Cairo's City of the Dead

Date: 03/28/2004 
Years ago when visiting the northern part of Cairo, Egypt I saw the strangest cemetery on earth. It is called the city of the dead. The word cemetery is in fact a misnomer because this graveyard is actually teeming with life and activity.
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Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Years ago when visiting the northern part of Cairo, Egypt I saw the strangest cemetery on earth. It is called the city of the dead. The word cemetery is in fact a misnomer because this graveyard is actually teeming with life and activity. Over hundreds of years the rulers of ages past have built acres and acres of huge, elaborate mausoleums and tombs. Tradition dictated that each tomb be built with its own party room. Then during the fourteenth century due to lack of space, the poor and the homeless seeking shelter began squatting in these tombs. Strangely this cemetery is now classified as a suburb of Cairo.

It has no zip code, post office, police station, shopping or running water and sewage system. It is also rather interesting how the residents make use of the smaller gravestones by turning them into washing lines or tables. People actually live and conduct their lives in these tombs sleeping, eating and cooking surrounded by their macabre neighbors. The Bible teaches there are really only two classes of people the living and the dead. You might think this is an odd statement, but according to the living are alive and not all the dead are dead. Stay with us friends and we are going to learn more as “Amazing Facts” brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live”.


Pastor Doug: Welcome again listening friends to another edition of “Bible Answers Live” this is s live, International, interactive Bible study and you can participate whether you would like to call in or just listen to the different answers as they come and the Lord is dictating the schedule of this program because it is live and we don’t know which questions that people will be inspired to ask.

Pastor Dick: Amen.

Pastor Doug: But, if you have a question related to the Bible you can call this toll free number 1-800-GOD-SAYS or 1-800-463-7297 and the Bible is our source book. And my name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Debit. Good evening Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening Pastor Dick. It is good to be back and you are taking off tomorrow for Africa.

Pastor Dick: I am and I will be there for four weeks until the 28th of April.

Pastor Doug: What doing mission work?

Pastor Dick: I will be doing two of evangelistic service and a week of prayer.

Pastor Doug: Well in our prayer this evening we would like to include you and your wife I believe is going to accompany you?

Pastor Dick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: In this project and we will look forward to hearing a report about it when you get back.

Pastor Dick: We normally start the program with a word of prayer. So why don’t we do that. Father in heaven we praise you and thank you for love and your grace and your mercy. We thank you for the privilege of being able to share your word. And as my wife and I prepare to travel I pray that you will go before us Lord and that you will speak clearly to give us the courage and clearness of thought and all that is necessary to share the good news of you with the people we come in contact with there in Africa. And Lord I pray that your Holy Spirit will be here tonight and be with Pastor Doug and give him clarity of thought as we open the word of God and share with our callers tonight and as we seek answers from you. Speak clearly to us Lord and this is my prayer in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Dick: Well now Pastor Doug this is a fascinating amazing fact that you have had tonight this is an actual suburb of Cairo with the mausoleums all over the place and people living in them?

Pastor Doug: If I hadn’t seen them with my own eyes I would have wondered if it is true, but I have been there I have seen it and it is a city that is city that has grown up in the midst of the cemetery and because of their sacred regards for the remains of the dead they won’t disturb that, but they carry on their lives living around these tombs and the children playing around the coffins in the middle and sometimes in some cases they will have this big coffin in the middle of the room and they use it as a dinner table. And it is really strange and for years they would not even recognize it for city, but they delivered mail there and there’s a little electricity there and now of course it has gotten to be urban and it is one of the strangest things in the world, but it makes me think of where Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. And I remember the first time I heard that I thought I my mind and I conjured these zombies conducting funerals. I thought about what does this mean and the Lord really teaches there are two kinds of people. He that has the son has life and has not the son has not life.

The dead and the living are defined and divided by the Lord as those that do and do not know Jesus. Friend if you do not know Jesus you are spiritually dead. Paul in Ephesians 2: 1 he says there are people who are dead in their trespasses and sins. And then there are dead people although they are sleeping if they have everlasting life in Christ they are not technically dead. Jesus said I am not the God of the dead. Once He went and raised a little girl and they said she is dead and Jesus said she is sleeping she and Lazarus my friend are sleeping.

And so in God’s eyes if we die in Christ we are sleeping we are not really dead. And yet there are people who are walking around without Christ and they are dead in their sin. And so some people might have some questions about what this means and in some cases this world is the city of the dead isn’t it? A lot of people are living with a death sentence.

Pastor Dick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: And if they don’t know the Lord then they are conducting their lives surrounded by a death penalty.

