Flat-Earthers

Flat-Earthers

Date: 04/29/2012 
Have you ever heard of “The Flat Earth Society”? Evidently, even after the launch of thousands of satellites, dozens of manned space flights, including multiple trips to the moon, and thousands of ships that have sailed around the globe, there are still educated people who believe “the earth is flat”.

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Hello friends, this is Doug Batchelor, how about an Amazing Fact? Have you ever heard of “The Flat Earth Society”? Evidently, even after the launch of thousands of satellites, dozens of manned space flights, including multiple trips to the moon, and thousands of ships that have sailed around the globe, there are still educated people who believe “the earth is flat”. Despite all of the evidence of the contrary, they have their heads firmly planted in the sand and refused to accept, the earth is a sphere.

The International Flat Earth Society begun in 1956 even has an official logo, showing that our planet is as flat as a dinner plate. Yes, they're serious. The society also took the position that the Apollo moon landings were a hoax, staged by Hollywood and based on a script by Arthur C. Clark. Someone once said, “A person convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still”. So how much evidence does it take to change a person’s mind? Stay with us friends, and we’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live”.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: Hello listening friends. Welcome to Bible Answers Live, and you can probably cypher from our name, this is a live international, interactive bible study, if you have a bible question, we’re inviting you to call in, it’s a free phone call, and yes, we still have some lines open. So pick up your phone now and the number is 1-800-463-7297, for your questions tonight, dial 1-800-463-7297. I should also mention at this point, that we are streaming from the studio again, tonight, the address, if you’d like to take a peak here on the studio, it’s “Live.amazingfacts.org”, that’s Live.amazingfacts.org. and want to welcome those, who are tuning in via the internet, my name is, what is my name? Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross : And my name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends. Pastor Doug, let’s begin the program with prayer. Father, we thank you that we are able to be involved in this bible study and we pray for your special blessing, be with those who are listening, wherever they might be. And we pray for wisdom Lord as we search your book here. For I ask this in Jesus name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well Pastor Doug, you opened by talking about a group of people. Well it’s almost hard to believe that, well, are convinced that the world is flat, and despite all of the evidence that’s been given, they still insist that everybody else is wrong and they’re right.

Pastor Doug: But the amazing thing is, “they try to concoct scientific evidence for this”. And it’s, you know, it’s laughable to most people and it’s really sad, when you think that, there are people that are serious. What would make a person; want to go down that road, in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And then you remember in the bible, there’s that one story where, even after Jesus resurrected Lazarus, who had been dead 4 days, firmly confirmed that he was dead. The enemies of Christ, in order to deny His divinity, His power, they said, “Let’s not only kill Jesus, we better kill Lazarus because he’s living proof of Christ power”. And you would think, why would someone deny that kind of evidence, why would the pharaoh chase the children of Israel, down into the red sea, in the face of all those miracles that had been done to show that God was with Israel? And then you think about the religious leaders who came to Jesus, and they said, “Show us a sign”. Well, He had given them so many signs. They said, “Give us another sign so we can know that you’re the Messiah”. And Jesus said, and this is “Matthew 12, verse 38 through 40”, He said, “It’s an evil and adulterous generation that seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah”. You know, the miraculous way that Jonah survived that fish after 3 days and 3 nights, is a type of the resurrection of Christ. And He was basically saying, “Look, you accept that Jonah survived that experience, no one could really survive. Well, I’m going to give you a similar sign”. And even though Jesus rose from the dead, they paid the guards to say, that it didn’t really happen. And so, how much evidence does it take? If a person’s honest, Jesus said, you know, “You’ll search and you’ll know the truth”, but if a person is lying to themselves, then, you know, there’s almost no evidence. By the way, we do have a free offer that talks about this very interesting sign, you know, Christ gave, they said, “This is the sign, the sign of Jonah”. There is a lot more to the story of Jonah, that teaches us about Jesus then most people think. And we have a free offer, we’re going to send you that book, all you have to do is ask for it, it’s called, “The sign of Jonah”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call is 1-800-835-6747 just ask for the book, “The sign of Jonah”, the number again is 1-800-835-6747 and the book to request is “The Sign of Jonah”. Well Pastor Doug, we’re going to go straight to the phone lines. We have Damian, who listening from Arizona. Damian, welcome to the program.

Damian: Hello brothers.

Pastor Doug: Evening. How are you?

Damian: Pretty good

Pastor Doug: And your question tonight?

Damian: Well I got a question, as of right now, the government, well, Barrack Obama’s office just passed a, of some type of law that requires all Americans that’s getting medical help from them, to get a R.F.I.D, “Radio, Frequency, Identification” and I want to know what’s up with that. You know, what do you think, would you get that?

Pastor Doug: I’ve heard, I’ve heard rumblings in some of the back ground news stories. Of course, they’ve already got these devices because, you know, we’ve got a dog

Damian: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: we adopted and when we adopted the dog, they insisted that

Damian: Yeah

Pastor Doug: it has one of this little; it’s about of the size of a grain of rice, that they injected and it’s skinned under its neck somewhere. So if it’s ever lost, they wave their wand over it and they can relocate it. And so, I’ve heard that it’s been used in certain military forces before because they’ve, to help them I.D soldiers, or that it was going to be. So, you know, it would surprise me, that, that is on the agenda somewhere, to, you know, try to say, “For security purposes, to identify, you know, illegal aliens, or terrorists, or, you know, whatever reasons

Damian: Yeah

Pastor Doug: they come up with, that you just put these identifying things. I think most Americans are going to fight that for a while.

