Sergeant Patrick Gass

Date: 11/13/2005 
Few people have lived as long and gallant a life filled with so many amazing memories as Sergeant Patrick Gass. Love for adventure carried young Patrick Gass across the
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Few people have lived as long and gallant a life filled with so many amazing memories as Sergeant Patrick Gass. Love for adventure carried young Patrick Gass across the virgin continent with Lewis and Clark on their epic Voyage of Discovery.

Sergeant Gass became the carpenter of the expedition and kept a diary during the entire adventure. Before he died in 1870 just before his 99th birthday, great cities had been built and untold wealth found in the land he helped discover. Born in Falling Springs, Pennsylvania in 1771 before the Revolution, he lived to see this country grow from the original 13 Colonies to 38 states.

He voted at the election of 18 presidents who served during his lifetime from Washington to Grant. He experienced four great wars: the Revolution; the War of 1812; the Mexican and Civil War; not to mention numerous Indian battles, fighting alongside greats like Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone.

During the War of 1812, he fought with Andrew Jackson in some of the battles of the campaign on the Canadian border. At the age of 63, he decided to settle down as a farmer so he married a girl of 20. She died 13 years later leaving him at the age of 76 with five children to raise.

When he was almost 90, he tried to enlist in the Civil War on the side of the North but was gracefully turned down. What a man! I've often thought how thrilling it would be to be able to interview Sergeant Gass and to hear him tell of his century of adventures across the American Frontier. It's hard to image the things he must have seen and experienced.

But the Bible tells us it's impossible for us to imagine the wonders of the Promised Land God has prepared for those that love Him. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Welcome once again listening friends to another fresh, live version of an international, interactive Bible study. If this is your first time tuning in, you're invited to call with any Bible questions you might have. We do stick to the theme of God's Word, and that is the reason for the phone number.

Free phone call, 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. Right now, I still see about half of our lines are free and so if you have a question, it's a good time to pick up the phone and you'll get it on tonight's program. 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297, and I am Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: And I'm Dick Devitt. Welcome home Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Thank you Pastor Dick.

Pastor Dick: You were blessed in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

Pastor Doug: We had a wonderful experience. God did bless, not only with His Spirit and presence during this revival series, but we had beautiful weather every day--even, I think, better than Sacramento from what I heard.

Pastor Dick: Praise the Lord!

Pastor Dick: If any of our friends, before we begin with prayer, I just should mention that if some friends didn't catch these international telecasts, they can simply watch them online right now. They've all been recorded. I just checked before the program to see if they're all uploaded.

Just go to and you can listen and see these revival programs and pass the link onto your friends. I think the messages are relevant for all Christians.

Pastor Dick: Amen. Well we normally start the program with a word of prayer so why don't we do that Pastor Doug?

Heavenly Father, we praise You and we thank You again for the privilege that we have of opening God's Word, and going on the air, and sharing God's Word with those listening and calling in and participating with us in this live program. Lord, this is Your opportunity to speak to all of us clearly. I pray that You will give Pastor Doug insight and wisdom and that You will speak to the hearts of those who are listening and those who are participating in the calls as well. We want to hear from You tonight Lord, and so we want to be still. We ask You please to speak to us clearly. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Dick: Well Pastor Doug, this sounds like a fascinating man. Can you just imagine all of those people that he knew in the course of his lifetime, people from Davy Crockett to George Washington?

Pastor Doug: It is incredible - -

Pastor Dick: Wow!

Pastor Doug: - - to think that there was one person whose life spanned the experiences, - -

Pastor Dick: Ohh, yes

Pastor Doug: - - going from Washington to Grant, and Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett. He personally knew Thomas Jefferson because he's the one that commissioned the group to go on the Lewis and Clark expedition; and to see that virgin country. I mean, other than the Native Americans, he was in the first group to lay eyes on the interior of the Northwest.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: What he must have seen! I wish I could have sat down with a video camera or an audio tape and just interview him for a few hours.

Pastor Dick: Sure

Pastor Doug: If a person could get a copy of his diary, the originals are worth thousands of dollars right now.

Pastor Dick: And yet, you have a spiritual application here.

Pastor Doug: Yes. You know, I've often thought, when I roam around northern California what it would be like to have seen this land flowing with milk and honey. It would have really been something to see that and then I think, "Well that's still nothing compared to what God has."

Matter of fact, there's a verse in 1st Corinthians 2, verse 9, "As it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it even entered into the heart of man, the things that God has prepared for those that love him."

Pastor Dick: Mm m, amen!

Pastor Doug: And that Country, that Canaan, that Promised Land that God wants to take us to, it will be worth any battles we need to fight here.

Pastor Dick: What do you say to somebody that says, "It's just a fairytale, it's just a story"?

Pastor Doug: Well I would tell them that, first of all, they don't have much faith - -

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: - - and they need to believe that a lot of things folks said just couldn't be true ended up being true.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Makes me think of the story of Marco Polo. As he was on his deathbed, a number of the priests from the church came to him and asked him to recant because they still did not believe the stories he had told of China because he had lived right there in the palace of the great Kublai Khan and seen the wonders that we know are true now.

They said, "No, it couldn't be true," this tremendous wall, and gunpowder, and all the things that he said he saw. And he said, "I have not told you the half of what I've seen."

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And sure enough, we find out now it was true and they just needed more faith; and Jesus is telling us that, "I have a place prepared." We can trust Him and it's real.

Pastor Dick: Amen, amen

Pastor Doug: If someone wants to know, we've got something to help strengthen their faith.

Pastor Dick: Well I, you know, I just want to say to everybody who's listening tonight, if you have ever had any question at all, you know, "What is heaven really like? Is it real?" I want to encourage you to get our offer tonight. It's a book called "Heaven: Is It for Real?" It will give you just a glimpse, because, you know, human language fails in our attempts to be able to describe what heaven is really like.

