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Great Birds of Prey

Date: 01/28/2007 
Great birds of prey have always filled man with admiration, even fear. There are many legends regarding stories of great birds snatching and flying off with large creatures like sheep or calves, but most of these accounts are purely fiction.
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Hello friends, this is Doug Batchelor, how about an amazing fact? Great birds of prey have always filled man with admiration, even fear. There are many legends regarding stories of great birds snatching and flying off with large creatures like sheep or calves, but most of these accounts are purely fiction. The largest raptors, vultures, are primarily carrion feeders and don’t have the ability for great feats of lifting. So man has generally blamed the great eagles, like the common golden eagle, for most stories. The largest golden eagle on record measured 41 inches in length and weighed in excess of 20 pounds with a wing span of eight feet. The maximum load for the average golden eagle is usually only between eight or ten pounds, but when birds have been disturbed at a kill and needed to make an emergency exit, then sometimes they seem to be able to haul much greater loads.

Most tales of children being carried off by eagles have been scoffed at by ornithologists, but there has been at least one case which apparently has been fully authenticated. In 1932, a four-year-old girl from the island of Leka, Norway was playing in the yard of her parent’s farmhouse when suddenly a huge white-tailed sea eagle--a relative of the golden eagle--swooped down, grabbed her by the dress and carried her off. The enormous bird tried to carry the girl who was apparently small for her age, back to its nest 800 feet up the side of a mountain more than a mile away, but the effort was too great and the poor child was dropped on a narrow ledge about 50 feet from the nest. One theory is that the bird had the advantage of the powerful up current of air coming from the ocean. A search party was organized by the desperate parents and they pinpointed the eagle soaring above its nest.

The girl was soon found in an unconscious state; except for some scratches and bruises she was unharmed. The fortunate girl, Svanhild Hansen, grew up happily and kept the little dress she wore that frightful day with the holes made by the eagle’s talons. It’s hard to imagine that an eagle’s wings could carry a little girl, but did you know the Bible teaches that a grown woman was carried by eagle’s wings? Stay with us friends. We’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live.”

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Perhaps you have always had a question about the Bible but you’ve never had the opportunity to ask. Well friends, ask that question now. We have some lines open. We’ll do our best to find the answers. Every broadcast we get a few new questions, but many of them we’ve heard before and we have some answers we can share with you. We’d love to do that, call right now. The toll free number is 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That translates to 1-800-463-7297. This is Bible Answers Live, an international, interactive Bible study. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends. Pastor Doug, let’s start with prayer. Dear Father, once again we thank You for this opportunity to open Your word. We thank You for the medium of radio, that we can have this national and international Bible study. We ask Your special blessing. Be with those listening and those that call in. Be with us here in the studio. In Jesus’ name we pray, amen.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, you started with an amazing fact about an eagle that picked up a little girl and carried her about a mile. Now there are many stories out there of people who have been abducted by eagles. This one seems to be the only one that has really been verified. When you spoke about that and then you ended by talking about the Bible describing a woman that was to be carried with the wings of eagles, obviously this isn’t a literal woman here, this has to be something symbolic.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, it is. And actually before I get to that, I want to thank Pastor Ross. He helped me find this amazing fact. We try to look up fresh ones each week and I saw this and thought, “Oh that’d be a great fact.” But in Revelation 12, it talks about this woman. She first appears in labor and a dragon is trying to devour her man-child that is ultimately born and caught up to God’s throne, and then it reveals this man-child is Christ. This woman has 12 stars above her head; she’s a type for the church. The leadership of the church, 12 tribes in the Old Testament, 12 apostles in the New Testament standing on the moon clothed with the sun.

Jesus said to the church, “You are the light of the world.” And later, the dragon tries to devour the woman with a flood that he sends out of his mouth. It says, by the way, I’m in Revelation 12:14 now, “But to the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, to a place where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the presence of the serpent," or the dragon. Now, it’s interesting when God wanted to save His church in the Old Testament, He took them into the wilderness and there He sustained them and He miraculously fed them, just as He feeds this woman in the wilderness. But then it gives you a unique time; a "time" which in the Bible represented one complete cycle of the seasons, a year.

A "times" was a pair, or a couple, and that meant two more so that’s three; and then half a time, three and a half. That time period of three and a half Jewish years adds up to forty-two months, or 1260 days. You find that time period given also two or three times in the book of Daniel as well...

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: ...a very important time period in prophecy. Would you like to understand what that three-and-a-half-year period is referring to? Who is this woman, what is this fulfillment of prophecy, and what do these eagle wings represent? We’d be delighted to send you the secrets to unlock this chapter for free, but you've got to call us.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have a free study guide called, “The Bride of Christ” that deals with Revelation chapter 12 and this woman clothed in white. To receive an Amazing Facts' study guide, just call the resource number and ask for the study guide by Amazing Facts, “The Bride of Christ.” The number is 1-800-835-6747. Pastor Doug, before we actually went on the air we were talking about in Revelation not only do you have this woman clothed in white in Revelation chapter 12 that’s carried on the wings of eagles, there is another woman described in Revelation chapter 13. She’s not carried on the wings of eagles, but you read later on in the chapter she gets eaten by eagles.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. I think she’s described actually more specifically in 17.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sorry, chapter 17, yeah, that’s right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: But she’s there in 13 too, right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Highlighted in 13, but 17 is really where it’s discussed.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, one is given wings of an eagle to be saved, the other one is later devoured by the--well they call them eagles in the Bible, but it’s the vultures.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Vultures, yeah.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, that’s right. That’s a good point.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Both have something in connection with this eagle or what this eagle might symbolize.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, we’ve got to make sure we know which woman. All people are connected with one or the other in last days, aren’t they?

