Date: 07/29/2007 
There is more noise in the ocean than merely the lapping of waves or bubbling fish. Humans may not hear many ocean sounds when underwater because of...
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? There is more noise in the ocean than merely the lapping of waves or bubbling fish. Humans may not hear many ocean sounds when underwater because of a pocket of air in the outer ear that blocks them. But upon using an underwater microphone you'll discover the ocean is full of amazing sounds.

Dolphins chatter and triggerfish grate their teeth together. Seahorses rub their heads against their backs. But among the loudest creatures in the deep is a finger-sized shrimp with an oversized claw, resembling a boxing glove. The pistol shrimp snaps shut a specialized claw to create a cavitation wave that generates noise like gunshots in excess of 200 decibels.

This sea creature blasts bubbles at over 60 miles an hour producing a sharp, cracking sound; and it creates a temperature comparable to that of the sun. The sound will not only scare off enemies, but it's capable of killing small fish. In fact, when colonies of pistol shrimp snap their claws, the cacophony is so intense that submarines can take advantage of it to hide from sonar.

However, the greatest noise-maker in the ocean are whales. The song of the humpback whales consist of vast roars, deep bellows and groans interspersed with interesting sighs, chirps and squawks. And the songs go on for 10 minutes and more. Once completed, the whale will repeat it again and again for hours.

Each year, the song tunes change somewhat as the whale seems to experiment with different arrangements. The largest creature in the world is, of course, the blue whale. Some have been measured at 100 feet in length and they live to be about 100 years old. It has the largest lungs in the world as well as makes the most noise.

Blasts of 188 decibels have been reported, making the blue whale much louder than a jet, which reaches only 140 decibels. This extraordinary, ear-splitting whistle can be heard for hundreds of miles underwater. Theoretical calculations once predicted that the loudest whale sounds could be transmitted across an entire ocean.

Friends, you know there are some people who think the second coming of Jesus is going to be a quiet event; yet the Bible teaches it is connected with a tremendous noise that will be heard across land and sea. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends. You have found your way to Bible Answers Live. Right now, you're listening to a live, international, interactive broadcast, and you can participate. You can listen of course. If you have a Bible question, we welcome your calls. It's a toll-free number and right now there are a lot of lines open.

So pick up your phone and you've got a good chance of getting your question on tonight's broadcast. That number again is 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. And the third thing you can do is pray for us as we search the Word together to find the answers. We want to find the truth for people and it's found in that blessed book, the Bible. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, welcome back. You were out of town last week. We're glad that you made it safe and sound.

Pastor Doug: Yes. We were down there in Metagene, Columbia doing a satellite broadcast. I thought I spoke a little Spanish until I got there and people were chattering to me. I really spoke Spanish (chuckles).

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well we're glad to have you back. Let's start the program with a word of prayer. Dear Father, once more as we open up the Bible, we ask for Your Holy Spirit's guidance and leading. Be with those who are listening to the program tonight, and those who will call in. And, we also pray for wisdom as we open up Your word. For this we ask in Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Jëan Ross: We didn't realize until after the amazing fact that opened the program this evening that the ocean was as noisy as it is. Some huge animals making tremendous noise and it's not quiet. You walk on the beach and you hear the waves, but when you actually get down with the right type of equipment-- [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Have you done some snorkeling before?

Pastor Jëan Ross: I have, yes.

Pastor Doug: If you get out there on those coral reefs you can always hear the parrotfish chewing away at the coral; and so you always hear something. But I guess if you have one of those underwater microphones--

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right.

Pastor Doug: --for the air pocket, it's--

Pastor Jëan Ross: You hear a whole lot more.

Pastor Doug: Yes. It's very loud. And I've heard these songs of the whales they speak of and I've heard the pistol shrimp before [cross talk]

Pastor Jëan Ross: And you actually heard?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I did. You wonder what in the world was that?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Wow!

Pastor Doug: And they are very loud. You hear these pops and snaps. But you know, it made me think that the roar of these whales being heard across the ocean--and the Bible says that the second coming of the Lord is going to be like a roar--the Lord will roar when He comes. It says He's descending from heaven with a shout.

And you can read in 2nd Peter--and that, by the way, that first Scripture is 1st Thessalonians chapter 4, verse 16--2nd Peter chapter 3, verse 10, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise." There are people I've heard interviewed who survived tornadoes. And one of the common things they say is, "It is the loudest thing I've ever heard. It was like a freight train going through the living room."

The second coming of Jesus, the Bible tells us, every word that the Bible has to describe something of incredible volume is used in connection with the second coming; and yet, in spite of the fact it says it's a shout, it's a trumpet, it's a roar, it's a great noise like thunder and lightning, there are people who think the second coming is a secret.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hum

Pastor Doug: And it's sad, you know. It's a relatively new doctrine that's not at all been Biblical but there's nothing secret about when Jesus comes again. The heavens are going to pass away with this great noise. It'll be louder than, I understand, the volcanic eruption of Krakatoa, which was heard halfway around the world. One-third of the earth could hear the percussion of that.

Well, imagine what the second coming is going to be like when the heavens split. So, there might be some friends out there who are wondering, "What Scriptures do you have that say the second coming is not a secret?" And we've got a whole book that talks about the majesty of the second coming and just filled with Scriptures.