Pastor Dick: All over the world there is this opportunity to share this truth about what happens to a person when they die. And we have a lesson that we haven’t offered in awhile. But the title is appropriate and it is called “Are the Dead Really Dead?” It is part of the “Amazing Facts” 27 Bible studies that have been put together and I want to encourage you to call our resource operators and as for a copy of this lesson. It’s called “Are the Dead Really Dead?” It talks about what happens to a person when they die. It will be an excellent addition to your library and you can also get this lesson at our website “Amazing Facts dot org”. But, call our resource operators about any of the resources we speak about tonight. 1-800-835-6747 is the number to write down and if you hear us mention resources whether books or lessons or what have you then call for it at 1-800-835-6747 and ask for “Are the Dead Really Dead?” WE have several lines that are still open 1-800-GOD-SAYS or 1-800-463-7297 will bring you right into the studios here and then since we have several lines still open that will give you a good time to call now. We will do our best to get you on the air in the next 55 minutes or so.

Pastor Doug we take internet questions a couple of them each week before we go to the phones. So let’s do that now with our first question. If a person has given their heart to the Lord and been baptized and are living daily surrendered to God should they still go forward at altar calls?

Pastor Doug: Well that would depend on the nature of the call and then what would the harm be. If the Holy Spirit is moving you then move. It may not be if every week the Pastor is making an altar call for people who are first accepting Jesus then if you go forward every week then that may send the wrong signal. And I do altar calls almost every week in my church and you usually have something mentioned that I am specifically inviting people to make and sometimes they are more general. And so it depends on the nature of the call. But, if sometime you feel inspired to reconfirm or recommit or to consecrate your life you can give your heart anew and the Spirit is moving you then move. And don’t be afraid to go up and for one thing I know I have a few in my church that may be sitting with some who have made a decision and they may go forward and bring someone with them.

Pastor Dick: Exactly.

Pastor Doug: And so you may inspire others to make that decision.

Pastor Dick: Often time’s people who are—who feel the tug of the Holy Spirit feel like their feet are nailed to the floor and they know they want to take that step forward.

Pastor Doug: The Lord is wooing them and the devil is trying to terrify them and so they act that way about that.

Pastor Dick: That’s right and so if someone else comes forward that makes it just a little bit easier to come forward also. Also one of the things that I try to encourage people about Pastor Doug is if you have given your heart to the Lord and you come forward later afterwards you may be able to help minister to a new person who comes forward. So if you feel the Spirit moving on you then by all means come forward.

Our next question is Doug is consistent viewing of pornographic images considered adultery in the sight of the Lord? This is an excellent question.

Pastor Doug: Well Jesus makes it clear in Matthew 5 that we can commit adultery in our hearts by looking on and lusting after the opposite sex. Of course it could be by today’s vernacular lusting for anybody. But, that would be C.S. Lewis out it this way he said something to an effect that some men have their own harem which women could never live up to and I always like to add I actually heard a man say one time. Well Jesus said that thinking it is as bad as doing it so I went ahead and did it. And Jesus never says that He doesn’t say thinking it is as bad as doing it. He says if there is an equivalency where you can commit adultery in your heart, but when you commit it in your heart that is one person, but when you commit the act that is two people committing the act as well as other people violating families and marriages. So by all means you might say well I am thinking about murder I may as well commit it. That is bad logic. So yes it is wrong and the Lord wants us to be pure in heart. If we are pure in heart we will see God.

Pastor Dick: Alright let’s go to the phones. Are you ready?

Pastor Doug: Well we’ll find out.

Pastor Dick: Okay. We’ll take our first caller for the evening from radio station WMCA in New York. We want to talk with Shelley who is in Mount Vernon, New York. Hello Shelley welcome.

Shelley: Hi good evening Pastor Doug and Pastor Dick.

Pastor Doug: Good evening.

Shelley: My question is about Luke Chapter 17: 26 & 27. And Jesus was talking about I think the last days and saying as it was in the days of Noah so it will be in the days of the son of man. My question is really centered on verse 27 where He says “They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” It says they were married to wives and given in marriage. Isn’t that like saying the same thing twice and would being given in marriage be like the gay marriage?

Pastor Doug: No I don’t think so. But, that is an interesting thought. But, when it says they married wives and were given in marriages that in the original Latin that phrase can mean given up on marriage. It means they were married and unmarried and many of the theologians think this might have been a reference to the rampant divorce statistics.

Shelley: Okay.

Pastor Doug: They married wives and they were given in marriage. See like other people think of this is that the men marry wives and the bride is given in marriage to be married to the man and it is kind of like two ways of saying the same thing. But, I do think the next verse refers to the same sex marriages. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded. Like in the days of Lot there was a problem there it was not the only problem, but certainly one of the obvious problems was homosexuality. And this whole idea homosexual being normalized is I think case of that.

Shelley: Oaky.

Pastor Doug: We are living in those days.

Shelley: Okay thank you very much. And may God be with Pastor Dick as he goes to Africa.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Dick: Thank you Shelley.

Shelley: Alright have a good evening.

Pastor Dick: Let’s go the Hermiston, Oregon and talk with Rick on KGTS how can we help you Rick?

Rick: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hello how are you doing?

Rick: Yes I have a question on Chapter 2 of Revelation verse 28. It says 28 And I will give him the morning star. What is the morning star?