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right. So we’ve got to know.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So, we’ve got to know what they represent. Send for that lesson.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got two internet questions that have come in. The first is, “I am puzzled about the genealogy of Jesus. In Matthew chapter 1, verse 16 it says that ‘Jacob begot Joseph, and Joseph was the husband of Mary, and of course he was a descendant of David.’ But Joseph was not the father of Jesus, so why was his bloodline brought into the genealogy of Jesus? Why is that significant?"

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, that is a very good point. You find the genealogy in Matthew chapter 1 and Luke chapter 3. In Luke 3 it starts with verse 23, “And Jesus himself being about thirty years of age, as being supposed the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli....” And what that’s really saying in Luke’s genealogy, it’s saying, “Joseph which was the son-in-law of Heli.” They believed that they’re tracing it through Mary’s father there, where in Matthew it’s being traced through Joseph’s father; because they’re two different people, it’s the only way you can reconcile that. So Jesus, either through Joseph or Mary, both Joseph and Mary were related to David. They’re both from the house of David.

Matter of fact, when they registered in Bethlehem for the census, they both went to Bethlehem because that was their native town. They’re both related to David and that was the city of David. I don’t know if I dare mention that there are some scholars that I respect and they say that when the Bible tells us that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that this was a supernatural conception. But Jesus obviously had--you know, when they looked at Jesus He no doubt looked Hebrew. In order to have a human, you’ve got both the male and the female chromosomes that co-mingle to make this new creature and God may have taken something of the essence of Joseph in that miraculous process and put it in Jesus, He could have done that. So we have no problem believing that, but it was a supernatural conception.

Pastor Jëan Ross: But either way you trace it through Joseph or through Mary…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It comes back to David.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …the Bible is true; He was the son of David.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: The son of David.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next question is, “I’ve had a lot of conflicting answers concerning John chapter 10, verse 16 where Jesus says, ‘I have sheep in other folds that haven’t heard My voice.” What does this verse mean, John 10, verse 16?"

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s a good verse. Now there are some very sincere Christian people who believe that Jesus was referring to another church in the Americas and that Christ was going to make another incarnation or appearance in North or South America, and they use this verse to support that. I respectfully disagree. I think Jesus is making a very simple reference here that God has His people among the Gentiles and that they were going to hear His voice and come into the fold. Of course shortly after His death and ascension to heaven, more precisely three and a half years after His death and ascension to heaven, there’s another three and a half, the Gospel went to the Gentiles and it was only one generation. There were many more Gentiles believing in Jesus than even Jews.

And then, of course, we also know when He spoke to the Samaritan woman, Naaman the leper, the widow of Zarephath, the Queen of Sheba, God has had other sheep that were not literal Jews that were His children; and so Christ was reminding them that there are others that will be in the kingdom besides people from a certain denomination, or even genetics.

Pastor Jëan Ross: God looks at the heart.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Let’s go to the phone lines. Our first caller is Mike and he’s calling from Brownwood, Texas. Mike, welcome to the program.

Mike: Thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I know where that is...

Mike: Yeah.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: ...and your question?

Mike: I’ll make it quick and short, but there's a conflict here about what is the right answer. When God comes down to raise the dead first, for an example, my mother. Is she already there with Him right now looking down, or does He raise all the dead, or is it just the dead that was before Jesus?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, alright, let me read a verse to you, 1st Thessalonians 4:16. I’m deliberately going to start with 16, then I’m going to back up to 13. I want you to notice something. “The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ will rise first.” So it tells us when Christ comes, the dead in Christ rise; now what are they being risen from? You look in verse 13, Paul says, “But brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant concerning those that are asleep, that you sorrow not, as others that have no hope.” Some people of course are dead and the Bible refers to this as sleep.

Jesus said in John chapter 11, “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth.” Lazarus was sleeping an unconscious sleep. When Jesus raised him up, he had no consciousness that four days had gone by. When a person dies in faith, their next conscious thought is the resurrection. That’s why Paul can say, “To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord.” It seems like a moment or a twinkling of an eye to them, like a dreamless sleep.

Mike: So what you’re saying right out of the Bible, it says that my mother right now is not aware of anything yet until He raises everybody?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. The Bible says, “We shall together go with the Lord,” in the last verses here.

Mike: So nobody is with the Lord right now?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, there are some exceptions of course, Moses and Elijah.

Mike: Right, right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: But the vast majority of the dead are sleeping until the resurrection. If they’re already there, then why does He need to come and wake them up for resurrection?

Mike: Well, because everybody is saying that it’s all the people before Jesus came down to earth, like Adam and Eve.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, let me give you an example. Kind David would be somebody who was there before Jesus came down, correct?

Mike: Right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: In Acts chapter 2 it says, “David is dead and buried and not ascended to heaven.” Now that’s unmistakable. That’s good King David who will be in heaven, a man after God’s own heart, the Bible says he’s dead. This is after the resurrection, Peter is preaching, Acts chapter 2. He says he’s dead, he’s buried, he’s not in heaven. If you go to 2nd Samuel it says, “David slept with his fathers.” So he’s still sleeping, but how long has it seemed for David? I mean, it has been 3,000 years for the history of the world, but for David, his next conscious thought, from the time he loses consciousness in this life, is coming out of the grave with the trumpet and getting a glorified body and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

Mike: So when we go up at the same time everybody that died, we’ll meet each other at the exact same time?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, let me read this to you here. It says, “Then we which are alive," I’m back in 1st Thessalonians 4, "and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds.” They're raised first, then we are caught up to meet them in the clouds.

