From Mess Sergeant to President

Date: 06/11/2006 
In September 1862, Confederate General, Robert E. Lee, made his greatest effort to carry the Civil War into the North. This climaxed with the Battle of Antietam...
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? In September 1862, Confederate General, Robert E. Lee, made his greatest effort to carry the Civil War into the North. This climaxed with the Battle of Antietam, which became the bloodiest and perhaps the most decisive battle in the War Between the States.

Some historians believe the outcome of that battle may have been influenced by a humble mess sergeant. One day when the fighting at Antietam was the hottest, a Union Commander, Colonel Hayes, ordered his exhausted men back to the firing line before sunset without breakfast.

It was crucial that they prevent the advance of the Confederate Army from crossing into the North. A young mess sergeant, known as Billy, took pity on the hungry men and without consulting his superior officers, he rounded up all the available beef and bread, made thick sandwiches, and then passed them out to the hungry soldiers as they stood at their gun posts.

The famished soldiers, surprised and grateful for the food, set up a loud cheer for Billy. They wolfed down the food and then turned back to the fight with a renewed strength. When the fighting ended, the course of the American Civil War had been greatly altered. When Colonel Hayes learned what Billy had done for his men, he immediately promoted the sergeant to the rank of a Lieutenant, right on the field.

The Colonel who promoted Bill was Colonel Rutherford B. Hayes, who became the 19th President of the United States. And Billy, the mess sergeant, was William McKinley, who became our 25th President.

Jesus said, "He who is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much." Luke 16:10. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Welcome once again listening friends to a fresh edition of Bible Answers Live. If you have tuned in for the first time, we welcome you. We'd like to encourage you to keep your dial where it is. This is a live, international, interactive Bible study. And you can listen in as we explore the Word of God together.

You can call in with your Bible questions. It's a toll-free number in North America, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That translates to 1-800-463-7297. It's a good time now to pick up your phone and make that call. We have a number of lines open. And also, be praying for us as we go through the program. Tonight, Pastor Jëan Ross is again across the country preaching the Gospel; and I am, with our team here, going to be manning the phones.

So let's begin with a word of prayer right now. Loving Lord, thank You for, again, this privileged opportunity, a day of life, to know You better and to share You better. And Lord, we would pray that Your Spirit will take possession of this program, of each call that comes in, and the nature of the questions; that You would maximize the influence for good and for Your kingdom. And we ask, Lord, that all that happens here will bring glory to Your name and comfort to Your people. In His name we pray, amen.

Well friends, you probably thought, as I did, that's a fascinating story from the Civil War. These two men who are faithful in holding their lines and doing their best in small things achieved greatness, becoming, both of them--Colonel Hays and William McKinley--presidents of the United States.

You know, the Bible teaches that if we have enough faith to come to Christ, we should also have enough faith to walk with Christ. And yet, there are a lot of people out there who think that all you need is enough faith to come to Christ and once you accept Him, it doesn't matter whether you walk with Him or not; once you're saved, you can't be lost. But does the Bible really teach that?

I would represent, and present, that the Scriptures do not teach that. The Scriptures teach that it is possible for someone who has accepted the Lord to have the freedom to turn away. You can read in the book 2nd Peter chapter 2 where he talks about the pig who is washed will return to wallow in the mire; and a dog can return to the very thing that made it sick and consume it again.

In Ezekiel it tells us in chapter 18, verse 24, "If a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die."

And in the New Testament Paul says in Hebrews 10, verse 23, "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering;" once we accept the Lord, we have to hold fast, meaning it's possible to let go, "for he is faithful that promised. Let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works."

And then in verse 26, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin." Many places in the Bible explain that it's one thing to come to the Lord; it's another thing to hold fast and to walk with the Lord. A lot of people have questions. There's a lot of confusion about can a saved man choose to be lost.

Do we lose our freedom once we accept the Lord? We have a free offer. I don't think we've offered this in years. And the book has been produced in a new edition. "Can a Saved Man Choose to be Lost?" by Joe Crews. If you'd like a free copy of this, all you've got to do is pick up the phone and call and we'll send it to you.

It's a great study everybody ought to have because this is a subject that Christians from many different persuasions have struggled with. If you would like to find out more about what the Bible says, "Can a Saved Man Choose to be Lost?", then call our resource number, which is 1-800-835-6747, and they'll be happy to send that to you.

We'd like to welcome some new stations. This is always a very exciting part as the Lord blesses and we expand the influence of this program. Oh, by the way, I want to send my greeting to our friends in Albuquerque. I was there as recently as this morning and was listening to one of our stations there on the radio and did an interview with KSBY; and it's encouraging to have Life Talk Radio there in Albuquerque.

We'd like to welcome KWRD, a new station that is broadcasting to our listeners in Dallas, Texas; that's 100.7 FM, KWRD. If anyone from that broadcast is listening tonight, we'd love to hear from you. And we also have in Portland, Oregon two sister stations: KPDQ, that's 800 AM, as well as 93.9 FM, KPDQ in Portland, Oregon.

They also air our Millennium of Prophecy program on their radio stations Sundays at 1:30 pm for a half an hour. So we'd love to hear from those stations, and we welcome you.

