and your mind goes to digestion. And when you fast your mind can be a little more clear and alert. Something actually happens to your circulation and your blood is a little clearer and you are able to think a little clearer and maybe hear that voice of the Holy Spirit. But, I don’t know why unless you are struggling with something that has to do with your appetite that is something that could really make it more difficult. But, my experience has been that when I fast and pray, I took a day last week to fast and pray and I really felt the presence of God and very close to the Lord and heard Him speaking to me because the volume goes up a little bit when I am fasting and praying. So I don’t know what your personal experience has been. Do you read the word also when you are fasting and praying?

Mike: No I typically just continue to pray.

Pastor Doug: Because one of the primary ways that god will strengthen us during that time and when you are fasting from physical food don’t deny yourself spiritual food. When Jesus was fasting He quoted the Bible three times in the wilderness while He was fasting. And so I suggest you mingle some Bible verses as you are fasting and you may find that the added—you know you can stand better on two legs than one. Maybe that is the added leg that you need.

Mike: Right. Okay Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Pastor Doug: Thanks for your question. Okay we are going to talk next with let’s see here—where is Pastor Dick when I need him? Alright we have a question from J.L. in Manhattan on WMCA in New York your question?

J.L.: Thank you for taking my call. Yes I have a question on 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2: 3 through 8 and will you be so kind to read these verses?

Pastor Doug: Okay 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 through 8 that is a lot of verses which one in particular do you want?

J.L.: In particular the one that –there are two things that must happen before the Lord Jesus Christ comes according to the text there and I am reading and I would like for you to find them there. It is there must be a falling away which is the apostasy before Satan and the man of sin revealed. This man of sin will exalt himself above all things which is above God and is worshipped so he is like God sitting in the temple of God. Showing himself to be God and here the Holy Spirit in the King James says that the Holy Spirit will hold him and this is when the Holy Spirit is taking them away. So can you explain to me in this association who—how will we see churches falling? Next and right in this era about how this applies to the end times that God has given us the revelation that yes there is apostasy going to happen. And the man of sin who can be identified very clearly in the Bible is Satan sitting in the temple. Can you expound on that?

Pastor Doug: Yes and first of all I think you’re making a very common mistake in assumption. It is whether Satan is sitting in the temple now? I am asking you.

J.L.: Well yes the question is that we know that God working progressive in Revelation that in other words we have many people who have studied eschatology have given hundreds of versions who is this man of sin. But, we know there are only two kingdoms in the Bible. There is the kingdom of Satan and the Kingdom of God and this is the spiritual kingdom it is a spiritual one.

Pastor Doug: Well just let me pardon me let me interrupt you for a second here J. L.The reason I asked you that question about the sanctuary or the temple is when Jesus the veil was torn in the earthly temple it was destroyed a few years later and Jesus said your house has left you desolate. Destroy this temple made with hands and I will make one without hands. Christ’s church is His body. His body is the temple of God. The church and Peter says we are living stones built up into a spiritual house. And you can also find this in Ephesians Chapter 2 so when we read in your verse in 2 Thessalonians 2: 4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” I believe that it is telling us about the beast power sitting above the church of God in the position of God to be worshipped. So that temple is not necessarily a physical temple.

J.L.: Oh no, no. Basically we know clearly that the Bible ahs taught them even in the Old Testament we have the tabernacle when we have the temple by Solomon. In Matthew 27 we see the holy temple is not there because God has a destination of a spiritual temple. Like in 2 Corinthians Chapter 3 and that temple is made up of two people it is the tares and the wheat gold, silver and precious stones.

Pastor Doug: Well I am still not sure I’m—you know we are in harmony on a lot you are saying—you know what specifically is your question.

J.L.: Well if the man of sin can sit in the temple how comes that temple hasn’t become apostate and desolated according to Matthew 24: 15?

