Forgotten by God

Scripture: 2 Corinthians 5:1-21
Date: 05/24/2015 
In 2008 police broke into an apartment in Croatia to establish who owned the vacant property. Instead they discovered the apartment was not entirely unoccupied, sitting in a chair stationed in front of a TV where the mummified remains of a woman who had been reported missing more than 40 years earlier.
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Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? In 2008 police broke into an apartment in Croatia to establish who owned the vacant property. Instead they discovered the apartment was not entirely unoccupied, sitting in a chair stationed in front of a TV where the mummified remains of a woman who had been reported missing more than 40 years earlier.

In 1966, when Hegvigo Golick would have been 42 years old, the woman had apparently made herself a cup of tea before sitting in her favorite armchair in front of her black and white television which at the time was regarded a luxury item in Croatia then she suddenly died from heart attack in [unintelligible 00:00:48] something. Her neighbors were shocked by the discovery. They'd last seen her in 1966 and this is in 2008 she was found. She was a quiet polite woman who kept herself but they all assumed that she had just moved out and gone to live with relatives.

When officers entered the apartment, they confessed it was like stepping through a time warp. Aside from a lot of cobwebs, nothing had been moved for decades. A police spokesman said they were still mystified how it was possible that somebody could officially be reported as missing for so long and no one ever think to check their residence. It's sad to consider somebody could be so easily overlooked and forgotten. The Bible talks about a king who was left in a dungeon for 37 years. Stay with us friends we're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

Speaker 1: Welcome to Bible Answers Live with author and evangelist pastor Doug Batchelor. Is understanding God's word a challenge? Are there passages or scriptures that are a mystery to you? Maybe it's difficult to reconcile what you've read in the Bible and to what you've always believed. If you have bible related questions stay tuned to get honest practical answers straight from the Word of God on Bible Answers Live. Bible Answers Live is a production of Amazing Facts Ministries dedicated to spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ to the entire world. Our lines are open so call us now at 800-GOD-SAYS that's 800-463-7297. Now here's your host pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Doug: Hello listening friends, welcome to Bible Answers Live and as the title indicates, this is a live international interactive Bible study. We invite you to call in with your Bible questions beginning of the broadcast is a great time to get your call in and that's a free phone call it's 800-GOD-SAYS, that's 800-463-7297. One more time, 800-463-7297 will bring your Bible question into our studio. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross, good evening listening friends and pastor Doug as usual. Let's begin the program with a word of prayer. Dear father, we thank you that we have this opportunity once again to study your word together we just ask your blessing upon this program. Be with those who are listening wherever they might be and father guide us into a deeper understanding of your word which is truth. For we ask this in Jesus name Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about a woman who had been forgotten for a very long time. It's sad to think that somebody could just be forgotten, nobody really investigated or tried to contact her and they just assumed things and there she was sitting in front of a TV forgotten by the world.

Pastor Doug: Yes, I guess they had left-- there had been some heat on in the apartment or it was warm from the sun and they never did smell anything and she just mummified there.

Pastor Ross: [laughs]

Pastor Doug: You and I before the program weren't sure whether to talk about being alone here-

Pastor Ross: [laughs]

Pastor Doug: -the dangers of media.


Pastor Doug: We wonder what killed her, was it the TV? It's sad when you think that a person would be just missed that long. 42 years. Who is paying the bills? Nobody thought to open the door that long. That is really an amazing fact but there's a story in the Bible, many people who thought they were probably forsaken and forgotten, Joseph when he was in his dungeon probably wondered why it appeared God had forsaken him. You may not know friends that if you go to the last chapter of the book of Jeremiah, it talks about a Jewish king by the name of Jehoiakim who was 37 years in a Babylonian dungeon and he probably thought that he was forever forsaken and forgotten.

Then the Lord showed mercy to him and brought him out of his dungeon and he ended up eating at the king's table, wearing royal garments with a royal credit card for the rest of the days of his life. Sometimes you might think that God doesn't notice you or that the world doesn't notice you but there's nowhere you can run from his presence. He watches over you, you're not forgotten even though it might seem like you're going through trials and you wonder why these things are happening. God is a God of love. We have an interesting book that we would like to send you tonight. It's a true story, it is a very encouraging and inspiring story especially if you are going through some trials. It's called, Death Watch in Siberia. Pastor Ross, how can we get this book?

Pastor Ross: The number to call to receive this book for free, just 800-835-6747. That is a resource line, you can ask for the book, Death Watch in Siberia. The number again is 800-835-6747. Again, free offer Death watch in Siberia. Well, pastor Doug, I think we're ready to go to the phone lines, and we have Kirk, who is a listing from Long Island, New York. Kirk, welcome to the program.

Kirk: Hi, good afternoon pastor.

Pastor Doug: Afternoon, how can we help you?