Pastor Doug: Amen

Pastor Dick: But it gives you just a glimpse of what heaven may be like. Is it for real? Yes it is, and we want to make this offer available to you tonight, a book called "Heaven: Is It for Real?" Call our resource operators at 1-800-835-6747 and ask for this resource; the operators will send it out to you. That's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Doug: Pastor Dick, let me just jump in here. I meet some of our friends around the country and they always think that there's some kind of catch. The book is free. There's no obligation. No one is going to go knocking on their door, - -

Pastor Dick: That's right

Pastor Doug: - - and we just want to send it to encourage them.

Pastor Dick: That's right

Pastor Doug: They find that hard to believe, that we are just sending these things out by faith. But that's all there is to it.

Pastor Dick: That's all there is to it. The call is free, the book is free, and nobody, as Doug said, will be knocking on your door. So 1-800-835-6747. We take a couple of Internet questions before we go to the phones Doug. The first one is fascinating to me because I have seen this work myself, okay?

When I was a little boy, there was an old Mexican fellow down where I was growing up and he did this, he found water. So the question is, "Is water divining, the use of sticks to find water, is it biblically acceptable?"

Pastor Doug: Well--and you know, people might be wondering, "What does this have to do with the Bible" but it is a practical question. We get this frequently so we thought we'd throw it in. The practice of--sometimes it's called "water witching."

Pastor Dick: Yes, uh-huh, right.

Pastor Doug: They want to know is this demonic? Is it hocus pocus? Is there anything scientific to it? And you know, I would almost have to say, "The jury is out."

Pastor Dick: [Laughs]

Pastor Doug: I also have known people who were not spiritualistic people who have done this, and they seem to have an awfully high percentage - -

Pastor Dick: Uncanny knack

Pastor Doug: - - of being able to find where water is underground. There are some things that, at one time, we couldn't understand why it worked but it worked. Even the compass needle, originally, they didn't know why it always pointed towards the north star. Now we understand there are magnetic fields.

Sometimes they use these willow twigs. Sometimes they use metal bars. The idea of them pulling together when someone is crossing water, we know water conducts electricity, there may be something scientific to it.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: I have no reason to believe that the devil would have any benefit in helping people find water. So, I'd say, well, there maybe something to it and I can't really give you a Bible answer, except to say that Jacob and Abraham and Isaac often had to find water in the desert. They would dig a well. We don't know how they did that but they managed to find them.

Pastor Dick: That's true, that's true. Alright. Second question, and this is kind of an interesting question, you know. At first thought, you would think, "Hmm," but let's just think about it for a moment. "Is it wrong for a person to want the second coming of Jesus Christ so passionately so that they can be with their deceased loved ones, or is that selfish?"

Pastor Doug: Well, Paul refers to the second coming as "the blessed hope."

Pastor Dick: Yes

Pastor Doug: Matter of fact, the last prayer in the Bible, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Pastor Dick: [Chuckles] amen

Pastor Doug: So to long for His coming, now, a lot of us are conflicted, myself included. You want the Lord to come because, as someone once said, "We're sick and tired of being sick and tired" and you want heaven, which is our theme and our offer for tonight. But at the same time, we may know loved ones that are not ready and so you also want the Lord to hold off.

Pastor Dick: Right, right, right.

Pastor Doug: The Bible says one reason God doesn't come right away, 2nd Peter chapter 3, "He's not willing that any should perish but come to repentance." So He's waiting for as many as possible to come to repentance. But He will come.

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: Ready or not, there will be the day.

Pastor Dick: Amen. Okay. Let's go to the phones. You ready?

Pastor Doug: Okay

Pastor Dick: We'll go first to Los Angeles. We'll talk with Chaka who's listening on KTIE. Good evening Chaka.

Chaka: Good evening, hi, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Fine, and thank you for calling. Your question?

Chaka: I was wondering is it okay for women to be pastors; and is it also okay for women to have short hair?

Pastor Doug: Two questions, two controversial subjects. Let's take them one at a time. What about women being pastors? I want to stick with what the Bible says. There is plenty of evidence in the Bible for women involved in ministry, meaning women who were serving in the capacity of a prophetess or women who might be involved in sharing the Gospel.

The difference is a woman, as an ordained pastor, there is no Bible precedent. Women in the Bible, you'll find, may have been prophets, but not priests.

Chaka: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: And I always like to think of, for instance, Amram and Jochebed had three children that were very unique in that all three of their children were prophets. Their children's names were Miriam, Aaron and Moses. All three were prophets but only Moses and Aaron served as priests, meaning they would offer sacrifice.

The pastoral role, biblically, when you celebrate Communion you lead out in these spiritual functions, is a patriarchal, or a role that is really like the father of a family. And so there's no example of a woman in the Bible serving in the capacity of an apostle or a pastor; but you do have women who were prophetesses.

So, if you can see where the distinction is biblically, that's where I have to stick with it.

Chaka: Yeah, because I've heard of women pastors before.

Pastor Doug: Oh yeah. There are plenty of women pastors; and, you know, I have no burden to condemn those that may respectfully disagree with my position on that, but I can't support it biblically. That's my problem.

Chaka: Um-hm. Also, is it okay for women to have short hair? The Bible says that the woman's hair is her glory.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Now that is in uh, is that 1st Corinthians 14?

Pastor Dick: 14 I think.

Pastor Doug: Or 11? I get mixed up but, sometimes I go back and forth between the passage on tongues. But, you know, it does say it is a shame for a man to have long hair. Paul says even nature tells us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair; and some have wondered, "How long is long? How short is short? How tall is tall?" It's a relevant question that leaves--is a woman never to trim her hair?