Pastor Doug: Alright let me answer you. Now I think I understand. When you get to Revelation which is the clearest picture of these prophesies you can see there are two women. A woman represents the church. One woman is in Revelation 17 she is the harlot. She is the unfaithful church and she is drunken with the blood of the saints and she has committed fornication with the kings of the earth. This is a church that is mingling with the State and it is corrupt. Then you go to Revelation 12 and you have go that other woman standing on the moon clothed with the stars above her head. God said to the church you are the light of the world this is God’s bride. You will have both types until the end and there will come a day when the beast power is in full power he is going to make religious laws and start telling people how to worship. Now we have Judas’s in the church, but I don’t believe that the devil has control of God’s church at this point. There will come a time when he has apparent control of the external church. But, God’s true spiritual people are still intact. So I don’t know does that help answer your question?

J.L.: Yes when you say external church do you mean there is an internal and external church?

Pastor Doug: Well in every church there are people who are genuine and there are people who are counterfeit. They call them wheat and tares. Just like when Jesus walked the earth there was a Judas and there was a John. That is all that I am saying, but Revelation predicts a day coming when that beast power is going to really have control of the external church.

J.L.: And that will be by Satan himself?

Pastor Doug: Well Satan will be the power behind it, but I think there is going to be a political religious system that he is going to operate through. You know what I would like to recommend because this is a big study? Take a look at our study guide on the beast and the mark of the beast. And I think if you haven’t read that already J.L. You’ll be really blessed by that. If you call 1-800-835-6747 we’ll send that to you for free if you’ll tell them you are listening to “Amazing Facts”. Next we are going to talk to I think it is Reynold in Spokane, Washington on KEEH welcome.

Reynold: Thank you for your time I enjoy your show very much, sir.

Pastor Doug: Thank you.

Reynold: The question I have is I’m working with a couple of ladies that are ex witches. One of them of them is a Christian and the other one isn’t. I am running into a problem with one of them concerning how to deal with her and she’s just totally out in left field and half the time she is not going down the straight and narrow. I need help on saying the right words, but I am patient as much as I can be and it is wearing on my soul right now. But, I might have to shake the dust off my feet and forget about this one lady.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Well I commend you for having the fortitude to be able to witness to someone that is so co-mingled with occult teaching. Of course you know it says in Exodus 20: 18 that you shall not suffer a sorcerer or a witch to live, but it doesn’t mean you are supposed to execute her. But, when you study with these people you want to make sure you are in the position of teaching and giving and not receiving because you are on enchanted grounds so to speak when you begin to work with these folks and it can be draining to your soul, but at the same time if the Lord has laid these people on your heart and you are open to studying then by all means see if you can bring them around.

Reynold: Yes I have.

Pastor Doug: But, if you are not seeing any progress and this may sound a little bit cold-hearted, but if you are not seeing any progress don’t throw what is holy to the dogs. In other words you have time to maybe save people who may be productive. Don’t ever waste your time with people who you don’t believe will ever bear fruit.

Reynold: You are so good to me Doug.

Pastor Doug: Well it’s the truth and I appreciate your confidence and that is kind of a tough decision. But, sometimes we spend a long time trying to farm in soil that has no nutrients and nothing is going to grow.

Reynold: Give me an E for effort.

[Laughter]

Pastor Doug: That’s right. The Lord will bless you for that.

Reynold: Well thank you for your time and God bless.

Pastor Doug: Alright Reynold and God bless you for your efforts. We’re talking next to Tony on line ten on WMCA in Bronx, New York welcome Tony.

Tony: Good afternoon Pastor Doug Batchelor. How are you?


Pastor Doug: Thank you for your patience.

Tony: Okay brother no problem my question tonight is what is the significance of the number forty in the Bible? I think that it is forty years Moses in Egypt, forty years with Jethro, forty years back I the wilderness.