Kirk: I have a question, marital question. I was married in an early age, it was a good match to start with then. I was unfaithful several times, and then throughout the course of the marriage later on my spouse also was unfaithful. We were Christians to begin with but we went [unintelligible 00:06:36] eventually. I had a conversion experience recently, and rededicated my life to the Lord and I was re-baptized and all that but I'd also gotten divorce and the ground was irreconcilable differences, but I was told that that's-- and I understand from the Bible that it's not Biblical acceptable grounds for divorce, but I want to end, in this instance, where both parties have committed adultery at various time, but are both parties obliged to-- or are they able remarry or not?

Pastor Doug: Well, you've probably heard before that-- and you can find this in Matthew 5 and in Matthew 19. If you go to Matthew 19 for instance, you can read verse three, the Pharisees came to Jesus testing him and they said is it lawful for man to divorce his wife for any reason? Jesus answered and said have you not read that he that made them at the beginning made the male and female? He said for this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. The two become one flesh so then they're no longer two but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together let not man separate. They said then why did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce to put her away?

He said Moses, because the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives but from the beginning it was not this way. I say to you that whoever divorces his wife except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. Whoever marries her that is divorce commits adultery. Now, and the disciples were shocked by this, they thought Jesus was being very rigid. They said, "Well, it's better not even to marry under those circumstances." But when you find yourself, wherever you happen to be Kirk, in life, and you get a new beginning, you want to just make sure that serving the Lord is the first and foremost thing in your life.

I would not get involved with somebody else right away. Sometimes you want to counsel the pastor and what ends up happening typically is, as enough time goes by, when parties in your situation separate or divorce and one of them eventually gets lonely and they find someone else and then the other one says, "Well, now I've got biblical grounds because they found somebody else."

There's a book we can send you for free, that deals with this issue. It's called, Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage. Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage. If you call the Amazing Facts number that we've been giving, we'll send you a free copy of that. It goes through a number of the Bible criteria for, what does it say about divorce and remarriage and what are the circumstances and some of the realities of it. I think that will give you a more thorough answer, I want to be careful not to give a glib answer over the phone. It's always good I tell people, if you have a local pastor where you're attending church-

Kirk: I've done that and I’ve been advised that time has passed and I’ve turned my life totally around and we were more than faithful, he don’t see why I [crosstalk].

Pastor Doug: No, you weren’t believers back then. Is that correct?

Kirk: Yes, we were believers but we were not practicing.

Pastor Doug: You weren't living the life or going to church. Let me give you one more story in the Bible, and you've got the experience in the Bible of the Samaritan woman at the well, and when Jesus revealed himself to her, he said, "Go call your husband." She said, "Well, I don't have a husband." He said, "You're telling the truth, you've actually had five husbands and the guy you're living with now, you're not married to." Jesus revealed to her He was the Messiah, she ostensibly saved by accepting him, she went to town and told everybody.

Now, the Bible doesn't tell exactly what happened, but she either went home and married the fellow she's living with or kicked him out. But I'm sure something changed. Having that scrambled marital background doesn't prevent you from coming to the Lord, but God's word does have some clear criteria for what are the grounds for divorce and remarriage. Please send for the book that we mentioned which is, Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage, and take a look at that and see if it gives you more answers.

Pastor Ross: The number to call for that is 800-835-6747, Kirk for you or anybody wanting to learn more about what the Bible says about marriage, divorce, and remarriage. 800-835-6747, that is the resource line. We'll be happy to send you this book. If you have a Bible question, the phone line here to the studio is 800-463-7297. That's 800-463-7297. Our next caller is Josiah, listening from Texas. Josiah, welcome to the program.

Josiah: Hey, how you guys doing?

Pastor Doug: Doing good, thanks for calling and your question?

Josiah: I have a question from 2nd Corinthians 5:1-4, when Paul was talking about our earthly house and our desire to be clothed upon and our tabernacle, reading it, it sounds like we are a disembody being inside of our earthly house, on desiring to be clothed upon with our new body from heaven. It sounds like just because we might be disembodied or we are in the tabernacle saying that we're not the body, we are something else in our body or our tabernacle or something.

Pastor Doug: Yes, right. Maybe I need to read a little bit of this for our listeners. You and I know what we're talking about but if you let me read a couple verses, 2nd Corinthians 5, "For we know that if our earthly house or this tent is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For this we groan earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven." Meaning our glorified bodies. "If indeed having been clothed, we shall not be found naked for we who are in this tent", this body, "being burdened not because we want to be unclothed but further clothed that mortality might be swallowed up in life."

Now, the word tent or tabernacle, Jesus said, "Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit." The word tabernacle, temple, or sanctuary, are often used interchangeably in the Bible, just means that because the Holy Spirit dwells in us, our bodies are compared to the temple or the tabernacle. Paul is not necessarily saying that your body is just a house for the spirit that consciously floats around. To use more modern vernacular, you probably know what a jump drive is for a computer. If you want to copy files or program-- I did it for the program tonight, I take my Amazing Facts from my desktop and I bring it and put it in my laptop here in the studio.