And I must tell you in advance that this book does not go along with the popular Left Behind scenario for the second coming. It's really talking about the traditional Protestant view of every eye seeing Him when He comes. And it also places the tribulation appropriately in connection with the second coming.

So we'd encourage people, if you've got any questions about this subject, the volume of the second coming, and how it's going to happen, we've got a free offer for you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It's easy to remember. The booklet is entitled, Anything But Secret, dealing with the second coming of Jesus. Friends, to receive that, call the resource number, 1-800-835-6747, and ask for the little booklet, Anything But Secret. We'll be happy to send that out to you.

Pastor Doug, we have two questions that have come to us via email. The first one is this, "Why did Jesus ask that the cup of suffering be taken away from Him if He knew it was necessary for our salvation?"

Pastor Doug: Well, I think that Jesus knew all along He was going to the cross. He told the disciples on many occasions. He said, "We're going to Jerusalem. I will be betrayed. I'll be crucified. I'll rise the third day." We need to keep in mind the very fact that passages in the Bible mean someone was hearing them.

Some of the disciples that were not far away heard Him pray, and they recorded that for us. And I think some of what Jesus did, He did for the benefit of those around. He was, I think, emphasizing the truth: there was no other way. I think He was also emphasizing the truth that He loathed separation from the Father. And He said if there's any other way for Him to redeem man without being separated from the Father, without being just, basically, saturated with the sins of the world, that He was looking for another way.

The very fact that there was no other way tells us that how much God loves us. Furthermore, when Christ prayed, "Not My will, Thy will be done," He set the stage for us. That really should be the prayer of every converted Christian.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: "We're willing to do whatever You want us to do that You might be glorified."

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, the phrase that Jesus spoke there, "Not My will, but Thy will be done," if you balance that with what Jesus said, "If it is possible, let this cup be taken away," we understand how hard it was, in one sense, for Jesus to be able to take upon Himself the sins of the world; burdened with guilt, and yet, willingly submit to His Father's will.

Pastor Doug: Um-hmm

Pastor Jëan Ross: It shows us the great sacrifice that was made for us.

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Second question, "Can you be doing something with the right motive in your heart, but still be very wrong in God's eyes?"

Pastor Doug: Well yes. Sometimes people, they've got the right motive because they're, sort of, self-deceived. Matter of fact, speaking of the lost in the last days, it says, "If they receive not a love of the truth, God will send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie." They'll be very sincere. They believe it, but they're believing a lie--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --because they did not receive the love of the truth. You can also find in the Bible where you've got people like the Apostle Paul, who was killing Christians. Very sincere in his heart, but very wrong. And Jesus had to stop him. Christ basically said this would happen in John chapter 16, verse 2. He says, "They'll put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think he's serving God."

Now that's still going to happen again in the future. Those who are worshiping the beast and his image will think they're worshiping God, just like Cain thought he was making an offering to God, then he killed his brother. So sincerity is not always a good cloak for going the wrong way.

Pastor Jëan Ross: I once heard someone say that it's not only what we know that God judges us by, but what we could know.

Pastor Doug: That's a good point. Matter of fact, Hosea chapter, is it chapter 4, verse 6? It says, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:" Then it goes on to say, "because you have rejected knowledge." Sometimes we reject the opportunities to know.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hm, um-hm. So sincerity doesn't take the place of us ignoring the revealed will of God.

Pastor Doug: That's exactly right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Let's go to the phone lines. Our first caller tonight is Gil listening on WMCA from New York, New York. Gil, welcome to the program.

Gil: Hi Doug, this is Gil; and hi my friend there. I miss you Doug. I'm glad you're back and I love your program very much; and I tell a lot of people about it. You probably remember who I am. I'm also--

Pastor Doug: Well thank you Gil. I appreciate it.

Gil: I have a question about the Song of Solomon. You know, for example, there are some people that believe that the Song of Solomon is basically for just Christ and the church. And then there's another group that believes that it applies to the love of the husband for the wife and all of that. You know, you have verses like chapter 2, verse 16, "My love is mine and I am his." And you have 4, verse 10 where it says, "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride!" How do we draw the line? How do we apply to those if we're not married and if we are married?

Pastor Doug: Alright. That's a good question. My answer for you would be that it's both. The Word of God, Gil, is multidimensional. I think that when you look at a passage, of course you can say, "This Song of Solomon is basically a script for a bride and her groom." And there are a lot of lessons about love.

I heard a minister do a series on the Song of Solomon that talked about relationships and marriage. And it had very powerful lessons in there that are very practical. Then, of course, the parallels between Christ and the church, the bride, are also there. I don't think it's either or; I think you can do both.

You've got a literal, and you've got a practical, and a spiritual application for this passage; and I think the Lord wants us to be able to enjoy all of that. So, you've got, for instance, in the Song of Solomon when he says, "My sister and my spouse," it's interesting that Abraham married his sister. She was his sister, his spouse. And the relationship between Christ and the church--He is our Creator; and yet, He comes from the church. He is the product of the woman in Revelation 12.

And so, in the Song of Solomon it talks about frankincense and myrrh. And this is what is brought to Jesus as a child. There are just many, many parallels in here about Christ's love for the church. I don't have time to go through it. I'm tempted to do that. I've got the book open right now, but I think that I've answered your question Gil. So hopefully, that will help.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for your call Gil. Our next caller is Joseph listening on WMCA from New York, New York. Joseph, welcome to the program.

