Rescue from Above

Date: 02/09/2014 
Well, the story is still coming in. On January 30th, a man walked up onto a coral reef on Atoll in the Marshall Islands called Ebon. He was wearing...
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Doug Batchelor: Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Well, the story is still coming in. On January 30th, a man walked up onto a coral reef on Atoll in the Marshall Islands called Ebon. He was wearing underwear and kind of waving a knife and some of the locals contacted other people living on the island. It turns out; the man had been drifting in the sea as a castaway for 13 months. His name, Jose Salvador Alvarenga.

He said he set off in December 2012 from Mexico, and he was with a friend named Ezekiel. They were out shark fishing and evidently, they got blown off course by a storm, their engine stalled eventually. They couldn't restart the engine and began to drift from Mexico.

Well, after about four weeks, Ezekiel died from hunger or from kidney failure. And for the next 12 months, Jose was floating out in the Pacific Ocean, living off of sea turtles, and seabirds, and fish that he caught in an almost unbelievable story.

He became very discouraged at times and even thought about suicide but he said he knew the Lord didn't want him to do that and he told reporters, God kept him alive. He's not even back home yet. This just happened. He's on the Island of Majuro. I've been there years ago. It is out in the middle of nowhere.

Amazing story of God's preservation. Have you ever felt like you were alone, lost, drifting, and wondering if there would be any hope of salvation? Well, we've got a special story for you. Just stand by, you'll learn more on this edition of Amazing Facts.


Doug Batchelor: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live, and if you're tuning in for the first time, this is a live international interactive Bible study. And you can call in if you're in North America. It’s a toll free number, 800-GOD-SAYS, (800)-463-7297. We'll bring your Bible question into our studio tonight. And we've got the…yeah, the line is open. And so if you’ve got a question about the Word of God or the Christian life and you’d like to ask, we don’t have all the answers but we’ve got the Bible here and several translations at our fingertips on the computer. So we’ll search together and find the answers.

So, if you want to call in, one more time (800)-463-7297. That’s 800-GOD-SAYS or (800)-463-7297. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross, and let’s begin the program with prayer. Dear Father, once again, we thank You that we can spend a few moments together studying Your Word. And we ask for the Holy Spirit to come and give us guidance as we search the Scriptures, be with those who are listening wherever they might be, Lord, lead us together into a clearer understanding of Your Word. For we ask this in Jesus Name. Amen.

Douglas Batchelor Amen!

Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the story, or opened the program with a remarkable story about somebody who floated in a boat – and I saw a picture of the boat. It’s got no cover, so he was open to the elements for 12 months, or more than 12 months, across the Pacific Ocean, living on seabirds and fish and catching rainwater to drink. Just an incredible story of endurance and just hanging in there.

Douglas Batchelor Yeah. Right now, he’s in a hotel on the Island of Marjuro and they said that he’s actually too frail to fly because you lived in that kind of an environment for a year and he had too much salt in his system, and he’s got some swelling, some of his organs aren’t working right. And so, it might be that he’s eating so much rich food. He had a very restricted diet for so long, and then they just started feeding him everything. I think that’s part of the problem.

And so, they’re going to let him recover for a little while. And then he’ll fly back to either to El Salvador or to Mexico where he departed from. But it just reminds you of the providence of God that can protect a person. And out in the Pacific – well, I was lost out in the Pacific Ocean once. Honestly, my family and I were living on an island called Ant, heading over to Ponapi, and the sun went down and it’s pretty frightening even though it was a few hours. We wondered if we’d ever find our way back.

But I can’t imagine what it would be like for 12 months. And frequently, some of these people that live in the islands and work on the coast, they go missing and they never hear from them again. And when this boat disappeared in 2012 of December, they did a brief search and they said the weather wouldn’t permit them to keep searching. And they just assumed that they were lost. And can you imagine the joy of Jose’s parents when they found that he’s still alive.

So there’s someone out searching for you, friends. Have you been drifting? You’ve been looking for land? Our Lord has a shore for you to dock with, maybe you’d like to know, how can I find that deliverance, That salvation from my odyssey. We have a special offer for you that talks about how you can be rescued.

Jëan Ross: We have an excellent Bible study guide called Rescue From Above and it talks about salvation, how Jesus rescues us if we turn to Him. Friends, if you’d like to receive this resource that’ll help you in your walk with Christ, give us a call on our resource line. The number is (800)-835-6747. Again, that’s the resource line (800)-835-6747 and you can ask for the study guide entitled Rescue From Above.

Again, that’s (800)-835-6747 and the study guide again is Rescue From Above.

Doug Batchelor: And if you’re by your internet or if you want to jot down for a lot more of our resources, you could just go to the Amazing Facts website. It’s very simple,, it’ll take you there. Are we ready for the phones?

Jëan Ross: We are. We’re going to go to Michael who is listening in New Jersey. Michael, welcome to the program!

Michael: Pastor Doug, Pastor Ross! Once again, I thank you for your service and I want to see if I can sweep in two quick questions.

Doug Batchelor: All right. Let’s take them one at a time.

Michael: All right. I want to know who Cyrus was. That’s number one.

Doug Batchelor: Okay.

Michael: And number two is the length of Jesus’ hair. I have an answer to that but I want to know do you know.