Pastor Doug: Well the morning star is the brightest and first star seen as the day approached all of the other stars would fade in the lightening sky and often there would be one star and it was probably a planet that could still be seen and it was even when the others grow dim. And so it is a reference to a light that continues to get bright when the other lights go out. And so Jesus is often referred to as the morning star and of course there is a statement in Peter where he says as that day grows brighter and brighter until the day dawns in our hearts. If you look in Malachi Chapter 4: 2 but unto you who fear my name shall the son of righteousness will arise with healing in his wings. So you have got this reference to a rising light and Christ is often referred to as the lily of the valley, the bright and morning star and this are allegories of his nature.

Rick: This is going to be when we are in heaven?

Pastor Doug: No this is in Revelation Chapter 2 the seven messages to the seven churches Christ identifies himself by a different name to every age.

Rick: Oh.

Pastor Doug: And He identifies Himself with this church age as a light that continues to shine when the other lights have gone out.

Rick: Yes I was just thinking that in heaven we will already have Jesus in our hearts. So how does He give us the morning star?

Pastor Doug: Well that is true and matter of fact the Bible tells us that the light of the sun would be seven times brighter than it is now.

Rick: Umm-hmm.

Pastor Doug: And the light of the moon is like there as light as the sun now. That’s based on Isaiah, but anyway I hope that helps you a little bit.

Rick: Yes it does. Thanks Doug.

Pastor Doug: Well alright and thanks for your question?

Pastor Dick: It has been fascinating the last couple of nights to see the five planets that are all in view and very much in view of anytime.

Pastor Doug: I saw it more last night because we had cloudy weather where I was. But, it is spectacular I saw people just standing out on the country roads just looking up at the sky.

Pastor Dick: Yes. Really spectacular. Let’s go to St. Helens, Oregon where Steven is a repeat caller. Welcome Steven.

Steven: Hi how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Hi just fine and your question tonight.

Steven: Yes first I just wanted to thank Pastor Doug for his ministry and I think it is a wonderful thing you are doing. And I really appreciate because you have really led me close to the Lord with your truth.

Pastor Doug: Well thank you and praise God for that.

Steven: And my question is John 4: 23 &24 where it says the hour is coming where true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. For the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Because my church—is just I don’t know—it just seems like that we’re not really worshipping in Spirit and truth. We’re just kind of worshipping in I don’t know.

Pastor Doug: Formality?

Steven: Yes. And I was looking in my Strong’s concordance and I looked you this word spirit in this reference and it is the word pneuma and one of the definitions was vital principle and mental position and I was wondering if that would be the way that would be translated there?

Pastor Doug: Well let me read this for our listeners to in its context the woman at the well is asking Jesus where appropriate worship should be conducted because the Samaritans believed it was on Mount Garrison and the Jews believed that God had chosen Jerusalem or Mount Zion and they are arguing about what mountain. Now Christ when He walks out of the temple the last time at the beginning of His ministry he said you have made my Father’s house a den of thieves and He cleanses the sanctuary, but at the end of His ministry he walks out of the temple and says there will not be one stone left one stone upon another and your houses left you desolate. So you have to ask where the place of worship went after the death and resurrection of Christ. Jesus was saying the time is coming and he was putting His emphasis there where it is not going to be in a building or a mountain. But, God is going to be in His people through the baptizism of His Spirit.

You know the Holy Spirit was poured out in the Upper Room and they took it everywhere they went. So Christ was trying to prepare us to stop thinking about God meeting with us in some sacred temple rather He wants to dwell in the temple of our minds and hearts.

Steven: I see.

Pastor Doug: And that unfortunately in our modern churches today gravitate back to the idea that God is in the house somewhere and once we leave the church we leave Him behind. But, God wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth no matter where we are.

Steven: Right that is kind of what I was thinking. I feel like that, but I feel like the church experience is just so I don’t know it is like people are just playing church. We go there and we have this big thing and then we leave and we go back to our day you know.

Pastor Doug: We need a revival don’t we?

Steven: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Okay here I will give you some advice that I read one time. Get yourself a piece of chalk and go home and find a place on the floor where there is no carpet and draw a circle on the floor and then kneel inside that circle and say Lord start a revival in this circle and then try to create a epidemic and then take it to those that are around you. The church does need revival, but the best thing I can ask is that God will begin with me. Okay?

Steven: Amen. Thank you. I really appreciate that brother.

Pastor Dick: Thank you Steven for your call. Let’s go next to Fresno, California where Janelle is listening On KFIA welcome Janelle.

Janelle: Good evening.

Pastor Doug: Good evening.

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Janelle: Okay. My question is in reference to Psalm 103: 3 about 3 “Who forgiveth all thine iniquities who healeth all thy diseases” and what diseases is David talking about?

Pastor Doug: Well I think this is a broad statement of God is a God who is the source of all blessing and whenever we are healed He is the one who heals us of every type of disease. This is not a promise that God is going to heal all the people in the world of all their diseases. It is simply saying that everybody who I healed that it is God who heals us and God who blesses us. He is the one who forgives us and I don’t know if that is the answer that you are fishing for or not? Am I answering what you are asking?