Mike: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So the sequence is real clear. Also, if you read 1st Corinthians 15, it says, “They that are Christ's will be raised at His coming.” That's just as clear as it could be. So many people are so confused on this subject, it’s really sad. Hey, can I send you--I’ve got a whole lesson with color pictures and amazing facts on this subject Mike. Would you like a free copy?

Mike: Oh, I would love it. That would settle the dispute here.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: All you've got to do is make one phone call, and the lesson is called, “Are the Dead Really Dead?” and Pastor Ross will give you the number.

Mike: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Let me give you the number. The number is 1-800-835-6747. It’s an Amazing Facts' study guide, “Are the Dead Really Dead?” Very important subject.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yup.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Good questions are coming…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And for our friends that have the internet at their fingertips they can probably find that lesson at the Amazing Facts' website if they wanted to look at it or order one sooner.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright, next caller is Mackenzie. She is calling from Canada. Welcome to the program.

Mackenzie: Hi.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And your question Mackenzie?

Mackenzie: My question is in Genesis 33:3 where Jacob bows to Esau seven times before he goes up to him.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Mackenzie: I thought God says we’re not supposed to bow to any man or image but Him?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good question. Actually, the commandment does not say that we’re not to show reverence or not to respect anyone. It says, “You shall not worship.” And it’s one thing, for instance, if you go to Japan--here in America we shake hands--in Japan everybody bows slightly and they’ll bow varying degrees of depth depending on the office a person holds. In the army they might salute depending on what the rank is. There’s nothing wrong biblically with showing respect for people in positions of leadership. And Jacob was doing this because he had stolen his brother’s birthright that belonged to the oldest, the firstborn.

Now that he has come back home he’s repented of stealing his brother’s birthright; and to show that he was recognizing Esau’s leadership and that he didn’t want to take the-- and see, the firstborn used to get a double part of the father’s inheritance--Esau thought Jacob was coming home to try and steal his inheritance because Isaac was still alive. So what Jacob does is he sends a bunch of gifts to his brother to say, “Look, I’m not after the inheritance,” and then he bows before him seven times to emphasize “I am recognizing that you are the firstborn.” So it was an act of respect, it wasn’t worship.

Mackenzie: Does the…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now one more example, when Joseph’s brothers come to him, they also bowed to him. There are many examples of people bowing to kings of Israel, and it wasn’t considered worship. It’s just like we shake hands and it was a term of respect and greeting.

Mackenzie: Okay. Does the seven times represent anything, the number of times he bowed?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well that’s a good question. You know, in the Bible seven represents a complete cycle of time. Jacob was gone for three sets of seven. He was gone seven years working for a dowry for Rachel. He actually worked for Leah and didn’t know it; and then he worked seven more years for Rachel, and then he worked about seven more to get his possessions. And so when he comes back he bows seven times. That’s just interesting. I think it’s a sign of total repentance for what he’d done to his brother.

Mackenzie: Okay, thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, good question Mackenzie, never had that one before.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Tanya is listening on the internet calling from Henderson, Nevada. Welcome to the program Tanya.

Tanya: Good evening. I have a question regarding worship. I had maybe about a year and a half ago found the truth in terms of what day. I traditionally grew up worshiping on Sunday; and after finding the truth--and the Amazing Facts' ministry helped me do that--so thank you for that…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Praise the Lord.

Tanya: …I have spread the good news to my sisters and friends and they have found the truth also. The question that has been posed to me and I really wasn’t clear about the answer is, can they worship at home with their families, observe the Sabbath, but still do corporate worship on Sunday?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, good question. Now just for clarification, I know what you mean Tanya, but in case some out there don’t know what we’re talking about, Christians should really worship God every day. In our family, and I expect in Pastor Ross’s family, we have morning worship with the children and evening worship. The Bible says that even the people of Israel they had a morning and evening sacrifice. Daniel, morning, evening and at noon he prayed and worshiped God. But we’re talking about…

Tanya: It shows they observe the Sabbath.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: But we’re talking about the Sabbath day of worship, which is a different kind. One of the things that makes the Sabbath worship unique is if you look in Leviticus chapter 23, and Pastor Ross might help me find that verse, it calls the Sabbath a “holy convocation.” Now the word "convocation" means a “holy convening.” That’s where we get the word "convention" or "assembly." It means "a holy coming together." And so, if there is no Sabbath-keeping group where your friends or family live, then sometimes they may just gather as a family.

I used to live in a county in Texas where there were no other Sabbath-keepers around and what I did is I kept Sabbath with our family. Sometimes I'd drive 70 miles if we could afford the gas and we’d go to church in Lubbock, Texas. But I’d go worship with other Christians on Sunday just for the fellowship, but they knew biblically where I stood. Now, it’s important that people don’t get the wrong idea that you’re endorsing something you don’t really believe in and so, you know, God looks in the heart and the reason why you’re doing it. If you’re going for the fellowship to share truth and things, that’s one thing; if you’re going to recognize the first day of the week as the Sabbath, well the Bible doesn’t teach that. So, you see what I’m saying?

Tanya: Yeah.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Part of it is the motive of why you’re doing it.

