Reviving the Spiritually Dead

Date: 07/22/2012 
In 1986, two and a half year old Michelle Funk was playing with her brother near their home outside Salt Lake City. They were playing by the icy waters of dry creek when she slipped and sank. Her frantic mother, neighbors, and paramedics tried desperately to find her.
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Pastor Doug: Hello, friends. This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? In 1986, two and a half year old Michelle Funk was playing with her brother near their home outside Salt Lake City. They were playing by the icy waters of dry creek when she slipped and sank. Her frantic mother, neighbors, and paramedics tried desperately to find her. 66 minutes later, her lifeless body was pulled from the creek by a diver.

When she was found, she had no heartbeat and her core temperature was 70 degrees. She was rushed to the Primary Children Medical Center in Salt Lake City where a special machine warmed up her blood. When her temperature reads 91 degrees, her heart started beating and she opened her eyes. Michelle fully recovered with no side effects from her near death experience. What gave Michelle a chance was the fact that the water was clean and icy cold. If it had been lukewarm, she would not have made it. Why does Jesus say, "I would you were hot or cold but because you're lukewarm, I will spew thee out of my mouth?"

Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Welcome friends and we're live and this is Bible Answers Live. We invite you to call in with your bible questions. For the next 55 minutes, we will be taking your phone calls from around the country and even around the world. If you have a bible question, here is the phone number one more time. It's 800-GOD-SAYS, 800-463-7297, that'll bring you into our studio. Keep a pencil or pen handy, we'll be giving you some web addresses and another number for the free resources we always make available on this program. One more time, we've some lines open. If you have a bible question, give us a call, 800-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening, listening friends and Pastor Doug. Let's begin with prayer. Father, once again, we thank you that we have this time to study your word together. We ask your special blessing upon this program, be with those who are listening wherever they might be. We pray for wisdom here in the studio as we search the scriptures for answers for we ask this in Jesus name Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about Michelle who survived more than an hour under water. It's incredible.

Batchelor: It is amazing. It's the longest record of anyone who survived, documented, of someone who survived in drowning. The only thing that kept her alive is that the cold had shut down her systems so that whatever oxygen was left in her blood basically sustained her until they could warm her body back up again.

It made me think about that verse in the bible, where Jesus says in Revelation 3:15, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot. I would wish that you were either cold or hot. So then because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth." Then He goes on to explain what that means, "because you say I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing and you don't know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked."

Now I can always understand when Jesus said, "I wish that you were hot," as opposed to being a lukewarm. Hot being filled with the spirit on fire, it's like the disciples were baptized for those "tongues of fire" means having the zeal of the Lord. When Jesus said, "I could wish you were hot or cold." Well, you would think of hot as safe and cold would be lost. Why would Jesus ever say, "I wish you were lost?"

Cold doesn't mean lost. Jesus is saying, "I wish you were on fire, zealous, enthusiastic about your religion or if you humble yourself and realize your weakness, you're poor in spirit, you're repentant, that would be cool." To be lukewarm is to think everything is okay. "You're rich and increased with goods," when you're not.

When we think about what the word revival mean, what happened to Michelle is a perfect definition of revival when someone who was alive becomes inanimate. They must be revived. If someone swoons at a wedding or somebody drowns like this or has a heart attack and they're zapped back to life, they are revived. The church needs revival. We frequently need to be revived because unless we keep moving, we tend to cool off and go to sleep in our experience.

Maybe you feel like that sometimes, friends, that you've just had a lukewarm experience with the Lord. Maybe you've lost that first love that it talks about in Revelation Chapter 2. Jesus even said it's a real problem in the last days. What's that verse, Pastor Ross, about love growing cold?

Pastor Ross: Mathew Chapter 24 verse 12, it says, "And because lawlessness will abound but love of many will grow cold."

Pastor Doug: That's why we need that special machine to wake us up, the power of the spirit. If you'd like to know more about revival, how you could experience revival. By the way, this is a great resource for anyone who's teaching in a church or a pastor. It's 12 Steps to Revival. Tell us about it, Pastor Ross.

Pastor Ross: It's a book, Pastor Doug, that you wrote, 12 Steps to Revival. It's encouraging to know that there is something we can do in order to be revived. It's the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart but there's something we can do in incorporating with the work of the spirit. We'll send out this book to anyone who calls and asks for it. The book is entitled 12 Steps to Revival and the resource line is 800-835-6747. Pastor Doug, talking about being alive, this is a live streaming program this evening. Anyone wanting to join us here in the studio via the web, you can go to

Pastor Doug: How do you spell dot?

Pastor Ross: Just with a dot.

Pastor Doug: [chuckles]

Pastor Ross: Not D-O-T, just dot. All right. We go to the phone line. Our first caller is Craig and he is listening from Des Moine, Iowa. Cray, welcome to the program.

Craig: Yes. Hello. I called you both a few times. I haven't talked to you in a while. I thought I'd give other people a chance.

Pastor Ross: Welcome back and your question tonight?