Frankly, I think, and this may be a personal opinion, that I think it is more feminine for a woman to have long hair; but a lot of women with long hair bundle it up into a ball because it's easier to manage and then it looks short once again. When Paul talks about a woman's hair being "shorn" where it seems to imply that he's talking about the custom of the day, many have said that, as far as custom is concerned, it is better for a woman to have long hair.

I think there should be a distinction between the styles of men and women in both their clothing and their hair.

Chaka: Um-hmm, because I know a lot of women that have short hair and they have very beautiful, nice hair; short hair cuts.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, and you know, some of it, I think, has to do with just the kind of hair you have. Let's face it, if you have hair that is more curly, it's hard for it to be long because it becomes unmanageable and you start to look like some of these gals that are up in the international space station where it's all over the place.

Chaka: [Chuckles]

Pastor Dick: [Laughs]

Pastor Doug: So, I don't know if that helps at all but - -

Chaka: [Laughs] What about when it's hot in the summertime and you really....What do you do with your hair when it's hot in the summertime and you're tired of having to comb long hair?

Pastor Doug: Well you know, Paul talks about a woman praying with her head uncovered. He doesn't condemn the women for having hair different lengths as much as he says a woman's hair is her glory. It is a fact that as men get older, most men have a thinning of the hair. Women's hair tends to stay longer just because of the different hormones in our bodies.

So Paul said that it is a sign of femininity and a woman, when she prays publicly, should cover her head; but that doesn't say that she should have short or long hair.

Chaka: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps a little bit, but it's a big question, Chaka, and there's only one verse on that. I'm reluctant to build doctrine on one verse.

Pastor Dick: Right, right. Thanks for the call Chaka. We'll go next to Columbia, South Carolina and talk with Trevel who's listening on WBAJ. Good evening Trevel.

Trevel: How are you doing?

Pastor Dick: Good, your question please?

Trevel: Yes. I have two quick questions, but my main one is what was Jesus' name while He was in heaven and is there a Scripture to back that up?

Pastor Doug: When you say "while He was in heaven" do you mean before He came to earth?

Trevel: That's what I'm trying to figure out. The question was asked to my mother so I'm thinking the farthest I can think of in Genesis was either the "Word" or either "Michael", which they never specified, you know, if before He died or after He died and had risen. So I'm taking a guess before He came to earth.

Pastor Doug: Well let me give you a few ideas that, for one thing, God seems to not abide under any one name. But God is so big He has many names. And even among many ancient cultures, when they introduce the Monarch, they had a whole list of glowing adjectives they would use to introduce the Monarch. "The Defender of the Faithful" blah, blah, blah you know.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: They had all these names. Royalty often have two or three or four names. Jesus goes, in Revelation, by many names. He is called, of course--and some of these could have been pre-incarnation names--He goes by the Lamb, the Door, the Word, the Faithful Witness, the Water, the Bread.

I'm operating on just three cylinders right now but there are almost 40 different names that you might find in the Bible to identify Christ.

Pastor Dick: A plethora!

Pastor Doug: A plethora, right, of names. So, what specifically was the name? Well He calls Himself from everlasting to everlasting. He says, Alpha and Omega. I mean, these are some Titles in Revelation. Michael is one that seems to go back before His incarnation. You there?

Trevel: Yeah I'm here.

Pastor Doug: There's a little booklet we offer, if you'd like us to send you a free copy.

Trevel: Okay

Pastor Doug: And it's called "Who is Michael the Archangel?"

Trevel: Okay

Pastor Doug: And then there's another article you can read for free, Trevel, at the Amazing Facts' website. It's called "The Name of God." It doesn't specifically answer what you're asking, but it gives a lot of information on the names of God; and it's an article at the Amazing Facts' website you can read for free.

Trevel: Okay

Pastor Doug: So just go to, or request the booklet on Michael the archangel.

Pastor Dick: Right. You can get both resources either at the website or by calling the number, 1-800-835-6747. Thanks for the call Trevel. We'll go next, Pastor Doug, to Lakeland, Florida. Andrial is listening on the Internet. Welcome Andrial.

Andrial: Hello Pastor Doug. How are you all doing?

Pastor Doug: Very good, and how can we help you?

Andrial: My question tonight is, is it okay for Christians to watch the accurate portrayal of the crucifixion and the final scenes of the life of Christ, mainly dealing with the part of the scourging, the agony, and so forth, or is it too violent to watch some of that on movies or DVDs?

Pastor Doug: Now, would you be thinking specifically of The Passion, for instance?

Andrial: Yes, that, but - -

Pastor Doug: Or any portrayal?

Andrial: It could be any portrayal.

Pastor Doug: It's the principle. So it's the principle you're looking at?

Andrial: Yes. I mean, any portrayal. Is that too violent to see the scourging processes, and so forth?

Pastor Doug: Well, when we read in the Word of what Jesus endured, it should be very disturbing for us.

Andrial: Okay

Pastor Doug: Why a person would want to view that again, unless they're hoping to refresh their appreciation, it is a very violent experience. And I, frankly, don't think there ever has been a TV program, movie or anything that has portrayed what Jesus really did experience. It would be, not only brutal, it would be grotesque and revolting.

Andrial: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Yeah. I mean, they're spitting on Him, and pulling out His beard, and punching Him with a bag over His head, and the whipping; and all that He went through would have been something that would have made anybody want to turn away.

Andrial: I was thinking, in particular, of the movie The Passion, but there are some things in there that I didn't agree with. But I was thinking mainly about that when I asked this question. I was wondering if it was too much to watch.

Pastor Doug: Well, I'll reluctantly admit that I was with the Religious Broadcasters Association before the movie was released and they gave a viewing of it to everybody.

