Date: 06/13/2004 
Crocodiles are among the largest, longest-living reptiles on earth. Just like a tree, they have growth rings in their scales.
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Crocodiles are among the largest, longest-living reptiles on earth. Just like a tree, they have growth rings in their scales. By counting these rings, scientists can tell the age of a crocodile and know that some males can live up to 70 to 100 years of age.

Female crocodiles rarely grow larger than 10 feet; but males can weigh over 2,000 pounds--that's a ton--and measure over 20 feet in length. Like all reptiles, crocodiles are cold-blooded and must lie in the sun to get warm or lays in water to cool down. But incredibly, they can also shut down or speed up blood flow to regulate their body temperature.

A full-grown crocodile has a brain about the size of a walnut. Despite this, they seem to be intelligent, learning quickly how to track and kill prey. Very powerful muscles snap the jaw closed when it grabs prey. The muscles that keep the jaw closed are not as powerful. The crocodile jaw can open and shut but not move from side to side; and they cannot chew.

In addition, a crocodile can't move its tongue, but its digestive juices are so strong that it can digest a steel nail. Crocodiles can live for months without eating because they don't use much energy. Salt water crocodiles actually live in both salt and fresh water, and they can swim for miles and stay under water for up to four hours.

They can even run very quickly on land for short distances. A female crocodile will build a big compost nest when its time to lay her eggs, and she'll lay about 80 of them. Amazingly, a baby crocodile's gender is determined by how deeply the eggs are buried in the nest, and the temperature.

Unlike most reptiles, a female crocodile will defend its nest to the death from any animal. When the mother crocodile hears the babies hatching, she runs over to dig them out of the nest and then carries her babies gently in her mouth to the water. Crocodiles have three eyelids, two leathery, protective eyelids and one clear, translucent one.

They also have very good vision and they can see almost 180 degrees. But, in spite of this, they can't see anything below their nose. Like the crocodile, some Christians are also blind to obvious truth right under their noses. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: We are live and lines are open. So this is a very good time for you to pick up your phone and call us here in sunny Sacramento. It's a toll-free phone number, and the number is 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297. If you have any Bible-related question, this would be the optimum time to pick up your phone and to dial that number.

Once again, 1-800-GOD-SAYS, that's 1-800-463-7297. You might want to keep a pencil handy because we'll be giving out another resource phone number later in the program where

you can obtain some of the free things that we offer as Bible study resources through the program. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Devitt. Good evening Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening Pastor Dick.

Pastor Dick: And we normally start with a word of prayer, so let's do that.

Father in heaven, we thank You; and we praise You because You have come in the flesh and You have started a good work with us, heavenly Father. You have promised us that You will continue it until the day You return to take Your people home. In the meantime Lord, we seek tonight to hear from You and to answer questions from Your holy Word. So we pray that You'll be with Pastor Doug and give him clarity of thought; and be with our callers tonight, Lord, and help them, and give them a deeper relationship with You. We praise You and we thank You for this opportunity. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Dick: I was in Africa last month, Pastor Doug, and had the opportunity to see some crocodiles in their natural habitat. They're fascinating creatures. But you must have a spiritual application here about this blindness. I mean, we have an idea that the devil is, uh--well you tell me. Where are you going with this?

Pastor Doug: Well, I thought it was interesting that crocodiles, in spite of their great ability and stealth in the water, they're actually blind to anything that happens to be under them.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: They're designed so that as they cruise with a periscope up, so to speak, along the surface they can see very well, but they can't see what's right underneath them.

Pastor Dick: And their nose, generally, is just above the surface of the water and the rest of the body is hidden.

Pastor Doug: That's right. Just the nose and the eyes stay above.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But they're blind to what might be swimming right under their nose, so to speak; which made me think of there are so many sincere Christians that are deceived by popular myths and they're blind to truth that is so clear in the Bible. But often, we grow up with certain traditions and understandings and we become sort of inoculized against the truth.

Pastor Dick: Okay, alright. Obviously, the thing that comes to mind is the idea that the devil goes around carrying a pitchfork and wears red leotards, right?

Pastor Doug: Well that was what I was going to play on tonight. You think about the crocodile and sometimes you think about that serpent in Revelation; and people have these misconceptions about the devil being this grotesque goblin, when actually the Bible says nothing of the sort. He is a fallen angel and he appears as an angel of light.

Pastor Dick: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: And the Bible says nothing about Satan being in charge of hell. We always see these pictures of the devil with his pitchfork and he's, I guess, using it to make sure that sinners are cooked evenly. But the Bible says Satan is going to be cast into hell; he's not in charge of hell.

I mean, could God trust the devil to make sure that sinners got the fair punishment? The Bible says everyone is rewarded according to his works.

Pastor Dick: Well, that's one of the delusions that people have is that the devil is in charge of hell. I mean, people think that if you're a bad enough sinner, you're going to go to hell and the devil is going to be there to torture you forever and ever.

Pastor Doug: And that's the third myth in connection with this. First of all, the myth that the devil is ugly; - -

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - the myth that he's in charge of hell; and then the myth that he is torturing people there through endless ages before the Judgment day. And these things are so vividly clear in the Bible. They're right under our nose is you just read the Bible; but people still embrace the medieval fairy tales instead of the plain Bible truth.

Pastor Dick: Yeah; yeah

Pastor Doug: And we have something if people have any questions about what the devil really looks like, and uh, is he in charge of hell. We have something.

Pastor Dick: We have a plethora--a large number of great resources for you to study this question. We want to make available a lesson which is part of the 27 lessons that Amazing Facts has produced, that we make available to anybody who wants to take these lessons.

They're free, of course, but we'd like to offer you the particular lesson that's called, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" and can he be trusted to be impartial. "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" is available to you tonight if you'll call our resource operators. As Pastor Doug said, here's the other phone number now, 1-800-835-6747. That's to our resource operators. Ask for "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?"

