Moved By The Hand Of God

Date: 01/14/2007 
In 1874, Methodists in Swan Quarter, North Carolina decided it was time to construct a permanent church building. The homeless Christians found, what they believed was an ideal site for their church, a perfect lot in the heart of town on its highest ground.
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Hello friends, this is Doug Batchelor, how about an amazing fact? In 1874, Methodists in Swan Quarter, North Carolina decided it was time to construct a permanent church building. The homeless Christians found, what they believed was an ideal site for their church, a perfect lot in the heart of town on its highest ground. But when they approached the owner of the lot, Sam Sadler, he did not want to waste his prime real-estate for a church. Even after their offer was increased, Sadler flatly refused to sell the land. Soon after the Methodists accepted a gift of land a mile away on some low laying property, the members cheerfully began building a modest but sturdy structure resting on brick piers.

Then something miraculous occurred that has been confirmed by scores of witnesses. On September 17, 1876, right after they dedicated the small church, a powerful hurricane began to brew. Rain fell and the wind blew until the rising water lifted the little Methodist church from its foundation and began to carry it like Noah’s ark up the street. People awoke the next morning to witness an amazing site, the entire church was floating down oyster creek road. A few good Samaritans saw the drifting church and tried to tie it off with ropes, but it broke its moorings and continued to journey as though it had a mind of its own. It went straight down the road to a corner and bumped into a general store, then it took a sharp right turn and headed down that road for about 2 city blocks, until it reached, what is the corner of now, “Church street”.

Then it took another left turn, crossed the caravan canal and stopped. The little church had now settled exactly in the center of the property the members had originally requested for their house of worship, the parcel Sam Sadler had refused to sell the church. After seeing the mighty work of providence, Mr. Sadler, with trembling hands, gave the title deed for the land to the Methodist pastor. And when the church was dedicated years later, it was called, “Providence”. Today, a sign stands in front of the Providence church reminding visitors that this was the church moved by the Hand of God. Many people are wondering if the Hand of God is still leading His church today. Stay with us friends, and we’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answer Live.


Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends to a fresh edition of Bible Answers Live, this is a live interactive, international Bible study, and we invite people to participate. You can listen in as we search the word together, you can call in with you Bible questions, we still have lines open, now is a good time to pick up the phone if you’d like to get your question on tonight’s 1 hour program. And that number is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. And you can participate by praying for us, as we answer these live questions, it’s something of an adventure, a safari in the scriptures, we never know exactly what the questions are going to be, and we just pray that using the Bible, and the Bible resources at our fingertips, we can claim the promise “If we seek, we will find”. And we always like to begin this program with a word of prayer, Pastor Jëan Ross is doing mission work right now, out of the country, and so you all pray for Pastor Doug as I attempt to negotiate the phones and the Bibles here, and so let’s pray together.

Loving Lord, thank you again for your blessings, thank you for the truth that sets people free. I pray right now that the words that we study and we speak will be spirit and life that will transform the listeners. So please bless this broadcast for your own names sake, and it’s in that name we pray, amen.

Well at the beginning of our program, we told an amazing fact about a floating church, and to this very day, you can go there to Oyster Creek, in Swan Quarter, North Carolina, and you can see the site where this church was moved by the hand of God from its low lands, to the high ground that it originally wanted, and just placed there, just is a miraculous story. And some are wondering, is God still leading His church today? There’s so many churches that disagree, is there a way to know what church is the truth? Does it matter what church you belong to? Then there are other who say that the time, the era of the church is dead and we don’t need to belong to any church anymore, or belong to any organization, as long as you’re a Christian in your heart. What is the truth about this important subject? We must get our answers from the word of God, the Bible must be our guide, the word of Christ, and how we serve Christ.

We have a free offer tonight that will help you to better understand this important subject of what is the role of the church? Can we know how to identify the church the Lord is leading us to? What are the criteria biblically, that we’re to use. Very important study guide, it also comes from prophecy, and it’s called, “The Bride of Christ”, this is free, it’s a beautifully illustrated study guide filled with amazing facts and scripture, and we’ll send it to you just for the asking. If you don’t have this, you really ought to take advantage of this free offer. And there’s no gimmicks, there’s no trick, no bamboozling, we’re just going to send you something that will bless your heart, and enrich your soul. The number for the free offer, get a pencil, that number is 1-800-835-6747, one more time, 1-800-835-6747, tell them you’re requesting the free offer, “The Bride of Christ”, to better understand this subject of the church in the world today.

We are only going to take 1 internet question tonight because it’s something of a broad one. A person is asking about an experience they find in Genesis Chapter 12 and its verses 9-20, and it’s where Abraham goes into Egypt, and he claims that his wife Sarah or Syria was her original name, is really his sister, and he basically lies. And then you have a similar story where in Genesis 20:1-18, Abraham tells Abimelech, King of the Philistines, that “Sarah is his sister”, and they’re wondering, “Is this one story that’s told 2 different ways or is it 2 separate events where one gives more detail?” Well they’re obviously 2 separate occasions. One, it tells us that Abraham went to Egypt and he told the Pharaoh that “Sarah was his sister”, and then the other time, it’s in the land of the Philistines, and he told the Philistines King Abimelech. There were frequent famons, so I think both occurred during times of famon, but Sarah must have been an absolutely gorgeos striking woman, because not only Abraham, but Isaac with his wife Rebecca, they were fearful that they would be killed so that others could take their wives.