Craig: Need a break for a while. [chuckles] Anyway, yes, I've got an important question. I've been reading the bible for years and studied it actually. I can't find any scripture in the bible that shows or says anything about how races became races. The people, like how African-Americans got curly hair and brown eyes and Chinese people got the eyes they have, that type of thing. I know the Tower of Babel created the languages but i don't know about the races. Do you have anything on that?

Pastor Doug: Yes. It's just the way that a genetic material ends up being divided through parents. There are certain what they call "micro evolution" not to be confused at all with macro evolution. You have different groups of people scattered to different parts of the globe. They intermarried within their clans and tribes that grew and populated because the whole world's populated from both Adam and Noah. Certain character traits became dominant. That's why you see different people and different cultures. Some people have said that Noah's three sons were three different races and, of course, that's absurd. There were many different genetic people all within Adam and Eve in their genes.

You know it's probably not the best analogy but it makes sense to me. When you think about all the different dogs in the world today, think about the incredible variety of dogs. You got dogs that are just like a big old pile of skin, they are all wrinkles. You got dogs with long hair and some with virtually no hair. You got dogs that are as big as a bar of soap and you got dogs as big as a Volkswagen.

All these dogs can trace the DNA back to two original dogs, even National Geographic agreed with that. There was a cover article called From Wolf to Woof and all the dogs can be traced back to two dogs via the DNA. Look at the variety. Well, it's based upon breeding, isolation environment to these things and the different traits become dominant.

Craig: Well, I've never thought about it like that.

Pastor Doug: Well, over the millennia, you have different traits of people became separated. You can go through the Pacific Islands and you can see distinct difference between the Polynesians, the Samoans, the Fijians and the people in New Guinea and just because their families were isolated on those islands, they intermarried and there's identifiable differences.

Craig: Well, that's really interesting.

Pastor Ross: You know we have a verse in Acts Chapter 17 verse 26 that ties in with what Pastor Doug's saying. It's an interesting verse, it says, "He, God, has made from one blood, every nation of man to dwell upon the face of the earth.

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Pastor Ross: From one blood or one DNA, you have all the variety of the various nations that have come up.

Pastor Doug: Yes, and that reminds me, in spite of the differences that we might have on the outside with the different races, if I have an accident and I need blood and I'm in the hospital, they don't need to check what the race is on the blood, they need to make sure it's O+ or whatever it is.All these different people in the world, they can intermarry, they have healthy children, they have the same blood type and so we, obviously, all came from the same parents.

Craig: Wow, that's amazing. Yes, I heard one person say once that the way we intermarry now and all this is that there will be no black, white or anything in the future, it'll all be a golden brown.

Pastor Doug: Well, it is true.

Craig: It's a way [inaudible 00:11:01] [laughs]

Pastor Doug: It is true that especially in America, there's a melding of the different ethnic groups together and it forms a new group.

Craig: Yes. Well, that gave me some things to look at, I never thought about it anyway [crosstalk]

Pastor Doug: All right, hey, we appreciate your calling back, Craig.

Craig: Huh?

Pastor Doug: Appreciate you calling back.

Craig: I'm just wondering, do you have time for a real quick question that you can answer real fast?

Pastor Doug: All right, let me see how quick.

Craig: [laughs] I'm reading Desire of Ages on page 38, it says that the brothers of Jesus were older, so that means that Joseph had children before marrying Mary.

Pastor Doug: Yes. A quick answer to that would be, many scholars agree that Jesus probably was Mary's only child, that the other brothers and sisters were from a former family Joseph had. He probably was a widower and the reasons for this being, that at the cross, Jesus commits the care of his mother, not to her sons or the brothers but to John the Apostle.

The other thing is that Joseph disappears, meaning he was older. By the time Christ begins His ministry, you never hear from Joseph again, he's in the past tense so he died some time between when Jesus was 12 and 30. The third thing is, it would be very unusual if Christ was the oldest and the first born, for Him to leave home and become an itinerant preacher but if He was the youngest, they would look the other way. Those are some of the reasons it's been wondered but -- Anyway, appreciate your call, Craig and who do we have lined up Pastor Ross?

Pastor Ross: We've got Wayne who's listening on Faith FM and he looks like he's calling from Belize. Wayne, welcome to the program.

Wayne: Hey.

Pastor Doug: Hey Wayne, you're on the air.

Wayne: Okay, my question is about Jesus. When He was on earth, was He human or was He God? The reason I'm asking you is I've heard you say He laid down His divinity but then at the same time, there is a verse in John that's mentioned that Jesus told one of the disciples when he was calling him that, "I saw you under the fig tree." Can you tell me about that?

Pastor Doug: All right. Well, Jesus was 100% God and yet He was 100% man. While He was on earth, He obviously did not have all the infinite knowledge of God swirling around in Him continually at His access because, well, you just think about that, when He was a baby, did Jesus need to learn to walk? Did He need to learn to talk? I seriously doubt that He suddenly appeared in the manger, there, talking coherently to Joseph and Mary.