Doug Batchelor: Alright. Let’s start with Cyrus. Now, there’s a few people named Cyrus in the Bible but principally, the Cyrus, I think, you’re talking about was the King of Persia.

Michael: It’s in Psalms.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, it’s in the Old Testament. He’s mentioned also in Isaiah. He’s a type of Christ in that he was the one who let the children of Israel go from Persia and Babylon back to the Promised Land.

He’s the one who conquered Babylon. When Babylon had taken the children of Israel captive, 70 years later, Cyrus is the one – a very clever general. He was a Persian King. He worked with a Midean King named Darius, so it was this Medo- Persian Kingdom, and they diverted the Euphrates River where it ran under the walls of Babylon, and the whole army was able to march under the walls and take the city.

And so, in Isaiah, I know it talks about Cyrus. It talks about him in 2 Chronicles. It says, “In the first year of King Cyrus,” in Ezra and I don’t know that there’s anything in Psalms. You must mean Isaiah?

Michael: Maybe I got it wrong. It might be Isaiah, I think. Yeah.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. Probably Isaiah 45, “Thus says the Lord to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him.” So it’s interesting. He calls Cyrus an anointed. He was chosen by God with a special work.

Michael: Amen!

Doug Batchelor: And your second question was about the length of Jesus’ hair?

Michael: Yeah. I have an answer, believe it or not. I was really studying hard but first, I’ll give you a clue. Is there any way that Paul would insult Jesus? Is there any way he would do that?

Doug Batchelor: It would. You mean, because it’s a shame for man to have long hair?

Michael: There we go.

Doug Batchelor: You’re talking about 1 Corinthians, what is that? 14?

Michael: 11:14.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, 11:14. That’s it. Well, let me tell you there’s an exception. If a Jew took a vow of a Nazarite. Now, probably, that’s the vow that of course, Samson took. Moses is the one who first talks about the vow of a Nazarite. Samuel may have been a Nazarite. And you don’t have to take that vow for your whole life. Samson had done it for his whole life.

It says there’s one fleeting reference where it says that Jesus, He grew up in Nazareth, that the prophecy might be fulfilled that He would be a Nazarene. So Jesus may have taken the Nazarite vow until His 30th birthday because a Nazarite was never supposed to, not only cut his hair, he’s never supposed to drink any kind of grape juice or even eat raisins. You were forbidden to eat anything from the vine.

So Christ may have at His baptism, ceased His Nazarite vow when He began His public ministry. You know, of course at that point, He was drinking grape juice at least, that’s why some pictures portray Him with long hair. We have no Biblical proof beyond that.

Michael: But Paul would never even think about saying anything against Jesus. So I’m saying, it’s all after…

Doug Batchelor: That’s a good point. Now, let me think about this. In Revelation when it talks about Jesus appearing. It says, “The hair of His head was like wool.” But it doesn’t say how long it was.

Jëan Ross: Yeah, it doesn’t.

Michael: So it’s a possibility He didn’t have the lengthy hair like it’s pictured in the pictures and in the movies.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. Well probably, I mean, it’s very likely that His hair was probably a little longer than what we will consider short hair today.

Jëan Ross: A Marine.

Doug Batchelor: Correct.

Jëan Ross: It’s probably not a Marine cut. There was a type of haircut that the Roman soldiers would be known for which was very short. But the common people, especially the Jews, especially those who are out working in the fields and laboring, probably their hair was a little longer but there’s a big difference between the way the men would wear their hair and the length of their hair back in Bible times in relationship to the length that a woman would—

Doug Batchelor: The women’s hair went down to the waist.

Jëan Ross: It was much longer.

Michael: Right.

Doug Batchelor: So long and short, it’s sort of a relevant term.

Michael: Thank you, Pastors.

Doug Batchelor: Hey, thanks. I appreciate your question, Michael.

Michael: Alright! Thank you.

Jëan Ross: We have James who’s listening also in New York. James, welcome to the program.

James: Yes. I have a question on the subject of Apostolic succession.

Doug Batchelor: Okay.

James: There are certain denominations like Catholicism and Orthodoxy, et cetera, that believe bishops have Apostolic succession that can perform miracles and perhaps, resurrect the dead. And these are apostles or men appointed. They’re not from Christ’s time. Is that a valid concept?

Doug Batchelor: Well, we don’t really see evidence that beyond that first generation of apostles that Jesus chose that you had the same level of inspiration and power among the original 12. Their writings were considered Scripture. There may have been other church leaders and elders that were—the Bible, of course, calls Paul an apostle but he wasn’t one of the 12. The apostles chose Matthias to replace Judas.

And this seems to indicate that Apollos was viewed as an apostle in the early church. But it’s that first century typically, they were the ones who actually Jesus appeared to. They either knew Him like Peter, James, and John where they walked with Him or He appeared personally to Paul.

Then the church leaders beyond that, they talk about the role of apostle but it’s not the level of the ones that Jesus had actually laid hands on.

James: Now, the 71 disciples from Jesus’ time had essentially the same authority like the 12 apostles.