Janelle: That is fine.

Pastor Doug: Okay are you struggling with something specifically that you are praying for a healing.

Janelle: No.

Pastor Doug: You just wanted to understand better what all of this means?

Janelle: Yes.

Pastor Doug: God is the one who forgives all our sins which is our spiritual sickness and He heals all of our physical sickness and that is what he is saying in this Psalm.

Janelle: Okay God bless you. Bye.

Pastor Doug: Okay? Thanks Janelle. Bye-bye.

Pastor Dick: To New York to WMCA is the station and Demetrius is a first time caller. Welcome Demetrius.

Demetrius: Yes. Thank you. I am glad to have an opportunity to speak to you and I have a question that actually was brought up recently by two people that kind of shocked me. First of all is it true that God sets up the governments and those that rule over us that He raises up and I cast down? They had said based on that and if we don’t listen to those who rule over us in government it is like disobeying God. Now I have been told that the American Revolution should not have taken place. They should have stayed and also we had a big parade on 5th Avenue. A Greek festival marking over 400 years of the Turkish yoke. Now that should not have taken place and I do agree with them because there was a big banking holiday. There were the fireworks and everything for July 4th.

Pastor Doug: I think I know where you are going with this. In other words was our country violating that we are to respect those authorities over us. In Daniel Chapter 4 it says that God is the one that sets up rulers and He takes them down. He’ll set up a kingdom over the faces of men. And Paul tells us that we should obey those who are in political authority. As long as the law does not violate that of the Christian principles we should always obey. Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego would not obey the government law when it required them to break the law of God. The founding fathers felt that King George was asking them to worship according to the Church of England rather than according to their conscious and so you don’t hear much about this anymore, but part of the American Revolution happened because it had to do with religious freedom it wasn’t just political freedom and freedom from taxes. History has been rewritten a little bit. But, I don’t understand what the nature of the Greek revolution is. But, it may be a different premise. Does that answer your question Demetrius?

Demetrius: Well yes we were 400 years under the Turkish yoke.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Well I listened and prayed and hopefully that will help you little bit with that question and I appreciate that. I don’t think we have had that question before.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Demetrius. Let’s go next to Tennessee where Noble is listening on 3ABN welcome Noble.

Noble: Yes.

Pastor Dick: Your question please?

Noble: Thank you. This is from Chapter 20 in John. I am taking it from verses 21 through 23. This was after Jesus was resurrected and He told His disciples when He appeared to them and He said as my Father has sent me even so I send you and then He said receive the Holy Ghost. Now this is the question because it says “Whosoever sins or you remit they are remitted unto them and sins you retain they are retained. Now what I need you to explain is what this was if they weren’t commissioned to actually forgive sins, but what does this mean?

Pastor Doug: Every Christian is a vehicle of forgiveness. In other words we are called a Nation of Priests. Would you agree Noble?

Noble: Yes.

Pastor Doug: One of the jobs of the Priests was not to decide who would and would not be forgiven, but they were a vehicle for God’s forgiveness for those who brought sacrifice. In the same way Every Christian is to be an intercessor and to make atonement by leading people to Jesus who is the Lamb of God. We are not deciding arbitrarily who we will forgive or who we will not forgive because Jesus wants everyone to find forgiveness and He doesn’t want any to perish. He says that as you go and you preach the gospel the ones you reach will be forgiven and the ones you don’t reach will not be forgiven. That’s all.

Noble: That’s good.

Pastor Doug: And it has been taken by some churches to say that humans have the power to say who God will forgive and who He will not forgive. Okay?

Noble: That’s clear. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you.

Pastor Dick: Let’s see if we can get one more in very quickly Pastor. We have about two minutes to Brooklyn, New York to Raymond on WMCA. Raymond welcome to the program.

Raymond: Thank you for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: Yes and your question?

Raymond: I am a born again Christian and I used to hear that all are born in sin. How comes we are born in sin? And why is that this early in this life?

Pastor Doug: Well for instance you read in Psalm 51: 5 “Behold I was shappened in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me.” We are all born with a selfish and sinful nature. That doesn’t mean that a baby is born with a sinful record. A baby is born with on record of sin. But, as that baby grows you know that he is going to start thinking selfishly and sin and that is what all sin comes from. The only one who did not sin is Jesus. So as Job says as sparks fly upwards and a natural response of the sparks in a fire is to go up. That is how we gravitate toward sin it is in our nature and it is only through the gift of God’s spirit and His forgiveness that He gives us His own nature and a new motive instead of being driven by selfishness we’re motivated by love. Does that help because I am not sure if I am answering what you asked?

Raymond: How comes it is in our nature for all of them?

Pastor Doug: Say that again?

Raymond: How comes it is in our nature we are all children of Him?

Pastor Dick: What? Why are we all children of Him?

Raymond: No we—why is it in our nature to sin when we are all children of Him?