Pastor Doug: Well you’re very perceptive. I think the number forty occurs about 157 times and n about 145 verses and so that means there is a disproportional number of times that that number appears so there must be something to that or some special meaning and I believe that is true. There are about five or six numbers that seem to have some kind of symbolic meaning in the Bible and continue to reappear which are of course the number seven, twelve, three, ten and forty. And am sure there are others, but those are the primary ones. Forty in the Bible represents a generation. Now let me give you a couple of examples to illustrate that. When the children of Israel did not believe that the Lord would bring them into the Promised Land God says you will wander until this generation dies off. You can find that whole story I Numbers 14 and they wandered forty years until that generation died away. When you go to the book of judges you will notice that the generations are measured in forty and sometimes there was that forty years of peace, there was twenty years of peace and eighty years of peace and of course they are all divisible by forty. The Christ said and I think this is one of the most powerful proofs Tony when Jesus was predicting the fall of Jerusalem he made this prophecy in A.D. 30. He said this generation will not pass until these things be fulfilled. And one of the things He predicted was that the temple will be destroyed and there would not be one stone left upon another. He made that prediction in 30 A.D. and forty years later the Romans destroyed the temple and they knocked every stone out trying to get the gold out of the fire that had burned the temple. And He used the word generation and it perfectly fulfilled forty years passed. So forty I think represents a generation.

Tony: That is a plus I was really looking for and I really enjoy the program and I listen every Sunday.

Pastor Doug: Well thank you so much and keep listening and tell all of your friends and enemies to tune in.

[Laughter]

Tony: You are welcome. Alright Pastor have a good evening.

Pastor Doug: God bless you.

Tony: You, too.

Pastor Doug: Alright we’re going to—hang on one second here—okay I am on with Chris to take a tough question. Are you there Chris who is calling from New Jersey on WMCA. Welcome.

Chris: Yes I am. Hello and how are you? I am pleased to be able to ask my question. If you would kindly tell me is it Biblical for women to be ministers? I am in a protestant denomination and I am seeing more women coming in and I don’t know if it is proper.

Pastor Doug: Alright let me tell you what the Bible says because this is a politically volatile question and certainly what I believe is not politically correct. There’s no question that women have the gifts o f the spirit and in those gifts they have got gifts of teaching and preaching. I mean most men that are married will think that women know how to preach, but I just don’t mean to be derogatory, but couldn’t resist that little bit of humor. At the same time that is a different issue of women being ordained as pastors because you do find examples in the Bible of women serving in the capacity of prophetess. I like to use the example of where Jochebed and Amram had three children and all three children were prophets, Miriam, Aaron and Moses. All three children can you imagine that were prophets. But, only the boys served as priests and Miriam there obviously go the distinction of preaching and teaching because that is what prophecy is, but only the boys could serve in the capacity of Pastor. Now the word Pastor comes from a Sheppard and the one who Sheppards the flock and there is a different word for Sheppard and Sheppardess. And never do we in the Bible have an example and this is what I am stuck on because the Bible teaches this Chris-- I find no example in the Bible for a woman being ordained as a Pastor or an Elder or a Priest. When Jesus chose the twelve apostles I don’t believe he was just following tradition when He chose men.

Chris: Actually that was the point I raised when I was speaking about this at length earlier today. And I am wondering as our culture seems to be coming into the church are there some people if you will lax in the rules of the Bible in order to ordain women? They seem to keep coming in.

Pastor Doug: Well there is a couple of I think dynamics that are contributing one is that we can see the world making inroads from every angle. And another is I think there is an absence of men that are assuming the roles of men. And so women are naturally flowing into those voids and I will tell you that there are some churches that if it were not for the women you don’t know what would happen. But, it doesn’t mean it justifies the ordaining of women as Pastors, but the women are stepping in because there is a dearth of men who are not willing to be spiritual leaders.

Chris: Can the Lord who knew in the Bible weren’t endorsing them and the Pastors and the Priests and followed them and they knew the truth and you are in a church that had a female Pastor just because it has been appointed that way, but you know it is not Biblically correct. But, when we stand before the Lord and we know that is that going to be held against us?