Matter of fact, His brothers thought He was just a normal person. They wondered what was going on when He began to perform miracles and He started His ministry. Meaning up to that point, He lived like a normal person but He had all the knowledge of God revealed to Him at His access when He needed it. That's why Christ even said, "Speaking of the second coming, no man knows the day or the hour but the Father only."

When Christ was on the earth, He didn't have all that knowledge at His fingertips because He had laid it aside. I think it's in Colossians, Pastor Ross, where it says that "he didn't want it to be robbery." I would not consider it robbery to be equal with God but he made himself of no reputation, taking on him the form of a man that he might be a perfect example for us. He's our sinless high priest.

Now, we have a book that we can send you for free, Wayne. I think you can even read it online. By the way, say hello to all my friends listening in Belize on Faith FM. I've been there to the station, they got a wonderful ministry there. The book is about the nature of Christ and asking was Jesus like us. We'll be happy to send you a free copy of that if you call.

Pastor Ross: I think the verse you're referring to Pastor Doug, Philippians Chapter two verse eight where it says, speaking of Jesus and being found in the appearance of a man, "He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross."

Pastor Doug: Yes, and then we have the booklet that talks about was Jesus like us. You ask for that and about The Nature Of Christ.

Pastor Ross: The Nature Of Christ, okay.

Pastor Doug: We'll send it to you.

Pastor Ross: Anybody wanting to get that book, give us a call on our resource line, it's 800-835-6747. Asks for the book, The Nature Of Christ and we'll be happy to send that out to you. Next caller is Brandon and he's listening from Mount Vernon, Illinois, listening on 3ABN Radio. Brandon, welcome to the program.

Brandon: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Brandon.

Brandon: Do I need to take it off the speaker or -- ?

Pastor Doug: If you're on speaker phone, that probably would help.

Brandon: Okay. All right.

Pastor Doug: Your question?

Brandon: I was basically wanting to ask a question about -- I cannot find in the Gospels where Jesus talks about let your yea be yea and nay be nay. I wanted to say it was Mark 10 but [laughs] I've been looking and just can't seem to find it.

Pastor Doug: Well, in James 5:12, he said, "But let your yea be yea and your nay, nay." That's James 5:12, I think you are talking about.

Pastor Ross: Also, Mathew Chapter 5 verse 37.

Brandon: Okay, that's the one where it follows up and says, "anything else is from the devil?"

Pastor Doug: That's Mathew 5:37, yes.

Brandon: Okay, so it was Mathew? Okay, my question on that basically is could it also be taken like, if you answer people? Should you just answer them with just a yes or a no?

Pastor Doug: Well, I think Jesus says that in the context of people making vows and swearing oaths. He's saying, "Look, your word ought to be good enough without taking an oath every time you say something that's true." That doesn't mean that you can't expand your conversation with people beyond yes and no communication, that'd be pretty boring, Jesus obviously did more than just yes and no answers.

So he was really talking about taking oaths of the Jewish people. In particular in Christ's time, they were swearing by the temple, and they were swearing by the gift on the altar. They thought that some vows and oaths had more power than other vows and Jesus said it was all hypocrisy. Your yes should be good and your no should be good and you should mean what you say.

Brandon: Because basically, the reason I asked that is because whenever I was to answer people and like you said, the conversation can go further than that, When I find myself conversating, I also find myself contradicting myself at times so that's what happens [laughs]

Pastor Doug: Well, of course, you want to be careful and honest in what you say. There is another verse that tells us, "In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin," meaning the more we talk, the more options we have of saying something wrong. You ought to read everything it says in Ecclesiastes, I think it starts with Chapter 7, where it talks about being careful when you speak because we can get in a lot of trouble with our words sometimes.

Pastor Ross: Also, somebody that has a reputation of not telling the truth and they're trying to make a point, often, they are left to use all kinds of promises and vows to try and convince the person that what they're actually saying is the truth. Whereas somebody who has a good reputation, who is honest, to the point, truthful, they don't have to add on all kinds of promises and vows, people will take when they say it is so that it is so, based upon their reputation.

Pastor Doug: That makes sense?

Brandon: Well, thanks a lot, guys.

Pastor Doug: All right. Hey, thanks for your call, Brian.

Brandon: Appreciate what you're doing, keep it up.

Pastor Doug: Keep us in your prayers.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Daryl and he's listening on the internet from Florida. Daryl, you're on the air.

Daryl: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, Daryl.

Daryl: Hello?

Pastor Doug: Yes, you're on, thanks for calling.

Daryl: Hey, Pastor Doug. My question is, I have a friend of mine that he doesn't subscribe to the Trinity doctrine. He wrote this book called The Only True God, which basically explains his view. I'm discussing it with him and he makes a lot of really good arguments. One of which is, John 17, verse one through three,

he was saying that how it reads,"Father this is eternal life that they know You the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." Where he said that if Jesus were God too, then he would have worded it like, "That they know us, the only true God and Jesus Christ you have set forth," or that "you" in the Greek would be in the plural instead of the singular. That’s like the tip of the iceberg. He's got a bunch of different scriptures from the Old and New Testament -- Like I say, he makes a good argument and so I'm trying to --

Pastor Doug: Trying to understand it.