When I unplug that little jump drive that stores data, there's all kinds of information on there. You can have just like 60 gigabytes on some of them now, one little jump drive. It doesn't do anything until I plug it into a computer that has power to it. My laptop, whether it's battery or plugged in, there's power that brings all the programming to life. When you unplug a jump drive, it's got the information stored there but it's static. God knows who we are. There's the essence of who we are but without our body, whether it's our glorified body or our physical body, we're not processing anything. Does that answer what you're saying?

Josiah: Consciousness is based on whether we have our breath of life in a body or not?

Pastor Doug: Yes, it's whether you're in this tent or a new tent. As Paul is saying, "For a person who is a believer that dies, their next conscious thought is the presence of the Lord." For King David, 3000 years have gone by, but for him it's going to seem like three seconds or less. His next thought is the presence of the Lord but it hasn't happened yet because the resurrection hasn't happened, and the judgment hasn't happened.

The Bible says that the dead in Christ rise when the Lord comes. That hasn't happened. You don't have the second coming yet, you don't have a resurrection yet, you don't have the judgment yet, there are no disembodied spirits. I was listening to another pastor today on the radio and someone was asking him about psychic that consult with the dead, and he said, "Anybody that", I agreed with him. He said, "Anybody that says that they're talking with humans, that's from the devil." Because the Bible tells us clearly that mediums were of the devil. Folks that claim to communicate with the dead. The living know they'll die, but it says in Ecclesiastes 9, "The dead don't know anything."

Pastor Ross: Absolutely, we do have a study guide pastor, that's dealing with this subject. Called, Are the dead really dead? It's got all of the Scriptures there and it's a great resource. We also have a website dealing with this called,, andyou'll be able to watch video there and study this subject out. See what the Bible has to say. The number to call for that free resource is 800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide, Are the dead really dead?. We have Loretta, listening from Tennessee. Loretta, welcome to the program. Loretta you're on the air.

Pastor Doug: Loretta, I think I hear a radio in the background, one more time Loretta, from Savannah Tennessee, are you there? She may have her phone on mute.

Pastor Ross: All right, we are going to move to Kevin, listening from Alaska. Kelvin, you're on the air.

Kelvin: Yes, good evening pastor Doug and pastor Ross?

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Pastor Ross: Hello.

Kelvin: I have high interest in the little horn power and of course we recognize that as the United States, correct?

Pastor Doug: Well, you got two-- the little horn power, I don't believe is the United States. The little horn power that you find in Daniel Chapter seven is talking about the Beast of Revelation 13, which is the Papal power. The United States is the second power in Revelation, and that'd be Protestants in the United States, they're the second power in Revelation Chapter 13. When you talk about the little horn, it is connected with what's going to happen with the United States in the future and for our friends listening right now they're going what in the world is Pastor Doug talking about?

Just for our friends who are listening, Kelvin is asking about these last day beast powers mentioned in Daniel 7, or is it also Daniel 8, Pastor Ross? And Revelation 13, it's the final powers, there is going to be a confederacy between-- it calls it a little horn because it uses this dream of a ram and a goat and they fight with their horns. You've probably seen where one horn sprouts, another horn like in a deer antler.

This little horn comes up from the roots of the Greek empire and it ends up going through the time of Rome and it grows into a great political religious power and most of the Protestant Reformers like Martin Luther, John Wesley, Whitfield, Calvin, Swingley, the lengthening Kramer, and Spurgeon, they all believe this little horn power was the papacy. What we commonly call the Roman catholic church today.

We're not trying to be ungracious because we also believe the second beast in Revelation 13, is a confederacy of Protestants in North America that are going to enter into a league and are certainly going to force this one world version of Christianity, but it will be a polluted version on the world. I maybe saying a lot more than you're asking Kelvin, so I'm not letting you finish your question.

Kelvin: I study things out, I know that for everything right there is a counterfeit, and so in my studies, I found out that you've got part of the equation right but I see a false trinity in what we're discussing.

Pastor Doug: Yes, there is a counterfeit trinity mentioned in Revelation. You got the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet. As opposed to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Kelvin: This would be, like you say, the Roman, the US, and then the British.

Pastor Doug: I might be respectfully diverged from you on that, but that's an interesting theory.

Kelvin: It is pretty interesting, I've done some extensive research into it, because I got it all the way down to when the [unintelligible 00:19:57] of Christianity under the-

Pastor Doug: Yes, the other reformers or the--

talking about the pilgrims or?

Kelvin: Knights Templar.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Kelvin: Knights Templar. When they got them, when they destroyed them basically and then they took over the ends there, where the Knights Templar used to be. They kind of have it all. You could even google it on the internet, the middle end.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Kelvin: It'll pop up and it'll tell you that you got to have the church of Rome there, you've got the British Credit Registry there, and that's the end that conducts nexuses over to the United States which is a corporation. I believe the one world government in the end is corporation.

Pastor Doug: Some of the features that you're talking about are I believe connected with what we believe.