Andrial: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: And then the film crews were there when they came out to interview us, but this was before it was even released. And, you know, I found it very disturbing - -

Andrial: Wow

Pastor Doug: - - and I had regrets that I was there. It was also very moving--and I'm not recommending the movie. Please, don't anyone get that idea but I'm just stating a fact, take it or leave it; but it was very moving. It does make you think of how much Jesus must have loved us. But I wouldn't recommend people deliberately expose themselves to that.

So, hope that helps. There is a Bible principle. It says, "Whatsoever things are just and good, think on these things."

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: We should turn away from those things that are violent.

Andrial: Okay

Pastor Doug: So it's enough to know what the Bible says and I don't think we need to--what's the word--I don't think we need to feast on that, okay?

Andrial: Okay, thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: You're welcome.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Andrial. Let's go next to Bakersfield, California and talk with Sherry, who's listening to us tonight. Welcome Sherry.

Sherry: Hello

Pastor Dick: And your question please.

Sherry: Alright. My question has to do with the justice for Job's children. I'm curious as to why they had to suffer and die and didn't get a chance to live their lives to prove their love for the Lord. They had to die for Job's lesson. I'm just curious, where's the love in that, the children?

Pastor Doug: Well, you not only can ask that question about Job's children--and it wasn't God, it was the devil. Any time innocent people are destroyed, or die, whether they're born with some illness or die in some violent form, God is not willing to see anyone suffer. The Lord sometimes withdraws His restraint from the devil, which is what happened in the case of Job.

And it not only demonstrates the faith that Job had, but it demonstrates the real nature of the war, and the devil. Now, it doesn't mean Job's children weren't saved. So let's assume that Job's children are saved, because it says here in Job that he prayed for them everyday and offered sacrifice for them.

If they died in that tornado that struck their house, and their next conscious thought is the resurrection and the glorified body, do you feel sorry for them?

Sherry: Uh, no [chuckles]

Pastor Doug: I mean, if they died saved, I wish I could trade places with them. Their next conscious thought is eternal life and a glorified body.

Pastor Dick: Amen

Sherry: It's just hard to understand, you know?

Pastor Doug: Well, it is, and I, you know, I've lost a child and I know - -

Sherry: Oh I'm sorry.

Pastor Doug: - - something about the pain of that; and you ask a lot of questions, but you just need to trust God. The things you don't understand you commit to Him. Okay?

Sherry: Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright Sherry.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call. Let's go to San Francisco, California. Bruce is listening on KNDL. Welcome Bruce.

Bruce: And thank you for welcoming me. God bless you guys. Hey, you know, I got a question about apparent healing and being slain in the Holy Spirit. It's Acts chapter 9, verses 3 through 11; and then John chapter 18, verses 4 through 10. Now, we know the story about Paul and his ride to Damascus, falling off backwards on a mule. He came into God's presence. He stood up and he was sent into town to meet with another man and uh - -

Pastor Doug: I'm just wondering, where does it say it was a mule?

Bruce: Well, wasn't he riding on a mule?

Pastor Doug: It doesn't say it anywhere.

Bruce: Alright. Presbyterians were taught that.

Pastor Doug and Bruce: [Chuckles, laughs]

Bruce: But anyway, - -

Pastor Doug: It's not in the Bible, trust me.

Bruce: - - that's what I was told when I was very young and it just stuck.

Pastor Doug: I'm not giving you a hard time. He may have been on a mule. I just wanted you to know it doesn't say that [chuckles].

Bruce: Okay, but I guess when you were a child - -

Pastor Doug: What's the main question, about the healing that Paul went through?

Bruce: And then the other one is the year, you know, where the people came up following Judas? They walked into Jesus' presence looking for Him and He said, "I am He," and they all fell over backwards?

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Bruce: Now, right after that they all stood up, Peter tried to protect Jesus by cutting off a man's ear and a healing took place. Jesus put the ear back on. But isn't this the slain in the Holy Spirit, maybe the people like Benny Hinn are trying to offer to people?

Pastor Doug: Well the difference is, when Jesus said, "I am He," this is in the Gospel of John, and the crowd fell backwards, these were not people who were filled with the Spirit. These were the enemies of Christ that were actually driven away by His glory.

That is more like not people filled with the Spirit. That is more like what will happen to the wicked when Christ comes, and they flee from the brightness of His coming, as it says in 2nd Thessalonians 2:8.

It says the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming and the glory of the Lord; His fierce anger in Isaiah 65. So it's not being slain in the Spirit being blessed. It's being slain in the Spirit being cursed. It's a completely different experience. Now, Paul was converted. It's a different story.

Bruce: I'm watching Benny Hinn. I've never heard that everybody that comes up on the stage to be healed is already baptized in the Holy Spirit, or full of the Holy Spirit, but I think Benny Hinn claims to be. And so when he came into the presence of Jesus, now you're coming into the presence of the Holy Spirit within a man's heart; and that's, kind of, what I was trying to ask you about. It seems that [cross talk] - -

Pastor Doug: Well, first of all, the difference with Paul again, let's use the examples that you brought up, it wasn't a man. It was the actual presence of Jesus.

Bruce: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: And there is no example of any man falling down from the glory coming from another man.

Bruce: Wouldn't that be the Holy Spirit? You say the presence of Jesus [cross talk] - -

Pastor Doug: I'm just telling you in the Bible, there is no example of any of the apostles or religious leaders knocking someone down with the Holy Spirit.

Bruce: So nobody saw Jesus? They just assumed that was Him? They heard a voice?

Pastor Doug: Well when Paul saw Jesus, he saw Him.

Pastor Dick: That's right

Pastor Doug: He said, "I saw the Lord."

