A Prayer on a Pin

A Prayer on a Pin

Date: 08/20/2006 
Just about everybody in the western world has heard of the Lord's Prayer. Even if they don't remember all the words, most people would certainly recognize it.
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Just about everybody in the western world has heard of the Lord's Prayer. Even if they don't remember all the words, most people would certainly recognize it. Let me quickly read it from Matthew 6, verses 9 to 13.

"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."

Now, stay with me. In the late 1800's, a convicted forger named A. Schiller spent the vast bulk of his life at the notorious Sing Sing prison in New York. One day, the guards discovered he had died in his cell. Among his few personal effects were seven straight pins, six silver and one gold. Otherwise, they were typical-sized pins.

Yet something about those pins caught the attention of one of the guards and they examined them more closely with a magnifying glass. There was something there. Much to everyone's amazement, under 500 times magnification, they saw that Schiller had etched on the head of all seven pins the entire Lord's prayer.

The prayer that I just read to you with 65 words and 254 letters, that whole prayer literally on the head of a pin, measuring the usual 47/1000ths of an inch in diameter. That's pretty small. Of the seven pins, the prayer etched on the gold pin was flawless and a true masterpiece. No one is sure why seven. Perhaps he carried a silver one for each day of the week and the gold one for the Sabbath.

Schiller had spent the last 25 years of his life placing the prayer on each pin using a powerful magnifying glass and tools so small you couldn't see them with your naked eye. It's estimated that it took 1,863 separate strokes to etch out the prayer on each pinhead. Before his death, Schiller went blind. No doubt, this is partially due to the incredible eyestrain of his astonishing artwork.

And although he's long gone, the prayer on the pins remains. Schiller etched a prayer on the head of a pin. You know, the new covenant in the Bible tells us that God wants to write His law in our hearts. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: We are thankful that we can be back with you friends for another fresh edition of Bible Answers Live. This program, if you're tuning in for the first time, is a live, international, interactive Bible study. And yes, we are on the air and you can call in with a Bible question.

It's not a program where we talk about finances or romances or politics or a lot of the subjects that are popular on talk radio. We talk about what we think is the most important thing, the word of God, and how we can live forever, better in this life, and eternity in the future. If you'd like to call in with a Bible question, then dial this toll-free number, 1-800-GOD-SAYS--that's the acronym--1-800-463-7297.

We do have some lines open so pick up your phone now. Make your call. Keep a pencil close at hand because we give away a lot of resources. This program is brought to you by Amazing Facts Ministries. We do radio, and television, and publishing, and training, and live evangelism, and just about everything that can be done; Internet ministry, Bible studies.

So if you keep a pencil handy, you can also just go to amazingfacts.org or even amazingfacts.com will take you to the website. You'll see all of the resources and materials we have to help you in your personal Bible study. But now, call if you've got a question, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And my name is Jëan Ross. Good evening Pastor Doug and listening friends. You opened the program by talking about Schiller and this amazing feat of writing on the tip of a pin. Just tremendous. We're going to talk a little more about that in just a few moments. But let's start the program with a word of prayer.

Pastor Doug: Amen

Pastor Jëan Ross: Dear Father, once more as we open up Your word, we ask that You be with us. We pray that You be with those listening and those who will be calling in with questions. Father, we ask that the answers would be clearly from Your word and be a blessing to those who are listening. Thank You for being with us. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Jëan Ross: Now that is an amazing feat. It took him 25 years to write the Lord's Prayer on the top of those pins.

Pastor Doug: Yes, and when I first saw this amazing fact, I always like to substantiate the things I share with our friends. I did a little research and I actually saw a photograph. The pins still exist today--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um m

Pastor Doug: --a photograph of the magnification of the etching of the Lord's Prayer and I could zoom in with my photo shop program. Unbelievable!

Pastor Jëan Ross: Could you read?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. You can read it. It's very legible block letters.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And the whole Lord's Prayer, the way I just read it, on the head of a pin. How he did it, what kind of magnifying equipment he had, how he could hold his hand steady enough to etch those letters, it's all just totally--it is amazing.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But you know, it naturally made me think that God wants to write something in our hearts that might be invisible to the naked eye. But the Bible tells us this is the "new covenant by which we are saved." You can find this in both Jeremiah chapter 31:31--people are amazed that the new covenant is found in the Old Testament, but the new covenant really originates in the Old Testament.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: It's also quoted in the New Testament in the book of Hebrews. It says, "For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my law in their minds, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God; and they will be to me a people."

God wants to write His law, not on stone, but on the living, fleshly tablets of our hearts. And when the law is there, because if we obey God due to love... I heard a Pastor illustrate it this way one day. There is a law that says don't kill your children. It is against the law to kill your children. Most parents don't even think about that law because they wouldn't think or dream of killing their children.

Because they love their children, it's natural.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And love is the fulfilling of the law. When we love God, we keep the first four Commandments. When we love our fellow man, we keep the last six Commandments. So this is what it means to have the love of God in our hearts. It helps us want to obey.

Maybe some friends would like to know more about this law. It's summarized in the Ten Commandments, not just written on stone, but written on the heart. We have a free study guide that we'd like to offer anybody who simply asks.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The free study guide is, Written in Stone, and you can get it by simply calling our resource number. The number is 1-800-835-6747. Again, the free offer is, Written in Stone, talking about the law of God and the new covenant. There's a lot of confusion, Pastor Doug, about what is the new covenant, but this study guide- -

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: And, right, the relationship between the Ten Commandments and the new covenant, and what laws in the Bible were nailed to the cross, and what laws are still eternal--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Binding today.

Pastor Doug: Yes, and--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure

Pastor Doug: --a lot of folks are confused.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have two Internet questions this evening that we'd like to start the program with. The first one is, "Who are the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation 11, verse 11? Are they Moses and Paul?"