Damian: Of course.

Pastor Doug: The day may come where we, you know, whenever we’re scared, we sacrifice some of our freedoms, but I don’t believe that the mark of the beast, if that

Damian: You’re not?

Pastor Doug: if that was what you’re wondering. Now

Damian: Well I don’t think it is, it might can be the start of it though, you know, because they said, by 2014 “They want everyone on it” not just, you know, it’s going to be used in the hospitals and all of that, they want it basically everywhere, you know, now. I know it’s been years and years since they’ve been using it, but why make it a law? It’s just not like, you know, what it seems to be, don’t force me to get nothing, you know, and make me decide, whether get this or take care of my own self and get the medical treatment that I’ve been getting.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Damian: You know what I mean? That’s all I’m saying.

Pastor Doug: Well, I think that it is true, that everything from super cards, a “super card” is like, you know, one card, that you don’t need to carry 12 different cards online, you tell the computer data base, who your carriers are for your 1 card, whether it’s Visa or Master Card or American Express, your drivers license information is on there, the magnetic strip will have all your stuff, so when they swipe your card, all your banking information, everything’s on that card, you got a personal pin. And so, they’re moving towards a super card, and whether they use that card and they use something under the skin, some RF ammeter. That, to me is not really the issue, that’s what they’re going to use maybe, to measure buying and selling. But the mark of the beast, itself, in other words, God is not going to judge us because we’ve got certain I.D, we’re going to be judged because of belief. And so, you know

Damian: Well what about, you know, “Matthew 16, chapter 25, 26”? You know, I believe that, you know, this is something that we’re going to have to decide to do, you know, and I, would you get it?

Pastor Doug: No, I’d fight that to the nail if

Damian: Well, would you get it if you depended on, if you’re taking medical, you need the medical, I’m pretty sure you don’t need government medical but whoever has to pay for that medical, they don’t have to get it, but I’m just talking about the people that need medical through the government. So, would you get it if it depended on your life?

Pastor Doug: Well, it’d be easy for me to say no right now, but you know, when a person is at the point where they, you know, maybe are suffering physically and there, you know, someone’s saying “Look, in order for you to get this pill that’s going to save your life, you got to get this, you know, this identification”, who know what you’ll say when you’re being tortured, scared. But that’s not the mark of the beast.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right, I mean, I’m not going to be the 1st one in line to get anything like that but the mark of the beast is a far big issue, something that affects worship, that’s what the devil wants and he’s going to try at the end of time to get the whole world to worship him, except for those whose names are written in the “Lambs Book of Life”. You know Pastor Doug, we have a book entitled, “The Mark of the Beast”, actually Amazing Facts study guide, and we’ll be happy to send this to Damian or anyone wanting to learn more about this important subject. The number to call is 1-800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide “The Mark of the Beast”. The number again, is 1-800-835-6747. We’ve got Jackie who is listening from San Diego. Jackie, welcome to the program.

Jackie: Thank you, Good evening gentlemen.

Pastor Doug: Hi.

Jackie: Hi. My, I’ve been studying the sanctuary and my question is, did the priest prepare and cooked show bread on the Sabbath day?

Pastor Doug: Well, I think they would set it out then, that’s a good question. You know, it makes sense that they would

Pastor Jëan Ross: I believe they did.

Pastor Doug: prepare it that day, in order to set it out that day.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Was fresh.

Pastor Doug: Just like. Yeah. You want to make your bread fresh when you set it out, and I think they replace it, about every day because and that’s what David, when David hid in the temple, or when he went and got the “Sword of Goliath” from the temple, they, he said “he was hungry”, they said, “The only bread they had was like, the day old of show bread that was in the sanctuary” and he had to talk to the priest a little bit to get permission to eat that. But yeah, I guess they did make it fresh that day.

Jackie: Okay. But I was reading Stephen Haskell’s book on it and.

Pastor Doug: What does he say?

Jackie: He says that “come Sabbath day, the Levites made 12 loafs of cake, the cakes were place on the table, hot, each Sabbath day”.

Pastor Doug: You know, I’ve got a lot of respect for Stephen Haskell. If he says that, I’m going to side with him.

Jackie: Okay.

Pastor Doug: I think that he’s probably right on that. Hey I appreciate that. And by the way, anyone out there, if you want to read some good books on prophecy, Stephen Haskell, you can probably Google that and find his book on Daniel and Revelation are tremendous, they’re, I guess, about a hundred years old but they’re still, those truths are still very relevant today. Appreciate you call Jackie, thank you.

Pastor Jëan Ross : We’ve got Craig, who is listening from Iowa. Craig, welcome to the program.

Craig: Yes, I called you last week about the translations. Anyway, you’re my favourite place to call, I wish I could talk longer to you, but I’ve got a question tonight on the power of the Holy Ghost or the Speaking in tongues. I’ve watched many of your sermons, probably a hundred or so, and I’ve seen you talk about or heard you talk about it before, about whether it’s for real or not, I mean, I know what the book of acts says, that, you know, that they spoke in different languages, I understand that part, but I was involved in a non-denominational Christian ministry and they were on your side, they were in California there

Pastor Doug: Okay

Craig: and I don’t want to mention their name

Pastor Doug: Alright.