In addition, we always like to begin with an Internet question before we go to the phones. I've got a question here, and it says, "If God created everything and everything was pronounced good, then where did stinging bees and predator animals come from, if there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned?"

That's a good question. I think the answer would be that, originally, all of the animals had another purpose and another diet. Bees did not sting. A gorilla has great big canine teeth, but they're vegetarians. Lions have the same enormous teeth. Matter of fact, the lions aren't even as big as the mountain gorilla; and I know it says in the Bible, in Isaiah, that the lion will eat straw like the ox in the New Earth.

And so it's safe to assume that these predatory animals did not hurt or destroy. It says, "They will not hurt or destroy in all of my holy mountain," in Isaiah chapter 65. So they were harmless then; and sin brought in a corruption. Things changed and there has been a great perversion in God's original plan.

Our next question is, "What do you think about the Judas book? Is there any fact to it, that it's real? Or do you think it has been aged to make everyone think it's real?" Well there is a very old, apocryphal, Gnostic gospel, supposedly attributed to Judas. It was rejected when it first appeared 1,800 years ago.

And so if people weren't confused by this, it would almost be amusing that folks are touting it again as some great discovery; but it was considered a fraudulent book in 1,800 years ago. There's no reference to it in any of the other Gospel writings.

One of the reason the Bible is assembled the way it is is because there is a corresponding endorsement. Jesus, for instance, endorses a number of the Old Testament prophets by name. In Matthew 24, He said, "...spoken of by Daniel the prophet." Paul talks about the faithfulness of the writings of others; and Jude endorses Peter and Paul.

And Peter talks about the writings of Paul. So there's a cross-endorsement. None of them ever make any reference to a book by Judas. And how could Judas write a book if he committed suicide the night of the betrayal? So the whole thing is extremely dubious and I wouldn't even give it a second thought, because it's almost comical the logic behind giving credibility to that gospel.

Of course, you know, people who aren't acquainted with the Bible, they hear something like that and folks that are uneducated in the Scriptures think that it's a great discovery. Well, we are going to go to the phones now; and so why don't we start with Brett who has been listening in Columbia, South Carolina, on WBAJ. I was just in North Carolina about a week ago. Brett, welcome to the program.

Brett: Hi, thank you. Yeah, I know, I meant to get up there to see you and I was not able to [chuckles].

Pastor Doug: Well you got me now,

Brett: Yeah

Pastor Doug: and what's your question tonight?

Brett: Alright. My question is this. Christ had prophesied about the temple being destroyed when He was speaking with His apostles; and how the temple of the Jews...not one stone would stand on top of another. And from what I have been told, this happened, uh, like, 40 years after Christ had died and risen and gone into heaven. And my question is, did this happen before or after the Gospels were written? Was this something that took place before the Gospels were written by Christ's disciples, or was this done afterward?

Pastor Doug: Well, it was very close. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke were written before 70 A.D. The Gospel of John was written afterward. So Paul and Peter may have lived to see the destruction of Jerusalem. I think, actually, they died just prior to that; but John certainly did. And that was in 70 A.D., forty years after Christ said it.

And it's interesting, Jesus said, "This generation will not pass away," and a generation is forty years. Christ made that prediction about 30 A.D. and it happens in 70, forty years later.

Brett: Right. Okay, that makes perfect sense to me. The question was put to me and so I thought I'd call and ask. I have a friend who's very skeptical about the Bible and I'm introducing prophecy to him and different things.

Pastor Doug: You can probably find online--you heard me hesitate a little bit because the chronology of when the different books were written. Of course, not even all the scholars agree on the exact dates because they're not dated like a term paper.

But the approximate dates when they were written, based on things that are mentioned in the books--Mark is the first Gospel, probably written 20 years after Christ, which would place that at about somewhere between 45 and 50 A.D. But you can find a lot of the commentaries' and the historians' and scholars' dating of the various Gospels online; but everyone has agreed John wrote his in, maybe even 90 A.D.--

Brett: Right

Pastor Doug: --and wrote Revelation and his letter shortly after.

Brett: Right, right. I'm mentioning all these different prophecies to my friend and he's basically saying, 'Well, you know, this stuff had to have happened before. There's no way that'--

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well you know what I would talk to your friend about? He can argue that, but he cannot argue the prophecies from the Old Testament that point to Jesus as the Messiah, because we know the Dead Sea Scrolls were written before Jesus was born.

Brett: Right

Pastor Doug: And those Old Testament prophecies, in extremely minute detail, talk about the life and ministry of Jesus, even mentioning Psalm 22, the nail prints in His hands, and His side being pierced, and gambling for His clothing, and being sold for 30 pieces of silver. Zechariah says it. And nobody disagrees among the scholars that the Dead Sea Scrolls were written before the time of Christ.

So how your friend can wiggle out of Jesus being Who the prophecy said, that's pretty compelling evidence.

Brett: Right, right. And you are right about that. And I just really appreciate you listening to me tonight; and I, of course, I believe everything that you believe and the way that you believe it. So I will take this information and I will certainly pass it on.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you very much Brett. God bless you. Next we're going to go to, let me see here, talking with Josine in Rocklin, California, and listening right here on our mother station, KFIA. Welcome, Josine. Am I saying that right?

Josine: Yes, thank you.

Pastor Doug: And your question?