Pastor Doug: Oh well because of the fall of Adam and Eve. There are two masters. Adam and Eve who are our parents got this deadly disease that you might say entered their DNA from lack of a better illustration and every human now there is this other master instead of being born in God’s image now we’re born in the image of the enemy which is the selfish motive.

Raymond: Okay. Well as innocent as we were when we were born we have it in our nature now?

Pastor Doug: Well yes—when a baby is born it is with the propensity to think selfishly and love is not the natural motive. It must think and be taught and must be learned. Oh I hope I have answered your question Raymond. We are ready to take our break because we have run out of time for this segment. And Pastor Dick and I are coming back and I want to remind our friends to check out the “Amazing Facts” website. At “Amazing Facts dot org” we’ll be right back.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back friends you are listening to “Bible Answers Live” it is a live, international, interactive Bible study broadcast across the area on the airwaves and around the world on the internet across North America via satellite and if you have a Bible question there is a toll free number to call to get your question in. I think we have one line open and it is 1-800-GOD-SAYS that is 1-800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Debit. Let’s go back to the phones Pastor Doug to Plainfield, New Jersey Shawn is listening on WMCA and welcome Shawn. Are you there Shawn?

Shawn: Yes I am here.

Pastor Doug: And your question please?

Shawn: When Paul says in the Bible to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord I just want you to elaborate on that as far as that being in the grave and not in heaven now?

Pastor Doug: Yes I will do my best to do that. There are only two ways that we exist. We exist in this world in our bodies and we exist in the presence of God. In other words we don’t exist floating around channeling between planets as or through crystals as some people teach. When a Christian dies their next conscious thought is the resurrection when the Lord descends. The Bible says that the Lord will descend and that the dead in Christ rise and then we shall ever be with the Lord. For them it is a moment just a twinkling of an eye because they have no consciousness of time. So to be absent from the body and then your next conscious thought is to be with the Lord.

Pastor Dick: So King David has been dead for three thousand years and he’s in his grave right now sleeping.

Pastor Doug: Matter of fact we can read that in Acts Chapter 2. Good King David it says that he is dead and buried and not ascended to heaven. Well it doesn’t seem like three thousand years for David because as far as David is concerned when he died his next conscious thought is going to be the resurrection with his glorified body and being in the presence of God. See we live in this world Shawn in this dimension of time and God is not confined to that. God can take us into the future the past and if we are absent from this body in this world we do not float around and we sleep a dreamless sleep and this is until the resurrection. But, we have no consciousness of that time. Okay.

Shawn: Yeah but, there are so many people in my church that believe we are in heaven and hell already so I come up against a brick wall.

Pastor Doug: You know that’s a popular belief and unfortunate because there is so much in the Bible that makes it clear that people do not get their rewards until the judgment day and Jesus said the judgment day is at the end of the world and people do not get their rewards until the resurrection and we all know the resurrection is the last day it says in John Chapter 6. So the idea that people go right to their reward before the resurrection and before the judgment is contrary to everything that Jesus teaches. And it came from the dark ages and people want to believe that their loved ones are there now but, really the Bible says we are all going to heaven together at the coming of the Lord. You would really enjoy the lesson we offer tonight on “Are the Dead Really Dead” Shawn and request that and we will send it to you for free.

Pastor Dick: 1-800-835-6747 is the number and call and ask for this lesson “Are the Dead Really Dead”. And it will help you I think in Bible studies and discussions with other people on this subject. Call now 1-800-835-6747 and ask for “Are the Dead Really Dead”. Pastor Doug to Santa Rosa, California Tom is listening on KNBL welcome Tom.

Tom: Good evening and thank you for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: You are welcome.

Tom: We are taking a two week study in baptism to get right with God. Is immersion a Biblical thing or is it just ceremonial practice?

Pastor Doug: Well there is only one method of baptism I have seen in the Bible Tom and that is baptism by immersion. The Bible tells us that John the Baptist baptized around Jordon and the reason he used a river is that the very word baptized means baptizo immerse and to submerge and plunge under.

Tom: Okay.

Pastor Doug: The very nature of the word means to immerse somebody. Again it says that John baptized near Aenon because there was much water there. Well why would it say much water is there if people are sprinkled? You know with a canteen you don’t need much water.

Tom: Well a lot of people think that it is sprinkling because it is not possible to baptize with water. It is like people are saying they don’t believe in baptism and I said no you have immersed.

Pastor Doug: Well you know think about this the teachings of Jesus in the Bible are sandwiched between His baptism and His ministry begins with His baptism right Tom and then when He ascends to heaven He commands us to go baptize. So baptism is central to the teaching of Jesus. You know we have a free book we will send you and it is called “Baptism is it Really Necessary?” I’ll send it to you for free and it has a whole lot of Scriptures on Baptism and the history of it and the nature of it. “Baptism is it Really Necessary?”

Tom: I really like that idea and thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright well Pastor Dick will give you the number unless you already have it?