Craig: but I fell away from there because of things. But anyway, they stressed, they powered the Holy Ghost on receiving it, and speaking in tongues, and I, everybody in the whole place received it except for me and the pastor told me, if I didn’t get it, I was going to hell and I fell away because of that, I think, because I started losing faith, you know, and everything and you mentioned, I fell away and went back in descending again for years before I came back to the Lord. So I just didn’t know if you think it’s demonic to receive that power or

Pastor Doug: Well.

Craig: it not.

Pastor Doug: teaching people. I’m sorry to jump in here but teaching people Craig, that they are lost if they don’t speak in tongues is very unbiblical. Paul is clear in “1st Corinthians 12, that the gift of tongues is one of many gifts”, and he specifically says, “Do all speak in tongues?” and the obvious answer is no, we said, “We all have different gifts”, he says, “To one is given” and I’m now in “1st Corinthians chapter, verse 8, chapter 12 verse 8”. “For the one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom, to another, the word of knowledge about the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healing”. Other words, not all have these same gifts, to another, work in a miracles, to another prophecy, to another, discerning of spirits, to another diverse kinds of tongues, to another interpretation of kind, tongues. So he makes it pretty clear, that these gifts are distributed, and the idea that everyone is supposed to speak in tongues, and of course, the way that people are speaking in tongues, is also, there’s some question about that.

Craig: Yeah. That’s what I’ve wondered, because I’ve been right next to people when they actually received it or I assume they received it because it happened to him right before me, and it just amazed me, you know what I mean? And I just kept praying for him, praying for him, for 6 years and never received it.

Pastor Doug: Well, you know what? There’s a counter fit for every truth of God, there’s a counter fit for love, there’s a counter fit baptism, counter fit spirit, counter fit for tongues, there’s a counter fit for every truth. The devils got some kind of false, our aberration of it. By the way, in “1st Corinthians 12, 13”, it says, “Have all gifts of healing, do all speak with tongues, do all interpret?” He’s just saying, “Of course not, are all apostles, are all prophets, no?” So it’s just one of the gifts, and some people have these gifts of the Spirit, God gives them a gift for the ability to speak in many languages, or to interpret tongues but. Now I do have a free book I can send you on that, if you’d like a copy Craig.

Craig: Oh yeah.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Craig: Yeah, because I get information from you guys all the time, so anything else I can get, I should

Pastor Doug: Well I went to the same church that you went to and I was exposed to the same teaching, I think, that you ran in to, and I really studied the issue of tongues several years ago, and that inspired me to write a book on this, that, you know, it is very direct, I think it’s very biblical and there’s a lot of strange things out there, that are called the gift of tongues, I believe in all the gifts, I believe in the gift of tongues, but not the way some people are doing it. So, we’ll send that to you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The book is entitled, “Understanding Tongues”, and we’ll be happy to send that to anyone, who call our resource line and ask, the number is 1-800-835-6747, the book again, “Understanding Tongues”, 1-800-835-6747. We have Johnny who is listening from Miami Florida. Johnny, welcome to the program.

Johnny: wow, thank you sir. Good evening and by the way.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Johnny: I’m calling because I have a little (Inaudible 17:14) today. You see, I have a friend that, his parents worships idols, they have idols on their house, okay? And, I, pretty much, I go to their house and I spend the week end with them, and someone told me “that I don’t ever supposed to befriend them” with people that worships idols because, I mean, Jesus doesn’t have anything to do with the unbiblical, and that’s supposed to be a devil religion. So I wondered if you can clarify that for me because, I mean, they told me “that the bible forbid me to befriend with someone that has, or worships the, you know, the idols”.

Pastor Doug: Well I would say, you know, one of the challenges is, when the gospel 1st took off in Asia, when the apostles began to go to non-Christians, everybody spoke, I mean, everybody had idles they prayed to. And when Paul went to preach to the Greeks, he said, “You’ve got a God to everything, you’ve even got an idle to the unknown God”, and Paul spent time with these different people, to reach them. And so, you know, if you have friends that don’t understand bible truth, you know, there’s a different kinds of idolatry, some people go to church, and they still pray to idles. You know, you walk sometimes in a Chinese restaurant; they might have a little Buddha there. Well, are you not supposed to eat in that restaurant because they got a Buddha at the entrance? I think you can take that too far, even Paul talks about that and he said, “Look, an idle is nothing”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, that’s 1st Corinthians chapter 8, and verse 4” where he writes, “Therefor, concerning eating things offered to idles, we know that an idle is nothing in the world, and that, there is no other God but 1”.

Pastor Doug: So if you’ve got friends that are mixed up on this, you know, one way to reach them is by being there friend, but for you to isolate yourself from anybody that doesn’t believe just like you, that’s hard to do evangelism like that.

Johnny: Okay, alright, thank you.

Pastor Doug: So, you know, just tell your friends, “Look, I don’t agree with idolatry and here’s the bible reasons for it”, you might help him, but if you.

Johnny: I already told them that I’ll explain them and even though they, I mean, their Cubans, so we’re Cubans and they cook with the, they used to cook with, you know, pork fat, and they stopped doing that because I don’t eat pork.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Johnny: So they see the different on me so, you know, they’re trying to but I don’t know.

Pastor Doug: Well if, yeah, you know, whenever you’re in a situation where someone is trying to convert you, if you’re not able to reach them and they’re not getting anywhere, you don’t want to spend a lot of time with somebody that’s trying to undermine your faith. But that’s a good question Johnny, appreciate your call.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Loretta, who is listening from Savannah Tennessee. Loretta, welcome to the program.