Josine: From your study, have you come to whether or not the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 14:1 is a literal or a figurative number? And if you have concluded, what is your conclusion and why?

Pastor Doug: Good question. Before I even answer, if you would like, I've written a book on it, and it's called, "Who are the 144,000?" I'll send you a free copy of that tonight if you call the resource number when we're done.

Josine: Okay

Pastor Doug: But very quickly, I believe that it is a literal number. And the reason is, the dates that are given in Revelation all have a real, numerical value. In other words, do we really believe there are 12 gates in the New Jerusalem? Well I've never heard anyone argue that. Most people say yes. Do we really believe it has 12 foundations? Do we really think the tree of life has 12 different kinds of fruit 12 times a year? Most people I talk to say yes.

Did Jesus really have 12 apostles? Even though they weren't from different tribes, He kept the number 12 because it is a Biblical number. Well that number must have meant something. And on the day of Pentecost before the Holy Spirit was poured out, they had to replace Judas. As soon as they replaced Judas, the Holy Spirit was poured out. So, in the last days, the 144,000 are the equivalent of 12 times 12,000 apostles.

Josine: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: See, Jesus trained 12 apostles to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In the last days before He comes, the Gospel goes to the whole world, He's going to have 12 times 12,000. And so that's who they are. Will they be going around with a marathon number on their back telling which one they are? Probably not, but God knows who they are. But I do think it is a literal number and when we get to heaven, we'll know who it was.

Josine: Thank you very much, because that was my conclusion. I just wanted to hear from you what thought.

Pastor Doug: Oh praise the Lord--

Josine: Thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: And let me give you the number. If you'd like a free copy of that book, "Who are the 144,000?" that number is 1-800-835-6747 and we'll send that to you Josine. Next, we're going to be talking to...oh see, I'm always a little slower when I've got the phones myself, talking to Robert in Soldotna, Alaska, listening on the Internet. Welcome Robert.

Robert: Good evening Doug. My question is what is the correlation between a saving relationship with Jesus and Bible doctrine? And what I mean by that is, if somebody who you know loves the Lord and follows with all his heart, but when you show him a Bible doctrine, say like the Sabbath as an example, and they reject it, are they lost?

Pastor Doug: Oh I wouldn't say that. First of all, only God knows that. There are people who know the truth about various doctrines that are lost. The devil knows more about the doctrines than, probably, any mortal. The Bible says, "the devils believe and tremble," but they're lost. So it's not knowing any doctrine, per se, that saves us. Ultimately, we're saved by knowing the Lord.

Now, if we reject truth that we know to be truth--it doesn't matter whether it's the Sabbath truth or some aspect of the Gospel--if we're rejecting truth, and Jesus said, "the truth will set you free," and Jesus is the truth, that's a serious thing because that represents rebellion.

And some people have had truth presented to them; and because of their background or because it's presented poorly, the Lord is not even going to hold them accountable for it because they just weren't capable of comprehending it, or it was presented poorly. So God knows whether something has really registered with a person and they're rebelling; or they just don't understand, see what I'm saying?

Robert: Yeah, [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: So God looks on the heart and He understands that. But Jesus said, If you know these things happy are ye if you do them. If we sin willfully--and sin is the transgression of God's law--Hebrews 10:26 says, "If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth," when we know what the truth is and we understand it and we deliberately, willfully turn away from that, that's when we're very culpable.

Robert: Okay. That makes sense. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Alright, good question Robert, appreciate it. Now we're going to talk with Tony in Holden, Texas, listening on the Internet. Welcome Tony.

Tony: Hi. Yes, I've got a question about the people that came out of Egypt but did not enter the promised land?

Pastor Doug: Okay

Tony: My understanding is that over the age of 20 they died out in the wilderness.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Tony: Okay. Are these people excluded from heaven?

Pastor Doug: No. You know how I know that?

Tony: No sir.

Pastor Doug: Because Moses was one of them; and he appears in heaven. Moses died before they made it to the promised land, didn't he? Because he sinned. So even though he died because of his sin, he repented of his sin, Moses was seen by the apostles Peter, James and John in Mark chapter 9 on the Mount of Transfiguration.

So obviously, even though he did not get to physically enter into the promised land or lead the people in, he will be in the kingdom because he repented of his sin. There were many others who lost faith in the wilderness and then they repented of their sin. They may have died of old age or natural causes, and God is going to save them.

There were others who rebelled that died in their sin that were lost. For instance, ten of the spies in Numbers chapter 13 that came back to discourage the people, they were stricken immediately. Nadab and Abihu and the sons of Aaron, they died under the judgment of God and they're not going to be in heaven.

But it would be very tragic if we were to assume that that whole generation was automatically lost because they didn't live long enough to get to the promised land. So I believe many of them are saved, just like Moses was one of them, and Aaron, and Miriam, they all died in the wilderness. Are you still there Tony?

Tony: They didn't believe the report though. I mean, they were in favor of going ahead and going in, weren't they? Talking about the ones that didn't sin, that [cross talk, unintelligible] wasn't able to do what he said he could do.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well there may have been some who did not believe the report that later repented of their lack of faith. There was a whole spectrum of failures in the wilderness among the people of God. Moses' losing his temper was just the one example given of where he lost faith; but some of them lost faith when they ran out of water. When they ran out of bread, they got tired of eating the bread and they wanted something else.