Joseph: Hello gentlemen

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Joseph: I was reading the Bible a few days ago, and I saw something that puzzled me. I was reading about the crucifixion of Jesus. And it had to do with Mark, and also Matthew.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Joseph: And one version I thought it said that the thieves on the cross went along with the crowd when they hurled the epithets at Jesus.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Joseph: And then the other version said that one of them asked for His help. So the versions are different. Could you please straighten that out? I'm a little puzzled.

Pastor Doug: Okay, that's a good question Joseph. If you read in Matthew and Mark, possibly John, I don't remember, it tells us that not only did the people around the cross reviled Christ, but the thieves engaged in it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Do you have that verse?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah. You can find it in Matthew chapter 27, verse 44. It says, "The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth."

Pastor Doug: Now keep in mind, they were on the cross for about six hours, Joseph, so a lot of things can happen in that period of time. I mean, I can't imagine what it would be like to be around the cross for half an hour.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But evidently at first, shortly after the crucifixion, both thieves began to join with the crowd and say, "You know, if You're the Christ, save us." But somewhere along the way, the Holy Spirit began to work on one of the thieves. We hypothesize it's the one on the right. And he said, "Lord," and this is Luke chapter 23:42 is the only place you find this. He said, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."

Now this must be very close to the end of those six hours. And Jesus said, "You'll be with Me today in paradise." So, there's no inconsistency here. At first, they all did join in, but as time went by, one of these thieves evidently had a change of heart. The Holy Spirit revealed that Jesus was the Messiah by the way He conducted Himself.

Joseph: Did you say just prior to my getting on the phone that Abraham married his sister?

Pastor Doug: She was his half-sister. Sarah and Abraham had the same father but different mothers.

Joseph: Okay. Okay thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you Joseph.

Joseph: Thank you

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Casey. He's listening from Long Island, New York, also listening on WMCA. Casey, welcome to the program.

Casey: Hi, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Good. How can we help you Casey?

Casey: Well, I had quite the interesting week. This week, I had a friend that was a Christian. I accepted the Lord when I was 15 years old and none of my family is saved; and my friend that accepted the Lord was around the same time. Now he's, like, kind of denying God. Anyway, I know this sounds perplexing, but I had a conversation with him and now it's, like 15 years later; and it was very upsetting to hear. And then, I had another friend who is a Christian now, who wasn't a Christian back then around the same--I had these friends for the same amount of time. And now, I know this sounds like I'm jumping from two different things, but um, he told me today that he thinks that the television is the beast.

Pastor Doug: Alright, okay.

Casey: And that, and--I mean, I've been having a hard enough time relaxing; and I'm really, like, like, I already have a double, like, trying to basically, like, like I--

Pastor Doug: Are you wondering if...well first of all, I think you probably know the TV is not technically the beast of Revelation 13. So, is that your question?

Casey: Right. Well it's just that, I mean, when someone says that and he's like, you know, he's, kind of, a new Christian. He's on this like, fervent, like path where, you know, he, you know, he's not watching TV, and he's--and I understand all of this stuff--but at the same time, it's like I find myself at this point very vulnerable to uh, you know, Christians giving me some things. Like, like, I don't understand like, when he said that, he said like the beast; and he talked about the image. And I guess my question is just basically, do you think that the beast is, you know--

Pastor Doug: Television?

Casey: Right. I, I understand the devil can use the technology, but, like, he was saying that people worship TV. And, you know, I watch TV. I don't know if you watch TV, but, I mean it's like, it was just very upsetting; and I, you know, I just want to serve God, and I'm just trying to get--it has been a battle.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Well, you know what I think Casey? Obviously, some people think it's the beast because the Bible talks about the image of the beast. And they say because images are communicated from a TV--I think I've heard this before--that the TV is the beast.

Well obviously, television is a medium. It's simply a tool to communicate visual and audio information. Radio, which we're using right now, communicates audio information. The TV adds the visual component. It's a very powerful communication tool. But obviously, God can use that tool; and right now, I hope the Lord is using the medium of radio.

Most of the programming is not something that is probably spiritual edifying. I would say the vast majority of programming is designed to capture people's attention to sell products. It's not designed to edify you spiritually. But, you know, Amazing Facts does TV programs. There are a lot of Bible and sermon programs that are very good on TV.

So, is the TV the beast? No. Is it a tool that will be used, a communication tool in the last days, yes; it will, no doubt, be used by the devil. It's being used by him right now. And I know the Lord can use it. So hope that helps a little bit. You know, we do have a lesson that we'll send you Casey; and it's called, The Mark of the Beast, and it talks about what the beast is. We'll send that to you just for asking.

Pastor Jëan Ross: All you'll need to do is call the resource number. It's 1-800-835-6747 Casey, and we'll be happy to send that out to you. Just ask for the study guide, The Mark of the Beast. Our next caller is Joseph listening on WOCG from Huntsville, Alabama. Joseph, welcome to the program.

Joseph: Thank you Pastor Doug. I have a very general question I'd like for you to answer. A dear friend of mine who has recently read--

Pastor Doug: Get a little closer to your phone Joseph. I can barely hear you.