Pastor Doug: Well no. Actually they're Moses and Elijah because the Bible says that Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration. Actually, Moses and Elijah are symbolized by those two witnesses. Moses represents the law, Elijah represents the prophets.

The law and the prophets are the word of God. So all though the Bible you'll hear about--the last promise in the Old Testament, last prophecy, says, "Remember the law of Moses my servant," this is Malachi chapter 4 and, "...Behold, I send you Elijah the prophet." And then Moses and Elijah appear to Jesus, like the word of God endorsing that Christ is the Messiah.

You read that "the dragon is enraged with the woman" in the New Testament, Revelation 12, "that has the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus." Later it tell us, "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." So the law and the prophets represent the New and the Old Testaments, the word of God, and they are the two witnesses. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, let everything be established."

Matter of fact, if someone wants more information on the two witnesses, we have a book called, The Two Witnesses. We'll send them a free copy if they call the resource number that you're giving out.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It's 1-800-835-6747. The book is, The Two Witnesses. It's an important subject. There's a lot of confusion today. "Are two people going to appear in Jerusalem and preach and then die for three days?" That book deals with that and explains that.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next question, "When I donate money to charity, should I consider it as part of my tithes and offerings?"

Pastor Doug: Well it's good to support worthy charities, and this is typically thought of as offerings. Tithe is not money that we might donate to a charity. Tithe is designated by the Lord as something that is restricted funds that are very holy. They're set aside for the proclamation of the word. And the tithes were to be for the support of the ministry in the temple and the ministry of the Levites.

The 12 tribes of Israel all received an inheritance; but the tribe of Levi did not receive an inheritance. Their full-time job, God did not want them to become so preoccupied with farming and shepherding that they weren't ministering and teaching the word of God to the people. So tithe was to be allocated to the proclamation of the word.

If somebody wants to help an animal shelter or some other, what might be a worthy cause, that would be an offering. Tithe is to be going to the church where a person is usually receiving the feeding of the word--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay

Pastor Doug: --nourishment of the word.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you for your questions. If you would like to give us an Internet question,--

Pastor Doug: Oh by the way,

Pastor Jëan Ross: --just go to the website,

Pastor Doug: Pardon me Pastor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure, go right ahead.

Pastor Doug: We've got a Bible study called, "In God We Trust?" that covers the subject of tithe in detail, and someone might want that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. Let me give you the number for that as well. It's our resource number. It's 1-800-835-6747. The study guide is, "In God We Trust?" and it deals with the question of tithing and offering and so on. If you would like to give us an Internet question that we can read on the air, just go to the Amazing Facts website and link on Bible Answers Live.

You'll be able to put the question right there and we'll get it and hopefully, get an opportunity to share it on the air. Well, we're going to go to the phone lines. Our first caller is Jody listening on KFIA in Sacramento, California. Welcome to the program. Jody, are you there?

Jody: Oh yes, hi, I'm sorry. Well, I have a very confusing question.

Pastor Doug: Alright

Jody: It confuses me. Okay. According to Ephesians 2:8 we're saved by grace through faith.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Jody: And in, well I'm confused because it says we're saved by grace; and then in Acts 16:31 it says that all we have to do to be saved is just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. And then we have 1st Corinthians 3:16 and 17 where it's talking about defiling the temple of God.

Pastor Doug: Right

Jody: Okay, and in James 2:10 it says that, "Whoever shall live by the whole law, but stumbles in one point, he is guilty of all of them."

Pastor Doug: So your question is, if we're saved by faith, then why does it also sound in these other verses like there needs to be some works--

Jody: Something more.

Pastor Doug: Yes. Well, that is a very good question. And by the way, our offer tonight on Written in Stone answers that question very well. But I'm going to give you a quick answer.

Jody: Okay

Pastor Doug: The word "believe" is one of the most abused words in Christianity. The word "believe" actually comes from the word "to be live." It's "be live." Whoever "be lives" in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Some people think that to say, "I believe in Jesus," means to mentally agree, "Yes He did live and He did die on a cross and He does love me."

But James goes on to say the devils have that kind of faith. The devils know that God exists better than we do because they can see the spiritual world.

Jody: Yes

Pastor Doug: That believing that He exists--the devils know that Jesus died; they were there to help Him be destroyed. They were at the cross trying to intensify His agony. They know He died on the cross. They know He loves us. They may not understand it, but they know He does. They are not saved by that knowledge and that belief.

That's why James says, "The devils believe and tremble." So it's not simply believing that something is true. It's a belief that responds to that.

Jody: Okay

Pastor Doug: For instance, if I say to you, Jody, "There is a tornado coming through Sacramento," I guess you're calling from the Sacramento area.

Jody: Yes

Pastor Doug: And you say, "I believe it" but you don't go to the fallout shelter, you didn't really believe. James goes on to say real belief will respond. And if we believe in God's love, if we believe in the plan of salvation, then Jesus said, "It's not everyone that says, 'Lord, Lord' but they that do the will of My Father."

You know, when Christ finished the Sermon on the Mount, He closed with a parable of the wise man and the fool. You probably heard that--

Jody: Yes

Pastor Doug: --little children sing songs about it.

Jody: Yes

Pastor Doug: He said, of course, "The wise man is he that hears these words of mine and does them.... The foolish man hears these words of mine and does not do them." And so it's not enough to simply say, "I believe that He loves me and that He lived and that He died." That's where salvation begins. But then if we do believe, we act on that.

Jody: To be doers of the word and not hearers only.

Pastor Doug: Exactly, yeah. So, we are saved by faith, but real faith will be evident. That's why James says if you really believe the tornado is coming, then you warn others and you get out of the way.

Jody: Yes

Pastor Doug: So that's the kind of faith the Bible is talking about.

Jody: Okay. See, my problem thing here is that I smoke.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Jody: So I'm not only defiling the temple of God, I'm also breaking the Sabbath law the first time I light a cigarette.

Pastor Doug: Oh you're talking about, yeah--

[Cross talk]

Jody: No I (unintelligible) no water. I have no chance.