Daryl: Trying to explain what I think but it's like a lay person trying to argue with a lawyer, you know what I mean?

Pastor Doug: Exactly, I've studied this. I remember being shaken once when I was exposed in my early Christian experience to some very compelling arguments against the idea of the Trinity. I really had to study it out for myself and became very convinced that the idea of God, the Father, Son, and Spirit all being God is very Biblical. I even wrote a little book on it. We'll send you a copy of that or you can even even read it online.

Daryl: Actually, he's got your book on that, he read it all.

Pastor Doug: Well, good. I'm glad it's making the rounds. You know what I think really helps understand these principle arguments? Is when we remember that when Jesus came to the world and while He was living on the earth, He communicated and acted like a man. If God is going to become a man to reach men, then He needs to act like a man. He's our example so He prays like a man, He addresses the Father, He says, "Our Father which art in Heaven." He did everything to associate with us.

We can say, "Look, he's acting just like us," and take that to mean that He wasn't God become a man or we can recognize He laid aside -- That verse we just read, He laid aside His divinity when He was on Earth teaching and praying because -- You've got in Genesis where God says, "Let us make man in our image." Again, at the Tower of Babel, God said, "Let us." It's in the plural. When Jesus was baptized in the name of Father, Son, and Spirit. There's so much other evidence in the Bible.

Pastor Ross: The Gospel of John begins with, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among me." The Word is Jesus He was with God and John says He was God.

Pastor Doug: Then you go to Genesis, "In the beginning, God created," everything is created by God. You go to John, "All things that were made were made by the Word, Jesus." If all things were made by Jesus and if the Bible says God created, well, you add them up and it's pretty clear that Jesus must be God. Again, the Bible says worship only God right?

Daryl: Right.

Pastor Doug: We're told to worship Jesus when He rose from the dead, He said, "All hail." Even the angels worship Him. When John tried to worship an angel, the angel said, "Don't do it, worship God," but Jesus did receive worship.

Daryl: [crosstalk] Everything I brought up to him, he had a good scriptural explanation.

Pastor Doug: He's got an answer for everything. Well, they've been working on this for about 2,000 years because it's one of the oldest debates in the Christian church. There were whole wars that were fought over the idea of our dominionism and the Trinity. I'd appeal, if you've read my book, I don't know if you have or not. We'll send you or anyone who wants to understand the subject of the Trinity. Let me give you one more thing to think about. Just take this a step further, do you believe that Jesus is everlasting or does your friend think Christ was created?

Daryl: Yes, I believe he looks at the book in the verse in Colossians that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation.

Pastor Doug: Instead of understanding that means it's the first time God became a man, think about it for second, if all things were made by Christ, if He's created, well, that's something he didn't make, it would say all things except Him. If God is love, is it possible to be love if you go as zillion years in the past before there was anything?

Daryl: That's the same thing I was telling him other day exactly. See, I listen to bible answers live a lot I hear people who call in and have a similar question.

Dough:How can God be love with no one to love? Jesus says, "From everlasting to everlasting." He is the alpha and the omega. I wish we could take more time but we're going to have take a break in a minute, I want to try and get one more call, Daryl. Please send for the book on the trinity, if you haven't read it, I know your friend has or anyone out there. If you're struggling with the subject of the Trinity and the nature of Father, Son and Spirit, we'll send it to you free.

Pastor Ross: The book is called The Trinity: Is It Biblical? We'll send it out to you, just call our resource line, 800 835 6747, ask for the book,The Trinity: Is It Biblical? Good time maybe for one more caller Pastor Doug, James is listening Somerset, California in KFIA. James, welcome to the program.

James: Yes, thank you, this is a question what I call the devil woman woman problem.The part that difficult to understand is a woman shall encompass a man and the other is nor the desire of women.

Pastor Doug: All right, so and Daniel 11, where it says that "he will not regard the desire of women," that I believe is a prophecy talking about the emergence of what we think of now as the beast power. For the first time, it would have a celibate priesthood. That's a little different from what you find there, the other verse was what, Jeremiah 31?

James: 31:22.

Pastor Doug: A man will be encompassed by a woman?

James: Yes, a woman shall encompass a man, I think is correct.

Pastor Doug: Well, I could be wrong but in Jeremiah 31, I think it may be talking about a similar prophecy to Isaiah. Jeremiah and Isaiah were foretelling a judgment that was going to come on Israel where there wouldn't to be very many men left because they'd all died in battle. He's talking about the backsliding daughter, woman shall encompass a man. It says, "Seven women will take hold of one man," in Isaiah Chapter 4. It's because there were no men to marry and the women took the lead because the men had been decimated by the judgments. That's different from Daniel 11:37 that's really a prophecy.

James: Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: All right, appreciate your question James. With that, Pastor Ross, I don't think we want to cut someone off before the break. Friends, we're not done. We're going to take more Bible questions. Just in case you want to call in with a Bible question, I think we have one more line still open, 800 463 7297 brings you into the studio with your bible questions.