Tanya: So there’s no biblical doctrine saying that you shouldn’t?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, no. In my church we get together every Tuesday night for prayer meeting at the church. So certainly there’s nothing with going to church seven days a week if you’ve got the time. But there’s only one day that’s really the Bible Sabbath that God has blessed as holy and that we are to keep sacred. See what I’m saying?

Tanya: And you said it’s Leviticus--what is the chapter?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Pastor Ross has it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s Leviticus chapter 23, and you’ll find many times it’s talking about not only the seventh day Sabbath, but here in chapter 23 it’s also including some of the ceremonial sabbaths that Israel kept.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: But the verse where it talks about…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Time and time again it talks about them as a holy convocation...

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: ...a gathering together, and it does include the Sabbath as well there in chapter 23.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, it’s verse 3, “Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, a holy convocation.” Just that word "convocation" means "a convening." Now, it is true, some of the Jewish ceremonial sabbaths, they would also come together for those. And, you know what else? If you look at the example of Jesus, it tells us in--I think it’s Mark chapter 2--that, “As his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day.”

Tanya: That’s what I’ve stated often.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. The word synagogue means “the gathering,” so it is a time to gather.

Tanya: And also the remnant church, is there a Scripture that says that God wants us to find a remnant church and be a part of that?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know, the lesson that we’re offering tonight actually talks about the remnant church. For our friends the word "remnant" means the "remainder," or God’s people in the last days. All through history God has saved a remnant. Noah and his family were a remnant of the people saved from those who lived before the flood. Abraham was a remnant that was called out from the people of the Tower of Babel. The children of Israel got carried off to Babylon, but He brought a remnant back, see what I’m saying? So remnants are like the remainders, the survivors, what’s left; and in the last days He’s going to have a remnant of faithful Bible Christians. That’s what we’re teaching about and hoping people will pick up on.

Tanya: Okay, great. Thank you so much. Your ministry has been a great blessing.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Praise the Lord Tanya. Appreciate your call.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Joseph is listening on WMCA from New York, New York. Joseph, welcome to the program.

Joseph: Thank you. Good evening.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good evening.

Joseph: Could you happen to guess as what year it was that the Gospel was written concerning the holy conception of Mary, Mary’s child?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, well it’s guessed that, and when I say guessed, scholars estimate that Mark wrote his Gospel about 20 years after Christ. Is that what you’ve understood, Pastor Ross? And that would have been the first Gospel. Next would have been Matthew, then Luke and then John. John’s Gospel may be written as late as 95 A.D.

Joseph: When you say 20 years, Pastor, did you mean 20 years after Jesus’ passing?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, 20 years after, of course, not only His passing but His resurrection.

Joseph: That was the first writing concerning that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: The first complete, yeah, assembly of the Gospel; and of course, many of the witnesses were still alive at that point.

Joseph: Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, thank you Joseph, good question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Isaac is listening and calling from Egg Harbor Township, I guess it is, in New Jersey. Isaac, welcome to the program.

Isaac: Hi, my question is on people having claiming to be able to heal other people by looking through their eye and be able to tell them their disease and how to cure it. And I haven’t seen it happen, but I have close relatives who have actually gone there and took their son who had a real bad problem and she just took a look at his eye and then she was able to see his problem, and she was able to find a way to cure it. Is that biblical? Is that of God or is that of Satan?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I’m sure that there are people who take that teaching and probably abuse it and use it for some kind of con or bamboozling, but it is true for a basic checkup. One of the many things a doctor can do to evaluate a variety of diseases, they’ll not only look at your tongue, they’ll look at your eyes; because if your eyes are jaundiced, if your eyes are dilated you could tell what’s happening with the brain sometimes by looking at the eyes. But very rarely can you actually look at the eyes and tell if a person has got a corn on his toe, or most sicknesses are not going to be seen in the eyes. So, somebody who claims to be able to diagnose anything by looking in the eyes, that sounds like bamboozling to me.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s got its roots in this Eastern meditation…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, mystical…

Pastor Jëan Ross: …medicine and all the rest of it.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, kind of new age.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I think I’d avoid that. A genuine doctor can look at someone’s eyes and usually tell if you’re sleepy.

Pastor Jëan Ross: If you’re sleepy or not.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: [Laughing] yeah. They can tell if you've got jaundice but you cannot diagnose everything from the eye, but just some things. The white of the eye and the dilation will divulge, but I would be very cautious about someone who says there’s a Bible teaching. Luke 11:34, Jesus says, “The light of the body is the eye: therefore if your eye is single, your whole body is full of light,” and there’s nothing to do with healing there. It’s talking about teaching and truth, okay?

Isaac: So you would say that this is wrong, this is false?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: It sounds very doubtful to me.

Isaac: Okay, thank you. That clarifies a lot.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thanks. You’re welcome.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Jeff is calling Harris Township, Minnesota. Welcome to the program Jeff.

Jeff: Hi. How are you doing?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good, are you in Michigan?

Jeff: Yes, I’m in Michigan.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh, alright, Michigan.

Jeff: My question is in Revelation 22:2 it refers to the tree of life being on both sides of the river.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Jeff: And I read that for the first time a number of months ago and I’ve been trying to figure out how that can be, that one tree can be on both sides of the river.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good, good question. Well, the way I’ve had it explained to me and it made sense, this is a tree of life that is going to be an eternal tree; and it’s an enormous tree because all the redeemed eat from a tree. It’s very clear, it’s singular, an enormous tree, that the branches grow together above the river, the roots grow together below the river and it has got a trunk on both sides. So it is a tree of life, circular, the river of life runs through it. That’s the only good explanation I’ve heard to reconcile that. Hope that helps a little bit Jeff.