These women that came from the line of Sham and the descendants of Terra were evidently very beautiful women, there could have been something where the people living there in Canaan were more (inaudible 9:02) and these may have been fair skin, blue eyed girls that they found attractive, that they wanted in their harem, we’re not exactly sure, but evidently, Abraham was so afraid that he would be killed and they would just take his wife, even when Sarah was over 60 years of age, of course they aged more slowly then, that he would lie and say, “She’s my sister” where she was actually indeed his half-sister, but the fact he did not divulge that Sarah was his wife, that was less than the truth and a half truth is a hole lie, so Abraham got in trouble for doing that.

Anyway, hope that helps a little bit with that question, it’s probably time for us to take some phone calls. And so we’re going to begin, and we’re starting out talking Greg who’s calling from Kansas City, listening on the internet. Welcome to the program Greg, you’re on the air. Greg are you there? You’re on Bible Answers Live.

Greg: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi Greg, how you doing?

Greg: Pretty good. I had a question here on Israel,

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Greg: and looking in Ezekiel and it looks to me like they’re conditional.

Pastor Doug: Ezekiel, what prophecies about Ezekiel?

Greg: Well, from probably Chapters 37 and on, especially with bones.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Greg: And because of Israel’s failure to accept Christ as the lamb, and because of Steven’s stoning, as a nation, I know that Israel no longer has prophecies, but at the same time you look at Ezekiel, is there something that we are seeing Israel as being spiritual at this time?

Pastor Doug: Well let me give you something to think about, to understand these Old Testament prophecies about the nation of Israel. At the time of Christ picture Israel as an olive tree, this is an illustration that Paul uses in the book of Romans.

Greg: Right.

Pastor Doug: At the time of Christ, many of the branches of that olive tree were pruned back, and in their place, the gentile branches were grafted in. now the stock is all the original stock of Israel. Matter a fact, every Christian has this faith rooted in the constitution of Judaism and Israel. It’s a Jewish Bible that we’re reading you know what I’m saying?

Greg: Right.

Pastor Doug: the laws and the foundation of the plan of salvation, Jesus Himself, it’s all Jewish.

Greg: Right.

Pastor Doug: But what happened at the time of Christ, is that the gospel basically, it blossomed and pollinated everywhere. Pentecost is when that happen, when Jews from every nation took the gospel back to their countries and it began to defuse about the time of Steven to the gentiles.

Greg: Right.

Pastor Doug: So the prophecies about Israel now are much broader than just one nation. Bible says, “If you are Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed. He is not a Jew which is one outwardly, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly”, and it’s not circumcision of the flesh but circumcision of the heart. There’s so many statements in the New Testament that tell us that these prophecies about Israel, we’re really looking at a wider audience than just one nation. Now I believe, still God has a role for the nation of Israel specifically, and that, you know obviously they’re a unique country from every other country, and that the Jewish people were conquered, scattered, displaced for 1900 years, and then they get back, they’re saying, “Geography”, and they still have their language and their culture. That’s just, there’s no other nation in the world that’s happened to.

Greg: Right.

Pastor Doug: So they stand out for that reason. But most of the prophecies you’re going to find now in the Old Testament that are future for Israel or speaking of Spiritual Israel.

Greg: Right. Well because when I look at Ezekiel 37, and that one time I’ve seen this before where the valley of the bones, someone has said something, I forgot it, about a spiritual nature of that if we’re Israel even for ourselves, that we have lost our way or, and that he will revive us.

Pastor Doug: Well yeah, I’ve used Ezekiel 37 to preach on revival many times, but Ezekiel 37 really was fulfilled. Follow me, Ezekiel prophesied form Babylon.

Greg: Okay.

Pastor Doug: The children of Israel had been carried away he prophesied that though they look like a valley of dead bones, they would come back to life. The captivity, the remnant did go back to Israel and they were revived as a nation. So Israel’s done this more than once, where they dispossessed and they came home again.

Greg: Right.

Pastor Doug: Matter a fact they did it 3 times,

Greg: (inaudible 14:03)

Pastor Doug: Egypt, Babylon, and the Roman version.

Greg: Right. Now at the same time, when you get into 38 and 39 with Gog and Magog. Now is that something that’s still future?

Pastor Doug: Yes because Revelation, you read about Gog and Magog in Revelation Chapter 20, I’m sorry, Chapter 20, yeah. That is still future, and Gog and Magog, they were ancient enemies of Israel and they represent the wicked in the last days. You know what I’d like to do because you’re asking me to study?

Greg: Yeah, because I’d like to… if you have something that I’d

Pastor Doug: I do.

Greg: on scholarly or theological level.

Pastor Doug: Well I’ve got 2 things that I think you’ll really appreciate. One is a book that I wrote with a fellow Jew called, “Spiritual Israel”, and it really will help understand some of these prophecies of Israel. The other is dealing with this subject of Gog and Magog, it’s a lesson that we have on “The Millennium”, and if you call the Amazing Facts number, and let me give you, you have a pencil?

Greg: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Its 1-800-835-6747, ask for our study guide on the… well ask for the booklet on “Spiritual Israel”, we’ll send that to you. And we also have a booklet on “The Millennium”, just ask for that and they’ll know what that is. Hey I hope that helps a little Greg. Big question, whenever you get into Ezekiel, I can always count on it being pretty deep.

We’re going to talk next to Marvin who’s been waiting patiently, listening on Spokane, Washington, 3ABN. Welcome Martin you’re on the air.

Marvin: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Thanks, and your question?