Or you can go to our website at and you can find the lesson there also. And I think you want it in your library, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?"

Pastor Doug: Um-hmm, absolutely.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug, we take a couple of Internet questions every evening before we go to the phones, so let's do that and then go right to the phones. But our first question for tonight, "Could you please explain to us why in the four Gospels there are different numbers of angels present at the tomb? Some say one angel; others say two angels."

Pastor Doug: I think the best answer for that is, as I studied it, it appears that Mary Magdalene came twice. She first came alone, and then when she sees the tomb is empty, she runs off; and evidently, she encounters Mary the mother of Jesus; Mary, the wife of Cleopas, and the other women, and she returns with them, who then look in.

On those two occasions, they see different angels. When Jesus first rose, it says "an angel came and rolled away the stone." Later, they look in and see two angels, one sitting at the head and the other at the foot of where the body had been. And then, of course, the women leave and Mary stays and Jesus appears to her. Then Mary goes and gets Peter and John, and they all come back again.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Keep in mind, He was buried right outside Jerusalem. Most of them were in the upper room, so it shouldn't surprise us that there were two or three trips just in that morning in very quick succession. So that, I think, is the best explanation, is the different trips.

Pastor Dick: The upper room was not that far away.

Pastor Doug: Just inside the walls. Probably if you drew a line on a map it was less than a quarter of a mile, so it was very easy for them to make two or three trips just that morning to find out what was going on.

Pastor Dick: Okay, very good. Second question, "Private baptism. Is private baptism without a pastor biblically valid?"

Pastor Doug: That is a difficult question to answer. There are a number of people who, I'm sure, God looks upon as authentically baptized, though it may not have been done in a public setting, and it may not have been done by a pastor. There are parts of the world where, because of communism or where Christianity is being persecuted, public baptisms can mean death.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Pakistan, and some other countries, conversions to Christianity can be fatal; - -

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - and so they're done in a more private setting. Some of these places, because of those laws, it is only the laity, the underground church, that is able to operate. That is not the preferred way to do it because if you have everybody who claims to be a Christian running off and baptizing someone else who then claims to be a Christian, there's an incredible risk that those who are coming into the faith have not been taught; and Jesus said, "Go ye therefore, teach and baptize...teaching them to observe all things."

Pastor Dick: Um m, um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And so that's why it appears that Jesus asked the leaders of the church, at least the pastors and deacons because Philip was a deacon, to do the baptizing to make sure there was some clearance that the people were thoroughly taught.

Pastor Dick: Some baptisms can take place prematurely before a person is well-grounded in the faith.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it's like a premature baby. Sometimes, they are at higher risk of having problems, and so you want to make sure a person has gotten their roots down and their lungs developed, so to speak.

Pastor Dick: Very good, alright. Let's go to the phones and take our first caller for the evening. We want to talk with Glen. Glen is with us in Jamestown, New York, listening on WMCA. Hello Glen.

Glen: Hi, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Good. Thanks for your call. Your question?

Glen: My question is about Judges 11:29-40.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Glen: I was wondering why God would allow Jephthah, a judge of Israel, to sacrifice his daughter to God?

Pastor Doug: I don't believe he did. Allow me to explain. If you read it without doing some circumference investigation, it could seem like that on the surface. But right in the Jewish law, they were all required to dedicate their firstborn to the Lord as a sacrifice; but they never offered their firstborn. They knew they were suppose to offer an animal in its place.

Not only that, they were never to offer an unclean animal. Matter of fact, God said even the firstborn of your donkey and your camel was to be consecrated to the Lord. Well, they never offered unclean animals to the Lord and humans are unclean.

It says that the girls came to the temple yearly to bewail, or to weep for, Jephthah's daughter. It says that Jephthah's daughter said to her father, "Let me go upon the mountains with my girlfriends and bewail my virginity, not my death, my virginity." She was brought to the temple as an offering to the Lord where she served for the Lord for the rest of her life without being married.

You can read about that in the New Testament, Glen, where it says that Anna, who was there in the temple in Luke chapter 1 when Jesus was dedicated, Anna was in the temple serving God with her prayers 80 years from her virginity.

Pastor Dick: Right

Pastor Doug: And then you remember when Samuel was brought to the temple as a baby. I guess he was five years old. It says his mother consecrated him to the Lord, and then she came up yearly to bring him a coat; the same way the daughters in Israel came to the temple yearly to honor and to weep with Jephthah's daughter.

So he did sacrifice her to the Lord. The reason that Jephthah was so thrown is she was his only daughter, meaning that his family tree was going to die right there because he would have no posterity.

Glen: Okay. I disagree with you, but I listened to what you said.

Pastor Doug: Alright, well I'm in good company because if you go to the commentaries, it's almost universally accepted that, especially somebody like Jephthah who was a judge in Israel who knew the law of God, he would never have offered a human sacrifice when the law said that he could offer an animal in its place.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: So he brought his daughter, no doubt, to the temple, the same way Hannah did.

Glen: I have a Good News bible. You know the Good News bible?

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Glen: It says that he did sacrifice his daughter.

Pastor Doug: The Good News bible is not a translation. It's a paraphrase by a gentleman named Taylor.

Glen: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: And it's one man's opinion.

Glen: Okay

Pastor Doug: So I would respectfully disagree, okay?

Glen: Alright

Pastor Doug: Alright, but thanks. Good question.

Glen: Okay

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Glen. Let's go to Mt. Shasta, California and talk with Diane who's listening on the Internet. Good evening Diane.

Diane: Hello

Pastor Doug: Hi, get real close to your phone. Mt. Shasta is a long way.

Diane: Yes

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Diane: In light of other Bible texts, it seemed to imply that Jesus doesn't touch the ground at the second coming. Can you explain Zechariah 14, especially verse 4?