Pastor Doug: Now, well wait a second. Don't get discouraged. Pastor Doug smoked for years and I went to church while I was smoking for years; but I was convicted just like you are. And you know what? I believed that the Lord loved me and that He was working in my life, and ultimately--but I was under constant conviction that, "Hey you know, my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. I want to be a better witness for the Lord."

I felt I wasn't being a good witness by not only--

Jody: That's how I feel.

Pastor Doug: Well that's good. You know, do you want the Lord to make you feel good while you're doing something that hurts you Jody?

Jody: No, no.

Pastor Doug: Or do you want Him to convict you because He loves you? Well, He loves you. He wants you to feel conviction; but He can give you the victory over that. Matter of fact, I'll tell you what really helped me. I finally got to the place where I said, "Alright Doug, does God want you to quit?" And I said I'm sure He does because it says, "Thou shalt not kill" and, you know, of course, I was killing myself.

Jody: Yes

Pastor Doug: And I said, "Alright, will God help me do what He wants me to do?" And I thought, "God will not ask you to do anything without helping you to do His will." I said, "Lord, I'm helpless. Without You, I can't do anything; but through Christ I believe all things are possible."

Jody: Philippians 4:13.

Pastor Doug: Exactly. And I'll confess to you Jody, you know how many times I quit smoking before I quit?

Jody: No

Pastor Doug: Mark Twain said, "Quitting is easy. I've done it a hundred times."

Jody: Right

Pastor Doug: I quit seven times before I quit. But you know what? It has been 30 years I haven't had a single cigarette in my mouth--

Jody: Praise the Lord

Pastor Doug: --by God's grace; so you can do it. Would it be okay with you if Pastor Jëan and I and whoever is listening have a quick prayer for you?

Jody: Oh absolutely, please.

Pastor Doug: Alright, we're going to do that right now. Father in heaven, we just want to agree together, and to collect and coalesce the prayers of all that are listening around the country and direct them towards Jody and others like her, who are struggling with a habit that they want the victory over. They feel convicted that Jesus wants to set them free, but it is still a struggle.

And so we pray, Lord, that You'll do for her what You did for Peter and just break the chains, that she rises to follow You. Set her free, and I pray that as she takes the first steps, that You will cleanse and heal her. So bless her, give her the strength, and I pray that You will help her have confidence that You'll finish what You started in her life. In Christ's name we pray, amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Amen!

Jody: Amen, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Hey Jody, can we send you a book that might give you some encouragement on that?

Jody: Oh I wish you would.

Pastor Doug: There's a book called, The Power of a Positive No. It's a great title, Positive No. Sounds like an oxymoron.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But The Power of a Positive No, if you'll call our resource number, we'll send that to you for free. There's some stuff in there that will encourage you in gaining the victory.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Jody, the number you need to call is 1-800-835-6747 and just ask for, The Power of a Positive No. It'll be a great encouragement to you. Our next caller--

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Pardon me Pastor Ross. Another book that Jody might ask for is, Tips for Resisting Temptation.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hm, that's a great booklet.

Pastor Doug: It's written by yours truly and there are a lot of tips in there for someone who's been through it. So--

Pastor Jëan Ross: And this is not only for someone struggling with smoking but any temptation.

Pastor Doug: Any habit, yeah, any temptation. Anyone listening to my voice now is tempted.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right.

Pastor Doug: Everybody fits into that category.

Pastor Jëan Ross: So again, the number is 1-800-835-6747; and that second book written by Pastor Doug is, Tips for Resisting Temptation. Our next caller is Joseph calling from New York listening on WMCA. Welcome to the program Joseph.

Joseph: Thank you. I'm calling concerning Psalm, I believe it's 111:10.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Joseph: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." I one time read or heard that when they use the word "fear" what they actually mean is "love." Could you please give me your impression sir?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well in Psalm 111:10 where it says, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom," the word "fear" can sometimes mean not love so much as awe and reverence. God is awesome. He is so great; and the word "fear" also can be a positive word.

Now it's not translated "love," but there is something healthy about the kind of fear that a child might have for the greatness of their father. But it's not the fear where they run from their father but they climb up into his lap and they look at his massive hands with this wonder.

Joseph: I see.

Pastor Doug: So it's a fear, it's a reverence, it's an awe at the strength, but it's not the fear where you run from God.

Joseph: I see.

Pastor Doug: He wants us to run to Him.

Joseph: I see.

Pastor Doug: But it's also a respect for His majesty and His greatness and His glory and how awesome He is. So that fear of the Lord, recognizing the greatness of God, is the beginning of wisdom.

Joseph: It's not the fear as we know fear to be.

Pastor Doug: No, because the Bible goes on to say the fearful, in Revelation chapter--I think it's 21 Pastor Ross--are in the lake of fire. The fearful--maybe it's Revelation 22--the fearful are cast into the lake of fire. And perfect love casts out fear John tells us.

So, God doesn't want us to live in fear. Jesus always said, "Fear not," "Fear not," Fear not," but He didn't mean don't fear God. That means we should revere, reverence--

Joseph: Yes

Pastor Doug: --God.

Joseph: Thank you very much Pastor.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Thank you, appreciate that Joseph.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for calling Joseph. Our next caller is Loretta listening from Savannah, Tennessee on WDNX. Welcome to the program Loretta.

Loretta: Yes, thank you Pastor Doug. I've got a brief question and an observation. My question--I called last week and I was asking about verses where the angels sang. You directed me to Luke 2, I believe, 13 and 14.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Loretta: I looked that up and it doesn't say they sang there, but my question is that word that they use, is it "sing" in maybe the Greek or Hebrew or whatever?

Pastor Doug: Oh you mean in the original language?

Loretta: That's correct.

Pastor Doug: Well, when it says they're praising God there, I don't believe the word is "singing." You're correct.