Pastor Ross: We have a study guide. I was just thinking this might be something, Kelvin you'll enjoy. It's called, The USA in Bible Prophecy, and gets right into this. It talks about this beast power, Revelation chapter 13, and the various cooperative relationships that it looks like the United States has at the end with various political powers and religious powers and bringing together some of these events that Revelation speaks of.

We'll be happy to send this study guide to you for free if you just call our resource line. The number is 800-835-7647, you can ask for the study guide called, The USA in Bible Prophecy. You can also read this for free online at

Pastor Doug: Yes, in fact, so many people use YouTube now. If you just type in Doug Batchelor and The USA in Prophecy, I think there's probably a 100,000 people have watched that video now. Take a look there. It goes along with the lesson Pastor Ross is talking about.

Pastor Ross: We have Dylan, listening from Las Vegas. Dylan, welcome to the program.

Dylan: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Evening, and your question?

Dylan: Yes. Can you hear me?

Pastor Doug: Loud and clear.

Dylan: Pastor, I'd like to tell you that you and Charles E. Stanley has helped me out through the years in your knowledge of the Bible and just God used you to reach out and touch people. You two pastors have really helped me through a lot of hard times in my life. My question is, I was watching Shepherd's Chapel. It said something about-- he was quoting a scripture out of the Bible and said, "Satan beguiled Eve." I guess that word meant he laid with her. He beguiled Eve, and that's how Cain was like half-angel, half-man and then that was the first murder, Cain and Abel. I've looked in my Bible and did not find that scripture in my Bible.

Pastor Doug: First of all, if you look in Genesis 3:13, in the King James Version, it'll use the word beguiled. I think in other versions it says deceived. Anyway, the word beguiled there, we can look at the original language, but it doesn't mean to have intimate physical relations with. It just means deceived. I think the pastor's reading something in there that just is not in the original.

Dylan: That's exactly what I was comprehending in my terms because they were saying beguiled means to lay with. That he laid with her. There's a lot of false doctrines out here.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Dylan: Thank you for answering my question. That says it all for me because nothing in the Bible say that. I was going to look for it in King James Version, but I listen to you guys' radio station. I don't get it until eleven o'clock.

Pastor Doug: All right. While we were visiting, I looked up the actual word. It's nasha, the word for beguile. It means, led astray, to delude, to seduce. He's probably thinking that it means seduce like in physical seduction. You can seduce a person, it has nothing-- a card dealer can seduce a person to buy. It has nothing to do with sex. The word seduce can also mean to just trick a person into something in a sensual way. Here the devil is offering her something to eat which appeals to the senses. It had nothing to do with the serpent [laughs] having sex with the woman.

Whenever you wonder about one part of the Bible, you look in another part. I think pastor Ross, in the New Testament, Paul says that the devil deceived the woman. The word there used is simply deceived. It has nothing to do with-- he didn't have sex with the woman. If we doubt what Moses is saying, then look at what Paul is saying. Paul is quoting Moses and he makes it very clear, it is an intellectual deception. It had nothing to do with anything physical.

Dylan: Okay, thank you. Because I guess the guy in Shepherd's Chapel, he's passed away and his son has taken it over. That was the guy, the older guy.

Pastor Doug: Right. He was a very sincere man but I respectfully disagree with his interpretation of that verse. Thank you very much for your call, Dylan. We do have Amazing Fact study guide series, if you've not looked at that yet, you can just go to and sign up.

Pastor Ross: Absolutely I hope. Amazing Facts Bible course is available to anybody for free. Just go to the Amazing Facts website, or and you can sign up for our free study guide lessons. We have Efrank, who is listening from New York. Efrank, welcome to the program.

Efrank: Good evening, Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Efrank: I have a question. There was this prayer that I was taught early in my life, I'm a member of a specific religion. I don't need to mention the specific faith, but it said that-- the prayer was specific. It said, "Glory be to the Father, glory be to the Son, and glory be to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, now and ever shall be World without end."

I looked through scriptures, I looked through the book of Matthew, I looked and looked. I really-- it cannot even compare with the book of Revelation either when I looked through it. Where it states that the world will end someday. This literal physical world will end at one point. I really can't find a scripture, and I said to myself, "Since prophecy indicates that there will be a new heaven and new earth."

Pastor Doug: If you look in 2nd Peter chapter 3, it talks about the world the way we know it, passing away, but God will recreate this world. That would be where it says the heavens will pass away with a great noise, the elements will melt with fervent heat, the earth and the things that are in it will be burned up. So yes, in that sense, this world the way we know it, will end. The history of man the way we know it now will end. The dead in Christ are raised, the others are resurrected and we go and live and reign with the Lord for a thousand years. Then at the end of that 1000 years, you can find that in Revelation chapter 21. It says, "The new Heaven and a new Earth come down, or the new Jerusalem comes down. God creates a new Heaven and a new Earth. You're listening to Bible Answers Live.

