Flying Blind

Date: 02/08/2009 
On November 8, 2008, Jim O’Neill, 65, suffered a stroke that left him blind while flying alone at the controls of his small plane flying by himself at 15,000 feet over North Yorkshire, England. O’Neill frantically radioed a May Day alert from his Cessna.
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Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an Amazing Fact? On November 8, 2008, Jim O’Neill, 65, suffered a stroke that left him blind while flying alone at the controls of his small plane flying by himself at 15,000 feet over North Yorkshire, England. O’Neill frantically radioed a May Day alert from his Cessna. Thankfully a military training plane was already in the air nearby.

Wing commander Paul Gerard flew within 300 feet of the stricken pilot and established radio contact. After establishing radio contact Gerard used a series of very carefully chosen words like turn left, a little right, reduce power, 10% flaps, the RAF pilot guided the disabled aircraft down towards a military air field. O’Neill had to feel and find the various controls from memory. The Cessna landed at high speed bounced twice and stopped safely at the very end of the runway. Thankfully after medical treatment most of Jim O’Neill’s eyesight returned.

Friends you know without the word of God to guide us we’re all flying blind. Stay with us friends we’re going to bring you more as “Amazing Facts” brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live”.


Pastor Doug: Just in case you have joined us along the way you are listening to a live, international, interactive Bible study. And we would like to believe that either by design or Providence you have found your way to this frequency. If you have a Bible question one more time if you want to get your question on tonight’s broadcast pick up the phone, it is a toll free number it is an acronym would be 1-800-GOD-SAYS if you want the numbers that would be 1-800-463-7297. And my name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening listening friends. Welcome once again as Pastor Doug has said to “Bible Answers Live”. Before we start with the program questions let’s start with prayer. Dear Father we thank you again for this opportunity to study your word and we ask your blessing upon this program. We ask that you would be with those that are listening where ever they might be and Father we ask for wisdom as we search the pages of Scripture for truth. For this we ask in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Ross: I can just imagine what it must be like trying to a little plane—I mean that would be hard enough for me, but trying to do it blind. And then having to trust someone else to give you those very specific directions as to how you are to land the plane. There is a very tremendous amount of trust between pilots to be able to land that plane.

Pastor Doug: Absolutely. Every now and then you hear stories about a pilot hat has collapsed or has a heart attack while they are flying and they’ve got their co-pilot or they have got a passenger in the co-pilot seat. It might be a spouse or friend that doesn’t know how to fly and but, they can see. Or sometimes the pilot might be flying instrument because of bad weather, but they have got the instruments they can see. But, and I am speaking as a pilot, if you’re flying and all of a sudden someone was to put a big ski mask over your face and cover it, so you just can’t see anything that would be a pretty disconcerting way to travel in. You’d need an enormous amount of trust in the words of the precision of the words, of the one who’s your life is in their hands. And they are telling you exactly you know, to slow down your speed, but they don’t want to stall, turn right, but you don’t want to go into a spin, and just the delicate maneuvers and then line you up on a line on a runway and just take off the right amount of power.

And I was reading this and I was thinking of the words of Jesus and peter said Jesus where are you going to go because you have the words of life and Jesus said the words I speak they are not just mere words, but they are spirit and they are life. And getting through this world we are flying blind unless we have the Bible.

Pastor Ross: You know I am also reminded of what Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.” And going back to the fact that started the program, he couldn’t pick and choose what instruction that he wanted to heed, but he had to listen to every word and follow the instruction.

Pastor Doug: That is a good point! That’s right he couldn’t say well I don’t think I want to turn a little left. He had to obey precisely and his life depended on it. And it is that way with us. Some people say well I’d like some of the general metaphors in the Bible, but to really live by every word, most people don’t take that very seriously. But, you can trust that God has your best interest in mind. In the Bible the ultimate end is that God said that He’ll with hold nothing good from His children and those who walk uprightly. And we would like to recommend a free lesson that we are offering tonight. That is the first of the “Amazing Facts” Bible study course. It is a very popular course they are freshly printed lessons, full of color, illustrations, amazing facts, on every page and we’ll send you a free copy.

Pastor Ross: It is entitled “Anything Left You Can Trust?” and it is all about the Bible and how that you can trust the Bible. To receive this free offer call our resource line. 1-800-835-6747 again that’s 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the study guide “Anything Left You Can Trust?” or you can ask for the study guide on the Bible and we’ll be happy to send that out to you.

Well going to the phone lines Sandy is calling from Southern Illinois. Sandy welcome to the program.

Sandy: Good evening Pastors. I would like to know if you have an in hand resource that explains why with communion that we use unleavened bread and non fermented grape juice.