Pastor Dick: Tom again that number is 1-800-835-6747 call that number Tom and ask for the book on baptism called “Baptism is it Really Necessary?” And we will send that out to you tonight Tom so make that call okay? Let’s go next Pastor Doug to Auburn, Indiana. Dena is listening on WPFB welcome Dena.

Dena: Hi and my question is there really lost books of the Bible? Because there is a book outright now and it is called the “Lost Books of the Bible”.

Pastor Doug: Well let me give you a little history that will help to answer to that question. There are historical books that are not included in what we call the sacred assembly of books in the Bible. You know the word “Bible” “Biblio” is a Greek word or Latin word “Biblios” and it means books. And the books in our Bible were considered to be sacred, holy and inspired. There were other books that were written by the contemporaries of the other Bible writers that were not holy and sacred in nature. Then of course there are a lot fabricated books they call pseudo apocryphal books and they are basically made up forgeries. You know a few years ago someone had claimed they discovered the missing book of Andrew. And these gospels and then of course they can’t produce their sources and then you know they just made it up. So don’t believe everything you read about lost books because if there really were lost books of the Bible I think it would be on the front page of USA today if they had really found that.

Dena: Alright.

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Dena: Okay.

Pastor Dick: Alright thanks for the call Dena. Let’s go to Brooklyn, New York where Obed is listening on WMCA welcome Obed.

Obed: Hello how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Very well and your question tonight?

Obed: It is on Colossians Chapter 2:16

Pastor Doug: Would you like me to, okay go ahead.

Obed: I would like the word in Greek for the Sabbath day. In the original Greek because some various translations some say Sabbath days others say Sabbath.

Pastor Doug: Okay I am looking that up for you right now.

Obed: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Okay here we go Sabbath days is “Sabbaton” and the word “Sabbaton” it means it can be the interval between two Sabbaths or it can be Jewish Sabbath days. And I understand that this is the plural and that is why they have added the word “days”.

Obed: Oh is “ton” plural.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Obed: What is the singular?

Pastor Dick: “tas”

Pastor Doug: I could look it up. Why are you asking is what I am wondering?

Obed: Well I was doing some study with a friend and we got to that word and so I just wanted to know the original. You know the original from the Greek. I am actually doing a search on that right now for you and alright let’s see here the—I want to make sure I am finding. Well okay.

Pastor Doug: See there are two kinds of Sabbaths there’s the weekly Sabbath that is part of the Ten Commandments that dates back to creation okay? Then there were Jewish Sabbath days of rest that were holy days added during the time of Moses and the Exodus. And the ordinances were being nailed to the cross this is what is being spoken of as the Sabbath days that were spoken of were nailed to the cross as were all the ceremonial feasts and holidays.

Obed: I had a question about the laws and ordinances so how are an ordinance different?

Pastor Doug: Well let me see if I can give you—if you look in Deuteronomy 4:13 I will read it to you and you can look it up later. “So he declared to you his covenant which he command you to perform the Ten Commandments and he wrote them on two tables of stone and the Lord commanded me” and this is Moses speaking “at that time to teach you statutes and judgments that you might observe them in the land that you cross over to possess.” So here Moses makes a distinction. Ten Commandments have been written by God on tables of stone and the Lord command me to teach you judgments and statutes that you might observe them. So this is one way you might make a distinction between the two laws. You have got the covenant of the Ten Commandments and then you have got the Mosaic ordinances and statutes and laws. Okay?

Obed: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Alright I hope that helps.

Obed: Thank you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Obed. Let’s go to Clovis, California and next Leslie is listening on KARM Leslie welcome to the program.

Leslie: Hi thank you.

Pastor Dick: You’re welcome and your question please?

Leslie: My question is the great prostitute that is depicted in Revelation 17 & 18. She has mystery on her forehead and she is standing on many waters. I just wonder who is she and also is she the same person that is described when he says that he sees this great prostitute and then he is taken away by the spirit into the desert and there he sees the mother of all prostitutes and are those the same women?

Pastor Doug: Yes well the woman in Revelation 17 is the mother of harlots.

Leslie: Even the first one that he sees on the waters before he gets carried into the desert.

Pastor Doug: Which one on the waters are you talking about?

Leslie: At the very beginning of Revelation 17.

Pastor Doug: All of Chapter 17 is talking about the same woman.

Leslie: Okay right okay.

Pastor Doug: Do you want to know who she is?

Leslie: Yes I want to know who she is.

Pastor Doug: Well you are trying to make me unpopular?

Leslie: No.

Pastor Doug: Well let me tell you I want you to figure it out for yourself, but I will help you.

Leslie: Okay. I think I have actually and it is scaring me.

Pastor Doug: Well let me just walk you through a few thoughts you can then look up for yourself.