Joseph: Okay. They have recently read the Ten Commandments Twice Removed and are very committed to the Sabbath truth that was presented there; have visited some of the local Sabbath-keeping churches, but is used to having some new churches that pretty much provide child care during 11:00 service. And that is quite important. So there's been an opt to go to the Sunday church where the children could be kept, even though the Sabbath is understood; and doesn't really find favor with the Sabbath-keeping churches that have been visited. So that has become the choice. What would be a fair, general, Scriptural support for such a person, and not driving them away from the word?

Pastor Doug: Right. Well, it's nice to have a room to which you can retreat during a church service. If you have young children that become rambunctious--and I don't mean when they're two or three years old and they start to squirm--I think children can and should be taught to sit still.

They usually, during their Sunday or Sabbath school program, they get more attention and they can get the jitters out. And when they come in for worship service, children can be taught to sit still and be reverent. You've got verses in the Bible where when Jesus taught all day long, sometimes people would sit and not even remember to eat. And it says there were women and children in those assemblies.

In the book of Ezra when He read the Scriptures, it talks about the women and children that were all gathered there and they listened for hours. So right now, churches are marketing their program to get families to come. And one way they do that is they say to the moms and the dads, "You can just relax and leave your kids with someone else and sit back and enjoy the worship service."

I'm not sure that's the best template. I really think that families should come together as a community for the primary worship service. And that's not something that is just taught by Sabbath-keeping Christians. It used to be foundational for all Christians in all churches. So those are the principles I'd use, Joseph. Did that make sense?

Joseph: Oh absolutely. I'm just wanting to be very sensitive to another person's view. At the same time, I don't want to miss the opportunity to encourage one not to let having child-free worship to be a priority over disassociating oneself from what could be exposure to non-Scriptural doctrine--

Pastor Doug: Right

Joseph: --just because they provide child care so that you can have somewhat of a break from your children. And I tend to be a little opinionated and pretty strong on my opinions. So I found it to be more diplomatic to try to get you guys--you do a really good job--and I think what you've told me will serve the great purpose in my effort to support this very dear person.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, one other thing, Joseph, while I was listening to this. One challenge that I think that could arise is if the parents are going, perhaps, to a Sunday church for the purpose of their children, and yet at home, they're teaching or telling their children that the Sabbath is a day when we ought to worship and gather before God, eventually, the children are going to be asked questions, "Why is it that we're going to church on Sunday just for the children's program when the Bible is teaching us to go to church on the seventh day?" So that could create some controversy down the line.

Pastor Doug: Yup, that's true.

Pastor Jëan Ross: So it's not worth compromising just for the sake of the children. Our next caller is Ed and he is calling from Cedar Springs, Michigan, listening on WSFP. Ed, welcome to the program.

Ed: Good evening

Pastor Doug: Hi

Ed: I got a question to ask Doug.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Ed: Is he there?

Pastor Doug: Yes, can you hear me?

Ed: Yeah I can hear you Doug.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Ed: Brother Doug. Okay. You know, I have a hard time saying this to you, Pastor Doug, but I'm going to say it anyways you know. I would like to know that, you know, the rapture isn't Biblical, right?

Pastor Doug: The secret rapture is not Biblical.

Ed: Yeah, the secret rapture is not Biblical. And it's not in the Greek or, you know, oh what is it? I'm trying to--

Pastor Doug: The Greek or Hebrew Scriptures?

Ed: Yeah, yeah, Greek or--it's not in any of that right? I'm just wanting to know why you mentioned the rapture, you know? I'm just curious, you know, why you--

Pastor Doug: Why am I using the word, in other words?

Ed: Yeah, yeah.

Pastor Doug: Oh okay. Well there are a lot of words that we use that aren't in the Bible. We talk about the millennium, and the millennium is simply a word we use to describe the 1,000

years in Revelation 20. It does teach 1,000 years. The word "millennium" means a "milli", thousand; "annum", years.

The "Trinity", you don't find the word "trinity" in the Bible, but the tri-entities of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it makes sense to use that as a descriptive term. The word "rapture", when it talks in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 that we'll be "caught up." When someone is in rapt awe it means they're "caught up" in something; and it means "to be carried away with."

Matter of fact, that's related to the word "rape", which means "to be carried away by force or by power." So the teaching of being carried away or caught up, is a Biblical teaching; and that's 1st Thessalonians chapter 4. And again, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 17, Luke 21, we're going to be caught up when the Lord comes to meet Him in the air.

So that's the reason we use that term, even though the idea of the "secret" rapture is certainly not in the Bible. I don't know if we have uh...nope, the engineer says before the break we don't have time to take another question. But don't hang up friends, because we're coming back. And we'll have more questions.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we have a study guide dealing with the subject of the second coming of Christ and we want to make it available to anyone listening. Call the resource number and ask for the study guide, The Ultimate Deliverance, and we'll be happy to send that out to you.

Pastor Doug: Yup, that's another one. It talks about the second coming. Don't go away friends. We're coming back. And in the meantime, I hope you've got some utensil to chisel on a piece of paper, a pen will work, and write down That is the website that ends up becoming a conduit to thousands of pages of information and other websites that is a virtual encyclopedia of Biblical truth. And there are videos you can watch; there are archives of this program; there are pictures; and books you can read; there's a free library; there's a whole supermarket full of spiritual resources, and materials, and DVDs, and cassettes, and CDs.