Pastor Doug: Yes. Let me read this for our listeners, Zechariah 14:4. "And his feet," and it's obviously speaking of the Messiah here. "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives in the midst thereof towards the east and towards the west, and there will be a very great valley." We do believe this is Jesus who will touch the earth.

You remember when Christ ascended into heaven Diane? He said in the same way you have seen me go you will see me come. Matter of fact, that's Acts chapter 1. The angels are the ones who said that to the apostles, "This same Jesus will return the same way He left." He ascended from the mount of Olives. The next time His feet touch the earth, it will touch the mount of Olives.

But keep in mind when the Lord comes back, we are caught up to meet Him in the air. And it is then later He comes down to this earth with the New Jerusalem. That's when His feet touch the earth, and the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to earth. You don't hear much about it, but I guess, technically, you'd call it the third coming. It's after the millennial time.

Diane: Okay

Pastor Doug: So, yes, His feet do touch the earth and not when He comes back. We're caught up to meet Him in the air at that point. And He says, "I go to prepare a place for you." He takes us back to the mansions He has prepared. Then after our thousand-year sabbath with the Lord, the New Jerusalem comes down to earth.

Pastor Dick: Amen!

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Diane: Alright, thank you.

Pastor Doug: We do have a lesson. Let me see now, our lesson on Coming World Blackout talks about that Scripture. Coming World Blackout, we'll send it to you or anyone who wants a copy of that.

Pastor Dick: Diane, call that resource number that I gave a few minutes ago. It's 1-800-835-6747.

Diane: Alright

Pastor Dick: And ask for Coming World Blackout and we'll send it to you tonight.

Diane: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you

Pastor Dick: Alright, thanks for the call.

Diane: Bye

Pastor Dick: Bye. To Franklin Park, Illinois. Dennis is listening on WUAR. Hello Dennis.

Dennis: WAUR, hi.

Pastor Dick: WAUR, okay.

Dennis: Yes sir. I've seen a lot of archaeological programs, you know where the archaeologists are evaluating fossils and trying to date, and carbon date, and dating, and so forth, when the earth was first determined, or surmised, to be created. And I just wondered if there are a lot of conflicts, because when you go back to the Garden of Eden from the present time, it's like, what, about 6,000 years?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, that's correct.

Dennis: What about these archaeologists, and so forth, and scientists that say like Mars is so many million years old and things of that nature.

Pastor Doug: Or a billion years old actually.

Dennis: Right, right, right. How do you coincide with what [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: First of all keep in mind, we are living in an age where we have the greatest technology the world has ever had and so we assume that we must know everything.

Pastor Dick: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: Do you realize that 500 years ago, people said the same thing? They said, "We are living in the most technologically, scientific, advanced age." That was the Renaissance. Well it was during the Renaissance Columbus said the world was round and the scientists said, "You're crazy. We all know it's flat. All the TV programs say it's flat. The church says it's flat. It's flat!"

Well, sometimes the majority is wrong. I remember when I was in Russia about--oh it has been 10 years ago now--doing some evangelistic meetings. On Russian television they were talking about how all the American cities were burning and American criminals were eating each other. Well they took two isolated stories, the LA Riots--and they made it sound like all of America was on fire; - -

Dennis: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - and Jeffrey Dahmer, and they made that sound like that's the pattern of all the American criminals; and the television was giving such a distorted picture of reality that it was a fantasy.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Dennis: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: There is an agenda among some groups to try to neutralize the power of the Gospel by saying, "You cannot take the Bible seriously because everybody knows that evolution is not a theory, it's a fact." And you'll often see on these nature science programs--National Geographic, bless their heart, they've got great pictures. You'll often see on those publications and those TV programs, they state evolution like it's a fact; and if anybody questions it, they're "foolish."

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But the fact is that their facts are very feeble. The whole evolutionary palace is built on the sand of their dating methods. And their dating methods are extremely flawed Dennis.

Dennis: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: If you look in an encyclopedia and look up radioisotope carbon 14 dating, you can quickly see that the one thing they all agree on is it's not dependable. If you take away their dating method, then the whole theory of evolution, it implodes. We have a book that talks more about that if you'd like to get a copy?

Dennis: Okay

Pastor Doug: We'll send it to you. It's called, When Evolution Flunked the Science Test.

Dennis: Okay

Pastor Doug: We'll send it to you for free.

Dennis: Do you know when the dinosaurs were suppose to have been on the earth? Is that shortly after Adam and Eve?

Pastor Doug: Yeah--I believe firmly. Now I didn't use to believe this, and Pastor Dick didn't use to believe this. We both used to believe in evolution; but I think that we've been enlightened. I firmly believe that dinosaurs lived contemporaneously with people, - -

Pastor Dick: Yes

Pastor Doug: - - and there are a lot of fossils that support this.

Dennis: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: So, the concept that they're millions and millions of years old, it's all a fallacy based on fantastic thinking.

Dennis: Okay. Alright, I'll be glad to read the book you mentioned Doug.

Pastor Doug: We'll send you the book. Yeah, call us after you read it. Let us know what you think, okay?

Dennis: If it's not too deep for me; I'm not the deepest thinker in the world.

Pastor Doug: You know what? - -

Pastor Dick: No, no.

Pastor Doug: I don't want to make it sound like it's not well documented, but it's a small book. It'll be easy reading. Joe Crews is very easy to read. Pastor Dick will give you the number.

Dennis: Okay, real quick, should I stay on the line?

Pastor Doug: No, we'll just give you the phone number and you call the resource line and they'll send it to you.

Dennis: Oh okay, thank you, Doug.

Pastor Dick: Dennis, again, it's called, When Evolution Flunked the Science Test.

Dennis: Okay

Pastor Dick: And call this resource number, 1-800-835-6747, and ask for it and we'll send it to you tonight.

Dennis: Thank you very much.

Pastor Dick: Okay, thanks for the call.