Pastor Doug: Well we do have a booklet that talks more specifically about why the grape juice is to be unfermented. And that’s a book called “Alcohol and the Christian”. But, there’s a couple of verse. First of all there are several verses in the Bible that say that the bread for the communion should be unleavened. The first communion that Jesus actually ate with the disciples was actually a Passover service and so we know that the bread is always unleavened and then Paul says I think it’s in 1 Corinthians Pastor Ross where he says Christ is our Passover. And Jesus body—the leaven was a type of sin—Jesus was without sin, His blood was without sin and so the grape juice is a symbol of that.

Pastor Ross: That is 1 Corinthians Chapter 5:7.

Sandy: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: And then of course if you look in Mark 14:25 Jesus at the Last Supper He said to the disciples, “I say to you I ill drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until the day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.” And so He said drink it new that meant it is not fermented it is fresh. And so we believe that the grape juice that the disciples had here at the Lord’s Supper was of the unfermented variety. But, now in Israel—that time of year you didn’t have it right out of the wine vat because it wasn’t the harvest time. But, they had a way back then of concentrating it so it was very sweet, that prevented the fermentation.

Sandy: Alright. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless you.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Simon from Los Angeles listening on the internet. Simon welcome to the program.

Simon: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi and your question Simeon?

Simon: Yes in the Bible is there anything that speaks about Christ’s second coming and if so where?

Pastor Doug: Yeah there are several verses and a whole Chapter in Matthew Chapter 24. Jesus talks about the events and the signs connected with His return. And you’ll find another parallel Chapter in Mark 13 and then I don’t know if you’re writing these down Luke 17 and Luke 21. And then 1 Corinthians Chapter 4: 13 talks about the resurrection. In Revelation Chapter 20. So there are a number of places that refer to the second coming of Jesus. Revelation 14 also says that I beheld a white cloud and Him that sat upon it.

Pastor Ross: Revelation 14, Revelation 19.

Pastor Doug: Acts Chapter 1 Jesus said the same are the angels are the same way I left I am coming back again.

Pastor Ross: And then I think you mentioned I Corinthians 4:16 it’s 1 Thessalonians 4:16 dealing with the second coming of Christ.

Pastor Doug: Oh yeah thank you. And John Chapter 14 He said, “I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again also to receive you unto myself.” That’s a pretty explicit statement. So quite a few verses, but we have a study guide we can offer you on that, too.

Pastor Ross: It is filled with all types of verses and explanations dealing with the second coming. It is called the “Ultimate Deliverance”. The number to call is 1-800-835-6747 and Simeon ask for the book the “Ultimate Deliverance”. And we’ll be happy to send that to you. Tony is calling from Philadelphia. Tony welcome to the program.

Tony: Hi how are you guys doing?

Pastor Doug: Real well. How can we help you tonight?

Tony: I just have a question about working on the Sabbath my—I work for the Postal service in Philadelphia and my job requires me to work on a Saturday. I wanted to know is it wrong or a sin that I am working on a Saturday because I know that Saturday is the Sabbath? That is the day you have to keep holy, but I go to church every Sunday so is it wrong that I’m working on Saturday and going to church on Sunday?

Pastor Doug: Well you know when I first learned the Sabbath truth I did that for a little while, but I was terribly convicted that the Bible says that the seventh day is the Sabbath and God said I blessed this day and I rested this day I want you to rest this day. And we have to decide are we going to do it when it is convenient for us or is it a suggestion or is it a recommendation. Or is God commanding us. You know the Bible speaks of it in Deuteronomy Chapter 4 as the commandments. So when God commands us to rest on the seventh day and lay aside our regular labor, then He says I blessed this day. I think it is a dangerous thing for a man to say well it is more convenient for me to do it on Wednesday or Sunday or some other day. And so we just have to ask ourselves if we think the fourth commandment is as important to the Lord as the commandment that says don’t commit adultery or don’t kill or don’t steal. Do you see what I am saying Tony?

Tony: Yeah, but I have been with the Postal service like 22 years I mean do I quit my job and get a job that has Saturday as my off day? As far as what you are saying it is a commandment and it is not like we have a choice, but what would you do in my shoes?

Pastor Doug: Well I would tell you first of all that you have to make up your mind and I’ll give you a couple of answers here. First you have to make up your mind that you want to do what God wants you to do regardless of the consequences. Now let me just explain that some of the heroes in the Bible are people like Daniel who were going to lose his job if he were caught praying publically. And not only his job his life. And he was willing to lose his life and his job rather than not have his public time with God. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, they said they would rather go to the fiery furnace than break the commandment about idolatry. And that would mean more than losing their job and so you have to—if someone put a gun to your head and said –I don’t know if you’re married and they said look I want you to go off and cheat on your wife—would you do it to save your job? Would you do it to save your life? Most people kind of feel like that of the Ten Commandments that the Sabbath is kind of an optional one and it is just their attitude. And the second part of the question that I wanted to give you is that it just so happens we have a gentleman at our church and I won’t say his name, but he worked at the post office for twenty something years and learned the Sabbath Truth and said I want to keep it he went through a similar struggle. He wrote a letter and at least in California, they said because of your time and your religious conviction they found him five days a week work. And he now has Sabbaths off so sometimes because of Americans are allowed a lot of religious freedoms if your Pastor writes you a letter sometimes they will accommodate that.