Make sure and check out the website, Also, you'll find on that website a radio and TV log that tells of other stations where you can hear and watch Amazing Facts for our weekly TV programs. We're on a number of networks around the country on television; and you can find that out and pass it on. We'll be right back.


Pastor Doug: We are back and this is live; and we have space for you to call. If you have a Bible question, well, providentially God may have design for you to call in your question tonight. So why don't you find out? Pick up the phone and dial the free number, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. And that translates into 1-800-463-7297. My name is Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, we'd like to just mention here at the halfway point in the program, first of all some great websites that folks can go to for further

study of these important Biblical topics. You mentioned Amazing Facts, but there are some other great websites.

Pastor Doug: The flagship, of course, is We have And there's, again, a place where you can go and just enroll in online Bible studies that will take you all the way from the basics of understanding Scripture, all the way through the deeper themes of prophecy. That's

Pastor Jëan Ross: And that's free!

Pastor Doug: Free! Yeah, you can do that online, several options in several languages; Spanish, English, Arabic, Farsi, Portuguese. And so there are many languages in which these lessons are translated. We get a lot of questions. People are asking about the Bible teaching on everything from heaven to hell.

We do have a website because there's so much misinformation. We see a question on our screen right now dealing with this subject, on the subject of hell; and it's called, It's a very attractive website. It has a lot of encouraging and very profound information on that subject.

Another topic that is--oh we have another question this hour on that--on the subject of the Sabbath, Simply type in "sabbath truth." Matter of fact, the Google rates said it's one of the highest-rated websites dealing with the traffic on that question. So we recommend It's got the history, what the Bible says, the trends and movements; and I think you'll find that interesting.

So take a look at some of those links. And we've got one more link. I'll mention the link, and you can tell us why. If you've got a pencil, write down Why am I giving that website away Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Probably right after or below that website that you just wrote down, you might want to write the dates, September 7th through the 14th.

Pastor Doug: (Laughs)

Pastor Jëan Ross: We're going to be doing something exciting from Lansing, Michigan. Pastor Doug is going to be doing a ten-part revival series dealing with some of the most important Bible topics. Pastor Doug, what are some of the things you're going to be talking about?

Pastor Doug: Well some of the subjects we just mentioned we're going to be talking about what the Bible truth is; some of these controversial subjects. Everything from what the Bible really says about the punishment of the wicked; and we're going to talk about salvation; the second coming, is it a secret;--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: --some of the misinformation that has crept into the church over the years; we're going to explode and expose those things, and really just to exalt what the truth is--for 10 nights, there from the Lansing, Michigan Convention Center. Oh friends, if you're anywhere within a couple hundred miles' drive to at least one of the programs, go to the website.

We'd like to shake your hand. We'll be there in person. It's called, Here We Stand. And if you go to, you'll see the dates that's coming up this September from September 7th to 14.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course, we forgot to mention but it's important. This will be broadcast live on So if you have access to the 3ABN television station, you'll be able to watch this live.

Pastor Doug: Just about anyone with a Dish Network can now get 3ABN, so that's very exciting news. I was just talking to the founder before the program and he's very excited that now they're on the Dish Network as well.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay, we'll go to the phone lines. Debbie is listening from Queens, New York on WMCA. Debbie, welcome to the program.

Debbie: Hi. I would like to know why the Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

Pastor Doug: Okay, good question Debbie, and I think you're speaking in general terms because, of course, there are some Jews that do believe. I'm a Jewish Christian; and I have, of course, believed Jesus is the Messiah. But I know that I'm probably the vast minority.

There are a number of Messianic Jews that believe Jesus is the Messiah; but probably 95% do not--I'm just pulling that out of the air but I bet it's over 90% that do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And the reasons are, some of it is traditional. They've just heard it for 1,900 years that the Messiah hasn't come yet.

I believe that when sincere Jews do look at the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah, and then look at the life of Jesus, they become very convicted that there is tremendous evidence that Jesus is the Messiah.

For instance, the Jews believe the Psalms of David. Many of the Psalms are very explicit that His hands and His feet would be pierced; His clothing would be gambled for; that He would be surrounded. Jesus said from the cross, Psalm 22, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: That's how the Psalm begins, and that's exactly what He said on the cross. Later down in the Psalm, it describes His suffering. Isaiah 53 describes the suffering of the

Messiah, the Servant of God and that He would bear our sins. So there are so many Old Testament prophecies that point to Christ telling what town He would be born in; that the Messiah would come from Bethlehem of Judah, that's where Jesus came from.

And it goes on and on. Matter of fact, many Protestant Bibles in the back are going to have a list of Old Testament prophecies and New Testament fulfillments of how Christ is the fulfillment of that.

Now I've got a book, Debbie, that I wrote with another fellow Jew, and it's called, Spiritual Israel. It talks a little bit about these issues of Judaism, and the Bible, and Christianity. And personally, I believe, I'm biased; but I believe that the Jews make some of the best preachers. I mean, Jesus did pick 12 Jews to introduce the Gospel to the Gentiles.

And I think there's going to be a big revival of faith among the Jewish people before the second coming; and so let's hope that your question will help contribute to that.

Debbie: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you. I hope that helps to answer.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Joe and he is listening on KFIA from Vacaville, California. Joe, you're on the air with Pastor Doug.

Joe: How are you this evening?

Pastor Doug: Good evening, how are you doing?