Friends you can tell we’re going to have to take a break now, it’s our halfway point. This is where we catch our breath, take a drink and get ready to make a dash for the last half. We got lines open so if you want to get your question in, well give us a call. It’s a free phone call and the answers are free too. All you’ve got to do is call, 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. Don’t forget to check AmazingFacts.org.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: We are back. If you have Bible questions, you can still call. I think I see one or two lines open. That number is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. This is Bible Answers Live. We’d like to also encourage you to go to the Amazing Facts' website. We can only cover just a little, the tip of the iceberg of resources we have available to share with you, many of them free. There are some other things that are in our catalog you can buy, but go to the Amazing Facts' website. All you've got to do is type in Amazing Facts into Google it’ll take you there, AmazingFacts.com, .org,.net, .TV. You've got a virtual tree of life of information. You can watch sermon presentations, video, listen to audio messages, you can listen to archived Bible Answers Live, you can take our online Bible Study course, a lot that is there. We hope you send the link to all of your friends and enemies. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, another thing we like to mention from time to time is, in addition to the Amazing Facts' website, Amazing Facts has a number of other websites that deal with different important biblical truths.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yup, that’s right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Some of them are the Truth about Death.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Hell Truth, we’ve got one on…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Sabbath Truth.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …Sabbath Truth, we have one on Mary.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Mary Truth; there are a lot of questions about Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Jesus.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s on there. So we encourage folks to take a look at these websites as well. A lot of tremendous information…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know what I’ve done, and I don’t want to be self-promoting here, but there’s even a Doug Batchelor website and at my website, I list a lot of the other websites.

Pastor Jëan Ross: So if they want to find them go to your website.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: DougBatchelor.org. It’s under construction but they’ll see all the websites on the left hand there, and they can see my family. So we have a few family pictures there.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay, let’s go to the phone lines. Sean is listening on WMCA from Mount Vernon, New York. Sean welcome to the program.

Sean: How are you doing sir?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good. How about you?

Sean: I’m wonderful, can’t complain, blessed and thankful.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And your question?

Sean: Yes, my question is dealing with Daniel chapter 12, verse 1, dealing with Michael the Archangel. I just want to know is there any correlation with Michael being elevated to Jesus Christ, being how Abram was turned to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul; and knowing that God is the angel of the Lord and, you know, He’s an angel. I notice that in the Bible, Michael is the only one called the archangel. I know Gabriel and a few others, but I have never seen anyone else called the archangel but Michael. No one has the name of Michael, which means “who is like God,” so I just want to know if there’s any correlation with Michael being elevated to Jesus Christ?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you’re on the right track, but I’d use a different word. Just a little correction too, you won’t find Raphael anywhere in the Bible. He’s one of the angels. Gabriel yes, but Michael is an Old Testament example of the pre-incarnate appearances of Jesus.

Sean: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now, you look at the characteristics of Michael, never does it call Michael an angel. The word "Archangel" means "Greatest Messenger." It’s not talking about cherubim or seraphim. These are pre-incarnation manifestations of Jesus. For instance, when Michael appears as the General of God’s army to Joshua, He says, “Take your shoes off your feet for you are on holy ground.” Well that’s what Jehovah said to Moses.

Sean: Right, exactly.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: In Daniel 12 you just quoted, it says, “Michael will stand up” and there’s a great resurrection. Well, Jesus said, “I’m the resurrection and the life.” In Daniel 12 also it says, “The one who intercedes for thy people,” that’s the one who stands for thy people, Christ is our intercessor. If you go to 1st Thessalonians 4 we quoted earlier tonight, it says, “The Lord will descend from heaven with the voice of the archangel,” the Lord with the voice of the archangel. And then in the Book of Jude, its got Michael resurrecting, and Jesus is the resurrection. Then another place when this archangel appears they call him Wonderful; and one of the names for Jesus is Wonderful.

So Matthew Henry in his commentary, Adam Clarke and many of the old Protestant scholars, they believe Michael was one of mysterious names for Jesus in the Old Testament...

Sean: Right.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: ...and the way He appeared there, but it’s not saying Jesus is an angel. That’s heresy to say that Christ is like a cherubim or something. He’s the eternal son of God.

Sean: Exactly. So I just thought maybe He was elevated, you know, Michael…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: No, He’s always been the Son of God. He’s eternal, the Son of God. You know, I’ve got a book on this. I’ve actually written a book, I should have thought of that sooner, that I’ll send you. It’s called, “Michael the Archangel.” Would you like a free copy of that?

Sean: Definitely yes, yes, yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, Pastor Ross will give you the number. Just call them and they’ll send it to you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sean, call the resource number, it’s 1-800-835-6747. Ask for Pastor Doug’s book, “Michael the Archangel,” a lot of good information there. Our next caller is David and he’s listening on WMCA from Newark, New Jersey. David, welcome to the program.

David: Yes, good evening tonight. How are you guys?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good. How about you?

David: Pretty good. First John chapter 5, verse 7.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay.