Leslie: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Well in prophecy a woman represents a church. Now some Scripture for that is that God has liked His bride to a delicate woman. You can look husbands’ love your wives as Christ loves the church this is what Paul says. John writes in his letter he writes from one church to another and he says I am writing from your elect sister. And so if you look in Revelation 12 you have a picture of God’s church. She is a woman also clothed in the sun, moon and stars and that is the light of God and God says you are the light of the world. But, this woman in Revelation 17 is clothed inartificial earthly light. Gold, pearls, purple and scarlet and it tells us that she is sitting on a beast that has seven heads and ten horns. That beast in Chapter—I am sorry, yes Chapter 13 that beast is the Roman Empire that tries to destroy Jesus. It was Roman soldiers that crucified Him and Roman soldiers that killed the babies in Bethlehem. And you can clearly see that this beast is pagan Rome. Well now ere you have this church this woman sitting on the pagan Roman beast. If you go to Revelation Chapter 17: 18 that city that you saw is the great city that reigns over the earth. When John wrote Revelation what great city was ruling the world back then?

Leslie: Rome.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Now you keep going and it says in verse 9 that here is the mind that has wisdom the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. Rome is the city that sits on seven hills it is not a metaphor you just type in seven to your encyclopedia and it will seven wonders of the worlds, seven hills and Rome is the city of seven hills.

Leslie: Right.

Pastor Doug: Here you have got a major religious political power that is situated in Rome now do you know who that woman is?

Leslie: Yes. And when it says this call is for a mind with wisdom.

Pastor Doug: Oh you mean here is the mind with wisdom there are seven heads which are the mountains on which the woman sits? Well this passage in verse 9 has two meanings that are in parallel. First of all the woman is sitting on the city that has seven hills and that is Rome. Secondly there are seven mountains, kingdoms, which persecuted God’s people in the Bible. It says five have fallen, one is and the other has not yet come. Now follow me when John wrote the book of Revelation five kingdoms that had persecuted God’s people had fallen. They are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Those five have fallen and one is that is when Rome was in power. And the other has not yet come, but when it is it must continue a short time. John wrote this while pagan Rome was ruling the world. Papal Rome instead of Rome being ruled by Caesars and Emperors is Rome being ruled by a church. It had not come yet and it became the world power for over a thousand years beginning about 538 A.D. So it is also spacing out here. You know I am spacing out, too. Send for a lesson because I am trying to fit into three and one half minutes on a budget of three or four minutes per call Leslie and I am trying to fit a big Bible study into ta short amount of time.

Leslie: Alright we are out of time, but thanks you very much that helps.

Pastor Dick: Leslie do you have access to the internet?

Leslie: Yes.

Pastor Dick: Go to the “Amazing Facts dot org” website and--

Pastor Doug: “The Beast the Dragon and the Woman” by Joe Crews.

Leslie: Okay.

Pastor Dick: You will find that there at the website.

Leslie: But, just one second and what is the one that has not yet come?

Pastor Doug: He is also the eighth and oh don’t get me started.

Leslie: Okay.


Pastor Dick: “The Beast the Dragon and the Woman” and thanks for the call.

Leslie: Alright thank you. Bye—bye.

Pastor Doug: Good question.

Pastor Dick: We want to talk with Susie on a cell phone in Portland, Oregon and Susie welcome.

Susie: Thank you very much and I have a question. I have been reading in the Bible a lot and I keep hearing about this is about God’s names. And as I understand about the Ten Commandments Satan has wanted to counterfeit the goodness in each one. So I wondered is Satan made accountable to the first commandment?

Pastor Doug: Well the first commandment is thou shall not worship other gods and the third commandment says don’t take the name of the Lord in vain. So which one are you talking about? The one about the Lord’s name?

Susie: Yes the one about the Lord’s name.

Pastor Doug: I believe the devil has a counterfeit for every truth of God and there are many people typically when a woman marries a man they used to take the man’s name and it is not as common anymore. Or I should say it is not as traditional as it used to be. When we are baptized we take the name Christian. And if we take the name Christian and we don’t live up to Christ as our example and Christ and follow him we are taking we are taking the name of God in vain. So I think that will answer what you are fishing for.

Susie: It is just I am so confused about what Satan is usurping God’s name and on what this all means because I know that Satan is very interested in usurping God’s and he probably has been you know over the ages been changing something. So someone said that god in another language means Baal. Is that true?

Pastor Doug: Well this gets confusing. Let me give you an example of what I mean if you had said twenty years ago I am happy and gay. Nobody would have a problem and well maybe you have to go back more than twenty years. Well you don’t say that now unless you are trying to send a different signal. The word itself is not bad, but another connotation got attached to it. Some of these ancient words that are connected with the pagan god were also the same legitimate word for the word god.

Pastor Dick: That is right.

Susie: Right.

Pastor Doug: And so it was the classical sense of the word god. And it got altered and the pagan god got all the credit and it was for the pronunciation. Some people have got a problem calling Jesus, “Jesus” because it is really a Greek pronunciation and it is like they are saying you are using the name Zeus in there “Jezeus” but, really Jesus is the Greek pronunciation of the word Yahweh saves. The Hebrew way would be Yashua. And the question is what language do we speak? And so God speaks to us in our language. I have got an article you can read for free. Can you get to the internet Susie?