Marvin: My question is about Jesus when He said, do we take that (inaudible 15:44) when He said (inaudible 15:48-15:50)? Do we take that as a, in other words, nobodies good? Because He said, “Only the Father in heaven is”.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, you find that in Mark Chapter 10, well actually it’s in Mark 10, Matthew 19, and Luke 18, it’s the story of the rich young ruler. And when he 1st comes to Jesus, he says, “Good Master, what shall I do that I might have eternal life? And Jesus says, “Why call us thou may good, there is non-good but one and that is God”. Christ was saying that, “All men have sinned” and that is true, that is literal. Christ was not denying his goodness, He said, “The only one who is really good is God”. What He’s doing, is giving a clue that He is God, if He really is good. And the Bible says, “Every good and perfect gift comes from God”, Jesus must be “God”. So He wasn’t denying His divinity, He was revealing that He is good, and therefor He must be God. Hope that helps a little bit Marvin, appreciate your question. Going to try and get a few before our break. Talking to Joseph next, Joseph is calling from New York, listening on WMCA. Welcome to the program Joseph. Are you there joseph? I hear someone coming to the phone.

Joseph: Hello?

Pastor Doug: Yes, you’re on the air.

Joseph: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi.

Joseph: Sir, I understand that in the Old Testament there are 613 laws.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I’ve not done the count, but I’ve heard that before, I’ve hear variant numbers pretty close to that.

Joseph: And there were also 613 bones in the human body. Do you think that’s a coincidence or do you think the laws were made to conform the number of bones in the human body?

Pastor Doug: Well I would, I think I heard somebody say that once before, my wife’s a physical therapist. I didn’t know there were 613 bones in the human body, but I think I heard somebody say that before now that you mentioned it. I don’t know what the spiritual application would be or what the purpose for that is why God would have the laws in the Bible match up with the bones in our body. You know I wouldn’t draw that conclusion. And just so you know, different rabies that counted the Old Testament laws, they came up with different numbers, because some laws they said were 2, and other laws they said “well it 2 ways of saying the same law”, so not even all the rabies agree on that number.

Joseph: Do you think it might just be a coincidence?

Pastor Doug: I think it’s just a coincidence.

Joseph: Okay.

Pastor Doug: I bet you can find other things that have got 613 in the world, and I wouldn’t match it up with the law.

Joseph: I guess you can. Okay, thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you very much Joseph, appreciate your question.

You know I, some people are very intrigued by numbers. For instance, there used to be a highway in New Mexico, highway 666, I lived right near it, and it was, you know, they lined up the highways in North America, north and south, east and west, and there was actually a method to the madness of how they numbered them, and they finally came to highway number 666. Well people were so superstitious about that highway that they’ve changed the name of the highway. So you know, numbers are number, and I don’t think we should always try and read something into it.

Alright we’re going to next talk to David who’s calling from Richmond, Virginia, listening of KFIX. Welcome David you’re on the air.

David: Hello?

Pastor Doug: Hi, and your question?

David: I want to know, can the devil see people when they die?

Pastor Doug: Alright good question. Can the devil see people once they die? Well the Bible says, “The living know they’ll die”, and this is Ecclesiastic Chapter 9, “The living know they’ll die, the dead know not anything”. And so when dead people die, the devil, you know, there’s a lot of paintings and comics that show the devil standing in red leotards with a pitch fork and horns, and he is in charge of hell, and he’s roasting the lost people, and the souls. Nothing in the Bible tells us that the devil is in charge of hell, not one iota. Matter a fact, in Revelation 20, it says, “Satan is going to be cast into hell”. There’s nothing in the Bible that tells us that the devil has charge over souls when they die. There’s nothing in the Bible that tells us that he communicates with them when they die. What the devil does do, and this is what confuses people David. The devil’s god a lot of fallen angels that work under him, they’re sometimes called “Demons and evil spirits in the Bible”. They will sometimes mascaraed at a scions or when working with a medium, they’ll mascaraed, they’ll pretend to be dead people. And even when I was a kid, I used to fool around with witchcraft, I didn’t know any better, and we would have these scions, and try to you know, bring back from the dead Abraham Lincoln or some famous dead person, and you know, poor Abraham Lincoln probably never got any rest if the devil was able to bring him back at a scions, because everybody’s doing it. So it’s not the devil, it’s usually his demons, evil spirits that are manipulating people that way. “The dead don’t know anything until the judgment”, that’s what the Bible says. The next conscious thought of the dead is the resurrection and the presence of the Lord, or resurrection for judgment.

David: So he can’t see the dead?

Pastor Doug: No. well I men, he can look at their bodies, but they’re not running around under his control.

David: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Okay?

David: Okay thank you Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Hey we’ve, I’ve got a lesson, you know let me send you the lesson ,it’s free David, do you have a pencil?

David: Okay, yeah.

Pastor Doug: Just call this number I’m going to give you. Its 1-800-835-6747, that’s 1-800-835-6747, ask for the lesson, “Are the Dead Really Dead, Are the Dead Really Dead?” Matter a fact, anybody listening, if you’d like a copy of that, you can call for that right now. Appreciate your call.

And next we’re going to be talking with Lana who’s calling from Springfield, Illinois, listening on KJSL. Welcome Lana you’re on the air.

Lana: Yes Pastor Doug, it’s great to talk to you,

Pastor Doug: Likewise.

Lana: I got really blessed. My question is, it pertains to the 10 commandments.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Lana: And it’s about, okay what was that 12 by day and the pillar of fire by night that they was lead across to the Promised Land, what was it? Because I’m confused by that, I mean it really fascinates me.