And there's a whole series of failures in the wilderness; and we need to be careful not to assume that they're all lost because if you read in 1st Corinthians 10, Paul said what happened to them is an example to what happens to us. The church makes a lot of the same mistakes. And if everybody that gets discouraged in the wilderness is lost, we're all in trouble.

Tony: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Know what I'm saying?

Tony: Yes sir.

Pastor Doug: So the wilderness is like sanctification. That's where we learn to trust God.

Tony: Okay. If you don't mind, I just have one quick question about praying. Is there anything pagan about holding hands with others or, you know, when you pray alone? Why do we always hold our hands and--[cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well there's no Bible mandate to even pray with your eyes closed, but there's nothing wrong with it; and holding your hands, these things are cultural. As long as there's no Bible command forbidding something, we must not assume that it's bad. I've seen people pray holding hands. I've seen people pray while they're hugging each other with their arms around somebody.

You can pray in many different postures. Peter prayed while he was swimming, you know what I'm saying?

Tony: Okay. Alright [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Okay, I hope that helps a little bit Tony.

Tony: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Thank you for your question. Alright, now we're going to talk to Joseph in New York, New York, listening on WMCA. Welcome to the program Joseph.

Joseph: Hello Pastor. Pastor, what I'd like to know is should a Christian join a secret society? There are a couple around today that are pretty popular.

Pastor Doug: Well, that's a good question. And I would think that you would probably run into a conflict of interest if you're a Christian and you've got to take some kind of vows that are secret; because Christianity is the opposite of the secret society, in that you are to let your light shine. It is not a secret.

The whole thing about the Gospel is to give "good news." And what a secret society would offer a Christian that Christ does not offer I would wonder about. So I would think that there could be a moral dilemma for a Christian who wants to join some secret society.

Joseph: Is taking an oath wrong?

Pastor Doug: No. If you're taking an oath when you're giving testimony--

Joseph: No, I mean in joining a secret society.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, because usually, those oaths are vowing some form of allegiance to an earthly organization that is a conflict, in many cases, with your oath to Christ.

Joseph: Hm

Pastor Doug: Does that help a little Joseph?

Joseph: Yes it does. I, well actually, I was pertaining--I read about one where blood oaths are required.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well that ought to make you suspect right there because a Christian, he basically has a blood oath under the blood of Christ. And any other blood oath would probably be a conflict, in that you would question, "Why would a Christian claim any other blood oath, than the blood of Christ in a secret society?"

Joseph: Yes, that sounds right. That sounds right Pastor.

Pastor Doug: So I would recommend that Christians stay away from those things. Listening friends, we're going to take a break in just a moment. But before we do, I've got a couple of exciting things to share with you.

Some of you, maybe, have heard on earlier broadcasts that we did a series of interviews with National Geographic. And they have edited those programs and it is going to be released in July, on July 16th and the 22nd. I think it's going to be airing twice each day at 9 pm; and I think it's 12 pm. You can find it at the National Geographic website.

This is National Geographic Television; and it's called, The Secrets of Revelation. National Geographic interviewed a number of religious leaders ranging from the Vatican to some of the mainline and charismatic leaders in North America, and yours truly. So you may want to see that. We haven't seen the program yet.

They're being very secretive about releasing it prior to it's premier; but if you want to see that program, The Secrets of Revelation, that will be July 16th and the 22nd. You'll find more about your local airing times on their website at National Geographic Television.

I also want to remind you, if you would like to participate in a national satellite program Amazing Facts is going to have dealing with Bible prophecy, that is going to be the Most Amazing Prophecies. It's going to be ten presentations that will be from the campus of Andrews University from September 15 to the 23rd; and anyone who receives either 3ABN or Hope Television can participate in that program.

You can invite your friends to your church if you have any satellite reception there, or to your home and study the Word of God. If you'd like more information on that, you can go to, or you can type in and there's more information there.

And one more thing before we go to our break, even though the Da Vinci Code movie has been released, I understand it is still breaking records, not only in North America, but overseas as well; and it is really undermining the faith of many. We have a book that has been especially printed for that and it's, The Truth About Mary Magdalene, and it is already a best-seller.

If you'd like to find out more about how to get these copies for sharing, go to the website that's called You can find out how to order these and share it with people that want to know more about the truth about Mary Magdalene, her relationship with Jesus. And the sad thing is, because they're besmirching the purity of Christ, they're also distorting the wonderful things that we learn from Jesus' most devoted disciple, which is Mary Magdalene.

And, of course, we've got the Amazing Facts website that has a tree of life of information. Well in just a moment, we'll be back with more Bible questions. Continue to keep us in your prayers. And tell your friends to call up, and we'll be back with the second half of the broadcast in just a moment.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back, listening friends. And for our friends that have just tuned in this is Bible Answers Live, an international, interactive Bible study. If you have any Bible

questions, we have some lines open, give us a call. The number is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297.

My name is Doug Batchelor. Pastor Jëan Ross is our of town preaching in another um, he might even be in another country. I forget where Pastor Jëan is now. He's just out and about. But if you have a Bible question, there are lines open. 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. We're going to go right back to the phones and going to be talking next to Ron, who has been waiting patiently in Courtsville, California. Welcome to the program Ron.