Loretta: Yes, thank you Pastors, I appreciate your ministry. I have 2 quick questions form the “Book of Kings”. The 1st one is in the story, where the king sends the 50 men for Elijah 2 times

Pastor Doug: Yeah, “2nd Kings, chapter 1”

Loretta: and he calls”, yes, “he called down fire on them”. Why did he do that?

Pastor Doug: Well.

Loretta: Since they were just kind of doing their job.

Pastor Doug: You know, this happens after Elijah prays and fire comes down, when the prophets of Baal, were praying to a false God. Even after this experience of God’s, demonstration of God’s power, the son of Ahab was so stubborn, that he was still going to pagan God’s for information, and so, when he send soldiers to arrest Elijah, Elijah is basically reminding the whole nation, you know, “God has already shown you His power, when fire came down on the top of mount Carmel, and you’ve all seen He’s the true God, and here, you still have a King that refuses to acknowledge the God of heaven”. And he’s

Loretta: Okay.

Pastor Doug: starting to lead the people astray. So he had to do something drastic, when they came to arrest him, God had already shown that Elijah was His man, that He was going to protect him. And yeah, it was pretty severe; you’ll notice the third captain that came with his 50, he asked for mercy

Loretta: Yeah, he

Pastor Doug: and Elijah showed him mercy.

Loretta: Yes, exactly. Okay, so basically, Elijah had reason to do that and it was very drastic.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. When you, when a person was being very disrespectful to God’s prophet, it was showing disregard for God’s word. Keep in mind, when Elisha began to work, following Elijah, he prayed, some kids came out of the city, taunting and teasing him, they didn’t understand to respect his important office that God had given him, and he prayed, and some bearers came out of the woods, and mauled about 42 children, I think. So it was a serious thing to, when God had a national prophet that was the voice of God to the nation, to tease or to undermine that very sacred office, sometimes there were serious judgements that came on those people.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, something else with reference to that story, fire coming down from heaven is often associated with judgement. You have the story of “Sodom and Gomorrah”, fire came down and destroyed the city, and God had demonstrated very powerfully, that He is the true God, and yet, despite all of the evidence, kind of, as we spoke at the beginning of the program, the majority of those in Israel, still refuse to accept the true God and the fire coming out from heaven on the soldiers, in type, could be warning of further judgement that would come upon Israel, if they kept rebelling against God.

Pastor Doug: So I hope that helps a little Loretta. We appreciate your call tonight. Got time for a couple more before the break maybe.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Jim who is listening from New York. Jim, you’re on the air.

Jim: Jim is here.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We can hear you.

Jim: Okay, I read in “Acts chapter 20 verse 10” that Paul revived someone that was dead. And I read in “Acts 16 verse 18” that Paul exercise the needle sprit. So presumably, the apostles had the authority to exercise spirits and to revive the dead? Alright, and so that leads to the basic question, the 2 major denominations (inaudible 23:46-23:48), I have the priests clamming at the apostolic succession. Can you comment on that subject, is there any biblical basis, of priests having apostolic succession.

Pastor Doug: Well, the arguments made, that, you know, the apostles would lay, their, Jesus laid His hands upon them, they walked with Jesus. To have any apostles that actually saw Jesus, there was only one generation of apostles like that. As far as the apostles then laying hands on bishops and elders that were to lead the church, we still have that today; nobody really claims to be an apostle today because we don’t have that generation that really walked with Jesus that saw Him. Now, Paul was later called an apostle because Christ appeared to him. So everyone that wrote part of the bible, these are people that Jesus appeared to, or they had 1st hand accounts for them. To claim apostolic succession, you know, I think is, you know, obviously, you don’t see the same gifts of the spirit in many church leaders that you had in the apostles but, having said that Jim, I do think, in the last days, God is going to pour out His Spirit again and were going to see the power of the Spirit in the same way, and you may see people casting out devils and raising the dead because that power was not just given to the apostles, when God’s Spirit moves, you know, we’ve seen a number of people do wonderful things. Anyway, appreciate your question on that. We have time for one more, you have a though on that?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, we do have a book dealing with the power of the Holy Spirit; it’s called “Life in the Spirit” and Jim, if you’d call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747, ask for the book, “Life in the Spirit”, we’ll be happy to send that to you. Let’s see if we get time for one more before the break. Cloud is listening from Brooklyn New York. Cloud or Claud, welcome to the program.

Cloud: Yes, hi, good day gentlemen.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Cloud: I want to know. Is there a biblical prohibition against gambling or what would be the basis of your, discouraging Christian participation?

Pastor Doug: Alright, Good question. You’re not going to find the word gambling in the bible, you also won’t find the word marijuana, tobacco, or heroine in the bible, there’s some things, they didn’t use those terms but the principle of trying to get something for nothing or getting rich quickly, it does say in the bible, “Proverbs” tells us, “Do not make haste to get rich, he that does that will not be innocent”. And the premise of gambling, is really, you want to get, you know, it’s not really that your winning money from the houses, they say “the house got its money from the losers”, and the idea that you want to win it, the expense of all these other people losing, without really providing any service, I think there is a moral problem with that. And by the way, if someone gets addicted to something, Just on my way to the program tonight, I hear a commercial, “broadcasters are required to often promote commercials that will help the public”, and it was a commercial on people that are struggling with gambling addictions. The very fact that a person can get addicted and they run up their credit card, they neglect their children and they turn to drinking and drugs because of the discouragement and sometimes, even a crime to get the money to keep gambling. The atmosphere is not good, and so if we just ask, you’ll know them by their fruits, the fruit of gambling is not good, it does a lot more harm than good. You got a thought on that Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well you, just like what you’re saying Pastor Doug, look at the fruits, look at the results, how many families have been torn apart just because of that,

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: that gambling.