Pastor Doug: Well, it evidently came up when the temple was erected, that pillar came up from the holy of holies, it hovered over the holy of holies, which was a symbol for the presence of God. But the pillar was leading them before they ever built the temple, pillar was leading them when they crossed the Red Sea. That pillar is a symbol for the Spirit. Now keep in mind, in 1st Corinthians Chapter 10, it tells us that when the children of Israel went through the red sea, that was a symbol for water baptism, and Paul says they were Baptized in the sea, like water, and in the cloud like the Spirit. So the children of Israel were led by the cloud which was a symbol of the Holy Spirit. And so sometimes the Spirit is symbolized by fire, as in Pentecost tongues of fire appeared on the heads of the disciples. Sometimes it’s like a wind, it says, “There was a mighty wind”. The Holy Spirit is one of the more nebulous persons of the God head for us to imagine or understand, because He doesn’t have the uniform form that a person does. But that Spirit was like the glory of God that was enshrouded. In the day, it was in a cloud that gave them shade, at night it would glow and illuminate the camp. But it was a symbol of the presence of God with them the glory of God.

Lana: I see.

Pastor Doug: What was in the cloud making it glow?

Lana: Yes.

Pastor Doug: I don’t know, I don’t know. Something was there I mean it could have been angels, like the angels that those wise men, those magi that followed the star that was obviously not a planet because it was leading them right to a certain stable. And so it was a band of angels probably, that they were following, that were the same angels that appeared to the shepherds and filled the sky with light. It may have been the angel of the Lord in that cloud that was illuminating it. I’ll get to heaven and that will be one of my questions.

Lana: Okay,

Pastor Doug: Alright, I appreciate that good question.

Lana: Thank you and I hope to meet you someday.

Pastor Doug: Likewise.

Lana: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: God bless.

That frees up a line friends, if you’ve got to call we have several line opened if you have a question rather. And that phone number once again, to get to the studio, is a different number then our resource number. If you want to get your question on the air tonight, just dial 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297, and we go to the Bible for our answers.

Alright, next going to talk with Jay, who’s calling from New York, New York, also listening on WMCA. Welcome to the program Jay.

Jay: Welcome Pastor Doug, I like your television show.

Pastor Doug: Well thank you.

Jay: One of the things I wanted to ask was, I was watching the film “Inherit the Wind” the other day, and Spencer Tracy was asking (inaudible 25:21) when he was, you know, having as a witness about Joshua making the sun stand still.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Jay: Because he said, ‘how can he make the sun stand still, because in those days, they probably thought that the sun revolved around the earth”, and he said, “Well what happened is that (inaudible 25:33-25:25) to the air, and then what happened was the earth would turn into a cinder and crash into the sun.

Pastor Doug: Yeah that… now for our friends who are listening, the classic movie called, “Inherit the Wind” is based on what they call the “Monkey trial, or the scopes trial”, where evolution was being debated years ago and it was a very historic trial. And one of the questions that the judge was mocking or the attorney was mocking Christianity by saying, “How could the sun literally stand still?” And he began to think about all the geological things that would go wrong if that happened. Is that what your question is?

Jay: Yes, because you know, like I was watching (inaudible 26:06) and she said that “The Bible has a lot of errors”.

Pastor Doug: No. alright let me give you something to think about. You and I can’t think of, physiologically, you know, how our world could stop turning at the speed it’s presently turning without sending everybody through centrifugal force flying of the planet so to speak, and just cause great cause. But just suppose for a moment, when the sun stands still. To our knowledge, is there any life in our solar system other than earth?

Jay: Not to my knowledge.

Pastor Doug: Not to my… I don’t believe there is, we haven’t found any evidence after all of our probes went out. So the earth is spinning at a certain rotational speed in order for the sun to appear to stand still. God could begin if He wanted to, to suddenly revolve the sun in a geocentric orbit at the same speed as the earth if He wanted to could he?

Jay: Yes He could.

Pastor Doug: That would mean there’ll be no change in the rotation speed of the earth, see what I’m saying?

Jay: Yes.

Pastor Doug: So there’s a thousand ways God can do it. God could also make people see something if He wants to, and make it a reality. You got the time in the Bible, Jesus rises from the dead and His disciples don’t know Him until He’s ready for them to know who He is. The Lord made a whole nation and a whole army go to sleep when David came to get Saul’s spear, I mean everybody was in a deep sleep and it was supernatural. How the Lord does something like that? I mean we’re humans, He has a thousand ways to do that where we can’t think, you know in our science, how He does it. But for that matter, how does Jesus take a dead body like Lazarus and raise him? Can we scientifically explain that?

Jay: No we can’t.

Pastor Doug: So our minds are so finite compared to the infinite power of God. God’s laws are subject to Him, He’s the one created the laws of science and nature, and if He ever wants to, He can adjust them for His purposes. So when it said “The sun stood still”, I believe that. And if I’m not mistaken, there are even record in ancient where the astrologers said, “There was an inexplicable day when the sun stood still”, and not only did it happen in the time of Joshua, it went backwards in the day of Hezekiah, and it was noted by the Babylonians, and they even sent ambassadors to say, “What caused this heavenly sign? You remember that?

Jay: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Sun went backwards in the days of Hezekiah, you find that in Ezekiel… I’m sorry, in Isaiah, and in 2nd Kings.

We’re going to have to take a break Jay, thank you for your question. And if you do have a question friend, you can still call we have some time for the 2nd half of our program coming up. Free phone call, it’s 1-800-463-7297 to get your question on Bible Answers Live. Keep a pencil handy, we’re also giving out some free offers when we have questions that draw for some of our resources, and that number is 1-800-835-6747. You also might jolt down our website, “”. And you know, while we’re at it, and we’re giving out great websites, can I tell you another interesting website where you can just listen to some encouraging messages. Type this in,, or .com and you’ll be blessed by the revival messages there. We’re going to be back in just a moment friends.