David: Now, if anything was added into the Bible until the first Century when the Bible was written, why was this added?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, there are some scholars that will argue that this verse is not in certain manuscripts, but if you look in the King James Version, the New King James Version, the New American Standard Version and a number of others, this verse is in all those versions. Let me tell you what the history is as well as I know David. In the most trusted manuscript for translating in the New Testament, which is called the Textus Receptus or the Received Text, it’s in there. They had some other dubious manuscripts, one is called Sinaiticus and the other is the Vaticanus, this verse was not in one of those. I don’t know, it may not be in both of them. Jëan, you may know. And that doesn’t mean that the verse didn’t exist, it means really that the flaw is with those other manuscripts, but we believe this is an inspired statement, that it was in the original.

David: But wasn’t this added into the 16th Century, in the King James Version?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: No, this verse is in the Textus Receptus manuscripts.

David: When was it added into the Bible?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I believe that this was in the Bible. Matter of fact, you’ll find it in the old Catholic translations so I’m not sure what you’re asking about. This one verse, to my knowledge, was not added separately.

David: Well, there are copies that I found that was added in the 1600s.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well I’d be interested to know about that.

David: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: If you go to the Amazing Facts' website there is a place for you to contact us. Send us that information. I’d like to see that.

David: Okay, God bless you now.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, appreciate it David.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Ruth is listening KSOH from Moxee, Washington. Ruth, welcome to the program.

Ruth: Hello?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi, you’re on the air Ruth, how can we help you?

Ruth: Okay, yes, I have a question in regards to a head covering for women, and where it says in 1st Corinthians 11?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Ruth: It says every woman that prays or prophesies with their head uncovered dishonors their heads. I don’t see this mentioned anywhere else in the Bible, but the denomination I went to didn’t emphasize it, or no one ever observed it. And I haven’t observed it in most of the denominations I’ve looked at so I was wondering if you could comment on that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you will find there are some denominations. If you go to some of the European countries, the Orthodox churches there, women will all have their heads covered when they come into church, and it’s based on this verse. I remember having prayer with a family one time and as soon as I began prayer, the lady began to look nervous. She reached around, she grabbed the curtains she was kneeling by and laid them over her head, because she just had been always trained to cover her head during times of prayer. There’s no other place in the Old Testament or even the Levitical Law with all the minute laws that God gives about a women covering her head when she prays.

Some have argued that’s because it was such a common practice that they didn’t even need to say it. What Paul is talking about is that God has given women a natural, glorious head of hair to be a covering and as a sign of humility when she prays, she should have her head covered. Some are wondering was this a cultural issue. In the Roman Empire, it was considered disrespectful for a woman to be praying in public with her head uncovered. It was a sign of humility; others said it was a sign of respect for their husband. Paul kind of leaves the door open towards the end of it. He says, “For we have no other custom,” and he uses the word "custom" there. Then people say, “Oh, well maybe he’s dealing with a custom because it’s never mentioned anywhere else.” And that’s in verse 16, “But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such customs, nor do the churches of God.”

My understanding has been it’s very dangerous to build a doctrine on one verse; and because this is the only place in the Bible where this is mentioned, I certainly have no burden if anybody reads this and says, “You know, I feel convicted that when I pray in public or when I pray publicly in church, I should have some form of covering on my head.” I’ve had ladies that have come to my church that have that burden and I have no desire to--you know, if the Holy Spirit is speaking to them, to change their mind.

Ruth: Okay. And then I was wondering now also in the same chapter, 1st Corinthians 11, verse 10, could you explain what this means, “For this cause of the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.” What does that mean? I’ve never understood that.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, it’s saying that in the word here, in the New King James, “For this reason a woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head.” What that means is that there is a symbol there by covering her head, that she is showing submission to God and some have argued submission to her husband or submission to man that they respect. I’m just telling you what the different churches say from this verse, that women are to show in the family that men are the servant leaders of their families, and because they recognize the men’s heads are not covered but the women’s are. One of the problems with this, Ruth, is you go to a Jewish church and the men cover their heads with a Yamaka.

Ruth: Yes, I’ve heard that too.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’m Jewish and so I’ve always wondered--well, I go into a Christian church and I take my baseball cap off. I go into a Jewish church and I put half a baseball cap on. So…

Ruth: Right. Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Whenever the women were out in public, it was a sign of respect for them to go ahead and cover their heads for their husbands, excuse me [coughing].

Pastor Doug Batchelor: I told him not to come to the program tonight. He’s just recovering, but he’s so dedicated.

Pastor Jëan Ross: I’ve been holding on for a cough here.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, God says that the women are to show a symbol of respect--we’re going to call 911 for Jëan here in just a minute [laughing], sorry--but I don’t know if that helps at all. Let me give you a similar issue. I hate wearing ties. I can’t find any good reason biblically to wear a tie. The only reason I would wear a tie is because in our culture it is understood to be a symbol of the most respectful form of attire. Now the customs are changing; but still, when the President gives a speech, he’s got a tie on. He’s not wearing these typical turtlenecks. So that’s what I believe it has to do with. Does that help a little?

Ruth: It really does. And can I just throw one more question out here? Is that okay?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

Ruth: Okay, if we have, let’s say, at death, even if we have one unconfessed sin, can we go to heaven?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You know, if we have known sin--I mean I’m sure there’s things I’ve done in the past that I don’t remember, that’s probably true of everybody. But if there’s some known sin in our life that the Holy Spirit’s revealed that we’ve not confessed and forsaken, that’s very dangerous; that’s rebellion. And so I can’t remember every lie I told when I was growing up, but I’ve said, “Lord, forgive me for my lying,” and I think that covers it. If the Holy Spirit ever brings anything specific to me, I’m happy to specifically confess that. See what I’m saying?