We are streaming. If for whatever reason, you would like to listen and watch, it's Also, want to remind you that there are so many of the materials we offer free at the Amazing Facts website. All you've got to do is go to to download them.You're listening to bible answers live. Well, Pastor Ross, we've got some other very exciting websites that enhance the Bible study for people.

Pastor Ross: Pastor Dough, I'm looking at one that I like in particular, it's called From time to time, we'll mention a study guide. You can actually go to website and you can enroll in the free online Amazing Facts Bible school. You'll go through -- How many lessons are they in all? I think 27. You can go through all of these lessons covering different bible truths. For anyone wanting to understand the Bible better or just to grow in your faith, what a great resource,

Pastor Doug: They can go there and there's lessons not only in English but right there at that website, they can refer people to lessons that we have.

Pastor Ross: We have Chinese, German. Did you know we have lessons in Norwegian, pastor Dough?

Pastor Doug: We do now, it’s new.

Pastor Ross: Armenian, Spanish and Macedonian.

Pastor Doug: Farsi, Arabic, much more.

Pastor Ross: Hey, friends. We'll be back, don't go away.


Doug Batchelor: Hey, we're back, friends. This is Bible Answers Live. Can you hear it in my voice when I'm smiling? We're happy. If you have a Bible question, give us a call. One more time, the number is 800-463-7297. You want to see the streaming program, just go online to live.amazingfacts. --

Pastor Ross: Nope, ww on this one. Just

Pastor Doug: Yes, here we are. We're going to back to the phones now I think.

Pastor Ross: I think so. We got Nathan who is calling from Tomahawk. I didn't know there was a place called Tomahawk, Wisconsin. Nathan, welcome to the program.

Pastor Doug: Hey Nathan, you're on the air. You're still there?

Nathan: Good evening, Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Pastor Ross: Evening.

Nathan: Okay. I'll go right to my question. Jesus Christ died on the cross. I read your Joe Crews' booklet The High Cost of the Cross. It mentioned in there that he died at the second death. Is this true?

Pastor Doug: Well, obviously, the second death, there's no resurrection for that. In the sense that those who died the second death face the eternal separation from God. No, obviously, Christ did not die the second death. I think what Joe meant there is that Christ, when He was on the cross, was facing the experience of the lost eternal separation from God. He suffered as the lost will suffer. That's when He cried, "My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?" He was really also asking the rhetorical question there. Christ was forsaken of the Father for us. He faced the second death. He obviously rose again and there is no resurrection from the second death that's spoken on the Revelation 20. Does that make sense?

Nathan: Yes, that makes perfect sense because I thought there's no way he could come back from the second death.

Pastor Doug: Yes. I think Brother Joe is just simply saying that Christ took the penalty that the sinners face. With the penalty of what they deserved for their sins and the hopelessness that they experienced because of their sins. He took it all.

Nathan: Okay. Well, thank you very much. God Bless your Ministry. You brought so much truth and obedience in my life. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Praise God. We're thankful to hear it. Look forward to hearing from you again.

Pastor Ross: We've got Carl, listening from New York, New York on the internet. Carl, welcome to the program.

Carl: Yes, hello. Can you hear me?

Pastor Doug: Loud and clear.

Carl: Very good. I have a friend who's concerned about what she read in a Greek Interlinear Bible where it says in Matthew 28:1. Now, in the King James, it says, "In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week." According to what she told me, the Greek Interlinear says, "In the end of the Sabbath, as began to dawn towards the first of the Sabbath." Supposedly that means that Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday.

Pastor Doug: Well, I'm looking at the original Greek right now and it says, "Sabbaton," and that's Sabbath. If it did say in some versions, there may be some versions where it says at the end of Sabbaths because this is also a week of not only the weekly Sabbath but there were Passover Sabbaths happening at the same time. Those Sabbath that Jesus died was called the High Sabbath because there was an overlap of the regular weekly seventh day Sabbath plus the Sabbaths connected with the Passover, an annual Sabbath.

If it said, Sabbath or Sabbaths, that shouldn't shake anybody's faith. To try to read into that, that there's some nebulous New Commandment that the Ten Commandments have been done away with or that one commandment has done away with. I don't think God would be so vague. When God gives the Sabbath command, He shouts it from a mountain and He writes it in stone for Him to change it with something so obscure. You see what I'm saying?

Carl: Yes, I do.

Pastor Doug: I think folks are really grasping. Just to be honest with you when they try to make it, add, or find some out of the ordinary manuscript and where there's some nuance but I'm looking right now at the Greek.Iit's a Textus Receptus and it says, "Sabbaton." It's the singular.

Carl: The Textus Receptus is basically King James Bible.

Pastor Doug: That was the King James. Exactly. I don't know what that version you're looking at.

Pastor Ross: Even other manuscripts will, for the most parts, say the same thing if you would've read this in, let's say the NIV, which uses a different set of original Greek manuscripts than Textus Receptus. It'll say first day of the week with reference to the day of the resurrection and Sabbath being the seventh day.