Pastor Dick: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: I'm sorry. We don't mean to cut you off but the clock does that to us for our break. We're not going away friends. We just going to take a break. We have a few important announcements. It gives our affiliates a chance to identify their station.

And also, we want to remind you, while you take a drink, take a breath, check out the website,, or even .org, and you'll find out how much we do along with this live, international broadcast. We have our TV programs, our publications, our evangelism training, Internet ministry. We are doing everything we know how to do using every means available to get the Good News out there.

All you've got to do is go to; and in the meantime, we'll be back in just a few minutes with more Bible questions.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back friends. If you have just tuned in, you've found your way to Bible Answers Live. As you can tell from the title of this broadcast, it is a live, international, interactive Bible study. We invite you to listen in and we'll learn from the Word of God together.

If you have a question, you can call the toll-free number, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297; and pray for us as we search the Word together. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Devitt, and we want to go directly to the phones, Pastor Doug, and take our first caller for this part of the program. We'll go to Browns, New York and talk with Lil who's listening on WMCA. Good evening Lil.

Lil: Hello, it's me?

Pastor Dick: It is, well I hope it is.

Lil: Oh, hi. I just have a few questions. Me and my friends, we do Bible study every Friday.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Lil: And we were getting really puzzled about, well, we're both married, so commit to your husbands? That was one question.

Pastor Doug: Well why don't we start there? That's plenty of question all by itself.

Lil: Okay

Pastor Doug: Submitting to the husband, let me just quickly tell you what it does not mean. Some husbands will quote this verse and what they want, really, is their wife to be a slave and they act like a despot, "And you must obey all orders and wishes without question." That's not the kind of submission--the Bible talks about that husbands must love their loves as Christ loves the church.

And husband and wife are partners. The Bible says that Eve was made to be a "help meet" for Adam. She was not a slave. But because of sin in the world, there needs to be a supportive relationship and God has designed that men should be the servant leaders. Matter of fact, the word "husband" means "house band."

Through the love of the husband he is to protect, provide and to wrap his arms around the family. In the areas of a marriage, there should be leadership from the wife and the husband. There are areas of the household operation where my wife is the leader. When it comes to managing the children's school and those operations, she leads out because I travel and there's an understanding there. There are areas where I lead out.

In my family, and this might vary from family to family, my wife leads out in the bills and the checking. I don't even own a checkbook. I take my credit card and a little spending cash. So when it comes to the final authority in the family, the husband is to be the priest of the family.

Lil: Okay

Pastor Doug: Does that, kind of, give you a picture of what that relationship is?

Lil: Yes. It gives me a clearer picture, and I don't know if you have time for one little question.

Pastor Doug: Let's hear what the question is. It might be too big for this call. What is it?

Lil: It says--I don't remember exactly which part of the New Testament--about running the race? What is it we're running, or running?

Pastor Doug: Well, you can read in Hebrews chapter 13, it talks about fixing our eyes on Jesus and running the race that is set before us. Keep in mind, Paul lived back during the time when the Greeks had the Olympics. If you were to run the race, they used to keep the goal ahead of them; and he's saying, "Don't look to the right hand or the left when you're running a race, but you look straight ahead."

So there is endurance in a race. You don't want to give up. If you stumble, you get up and you keep going. So Paul is talking about the determination, the focus of running a race.

Lil: Oh

Pastor Doug: We're not racing against anybody. He's talking about the persistence, the dedication and the training.

Lil: What's the goal though?

Pastor Doug: The goal and the prize is eternal life. Paul says, "I want to lay hold of eternal life," - -

Lil: Oh

Pastor Doug: - - "and to be in the presence of the Lord." You read the verse there in Hebrews 12. It says you fix Jesus before you as the Author and Finisher; and then he says "lay aside the weight." If you run a race you've got weights around your ankles. It's hard to run; so the weights and the sin that doth beset us. Hope that helps Lil.

Pastor Dick: Let's go next to Manchester, Tennessee and talk with Amy who's listening on WDNX. Amy, welcome.

Amy: Yes. I have a question which you, kind of, covered it.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Amy: But one question that was brought up, it's, kind of, that you just had, that if you could answer--maybe give some insight on.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Amy: About as far as submitting to your husband, - -

Pastor Doug: Yes

Amy: As long as it's within a marriage, the intimacy, as far as that is concerned between a husband and a wife, is anything--is everything okay, I should say?

Pastor Doug: Ah, I see where you're going and you're doing a good job of being delicate in the way you ask this question. The Bible does tell us that the married bed is blessed, it's honorable. Sometimes people think that sex was something invented by the devil. Sex is actually something that is beautiful within the marriage relationship.

The first thing God did after Adam and Eve were complete He said, "Go forth, be fruitful", and we know what that involved.

Amy: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But with every blessing of God the devil can pervert that. Food is a blessing. I'm glad that food tastes good. We have to eat.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: We need to procreate if we want children and we need to eat if we want to stay alive, but people can pervert their appetites where it turns into gluttony; and it's not good for your health and it's not good for your soul. That can also be true with the intimacy in marriage. There are things that are obviously not appropriate, not natural, and could be considered perverted or kinky. I'm trying to find biblical words.

Amy: Okay. So you're saying even though it's within the marriage it doesn't make it okay, some things.

Pastor Doug: Oh well, for one thing, if either the husband or wife feels uncomfortable with something, it shouldn't be forced upon the other. There ought to be love and respect. Just because you're married that doesn't mean, like I said, that anything goes.

There's all kinds of bizarre things in the world today that are being justified. That's probably all I ought to say on that subject. I hope that helps you a little bit Amy.

Amy: Thank you

Pastor Doug: You're welcome.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Amy. We'll go next to Port Chester, New York; and we want to talk with Linda who's listening on WMCA. Good evening Linda.