Ron: Yeah, hi Doug. Our church is currently--we're going through the book of Genesis verse by verse.

Pastor Doug: Uh huh

Ron: And last Sunday, our pastor was going in chapter 10 about the line of Ham. And he talked about Nimrod.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Ron: And he went in a little bit deep detail and expanded on Nimrod and his wife and how paganism and how it relates to Christmas and all this stuff. And so I got really intrigued, and I got this book called, The Two Babylons, by Hislop--

Pastor Doug: Hislop, yes.

Ron: Right. And the more I read it, I--here's my question, and I don't know if you heard of that book I obviously have.

Pastor Doug: Oh yes, The Two Babylons by Dr. Hislop, yeah.

Ron: Right, and so--

Pastor Doug: It's a classic.

Ron: Yeah. And I read the book, and so my question is, why in the world do Christians celebrate Christmas and Easter, when these are totally pagan that come from that? I mean, I have a problem with that. Maybe I'm over exaggerating. Maybe you can help me with that?

Pastor Doug: Well it's a good question. Matter of fact, Amazing Facts has a booklet we offer called, Baptized Paganism. There are a number of things in our culture; if you've read Hislop's book, you'd know.

Ron: Yes

Pastor Doug: I don't agree with everything in there, so I should probably preface my statements by saying that. But there's no question that the modern date for Christmas,--

Ron: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --and some of the trappings that you find connected with Easter, have pagan roots. Now it is true that Christ died and rose during the time of Passover. At least that's the same time of year as Easter; but Jesus was probably born in September, based on His baptism and when He died.

So, how involved should a Christian be? Well that's one of those cases where everyone sort of needs to--as Roman's 14 says, "If a man is going to keep a day, keep it to the Lord." Don't keep it to the bunny, or the Santa Claus; and use it as an opportunity to witness. Some Christians, if they can't feel faithful, or their conscience convicts them about giving any kind of acknowledgment to those days, they shouldn't.

The Bible says, "Anything that is not of faith is sin." And so different Christians interpret where they should stand because it is such a--obviously, Christmas, maybe even more so than Easter, is such a cultural tradition, though it does have pagan roots. Someone might ask the question, "Well, can you become all things to all men, that you might reach some for Christ?" And it may be possible to capitalize on those holidays to witness.

So, Easter is easier for me to deal with because you can quickly delete the Easter bunnies and the chicks and all that and focus on the Resurrection. That, at least, is Biblical. Christmas has become quite a materialistic--you know, purchasing, people going into debt. And yet, I love the Christmas music and there are the songs about the birth of Christ. Many of them have tremendous theology that is very Biblical. It's just the time of year is wrong. See what I'm saying?

Ron: Yeah, right.

Pastor Doug: So it is a complex issue. And everyone sort of needs to study that out for themselves. I recommend that's a place where you apply Romans 14. And again, if you'd like a copy of our book, Baptized Paganism, we'll send you that.

Ron: Okay Doug, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Alright Ron. Yeah, call the resource number and ask for, if you'd like it, the book, Baptized Paganism, by Joe Crews. Okay, who's been waiting the longest here? I think we're going to talk to Irene, who has called from Santa Rosa, California, listening on KNDF. Welcome Irene.

Irene: Oh hi, hi Doug.

Pastor Doug: Hi

Irene: My question is that when the angel came to Mary and told her she would be conceived with a child. And I want to know did the angel come in the time of December? I'm just pulling on December. I like that month of December and I was wondering if that's the time he came to her? [Transcribed verbatim.]

Pastor Doug: Well it's interesting your question would follow on the heels--I'm getting two questions in June about Christmas--but you're question is following on the heels of this other question where we just stated Christ was, probably, born in September, not December. And if the angel announced to her nine months earlier, and September is the ninth month, yeah it's possible that the angel did come in December.

Irene: I was thinking--[cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Or January.

Irene: The beginning of December, like December the 8th, right in the beginning of December.

Pastor Doug: Well we don't know what the--I wouldn't pin a date on it because we don't know what the date is Jesus was born and--

Irene: Not the day He was born, the day He was conceived.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well there's no date given. Nothing in the Bible would tell us the exact date. Anything we might say about that is total speculation.

Irene: Oh

Pastor Doug: It's guessing.

Irene: Okay

Pastor Doug: Yeah, but there's no information in the Bible that I know of that you can pinpoint the date when the angel appeared to Mary. All we can be fairly certain of--now follow my logic here. We know Jesus preached three and a half years.

Irene: Okay

Pastor Doug: We know that He died in the spring, Passover.

Irene: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: We know that He was baptized three and a half years earlier. So if you count back three and a half years from the spring of A.D. 31, you get roughly the fall, September, October of A.D. 27 is when His birthday was; because it says in Luke chapter 3 He was baptized as He began to be 30 years of age. On His 30th birthday He began His ministry.

So we don't know exactly what date that was because it was a lunar calendar and it fell on different times of the year, or different dates, based on where the moon was from year to year. So people could probably make some calculated guesses and get pretty close within a week; but I would never start advertising a specific date.