Dennis: God bless you. Bye bye.

Pastor Doug: Bye bye

Pastor Dick: To Memphis, Tennessee, Brian on WDNX. Hello Brian.

Brian: Hello. How's it going?

Pastor Dick: Great

Pastor Doug: Good, thanks for waiting.

Brian: No problem. My question concerns translation and transliteration, - -

Pastor Doug: Okay

Brian: - - specifically regarding the name of the Most High. Recently in the popular film, Passion of the Christ, we hear the Aramaic dialog, and in that we hear the Messiah referred to in His name, Yeshua.

Pastor Doug: Right

Brian: Then at the bottom you see the subtitle it says "Jesus." Well now, I know from my studies, seminary and elsewhere, I know the letter "J" is listed 500 years old. I know that. I know that it didn't exist at the time. I know that "Yeshua" is actually Hebrew for "salvation." My question is, if we know this and if we even have scriptural admonition not to mess with the name--uh, Exodus 3:13 the Almighty says, my name [tape skips] has those (unintelligible) characters (unintelligible), says, "This is my name, Yahuah, for all generations." Well, I'm curious how we come to the place today to continue some Anglican transliteration, um, uh, packages - -

Pastor Doug: Of the word, yeah. Well, the question is, when you speak Bible truth in a different language, is it considered disrespectful to use the language that you're addressing? In other words, when Jesus gave the apostles the gift of tongues and they began to preach in other tongues, whenever they came to a proper name, were they allowed to pronounce that name with the pronunciation of that native tongue, or did they have to say it in the original Hebrew or Aramaic?

I would submit to you that, as I travel the world and have listened to many different language groups, I find it nearly impossible to even say certain words in those languages because my tongue can't wrap around it.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And in the same way, there are other dialects that really struggle to say certain words that might be in the Hebrew or Aramaic. It's easy for you and me to say "Yeshua"; and

you're correct, that is the pronunciation, or fairly nearly the pronunciation, that they had in the Old Testament.

But the question is does God require people to speak Hebrew when addressing Him, or can they use their native language? And that's a big question. I mean, if we should demand that everybody says the proper names in the Bible, especially the name of God, in the original tongue, then we have to ask the question, "When God spoke to Moses at the burning bush, was God speaking in the tongue of heaven, or the tongue before the Tower of Babel, or was He speaking in Hebrew?"

Brian: Well, that is part of my question. I would say He was speaking in Hebrew. I think there's a whole group of study called Edenics that believes that Hebrew is the - -

Pastor Doug: The language of Eden.

Brian: Right. However, I guess my question is more - -

Pastor Doug: The Spanish say that that was Spanish though.

Brian: I'm sorry?

Pastor Doug: My Spanish friends say that Spanish is the language of heaven [chuckles]

Brian: I understand that; but I guess academically is where I'm trying to approach this from.

Pastor Doug: Right

Brian: Should we take the text and maybe peel away a few centuries of stained glass, and take a step back to a purer understanding? Because, after all, Messiah, His apostles, they were all Jewish, and they were speaking from that context. The Scripture reading says, "To Israel was given the law, the covenants, the promise." I'm not saying that I've got to be Hebrew - -

Pastor Doug: Well let me tell you, one reason that I might respectfully disagree with you is because in some of the Greek manuscripts--and Pastor Dick can correct me if I'm wrong--it doesn't use the word "Yeshua" when it talks about Jesus. It uses the Greek pronunciation, and those Gospels were written in Greek.

We're running up against a break here, Brian, that we're going to have to abide by. I have an article that I hope you'll download for free. It's called, The Name of God. Just go to the Amazing Facts' website. I wish you'd read that because I deal with the tetragrammaton, the name of God and these issues, and, of course, a lot more detail than I have in the few minutes we budget for each question.

Pastor Dick: Brian, and download that article, and the name of it Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: It's called, The Name of God.

Pastor Dick: The Name of God. Let's try to get one more phone call in if we can. We want to talk with Alice who's listening on KFIA here in Sacramento. Alice, we have less than two minutes.

Pastor Doug: What can we do?

Alice: Okay. I want to know if the Bible discussed reflexology at all?

Pastor Doug: Now, just let me make sure I'm getting it right. I ought to know. My wife is a physical therapist. But reflexology is rubbing the different parts of the hand and feet because there are nerves that refer to other parts of the body and there could be healing benefit. Am I defining that right?

Alice: Yes, in respect to curing somebody of depression?

Pastor Doug: Well, you're asking, first of all, does the Bible address it; - -

Alice: Right

Pastor Doug: - - and I can't think of a place where the Bible addresses it.

Alice: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: Then you might be asking, as a secondary question, is there anything where the Bible forbids it.

Alice: You are right.

Pastor Doug: First of all, I know that there is, of course, medicinal value and healing value in touch and massage. Jesus often touched people. How much value there is in reflexology, I mean, I've had people say that if you use it properly, it'll restore your eyesight and your hair, and all kinds of things; and that, I think, is pretty extreme.

But I do believe there's some real value in what I've seen of it. I'm sorry Alice. I hope that helped a little bit. We tried to get one more question in before our break, but we're not done are we Pastor Dick?

Pastor Dick: We are not. We're going to be making a few announcements and then we'll come back in about two minutes for the second half of our program. We still have about four lines open so now is the time. If you would like to call us and you have a Bible-related question, give us a call at 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297.

Pastor Doug: And also, take advantage of the Amazing Facts' website and all that we offer there. You can also get your diploma in prophecy by going to Easy to

remember, and do the Storacles of Prophecy lessons. We'll be back in a moment.


Pastor Doug: We're glad that you who are staying by could join us for the second half of Bible Answers Live. For those who may have found their way in the last few minutes, this is a live, interactive Bible study going around the world via the Internet and radio. If you'd like to participate by listening or asking any Bible question, you just stay tuned, or dial 1-800-GOD-SAYS in North America; 1-800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: And my name is Dick Devitt, and we are delighted that you're with us. As Pastor Doug said, if you have a Bible-related question, give us a call now. Let's go to line 7. We want to talk with George in the Bronx. He's listening on WMCA.