Linda: Good evening Pastor. My question is this business of being slain in the Spirit, - -

Pastor Doug: Yes

Linda: - - I've often questioned that. I've never had a straight answer. All I require is that someone give me one Bible verse to justify what they do; because anytime I have read anything in the Old Testament--I've gone backwards, Eli was immediate death and Ananias and Sapphira, they were slain. They did not speak again so please give me some clarity on this.

Pastor Doug: Well, one of the only verses you can find is where Saul comes looking for David, and this is in 1st Samuel--I don't have the Scripture at my fingertips right now--but he is not wanting to obey God. He's wanting to find David and kill him; and he keeps sending messengers.

Whenever the messengers run into Samuel, they're filled with the Holy Spirit and they prophesy. Finally, Saul falls down and ends up uncovering himself and he's naked. So it's almost like he is humiliated by the Spirit. He isn't filled with love and joy and peace.

Linda: Amen

Pastor Doug: So, these demonstrations you see of people being overwhelmed and then falling down and quivering and shaking, that is something that is typical of many pagan religions in the world. When a person is overcome by the spirits, they loose control, and they begin to fall, and quiver, and babble; and it found its way into Christianity about a hundred years ago. I just don't see a good example for it.

Linda: Me either.

Pastor Doug: You know, I've written a book that actually will give you some more information on this Linda, and it's called - -

Linda: Yes. I need it, because this is not just a five-year thing. This is many, many, many years I've questioned pastors and people in leadership and they just tell me, you know, "You have to submit to authority." And they look cool; but yet, they can't give me a Scripture to back it up.

Pastor Doug: Well make sure everything you do is backed up by the Bible.

Linda: Absolutely!

Pastor Doug: Let me give you a free book. All you've got to do is call the resource number. It's called "Captured by Tongues" and it touches on this business of being slain in the Spirit. It

gives a lot of verses on what it does mean to be filled with the Spirit and the gift of tongues. Pastor Dick?

Pastor Dick: That number, Linda, is 1-800-835-6747. The call is free and we'll send the book out to you if you'll call tonight and ask for it, "Captured by Tongues." Thanks for the call Linda. Let's go next, Pastor Doug, to Portland, Oregon. We want to talk with Rona who's listening on 3ABN. Good evening Rona.

Rona: Hello

Pastor Dick: Your question please?

Rona: My question is after the probation closes and Christ leaves the sanctuary, will the people that are alive be walking without sin, or perfect, because of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

Pastor Doug: Alright. For our friends who are listening, not everybody understands the phrase the "close of probation," the Bible teaches that there will be a period of time just before the Lord comes when those who are saved, and those who are lost are lost, and there's no more changing teams.

Right now, lost people can find grace if they haven't committed the unpardonable sin; and saved people can turn away. Jesus says in Revelation 22, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still. He that is filthy, let him be filthy still...He that is holy, let him be holy still," and so forth. So probably the best analogy in the Bible, Rona, is when Noah entered the ark and the door was shut by the Lord.

Life went on for another seven days. Their probation was closed. Those outside were lost. They could not get in. Those inside could not get out. They were sealed. There will be a similar period of time just before the Lord comes where life may go on for a brief period, but there is no more salvation. And those that are saved can't be lost.

Now, the condition is, will those who are saved be living in the sight of a holy God without an Intercessor? Well they don't need an Intercessor anymore because the purpose of Christ's intercession is to plead for their salvation. When they're sealed and they're saved, they don't need that anymore.

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug (continued): And that's when Michael stands up, during the great time of trouble comes. I'm sorry, you were saying something?

Rona: So the books, then, are just closed, that it's finished?

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Rona: There's no more.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Again, that goes back to Revelation 22, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still."

Rona: Okay

Pastor Doug: And so, Christ has ceased His intercession because He's now coming and there's silence in heaven, so to speak. It says, "No man can enter the temple," because it's full of smoke; meaning, right now we can go into the temple by faith Hebrews tells us and we can plead for forgiveness and Christ intercedes.

But when no man can enter the temple, that means there's no more mercy, no more intercession, and no more atonement.

Rona: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug: So that's when probation closes. That's just before the seven plagues fall. Okay, thank you. Good question.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Rona. Let's go next, Pastor Doug, to Lincolnton, North Carolina. Melvin is listening on 3ABN. Welcome Melvin.

Melvin: Yes. I had a question. A lot of times I'll be dealing with someone from a group that similarly denies like, say, the deity in Jesus Christ.

Pastor Doug: Right

Melvin: And there will be times maybe I won't have my King James Bible laying around and I'll pick up a modern translation. And I'll try to turn to, like--I don't know if it's either 1st of 2nd Timothy 3:16 - -

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Melvin: - - where it says in the King James that God was manifest in the flesh; and it's a very clear passage about the incarnation and the deity. A lot of times, if I use a modern translation, like, if I try to turn to that text, it'll say, like, He hath appeared in a body; or it'll totally weaken it down, you know, because you and I have appeared in a body.

Pastor Doug: Right. I know what you're talking about.

Melvin: There's a qualitative difference you and I and Christ, but it just seems to weaken the Christology, I guess, the doctrine of Christ.

Pastor Doug: You know, I would like to tell you that every Bible translation is done with total objectivity. But the fact is that translations, new translations especially, they're often sponsored by publishers, and the people, the scholars they pick are human and they may have a bias.

Sometimes that bias may come out in being, they could be antitrinitarian. Sometimes the bias could come out in Calvinism or arminianism. Some of the different preferences come through in the translations and their choice of words. So you're probably seeing that in some of the new translations you pick up.

But there's no question about the divinity of Christ because it says very clearly, "All things that were made were made by Him." And then you go to the first word of the Bible, "In the beginning God created...." And so, the One who created is God, and it says all things were made by Christ. You can't argue that. He is God.