Pastor Doug: That’s right. Hey we appreciate your question Claud, and you know, were going to have to write a book on that sometime, helps people, that subject. You’re listening to Bible Answers Live.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, just before we go on the break, we like to pause for just a few moments and talk about some of the websites that Amazing Facts has. One that we haven’t spoken about for a while, it’s got an intriguing title, “666truth.com”, just “666truth.com”.

Pastor Doug: That’s right, and we’ve got a video there that I think, has been seen about 250 thousand times on YouTube, people want to know, “What is the number 66 mean and how is this connected with the name of anti-Christ”, and if they go to that website, “666truth, 666truth.org”, they’ll see sermon presentations, you know, a lot of people wonder, “what does that number mean?” and, you know, what can I do about it? Why, is it only found once in the bible? Actually, the number is found more than once in the bible and it’s, you’ll like all the different facts that you find at that website, that tell you about “666”, the number, it’s an interesting number, “666truth”. Don’t go away, we’re going to have more questions.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: We’re back friends, to Bible Answers Live, BAL, if you have a bible question, please give us a call, we have a couple of lines still open, that’s 800, here’s the number, free phone call, 1-800-463-7297, 800, say it slower, 463-7297 brings you into the studio, have a pencil handy, so you can write down, not only that phone number but “Amazingafacts.org”. And if you want to tune in to the streaming of tonight’s broadcast, that’s simply, “Live.amazingfacts.org” and I’m Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross and we’re going to go straight to the phone lines. Enoch is listening from Orlando Florida. Enoch, welcome to the program.

Pastor Doug: Hi Enoch, welcome.

Enoch: Hey, thanks for taking my call. So here’s what I’m going to say to make it very quick. Marriage seem like a business to me, how do we know for a fact, that when the bible talks about fornication, that it means, sex before marriage being a sin? Because I consider some sex before marriage a sin but what if it is a guy and a girl that are very, very faithful to each other, and you can have 2 people who are married and cheat on each other constantly. So is sex before marriage really a sin because I think it’s absurd to say it is? What are your thoughts Doug?

Pastor Doug: Well you’ll think I’m absurd, but it’s pretty consistent in the bible that, that, becoming one flesh and joining together in Marriage, it even says “that Joseph knew not Mary, until Jesus was born” because, you know, there was something sacred about that, but the idea of 2 people coming together in sexual intimacy like that was, these 2 people threw an act of love, they’re becoming one flesh, they co, they procreate in their own image by combining who they are, the cells come together and, it’s just a miracle, how 2 people, 2 separate individuals can combine their essence somehow, and it becomes another person, a child in their image, and that’s one of the ways that God made man in His image, is that man is able to procreate in his own image, though love. So, for people to recklessly use that gift in that sacred, it’s, you know, sex is a good thing, within marriage, but to use it just for selfish gratification, without the protection of a family, you can look in our culture today and saw these kids that are born in families, not always, but largely because of promiscuity, and they grow up without fathers, sometimes without mothers and that was never God’s plan, we need that whole unit.

Enoch: I mean, I agree with you on that, in that sense but, like what if, you know, I have a girl, a girlfriends, like a very serious girlfriend and I don’t.

Pastor Doug: But why don’t you get married, why don’t you wait?

Enoch: Because it just doesn’t seem.

Pastor Doug: It’s hard.

Enoch: It seems like a business, it just seems like a business.

Pastor Doug: (Laughing)

Enoch: I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem right.

Pastor Doug: Well it’s a sacred ceremony, if you want to call it a business but, you know, it tells us that were planned, you look in the bible, with Jacob, “He worked 7 years and waited for Rachel, he worked and waited 7 years for his wedding night because, you know, he needed to kind of earned the right and to be able to have that relationship”. So, you know, in the bible, it’s pretty clear that, when 2 people come together. In some countries, when people came together without the benefit of ceremony, they were declared married because they just said, “Look, if you’re going to have that kind of relationship that has the potential of producing children, you need to become a family unit and get married”. I would wonder, why would you want to have that kind of a relationship with a woman, if you don’t want to marry that?

Enoch: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So, you know, the bible is pretty clear on this, both New and Old Testament, and we do have, actually a book we can send you, I just wrote, well, it’s been a few months now, but it’s talking about, “Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage”, it just talks about, purpose of marriage is addressed in that book. We’ll send you a free copy Enoch, if you call the number.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number is 800-8356747; you can ask for the book “Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage”, number again, 800-8356747. Next caller is Charles listening from Toronto Canada. Charles, welcome to the program.

Charles: Hello pastors, thank you for taking my call, good evening to you.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Charles: MY question for you is, I know I’ve read this in the bible before, I’ve heard this. The sins of the mother and father are passed down to the children for 7 generations. An example I can give you very quickly is, you know, the Jews took Jesus to Pilate, they, Pilate washed his hands. The Jews said, “Look, the blood of Christ be on our heads and our children’s heads, for generations to come. I’m just wondering what your thought are on the subject.