Speaker 1: Bible Answers Live return in just a moment. If you're looking for Bible-based materials for further study, sign up for Amazing Facts' free correspondence Bible study course or check out our sale catalog featuring hundreds of inspiring books and tapes. To order, call our resource line at 800-835-6747. That's 800-835-6747. Amazing Facts is a faith-based listener-supported ministry operating exclusively through the generosity of your prayers and financial gifts. We would love to hear from you. Write to us at P.O. Box 909 Roseville, California 95678 or online at

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Pastor Doug: Welcome back listening friends. This is really exciting. A live program where people can call and you don't know exactly what the Bible questions going to be. We just pray and look at the word together and seek and find. That's the promise. If you have a Bible question, we've got some lines open. It's 800-463-7297, brings your Bible question live into the studio tonight. One more time, in case you weren't ready, 800-463-7297. I'm Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Pastor Doug, we're going to go straight to the phone lines. We can try the Loretta, over in Tennessee. Savannah, Tennessee. Loretta, you're on the air.

Loretta: Yes, thank you. Good evening.

Pastor Doug: Evening.

Loretta: I appreciate your program, and I do support Amazing Facts. I love it.

Pastor Doug: Well, thank you so much.

Loretta: I've got a question, and I've got an amazing fact about you. Well, let me tell you the amazing fact. I was very amazed to find out from some friends of yours that you eat peanut butter and garlic sandwiches.

Pastor Doug: Well, that is an amazing fact because I don't know that I've ever eaten a peanut butter and garlic sandwich in my life.


Loretta: One of your friends told me that you did, and he ate it too.

Pastor Doug: I eat a lot of peanut butter. I peanut butter almost every day, but I don't know that I've ever eaten a peanut butter and garlic sandwich. I eat garlic, and try not to do itjust before I greet people at church.

Pastor Ross: You'll have to try it. [laughs]

Loretta: Well, I'll go back and mention that to you.

Pastor Doug: Yes, I'd go back to the source of that rumor. The Bible says to pray for those that despitefully use you and persecute you.


Loretta: Well, let me ask my question. I have a friend who believes that Mary is in heaven. I actually asked her, did you want me to show her where that wasn't true. She told me no, but it's a good thing because I couldn't find any place. I wanted to know if you can help me give some evidence that that isn't true. I don't believe she's there.

Pastor Doug: Well, we should never study the Bible looking for evidence of things that don't exist. What I mean is, I meet people and they say, "The Bible doesn't say I shouldn't use heroin." I said, "Well, yes, it doesn't say anything about a lot of stuff that just was irrelevant or they are self-realized or self-evident truths." The Bible is very clear about what happens when someone dies, and the Bible says nothing about Mary going right to heaven at death.

There's a whole Catholic doctrine that goes back, well I think it was 500 years or more after Christ, they talked about the assumption of Mary. There's nothing in scripture, there's nothing in the early church about that. Let me just tell you quickly. Friends, I hope nobody gets upset, but I'll just give you the straight history. As Christians came pouring into the Roman Church, and for years Christianity was illegal in Rome. Romans worshiped all kinds of idols and gods.

They had Thor, and they had-- Mercury was a god, they had Saturn, and Jupiter, and all these gods. They had goddesses. Diana. The Bible talks about the goddess Diana. There were others. When the Christians began to convert to Christian-- when the Romans began to convert to Christianity, they had all these goddesses and statues and paintings. Their religious father said, "Well, if you just rename them Mary." That's a simplistic answer but gradually, they replaced a lot of the goddess worship with Mary, and they called her the mother of God.

It just grew into sort of a cultish practice and belief. Nowhere in the Bible or-- again, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but nowhere in the Bible are we're told to pray to Mary. Nowhere. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary's in heaven. These are things that just grew out of the traditions of men. I think the burden of proof is going to lie with somebody to show where Mary somehow got a special exemption. Now, we have a book on the subject, Pastor Ross.

Pastor Ross: We actually have a book and a website. The website is called There, there's a video that somebody could watch dealing with the subject and a book called, The Mystery of Mary the Mother of Jesus. We'll be happy to send that to anybody who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747. Again, just ask for the book talking about Mary or read it online at the website.

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps a little bit Loretta.

Loretta: Is the first one also about Mary the mother of Jesus or no?

Pastor Doug: Well, yes, if you go to the website that's called, and the book we'll send you, or you can read it online or we'll send you a copy, is the truth about Mary. There's just a lot of misunderstandings and it's very kindly presented, but it is Biblical. Anyone listening out there, if you've been confused about why do we pray to Mary? Is Jesus too busy? Or is she a goddess? What's the status? Was Mary human or has she become divine? There's just a lot of confusion. You ought to look at this and make sure you base your conclusions on the Bible.

Loretta: Okay. Thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: All right. Thank you, Loretta. Appreciate your call.

Loretta: Bye.

Pastor Ross: We have Jerry listening from Medford, Oregon. Jerry, welcome to the program.

Jerry: Hello, Pastors Doug and Jean. By the way Pastor Doug, I see you're heading our way up here.

Pastor Doug: Yes, I am. I'll be going to the Southern Oregon Camp meeting. When is that? Two or three weeks.

Jerry: Yes, I think it's at 12 and 13.