Pastor Doug: That would be me friends, Pastor Jean Ross is currently out of the country doing some mission work in the Caribbean, and if you have a Bible question, that number again is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. If your call does not get through tonight, then I’d recommend you write down “”. If you go to the Amazing Facts website, you’ll also discover there, are a lot of archives of some of the most popular Bible questions that we get, some questions of course are repeats, and you might find your question there as you scan the archives and listen. But we’re going to go right back to the phones, and next we’re going to be talking with John who’s calling from Lakeport, California. Welcome to the program John, you’re on the air.

John: Yeah, are you there?

Pastor Doug: Yes, hi John, you’re on the air.

John: Yes. You’re familiar with Isaiah 65 verse 20?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

John: “No more shall an infant, those live but for a few days”. Now that’s a long particular verse but a part of that verse that bewilders me is where it says, “For the child shall die 100 years old”. Can you explain that to me?

Pastor Doug: Yes. Well I’ll do my best. If you look… 1st thing I want to establish, is if you look in Genesis, when the 1st genealogies began to be recited, you’ll notice that some of these patriarchs before the flood don’t even get married until they’re over a hundred years of age.

John: Okay.

Pastor Doug: And then gradually, we noticed that the age of marriage starts to drop down until, you know, it gets to where they’re getting married at 70, and then 60, and then 50. Abraham of course, you know, he didn’t have his 1st child until he was a hundred years of age, but even for him, that was seen like a miracle because Sarah was 90. But in, before sin, God still intended children to grow up, but they didn’t grow as quickly as they do now. So this verse I think has confused a lot of people, and part of it is, it’s not the best translation that has come through here. Let me give you another way that, that can be interpreted. The child will seize to be, or die being a child at a hundred years of age it’s not saying that the child’s suddenly going to die, because it wouldn’t make any sense, why would a child die at a hundred?

John: Are you saying that at a hundred years old back in Genesis times, they were still a child size…

Pastor Doug: Well they were still… no, well they were still were very young because they

John: (inaudible 33:53)

Pastor Doug: They lived 900 years and so it’s safe to assume they also did their growing more slowly. Now in heaven… keep in mind, in Genesis, when you’re reading about the age of children, there weren’t any children born until sin. In heaven there is no more sin. And so children of the resurrection are not going to grow up in, you know, 15 years. God says, “Look, they’ve got eternity, it’s going to be a hundred years before they seize being a child”.

John: I see.

Pastor Doug: So.

John: So they quit being a child.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, and so when it said, “The child will die”, the word “Die” there is often means “something stops, it ends, it seizes, it demises”. It’s saying that, you know “the days of my people will be like the days of a tree”. So here, Isaiah’s saying you know, “Trees live on and on, you don’t give them birthdays”.

John: No.

Pastor Doug: The children won’t even stop being children until they’re a hundred years of age. Die is, I think an unfortunate translation there, that word.

John: I see.

Pastor Doug: You know, if you put in the word “seize”, they won’t even seize being a child until a hundred years of age.

John: Okay. Do you have the Greek word for that by chance?

Pastor Doug: Well it’s Hebrew.

John: Hebrew I mean.

Pastor Doug: Yeah because this is Old Testament… well let me see, I think I’ve got, I think I’ve got it here, we’re talking about 20, the word is in Strong’s “Mooth, M.O.O.T.H” is the English translation of that. So you can look that up. The Strong’s number is 4191.

John: I see, okay.

Pastor Doug: Take a look at that and…

John: I have that concordance.

Pastor Doug: Alright, hey I hope that will help a little bit.

John: Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: God bless you John.

Alright, next we’re going to be talking with Thomas calling from Downy, California. And let me make sure I get the right number, you there Thomas? Thomas is listening on the internet, you’re on the air Thomas.

Thomas: Yes, how are you Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: Very well, how are you doing?

Thomas: Thank you sir. I had a question for you, and I know that a lot of the new age pastors are preaching the fact that we are no longer bound by the Old Covenant.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Thomas: And I know these, that we, Jesus doesn’t fail, God’s word does not fail, but man has failed. When it comes to God’s original covenant, what text or scriptures can you give to me so that I would know what to know the difference between the Old and the New Covenant?

Pastor Doug: Well before you, before we go any farther, and I forget about it. We’ve got a booklet I’ll also send you, which is called “Why the Old Covenant Failed by Joe Cruz, Why the Old Covenant Failed”. Have you ever seen that?

Thomas: No I haven’t.

Pastor Doug: It’s a great study I mean everyone should have that. Now keep in mind friends, the Old Covenant was, it tells us the 10 commandments written on stone, and you find specifically what the Old Covenant is in Deuteronomy Chapter 4, and the Chapter 5 it’s outlined. The New Covenant, the Lord says, “I will give them a New Covenant”, this is Jeremiah 31, and Hebrews Chapter 8, “A New Coven I will make with the house of Israel, I will write my law on their hearts”. So the difference between the Old and the New Covenant is not the law, God’s law, He didn’t abolish His law, because the penalty… sin is the transgression of the law. Jesus came to save us from our sins He didn’t come to give us permission to sin. What He did is, He says, “He now writes His law in a new place”. The Covenant is still the same law but it’s not written on stone, it’s written on the heart.

Thomas: Right.

Pastor Doug: And so, you know, this is the big difference, some of… I heard you referred to them as “New age preachers”, but you’re right. A lot of pastors now are saying, “The New Covenant means we don’t need to keep His law anymore”. Well that’s outrageous when you think about it, because Jesus said in Matthew Chapter 5:17 “Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets, I have not come to destroy, but fulfill whosoever therefor will break one of the least of these commandments, and teach men so, he’ll be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever shall do and teach them will be called great”. And so Jesus said, “Don’t think I’ve come to abolish the 10 commandments, I came to keep it, or fulfill it in my life. Fulfill doesn’t mean do away with, it means to feel full. So go ahead.