Ruth: Okay. Well, my dad used to say, “Keep a real short account.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s right. As soon as you do something and you know it’s wrong, at the end of every day say, “Lord, forgive me” and ask the blood of Jesus to cover it.

Ruth: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thanks a lot.

Ruth: Well this has been really wonderful. Thank you so much.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: You’re welcome Ruth, God bless.

Pastor Jëan Ross: One of the hardest things, Pastor Doug, is to hold back a cough and then to start speaking, and it’s crazy.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah [laughing].

Pastor Jëan Ross: You just can’t hold it back any longer. I apologize for that folks.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Or a sneeze, it’s just too bad.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, alright, and Tony is listening on WMUZ. Welcome to the program, calling from Michigan.

Tony: Thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Novi, is that right?

Novi: Novi.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Novi, sorry.

Novi: It’s alright. I’m calling considering the fact that I want to state state, first of all, I’m a Christian; second, a man of science; and third, I have a medical degree, MD degree, only to say that the friends I hang out with at church are engineers and financial consultants that are extremely wealthy and extremely intelligent. And we have this proverbial argument about the age of the earth and that type of conversation of evolution, creationism and intelligent design. I personally believe that the word of God is an errant word of God. I believe it’s inspired; and I’m not really interested in when fossils were made or when they weren’t made, or when the earth was made or when it wasn’t made. But they try to assume that I’m being lazy and not pursuing my level of intelligence to have a good conversation with people who are also scientifically oriented. But the truth of the matter is it doesn’t seem to be a main concern to Christ Himself when He was on earth to delve into that, and it seems like God in His infinite wisdom chose a certain particular time and space to have Christ appear in the earth, which was during the Roman Empire and man were semi-civilized.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, I’m trying to wait for the question here before…

Novi: The question is that I want to understand your perspective on the age of the earth in regard to Scripture and where I can leave this conversation behind with these other fellows?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright good question. Now I do think the Lord wants us to use our brains and to think about these things. God invites us in Isaiah to come and to reason together. Some have, and I would respectfully disagree with this group, they have mistakenly assumed that the entire universe was created 6,000 years ago. While I do believe that our world was created, the planet may have been here for eons before God began creating it. In other words, our planet may have looked like a chaotic orb that was just floating in space and who knows when He made, well, the mass itself; because when God begins the creation, the preface of Genesis starts with the headlines, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

In other words, back in the very beginning, God is the author of all these things. And so it’s not telling us that 6,000 years ago, He actually made the mass. That’s why some of the rocks may date older than 6,000 years, but the creation of life on our planet goes back according to the Bible when He began creating. Some believe that there were these different ages and the dinosaurs died out; and that doesn’t make sense biblically because, first of all, I don’t think the fossil record supports it. Secondly, the Bible tells us there was no death in the world until Adam and Eve sinned. So how could you have all of these creatures dying off before Adam and Eve are even born? See what I’m saying?

Novi: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: So I believe that the matter of the world was here 6,000 years ago. God came to this chaotic orb. It may have looked like the moon. It says, “The earth was void and without form." It was there but it was, you know, formless. He said, “Let there be light,” and He began creating. So that happened 6,000 years ago approximately, I mean I’m not trying to set a date. Okay?

Novi: Okay.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: And hope that helps a little bit. Hey, by the way, we’ve got a book that will I think help your friends, we’ll send you a free copy. It’s called, “When Evolution Flunked the Science Test" and we’ll send you a free copy of that just for calling in Novi, okay?

Novi: Thank you much.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thank you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Call that resource number, it’s 1-800-835-6747, and ask for the book, “When Evolution Flunked the Science Test.” Our next caller is David, listening on WMCA from Jersey City, New Jersey. David, welcome to the program.

David: Yes, thank you very much. Yes, I just have one question in reference to Genesis chapter 3, verse 22, and it says, “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” And I don’t understand why--I mean, it seems like a controversy here because the Bible says that we’re saved by grace and faith in Christ Jesus, salvation and to live forever through Jesus Christ. Yet it has here something else. It says the tree of life, to eat, and to live forever. Now can you break that down to me and explain the difference between those two situations?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, well spiritually, keep in mind, what did Jesus die on, David?

David: He died on the cross.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Do you know that it says in Acts chapter 2 He died on the tree? Now the cross, of course, was a tree. Most of the pictures we see of the cross where this finely-huned, six by six lumber--the Romans never wasted expensive lumber in killing criminals. They just would go hack down a tree and strap it together and crucify them. Jesus died on a tree. In the Old Testament it says, “Cursed is everyone that is hanged on a tree.” Christ took the curse of sin for us. The cross became a tree of life. Jesus was the fruit on that tree of life; and so there’s a symbol even there in the Garden of Eden. Now, once we get back into heaven it says--we already had that question tonight--“On either side of the river of life is the tree of life.” So Jesus is the Bread that came down from heaven and Jesus is the Living Water, He is everything. So when man was told he could no longer eat from that tree of life, man was separated from God because of his sin.

That tree of life also represented the life that God gives His creatures; because let’s face it, God can make a person live without eating at all. Moses was up on a mountain without eating for 40 days and 40 nights. But then, again, when Elijah fled into the wilderness an angel fed him special food, and on the strength of that food he went 40 days and 40 nights. So, sometimes God uses natural means.

David: Okay, so are you saying that this is a symbolic picture of Christ on the cross?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, no, the tree of life is real, but I’m saying that it’s an allegory of also Christ being the tree of life.