Doug Batchelor: No—and that’s a good point. I’m glad you mentioned that. See, Moses had 12 princes of the 12 tribes and then he had 70 elders. And Jesus had 12 apostles and He also appointed 70 disciples. They were part of teaching teams, and Matthias was probably part of that, Stephen and Philip and some of the early deacons were part, probably, of His 70 core group that went out teaching. Many of them were probably in the upper room when the Holy Spirit was poured out. It says, “There was 120 in the upper room.” Well, that could be 70 of the disciples and 12 apostles and still room left over. So, it’s a different role, I think.

James: Right, right. I think.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. I hope that helps a little bit but yeah, you don’t see the same level of miracles. It seemed like the Lord injected the adrenaline of miraculous power in the early church to launch the power, kick-start it, if you will. And you may see that again before the Second Coming. But we haven’t seen the same level of miraculous power among church leaders. I think the Lord said, “Blessed are those who believe without seeing,” at this point.

James: Okay. Thank you for a very nice response.

Doug Batchelor: Thank you, James. I appreciate your question.

Jëan Ross: We have Debra, who is listening in Michigan. Debra, welcome to the program.

Debra: Thank you, pastors. My question is that if someone leaves you a lump sum or if you come into a lot of money, you still have to give 10% of that as an offering?

Doug Batchelor: Well, the principle is, you’re speaking about tithe, I assume.

Debra: Yes.

Doug Batchelor: The principle is that tithe was to be a tenth of your increase. So if you’re in business and let’s just suppose that your business is that you sell popcorn. And to get the raw popcorn, you’ve got to pay $1 and you then sell it for $10—I’m just making the numbers up. You don’t pay tithe on the $1 that you invested in getting the popcorn, you pay on the increase, which would have been $9.

But if you get a lump sum inheritance, if you inherit a piano it’s hard to pay tithe on it because it goes from 88 keys to 80 keys. So you can’t do it that way but if you get a lump sum of cash and you love the Lord, I would say, why wouldn’t you want to honor God by giving a tithe on that.

Debra: Okay. I just want to be sure.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. You can’t out-give God. We just had a question a minute ago about the early church, Debra. And you’re reading the New Testament and the standard for giving then was not lower than the priest when they had tithe. It was actually higher. Some of these disciples and believers were taking their property and their possessions and selling them and giving to the church [crosstalk]. They were making a tremendous sacrifice in the early days, and I think we probably need that again in the Last Days.

So we do have a study guide that talks about tithe, Debra. We will send you a free copy and it’s called In God We Trust.

Jëan Ross: It’s called In God We Trust, and the number to call is (800)-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide entitled In God We Trust. Again, (800)-835-6747. Our next call is calling from Canada. We have Marica who is listening on KFIA. I think it’s Marica. Marica?

Doug Batchelor: Marcia?

Jëan Ross: Marcia?

Marcia: Marcia.

Doug Batchelor: He’s from South Africa….

Jëan Ross: Well, I think the spelling there as well … Marcia, welcome to the program.

Doug Batchelor: Your question.

Marcia: Thank you very much. My question is the one from the verse in Deuteronomy 22:11 regarding dressing, as well as 1 Timothy, I believe it’s 1 Timothy 2 regarding the braiding of hair. I just wanted more clarification because some people say—well, in the Bible days, there were no pants so even men did not wear pants but nowadays, it said, well, women are not supposed to wear pants because they are more for men than for women. Can you explain that a little bit?

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, I’ll do my best. In Deuteronomy 22:11 it says that “A man shall not wear that which pertains to a woman, and neither shall a woman put on a man’s clothing. For all that do so are an abomination.”

Just on that point quickly, the main thing is, the Lord doesn’t talk about pants or dresses or shirts or anything there. He talks about a distinction. God is saying that whatever the styles are, there should always be a distinction between the clothing of men and women. Obviously, men and women ideally were built differently. There may be exceptions out there but we’re supposed to be built a little differently. I know that my wife accidently put some of her pants in my drawer and it didn’t take me long to figure out something had gone terribly wrong.

So God wants us to maintain those distinctions especially in a culture today where there are people that are clamoring for homosexuality to just sort of be the norm, and they’re eliminating or erasing distinctions between men and women. Christians ought to celebrate those differences instead of ignore them or try to blur them.

So in the Bible time, they didn’t wear pants. The men might wear robes and the women might wear robes but there was a difference. And I know that there were tribes, I heard about in South America, where they both wear cloaks—the men and the women. But the man’s cloak had a square collar and the woman’s cloak had a V collar. And it would be a shame for the woman to put on a man’s cloak. And so there was a distinction that the people all knew. And in the same way, there should be a difference.

Now, if a woman is going to wear pants, they should be modest and same thing with the man. I mean, let’s face it, you can wear a dress that’s tight and revealing and women these days are encouraged to look as provocative as they can. It’s considered stylish dressing. But the Bible talks about dressing modestly so that you don’t accentuate your sexuality.

So there should be a distinction. It should be modest. Christian clothing should be clean. I don’t think we should be so far behind the times that we look like we stepped out of two generations ago. And we shouldn’t try and be so trendy that we’re always on the cutting edge.

Marcia: Okay.

Doug Batchelor: And now back to the braided hair, and that’s in 1 Timothy chapter 2 where it says in verse 9, “In like manner, that the women also adorn themselves in modest apparel,” see there’s a principle, “with shamefacedness.” That’s the King James, and that means with humility and sobriety, “not with broided hair or gold or pearls or costly array.”