Melvin: I looked at an Amplified Bible and that seemed to be very good in the first one that I ran across.

Pastor Doug: Well Amplified Bibles are very objective. They give several words that could be used in the translation; and so it has to be objective. I hope that helps a little bit. Now you know, we do have a book that deals with Bible translations we'll send you. It's called "The Faithful Witness." If you'd like a free copy of that Melvin, just call the number.

Pastor Dick: 1-800-835-6747 Melvin, and ask for,

Pastor Doug: "The Faithful Witness"

Pastor Dick: "The Faithful Witness" and we'll send it out to you tonight. Let's go to Kerrville, Texas. Jim is listening on the Internet. Good evening Jim.

Jim: Yes, hi, good evening.

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Jim: It's a pleasure to talk to you Pastor Doug. My question was about Christ's second coming. And um, do you believe that that could happen at any minute, and if so, does that mean that--is there anything left that needs to be done, like the great tribulation, or has everything already happened?

Pastor Doug: Okay, that's a good question. First, I would like to, just for clarity, say that if we should die, Christ could come for us at any minute, meaning our next conscious thought would be the resurrection. So no man knows how much time he has. Remember Jesus said the fool who wanted to build bigger barns, He said, "This night your soul is required of thee." And He can say that to anybody, you know what I'm saying?

Jim: Right

Pastor Doug: But as far as the literal coming of the Lord in the heavens, there are some things, chronologically, that appear to still need to take place. I just talked a moment ago about you've got the great tribulation, it hasn't happened yet. Jesus said it'll be a "time of trouble such as never has been, nor will there ever be." Well, that hasn't happened.

Some people, of course, believe that that great tribulation happens after the Lord comes. You've got the "pre-trib," the "mid-trib," and the "post-trib" line of thought. Here on this program we believe the tribulation happens before the coming of the Lord. We're actually very old fashioned, because that is the early church belief. So that, obviously, hasn't happened, all that's going to happen with the beast power.

Jim: The great tribulation wasn't, say, during the Dark Ages then?

Pastor Doug: Well there are two. That's a good point. There is the historic tribulation that Jesus spoke of during the Dark Ages from 538 to 1978. But then He says just immediately before the end, Daniel 12, Michael stands up and there's another great time of trouble; and then it says there's a resurrection. Well, that hasn't happened yet.

So this great time of trouble that is connected with the seven last plagues, that is still future.

Jim: Okay

Pastor Doug: I've got a book I'll send you that deals with this, and it's called "Anything but Secret." It talks both about the tribulation, and the second coming and what are the signs, what must happen. A lot of people might enjoy that, "Anything But Secret." We'll send it to you.

Jim: Okay, well I think I can get that off your website I guess.

Pastor Doug: You can read it for free off the website, or we'll send you a hard copy for reference.

Jim: Okay. Okay, well thanks very much.

Pastor Doug: You're welcome

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Jim. Let's go next, Pastor Doug, to New York City. We want to talk with Lisa who's listening on WMCA. Hi Lisa.

Lisa: Hi, good evening, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Good, thanks for calling.

Lisa: This is actually my first time listening to your program. I just happened to be changing the channels and caught it, and I was interested in asking a question concerning the rapture. Can you hear me?

Pastor Doug: Yup. You're cutting out a little bit but we got you.

Lisa: Well, my question is concerning the rapture and, biblically, I've heard various interpretations as to who, exactly, gets raptured. Whether it's a remnant of Christians who are active, as far as actively seeking and anticipating Christ's return, as opposed to anyone who has confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and has accepted Him and has been born again. They will be part of the rapture. I'm just really not sure which is accurate, if any of them are accurate at all.

Pastor Doug: Well, before I say anything else, the book that I just offered the previous caller I will send you a free copy, Lisa. It sounds like you would really enjoy it. The book is all about the rapture. It's called "Anything But Secret." Now, while we do believe that the righteous will be caught up to meet the Lord, we do not think it's a secret.

We think it's probably the most climactic, audible, visible event in the world. Some churches teach it like it's a secret. Who will be raptured? 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 says, to begin with, the dead in Christ rise. Then we who are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

Matthew 24 tells us that Jesus will send His angels to the four corners of the earth and they will gather together the elect. The elect are those who have accepted Christ. Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Lisa: Would that mean anyone who has accepted Christ, even if, let's say they accepted Christ at one point in time in their life and maybe they have backslidden, or they're a new believer. They don't really know the ways of Christianity and the walk, and they just happen to believe but accepted it in their heart. Would they also be included?

Pastor Doug: Well you see, I'm one of these old fashioned believers who thinks that there is no neutral ground. Jesus said you're either with Me or against Me.

Lisa: Right

Pastor Doug: People who are living for the devil cannot be Christ's, you know what I'm saying?

Lisa: Exactly

Pastor Doug: If Christ is not their Lord, then He's not their Lord. And so, there are some people out there who think there's a couple of groups among Christians. You've got practicing Christians and non-practicing Christians. I don't think non-practicing Christians are Christians.

Lisa: Right

Pastor Doug: You see what I'm saying?

Lisa: Exactly

Pastor Doug: So when the Lord comes, that's why Jesus is going to say, "I don't know you" to many people who claim to be His.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Lisa: Who claim to be His, right.

Pastor Doug: And He goes on to say, "You who work iniquity, depart from me. I don't know you." So, there will be a big group who think just taking His name makes them a Christian, but they're not living the Christian life.

Pastor Dick: In fact, He said, "I never knew you."

Pastor Doug: Yeah, yup. So, please send for the book. It's free.