George: My question is about the prophets and the sequence the difference between hell and the lake of fire. I know both of them are eternal, but what happens to the unsaved person when, I mean, they go there?

Pastor Doug: Well first of all, let me explain something that creates a lot of misunderstandings. When a person dies, whether they're saved or lost, they, as far as the time that we live in, nothing happens to them until the resurrection, the Judgment, the end of the world. The Bible is exceeding clear on this.

So the concept that as soon as somebody dies they start burning in hell before the Judgment Day is not taught in the Bible. The Lord is very clear in the parable of the wheat and the tares, at the end of the world, the wheat and tares are separated. The tares, the weeds, are bound in bundles and then cast in the fire. And then Jesus tells a parable in Matthew 25 about the sheep and the goats where it says "and so will it be at the end of the world."

He'll say, "Depart ye cursed into everlasting fire." So the mythology that people, one by one, fall off into hell to get cooked by the devil as soon as they die is not accurate. Now the word "hell" in the Bible is often used talking about the grave.

There are four words in the English Bible that are translated as "hell". One is "Sheol," that just means the "grave" in Hebrew; "Gehenna," that was the city dump outside of Jerusalem; you had "Hades," which is the Greek mythology for the "grave" or "a place of punishment"; and then you had "Tartarus," which is used one time in the Bible.

So the lake of fire is at the end of the world. It says in Revelation 21 that the devil and his angels and those who follow him are cast into the lake of fire.

George: Oh, alright

Pastor Doug: And they're burnt up with eternal fire, meaning the results of that fire are eternal.

George: Oh okay, thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: Alright, and hey, send for the free lesson. I hope that will help you George.

George: Oh alright, thanks a lot.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call George. The free lesson tonight, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" 1-800-835-6747. We want to talk with Ethan in Gilbertown, Alabama who's a first-time caller. Welcome Ethan.

Ethan: Hi--hi Pastor Doug

Pastor Doug: Hi, how are you doing Ethan?

Ethan: Good, long time no see.

Pastor Doug: [Chuckles]

Ethan: I was in the AFCOE class.

Pastor Doug: Right, I remember you.

Ethan: Yeah

Pastor Doug: How can we help you tonight?

Ethan: I have a question. I have a friend who has been involved in some deliverance ministries. I would like to know a biblical and balanced perspective on this subject.

Pastor Doug: And for our friends who are listening, a deliverance ministry is a ministry that sort of specializes in casting out devils and helping people work their way through different aspects of demonic possession. That's the description Ethan?

Ethan: That's correct, yes.

Pastor Doug: My personal opinion is I do not see anywhere in the Bible where God called anybody to, specifically, a ministry of delivering from devils. In some of these ministries, it's typical for them to talk to the devils and find out what kind of devil they are.

Ethan: Right

Pastor Doug: There's only one place in the whole Bible where Jesus talked to a devil, and that was the demoniac on the shores; and He only did that to reveal that this man was possessed with a whole legion of demons. Otherwise Jesus did not converse with devils. He just said, "The Lord rebuke you" and that was the end of that.

Ethan: Okay

Pastor Doug: There were devils who talked to Jesus. There were devils who talked to the apostles, but they did not engage them in conversations.

Ethan: Right

Pastor Doug: I don't think that we have been commanded to do that.

Ethan: I don't either.

Pastor Doug: We've been told to simply rebuke the devil and to leave it at that. We went to Africa and we did some meetings there and some people were afflicted with possession and we prayed for them. We didn't go looking for them. We didn't hang a shingle out and said, "We're in the business of casting out devils." I don't see that in the Bible. I'm very suspicious of people who claim to specialize in that.

It makes me, Ethan, think about those in the book of Acts. It talks about the sons of Sceva who went to cast out these devils. The Bible tells us that they were seized by this demon-filled man who beat them up, stripped them and sent them away naked, saying, "I know Paul and I know Jesus, but I don't know who you are." So I think it's a very risky thing for people to say, "Devils R Us" and go out there trying to cast out devils.

Pastor Dick: Right, right

Pastor Doug: Hope that helps a little bit Ethan.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Ethan. We appreciate it. Let's go to Moses Lake, Washington and talk with Lupe who's listening on KGTS. Hi Lupe.

Lupe: Hi. My question is going to be found in Isaiah 29, verses 11 and 12. It's talking about a book that's sealed.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Lupe: I'm just wondering what book they're talking about?

Pastor Doug: Well, one of the ways you might understand Isaiah 29, verses 11 and 12, is by going to the book of Revelation chapter 10.

Lupe: Okay

Pastor Doug: And it talks there about a book that was sealed; and, of course, you've got Revelation chapter 5. It says, "And I saw on the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." Now, we believe that is the book of life. In Revelation 5 it says only the Lamb could open that book.

But in Isaiah 29 it says, "And the vision of all is become unto you," I'm in verse 11, "as the words of a book that is sealed, which men delivered to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed. And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he says, I am not learned."

Now, you can't help but wonder if this is an allusion to in the time of Christ; and Isaiah really was the Old Testament prophet of Jesus. The Rabbis and the Scribes and the Pharisees, they could not understand the teachings of Jesus. They typically rejected Him.

Lupe: Rejected, yeah.

Pastor Doug: But the apostles, the fishermen, they were unlearned; and I remember in the New Testament it says, "How does this man have letters, having not learned?" How did they understand these things not having formal education? It's almost like the Holy Spirit helped them to break the seals of prophecy and to teach it.

So I think it's a prophecy saying that, "You might be surprised. Out of the mouths of spiritual babes, those who are unlearned, God is going to proclaim truth."