And then the thing about pregnancy is, women are kind of funny that way. Sometimes the apple drops early and sometimes it hangs on the tree a little longer than you think.

Irene: Yeah

Pastor Doug: And so, to pick the date when the angel appeared to Mary would be really tough to do.

Irene: Okay

Pastor Doug: But good question. I appreciate that. Who's next here? We're going to talk to Mary who has been listening on satellite, Colona, British Columbia. I've been there. Welcome Mary, you're on the program. Your question?

Mary: Yes. When Jesus died on the cross, the veil in the temple was torn from the top to the bottom. So I'd like to know why, today, in the heavenly sanctuary, why is there still a veil between the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place?

Pastor Doug: Well when the veil tore on earth, there were several things that were signified by that. First of all, at the trial of Christ, the high priest tore his robes. And then when Jesus died, the temple veil was torn. The tearing of the robes and the tearing of the temple veil signified a new priesthood and a new temple.

The new priesthood is every member, every believer becomes a nation of priests, as it tells us in 1st Peter chapter 2, verse 9. And the new temple is, "What? know ye not that you are the temple of God?" The church is the temple. We are living stones. So your question about the veil in heaven, keep in mind, the veil on earth was a miniature symbol of what's in heaven.

The veil on earth they were told to weave, embroider angels into this curtain and they were to tap the engravings of angels on the golden walls. That's because the earthly temple was sort of a miniature model of this very real, heavenly dwelling place of God; for God isn't surrounded with golden walls with angels engraved. He is surrounded with real walls of moving, living angels.

The veil in heaven is not a piece of wool from the sheep or linen that is suspended from some curtain rod. But I believe it's a living veil of angels, just like they had them engraved. It's just the angels surround God. As you see in Isaiah chapter 6, the angels that are flanking the Lord saying, "Holy, Holy, Holy," these are the ministering spirits of God that are 10,000 times 10,000.

So, you know, we have a lesson that specifically deals with the sanctuary. If you would like the Amazing Facts study guide called, God Drew the Plans, it talks about both the earthly and the heavenly temple, we'll send you a free copy Mary. And that number is 1-800-835-6747. I want to try and get a few more calls because I talked too much the first half.

Alright, who's next here? We're going to go to Belva who's listening from Maupin, Oregon. Did I say that right?

Belva: Yup, Maupin.

Pastor Doug: On the satellite. And your question?

Belva: I had a guy ask--we were talking about what Satan could do and what he couldn't do and stuff. And I told him that Satan couldn't hear our thoughts. He could put thoughts in our head, but he couldn't read our thoughts. And he said, "Well can he read our dreams? Because I talk to the Lord in my dreams." And I said, "I don't know," and--[cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well, the Bible tells us in, I think it's 1st Kings chapter 8, during the dedication prayer of Solomon, that God, and God only, knows the hearts of the sons of men. Only God--and the word "heart" is the mind. The Bible says, "As a man thinketh in his heart," so that was the--

Belva: That's what I told him, but he said, "What about the dreams?" [Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well a dream is coming from your mind and your heart; and the devil doesn't have the ability [cross talk]. You know, you can impress a picture on a photographic plate and you can record a voice on magnetic tape; but thoughts are held in our brain matter. And I don't think the devil has got the tools to read our thoughts.

It is such a complex, mysterious miracle that only God knows how to read the thoughts. And the dreams and the thoughts both come from the same source. So I don't think the devil--he can put thoughts in our minds, and he can even give us a nightmare. He could put a dream in our mind.

Belva: [Chuckles] Yeah

Pastor Doug: But he can't read them.

Belva: Oh okay. That--[cross talk]

Pastor Doug: The meditations of the heart are just between you and God.

Belva: Um-hm, that's good. I can tell him that. And I told him I couldn't answer him because I didn't know, but I'd have to ask somebody that's smarter than me.

Pastor Doug: Well, I don't know that I qualify there, but I hope that helps a little bit.

Belva: Well I do, because you're a, a learned it in your Bible. I've learned a lot from listening to your program.

Pastor Doug: Well thank you very much.

Belva: I really appreciate them. And I do pray for you all--

Pastor Doug: Alright now I - -

Belva: - -thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you. I told you a Scripture. I want to make sure I give you the right one, 1st Kings chapter 8, verse 39 is the reference that I was thinking of, Belva. God bless and appreciate your call. Talking next to Jenny, who's calling from Milton, Minnesota, listening on KOPJ. Welcome Jenny.

Jenny: Hi Pastor Doug

Pastor Doug: Hi

Jenny: Could you explain to me Matthew chapter 24, verses 15 and 16, where it says, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, then let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains"?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. First of all, if you look in Luke 19:43, there are two interpretations for this. Keep in mind, in Matthew 24, Jesus is talking about the end of the world. He's also talking about the destruction of Jerusalem.

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Doug: The first abomination of desolation was when the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem. And you can read about that in Luke 19:43, "For the days will come upon you, that your enemies will cast a trench about thee, ... and they will not leave one stone upon another." That's one reference there.

And then if you go to Luke chapter 21, verse 20, notice what He says. "When you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, know the desolation thereof is nigh." So the abomination of desolation, the first interpretation, the first fulfillment rather, is when Jerusalem was desolated and the temple was destroyed by the Romans.