Loretta: Okay

Pastor Doug: In the Old Testament it talks about how the singers praise the Lord in the temple--

Loretta: Yeah

Pastor Doug: --and it's the same context that these angels are praising God collectively the way the singers in the temple did; and so it's believed that they're praising in song.

Loretta: Oh okay, because--[cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Now, were you wondering last week if angels sing?

Loretta: Yea--well I was trying to find, I'm assuming that they do because I think there may be references to harp playing or something of that sort. But I've been just trying to find an actual reference.

Pastor Doug: Well Job chapter 38, verse 7--

Loretta: Yes, I was going to ask that about the morning stars in the morning--

Pastor Doug: Yes, "When the stars sang together, and the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Loretta: Okay

Pastor Doug: You'll find in Revelation 12 that sometimes stars are referred to angels.

Loretta: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's Revelation 1, I think it's the last verse--

Pastor Doug: Yeah, also in Revelation 12, the angels that fell with Lucifer--

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right, stars.

Pastor Doug: --he drew one-third of the stars. They were angels.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: They're fallen angels but--

Loretta: Okay. Okay, yes, yes. I've got--

Pastor Doug: So uh, go ahead. I was going to say so angels sing.

Loretta: Thank you. I've got a brief observation.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Loretta: And I've been reading through the Bible again and I've tried to, kind of, attack it with a different mindset; and I want to ask the question in reference to each book, "What is this book saying to me?" Now I've gotten to Numbers where I'm a little bogged down, but I'm trying to look at it from that light. And truthfully, I guess I can understand the reasoning but I can't understand why Numbers is in the Bible; and I'm not finding any spiritual growth there--

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well keep reading. Let me tell you, when you get to the book of Numbers, first of all, in Numbers chapter 13 and 14 it tells about when they sent out the 12 spies.

Loretta: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Ten of them lost faith, two of them had faith, Joshua and Caleb, great story. In Numbers is where you're going to find the story about a donkey talking to Balaam. You remember that story, when the donkey talks?

Loretta: Okay yes, I'm familiar with that. I remember it's in there.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, that's in Numbers. It's nowhere else. So there are a lot of tremendous spiritual stories in the book of Numbers.

Loretta: Oh okay.

Pastor Doug: But along with that, in the numbers of the Bible there is a spiritual meaning. The numbers 3, 7, 12, 10, 40, 70 appear an inordinate number of times in the Bible.

Loretta: Okay

Pastor Doug: And each one has a spiritual meaning. So when you go through the numbers of the tribes you might be thinking, "What does this mean?" You'll find some interesting patterns--

Loretta: That's where I'm bogged down.

Pastor Doug: Yeah--well you know, those among us, like my wife, she enjoys balancing the checkbook. Some people read through Numbers and God speaks to them through the Numbers. It's amazing.

Loretta: Oh.

Pastor Doug: For me, I'm like you, where I just kind of--goes right--my eyes glaze over and I need the stories to keep my interest. But, there's a lot in the Numbers too.

Loretta: Yeah, I'm trying to look for something spiritual, but thank you; because I've read it before and I think I probably did like you, just kind of look over it and not really concentrate on it. But I'm trying to look at it from a different mindset, and that's what I'm trying to do.

Pastor Doug: You know, if--

Loretta: Well, thank--

Pastor Doug: That's--no problem. We have a website that's called prophecycode.com and I have a list at that website, they're extra study notes and it talks about Bible numbers and their meaning. So if you go to the Prophecy Code website, it's just prophecycode.com, you'll also find additional study resources where I have an explanation of Bible numbers and what their meanings are. And I think anyone can, of course, go and pick that up just in case.

Pastor Jëan Ross: I think you also have on that same website symbols.

Pastor Doug: That's right, yep.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Bible prophecy symbols.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, like it talks about a lamb is Christ; the dragon, the devil, so forth.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Great resource. Our next caller is Max calling from Brooklyn, New York, listening on the Internet. Welcome to the program Max.

Max: Ah yes, hi. Hi Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Hi, thanks for waiting.

Max: Thank you. Yes, my question comes from Daniel chapter 3, verse 25.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Max: Um yes, it reads, "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." My question is how did he know what the form of the Son of God was?

Pastor Doug: Well, I don't know that he had ever seen Jesus before, but Nebuchadnezzar had heard Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego--they were counselors--they probably had told him about the Messiah, that God would come to earth as a man, as a savior. So when he saw this fourth being in the fire that had this divine presence, that was just a phrase he chose to use.

Keep in mind, to be fair Max, even in many of the pagan religions, they had legends about the Son of God.

Max: Okay

Pastor Doug: Sometimes they said that it was the son of the sun. They had different variations of it; but there was this divine human that was glorious. And Nebuchadnezzar looked in the furnace and he saw this fourth person was not like a human. He was a divine being like the Son of God that Daniel had described to him.

Max: Oh okay. I see.

Pastor Doug: So, he was just using his vocabulary to say there's a divine being that's like God,--

Max: Right

Pastor Doug: --like the Son of God in this furnace. And then it reminds us that when we go through the fire, the Lord promises He will be with us--

Pastor Jëan Ross: That gives us hope.

Pastor Doug: --when we go through fiery trials, that's right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Absolutely

Pastor Doug: Good question Max. I appreciate that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, do we have time for one more? [Cross talking] Let's give it a try.

Pastor Doug: I think, oh, we got--

Pastor Jëan Ross: One minute--

Pastor Doug: Well I'll tell you what, let's, I'd--rather than cut someone short like that, why don't we ask them to hold a few moments longer.

Pastor Jëan Ross: There goes the music.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I thought it was sneaking up on us. We're going to have our break right now; and that's something that is controlled by the clock friends. So, what shall I say? Alright. Let me tell you about the website one more time, amazingfacts.org, a lot of free resources.

Anybody listening, if you are a pastor, or if you teach in a Sunday school, or a Bible study class, you would want to go to this resource. You're going to find amazing facts. There are free study guides you can download. We don't charge anything for a lot of our material. We've also got stuff you can buy; but we want to put the truth in people's hands.