Pastor Doug: Yes, looking forward to it.

Jerry: Yes. I have a question for you but I need to set the stage briefly for the question. I'm looking at John 19:31. It says, "Now, it was a day of preparation and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down." Okay, now I'm looking back in Luke 22, the famous scripture about the Passover, and the Last Supper, and Jesus being arrested.

Now, that was, and we know that the day is from evening until evening, it would appear-- the Passover lasted from the point that they engaged in their last supper until the following evening. Now, wouldn't that have been a Passover? Wouldn't that have been also a special Sabbath? Why did they allow-- why did the Jews desire that Jesus be crucified on a special Sabbath like that?

Pastor Doug: Well, the Passover, and this is a good question because people ask us a lot. It shows that you're studying. Passover was a feast that actually lasted seven days. When they left Egypt, it all happened rather abruptly. When Moses then later gives them, and I think it's in Exodus 12, he gives him the law regarding the Passover and tells them that they were to celebrate this feast that lasted several days.

The actual Passover sacrifice was to be sacrificed that Friday afternoon, the very time when Jesus died on the cross. They began with this ceremonial dinner on Thursday night and that was the time when they would put the leaven out of their houses and Jesus had this meal with them. One thing that's interesting, it never mentions some of the things that were with the meal which is the bitter herbs and things that happen with the lamb. The lamb is never mentioned as being part of the meal that Jesus had during the Last Supper. Just the bread.

One Bible version mentions also, or one book in the Bible, I think it's John, mentions that they dipped the bread in a dressing, and the grape juice. That's all that's mentioned. The real Passover meal, the Passover sacrifice was Friday afternoon. The reason they wanted to break the legs and I think you understand this, is because crucifixion could take days for a person to die, but once their legs were broken and they couldn't prop themselves up to breathe, they would suffocate fairly quickly. They didn't want all these worshipers who were coming to Jerusalem for the Passover on the main road to the temple, to see such a gruesome scene. They wanted it to be a festive time.

The priest said, "Let's get these bodies off the highway, it's a mccobb way to begin the Passover Feast. That's why they're asking Pilate to accelerate their death. Did I answer your question?

Jerry: Well, yes, as I understand you, you're saying the previous day when Jesus had his last supper in the Passover meal, that was actually one day prior to the official Passover?

Pastor Doug: Well, keep in mind the days begin at sundown. It was sundown on Thursday which we would call Friday. It was the commencement of the Passover but they weren't going to offer the Passover lamb until the next day. Just as they were getting ready to do that, Jesus died on the cross, the curtain was ripped. A little lamb probably scampered off and they were left speechless. The veil curtain was ripped. We have a book we can send you on feast days and Sabbaths, Jerry, that goes into a little detail on this. We'll be happy to do that for free.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book, Feast Days and Sabbaths, and that'll give you a lot more additional scriptural information about the various feasts. Pastor Doug, just one point I want to mention is the Passover was to be celebrated on the 14th day of the month, and then on the 15th the very next day, that was the start of the feast of unleavened bread which continue for seven days.

Sometimes the feast of unleavened bread and the Passover, the word for those two feasts, because they were connected so closely together, sometimes would be Passover, sometimes that even refer to the Passover as part of the feast of unleavened bread. There wasn't a very clear distinction As time moved on between this two feasts because they followed one after another.

Pastor Doug: Yes, you might say, "I'm going to be with my family for Christmas, where you might be literally talking about Christmas eve.

Pastor Ross: Collect.

Pastor Doug: But you just used a general word and that's what they did. Thank you and this-- in particular Sabbath when Jesus died, they said it was a high Sabbath because every now and then, the Passover sacrifice would overlap on the weekly Sabbath. They claimed a double blessing on that day.

Pastor Ross: All right, we have Heather who's listening from Idaho falls, Idaho. Heather, welcome to the program.

Heather: Thank you both gentlemen for being so patient with your callers.

Pastor Doug: Thank you for your call.

Heather: I have a question, my brothers and sisters in Christ I have noticed recently, I guess I'm a bit ignorant about some of the biblical scriptures, are abstaining from wearing wedding rings and adornments. I wondered if you can reconcile that with the scripture and tell me specifically why some of them choose to wear, for example, the men are wearing pins on their lapels, they wear watches and ties and some of the women even have belts with their skirts and their blouses but they abstain from wearing the adornment of a wedding ring.

Pastor Doug: All right, that's a good question. You are asking really a practical question about a Christians appearance and what does the Bible say when it comes to ornamentation, and jewelry, and things like that. It's interesting that if you study the early Christians in North America, many of them of course, they came from the Puritan background in England and from some very conservative Baptist backgrounds. They wore no make up, they wore no jewelry, they did not wear wedding rings, and if you have-- you'll find this very interesting, I'm trying to remember the name of it, was it the millennial confession of the beginning of the King James Version?