And notice Luke goes on to say, and Luke is quoting Jesus, "Let those that be in Judaea flee into the mountains." Now, you go back to Matthew chapter 24 again. He says, "When you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains." So we know the first fulfillment is Jerusalem surrounded by armies. Did that make sense?

Jenny: Okay. Yes.

Pastor Doug: But there's a repeat fulfillment in the last days; and that's probably what you're asking about.

Jenny: Yeah. I'm wondering about--yeah I didn't realize about the--I kind of knew about the Jerusalem, but, yeah, I'm wondering about the last days; also what to look for in the last days.

Pastor Doug: Well there's going to be a time in the last days when God's people are going to be persecuted for their faith and they need to flee into the wilderness, the same way God said to Lot, "Flee into the mountains." You remember Jesus said, "As it was in the days of Noah, as it was in the days of Lot, so shall it be when the Son of man returns"?

And when the beast power begins to make laws and tell God's people how to worship, and who to worship, they are not going to be able to buy or sell. Their only chance of survival is to flee into the mountains, so to speak, or the wilderness.

Jenny: Okay. So when they pass laws, is that the abomination of desolation in the last days?

Pastor Doug: I'd say that's the kickoff point. You know, there's a book that's called, The Abomination of Desolation, that we print at Amazing Facts. We'll send you a free copy of that. Would you like that?

Jenny: Yes I would.

Pastor Doug: Because there's so much to this that I'm wondering how much I can say right now. I try to budget about three minutes per caller to get as many as possible in. That's a big subject. So let me send you that book, The Abomination of Desolation. Just call 1-800-835-6747 and we'll send that to you Jenny.

Talking next to Sandy, who's listening on WDGN in Southern Illinois. Welcome Sandy, you're on the air.

Sandy: Hi, and it's WDQN. Sorry about that.

Pastor Doug: You got it--it's right on the screen. I mis-said it.

Sandy: That's okay. Pastor Batchelor, based on 2nd Peter 1, verse 4 and 2nd Corinthians 7:1, where we're told about God's precious promises--

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Sandy: --and that's how we escape the lust that's in the world, do you know of any specific promises that could be claimed, other than Isaiah 49:25, if our children are walking in paths that they shouldn't be; and specifically, with the subject of homosexuality?

Pastor Doug: I think I do. If you look in--and maybe you just quoted this one. I was going to say 1st Corinthians chapter 6, did you--

Sandy: No, no. I didn't know about chapter 6.

Pastor Doug: Let me read this to you.

Sandy: Okay

Pastor Doug: "Know ye not," now listen carefully, don't get discouraged.

Sandy: Alright

Pastor Doug: "Know ye not," and this is 1st Corinthians 6, starting with verse 9, "that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Notice here: "And such were some of you."

Sandy: Right

Pastor Doug: Now he's talking to the church. He's saying, "Some of you were fornicators, idolaters, homosexuals, abusers of...drunkards," and so forth; but "You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord, by the Spirit of our God." And so by the Spirit of the Lord working in the hearts of our loved ones, He can bring conviction and conversion. And that's another promise you can claim.

Sandy: Okay, thank you very much and God bless.

Pastor Doug: Alright, and God bless you. Appreciate your question Sandy. Talking now to Olga, calling from Fresno, California, listening on KARM. Welcome Olga, you're on the air.

Olga: Hi Pastor Doug

Pastor Doug: Hi

Olga: I was watching your program on TV one time and it was about the gift of tongues.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Olga: In it, you compared people who pray in the gift of tongues to Babylon. You said that unless the gift of tongues is interpreted, it is just babbling. So I looked in 1st Corinthians because I pray in the gift of tongues and I found these lines. I know that Paul, in Corinthians, Paul encourages prophesying.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Which verse? You're in 1st Corinthians 14?

Olga: Yes, chapter 14, and I found these verses, "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit." And then one says, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself." And then another says, "If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God."

Pastor Doug: Okay, very good.

Olga: And another says, "Therefore my brothers be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues." And I was just wondering um, how, like, yeah, like why did you say that?

Pastor Doug: Alright, well I appreciate your question. First of all, when it comes to the gift of tongues, the only place you're going to find the information that you're looking at is in 1st Corinthians 14, because the Corinthian church was a church--it's a seaport, Corinth. They had Roman slaves from all over the Roman empire in Corinth. The converts were speaking many different languages in the services, and it was confusing.

That's why Paul said so much to this church. Now, suppose that I should say to you, "[speaks in the Hebrew language]." Now I'm speaking in my spirit, and I understand what I'm saying, but it's a mystery to you. Paul is talking about people who were praying in a tongue that was unknown to those that were present.

That's why he says in verse 14, "If I pray in an unknown tongue, I pray in my spirit, but my understanding is unfruitful [to the listeners]." I might know what I'm praying, but those around, if I pray in another language--if I should pray in Spanish right now, a lot of people wouldn't understand, unless they spoke Spanish.

Now, I believe in the gift of tongues and I don't think we should forbid to speak with tongues. And I've done a lot of meetings before; and I believe in the gift of tongues. I've done meetings before where I've had one or two translators, and they translate what I'm saying. But can you show me an example in the Bible, Olga, where Jesus prayed in tongues?