Lisa: Okay

Pastor Doug: Like I said, there's no obligation, no strings attached. We'll just send it to you and you read it, and hopefully, you'll be blessed. It has a lot of Scripture reference. It's called "Anything But Secret" and talks about the rapture and the tribulation, okay?

Lisa: Wonderful, thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: And Pastor Dick will give you that phone number again.

Pastor Dick: Once again, Lisa, that number is 1-800-835-6747. If you call tonight and ask for that book, the operators will take your name and address and they'll send it to you, but nobody will come knocking or anything like that. They'll just send you the book, "Anything But Secret." So call tonight and ask for the book, and thanks for the call Lisa. It's a good question that she posed, Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Yup, that is a good question.

Pastor Dick: Real good question. We want to talk with Gerilee in Sonoma, California who's listening on 89.9. Gerilee, welcome to the program.

Gerilee: Hi. First, I said call at nighttime, but I must have called too late because by the time I got through, you guys were saying, "We have to go now."

Pastor Doug: Well, sometimes we've got the folks standing in line. That's why we try to budget our time with each caller to get as many as possible. And your question?

Gerilee: My question was about divorce. I was wondering if a divorce and an annulment the same?

Pastor Doug: Well it is possible, biblically, to be separated and not divorced. But an annulment, from a biblical perspective, is the same thing as a divorce. An annulment is the government's way of saying, "We are going to cancel the marriage out without a full divorce proceeding because it was such a brief marriage, and probably there were no children."

Gerilee: Yeah

Pastor Doug: So it's sort of like saying, "This was a mistake that was realized quickly after the vows were made and it's going to be retracted." There's no biblical precedent for an annulment.

Gerilee: Because that's what happened to my roommate and I. We were husband and wife, but we stayed in separate rooms in separate beds. We're going to find a place where he can have a place of his own and I have a place of my own; but right now we can't afford to.

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: So did you get married and you got it annulled?

Gerilee: Yeah, we had to because he lost his SSA checks, Social Security. We want to be honest before God and, you know, and (unintelligible); because we don't believe in lying to the government, at least I don't.

Pastor Doug: Well that's right, but people need to keep in mind that when you get married, and when you make vows in the presence of God, that is very serious business.

Gerilee: Yeah, and back then--although I don't like to lie anyway--but I wasn't quite a Christian yet. I mean, I didn't know what it meant being a Christian. And his sister took us to get an annulment because (unintelligible), you know, us being--having a disability, you know, like - -

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well, we actually have some information. We have a whole lesson on what marriage is all about. I'd like to send you a free copy of that. It's "Happiness for Husbands and Wives" Gerilee. I'd invite you to read that and look at some of the foundational principles for marriage. It would be a blessing and I think very edifying. "Happiness for Husbands and Wives", we'll send it to you free.

Pastor Dick: 1-800-835-6747 Gerilee. Please call that number and ask for "Happiness for Husbands and Wives." Thanks for the call. We'll go next, Pastor Doug, to Lincoln City, Oregon. Paul is listening on Hope TV. Welcome Paul.

Paul: Yes, Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: Yes?

Paul: We have a question about a case of a missing wallet; and we have special prayer to the Lord, if He would please help this fine Christian lady find her wallet. Why does God sometimes answer prayers, and other times, not answer prayers?

Pastor Doug: That's interesting you would ask that question because at our revival meeting in Texas this week, we were at a large coliseum with hundreds of people, and a gentleman lost his wallet. He came back the next night and his wallet was there still in the seat in the coliseum; and he said he had been praying all day that they would find it and there it was.

He thought that was a real miracle because this building had a lot of traffic in it. But sometimes, your right, it doesn't happen. My wife lost her purse one time and it created a challenge. We prayed, and never found it.

Pastor Dick: Never found it.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, and other times we have. I've lost my wallet and things, and we prayed, and it has been found; and keys and things. So, I don't know, but you know, when we get to heaven we'll say, "Lord, why this time and not this time?" and He'll have a good answer.

Paul: Okay, very good. Thank you Pastor Doug. God bless.

Pastor Doug: Alright, God bless you.

Pastor Dick: Paul, thanks for the call. Pastor Doug, we have less than two minutes. I'm afraid, but - -

Pastor Doug: Let's try one more real quick.

Pastor Dick: Okay. We'll see what we can do. We'll go to Yvonne in Frederick, Maryland. Welcome Yvonne.

Yvonne: Hello. Pastor Doug, I watched your Revival 05 and I wanted to say that it was absolutely wonderful.

Pastor Doug: Oh bless your heart, thank you so much.

Yvonne: My husband and I really enjoyed it; but my question is, I feel a burden on my heart to ask you this. What does the Bible say about, if anything, about proper worship during service?

Pastor Doug: Well you know, I touched on that a little bit during the revival; but there is a trend, of course, in the churches today to have the worship be centered around the people who are coming, where real, biblical worship should be focused on God - -

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: - - and honoring Him, praising Him, worshiping Him, singing to Him, giving to Him. And so we, sort of, have turned the arrow upside down. Instead of the worship pointing to God, we think the worship should point to us: are we entertained? are we blessed? That would be the quick answer; let's make sure that it is biblically-founded and God-focused in the worship.

Oh, thank you. Good question Yvonne. I could have spent a whole hour on that one. Again listening friends, if you missed the 05 Revive program, the Drawing Near, if you'd like to be closer to God, then you'd appreciate the programs. You can watch them right now online and I think it's free.

Just go to the website. You can listen in English or in Spanish. I think, eventually, we're going to even have the Portuguese. It was in Portuguese and Korean translation as well. Again, take a look at the Amazing Facts' website and Bible University website.

We've got a lot of questions on the Sabbath subject. All you have to do is go to You'll find a lot there as well. So friends, keep us in your prayers. Remember this is a faith ministry; and it's because of you we are able to stay on the air. God bless!


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