Pastor Doug: Well, there’s a principle in the bible, it says that, “the father is not responsible for the sins of the son, and the son is not responsible for the sins of the father”, and you’ll find that in “Ezekiel 18”, for one thing. And, but, when it tells us in the 10 commandments, “that He shows mercy unto thousands of those that love Him and keep His commandments but He visits the inequity of the fathers, upon the children until the 3rd, 4th generation”, it doesn’t mean that God punishes a child for the behaviour of the father, it means, the behaviour of the parents is taught to the children and that result may last 3 or 4 generations.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And it’s also interesting, the word that’s used, the word used is “The inequity”. In scripture, you have the words, sin, transgression, and inequity, each of them have a different aspect of what we consider sin today, but inequity is really that bent towards self, it’s that selfishness, and that is perpetuated if you have selfish, self-centered parents, their children are going to pick up those same character traits and probably teach it to their children.

Charles: I see, I understand, that makes sense now.

Pastor Doug: You know.

Charles: So let me (inaudible 37:09) on the same question then. Are, what the Jews did to our Lord Jesus Christ, is that curse upon the Jewish people, is that why there’s so many bad things that happened to them or not?

Pastor Doug: Well there was, and I always, you know, we have new listeners and just to keep prospective, I like to mention that, you know, my family, my mother’s side, in a way, is Jewish and so, I’m trying to be as objective as possible, but it is pretty clear that there was a curse pronounced on the, at least, the national leaders, Jesus left the temple, He said, “Your house has left you desolate” He said, “there would not be left one stone upon another”, and that generation experienced a lot of struggling pain with the destruction of Jerusalem. So must bible scholars agree that at least that generation did suffer the consequences? Christ, matter a fact said, “A lot of guilt that reached all the way from Able to Zachariah that were killed, was going to fall out on that generation”, and with the destruction of Jerusalem, it was just horrific, what happened. And Josephs describes that you couldn’t even find a tree around Jerusalem because they’ve all been cut down to make crosses, and the people inside the city, when the Romans beseeched them, they turned to cannibalism and it was just a terrible, terrible thing that happened. And so, many have though, well “that was the generation that really suffered”. So when people say, well you know, “this last century, what the Nazis did to the Jews, that, that was somehow payment for what the Jewish nation had done 1900 years earlier”, I don’t think you can say that, I think that there is, you know, what excuse will you make for the people that died in the genocide between in Cambodia or in Africa and other places, can’t blame that on what happened to Jesus. So, there’s just evil in the world and that was the fall out of that.

Charles: I see.

Pastor Doug: But yeah, that 1st generation definitely suffered and Christ said that, that would happen, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the temple. Hey, you know, I do have a book I can send you on that subject, and it’s talking about “Spiritual Israel”, talks a little bit about that and it’s free, if you like a copy Charles.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number is 800-8356747, that is the resource line, 1-800-835-6747. And the book, Pastor Doug, “Spiritual Israel” and we’ll be happy to send it to anybody who calls and asks for it. 1-800-835-6747, we have Sy who is listening from Atlanta Georgia. Sy, welcome to the program.

Sy: Hey Pastor Doug, I got a quick question; I also got a quick comment. My question is when will be the time for us to flee the city and, you know, head for the countries? I know, back in Jesus time, that Jesus said that “Whenever you see that Jerusalem is surrounded, that will be the time for, you know, for them to flee back in those days”. So would it be that, when the government passes laws conflicting with the law, with God, will it be at that time, we need to just get up and flee?

Pastor Doug: Well, the verse you’re talking about is in “Luke 21, 20”, Jesus said, “When you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, know that the desolation there of is nigh”, this is related to our last caller. Here, Christ is foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem and He also talks about that in “Matthew 24”, He words it differently, in “Matthew 24’ 15”, Jesus said, “When you therefor see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place, let him who reads understand, let those that be in Judaea flee into the mountains, don’t even take anything out of your house”. Now, what God’s people went through, prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, is going to be repeated again, immediately before the 2nd coming and it’s going to be a lot of the same circumstances. And you’re right, there is going to be laws that will actually impinge on God’s people, telling them how to worship, when the beast power begins to make laws telling us who and how to worship, that’s going to be a signal that it’s beyond the time for us to witness, soon after that, the plagues will fall and we’re just going to have to head for the hills, so to speak.

Sy: And my quick, I have a quick testimony. I had called in a couple of week ago and, you know, about my job situation and I’ve been (inaudible 41:36), I told the guy that I work for that I have to leave because I have to worship and serve God the way that He want me to. So I stepped out in faith and I’m watching to see that, you know, for the Lord God to move now. So I’m just asking you guys, I mean, you pray for me and my family and I know there’s going to come a time whether we all going to have to make this decision in the last day, where we have to leave our houses, leave our jobs, you know, if you want to follow God, so this is just a small little something of what’s coming, you know, at the very, very end of time. So I’m just asking that you guys just to pray for me, keep me and my family in prayer.

Pastor Doug: We will. Matter a fact we’ll pray for you right now, if that’d be okay. Lord we just want to ask that you be with Sy and he’s taking a step of faith in order to worship you, it’s meant, sacrificing his job, we pray that you’ll show yourself faithful and that you’ll work a miracle in his behalf, Provide for him and help him, to know how to cooperate in seeking, that he might find, where you want him to be. We pray in Christ name, amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Amen. You know, we got that promising scripture, where it’s written, “I’ve never seen

Pastor Doug: the righteous.