David: Because it says in Revelation 22:1 and 2 it talks about the tree of life. So I’m saying--but I don’t understand that wasn't to eat if we eat of Christ, and here you have something separate, the tree of life, you know what I’m saying?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, alright. Well let me ask you this. Was it part of God’s original plan for humans to eat food at all?

David: Yes.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay, so eating is part of the way God designed us; but He has also created a tree, and eating of that tree there is some essence in the tree that helps perpetuate life. So God gives us the gift of everlasting life through Christ. Our glorified bodies will somehow be enhanced by eating of this special fruit that He places in our hands. So there’s no conflict with Jesus giving us everlasting life and eating from the tree of life.

David: Okay, I got you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay.

David: Alright, I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, thank you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: John is listening on KR_M from Fresno, California. John, welcome to the program.

John: Hey, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Good. How about you?

John: Oh real good Pastor Doug. Okay, I got a question here, a little confusing for me. In Joshua 4:9, my basic question is where did Joshua actually set up the altar after they crossed the river Jordan? And in Joshua 4:9--I’m reading out of the New International Version--it says, “Joshua set up the twelve stones that had been in the middle of the Jordan, at the spot where the priest who carried the ark of the covenant had stood: and they are there to this day.” And then you go on to 20, it says, “Joshua set up at Gilgal, the twelve stones that they had taken out of the Jordan.”

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

John: And so those are…

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, those 12 stones were set--matter of fact, the word "Gilgal" means "circle." And they set up those 12 stones that they had taken out of the midst of the river, and they say they were large stones. These weren’t pebbles or they would have gotten kicked over. They were probably as big a stone as the strongest man could carry. Maybe you’ve seen some of these weightlifting demonstrations of strength where these world’s strongest men, they pick up these big old boulders and move it. Well picture that. They got the strongest men in Israel, and some of them were probably bigger than the strongest man today. They hoisted those on their shoulders, hauled them up out of the Jordan creek bed and dumped them on the shore up by the flat by Gilgal.

And they became a memorial to remind the people how God miraculously parted the water there so the whole nation could cross over. Now where are the stones today? Well, they may have been covered with the dust of time, but when Joshua wrote his book, by the end of the book they were still there.

John: And so that’s why he put the day [cross talk]

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. In case you’re wondering, Gilgal is near Jericho. Jericho is by the Jordan River. It’s the southern Jordan valley. It’s north of the Dead Sea and that’s where that crossing was.

John: Okay. So the altar was never built in the middle of the river. They were just taken out of the middle of the river and set up at Gilgal?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah. The Ark stood in the middle of the river as the people crossed over and once they made a complete exit, then the Ark marched out and the waters flooded again.

John: Okay. And those are the same exact stones they took out of the water, then he used those same exact stones to build the ark, I mean, an altar.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: No, not to build the ark, to build an altar.

John: I mean, an altar, to build an altar.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah.

John: Okay, well that clears it up for me.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, thanks John.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Miguel is listening on KTHZ from Lincoln, California. Miguel, welcome to the program.

Miguel: Hi, thank you.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi, and your question?

Miguel: I have reference in Revelation chapter 11 beginning with verse 3, where you find mention of two witnesses in sackcloth.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Miguel: Now I’ve heard, you know, people say, "Okay, Moses and Elijah are coming back." But oftentimes I’ve heard these two witnesses being referred to as the Old and New Testament. I wanted to see if there was biblical evidence or proof for these claims of being the Old and New Testament.

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, more precisely, sometimes the word of God is divided. The word of God is dual. For instance, the Bible says, “In the mouth of two witnesses,” sometimes it’s called the Law and the Prophets. You remember the last words in the Old Testament, said, “Remember the law of Moses,” Malachi chapter 4, “Behold I send you Elijah the prophet,” Moses the Law, Elijah the Prophets. Then on top of this Mount of Transfiguration in Mark chapter 9, Moses and Elijah appear to Jesus; the Law and the Prophets. The word of God is called the sword with two edges; it’s dual in nature. If you call it the New and the Old testament, that’s entirely accurate. The word of God has been divided in dual nature many ways; and so these are the two witnesses of God. It’s speaking of the word of God, the Law and the Prophets, the New and the Old Testament, that’s the two witnesses.

Miguel: So His law and His prophets?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Some people call them Moses and Elijah because Moses is a type of the law, and Elijah a type of the prophets. The fact that Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on that Mount of Transfiguration shows the ultimate endorsement that He was the Messiah, meaning, the word of God was endorsing Jesus.

Miguel: Okay. Is there significance for them being dressed in sackcloth?

Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, then at that point it’s talking about the prophecy that during the dark ages, matter of fact, it’s during that 1,260 year period, the word of God basically was outlawed even by the church. Only a few priests were allowed to read it and interpret it to the people. They were kept chained up in monasteries. So sackcloth is like a potato bag. The word of God had to prophesy through a potato bag. It was obstructed, it was restricted.

Oh, I’m sorry we didn’t get more time for your question. Hey, by the way Miguel, your question will fit with our free offer tonight. Ask for the, “Bride of Christ.” Call the toll-free number we’re going to give in a minute and we’ll send that to you.

Listening friends, thank you for tuning in tonight. Keep in mind this is a listener-supported, entirely faith-based ministry. If you’ve been blessed, we’d like to hear from you. Drop us a line. You can even send us an email. Go to the website AmazingFacts.org and let us know if this program has been a blessing to you. We’d like to make friends, and also share the link with others. Until next week, remember it’s all about Jesus, who is the Truth that will set you free.

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