Thomas: Yeah one of the questions… would you believe in that by the New Covenant, that we are saved in by believing in Jesus Christ?

Pastor Doug: Well we’re always saved by faith, even Abraham was saved by faith. It says, “Abraham believed and he counted on to Him for righteousness”. The criteria of being saved did not change from the Old Testament to the New Testament. What I mean by that is the Old Testament they’re saved by the sacrifice of lambs. In the New Testament, it’s Christ the Lamb of God. It was faith in the Lamb that saves us, it is still faith in the Lamb, nobodies saved by works.

Thomas: Right, that is true. Well I will look forward to receiving that information.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Thomas: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Ask for that free booklet called, “Why the Old Covenant Failed?” And we also have a study guide you might request, called “Written in Stone”. Talks about the relationship between law and grace, “Written in Stone”, okay?

Thomas: Perfect. Okay, thanks for your help.

Pastor Doug: Thanks a lot Thomas.

Alright where are we going next? Alright, we’re going to talk to Jim, who’s listening on line 2, from Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, on WDNX. You’re on the air Jim.

Jim: Yeah, thank you brother, Pastor Batchelor, we prayed from you when you went to India by the way.

Pastor Doug: Well thank you, your prayers were answered, we made it safely home.

Jim: Well thank you. I have a question that relays to my heart pretty good here, okay?

Pastor Doug: Alright.

Jim: Actually I’m a preacher, and I’m trying to find out the truth about what you said a few, or back as for Jesus being God.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Jim: If so, which I can’t confess it that way because I’ve never said in the that He is. I’m going to give you one scripture that tells me why can’t, and that’s verse John 4:15.

Pastor Doug: 1st John 4:15.

Jim: Can I say it?

Pastor Doug: Yeah go ahead.

Jim: Okay, “Any spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God”.

Pastor Doug: okay.

Jim: Alright, the Son of God all through it, one in another, one I don’t know where, but it does… “Neither I nor the angel, but my Father in heaven know the end of time”. So here’s…

Pastor Doug: So is your question really is Jesus God?

Jim: Is Jesus the Son of God, or is He God?

Pastor Doug: When Christ rose from the dead and the 2nd time he appeared to the disciples, Thomas was there.

Jim: Yeah, my Lord and my God.

Pastor Doug: And Jesus said… Yeah, he looks at Jesus, and he says, “My Lord, and my God”.

Jim: Okay. And I’ll say what I think that is?

Pastor Doug: Sure.

Jim: I’ll say yeah, I think that’s the glory of the Father in Christ.

Pastor Doug: Alright, well let’s look at it this way. Genesis Chapter 1, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, correct?

Jim: Okay, alright.

Pastor Doug: Then you read in 1st John, “All things that were made, were made by Him”.

Jim: Him.

Pastor Doug: And the Bible says… that’s one example. Another definition for God is it says, “We should not worship anyone but God”, that’s one of the 10 commandments.

Jim: Yes (inaudible 41:36).

Pastor Doug: But the disciples worshipped Jesus.

Jim: Yeah, and He also said, “My commandments” didn’t He? The point is, why isn’t if that’s the case (inaudible 41:50) also, where He says, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. Our, being like them, you know, there’s 2 there, there’s all 3 actually. But now here’s my real question to you, on the God Head. If you have your question to that, if you give me an answer, would be that He’s God, my, I say that He’s the Son of God. I’ll go to the judgment seat, to Him saying that and…

Pastor Doug: Well here’s a question now.

Jim: My question was, who’s wills being down through the whole Bible, say that’s why.

Pastor Doug: Alright, my answer to that, is there is not conflict between Jesus being the Son of God, and being God. I am the Son of George Batchelor, but I’m also a Batchelor just like he was. What I mean by that is… that could be confusing because of my name. What I mean by that, is a son is often the essence of the Father, and so the fact that God calls Jesus His Son, and it says that He is a “perfect reflection”, there’s no conflict calling Jesus God, the disciples did. And when you look at the characteristics of God in the Bible, the Bible says that, “God and God only knows the thoughts in our hearts. Well Jesus often knew the thoughts of their hearts. The Bible tells us, “God can only forgive sin”. Well Jesus forgave sin, He must be God. The Bible says that, “Only God is our savior”. Well Jesus is called our savior, so He must be God. As you line up the definitions of God in the Bible, Jesus fulfills all of those definitions, and so, you know, the obvious conclusion is, “Yes, He’s the Son of God, and he is God too”. So, you know what I’d like to recommend Jim? Is there’s a booklet, and you can read it on the internet, just go to the Amazing Facts website. Last time I recommend this, it wasn’t there, and we check with our I.T department and they put it back up again. It’s called, “Is the Trinity Biblical?, Is the Trinity Biblical?”. A whole section in there goes through “Is Jesus God?” And I’d invite you to read that, go to “, or .org”, and under the free library, you’ll find that booklet, hope that helps you.

Next, talking with Raymond on line 3, I got to say, that so I won’t mess up, and Raymond is calling on WMCA, New York, welcome Raymond.

Raymond: Hello Pastor Douglas.

Pastor Doug: Hi.

Raymond: How are you sir?

Pastor Doug: Very well and how are you?

Raymond: I’m doing pretty good, thank God.

Pastor Doug: Praise the Lord, your question?

Raymond: Okay I don’t need to have a question that I told the operator, what I have is…

Pastor Doug: You’re not going to start preaching, are you?