Pastor Jëan Ross: the righteous forsaken all their seed, begging for bread”, it promises to provide for those who are faithful to Him. We have Loretta who is listening from Savannah Tennessee. Loretta, welcome to the program.

Loretta: Yes, thanks again Pastors. Can you help me? The story of Naaman the Leper,

Pastor Doug: Yes, “2nd Kings, chapter 5”.

Loretta: When he got killed, (inaudible 43:04) sorry, when he got cured from his leprosy, he offered to give

Pastor Doug: Money.

Loretta: Gifts.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, he offered to pay Elijah for the healing.

Loretta: And he refused to take it.

Pastor Doug: Right.

Loretta: Now, right after that particular conversation, but before the Hazai goes to try to get some of the gifts, there is an exchange there, and I didn’t quite understand what they were talking about.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Well, Naaman I basically saying, you know, “I’m not going to worship anyone but the God of Israel now, but please forgive your servant”, and I think he said, “I’m going to take a couple of mule burdens worth of dirt home, so I can pray on the land of Israel”. It was the, you know, this is holy ground, I’m taking some of it home with me

Loretta: He’s actually taking dirt?

Pastor Doug: He did, he took a couple of, you know, they filled a couple of potato bags full of dirt and he took it home, and he knelt down to pray, he was going to kneel on the land of Israel

Loretta: Okay

Pastor Doug: because he believed it was the true God. But then he said, “Please forgive me”, in other words, “I know how you feel, I know what the Jewish belief is”, Naaman is well acquainted with Israel’s belief because they were neighbours and they were probably in battle together for years, they knew each other’s customs, they knew the Israelites did not practice any form of Idolatry, but Naaman was a general for an aging king, his king was an older man and the king counted on the general when he went to public worship because it was like his military guard, he actually leaned on his hand as he walked because he was an old man. And so, Naaman said, “Look, I got a, the king leans of me when he goes in to worship in his god, please forgive me when I accompany him”, and Elijah said, “Go in peace, you’re not worshipping that God, you’re just trying to show a respect for your master. So that was an interesting exchange and, you know Naaman

Loretta: Yeah, I couldn’t understand what going on.

Pastor Doug: had come so far, Elijah wasn’t going to make it any harder on him. Isn’t that your understanding?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you also get a sense of compassion, in the responds that the prophet gives, here is a man who is definitely going back and his home country is just surrounded with idles, and yet now, he’s going to worship the true God, I’m sure he face a opposition from people, maybe even family. And so, the prophet recognizes the challenges that’s ahead of him, wasn’t going to add any additional burden to what he was doing.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it would have been pretty tough for him to come back and say, “Hey, I’ve been to Israel, I’ve been healed, and by the way, I’m not worshipping your gods anymore”

Pastor Jëan Ross: I’m not going to help the king.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. So that could have seemed like treason and I think Elijah understood that. But the good question, under normal circumstances, I think that he would have said, “Yeah, you need to start worshipping a different God now” but it probably would have been seen as treason. Thank you Loretta, appreciate your question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Bruce who is listening from Bismarck North Dakota. Bruce, welcome to the program.

Bruce: Well good evening, thank you for having me on. I have a question but I’d like to maybe extend it into a 2 part question that’s kind of unrelated.

Pastor Doug: Let’s start with part 1.

Bruce: (Laughing) Okay. Part one. There are miracles that take place today, I hear of miracles that take place in several parts of the world, mainly, it seems like third world nations and I believe the new verses, you know, one of the greatest miracles, if not, the greatest miracle that we have today but I’m wondering, are there miracles that are taking place today, mainly in third world countries, which I hear reports of all the time?

Pastor Doug: Well, first of all. Yes, I believe in miracles. I do believe miracles come in waves through history, with the moving of God’s Spirit and I always like to point to the story of Gideon, when an angel appeared to him, Gideon’s asking the angel, “What happened to all the miracles we used to hear about?” He evidently, was living during a low tide of the miracles

Bruce: I see.

Pastor Doug: And then God (inaudible 47:15) from that time and then there was times where there seems to be silence but God’s power moves, of course, as you said, “God’s Spirit is always working miracles”, there’s always conversions, life is a miracle, there are miracles of God’s providence intervening in people’s lives. I’ve had miracles in my life on that level. I’ve never had

Bruce: Of course.

Pastor Doug: where, you know, I’m missing an arm or leg and its popped back into place or anything but

Bruce: Right.

Pastor Doug: there will be more power of miracles in the last days, and Jesus tells us in places where there is more faith and more need, God’s Spirit seems to work more. So in some of the pagan countries, were there is, you know, some of the bigger battles with demonic spirits and they have more of simple faith, I think you see more evidence of incredible things.

Bruce: And that leads me to my 2nd part of my question.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Bruce: Can you distinguish for us, between evil spirits, demons, and fallen angels?

Pastor Doug: Well, I’ll do my best, I think their all the same.

Bruce: (Laughing) Okay.

Pastor Doug: The, you know, the bible tells us, you know, sometimes you might call them ghosts and goblins to. These fallen angels masquerade as, you know, ghost in departed people, sometimes to scare and intimidate, and give bad advice; they are sometimes called evil spirits, they are sometimes called demons, those are really different words for the same thing, it’s like talking about the devil and talking about Satan, well it’s one in the same. And so these fallen angels are referred to as devils, evil spirits, demons, their just the evil minions of Lucifer and I think their all one and the same.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Because the bible tells us that, “Satan can transform himself into an angel of light”, and so, I’m sure his angels can do the same thing, they can masquerade as a dead loved one or appear in one form or another.