Well, in Paul’s time, they would weave gold chains in their hair. And that was usually something that the prostitutes were doing. And so this is not a mandate that braiding your hair is sinful because sometimes it’s a very practical thing to do to just get your hair out of the way when you’re working.

Marcia: That’s why I asked because I’m African and my hair is very—I don’t know if you know what our hair looks like. So it’s difficult to not braid the hair sometimes and I was wondering okay, if don’t braid it then it looks really ridiculous.

Doug Batchelor: Oh yeah. No, I understand. And Paul is not talking about that. There’s no sin in that.

Marcia: Okay.

Doug Batchelor: And I don’t know any Christian commentator—I mean, there may be some strange ones out there but I’ve not read any commentary. You’ll also find this mentioned in—is it 1 Peter, Pastor Ross? I think it talks about in 1 Peter also about the hair. And I don’t know any commentator that says that this is a mandate against braiding hair.

As a matter of fact, some of the most conservative Christian churches like the Amish and the Mennonites, the women all grow their hair long and they braid it, kind of put it up in a bun. So they don’t even interpret it that way.

Marcia: Okay. Alright! Thank you so much for the clarification.

Doug Batchelor: Alright! I appreciate your questions.

Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Thorson, listening in Eureka, California. I think I got that right. Thorson, welcome to the program.

Thorson: Thanks, Pastor Doug and Pastor John!

Doug Batchelor: Hi!

Thorson: I appreciate you taking my call.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, your question.

Thorson: So yeah, in Genesis, in chapter 6, it talks about before the flood that men and women began to increase in number on the earth. This kind of implies that there were a fair number of people and we also—it’s clear in Genesis that the people before the flood were very advanced and capable of doing some pretty amazing things.

My question and what seems somewhat bothersome to me is the fossil record is so incredibly well preserved in some cases that things like dragonflies or ferns or butterfly wings are there for us to see. And yet, there’s no evidence whatsoever of these people and their complicated society that they were capable of building.

I’ve asked people before and I’ve heard answers like that was where the most destruction on the earth was, so they were buried under lots of stuff like the Himalayas or that there’s a conspiracy to hide it. But when you look at some of the fossils, those answers seem fairly weak to me and I was just curious if you might have another answer about that.

Doug Batchelor: Well, first of all, I do think that there is evidence that men co-existed with what we’re calling some of these prehistoric creatures. It’s interesting to me that as you said you’ve got dragonfly fossils that they claim are sometimes millions of years old and it’s amazing that they are anatomically identical to dragonflies today, as our alligators, as our horseshoe crabs, 50 million years. They say 50 million years they haven’t changed. Well, if evolution is supposed to improve things, I would hope you could look better than a horseshoe crab because they’re still the same. I’ve seen them crawl up out of the beach on the Atlantic.

If you search the news, just this week, I read—maybe even today in the news that they found a strata—type in human footprints in Great Britain—ancient human footprints in Great Britain. They had a storm that washed away some sediment and they saw this whole layer of footprints that they said were 800,000 years old and human. It’s not a Christian website. I mean, it’d be like in the British News or BBC. And that was amazing. So this is just even from this week.

So I do think there’s evidence that humans lived contemporaneously with some of these prehistoric creatures. I think the dating methods that are used are seriously flawed and somewhat biased. Can I give you a quick example of what I’m talking about Thorson before we take our break?

Thorson: Sure.

Doug Batchelor: There was a debate this week. Many people watched the debate between a popular creationist Ken Ham, who I know and Bill Nye and they did a post interview on CNN. And they were talking about the ice cores. And they said, we know from these ice cores that 30,000 years have gone by between these ice ages and that is categorically not true, the way that they’re dating many of these ice cores. They’re dating the layers as though they’re a year. And evidence for that would be they had, in 1940, a squadron that ran out of fuel over Greenland, a lost squadron, you can type that in.

They had to land on the ice, all the men survived but they had to abandon the planes when they were rescued. It was the middle of the war. The planes got covered. Someone tried several expeditions. They finally located them. They actually had moved. And they had to go down 200 feet to find them, and when they counted the layers, those planes that they knew had landed in 1950 were showing that they had been under 30,000 years of ice based on the core [crosstalk].

Thorson: Yeah. I don’t have any problems with—like I think that the Christian evidence for dating, I think, I totally agree. I think the dating methods are really flawed.

Doug Batchelor: So you’re wondering about just the evidence from then.

Thorson: You know what, every once in a while, I hear people mention a footprint or something like that. It implies that there’s a lot of men out there and there is not a single skeleton that you can look at and say, “I should be a 12 foot tall human being.”

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. I know what you’re saying.

Jëan Ross: Well, I think for one thing, there’s a big difference between animals and human beings. As the rain begins to come and the floodwaters begin to rise, you’re going to have the human beings that are going to try and find the highest place whether that’d be in a tree or whether that’d be climbing up a mountain. They’re going to be the ones in the lead as they begin to see these things happen.

Remember, they had never seen before. So when it began to rain, they began to worry, maybe Noah is right. So try to find higher ground. The dragonflies and some of the other animals, they were washed with these layers of mud. They weren’t the ones that were climbing trees or trying to get away. And so you have the floodwaters around the earth and you have the humans. Their bodies would float to the top and decay would take its course and you wouldn’t have a lot of human—

Doug Batchelor: Layers of mud on top of them creating fossils.