Olga: No

Pastor Doug: Can you show me an example where any of the apostles prayed in tongues?

Olga: I'm not sure.

Pastor Doug: Well there's not. I'd be honest with you and tell you. Paul did say, "I speak with tongues more than you all." That's because Paul traveled more widely and he was more fluent in many languages. But there's no example of anybody in the Bible--an example--praying in tongues.

We do have an example on Pentecost of them preaching in tongues. But you and I are talking now about praying in tongues, right? So for us to be teaching a doctrine about praying in tongues when there's not a single example in the New or Old Testament of somebody praying in tongues--an example of someone actually doing it--I think we need to be very careful.

I believe that what it's saying here about tongues is talking about different languages that were being spoken in the church, and people praying in different languages; but it wasn't babbling that other people couldn't understand. And if you're praying in a tongue and you're not knowing what you're praying, if you look at any definition of prayer, you should know what you're asking for.

Prayer is communication between you and God. And if you don't know what you're saying, how do you know if your prayer is being answered?

Olga: But then how come it says, "he utters mysteries with his spirit"?

Pastor Doug: Well that's talking about people who are praying in a tongue and the others listening don't know what he's saying. It's mysteries. He might be praying in the Spirit, but they don't know what he's saying because they don't speak that language. You know, what I'd like to do, Olga, and I hope you do it. I'll send you a book I've written on the subject of tongues.

It's a short book, but it has mostly Scripture in it. So, if nothing else, you'll want it just for the Scriptures. Would you like that?

Olga: Sure

Pastor Doug: It's free. Just call this number. You just gotta do this; call the number, it's 1-800-835-6747, ask for Pastor Batchelor's book on tongues.

Olga: Okay

Pastor Doug: And I know there's a lot of spirit-filled Christians that speak in tongues that are on their way to heaven, but I think many of them misunderstand or misinterpret the doctrine. So take an honest look at it okay?

Olga: Okay

Pastor Doug: Alright. Appreciate your good spirit and your question. Let's see if we can take another call or two. Who's next here? We're going to talk to Ethelline who has been waiting patiently, WMCA in New York, New York. Welcome Ethelline, you're on the air.

Ethelline: Yes Pastor, good night.

Pastor Doug: Good evening. How are you?

Ethelline: Yes. I'm fine Pastor. My question is how did the serpent reach in the tree to tempt Eve, Adam and Eve?

Pastor Doug: Good question [cross talk]

Ethelline: When--

Pastor Doug: Oh I'm sorry, you weren't done. Keep going.

Ethelline: Okay. After he cause Eve to sin, God cursed him to go on his belly. How did he reach the tree?

Pastor Doug: Alright, well I was right. I was anticipating where you were going, but I should have let you finish. The very fact that God cursed the serpent to go on his belly and eat dust after sin means that he did not go on his belly before the curse, or it wouldn't have been a curse. The curse meant he lost something and he was lowered somehow.

Among the skeletons that they find of prehistoric animals all over the world, they have these reptiles with wings. And most Bible scholars believe that before the fall of man, serpents had the ability to fly; and they weren't the ugly gray or brown pictures you might see in National Geographic because we don't know what colors they were. But they were very beautiful, exotic, hypnotic creatures. And they were in these trees.

Well we know snakes can even climb trees today, so that shouldn't surprise us; but they were winged creatures. And even today, serpents have something called vestigial remnants on their ribs; and it appears that some limbs or something were there. Well these were probably the remnants of where their wings used to be.

But the pterodactyls and terodactyls, they're not millions of years old. These were these serpents that flew, the reptiles that flew before the curse. So I hope that helps a little bit Ethelline.

Ethelline: Yes Pastor, but is there any Scripture to back that up?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well it talks in Isaiah about the fiery flying serpent. And so if you look in--oh let me see real quick--see if I can find this for you. Isaiah chapter 30, verse 6 it talks about the flying serpent there. So take a look at that. That's one reference I have; and then there's, of course, a lot of commentaries.

Oh, how much time do I have left? I've got one minute. Oh I don't think I'm going to have time for--well, let me see. Alright. Dora, line 9. How quickly can you ask your question Dora? You're on the air.

Dora: Hi

Pastor Doug: Hi, got one minute, sorry.

Dora: Okay. Does Deuteronomy 28:15 talk about how God curses--God can also curse man if they don't follow Him? Now as Christians in Jesus Christ I was also told that we have to, like, cut those curses or they will continue. Is that true, or as soon as you receive Jesus Christ, everything is like--

Pastor Doug: That's a good question. The good news is when you receive Christ, the old person is dead; and any curses attached to that old person go to the grave with them. You become a new person with a new heritage. You are adopted into the family of God and don't need to worry about the curses that might be connected with your generation. That's the good news. I'm sorry Dora. That's a quick answer, but I think it, maybe, was to the point.

Listening friends, if we didn't get your question tonight, give us a chance next week. God willing, we'll be back. Keep us in your prayers. Check out the Amazing Facts website. You'll find out about our National Geographic broadcast on July 16; and, of course, there's a plethora, a kaleidoscope of other materials, and video, and audio, and Bible questions at

Remember, we are a faith-based ministry; and anything you do to keep us on the air we appreciate. God bless you friends. And remember, Jesus is the truth that sets you free.


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