Pastor Doug: Yes, it's singular. I've heard Pastors out there trying to make a case for this but to me, it always sounds so weak. Here you got God, thundering from a mountain, audibly for a nation, giving this law, setting up the Sabbath, and then people have to start trying to carve something out of an obscure Greek plural to say, "This is where God was doing away with one of the commandments."

I don't think he'd be so vague especially since you get to the book of Acts. You see the Apostles are still keeping the Sabbath. That would, I think, be pretty good evidence. I appreciate your question, Carl and we do have a study guide. Well, people often wonder about the Sabbath. More and more congregations are rediscovering how important it is to remember that fourth commandment about rest. Boy, if we ever needed it in this stress-filled society and it's The Lost Day of History.

Pastor Ross: To receive that study guide, give us a call on the resource line. It's 800-835-6747. Ask for the study guide The Lost Day of History. You can also go to the Amazing Facts website and you can read it for free online. It's We have Paul listening on WHML from Pennsylvania. Paul, welcome to the program.

Paul: Hey, how are you?

Pastor Doug: Doing well and your question?

Paul: Yes, you know I have been pondering this for a long time about divorce. Jesus tells us at the end say, "This is a hard thing for you guys, for the people to hear," but really it's been going on. We're talking about a great number of people getting divorced. Christians, believers, and church goers getting divorce and I'm wondering what is Jesus allowing? The point is obviously if there's any physical or mental abuse, everything is in context to -- I just don't know. I just don't know what's the answer.

Pastor Doug: Well, two things. First of all, Matthew 5, when Jesus is talking about grounds for divorce, He says in verse 32, "I say to you whoever will put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication causeth her to commit adultery." Jesus said and He repeats that then in Matthew 19:8, He said, "Because of the hardness of our hearts, he allowed divorce." There is one other verse you'll find in 1 Corinthians 7, "If you've got two pagan unbelievers and one becomes a Christian." Let's say a woman accepts Christ and she wants to serve the Lord but her husband says, "I'm out of here. I didn't bargain for this and I'm just not going to be married to you." He abandons her and remarries.

Paul says under those cases, she's not in bondage anymore to the old marriage and she would be free, free probably to remarry is what he means. There's a book that I recently wrote it's, I don't know, about six months old. It's called Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage. It's a Biblical perspective. A lot of people out there might be wondering what is the Christian perspective? You're absolutely right, Paul. There's an epidemic not only of divorce in our culture but you can even find in the church. A lot of churches are a battle field of broken homes. We need healing there but we need to understand what's causing this and sometimes, I think people give up too soon.

Pastor Ross: The book is entitled Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage. We'll send that to you for free written by Pastor Doug. Give us a call on the resource number, it's 800-835-6747. That's 800-835-6747. Ask for the book Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage. Next call is Brian and he's

listening from Virginia, Sirius Radio. Brian, welcome to the program.

Brian: Hi. Thanks gentlemen. How are you doing tonight?

Pastor Doug: Doing well. And your question?

Brian: Good. My question is about the headline story about the cold, lukewarm, and hot. I wondered if you could go on a little detail about the cold and the lukewarm. Especially I read an article somewhat recently about the cold state and the writer speculated, I don't know what kind of [unintelligible 00:40:28] they've done but they speculated that cold might mean someone really far away from God that he could reach through a path and then lukewarm etcetera. I think maybe use some practical steps how to tell if you're a lukewarm and how do get back to the hot state.

Pastor Doug: Well, if we look in Revelation where Jesus is talking about the cure for lukewarmness. He says, "I counsel thee to buy of me gold." This is the faith that works by love. It's a character purified by Christ. Garments. White garments. He's talking about the righteousness of Christ as opposed to their own righteousness. Eyesalve that Jesus said the eyes, the window of the soul so to speak. He's talking about spiritual discernment.

He said, "When the blind lead the blind, they fall on the ditch." If a person doesn't know where they're going, spiritually they're blind, eyesalve from Christ so that the Holy Spirit will open our eyes and help us know where we're going. That's really telling us what the cure of lukewarmness is and it helps to identify what lukewarmness is based on what the cure is doing.

Pastor Ross: Something else about that verse. We're looking at Revelation Chapter 3 which is peace to the Church of Laodicea. The church is in a lukewarm condition and, of course, the church is made up of individuals. Part of that cure in order to get this gold and this raiment and this eyesalve, Jesus says, "Behold I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in unto him. I would dine with him and he with me."

In order for us to see our true spiritual condition, we have to go to Jesus. We need to invite Him to come in because it's only when we see His glory, His perfection, that we begin to see our need of Him. By joining close to Him, the bible says, "If we draw near to God, He will draw near to us." There is something we can do to get out of our lukewarm spiritual condition.

Pastor Doug: Does that help or you're also wondering a little bit about what the cold means?

Brian: Exactly right.