Jëan Ross: Right. You wouldn’t have the same type of fossil that you have for fish and for some of these other animals.

Thorson: Right. And that makes sense but at the same time it says, there was a lot of them so you would think that there’s a mammal also that was certainly intelligent that we have evidence of. And there’s almost a total, zero for evidence.

Doug Batchelor: Well, I actually went to—we’re going to have to take a break here in a minute but I went to Glenrose, Texas the Paluxy River. They’ve got these dinosaur bones. Maybe you have been there. I’ve been there and I’ve got my footprint down on the ground, my shoe, and I took a picture of my shoe next to a series of footprints that’s still there today, you can go look at it across this river, in the same layers as the dinosaur footprints. And these feet are like 18 inches long. They’re big and I got a big foot.

So anyway, I wish we could say more about that Thorson, I appreciate you calling from Eureka, California. And we have a study guide that we’ll offer you on that subject. You’re listening to Bible Answers Live.

Jëan Ross: You know Pastor Doug, we’re going to be coming upon our break in just a few moments. But we like to remind our listeners of some of our resources available online. There is website that we developed not long ago called

Doug Batchelor: That’s right, and before we forget, just for Thorson. I was going to say we have a study guide that’s called When Evolution Flunked the Science Test.

Jëan Ross: That’s right.

Doug Batchelor: It talks about this. When Evolution Flunked the Science Test, yes, but if you enjoy Bible study, if you want to know about chronology, and we were just talking about Bible history just a moment ago, you can check out that website, It’s got lots of information on the different characters in the Bible, all the way from Adam up to the end of time, how their lives overlap. It’s visual, so you can see it. You can click on any of these major Bible characters, it’ll open a whole page and give you their history. It’s illustrated. It talks about Bible prophecy. There is Bible prophecy timeline in there. And so just go to You’ll enjoy that resource.


Doug Batchelor: We are back, friends. Welcome if you joined us to Bible Answers Live. And if this is your first time tuning in, it’s a live international, interactive Bible study. You can call in with your Bible questions and we’ve got some lines open. That number (800)-463-7297. Of course, this is for North America. If you’re joining from around the world, you can do it via the Internet by just going to And one more time that number is (800) 463-7297 and my name is Doug Batchelor.

Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. We’re going to go to the phone lines. We have Jerry who is listening in Oregon. Jerry, welcome to the program.

Jerry: Thank you, Pastors Ross and Batchelor. In the New Testament, we hear things like “If you see Me, you’ve seen My Father,” and “My Father and I are one.” Furthermore, we don’t see Jesus doing anything violent perhaps other than driving out the money changers in the temple. But then in the New Testament in 1 Samuel, Chapter 15…

Doug Batchelor: You mean the Old Testament.

Jerry: Sorry, Old Testament. 1 Samuel 15:3, I read things like this. This is what the Lord says, “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” So I guess, how do we reconcile this. I mean, I can’t picture Jesus ordering such a thing.

Doug Batchelor: Well, first of all, they are the same God. I mean, Jesus said so. The God of the Old Testament that foretells the coming of His Son in the New Testament. There’s a perfect overlap between the Deities. So we’re not talking about two opposing or conflicting Deities. 10% of everything Jesus said, He’s quoting the Old Testament. And He always endorses the Old Testament.

Now, while we think about Jesus reflecting the love of God, and there’s plenty of evidence for the love of God in the Old Testament, keep in mind, the most fearful curses in the Bible are in the New Testament when it talks about the wrath of the Lamb…That’s talking about Jesus in Revelation. And it says that…You read the seven last plagues and it’s not just one tribe of people. It’s saying that all the tribes of the earth will mourn and they’ll see Him coming in the clouds of heaven. And there’s going to be bloody water and painful boils and scorching heat, and that’s still Jesus. It says that’s all the Lamb, the one sitting on the Throne.

So I think they’re consistent. I think people just need to say, “Why do we see this wrathful side at times and yet, He’s so loving and accepting?” It’s because God is so loving that when the wrathful things happen it really stands out.

Someone put it this way once, “one gun shot is heard more than a thousand prayers.” You can have thousand people praying and you may not know it because they could pray in their hearts. But if one person fires the gun, that’s all you’ll notice. And so the moments in history where God exercises wrath…By the way when He – in that verse you quoted in Samuel, 1 Samuel, when He commanded Saul to go basically exterminate the Amalekites, this is after 400 years of the Amalekites attacking the Israelites. The first attack you can read about is immediately when they came out of Egypt.

The Amalekites attacked the women and the weak and the old from behind. So they were a brutal, bloodthirsty people. They sacrificed their children and yes, God said, “Eradicate them.”

Jerry: Why would He also order the eradication of their animals?

Doug Batchelor: Well, they were actually pretty diseased people, I think. And I just don’t want to say too much on the radio but Moses has a law where he said that a man should not lie with an animal. The Amalekites were one of the examples that God was thinking of when He said that.

And so, that may be part of the reason that God said…They were worshipping their animals. They were doing incestuous things with their animals and God said the whole tribe…

Jëan Ross: I think part of it as well is there were some cases where God allowed. For example, judgment will come upon a nation and God would tell the Israelites destroy all of the men but save the women and children.