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm, amen

Lupe: Okay

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Lupe: Alright, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thanks for that question.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Lupe. Let's go to Brooklyn, New York. Solomon is listening on WMCA. Hello Solomon.

Solomon: Yeah hello, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Very good

Solomon: Okay. I have a question. You know, I'm speaking from an Islamic perspective. See, I fail to understand that how that Yahweh, or Allah, or Elohim became a man, a God, a man born of a woman, Jesus Christ? I mean, this I don't understand. Although we believe in Jesus as Muslims, but we don't believe Him to be God, you know, as a prophet of God, as a messenger of God, the Messiah of God. But this can you explain to me please?

Pastor Doug: I will do my best.

Solomon: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Alright. First of all, I heard you say you believe in Jesus?

Solomon: Right

Pastor Doug: Do you believe He told the truth?

Solomon: Yes

Pastor Doug: Well He said He was the Son of God. Do you believe that?

Solomon: No. You see, as a metaphor in the Hebrew sense, yes; like Adam, like David, like many others, in that sense. Righteous Man, yes God-fearing Man, yes; but in the literal sense, especially, we say that would be blasphemy, you know?

Pastor Doug: Alright, I understand. Let me ask another question. Do you believe God is powerful enough to put Himself within a man so that He could incarnate a human? Does He have that power?

Solomon: You see, we will say that God would only do things which are according to His majesty, according to His Godly principles. I mean, He can become a monkey; but we say He doesn't do these things. We say, "Look, He's infinitely, He's infinite, He's unlimited, having no beginning, no end. You know, He has power over all things, but He will only do Godly things.

Pastor Doug: Well Solomon, one of the beautiful things about the Gospel story is the most majestic, loving, God-like thing the Lord did was humbling Himself to become a man. Now, men are made in the image of God. We're not monkeys; but He became a man to save men, and that is one of the most beautiful things in the Bible.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: It's majestic that God is such a great King He was not too great to humble Himself and become a man to save men.

Solomon: Is there anything coming from Jesus Himself where He's claiming divinity, where He's saying that He is God?

Pastor Doug: Yes

Solomon: I mean, I know some people make claims, but I want something coming from the lips of Jesus Himself where He's giving a definite, a clear-cut statement.

Pastor Doug: In John, I believe it's chapter 8, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I am."

Solomon: Okay, now what does that mean, that before Abraham there was Adam? Before that, there are many prophets that were in existence.

Pastor Doug: You folks believe in Moses--right?

Solomon: Moses, Abraham, all the prophets.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Now remember when God spoke to Moses at the burning bush, God introduced Himself by saying, "I AM THAT I AM." The phrase "I AM" means, "the self-existent one." When Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am," - -

Solomon: But is that not a different Greek word, "ego eimi"? Here He's saying "I am", "Before Abraham was, I am." Over there, the Greek word there is "ho on"--you know--from the Septuagint the word is "ho on" with Moses speaking, "ego eimi" here and "ho on" there, two distinct words even in Greek.

Pastor Doug: Well, of course they're going to be different between the Hebrew and the Greek because they're different languages.

Solomon: I mean, the two Greek versions there.

Pastor Doug: You're talking about the Septuagint and the New Testament?

Solomon: Right, and the manuscripts of the New Testament.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well we're talking, first of all, about John chapter 8, verse 58. "Jesus said unto them, 'Before Abraham was, I am.' " Now Solomon, keep in mind, - -

Solomon: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - those listening knew exactly what He was saying because they took up stones to kill Him for blasphemy.

Solomon: Yeah but - -

Pastor Doug: And they said, "...Because you being a man make yourself God."

Solomon: But He clarifies that thing. He said the deceivers of the Jews are trying to get him there by hook or by crook [cross talk, unintelligible]

Pastor Doug: Well, what about when Jesus said that He could forgive sin; and the Bible says God, and God only, can forgive sin.

Solomon: Yeah but here, again, He prays, He communicates with God on behalf of a person and then He gets His permission, "God has forgiven you."

[Cross talk, unintelligible]

Pastor Doug: Alright. It sounds like you've got your mind made up, but I'll give you one more.

Solomon: Yeah, go ahead.

Pastor Doug: You said from the lips of Jesus - -

Solomon: Right

Pastor Doug: How about when Jesus said, "All hail" after He rose from the dead, inviting them to worship Him? One of the Ten Commandments says worship God only. Why would He invite them to worship Him?

Solomon: You see, again, you have to go to the language. That could only mean respect and honor.

Pastor Doug: Well, but they get down - -

Solomon: Worship also means respect and honor, not - -

Pastor Doug: It says they got down and worshiped Him.

Solomon: No, no. You see, Jesus is not saying that.

Pastor Doug: Could I make a suggestion Solomon? I've written a book that specifically deals with this. I hope you'll read it. It's called, The Trinity, and I know you're going to have issues with that; but I wish you'd take an honest look at it, because you said you would accept what comes from Jesus' mouth.

Take an honest look at it. We'll send it to you for free; and then call me and let me know what you think. It's just simply called, The Trinity, by Doug Batchelor. Pastor Dick will give you the number.

Pastor Dick: Solomon, call 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the book, The Trinity, and they will send it to you tonight. Please read it, and then call us back and we'll continue the discussion. Read it with an open mind and we appreciate your call. Let's go to Conway, Arkansas. We want to talk with Patrick who's a first-time caller. Patrick, are you there?

Patrick: Yes I am.

Pastor Doug: Thanks for waiting.

Patrick: Yes. That last caller, I was listening quite intently. I might suggest John 10:27-30 - -

Pastor Doug: Another good passage.

Patrick: - - where He says, "I and my Father are one."

Pastor Doug: That's another good passage.

Patrick: Yeah. My question is, I believe that God's Word is holy and all that God says works to His divine works. I just have one question though, Revelation chapter 22, and particularly verse 15. If you could please explain that to me?