We probably have hundreds of lessons and booklets and studies on some of the most important questions--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --that you can read them for free, you can order them on the Internet, and it will enhance your Bible study. We'll be back in just a few moments with more Bible questions, but we hope that you'll take advantage of the website. Also, don't forget to check out bibleuniverse.com and you can enroll in our special Bible study course there. Back in a moment.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: You are listening to Bible Answers Live and we are live. If you have a Bible question, then you can call our resource number, that's 1-800-GOD-SAYS, that's 1-800-463-7297. If you've just tuned in and joined us, this is a live, interactive, international Bible study where we all get together and, without very much warning, the questions are dictated by the Holy Spirit we hope. We don't know what's coming.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: We pray that God will guide us to the answers in His word. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. We would like to welcome a radio program broadcasting Bible Answers Live, WDLV 105.1 FM, in Simpson, North Carolina. So if anyone is listening on that radio station, we'd like to welcome you in a special way. Pastor Doug, September 11 is just around the corner and there's something special going to be happening.

Pastor Doug: Yes. We're doing something Amazing Facts has never done before. We are entering the big leagues, in that we are going on prime time, 7:00 pm, on the PAX Network, which is also known now as I-TV. It is in 91 million homes. Most people in North America can get this either on cable or the Dish Network or on full-power television.

It's a half and hour program that I recorded with Pastor Dwight Nelson, who is also a Pastor who's seen regularly on television.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And it's called The Final Events of Bible Prophecy. In this program, we're going to be giving away a 45-minute DVD that goes through the final events of prophecy. We just think it is so important. And it's very (unintelligible) that God arranged it where this is on 9/11 and we're doing this half an hour broadcast.

Also, we'll be telling people about a 10-part prophecy seminar that begins a few days after this that virtually anyone in the world can receive, either by satellite or going to a church location that's hosting the seminar, called the Most Amazing Prophecies. If you would like more information on the broadcast on the PAX Network, then just go to the Amazing Facts' website. I'm sure you'll find that there on our homepage.

If you'd like to register your church to participate in this Most Amazing Prophecy seminar, just go to the website, mapseminar.com, and you'll find locations or it'll show you how to register. If you'd like to know how to view the program, you can type in mostamazingprophecies.com and find a location near you.

And be praying for us because this is a live program. It has not been recorded yet. I was studying this morning getting my material together for these programs.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It's going to be an exciting event, starting September the 15th--

Pastor Doug: Yes

Pastor Jëan Ross: --Most Amazing Prophecies. Let's go to the phone lines. Our next caller is Gil and he's calling from Queens, New York, listening on WMCA. Gil, welcome to the program.

Gil: Oh welcome. It's always a pleasure and treasure to speak to you guys. And I'm also blind and visually impaired. I'm sure Doug might remember me.

Pastor Doug: Hi Gil, how are you doing?

Gil: Oh, very well. I'm glad you remember me. When I was on the train this week, I met--or was it last week?--somebody that knows of you and your wife here in New York City. And they told me about Saturday they go to church and all of that. So I said to them, "Have you heard of Doug Batchelor?" and she said, "Yes." And she said, "Did you know that Doug Batchelor has a wife name Karen?" Am I correct?

Pastor Doug: Yes

Gil: [Laughs]

Pastor Doug: I hope she's listening right now.

Gil: "All things work together for good to them that love the Lord." All things--

Pastor Doug: Now, let's get to your question before we run out of time Gil.

Gil: Oh sure, 1st Peter 1:25 says that, "the word of the Lord endureth for ever." And it also says that, "this is the word by the gospel which is preached unto you." And then the Bible says in 1st Corinthians 1:18 says, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing; but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." Now in light of all of that, I was stressing to someone in church this week how important it is to not just keep the information to yourself because it's important to get the Gospel out there. And they study and all of that and I watched them, but they don't share it with anyone. And they said to me, "The reason why I don't do that is because I was criticized, or I don't want to cast my pearls before swine." Why is it important, while studying the Bible, to share what we have learned, because I don't believe we should be information junkies, but we should be those who are willing to share God's treasure to a lost and searching world.

Pastor Doug: You know, that's a very good point and I like your phrase there, "just information junkies." Jesus uses a parable where He talks about this rich man that is clothed in purple, that feasts sumptuous every day, and a beggar lays at his gate desiring the crumbs that fall from his table.

Christ was describing both the Jewish nation of His day and the church of our day that has an abundance of truth. We are feasting on the truth, and yet, the lost are like those beggars at our gate wanting the crumbs of truth that fall from our table, yet we don't share it. So Christians do have a responsibility. But when we're not sharing, it usually indicates something is wrong with the heart; because when we have the love of Christ, we will have a burden for the lost and we'll feel this yearning, burning desire to reach people for Christ.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: When the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, they just had to tell others. They could not keep the message to themselves. Paul said, "Woe unto me if I preach not Christ. He was a carbonated Christian, you can't keep it in.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: So, that's the truth, Gil, that we want to be witnesses for the Lord and you're on the right track. Share the Good News with others. Appreciate your question and hope that helps a little.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for calling Gil. Our next caller is Stacy and she's listening from San Diego, California, on KTRZ. Welcome to the program Stacy.

Stacy: Yes, hi. I'm calling--actually a first-time listener, and I'm really getting blessed. I definitely know the Holy Spirit is sitting in this program. My question is, is it responsible to tithe if you're having financial problems, like being short on a mortgage payment?

Pastor Doug: Well that is a good question. I know that a lot of people struggle with this, but I only have one answer I can give, and that is, tithing is not giving our tithe to God as a gift. Tithing is returning to God what is His. So if you're hurting financially, are Christians ever justified in stealing?