Pastor Doug: Absolutely. I’m just trying to think, we don’t really have a book on that do we? Wait, we have that book on

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got the study guide

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: dealing with, “Did God Create the Devil”

Pastor Doug: Exactly, that’s what I was thinking.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Goes into that. For anyone wanting to learn more about that, give us a call on our resource line. The number is 1-800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide, “Did God Create the Devil”, we’ll be happy to send that to you. By the way Pastor Doug, this study guide, as you very well know, is one in a series of study guides that we have dealing with important bible truths, even some of the prophecies of scripture, and anyone calling can actually ask to enrol for free in the “Amazing Facts Bible School Course”. The number is 1-800-835-6747. We have Nathaniel who is listening from Washington. Nathaniel, welcome to the program.

Nathaniel: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Evening

Nathaniel: Good evening.

Pastor Doug: And your question?

Nathaniel: Yeah, my question is “1st John 3, 4”. It says “Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law; for sin is the transgression of the law” now, I guess I’ve always look at it as, you know, transgression of the law is what sin is but then the first part of that verse, is a little confusing, when it says, “Whoever commits sin also transgresses law”.

Pastor Doug: in other words, every sin you can think of will somehow fall under one of the Ten Commandments in the Decalogue. You can’t name a sin that the Ten Commandments God gave or so brought on comprehensive, that just about any sin you can name, you’re transgressing the law. It will fall under one of those, first of all, you know, God is love, so all sin falls under either you’re violating the commandment to love your neighbour or you’re violating a commandment to love God. First four commandments deal with love for God whether it’s, you know, idolatry or in your speech, you’re using his name in vain. The last six commandments deal with love for your fellow men from honouring your parents to do not covet. So I think He’s just saying, basically anything you can call sin really is transgressing the law for sin is the transgression of the law.

Nathaniel: Okay.

Pastor Doug: You know, we have a study guide we’ll send you, on that. That talks about the love of God and this whole principle but, do have a 2nd part of that?

Nathaniel: Well yeah, I guess because I’ve heard another pastor kind of explain it to, similar, little differently I guess with a little twist on it that. He was talking about our relationship with God and once our relationship with God drifts, that’s when we fall into

Pastor Doug: Sin

Nathaniel: transgressing the law

Pastor Doug: Well, it is true that the better we love God, the better we obey Him, the more we love our neighbour, the more that we’ll serve. We’re less inclined to break those commandments when we love but, you know, so, you know, we want to keep the relationship strong and that’s why Paul says, “Love is the fulfilling of the law” but we certainly need to recognize when we’re sinning and breaking the law, that its usually indicates there’s a relationship problem. Can we do 1 more question? By the way, that lesson is “Written in Stone”.

Pastor Jëan Ross: “Written in Stone”, call our resource number, 800-8356747, you can ask for the study guide, “Written in Stone”, talking about God’s law. Let’s see, we have time for 1 more, let’s go to John in Indiana. John, welcome to the program. John in Indiana?

John: Hi, how you doing?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, you’re on the air.

John: Yes. I’ve gone to many churches and I’ve talked to a lot of people and in this discussion, I found that some people place prophets outside the bible, in (inaudible 53:17) importance, and my question to you is, should, as a Christian, should you be concerned with people who are considered prophets, modern day prophets, outside the bible? Be a Christian or should we just simply focus on the bible itself?

Pastor Doug: Good question. What do you do, when someone says in modern times, “Their a prophet”? Well, 1st of all, we’re naturally suspicious and probably should be because there’s more false prophets then true ones. Jesus didn’t tell us in the last days, “If anyone says there a prophet, don’t believe it”, He said, “Beware of false prophets because one of the gifts of the spirit is prophecy”, and all through history, whenever God does anything significant, He often raises up a prophet to speak through. And so, we want to be careful to prove all things, you know, to be willing to listen if God is speaking through an individual, but I would be suspicious and there’s bible tests that we can apply to see if someone is a genuine prophet or if they have that gift of prophecy but, you know, all through history, God has spoken, and it doesn’t mean every prophet, everything they say is suddenly part of scripture. You know, God can speak through an angel, He can speak through a dream, a vision, He can speak through prophets. Since those are gifts of the Spirit, we believe that those gifts still exist.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we do have a study guide dealing with this important subject, it’s called, “Does God Inspire Astrologers and Psychics?” John, if you can our resource line, 1-800-835-6747, ask for tat study guide, “Does God Inspire Astrologers and Psychics?” and in the study guide, we actually list criteria, biblical criteria, for determining whether someone genuinely has the gift of prophecy or whether they are false prophet.

Pastor Doug: Right. And I know your probably driving down the road John. So if you can just remember that, “Does God Inspire Psychics and Prophets and, or Astrologers and Prophets” and we’ll send that to you. Listening friends, I could see the music was going to chase us away but don’t change the dial yet, we want to be friends, if you’re really our friend, go to our website and contact us, let us know your listening, we love to hear from you. And, you know, we’re completely faith based and people like you want to keep us on the air, if you could do something to help us stay on the air, we are very grateful. God bless, we’ll study together again next week.

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