Joe: Just fine. Okay, my question then. My King James Bible, I have a couple of maps. One, it shows Paul's ministry journey; the other one, Jesus' ministry. And then the other one is the Land of the Twelve Tribes.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Joe: Well after looking at all of the names, where's Levi and Joseph? There's Manasseh and Ephraim. They were Joseph's sons.

Pastor Doug: Okay--hey, I think I can take a stab at answering that. When the 12 tribes went down to Egypt, there were really 12 of them, including Joseph. Joseph, while in Egypt, had two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. Because Joseph was separated from his brethren while he was a captive in Egypt, the father later said in Genesis, Jacob said, "Your two sons are going to share an equal share.

Instead of Joseph having one portion out of 12, Joseph would, sort of, be set aside and his two sons would receive an inheritance as though they were sons of Jacob. That was sort of Jacob's way to compensate for Joseph being torn away from him for 30 years. Ephraim and Manasseh are not sons of Jacob, they're grandsons.

But then you end up with 13. So the way the Lord dealt with that is, in the wilderness, after the Ten Commandments were given, God said, "I'm going to make Levi the priest for all 12 tribes. Levi will not get a separate territory, but all the tribes will give area to Levi so that the Levites could spread among, like salt, among the 12 tribes and to minister."

And so, you won't see in the maps of the division anything for Joseph because it's given to his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. And you won't see anything for Levi because the Levites were given suburbs all around all of the major capitol cities.

Joe: I read the Bible really good. I should have realized, but when I looked at the map, it didn't really comprehend with me.

Pastor Doug: Don't feel bad. The first couple of times I went through the Bible, it didn't register with me and it gradually sank in what had happened.

Joe: Thank you very much Pastor.

Pastor Doug: Alright, appreciate that, good question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Jenny, listening on KOPG from Miltona, Minnesota.

Jenny: Hi Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Hi Jenny, thanks for calling.

Jenny: Yes. I have a question on Revelation 20, verse 10.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Jenny: It talks about the devil, and the beast, and the false prophet; and they're cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Jenny: And then it says, "And they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Pastor Doug: Yes

Jenny: Now, I know that the wicked do not burn forever and ever in sheol, but it says here that um, can you explain this one where it says that?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, in Revelation 20, verse 10.

Jenny: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Let me read it for our friends. "And the devil that deceived them was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and they are tormented day and night for ever and ever." Well if you go down to verse 14, it goes on to say, "And death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Now, many people may die the first death; but you can be a Christian, you die the first death and you can be resurrected, never to die again. But anyone who dies the second death, there is no resurrection; there's no hope from that death. Now before I answer your question about Revelation 20:10, I want to take you to two Old Testament examples.

When Jonah was in the bottom, and this is Jonah chapter 2, when Jonah is in the bottom of the ocean and the bottom of a whale's belly, he says, "The earth with her bars was about me for ever." Well, Jonah did not stay in the belly of the whale forever. It probably felt like forever, but it was three days and three nights.

And then when Samuel was brought by his mother to the temple, she said that, "I've brought him here that he might serve before the LORD in the temple for ever." Well forever meant as long as he lives. In the Greek here where it says "for ever and ever," the word "ever" is "ion," and it's saying from ion until ion. An ion was an undetermined period of time.

So in the original, basically what it's saying, a loose translation would be, "The devil is going to be tormented with the false prophet day and night until they're gone for good."

Jenny: Okay. So they will from--kind of--day and night. They're not going to just burn up instantly, or--

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Satan is going to burn longer than anyone because Jesus said everyone is punished according to what he deserves. Now that would probably be evidence enough, but if you look at, is it Ezekiel 28, Pastor Ross, where it talks about the fate of the devil? And it says, "You shall be a terror, and never shall you be any more." "I'll bring forth a fire from the midst of thee. It will devour thee. I'll bring you to ashes on the earth in the sight of them that behold thee."

Jenny: Okay that's in Ezekiel?

Pastor Doug: Ezekiel 28, I think you start with verse 12. Pastor Ross is looking that up. I'm winging it right now.

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Doug: And it says, "Never shalt thou be any more." Now, you put that together with the other verses that say, God says, "I will make all things new." If there's an old devil that is forever outside and in some infernal fountain burning, well he's not new. And then, again, it says, "There's no more pain," and this is in the same book, Revelation, "no more pain." If there's a devil forever being tormented out there after God makes the new heaven and the earth, how can He say there's no more pain?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: You've got that verse there?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah. That verse is Ezekiel chapter 26, verse 21. It says, "I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: they shall seek for thee, but they shall find thee not."

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's Ezekiel 26:21.

Pastor Doug: So whenever you've got a situation in the Bible where it looks like there's an apparent contradiction, you take the weight of evidence. You've got the one verse here in Revelation 20:10; and then you've got a dozen verses in other parts of the Bible that say that the devil and evil will be no more.

So, he's going to burn, probably day and night several days; and then he will be no more. He will be burnt up forever and ever. He will never be again. We'll never have to worry about the devil returning.

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: Just one other thing on that Pastor Doug. In Isaiah 34 and also Exodus chapter 21, verse 6, it speaks of a servant serving his master forever. And again, that would have the idea of as long as he lives.

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: So forever would be as long as life lasts.