There was a statement of a thousand puritan pastors to King James that you find in the early editions. I think you can find it online. They said, "We are asking not to be forced to accept the using of rings in the marriage ceremony." And that was right in the beginning of the King James Bible. It's becoming, unfortunately, the principles are forgotten but it's becoming-- America is being so fashioned by television and the media and when you look at how the media dresses, the Christians don't think very much about modesty and their appearance.

Just to give you some quick answers Heather, there is a number of verses in the Bible where it talks about this principles. The children of Israel for one thing, they made their golden calf out of the jewelry that they had taken from the Egyptians and that they were wearing. When God said I'm going to judge you, He said, "Take off your ornaments so I can know what I should do with thee." They stripped themselves of their ornaments. They had bedecked themselves with these, and many of the ornaments were connected with pagan gods too.

Jacob, when he came to meet with the Lord, it says that his family, they took off their rings and jewels and they buried them and they went to meet with the Lord at Bethel. Then you can read what it says in for instance, what is it? Isaiah chapter four, about the daughters of Israel when they became proud, he talks about how they began to mince surrounded plants and he specifically mentions all the jewels that they were wearing.

One of the signs of-- well, how do I say this? A Christian is not valuable because of what they wear but who they are. Peter said, "Let it not be the outward adorning, the plaiting of the hair, and wearing of gold, but let it be the hidden matter of the heart what is it? 1st Peter three?

Pastor Ross: Three verse three, yes.

Pastor Doug: Then Paul says something in Timothy about that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel not with gold or-- I'll let you read that because I'll probably mess it up. But Heather, I'm just giving you a quick off the cuff overview of what some of them scriptures were that these Christians were using for the principles of modesty.

Pastor Ross: The verse you are referring to here by Paul in 1st Timothy 2:9, in like manner also, let women adorn themselves in modest apparels with propriety and moderation, not with braided braidings of hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but that which is proper for woman professing Godliness.

Pastor Doug: Now I'll agree with you Heather that what you see happening sometimes, you'll have some Christians they'll boast and say, "I don't wear any jewelry, but they'll have a $20,000 gold Rolex watch. Well, a watch is functional and that's good but doesn't have to be that ostentatious. A matter of fact when a bunch of evangelists got into trouble a few years ago, televangelists, someone wrote a song and the song was titled, would Jesus wear a Rolex? Because he used to flaunt these were prosperity preachers and they would flaunt their wealth and their wives often were wearing extravagant clothing and heavy make up. There is something inconsistent about that and the picture of Jesus. Does that make sense Heather?

Heather: Well, I would agree that it's inconsistent and very confusing because some of these same people that are choosing not to wear wedding rings, the men are wearing ties and they are wearing pins on their lapels and watches and some of the women are wearing the belts or they've got their fingers manicured. I'm not a high maintenance woman at all, so I don't wear jewelry and I'm actually single but how would the single people in Christ identify another single person if in today's society the wedding ring is the symbol of the commitment to the marriage.

Pastor Doug: I can see where there is a functional purpose to that it's interesting that you would ask that. I have never worn a wedding ring, my wife does not wear a wedding ring, we've been married for many years and nobody, to my knowledge, has ever gone after her. She acts married, she's a very pretty woman and the same thing with me, as soon as anybody would ever act like, "Are you available?" I just say, "My wife this, my wife that." That makes it really clear. Let's face it, some people wear wedding rings and that doesn't keep others from flirting.

I've never seen that to be a problem but though I do understand that it got a utilitarian or a signal, it's a flag. When you go to India, the married women have actually a ring in their nose. Different cultures do different things to try and identify it but I found you just act married. [laughs] But you're right Heather, it is inconsistent, you know what I'd like to do? It's a lot more I can say on this but-- because it's a good question. We have a book, I wrote a book, believe it or not, because we get this question sometimes and it's called, Jewelry, how much is too much? We'll send you a free copy, anyone that's wondering, what are the Bible principles for modesty and dress and jewelry and these issues? And we'll send you a copy of that.

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747, you can ask for the book, Jewelry, how much is too much? We'll be happy to send it to anybody who calls and asks.

Pastor Doug: I wear a Casio watch $19, pastor Ross what kind of a watch is that?

Pastor Ross: That's Casio. Yes.

Pastor Doug: Okay, there you go. $19 Casio watch, no lapel pins. [laughs]

Pastor Ross: That's right.

Pastor Doug: That sounded kind of fear [unintelligible 00:47:48] echoed in it.


Pastor Ross: All right, we have Van listening from Vacaville, California. Van, welcome to the program.

Van: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi, welcome.

Van: My question is, can you give an example of a sin that does not lead to death?

Pastor Doug: When John says there is a sin that leadeth not to death, you're right the penalty for sin is death, all sin. I think he was talking about the sin that can not be forgiven which is the unpardonable sin, in other words, there is no hope of life once you have committed the unpardonable sin. It will only lead to death. Some people sin and they can be forgiven, all of us have sinned and we hope to be forgiven. But he that commits the unpardonable sin, there is no forgiveness for that. I have a book that I'll be happy to send you. I wrote it about a year ago called, Beyond mercy. What is the unpardonable sin? If you like a free copy of that Van, we'll send it to you.