Pastor Doug: Alright. It says, "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie." I'm reading the King James Version.

Patrick: Yes, so am I.

Pastor Doug: In particular, what part are you wanting me to explain? Any specific part or just as a whole?

Patrick: As a whole I guess.

Pastor Doug: He's talking about who is in the city; and you have to read verse 14, "Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they might have the right to the tree of life, and enter through the gates of the city. For without," and he's contrasting those who are on the inside, "are dogs." And dogs, it's not talking about canines. Dogs is a term the Jews used for those that are unclean.

The Bible says "you don't give that which is holy to the dogs." "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers," it's talking about those who are involved in that which is unclean, spiritualism, sensualism, no respect of life, worshiping pagan gods and the dishonest; and it identifies specifically Commandments of God.

Patrick: Right

Pastor Doug: Inside, those those that keep. Outside, those that don't keep.

Patrick: And this is after the Judgment, the White Throne of Judgment? [Cross talking] This is after the new heaven and new earth.

Pastor Doug: Yes, the Great White Throne Judgment is--excuse me?

Patrick: This is after the new heaven and new earth; and this is after the New Jerusalem comes down. Where do these people come from? You know, if all things were made new there, where do they, you know - -

Pastor Doug: Well these are the lost. These are the ones in the White Throne Judgment that are lost. It's saying that they are outside the city and it's on them that fire comes down and rains and it forms the lake of fire.

Patrick: Yeah, wouldn't they be in the lake of fire by this time?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, they are. Nothing in that verse, when it says, "For outside are dogs, and sorcerers,"--inside the city is peace and protection. Outside the city is the lake of fire.

Patrick: Right. Wouldn't all evil be destroyed, or taken care of so that there would be no whoremongers or murderers or idolaters outside of the city?

Pastor Doug: Well this is all taking place--I think what you're trying to do is line up the verses to that it happens in sequence. This is all happening in quick succession. It's saying in the same chapter that fire comes down from God out of heaven upon the wicked.

Patrick: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: And if you read in Revelation 21, it talks about the wicked being cast into the lake of fire outside the city, then it's describing who is outside the city.

Patrick: Okay

Pastor Doug: "Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man according as his work shall be." That's Revelation 22, verse 12. So if God's reward is with Him in verse 12, and He's talking about rewarding them, and it's saying outside the city are the lost, I think we're probably debating semantics here.

You know, the lesson we're offering tonight would be perfect for Patrick because it deals with that very issue when the lake of fire is going to burn.

Pastor Dick: "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" Patrick, is the name of the lesson. If you call our resource number and ask for it, we'll send it to you tonight. You can go through it and then call us back and see if that doesn't answer your question; 1-800-835-6747, and ask for, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?"

Let's go to Brooklyn, New York and talk with Mike who's on WMCA. Welcome Mike.

Mike: Hi, how are you doing?

Pastor Dick: Good

Mike: I've got a little problem in Luke, when they're discussing the conception of Jesus. And the angel, Gabriel, goes to Nazareth, and it says to a virgin who was engaged to Joseph.

Pastor Doug: Um-hmm

Mike: Why, when the angel tells her she's going to conceive a child, that she, you know, questions about having this child, when she says she doesn't know a man, when she knows she's going to be married to Joseph?

Pastor Doug: Well, it says in verse 29 of Luke chapter 1 she was troubled at his saying. First of all, she's wondering why has an angel come to her; and then a little later, of course, she's wondering because it says that she's going to have a baby. And she says, "How can this be? I don't know a man. I don't understand. We're not even married yet." They were engaged. That's what "betrothed" means, but they hadn't come together yet.

Mike: Right. Yeah, but I'm saying but if she, I mean, even in the Old Testament, if you were married and all, you didn't have a child, or you didn't conceive a child, it was kind of, you know, it was mainly older women that, you know, who were worried about this. She's a young woman. She's engaged you know; she's planning a family.

Pastor Doug: I see what you're saying.

Mike: And if the angel says, "Hey listen, you're going to conceive a child," you know what I'm saying?

Pastor Doug: I understand.

Mike: He didn't say, "You," um, uh - -

Pastor Doug: She hadn't shown that she was barren. She wasn't old, and so why would it be such a shock.

Mike: Right

Pastor Doug: Well, I think one reason she's troubled is every Jewish mother was waiting for the Messiah, and they knew that He would be born from one of them. And I think that she was stunned that she had been chosen.

Pastor Dick: Um-hm, um-hm

Pastor Doug: And I think she understood when the angel said, "Blessed are you among women." They all wished that their child would be the Promised Seed; and Mary is a young girl, not quite married yet, and she's just blown away by this.

Mike: Yeah, but the thing is--but like the way the question is, you know, "I do not know a man", when she's going to get engaged and she's a Jewish woman, she should know from Isaiah 14 that the virgin - -

Pastor Doug: A virgin will conceive.

Mike: Right. Why don't she, like, say, "Wow, I am the chosen." You know what I mean?

Pastor Doug: Yeah I think - -

Mike: There's no doubt about, you know--you know what I'm saying?

Pastor Doug: I do. I think I understand what you're talking about, but you have to keep in mind that the engagements of the Jews could last for years; and so it may have seemed strange to her. And they did not equate Isaiah's prophecy about a virgin conceiving with the Messiah at this time.

Matter of fact, they thought it was a sign that was given back in the days of Isaiah. They didn't believe it was something with a future in fulfillment. I hope that helps a little bit Mike, but we probably ought to keep going.

Pastor Dick: We want to talk with Karen next in Orlando, Florida on WTLM. Hi Karen.

Karen: Hi, how are you?

Pastor Dick: Very good

Pastor Doug: Good, your question?

Karen: My question is regarding your familiarity with the two-house theory in Judaism and Messianic Judaism?