Other cases, it was women, children, men, and animals depending upon the degree of evilness or wickedness within that particular group.

In this case, particularly, I don’t think God wanted Israel to take anything from the Amalekites. They want to profit themselves from their animals. Because of the wickedness of Amalekites, God wanted to completely separate the Israelites from that group of people.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. And one more thing that’s very important on this, Jerry. The interesting note that most people miss, King Saul didn’t do what God said. He spared the King of the Amalekites and his family. Agag was his name. And because Agag’s family was spared, you go to the book of Esther, and this character appears by the name of Haman, he’s the Agagite, a descendant of the Amalekites makes a law to exterminate all of the Jews.

They had such a deep ingrained, longstanding hatred that God knows if you don’t exterminate them, their offspring, their ancestors will fight you forever. And so that may also be part of it.

Thank you. I appreciate your question, Jerry.

Jëan Ross: We have Scott, who is listening from California. Scott, welcome to the program.

Scott: Hey, how are you guys?

Doug Batchelor: Doing good, and your question tonight?

Scott: I’m calling on Malachi 4, 5, and 6. I think I’ve heard Pastor Doug preach on this but it’s in the Word of God and I don’t know if this is a literal Bible verse that Elijah is going to come back before the “great and dreadful day of the Lord.”

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, it says this in Malachi 5 – or Malachi 4. Sorry.

Scott: Huh?

Doug Batchelor: Yes, it says that in Malachi, Chapter 4.

Scott: You’re right. You corrected me. Malachi 4:5. And it says – is this a literal…Is He actually going to actually send Elijah or is it just his double or triple portion of His Holy Spirit, of God’s Holy Spirit.

Doug Batchelor: Alright! Well, the answer to that question is the first time that Elijah came is not in the New Testament. The first time that the spirit of Elijah came was when Elisha asks for a double portion of Elijah’s spirit.

And then John the Baptist, and you can read about this in Matthew 11, “John the Baptist,” Jesus said, “came in the spirit and the power of Elijah.” So we’re safe in assuming that in the last days that somebody is going to come again in the “spirit and power of Elijah.” It will not be a reincarnation of Elijah.

Scott: Oh, it won’t. So could you elaborate on the supernatural latter rain? Is that what we’re looking forward to because I know it’s not the early rain that the Apostles had?

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, I will. In the Bible, when the Holy Spirit was first sent in Pentecost, they called that the “former rain.” In the Jewish economy, the rain would come during the farming season. A former rain would sort of sprout the seed and get it growing, and just before the harvest, there was like later or “latter rain” that then plumped and ripened things before the harvest. It got the dust down. They all prayed for those latter rains.

In the same way, when Jesus first planted the seed of the Gospel, the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, it was the “former rain.” The church exploded with growth.

Before He comes again, before the harvest, there will be another outpouring of the Spirit. And that’s called the “latter rain.” And I think that’s what it’s talking about in Joel, Chapter 2.

Jëan Ross: You know there’s an interesting verse in James 5:7-8. It’s talking about the Second Coming. James writes, “Therefore, be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” So it’s the Second Coming. “See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently until it receives the early and latter rain. You also be patient and establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.”

So James tells us that before Jesus comes, there is the outpouring of the early rain, as we have seen in Pentecost. But there is also a “latter rain,” an outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the end of time that’ll prepare people for the Second Coming of Christ.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, absolutely. And we have a book that talks about the Holy Spirit called Man’s Flicker or God’s Flame. We’ll send you a free copy, Scott.

Jëan Ross: The number to call is (800)-835-6747. That is the resource line. You can ask for the book, Man’s Flicker or God’s Flame. I think it’s also called Life in the Spirit.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, that’d be better.

Jëan Ross: I will be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. It’s (800)-835-6747, ask for the book called Life in the Spirit and we’ll send that out to you.

We have Robert, who is listening from Las Vegas. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Hi! How are you doing? Hi, Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross! How are you?

Jëan Ross: We’re doing great.

Robert: Good, good! My question is, is the Spirit synonymous with the mind, or is it the same thing?

Doug Batchelor: Alright! Good question! In a word, I’d say no, they’re not the same because a person can have a mind and not have the Holy Spirit.

Now, when it talks about the spirit of man – and I want to be clear, we think things in our spirit and it’s actually…you think it with your brain, your minds. So in that sense, yeah, sometimes the word is interchangeable.

It’s not the same as the Holy Spirit and it’s possible for a person to have a mind and be carnally-minded and not have inspiration. Inspiration is when the Holy Spirit breathes into a person.

But many times in the Bible, if I understand your question, when it talks about in the spirit of man, it’s talking about what might be in the mind of man or in the heart of man. Is that what you’re wondering?

Robert: Well, I’m paraphrasing but somewhere in the Bible, it says that “God is Spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit.” And when I pray, I use my mind. It’s maybe a different mindset but that’s basically where I kind of get stumped.

Doug Batchelor: Well, you’re on the right track.