Pastor Doug: Well. We have to do this by saying what it doesn't mean if would Jesus say, "I wish you were hot." Supposedly, that means zealous on fire for the Lord, full of the spirit. Your hearts are warm. Cold, would that mean lost? Would Jesus say, "I wish that you were lost?" Or is He saying I can work with the person who's got a humble heart that's in the state of repentance?

Maybe they are not fully obedient but they're turning to God like the prodigal son in a foreign country. Their hearts are softened. He can work with that. Back in bible times, if your water was boiled, you could drink it or if it came from cold running water, you could drink it but lukewarm stagnant water could be deadly. If someone does not have a moving, boiling water moves, cold running water moves but if a person has got a stagnant experience where they're not growing, they are not growing the relationship with the Lord. It's usually going backwards. Love grows cold.

Pastor Ross: If you put that in the context of the time of Jesus, you could probably say the woman at the well that Christ spoke to in John Chapter 4. She would be in the cold category whereas the Pharisees would be in the lukewarm category. They didn't sense or see their need of Jesus. She did see that she had a problem and she needed help and she was willing to receive the help that only Christ could give.

Pastor Doug: God can save the hot and He can save the cold. He just can't reach it, the lukewarm is like that Pharisee who prayed, "I thank you, I'm not like other men," and began to brag about his righteousness. Trusting in his own.

Pastor Ross: We do have that book, Brian, that I think you'd enjoy, anybody wanting to learn more about the subject, the book is entitled 12 Steps To Revival. It goes into this subject in greater detail. Call our resource line, 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book 12 Steps To Revival. We have Silas who is listening on satellite radio from Arkansas. Silas, welcome to the program.

Silas: Hi, Pastor. Pastor, would you agree when you're Christian, there are no accidents?

Pastor Doug: Well, there is a scripture that says time and chance happens to all but I think ultimately, the providence of God rules in our lives.

Silas: You touched on something I called about. God showed me something. I'm going to let it out for you. You can accept it or not. God showed me that when Jesus was on the cross and He said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" He was pointing to Psalms 22 which is described to what's happening to Him at that moment. Then God, after a period of time, showed me and led me to go to Genesis 22, which is an example Abraham with Isaac.

Pastor Doug: Interesting.

Silas: Then after a period of time, a pastor [unintelligible 00:45:22] I heard him on TV say that that was the first time Jesus ever referred to God as God. He always refer to Him as Father. Then God led me to go to Revelations 22 and I was shocked to find that that was the last chapter, the last book of the bible. It says not to eschew or take away from this book the consequences." If you take those three times 22 pastor, we come up with 66. How many books are in the bible? 66.

Pastor Doug: Interesting. Do you have a question or a statement?

Silas: That's what I just wanted to show you is Jesus was not forsaken on the cross. He was quoting scripture.

Pastor Doug: I believe that.

Silas: Psalms 23 also is a perfect example of that. God all through Deuteronomy, all through the bible, he says, the only way He forsakes us if we were sinful and forsook Him. We have been told all these reasons that Jesus was forsaken by God and if He told them if you accuse a man of that, He would be furious and it will break His heart. That was that does to God. He hasn't ever forsaken anyone. He didn't forsake God Jesus. That was His moment of trial. That's what He came for.

Pastor Doug: Well, let me give you something to think about. In Isaiah 53 when it talks about Jesus suffering, it tells us that the Father withdrew from Him for our sakes. He was smitten of God and afflicted for our sakes, it was a darkness. Jesus experienced separation from God because He was experiencing our sin. Of course, God was right there behind the clouds so there's nowhere anyone can hide from God but you were correct.

In Psalms 22, that's what you call a Messianic psalm. A matter of fact, if you look in Psalm 22 first verse, "My God my God, why have You forsaken Me?" You go to verse 16 and He says, "For dogs have compassed Me, the assembly of the wicked has enclosed Me. They've pierced my hands and my feet." In that very Psalm, it's talking about what He was experiencing. He's calling people to look and say, "I am the Messiah." Yes, Jesus was separated from the Father. The Father withdrew from Him when He began to suffer for our sins. I appreciate your sharing Silas. You would also enjoyed that bible study series that we've got at

Pastor Ross: James listening from Oregon on satellite radio. James, welcome to the program.

James: Hey. I have a good question about Mathew 26:17.

Pastor Doug: Get real close to your phone.

James: Yes. Did you hear that?

Pastor Doug: I can hear you. Mathew 26:17, you said?

James: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Okay, we're going there. You want me to read that or --?

James: Go ahead because I'm sick.

Pastor Doug: All right. It says Mathew 26:17, "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread, the disciples came to Jesus saying to Him, where wilt thou that we should prepare for thee to eat the Passover?"

James: My question was in Leviticus 23:5. It talks about it in a different order. My question was is sometimes the Passover in a different order?

Pastor Doug: I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm sorry. I know in Leviticus 23, it's got the feast of the Lord laid out there.

James: Yes and it says on the 14th day, Passover is and the 15th day, the feast of the unleavened bread is.