Pastor Ross: Again the number to call is 800-835-6747, you can ask for the book, What is the unpardonable sin? Beyond mercy.

Pastor Doug: That book, you call, we'll send it to you, I don't think you'll find that one on the internet yet because it's one of our newer books and we sell it to most people but if you ask for it we'll send you one.

Van: Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: You are welcome.

Pastor Ross: All right, we have Rob listening from Detroit, Michigan. Rob, welcome to the program.

Rob: Thank you. Hi pastor Batchelor. First time caller, thanks for taking my call, I have a question I want to ask, it's not easy to ask because it's complicated but I'll try to be as quick as about as I can. It basically has to do with-- I believe the Bible is a progressive revelation from beginning to end so we get more revelation as time goes on with covenants. Under the old covenant, for example, you got Deuteronomy 28, you've got Job chapter 42, where in Job 42, it says that Job's friends came to him to comfort him over the evil that the Lord God brought upon him. Deuteronomy 28, God says if you reject my word, if you don't obey me then all these curses will come upon you and overtake you.

It's something that I don't get in conversation with a lot of people particularly pastors because for some people it's sensitive and it riles people up. They don't like to talk about this but-- long story short, I'm trying to be quick. In the new covenant, Jesus said, "The thief comes not but for to kill, steal, and destroy." It seems like we have more revelation under this covenant as far as Satan's works, I'm failure with Isaiah 14, I believe, Ezekiel 28, his origin and all that kind of stuff. But question is this, I have a little depth with the Hebrew, as far as Greek goes, the word studies are really helpful but to me, Hebrew is not quite as easy to understand.

When those statements are made, the Lord brought this evil, and James chapter one, if you look at that, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I'm tempted of God for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man." To me, the New Testament says that God does not bring evil upon people. Then when you have those kind of statements under the Old Covenant, that kind of language, some people say, "Well, God allowed it." Which to me is no different, in other words he's not the author. I say that he doesn't have anything to do with it but I say-

Pastor Doug: Well.

Rob: -that people.

Pastor Doug: I'm sorry, let me just-- I'm afraid we're going to run out of time, and I think I understand what you're asking. There are cases in the New Testament, well, first of all there's a battle between good and evil. You got cases in the Old Testament where the devil, obviously cause problems in the story of Job, and you've got places in the Old Testament where it says the angel of the Lord went through the camp of the Syrians and smote 185,000. You have cases in the New Testament where the devil afflicts people. Jesus said, "Satan has tormented this woman 18 years." Then you have cases in the New Testament where the Lord struck down Ananias and Sapphira.

In both the Old Testament in the New Testament, God can send judgment and the Satan can send judgment. That's why the book of Job is such an enlightening book because you've got this debate, which sounds like the questions you're asking, between why do good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people?

Rob: Yes.

Pastor Doug: Is it coming from God or is it coming from the devil?

Rob: Yes.

Pastor Doug: When I read my Bible I see that the Lord does have the power to send judgment. Now, if someone says only the devil sends bad things, then who is it that throws the devil into the lake of fire? At the end, devil don't jump in. It says he's cast. God must have a role in sending judgement at some point.

Rob: I agree with you. I think that God does. In Ananias and Sapphira, we see the man in 1st Corinthians five, which obviously repented, and then Hebrews chapter 12, it's very clear that God chastises his people.

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Rob: Here's the thing. Satan afflicts people to hurt and to kill them. I know this is not an easily answered question but how do you determine if Satan is trying to destroy somebody who's walking with God or if God is judging you? I guess that's something you have to know in your own heart. I mean, 1st Corinthians 11, tells us that if we don't judge ourselves-

Pastor Doug: We will be judged.

Rob: -we will be judged.

Pastor Doug: That's right.

Rob: That's God's judgment, no question about it.

Pastor Doug: Yes. We're going to run out of time, I'm afraid, before I get a chance to respond and we'll run out of air time Rob. We do have a book and I don't know if you've read it before, it's called, Did God Create A Devil? It talks about this battle. Sounds like you know some of the verses that are there in Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, and a number of others, talks about this battle between good and evil. I do believe that the Lord is sovereign and he has the right power and authority to send judgment. You're right sometimes it's only the Holy Spirit, if we're going through some trial or some through judgment, we wonder is the devil doing this or is God doing it to save me.

Sometimes the Lord will send hard times to purify. Sometimes God allows us to go through trials to be a witness for others. But with that friends, I'm afraid we're going to run out of time for tonight's program. Want to thank everybody for calling in. Thank you, Rob, for your question and send for that lesson, Did God Create A Devil? Pastor Ross the number?

Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747, and again, the study guide that you can ask for free is called, Did God Create A Devil?

Pastor Doug: Listening friend if we did not get to your question tonight, don't give up on us. God willing we'll be back together next week to study his word, and remember, Amazing Facts can go on. Just go to the website, there's gobs and oodles of material and Bible studies there. God bless you till next week.

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