Stacy: No

Pastor Doug: Alright. In Malachi chapter 3, I think it's verse 8 Pastor Ross? The Lord says that when we fail to tithe we are robbing God. He says, "All of the tithe is Mine and it is holy." And if we take something that is God's, it's robbing.

Adultery is when someone invades a holy relationship to take a husband or wife that belongs to somebody else. You're taking that which is holy that is not yours. When we give our tithe, God says, "Prove Me," and that word "prove me" means "test me," "and see if I do not open for you the windows of heaven."

I have seen many times, Stacy, that when we're struggling, if we step out in faith and pay our tithe, don't ask me how God does it, but He will make 9/10ths go farther than 10/10ths. And He's done it for me many times. I know He's done it for you and your family--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --because God can be trusted; and I know that may sound like a struggle, but God can't perform miracles for us unless we give Him a chance by stepping out in faith. Sometimes you've got to put your foot in the water.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, the interesting thing about this is that not only does God promise that we can trust His word, but there's proof in the lives of hundreds and thousands of Christians--

Pastor Doug: That have done this.

Pastor Jëan Ross: --that have taken God at His word and He's always been there for them. Somebody once said that 90% of our income goes farther than 100% if it has got God's blessing.

Pastor Doug: That's right, 90% blessed is more than 100% cursed.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right.

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Absolutely.

Pastor Doug: Hey, you know what--and Stacy I know it's a struggle. I can remember when I sold firewood for a living and I learned the truth about tithe. And it was so hard to take 10% of my $65.00 I got for a cord of wood and set aside for the Lord; but every time I did it, He worked some miracle--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --and everything lasted longer and went further and God just blessed. Are you still there?

Stacy: Yes

Pastor Doug: There's a study guide we'll send you for free. We've offered it already tonight, but it will encourage you. It's called, "In God We Trust?" and it deals with this subject. If you'd like a free copy, just call the number Pastor Ross is going to give you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747, and again, the study guide is, "In God We Trust?" and it deals with this important subject of tithing and offerings and how God promises to bless us if we are faithful to Him. We'll go to our next caller. Ric, who is listening on WMCA, calling from Bronx, New York. Welcome to the program.

Ric: Oh hi, good evening.

Pastor Doug: Good evening.

Ric: This is, like, actually my first time listening, and I'm glad I tuned in because I had a pressing question in the book of Revelation--

Pastor Doug: Okay

Ric: --chapter 14 and I'm praying and I, you know, have faith that you would be able to help me with it. So, I spoke with two people recently and they told me in chapter 14, verses 1 through 5, basically that it's saying that the whole 144,000 people are in heaven. This just didn't resonate well with my spirit, just the fact that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins; and there's more than 144,000 people in this world; and when we die it's absent of the body, present with the Lord. So I'm not understanding how the people I'm speaking with, how they are using that Scripture about the 144,000 people are only going to be in heaven. So if you can help me with that, I'd appreciate it.

Pastor Doug: Well, I've got good news for you. Do you have a Bible in front of you?

Ric: Yes I do.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Turn to Revelation 7,--

Ric: Okay

Pastor Doug: --chapter 7 of Revelation, and if you look in verse 4 it says, "I heard the number of them that were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Ric: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: Now, this is telling about those who are sealed for a special work--

Ric: Oh

Pastor Doug: --but if you go down in the same book, and this is, of course, talking about the 144,000, look at verse 9. "And I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude that no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands."

And then, John goes and he says in verse 13, "Who are these arrayed in white robes?" "Who's this great multitude that no one can number?" And he says in verse 14, "These are those who came out of great tribulation, and they have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

So there's a great multitude that no one can number who are saved from the earth. They've come through great tribulation; so obviously, it's not just 144,000 that are saved.

Ric: Right

Pastor Doug: Here's the key that really should ring a bell for most people. The 144,000 are the same as the apostles. Jesus did not die just to save 12 apostles. He trained 12 to reach many. In the last days--and that was during the time of His first coming. Before His second coming, He trains 12 x 12,000 to reach a great multitude that no man can number.


Jesus is not coming back defeated to our world as though nobody is saved. And while it is true, "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leads to life, few their be that find it." "Broad is the way to destruction." There are a lot more than 144,000 the Lord is going to save out of these six billion people in the world.

Ric: Right

Pastor Doug: So there is hope for you.

Ric: Okay [laughs]

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Ric: Alright, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Hey, by the way--hey, you know what? I hope--what helped me--don't, don't go away yet.

Ric: Okay

Pastor Doug: I spent a lot of time writing a book on this--

Ric: Really?

Pastor Doug: --and the book is called, The 144,000, yeah.

Ric: Oh

Pastor Doug: It's an easy book to read. It's a small book, but we'll send you a copy for free if you'd like it.

Ric: Oh that will be great. I do appreciate it.

Pastor Doug: But you'll have to pick up your phone. One more time if you want the book, it's a free phone call--

Ric: Sure

Pastor Doug: --and nobody will knock on your door and bother you.

Ric: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: Just go ahead and call the resource number. If you have a pencil handy, the number you need is 1-800-835-6747. Just ask them for the book written by Pastor Doug Batchelor, The 144,000, and they'll send that right out to you. Thanks for calling [cross talk] and we appreciate your call. Line 8, Chip, calling from Visalia, California, listening on KARM. Welcome to the program Chip.

Chip: Well thank you. Forgive my voice. I have a little bit of laryngitis tonight. Pastor Doug, I want to say I really enjoy your Amazing Facts program. And Saturday mornings I have a special trip that I go pick up my granddaughter and I listen to you all the way there. I really enjoy your messages--

Pastor Doug: Well bless your heart.

Chip: --on Sabbath morning.

Pastor Doug: And your question?