Susie: Yes, yes.

Pastor Doug: Go to the “Amazing Facts” website I have written called “The Name of God”.

Susie: Okay.

Pastor Doug: And if you’ll read that I think it will answer what you are fishing for.

Susie: Okay. I so much appreciate it and this is the first time I heard your program and it is very good.

Pastor Doug: Thank you and God bless.

Susie: Thank you. Bye-bye.

Pastor Dick: Let’s go to Bossier City, Louisiana and Donna is a first time caller listening on the internet welcome Donna.

Donna: Hi. My question simply centers on John the Chapter 20: 17 where Jesus is talking to Mary and He tells her not to touch Him. My question is did Jesus go to heaven to present Himself as a sacrifice before He let humans touch Him?

Pastor Doug: No that matter of fact Mary had probably already touched him at this point. He wasn’t saying don’t touch me because I am too good for you and if you will look in some other translations that is translated more carefully. She had grabbed Jesus by the feet and was clinging to Him Donna. And what Jesus said I am reading to you now from the New King James Version. Jesus said don’t cling to me for I have not yet ascended to heaven. She was clinging and did not want to let go. And he said look I have to go I need to have my sacrifice pronounced successful don’t cling to me. After He came down from heaven they grabbed Him by the feet and worshipped Him. You can find another example of this in the Bible where the Sidomites woman came to Elijah and she grabbed him by the feet and would not let go. And that is what they did when they were worshipping or pleading with somebody. It was a sign of submission and Jesus wasn’t saying don’t touch me I am sterile and you can’t touch me. He was saying don’t cling to me I need to move on. Okay?

Donna: Okay. So He didn’t need to present Himself to His Father.

Pastor Doug: He did need to present Himself to His Father. And that was to be successful and then he ascended to heaven and then He came back. But, He had not yet ascended yet.

Donna: Okay the reason I’m asking this question is that there is a very well known writer that said that Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father and that He ascended to the heavenly courts and from God Himself heard that His atonements for the sins of men had been amplified.

Pastor Doug: I have no problem and that makes sense to me.

Donna: But, it still sounds like that He forbade the woman to touch Him.

Pastor Doug: No He was saying don’t detain Him. Don’t cling to Him.

Donna: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Well that is like I said all you have to do is look in a couple of other versions and you will see that.

Donna: Do you have any lessons on that.

Pastor Doug: Any reading material on that? Well I do, but it is something can’t give away I have a book I wrote and it is over two hundred pages, but it is called “At Jesus’ Feet” and it is about Mary Magdalene. And if you would like you can go to the “Amazing Facts dot org” website and order that okay? I hope that helps Donna.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Donna. Let’s go next to Marino Park, California and James and is a repeat caller James your question please?

James: Yeah how are you doing Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Dick? Yeah I am doing a video on prophets and I got into the Scriptures the other day and one of my friends told me that Adam was the first prophet. I am not sure if that is right or not. I know he was the first man, but I am trying to figure out who was the first prophet in the Bible?

Pastor Doug: Well Adam speaks very little in the Bible and I think the only thing he says is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. I don’t think that Adam rally says very much. But, I think I could make a good case that the first prophet in the Bible is Enoch.

James: I thought it was yeah I thought it was Enoch.

Pastor Doug: Enoch it does definitely say that he prophesied the second coming and so it called him a prophet and then of course Noah was a prophet, but he followed Enoch.

James: Oh okay.

Pastor Doug: So it would be Enoch first I think.

James: Okay that sounds good and thank you.

Pastor Doug: Okay thank you and God bless.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug I am afraid if we take another call it would not do it a good service. We have about a minute and a half.

Pastor Doug: Well let’s do this. Let’s try it.

Pastor Dick: Well let’s do that. Lute’s see if we can talk to Eric in Columbia, South Carolina. Eric we have about one minute what can we do?

Eric: Oh I have a big question

Pastor Dick: Oh.


Eric: Daniel 12:11 real quick does Daniel in the daily sacrifice I am wondering I don’t know the details from the Old Testament and was wondering does it have a spiritual aspect for us today?

Pastor Doug: Yeah Jesus said give us this day our daily bread and Christ is the bread of life. That daily sacrifice is that daily atonement that we receive from Christa and Paul said I die daily and every day we renew our covenant with the Lord and our commitment. And so really this evil power speaking of in Daniel 12 is they are besmirching the sacrificial system of Christ in the daily sacrifice. I hope that helps a little Eric I am sorry, but call back again and I will try and give you a better answer. Listening friends thank you so much for participating and we would just like to remind you that there is a lot left for you to see at the “Amazing Facts dot org” website. You can download free audio and video and find out about our TV programs that are around the world right now. That is at our “Amazing Facts dot com” or “dot org” website. And also if you would like to better understand the Bible then take a look at “Bible University dot com” website and you can become an Apostle of prophecy just like going through these Bible studies together. Remember most of all it is not the details it is the person of Jesus who is the truth that sets you free.


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