Pastor Doug: Right. Well, all of that was called -- Sometimes they use the word "Passover" not to describe just any one day. They described Passover to encompass all of those feasts including the unleavened bread because the unleavened bread was eaten in connection with the Exodus. The Exodus experience is when that angel of judgement passed over so all of it was called Passover.

Pastor Ross: In other words, you had the feast of unleavened bread and they would be the pass of a meal but often, the whole feast including the unleavened bread was referred to also as the Passover.

James: All right. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: You're welcome. We actually have a book we can send you that talks a little bit about this called Feast Days and Sabbaths. We'll send you a free copy, James.

Pastor Ross: The phone number is 800-835-6747. The book is entitled Feast Days and Sabbaths. We have Barbara who is listening from Illinois. Barbara welcome to the program.

Barbara: Thank you.

Thank you very much. I'm very nervous, please forgive me. My question is pertaining to the devil, Revelation 12:7-9. I don't know if this has already happened please. Because in Job 7, "He answers the Lord he says, from going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down in it." Over here he says he was cast out of heaven into the earth. Where literally is he right now?

Pastor Doug: First of all, Revelation 12:7 is talking about a past war where the devil was cast out and even Jesus said, "I saw Satan like lightning fall from heaven". I forget what verse that was, Pastor Ross, you can probably find that for me. But the devil is here, you read in Job, when God said, "Where did you come from?" This is way back in the Old Testament, the Book of Job. The devil said, "I came from walking to and fro, up and down in the earth." The devil Christ refers to as the prince of this world, Satan kidnapped this planet when Adam and Eve sinned.

Pastor Ross: The verse you're referring to is Luke 10:18.

Pastor Doug: You want to read that?

Pastor Ross: Yes, let me take a look at it, it says, Luke 10:18, it says, "Jesus speaking and He said unto them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

Pastor Doug: Christ was there when the devil was evicted and in both verses, it's referred to in past tense. There was a war, and then you go to the future, it talks about in Revelation 20, there's still a future battle left between Christ and the devil. When the angel lays hold of that dragon and cast him in the bottomless pit, there's still one final struggle in that battle, that millennial battle that's going to happen between the dragon and the woman.

Pastor Ross: With reference to Revelation 12, you have this casting out of heaven in verse seven and then you have another casting out in verse nine. If you like, there are two casting out, the one Satan is driven from heaven, the other is he's cast down in a second sense when Jesus died on the cross. That's why you'll read in verse 10 it says, "Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, now salvation and strength in the Kingdom of our God has come and the power of His Christ for the accuser of our brethren who accused Him before our God day and night, has been cast down."

Satan is cast out of heaven but he's still to some degree has access to heaven. You read in Job where Satan comes from the earth. At the crucifixion, he's cast down again or cast out a second time and he's now bound to this earth, waiting for final destruction that happens following the judgement at the end.

Pastor Doug: Hopefully, that helps a little bit Barbra. If you'd like, we have a lesson that deals entirely with this subject and it's talking about the millennium. A Thousand Years Of Peace talks about when Satan was cast out and also, Did God Create The Devil? Both lessons encompass it. We'll send you a free copy of that if you'd like.

Pastor Ross: The number is 800 835 6747, you can ask for the study guide Did God Create The Devil? and A Thousand Years Of Peace, we'll send that out. Next caller is David, and David is listening on WMCA from Connecticut. David, you're on the air.

David: Yes, I am, how are you tonight?

Pastor Doug: Doing well, and your question?

David: My question, it's going to take a little bit of time. In Genesis 12 where it talks about God calling out Abraham, or as he was called Abram. He's called him out, said, "I'm going to bless you greatly, your seed's going to be as numerous as the stars, as the sand of the sea." He established a covenant with him and that covenant basically was inherited by his son and the nation of Israel and all their tribes.

Now, in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. God basically says that, "If you obey what I commanded you, you'll be blessed but if you break the covenant, you'll be cursed." Then when we get to the Messiah, He actually -- I looked up the word "kainos," it actually says new as in freshness. Basically, from what I'm gathering that covenant wasn't replaced, it was actually renewed through the blood of Christ.

From what Hebrews' Chapter 8 was saying, the only change that was taking place was the fact that where the commands were written in. Instead of having the Torah written in scrolls and tablets, they're written in the mind and the heart of the believer. Am I misunderstanding this or is there a theology that I'm not aware of?

Pastor Doug: I might word things a little different in saying that the new covenant, it is true that it is especially written on the heart. It's the same law written in a new place. It's expanded you might say. Romans 1:16, "The salvation of God to everyone that believes to the Jew first and also the Greek," meaning the Gentile. The covenant expanded from Abraham to include the spiritual seed of Abraham, which is anyone who believes in Christ.

Now, David, I hate doing this but the clock is about to drive us off the air. Can I send you a free book? That book is The Spiritual Israel-


Pastor Doug: - and we'll send you a copy. I hope you can still hear me, David. Call our number and ask for Spiritual Israel, we'll be happy to send that to you free of charge. Friends, it sounds like we're heading off the air, God bless you. We'll look forward to hearing from you again next week.

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