Chip: Well my question is--is that it has really been troubling me--that is that according to the Scripture, Acts 2:38, Acts 19:1-5, Paul even being an apostle of Jesus Christ, baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 2 and 38, the New King James Version that I just recently purchased says that the plan of salvation is found in Acts 2:38. Now that's in the New King James Version.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Chip: And also in Galatians 1 and 1, Paul says, "I, Paul, an apostle." So that means he was an apostle. And Galatians 1 and 8, he says, "If we, or an angel from heaven, come preach any other gospel than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed." Are we accursed if we baptize any other way than in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? And in verse 9, he repeated it and said the same thing; and said, "That which you have received...." Well, they had obviously received that message of truth and had practiced that message of truth. Were the apostles wrong?

Pastor Doug: Well...so is your question dealing with the importance of baptizing specifically in the name of the Lord Jesus?

Chip: Right, [cross talk] rather than the title?

Pastor Doug: As opposed to the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit?

Chip: Right, and I heard you do it on a baptism one morning on my way. I heard you do it and you talked about the 13 principles of the church.

Pastor Doug: Alright, well let me address your question as well as I can. Of course, our friends know in Matthew 28:19, Jesus does say, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38 says, "...baptize in the name of Jesus Christ." Acts 8:16 says, "...baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 10:48 says, "...baptize in the name of the Lord."

Chip: Right

Pastor Doug: And so, here you've actually got it a little different in all four places that I just cited. There's really no conflict between these four utterances because Jesus is obviously in there. There is obviously no sin if Christ commands the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Chip: What is His name?

Pastor Doug: Well, you say, "Baptize in the name of the Father."

Chip: So isn't that an interesting statement if you say to baptize--Jesus Himself said, "All authority," in 20:18, "has been given unto me"?

Pastor Doug: What do you think the name of the Father is?

Chip: Jesus. Jesus said I have come in My Father's name.

Pastor Doug: And what do you think the name of the Holy Spirit is?

Chip: Jesus,--

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: So why didn't Jesus say--

Chip: --and He said I will send the Holy Spirit in My name.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Then my question is in Matthew 28, why didn't Jesus just say, "baptize in the name of Jesus" or "baptize in My name?"

Chip: I don't know that. So are we in error by baptizing in that formula when the apostles themselves baptized, by record, Acts 19 and 1 through 5, when they were disciples of John--

Pastor Doug: I have no problem. In other words, I'm not opposed to people baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ, or in the name of the Lord Jesus. My question is, do you have a problem with someone baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Chip: I couldn't cash a check if I put Father; but our sins are forgiven by His name and all power and authority is in His name.

Pastor Doug: Well, now let's use your example for a second. If I perform--and I'm not trying to belabor this question but--if I perform a wedding, I know that the law of the land will accept that when I conduct the wedding, if I say to the two before me, "Do you, Richard James Rothschild, take Sally Sue Miller," I mean, the whole name. Or I can say, "Do you, Richard, take Sally?"

And in any state, as long as the two people understand who their making a commitment to, it is a legal covenant. So the utterance of the names and how a person signs their name--sometimes my name most of the time is not even legible when I sign it but it is legal. So I think what you're doing is that you're straining a gnat here about the utterance.

I'll tell you, I baptized yesterday. When I baptize I say, "In the name of the Father, in the name of the Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit." You know, I cover all the bases that way.

Chip: I only heard you do it twice while I was traveling one Saturday morning. One time you said the words, "I now baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Ghost." And then another time I heard you say, "I know baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name." I heard you do that.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well there's the proof right there. Sometimes it's a little different, but the idea of baptism, there's no power in the utterance of the phrase. The power--

Chip: Hold it, wait a minute, all power is in the name of Jesus.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well, now wait a second. Do you think that you can say the name and that there's some kind of ... it's abracadabra, like you throw His name around, there's--

[Cross talk]

Chip: Every knee shall bow- -

Pastor Doug: --or is it a relationship with the name?

Chip: Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. He has all power and authority in heaven and earth.

Pastor Doug: No. I'm not contesting. I'm not contesting the sacredness of the name of God. But the important thing about the name of God it's not the utterance of a sound. The important thing about the name of God is Who is behind that name. It's the reputation. You know, I don't want to be unkind, but we try and budget about three minutes per question.

We've got several people waiting Chip. I've written an article called, The Name of God. It's at the Amazing Facts' website. You can read it for free. It's in our archives of our Inside Report magazines. Please, take a look at the whole thing.

I go into great depth talking about the tetra-gammatron and the name of God. But we better move on to another question because that's a long question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you for calling Chip and we appreciate your comments. Let's go to our next caller. Lanie is listening on CFMQ from Hudson Bay, Canada. Welcome to the program.

Lanie: Hi Pastor Jëan and Pastor Doug. The question I have for you tonight is if we know that someone is sinning and we pretend we don't see it or we ignore their sin, we do nothing about it or help them out to share God with him, or whatever, are we not accountable for them [cross talk]?

Pastor Doug: Well it depends. I've seen some people--

Lanie: Especially if we've been convicted to share with them something [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well now, that would be something. Now for instance, in the Ten Commandments, it makes a very interesting statement when it talks about the Sabbath. It says that we should allow to rest, "the manservant, the maidservant, the donkey, and the stranger within our gates."

That means that God places some people within our gates of influence that we are responsible for. I am not responsible for what is happening outside my gates. I can't walk up and down the streets and shake every hobo with a bottle in his hands and say, "You shouldn't be drinking."

Lanie: Right, exactly.

Pastor Doug: It's just, you know, that's absurd.

Lanie: Right

Pastor Doug: But when you have a relationship with people- -

Lanie: Yeah, I'm talking about people close in our gates [laughs]

Pastor Doug: - -and then the other thing is, when I first became a Christian, I began to preach to my mother and father and tell them about all the sin in their lives. That was not a good idea because you need to respect your parents and sometimes it's a delicate thing to try to chastise or correct your parents.

So, but there are people that God places within our realm of influence and He will lay them on our hearts; and if we see that they're wandering, you've got that verse in James where it says if anyone sees a brother stray from the truth and you bring them back again--we do have an accountability.