Raymond: No, it’s a classification. A couple of weeks ago, someone called and ask a question regarding Elizabeth and Mary if they were relatives?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Raymond: And then in Luke 1:36, it clearly states that they were cousins.

Pastor Doug: Yes. You know I remember that. Last week, when that question came in, I thought

Raymond: Right.

Pastor Doug: to myself, “Doesn’t it say that Elizabeth is her cousin?” But the questioner, you know, cast some shadow on that, and I thought “I better be careful and double check”.

Raymond: okay.

Pastor Doug: Sometimes, you know, as I get older, I’m wondering, “Did I imagine something, or did I actually read it?”

Raymond: Okay sir.

Pastor Doug: No I appreciate that, I certainly don’t have omniscience about the Bible.

Raymond: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Thank you very much, appreciate that comment, God bless you Raymond.

Alright, now we’re going to give Anthony a chance, who’s been waiting… calling also from WMCA, on New York. Your question Anthony?

Anthony: Yes, I would like to ask you a question concerning the resurrection?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Anthony: Jesus said that as Jonah was in the Belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Anthony: So the Son of man must be in the heart of the earth, 3 days and 3 nights.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Anthony: WE all know that Jesus died on a Friday, so how is it that, you know, He was raised Sunday morning?

Pastor Doug: okay.

Anthony: And then it’s only, you know, like 2 days.

Pastor Doug: Good question. Do you have a pencil?

Anthony: Not available.

Pastor Doug: Alright, you’ll find one before the end of the program. I’ll send you a book, all you’ve got to do is call, no gimmicks involved, and I’ll send you a book called, “The Sign of Jonah”. I wrote a book where I go into this question in more detail, but now let me give you the answer, and ask for “The Sign of Jonah” after we hang up, okay?

Anthony: Okay.

Pastor Doug: And call the number. A lot of people assume when Jesus said… and that’s Matthew 12:40, “For as Jonah was 3 days, and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so the Son of man shall be 3 days, and 3 nights in the heart of the earth”.

Anthony: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Everyone automatically assumes, that heart of the earth there means “The tomb”, but they will not find anywhere else in the Bible, where the heart of the earth is called, “The tomb, or the grave”. The word there “Heart” means the cardiac, and the word earth is, “Of the world”. And so the way this really translates is, “As Jonah was in the whale’s belly, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the world”. Now when did Jesus begin suffering for our sins?

Anthony: When?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, was it when the nails actually pierced His hands? Or was it Thursday night when the mob began to abuse Him? Every night and Christ said 3 times in the Garden of Gethsemane, He said, “Now is the hour, now is the hour”. When Judas came with the mob and they tied Him up, was the 1st time in His life that He, an innocent person began to suffer for the sins of others. Thhursday night, that’s right after He inaugurated His sacrifice with the Last Supper. And He said 3 times, “Father not my will, Thy will be done”. When we pray thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven, we’re not talking about in the tomb are we? In earth means “In the world” right? So when Jesus says, “AS Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the whales belly, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth”. He meant, “For 3 days and 3 nights, He’d be in the clutches of the devil, He’d suffer for the sins of the world”, that suffering, that trial began Thursday night, it’s not talking about the tomb, everyone assumes that, and it is an erroneous assumption. Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, He rose Sunday morning, 3 days, 3 nights He was suffering the penalty, which is punishment, and death, those 2 things together are the penalty. See the penalty for sin is not just death. The wicked don’t just die for their sins they suffer according to their works, correct? So just, it’s a common misunderstanding people make, that the heart of the earth must mean the tomb. Nowhere does Jesus say that.

Anthony: Yeah because I was trying to figure out like, you know, it always bothered me because…

Pastor Doug: Well you’re right, if you start Friday night, you don’t get 3 days and 3 nights no matter how you cut it.

Anthony: Yes.

Pastor Doug: But if we start Thursday night, and it is true, He began to suffer for our sins Thursday night, it’s a different story, it fits.

Anthony: Okay, thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you, and ask for that booklet, there’s a lot more there about Jonah that will make that subject clear. Appreciate your question very much.

Talking next with Melisa, who is calling on line 6 from Waterford, Michigan, listening on WMUZ. Welcome Melisa, you’re on the air.

Melisa: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi. Your question?

Melisa: MY question is, when evolutionist claim that we came from an ape or whatever they say, they also mention an ice age. I wonder, is an ice age biblical?

Pastor Doug: I believe so I think there’s not only geologic evidence for an obvious ice age, I think that there is biblical evidence. Before the flood the climate of the world globally was obviously different, not only do we know that from the Bible, because of course everything was a paradise before the flood, God did not have the harsh extremes in the world he made for Adam and Eve. But after the flood, the environment radically changed. One reason we know things were different before the flood. Is you can go up to Siberia in the north, dig down, and find oil and coal, and fossils of tropical ferns. You can find mastodons that froze very quickly, still chewing on greet vegetation, where these things haven’t grown in thousands of years, and same thing if you head down towards Antarctica, and other parts of the world. The whole planet had a much more uniform climate when there this envelope of water around the planet. But what happened is, after the flood, you can read there where it says, “God made a mighty wind pass over the earth, and it also talks about, in the days of Pelage, that the continents were divided, the earth was divided. We know that there are some tectonic plates that shift riding on mantle and water. Where the evolutionists are wrong is in their timing and their dates. There was probably a radical change in the climate after the flood, where the Polar Regions froze very quickly. You know how on a clear night it suddenly gets very cold in the winter, because there’s no moisture to hold the temperature in. after the flood, when the heavens were just about vacated from moisture... I mean right now, you look at a picture of planet earth, there’s lots of clouds floating around, but after the heavens were broken, and all the water basically dropped, it became very cold in the northern and southern extremes. And there was an ice age, it just did not take thousands of years, it happened over a period of probably hundreds of years, and then it gradually began to melt, and that’s when a lot of these mammals were rendered extinct.