Pastor Doug: Well yes I think that when there is any incidence of a person knowing God’s will and knowing what the word of God says and are following popular trends instead of the word of God that we are accountable for that. Now I have written an article are you able to get on the internet Chris?

Chris: I am.

Pastor Doug: I have got this article called “Unisex and Jesus” and why I wrote it about this at length. So if you go to the “Amazing Facts” website and search under our magazine articles and I think they are called “The Inside Report” “Unisex and Jesus” is there and I think if you read that then you can let me know what you think. But, I think we probably need to keep moving because we are running out of time.

Chris: Well I thank you so much for your time. God bless you bye-bye.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless you. Talking now to Ann who is in Queens, New York. Thank you for waiting patiently and your question Ann?

Ann: Yes I have wanted to know about the mark of the beast. I have heard a lot about it and some have said that it is actually a computer chip. And I wanted to know more about that.

Pastor Doug: Alright I’ll do my best and first of all it is a big question. And I can’t answer it all in one. There is a book that you can request and it is a study guide and it is simply called “The Mark of the Beast”. But, let me tell you something and I is just a little bit that I think will help. There is a major misconception that when it says in Revelation a mark in the hand or in the forehead and that means it must be some kind of a computer chip or a tattoo. You have probably heard that. A few years ago everybody was afraid we were going to get the bar code in our hands or our forehead remembers when that first came out?

Ann: Yes, sir.

Pastor Doug: Well they are misunderstanding what the Bible is saying. If you read in Deuteronomy Chapter 6 you will probably remember where Moses says hear O Israel the Lord our God is one and love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.

Ann: Yes, sir.

Pastor Doug: The next verse 60 says “These words that I command you today will be in your heart.” Well that is obviously symbolic because it means in our affection right. It doesn’t mean we cut open our chest and put it in our heart. Teach them diligently to your children when you lay down and when you rise up and notice what it says here “You shall bind them for a sign on your hand and then the frontlets between your eyes.” Now you can find this verse you go to Deuteronomy 11: 18 “Lay up these words on your heart and bind them as a sign on your hand and the frontlets between your eyes.” You go to Exodus 13:9 “It shall be a sign for you on your hand and a memorial between your eyes that the Lord’s law might be in your mouth.” Very simply in the Bible in the hand means action and in the forehead means in the thoughts and those that do not have the word of God in their hands and in their heads and in their hearts will have the mark of the beast in their hand and their foreheads. And there is something more specific that I think you will be more interested in so I recommend that you send for that lesson okay?

Ann: Okay heads means what and your hand means your actions.

Pastor Doug: Your head means your thoughts. Right even the Jews understood that you thought with your head and when people got hit in the head they didn’t think right anymore. So they said the law of God was to be in our hands the action and in our heads in our worship our thoughts. It has nothing to do with the computer chip the devil has got a lot of people bamboozled by this.

Ann: Oh my goodness.

Pastor Doug: Send for the “Amazing Facts” study guide and it will take you through the whole series on prophecy okay?

Ann: Alright. And what is the title?

Pastor Doug: Well just go to “Bible Universe dot com” and it will take you for free through those study series. You can do it on line or you can order it.

Ann: Thank you so much. God bless you all.

Pastor Doug: Thank you Ann. God bless you. Now we’re talking to Susan in Iowa on the internet and welcome Susan.

Susan: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi and your question?

Susan: My question is evangelism and whether –oh I can’t think of the word—but, we actually are we have to evangelize people that we know or their blood is on our head because we haven’t told them about Christ?

Pastor Doug: Good question. There are two extremes. One extreme is to say well it is all the preacher’s job that if the Holy Spirit of God wants to reach people He will use His angels. The other extreme is that we feel responsible to everyone we see or drive buy or walk by to tell them about Jesus.

Susan: Well there are a couple of verses like in Acts.

Pastor Doug: You are talking about the innocence of the blood of all men Paul said.