Paul says, "I am innocent of the blood of all men," meaning that the people he was convicted to preach to he preached faithfully to so their blood is not on his hands.

Lanie: Right

Pastor Doug: So we do have some accountability, but you can't be going up and down the street shaking everybody by the collar telling them to quit smoking and drinking and cursing and just being obnoxious.

Lanie: Right, and I don't--yeah, that's not my, that's not what I'm thinking here. But I was also, um, so often you hear, "Don't judge. We can't judge, we can't judge," but- -

Pastor Doug: Well you know, that's what Cain says.

Lanie: - -I don't see the similarity between judging to me. Maybe I'm not seeing right but- -

Pastor Doug: Cain said, "Am I my brother's keeper?" and he acted like I'm not responsible for Abel; but we do have some accountability for each other. That's why the other sailors threw Jonah overboard. They were going to drown unless they dealt with Jonah.

Lanie: Right [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: That's why the Israelites lost the battle because Achan was in the camp and they weren't dealing with Achan.

Lanie: And then there was, wasn't there a priest whose kids were killed and then he died as well- -

Pastor Doug: Eli

Lanie: - -because he didn't, Eli.

Pastor Doug: Yes, yeah. Of course, we all know where--you definitely should chastise your children if they're out of line. But I hope that helps you a little bit Lanie.

Lanie: Can I just ask you about the judging thing? Would judging mean not that I'm condemning that person to hell, like I would think, "Okay, if you're going to be that way, you're going to go to hell" Would that be judging? But to say to them, you know, I could share with them some truth or whatever, that's not judging. That's loving them?

Pastor Jëan Ross: If I could just add something here Pastor Doug. We need to know what's right and wrong. So if someone is sinning and we bring that to their attention kindly, that's not judging. But when we try to figure out their motives, we don't know the heart.

Lanie: Right

Pastor Jëan Ross: We don't know the experience. So we can see if someone is doing something right. The Bible is very clear about what is sin and what's not sin. So, you know, that is not necessarily judging; but when we try and guess the motive, that's a different story.

Lanie: Right

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Jesus actually says in John 7:24, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." Now right there Christ is telling us judge- -

Lanie: But what Scripture is that Pastor? Sorry.

Pastor Doug: John 7:24.

Lanie: John 7--

Pastor Doug: "Judge righteous judgment." No one ever quotes that one.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Lanie: Okay

Pastor Doug: And Paul says, "Look, you're going to judge angels some day. Can't you judge in the little things?" So we are commanded--where is that, 1st Corinthians?

Pastor Jëan Ross: I think probably so.

Pastor Doug: We are commanded to judge. I hope that helps Lanie. We've lost a lot of time. We try to get a few more callers on, so we're going to move on here.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We're going to have to go to our next caller. It Eduardo, if I pronounced it correctly, in Vineland, New Jersey. Welcome to the program.

Pastor Doug: Eduardo, are you there?

Eduardo: Yes

Pastor Doug: Thanks for waiting. Your question?

Eduardo: Yes, my question is are we Christians allowed to go to amusement parks?

Pastor Doug: Well that's a good question. We're right now across the street from the California State Fair, the biggest in California. It's going on across the street and it's a big amusement park. Let me tell you, the word "muse," I think, is a Greek word and it means "to think" to "ponder." "A-muse" means "not to think."

So when a Christian goes to an amusement park it's a place where you don't think. You know, there may be some harmless entertainment at some fairs. There are obviously some science and animal exhibitions that are very interesting, and maybe even educational. Unfortunately, there's also sometimes a lot of frivolous things that may not be useful.

And then the worse part is sometimes there are non-Christian displays and exhibits. So it's sort of a mixed bag. It's interesting, when you read the book, Pilgrim's Progress, it talks about the lost going to a city called Vanity Fair [chuckles]. You've probably read that before.

Most people don't go to an amusement park for spiritual strengthening; but I don't want to consign to the lake of fire those who may go to a state fair. Hopefully, they'll do something educational. I don't know if that helps a little bit Eduardo. One thing I will tell you, the Bible says if it's not of faith, it's sin--"anything that is not of faith is sin."

So, if you're convicted about it, I have no desire to change your mind. Does that help you a little bit?

Eduardo: Because, you know, sometimes we have doubts about that in our church--

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Eduardo: --because, you know, some group wants to go to the amusement park and another one says it's bad.

Pastor Doug: You know, I don't think it's a place that Christians ought to go as a church outing. That's not what I would imagine--I mean, you know, maybe the zoo--but I can't imagine Christians at a church saying, "For spiritual redemption, let's all go to the amusement park." You hope the churches will plan things that have some spiritual value.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But families may, on their own, want to go to a state fair, and that's a different issue.

Eduardo: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: Hope that helps a little bit. Thanks for your question Eduardo.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We're going to try and get at least one more caller in. Eric is calling from Huntsville, Alabama, listening on WOCG. Welcome to the program Eric.

Eric: Yes, how are you doing Doug?

Pastor Doug: Good. Thanks for your patience.

Eric: Yeah, how are you doing, um, I just had a quick question on Genesis chapter 22, verses 2 and verse 12. My question is, I was reading over this and it kind of confused me. It kind of seem like a contradiction. I was wondering why would God specify and say, "Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac." And He repeats it again in verse 12 when He says he's withholding his only son Isaac. Didn't he already have Ishmael? Wasn't Ishmael older?

Pastor Doug: Yes, good question. I have to answer you quickly. That is because God did not recognize Ishmael as the promised son. Ishmael was the result of Abraham losing faith and taking a surrogate wife at Sara's urging. And God is saying, "The son I'd always intended you to have was Isaac and you ran ahead." So He referred to him as his only son. Isaac is also a type of Christ, of course,--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --which is a symbol of God's only begotten Son. I'm sorry. I hate to race through such a sacred question. That's a great question. Listening friends, thank you so much for participating. We're out of time for this week. God willing, we'll be back next week.

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