Melisa: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug: There’s a period of time where it was very cold after the flood, and there was, I believe an ice age.

Melisa: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Alright, I hope that helps a little.

Melisa: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Now I’m not a geologist but that’s the Layman’s answer for that question, okay? Thank you very much for your question.

Alright, next were going to be talking with… let me look and see, who’s been waiting patiently. Michael is calling on line 7, and calling from… how do you say that? Oldclor, Wisconsin? Michael you’re on the air. Michael?

Michelle: It’s supposed to be Michelle.

Pastor Doug: I’m so sorry.

Michelle: That’s okay.

Pastor Doug: You’re wondering, listening for your name. Yeah, you’re calling from WJLM right?

Michelle: Right.

Pastor Doug: Alright, and your question?

Michelle: I just want to know if… I know that when a person dies, they sleep in the grave, but I thought I had read that, their soul returns to God in heaven, and I wondered if that was true.

Pastor Doug: Well it is, what you read probably is in Ecclesiastic Chapter 12, where it says that, “When a person dies, the body returns to the dust as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it”. Now that is a very broad term that Solomon uses there for every living creature that dies, he’s not even distinguishing between good and evil, animal and man. Every living creature that dies, the breath of life, and the word that’s used there in Ecclesiastic 12, is “Roak”, and that means just, “Breath”, it’s the same word where God says, “Just breathe into Adams nostrils the breath of life”. God did not, you know, artificially push a spirit into his nose, it’s the breath of life that all creatures have, all creatures breathe. When they die, that breath of life returns to God who gave it, doesn’t say it’s a conscious ghost of any kind, and the dust, the body returns to the elements, it decomposes. So that statement has often been taken to mean, that there’s some kind of ethereal conscious butterfly that hoops out of people when they die and flies off to God, and waits for the resurrection when it can get its body, the Bible doesn’t teach that. Now the Bible does teach to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So if the resurrection is still future, and obviously the resurrection is future, John Chapter 6 says that 3 times.

Michelle: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So if the resurrection’s future, and if “the dead in Christ rise when Christ comes”, 1st Thessalonians 4, you still with me Michelle?

Michelle: I am.

Pastor Doug: Okay, if you are a Christian and you should suddenly die, and there’s no consciousness of time for you, your next conscious thought, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye is the resurrection and being with the Lord correct?

Michelle: Right.

Pastor Doug: So for all of the dead saved, their next conscious thought is the presence of the Lord, but for us in this world, we live in this dimension of time, it hasn’t happened yet.

Michelle: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So the idea that the saved are up there looking down on us so that they can interfere is not biblical, you don’t find any evidence for that. Lazarus was dead for 4 days, but when Jesus resurrected Lazarus, did Lazarus say, “Lord, why’d you bring me back down from heaven?” Or he didn’t say either, “Why’d you bring me up from hell?” Matter a fact, Jesus, when He resurrected Lazarus, he didn’t say Lazarus come down or Lazarus come up, He said, “Lazarus come forth”.

Michelle: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So people sleep a dreamless, unconscious sleep until the resurrection. Can I send you that booklet I offered earlier, it’s called, “Are the dead really dead”, would that be okay?

Michelle: Yeah, that’d be great.

Pastor Doug: You just call and ask for it, we’ll send it to you, give them your address. It’s 1-800-835-6747. And I hope that’ll help you a little bit.

Okay let me see here, we’re just about out of time. Let’s talk with David’s been waiting patiently on line 10. David we got about 2 and a half minutes, can we do your question?

David: (Inaudible 55:44)

Pastor Doug: You there David? Hi.

David: Right, my question is, how does the saints keep from sinning once probation closed?

Pastor Doug: Well I would say that the way anybody gets victory over sin, is through being dead to self and filled with Christ. Paul said, “I die daily and yet we’re born again everyday”, meaning that we don’t live unto self but we live unto God, and it’s, Paul said, “It’s I that live, but Christ that lives in me”. And the way that Christians walk with Christ now, that’s what keeps us from falling, is “we just abide in Him”, John Chapter 15. 1st John says, “If we abide in Him, whoever abides in Him sinneth not”, that means, we don’t live a life of sin if we are abiding in Christ. And so they will be sealed especially during the probation, so that their walk of abiding is going to be sealed in a special way, when that time comes and the plagues begin to fall, I think that’s the time you’re talking about, correct?

David: Right.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. So now’s the time for us to get in practice. Matter a fact, when Daniel was thrown to the lion’s den back in Daniel Chapter 6, King Darius said to him as he threw him in the den, he said, “Your God who you serve continually will deliver you”. Because Daniel had served God continually prior to that big test, he was consistent through the test, and that’s what we need to do, we need to learn through our daily exams right now, to be faithful in the little things, in that way, we can be assured that we will ultimately pass the big final that is coming.

Well listening friends, you hear the music sneaking up behind us, and we’re about out of time for this broadcast. Keep us in your prayers, this is a faith ministry entirely supported by listeners just like you. We’d love to hear from you, if you’ve been listening, we’ve never received a note or card, drop us a line, we’ll be giving you that address in just a minute. And also keep in mind a lot that we can’t fit into this program, we are able to get on our website, go there, “”, there’s a virtual tree of life of information, videos, and T.V, and radio, and books, you’ll be glad you did. Remember, it’s about Jesus the truth who set’s you free.


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