Jenny: Forever and ever doesn't go on forever and ever?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. You know, sometimes you take something from Greek and you turn it into English...I just came back from Columbia where they don't say, "white house," they say, "house white." And when you convert things, the spirit of what's being said here can get twisted when it turns into English.

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Doug: Satan is going to be burnt up in the lake of fire. He may suffer day and night until he's all gone forever and ever.

Jenny: He'll be tormented day and night forever and ever, or?

Pastor Doug: No. The torment doesn't go on forever and ever because, you think about that for a second.

Jenny: Right

Pastor Doug: I mean, even the devil, as bad as he is, if you go 50 zillion years into the future, theoretically he's just started.

Jenny: That's true.

Pastor Doug: I mean, is God a sadist?

Jenny: No, He's not.

Pastor Doug: Lucifer used to be an angel that the Lord created.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And, of course, the fire that destroys the devil and his angels and the wicked, will also purify the earth of all that sin; and then God will create a new earth--

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: --so this fire won't go on forever and ever while the saints remain in the City waiting for the flames to go out.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, by the way, it tells us that the wicked that follow the devil are cast into the same lake of fire as the devil; and it says that they are burnt up.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And it tells us that, "there will not be a coal to warm at" [Isaiah 47:14].

Jenny: Okay

Pastor Doug: Now let me give you one more thought; and we're probably taking more time with this question than we normally do, but it's a good question. If a person dies forever, the last thought they have is the last conscious thought for eternity. And if the last conscious thought the devil has is burning for his evil deeds, that is what is imprinted on his legacy through eternity.

Jenny: Oh, I never thought of it that way.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, I didn't make that up. I heard that from another theologian; but I thought, "You know, that makes sense."

Jenny: That does make sense.

Pastor Doug: It's the eternal thought; the last thought.

Jenny: Right. Well you've answered my question. You've helped me out, because I didn't realize about verse 14 farther down in chapter 20 either.

Pastor Doug: Second death.

Jenny: Yup

Pastor Doug: Death is the absence of life.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Let me give you, also, one of the resources that you might want to take a look at. It's an Amazing Facts study guide entitled, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?"

Pastor Doug: Oh yeah!

Pastor Jëan Ross: It speaks the destruction of the devil. To receive that, just call the resource number, 1-800-835-6747. We're going to go to our next caller. Derrick is listening on WSJC from Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Derrick, welcome to the program.

Derrick: Hey, good evening. How are y'all doing?

Pastor Doug: Real good. How can we help you tonight?

Derrick: Appreciate the work y'all are doing.

Pastor Doug: Thank you.

Derrick: My question is, will you remember what you did on earth once you get to heaven?

Pastor Doug: Alright, two verses. First of all, when we get to heaven, we will still recognize each other and know our friends, even though they have new, glorified bodies. You can read in 1st Corinthians 13:13, that's that famous chapter on love; actually it's verse 12. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

We'll know each other even better, because our senses of discernment will not be weaker in heaven. They'll be stronger. But then it tells us in Isaiah that, "The former memories will not come into mind." And so we believe that once we enter eternity, once the millennium has passed and we've got the New Earth, and the wicked are ashes under the soles of our feet, all the former, painful memories will be forgotten. So, does that help?

Derrick: Okay, yup. Well one verse you were saying we will remember, in 1st Corinthians 13:12; and then in Isaiah, you're saying we won't be...the Bible is saying--

Pastor Doug: Well we'll know each other, I'm saying. Let me give you Isaiah 65, verse 17. "Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Won't even think about any of the former, painful memories. That's not talking about people.

Derrick: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: So we'll know our loved ones in their glorified bodies. We'll recognize them.

Derrick: Right

Pastor Doug: You know how sometimes you have a bad experience. You may say or do something. You're embarrassed about it. And as time goes by you start to get over it and the pain is less keen with time?

Derrick: Right

Pastor Doug: Well, if time heals, and we only live 70 years, imagine how much healing goes on if you live 70 million?

Derrick: Right

Pastor Doug: So in the wave after wave of glory that is going to hit us in the New Earth, the painful memories of this life are just going to sink into insignificance and not even come into mind anymore.

Derrick: Right

Pastor Doug: The bliss is going to so much overshadow it.

Derrick: Yeah--that question came up and this Scripture, the 1st Corinthians came to my mind; but I was just searching for some more. And, I mean, I do believe when you first get to heaven that you will remember how you got there, you know; and how far grace--

Pastor Doug: Oh yeah! Well Jesus may still have the scars in His hands through eternity because when He rose He had them.

Derrick: That's right. Okay. Pastor Doug, I appreciate the support.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you very much, appreciate your question Derrick.

Derrick: Keep up the good work!

Pastor Doug: God bless.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Robert is listening on WMCA from Bloomfield, New Jersey. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Good evening Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Robert: And my question is concerning the Sabbath. I just want to (unintelligible). I am a Sabbatarian.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Robert: Okay, and what I was curious about is, something came to my attention. In the New Testament, in all the things that Paul explains to Christians, one of the things he doesn't seem to emphasize at all is concerning the Sabbath. Neither did Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount, didn't mention it; and Stephen, before he was martyred, it seemed like he never preached on it. And one other thing is that, if you go to Revelation--it's 21:8--out of all the people that are left to enter the Kingdom, it's mentioned a vast area of different people who are, you know, not to enter--

Pastor Doug: The ones who are excluded, right.