Pastor Doug: Are you talking about a man that had two wives and he had two separate homes?

Karen: No. I'm talking about the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Pastor Doug: Oh okay. [Chuckles] they had another two-house theology in the Old Testament.

Karen: [Laughs] That's what they're calling it now.

Pastor Doug: Jacob had the tent of Leah and the tent of Rachel, so I guess I went to the wrong place with that. Two-house theology, yes. There were the two kingdoms, the Northern kingdom and the Southern kingdom.

Karen: Right

Pastor Doug: There is a parallel that is made--and I don't know if this is what you're talking about--there's a parallel that is made between what happened to God's people. The split of Israel between the Northern kingdom and the Southern kingdom has been paralleled with the split in Christianity between Catholics and Protestants.

The Protestants accuse the orthodox churches of going into icon or idol worship; and the orthodox churches, of course, accuse the Protestants of causing the split--the same way you have a split back in the days of Jeroboam and Rehoboam. Is that what you're talking about?

Karen: Um no, because I hadn't heard anything regarding the Catholics and the Protestants.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Karen: But it's similar in that; but this is regarding the Christian church and the Jewish community - -

Pastor Doug: Oh I see.

Karen: - - at the two houses that were split, and that the unification process of bringing those two houses back together.

Pastor Doug: Now you know Karen, I'm Jewish. I'm a Jewish Christian.

Karen: Right, [chuckles] that's right, uh-huh

Pastor Doug: The only way that those two houses could be brought together is if the Jews accept Christ.

Karen: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Because, now Paul does say that the Gentiles are an olive branch that is grafted into the stock of Israel; but Israel can be grafted back in, if they believe.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Karen: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And that's, I think, maybe what you're talking about, those two branches, those two houses?

Karen: Yes. I've run into this teaching here lately, and there are some congregations, and so forth, and fellowships that are teaching. They're not under Christianity but under Messianic Judaism.

Pastor Doug: Right

Karen: And it's called the two-house theology. I was just wondering [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: I'm sure it's out there but I don't think it's what God has in mind, because what God wants is one-house theology.

Karen: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Jesus said, "Father, I pray that they might be one."

Karen: Right; well that's what they're saying the goal is, is restoring the two to one house.

Pastor Doug: As long as they don't sacrifice biblical truth, then I pray it happens.

Karen: [Laughs] Okay

Pastor Doug: Yeah. There's another movement where folks are saying, in the sake of unity, "Let's sacrifice some of our specifics so that we don't argue and just put aside certain crucial doctrines so we can all unite."

Karen: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And there's a book that has been written by Chuck Colson, and another one by Keith Fournier, "A House United?", and uh, I can't remember the name of the other. But in any event, they're saying that Charismatics, Protestants and Catholics should put aside our differences and unite on the social things that we have in common, on morality, and certain things. That sounds good, but it has some dangers connected with it.

I think that Jesus said, "All men will know you're My disciples by your love for one another"; by our oneness.

Karen: Um-hmm. And then regarding the two-house theory with Christianity, it seems that a lot of it's not being taught in the church, the foundation of the Christian church, coming together underneath the Constantine rule?

Pastor Doug: Yes. I know what you're talking about. We teach that part of history. You know, there's a book that I wrote with my friend, Steve Wohlberg. Steve has just released a very popular book that is now being carried in almost all Christian bookstores on the left behind deception.

But Steve and I wrote a book called, Spiritual Israel, that talks about this very same issue that we're talking about Karen. We'll send you a copy of that for free, if you'd like. Just call the number. Spiritual Israel.

Pastor Dick: Spiritual Israel, 1-800-835-6747 Karen, and ask for Spiritual Israel and we'll send it out to you tonight. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Athens, Alabama. Kathy is listening on WOCG. Hi Kathy.

Kathy: Hi, good evening

Pastor Doug: Good evening, your question?

Kathy: Well, I was wondering if there was any biblical Scripture that relates to when Jesus went into the wilderness for the 40 days and 40 nights of fasting, if it says exactly what took place with Him during that time? I know that He to have been in constant prayer with His Father, but - -

Pastor Doug: That's a good question. I'm rushing you because I've got just a couple minutes here. That's a good question. Let me tell you everything the Bible says. He was with the wild beasts. I don't know what that means. It says He was tempted of the devil; and I don't know that that means just at the end of the 40 days. He may have been tempted the whole time.

And one reason I believe that, Kathy, is Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness before He began His ministry are synonymous with the 40 years in the wilderness of temptation that the Israelites faced; - -

Kathy: Right

Pastor Doug: - - and they were tempted the whole 40 years. There were serpents in the wilderness for the children of Israel. Christ dealt with the prince of serpents, the devil, during that time. Then at the end, it says angels came and ministered to Him. And we believe the same way angels fed Elijah when he fled 40 days in the wilderness, - -

Kathy: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - that at the end of His temptations, angels fed Jesus.

Kathy: Right

Pastor Doug: That's really everything it tells us about the specifics. We know there were probably rocks out there that looked like loaves of bread.

Kathy: I'm sure; but also when Moses went on Mount Sinai for 40 days, that's the relation to it as well.

Pastor Doug: Yup. Moses was there getting the law. Jesus crossed over after 40 days and He gave the law of His kingdom in the Sermon on the Mount. So that's another good parallel. I apologize Kathy. Unless we pray like Joshua for the sun to stand still, we can't control the clock.

Listening friends, as we begin to tie off this broadcast, before you change the dial, do keep us in your prayers. We are here where you're listening now just because people like you say, "Yeah, I've been blessed by that. I've been inspired or instructed." Drop us a line and let us know. We don't want this to be a one-way relationship.

It's real simple. Write us at Amazing Facts, PO Box 909,--you can even write us on the Internet. There's a place where you can send me a message. I'd love to hear from you,

God bless friends! Remember, it is Jesus, the Truth, that will set you free!


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