Jëan Ross: You know the verse, I think you’re referring to is John 4:24 where Jesus, speaking to the woman at the well says, “God is a Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Now, when it says there we need to worship God in “spirit” means have the right attitude when we come to God in prayer. We want to worship Him in truth but we also want to worship Him with a humble heart, with a willingness to do what He asks us to do, where we are listening for, and earnestly desiring to follow the Holy Spirit and instruction from the Holy Spirit through God’s Word.

So it’s having the right spirit, a humble spirit, or a humble heart when we come to God to worship Him.

Doug Batchelor: Yeah. And in Jude, it says, “Worship Him in the Holy Spirit.” So some people, like that Pharisee who prayed, “Lord, I thank you I’m not like other men.” He was praying but he wasn’t praying in the Spirit. It’s a proud prayer.

Robert: Yeah. That’s it. Very good.

Doug Batchelor: Alright! We appreciate your question.

Robert: I appreciate the answer.

Doug Batchelor: You’d also enjoy the book that we offered a moment ago. We’ll send you a free copy or you can read it online, Life in the Spirit.

Jëan Ross: The number for the free offer is (800)-835-6747 and the book is called Life in the Spirit. You can also go the Amazing Facts website,, click on the link that says Free Library and you can read the book right online. Again, it’s called Life in the Spirit. We have Gene who is listening from Connecticut. Gene, welcome to the program.

Gene: Hi!

Doug Batchelor: Hey! How are you doing?

Gene: I’m doing fine. Thank you for taking my call.

Doug Batchelor: And your question?

Gene: So I was watching a video and this guy was basically saying that…He was describing the appearance of Christ and he read that His hair was “white as wool.” He went to His eyes. He said His eyes were red. And he said the reason His eyes were red was because that…he said that Jesus drunk a lot of wine. And the text he used for that was in Matthew 11:19. I was wondering if you could elaborate on that?

Doug Batchelor: Well, yeah. First, let me elaborate, just make a little correction. In Revelation, it say “His eyes are red” per se. It says “like a flame of fire.” That means light. Most of us we have light go in our eyes, Jesus actually has light going out of His eyes.

And I think they’ve tried to reproduce that effect in Hollywood but no man has ever really seen what that looks like. I mean, this was a vision of God. It had nothing to do with Him drinking wine and His eyes being red.

I had to laugh because it doesn’t even say they’re red grapes. I mean, you can have white wine. But the verse here where Jesus is saying in John 11, I’ll start with Verse 18. “For John,” speaking of John the Baptist, and this is Matthew 11:18. “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’”

Earlier in the show tonight, we talked about the vow of a Nazarite, John had taken the vow of a Nazarite. He couldn’t eat anything from the vine. And so, they say, “Well, look, John Baptist, he didn’t even touch anything from the vine.” But Jesus is drinking grape juice and they accuse Him of being a glutton and a winebibber.

Well, Jesus was not a drunk, and He was not a glutton. They also accused Him of being a Samaritan, which He was not. And they accused Him of being the “Prince of Devils” which He was not.

So they accused Jesus of all kinds of things. It’s just saying what His enemies were calling Him. It’s not saying He really did those things. He did eat and drink with sinners because He went to a feast with Matthew at Levi’s house and they said, “Oh, He is even drinking with publicans.” But that had nothing to do with His eyes being the “flame of fire” in the Book of Revelation.

Gene: How do we know it was grape juice and not wine?

Doug Batchelor: Well, when Jesus had the Last Supper with His disciples, for instance. And they were to eat bread that was unleavened and the juice was to be unfermented because Jesus said during the dinner, “Drink of this grape juice I’m giving you,” or He called it wine. He said, “I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until I drink it with you again, new in My Father’s Kingdom.”

They had new wine and they had old wine. Jesus talked about “you don’t put new wine in old wineskins.” New wine is not fermented. The wine that Jesus drank, the wine that Jesus made at the wedding feast, we believe was new wine. We don’t believe He created a lot of booze for people to party because the Bible says in other places, “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, and whoever is deceived thereby is not wise.”

Eugene, if you’d like, I have a book that I wrote that specifically talks about what should be the Christian attitude for wine and alcohol. And you can read it for free, and that would just be going to Go to our free library there. You’ll click and see it, our free library. It’s called Alcohol and the Christian, or we’ll send you a copy. It’s your choice. And that number…

Jëan Ross: The number to call is (800)-835-6747. That is the resource line, and give us a call Gene. We’ll be happy to send you the book Alcohol and the Christian, or anyone who calls and asks for it. Our next caller is Nicholas and he is calling all the way from Nigeria. It’s a long way away. Nicholas, welcome to the program.

Nicholas: Thank you for taking my call Pastor Doug.

Doug Batchelor: Our pleasure. We’re actually talking about going to Nigeria sometime this year.

Nicholas: Wow! I’ll be glad to have you here. By the way, I attend the same denomination as you do you.

Doug Batchelor: Well, you know where Babcock University is. They’ve given us an invitation and we’re trying to work it in. So your question tonight?

Nicholas: Okay. My question is can an evil spirit be in the presence of the Lord?

Doug Batchelor: Well, you have where Satan…it says, “The sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,” in the book of Job, “and Satan came also among them.” I mean, he’s the ultimate evil spirit but sin cannot abide in the presence of God, how you can explain how the devil could come into the presence of God is … He’s the Prince of the Rebels, I suppose.

Nicholas: Okay.