Robert: Excluded, right, excuse me. It doesn't mention Sabbath-breakers at all. So I was curious about these things.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, no problem. Well first of all, in the New Testament you find no reference to the commandment, "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD in vain."

Robert: Okay

Pastor Doug: Can you think of anywhere in the New Testament there's any reference to that command?

Robert: Not offhand.

Pastor Doug: Alright, well, so right away we need to decide one of two things: does an absence of reference, does that mean it's no longer in existence and now it's okay for Christians to take the name of the Lord in vain? And people who take the name of the Lord in vain will be saved since it's not specifically mentioned?

Robert: No.

Pastor Doug: Or are we to assume that, of course, the principle is still there and it was so obvious to the Bible writers that it wasn't even worthy of mention? Now in the same way, of the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath is mentioned frequently in the New Testament.

Of course, you've got in Hebrews chapter 4 where it says, "There remains therefore the keeping of a sabbath for the people of God." Matter of fact, in Revelation chapter 14, in the great Gospel commission that's given the angel says, "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." That's an exact quote from Exodus chapter 20, verse 8.

That's an exact quote from the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20. And then, of course, you've got many references in the New Testament of Jesus keeping the Sabbath, and others.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Matthew chapter 24, verse 20 where Jesus says, "Pray that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day"; and He's speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem which happened 40 years after He had spoken these words.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. So yeah, we could go on and on on that one. Have you ever seen the website, Sabbath Truth, Robert?

Robert: No I haven't, well I uh--

Pastor Doug: Can you get on the Internet?

Robert: Well I don't have access to my house.

Pastor Doug: Well, make a note somewhere and take a look at that. It's just a lot of good proof texts, a lot of good reasoning; and it's I think it's also .org if you use either one. And, go ahead--

Robert: May I say one other thing?

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Robert: I know that Paul, he taught on the Sabbath day. The source I was reading from says that Peter and Paul didn't emphasize it, uh, sabbath-keeping; and they didn't uh...neither did Stephen. However, I know that he did teach in the synagogues.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. It actually says that Paul, when you go through Acts and you trace how many times it says Paul taught in the synagogue on the Sabbath, someone said it's over a hundred times. Under "Sabbaths", it lists Paul--when you add them up--preaching and teaching not just to Jews, but to Gentiles, on the Sabbath day. In Acts 16 it talks about that.

I hope that helps Robert. We're going to see if we can catch a couple more calls before we're out of time here. Thanks for your question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Steven is listening on KPDQ from St. Helens, Oregon. Steven, welcome to the program.

Steven: Hey, how are you doing? Thanks for taking my call.

Pastor Doug: Good!

Steven: Hey, I'm kind of curious, do the Scriptures teach that there is a Sabbath that is kept by God's creation on other worlds that are in this universe, or is the Sabbath only for us here on planet earth?

Pastor Doug: Well the closest we can come is Isaiah 66, where it tells us that, "from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come and worship before Him." Yeah, we're inclined to think

that, speaking of in our world, or even our milky way galaxy, I do believe God has an infinite number of other worlds and creations out there besides just the earth.

The Sabbath, of course, was a memorial of the creation of this world. And whether the whole universe will engage in keeping the Sabbath in the New Earth on the same day, God's moving the capitol to our planet. So, if it says from one sabbath to another we'll all gather to worship before Him; it may be that will be transferred to the whole universe. We don't know.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course, we don't know if God created the other worlds in six days and rested on the seventh-day Sabbath.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. They could have a similar time frame. There's not a lot in the Scriptures about what's going on outside of our universe, our galaxy I should say, Steven. Hope that helps.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Jim and he is calling from New York. Jim, welcome to the program.

Jim: Hello sir, how are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Good!

Jim: Thanks for taking my call. I'll try to make it quick because I know you have five minutes left. Just wanted to make a quick comment just to even out, I guess, the answers to that question about praying on the Sabbath; and I'll get to my question--I mean, "Pray that you don't flee in the winter, neither on the sabbath day."

Pastor Doug: Yeah?

Jim: Couldn't a response to that one also be that in Nehemiah 13:19 is evidence that they closed the gates on the Sabbath? So if the Jews within Jerusalem tried to flee on that day, if that's when it happened, then they wouldn't be able to get out? And plus, there would be a lot of animosity for Jews saying, "What are you doing? Why are you fleeing on the Sabbath?" Could that be an answer also?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, let me give you a quick response. The reason Jesus is saying this was because the Romans were surrounding Jerusalem. The city was being besieged. The gates would have been closed all day, not just on the Sabbath--

Pastor Doug: All week.

Pastor Jëan Ross: --because it's being besieged by the enemy.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. And furthermore, the statement that Jesus makes in Matthew 24, very few of the Apostles were actually in Jerusalem 40 years later. I don't know of any of them were there; so it wouldn't have applied to them at all. They were scattered. He told them to go into all the world and preach the Gospel.

So, if He says, "Pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day", I don't think that that would apply to all of those who would be listening to those words.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Correct

Pastor Doug: And we never got to your real question Jim. I apologize. You did it. You wanted to change subjects (chuckles). Anyway friends, we're about out of time. We do want to thank you for your supporting the program. This is entirely listener-supported. Keep us in your prayers. And if you would like to contact us, go to the website. It's simply In the meantime, remember the truth, it's Jesus. He will set you free.


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