Susan: Yes he said I am innocent and let the blood be upon your own head.

Pastor Doug: Right and then you can read in Ezekiel 33 where he says yes if you see the enemy coming you’ve got to blow the trumpet.

Susan: Yes that is where I was looking. If we don’t give warning and don’t do anything you know the blood is on your own head.

Pastor Doug: That’s true. Let me give you an example. If you are in your home and you have a family and you see a mudslide heading towards the house and if you don’t tell your family get out of the house and you only think of saving yourself then that is a selfish thing to do and you could be feeling guilty and be responsible for the others in your house. They probably would not hold you responsible for the whole neighborhood. Do you see what I am saying because you don’t want to say ll of a sudden the blood of the world is on your hands? So let me tell you how I cope with that. I pray that God will bring me everyday into contact with people who need to hear the gospel and I will recognize the opportunities in an inoffensive, unobnoxious way of sharing Jesus. God does not want you going around with a billboard around your neck saying the end is near and to repent so that you can free yourself from their blood.

Susan: Right.

Pastor Doug: Christ will lay people on your hart and give you those opportunities and He wants you to use your gifts. Your gifts may not be preaching and teaching, but whatever your gifts are use your gifts to spread the gospel. Otherwise you are guilty of wasting your talents and the blood of the lost. Okay? But, you begin with and Jesus says beginning in Jerusalem. That means your home and then Judah and that means maybe where you work and your family and then Samaria that would be the workplace and then the uttermost parts of the earth and everywhere else. See you started at home and you don’t want to act like you have got to reach the whole world. Okay?

Susan: Yes. Okay.

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps Susan and I am going to take one or two more calls.

Susan: Okay. Thanks.

Pastor Doug: Okay let’s see if we can capture Phil who has been waiting patiently in New York on WMCA welcome Phil.

Phil: Oh thank you Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: We only have a few minutes how can I help you Phil real quick?

Phil: My question is what was it specifically that Moses did that got God so angry that Moses didn’t get to see the Promised Land?

Pastor Doug: Well God said Moses did not honor Him before the people. The people became thirsty and even after God had supplied water miraculously Moses lost his temper. God told Moses speak to the rock and he got angry and disobeyed and struck it. There was to be a symbol that was lost and everything that Moses did have symbols of Christ. And he struck the rock twice and the whole symbol of what God had intended was lost and Moses lost his temper. And do you know what Moses said? Must we bring water out of the rock for you rebels? He made it sound like he and Aaron were doing it instead of God doing it. And God said whoa Moses. You can’t bring water out of the rock and I mean God gave them water that day, but He said look Moses you have blown it publically and because of your position of visibility you are more responsible. He did see the Promised Land a far off and Moses is in heaven now we know that because he appeared to Jesus during His life. But, he was not allowed to lead the people over because he had dishonored God.

Phil: So he lost his temper that is what kept him from being able to cross there.

Pastor Doug: Yes he lost his temper in the beginning when he killed the Egyptian and he lost his temper again and when he lost his temper and struck the rock and he yelled at it. Okay?

Phil: Alright and thank you Pastor Doug and God bless you.

Pastor Doug: And God bless you and I was going to see if I could squeeze one more in, but that just isn’t possible now. Listening friends before you change the dial keep us in your prayers. We do appreciate anything you can do to keep us on the air and are totally listener supported. If you make a donation of any size we will send you that book “The Best of Amazing Facts” it is from the Bible with hundreds of amazing facts from science and nature and history which is great for preachers and educators and teachers to use and even in your personal devotions and this for a donation of any size to help us stay on the air. Also, if you have joined us since we announced it last so much of what we do can be found at the “Amazing Facts dot org” or “dot com” website and you will find out what we are ding around the world, publishing, radio, evangelism, training and television. And thousands of other resources that are out there because Jesus is the truth that will set you free.

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The Life of Victory by Meade MacGuire

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