Doug Batchelor: Whenever Jesus encountered evil spirits, they use to cry out. So they were certainly uncomfortable. So is that answering your question?

Nicholas: Yeah. I was wondering because I had a discussion with someone. And it wasn’t…

Jëan Ross: Oh, we might have lost Nicholas there.

Doug Batchelor: Internet connection from Nigeria. [Crosstalk] Yeah, I hope that helps a little bit.

In 1 Kings, you got that example where Micaiah talks about this evil spirit that…

Jëan Ross: The lying spirits that go out to the King. Yup, King Ahab. Alright. We have our next caller Richard listening from Minnesota. Richard, welcome to the program.

Richard: Minnesota, can you hear me?

Doug Batchelor: Yes!

Richard: Thank you for your ministry. I appreciate it. My question was when the Lord presented Eve to Adam, he didn’t say, “Well,” instead He said, “Know that a man should leave his father and mother to cleave to his wife.”

Doug Batchelor: Yeah, Genesis 2:24.

Richard: So, the question is why did He say ‘mother’?

Doug Batchelor: Well, I don’t know that Adam is making this statement. It says that “Adam declares, ‘this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh and she shall be called woman because she was taken out of man.’” It simply says, “Therefore, shall a man,” and it might Moses’ commentary or God’s commentary on how the woman was made.

“Therefore, a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and they,” so it’s not Adam speaking. Someone on the outside speaking about the man and the woman, “they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife.”

So I’m not sure that it’s a statement that Adam was making but God was saying that the ideal, when you start a new family unit is you need to move out from underneath the authority of the original family so that you can establish an independent home. And this is God’s design.

Sometimes, you get too many families living under one roof, and the roles get mixed up. And sometimes, there is conflict that is unnecessary. God wants our homes to be a place of peace.

Richard: I certainly appreciate that. Thank you for your ministry again.

Doug Batchelor: Thank you. We appreciate your call, Richard.

Jëan Ross: We’re waiting for a caller to come through. Richard, we do have a book talking a little bit about marriage and remarriage. Sometimes, we get questions dealing with the subject of marriage, and we’ll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. It’s a book Pastor Doug that you actually wrote called “Marriage, Remarriage…”

Doug Batchelor: “Marriage, Divorce…”

Jëan Ross: Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage – dealing with those subjects. If you’d call our resource line (800)-835-6747 and you can ask for the book on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage, We’d be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks.

We also have a study guide called Keys to a Happy Marriage that we’ll be happy to give to anyone who calls and ask for that.

Friends, we have just a few minutes left but we have some phone lines still open. If you’d like to get your Bible question on the air on tonight’s program, the number to call is (800)-463-7297. Again, (800)-463-7297 and we’ll try and get your question on the air tonight.

Doug Batchelor: You know, I heard something interesting happened this last week that should be a matter of concern for all Christians. The president of the Mormon Church, and while I might respectfully disagree with some of the theology of our Mormon friends, the president of the Mormon church has been summoned to England to appear before the Magistrates there to defend the Mormon belief because they think that their beliefs are not true and that they’re taking money for their theology for the denomination based on untrue things.

Now, while I might also agree that different denominations have things that I don’t agree with that are true, it’s really concerning that the British Court would summon the leader of a denomination to defend the beliefs of that denomination.

And I mean, theoretically, he could be extradited, probably won’t be. At the least, if he ignores the summons, he could be arrested if he were to set foot on British soil.

So this is very troubling because I admit it could happen to anybody’s denomination. The courts start to evaluate if they think your teachings are true.

I think we have another call on line three.

Jëan Ross: Alright! Let’s see if we can bring Robert on. I think he’ll be ready in just a minute. They’re busy getting things lined up on the other side.

Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Hello!

Jëan Ross: Yes, you’re on the air. We have about 2 minutes left.

Robert: My question is, first of all, thank you for taking my call. My question is, is my religion and my wife’s religion are two separate ones and we both have an eight year old. So how do we go about teaching him the correct way and bring him up in the way he should be when the two religions basically conflicts with each other.

Doug Batchelor: Now, are both religions – just for clarity – are both religions Christian religions or are they totally different religions? Are they two different Christian denominations?

Robert: Well, mine is a Christian religion. Hers is – they call themselves Christians but I’m not real sure they are. No, I’m not allowed to mention their denomination.

Doug Batchelor: That’s okay. That’s alright. Well yeah, we try to focus on the principles and not really go anyone specific denomination.

But Jesus said, “It’s hard for two to walk together if they’re not agreed.” Now, you would hope that the children would be raised, being taught the Bible. The ideal would be for the family to be one. The Bible says, “We should be of one flesh.”, that you could present to the children the Biblical truth. And I would also pray – you and your wife to pray and say, “Alright, dear, let’s set aside our preconceived ideas. Let’s get the Bible out. Let’s study together and let’s find out for ourselves what it says,” and pray that the Lord will bring unity into the relationship at that point.

As a matter of fact, I’d recommend that we could send them Amazing Facts Bible study guides. And you take that Robert. Just go to the Amazing Facts website or you could even go to, download our study guides, study it right there. And that will bring some unity to the family.

Well friends, that wraps up our time for another week. We’d love to hear from you, Tell us if the program has been a blessing.

God bless! Until we talk again next week!

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