Tony: Yeah that’s a good way to look at that to keep it. Just try to get like different days off.

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

Tony: Right now I am off Monday and Tuesday.

Pastor Doug: Well you might be able to get letter written or do something else.

Pastor Ross: You know Tony may not be the only one that finds himself or herself in the situation as Pastor Doug has mentioned. The first thing is to make that firm decision that you are going to follow God’s will and I have seen it time and time again Pastor Doug and you have, too, that when person steps out and says Lord if this is what you want me to do I am going to follow through with it. And God works in miraculous ways to sustain and provide. He knows our needs and He’s not going to abandon someone who is making a commitment to do what He has asked them to do.

Pastor Doug: God is waiting in the wings to perform a miracle and He often will not perform a miracle until we step in the water. And we take a step of faith and say I’m going to obey. When Daniel took a step of faith God performed a miracle He shut the mouth of the lion. When Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego took that step of faith He cooled down that furnace for them. And there is many times and sometimes God’s people do suffer when they step out in faith, but many times God will work miracles to provide for them. We have a study guide that we will be able to send you Tony on the forgotten day of history.

Pastor Ross: Called “The Lost Day of History” do you or for anyone listening who wants some more information about this the number to call is 1-800-835-6747 and you can ask for the study guide “The Lost Day of History” and we’ll be happy to send that to you. Wilbert is listening from Bismarck, South Dakota. Wilbert welcome to the program.

Wilbert: Thank you. Revelation 13:11 what do the two horns represent?

Pastor Doug: Alright let me read this for our friends. Revelation 13:11, “And I beheld another breast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke like a dragon.” Most Protestant Bible scholars like Martin Luther and Swingley and Spurgeon, and Matthew Henry and John Wesley, --there are two beasts in Revelation—they believe the first beast was the religious system in Europe that was compelling people to worship a better way known as the Roman Catholic Church. And they believed that the second beast or at least a more modern interpretation is the second beast that you find in verse 11 refers to Protestants based mainly in North America. The two horns being—it means it has got two horns like a lamb meaning it starts out with a lamb is good in the Bible, a lamb was a type of Christ, horns represent power, but it ends up speaking like a dragon. A dragon is bad, starts out good, and turns bad. The Americans started out with the two horns of power representing the two branches of our government the Republican and the Democrat, others have thought it meant we have a government without a king. We have a church without a pope in other words a freedom of government and freedom of religion—those two freedoms gave us our strength. I’m inclined to believe that’s what those two horns are. Is that the way you understand it Jean?

Pastor Ross: That is right. Just to add to that if you look at the first beast in Revelation Chapter 13 this beats has ten horns and ten crowns. And the second beast has two horns and some have identified this as it is not a monarchy as it is a democratic system of government which was unique and new at the time it was evolved.

Pastor Doug: That is right.

Pastor Ross: That’s another indication of who this power is and what those horns represent.

Pastor Doug: And the beast rises up out of the earth as opposed to the sea because it kind of represents a newly discovered land. Even though there were other people here, it was sparsely populated back then. Wilbert are you still there?

Wilbert: Yes.

Pastor Doug: We have a study guide we’ll send you especially in our day and age with what is happening this week in America. I think we are losing some freedoms, but it is a study guide called “America in Prophecy” and it talks specifically about your question about the two horns and what do they represent. All you’ve got to do is call and ask for it.

Pastor Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747 and the study guide is “America in Bible Prophecy” we’ll be happy to send that out. Our next caller is Dona and he is calling from Washington listening KLRF. Don welcome to the program.

Don: Well thank you. I have a question. I am going to be giving a presentation and I want to get a little more insight into 1 Kings 13:20-21. It is a story about Elisha after he died and they were burying a man and they put him down in Elisha’s tomb and when they touched the bones of Elisha he revived and stood up on his feet. What is the spiritual application or what message so you get today from that story?

Pastor Doug: You know that is a fascinating story and one thing that it tells me is Elisha had a double portion of Elijah’s spirit, but then you have to wonder because God took Elijah with a “J” to heaven in a fiery chariot. But, his apprentice Elisha that had a double portion of his spirit he grew old and died of a lingering sickness. The Bible tells us and yet he had a double portion of Elijah’s spirit. And the influence of his life was still reviving people even after he was gone. And I think this is one way God tells us that the life of a prophet in giving life does not stop when the prophet dies. Now you notice that Elisha did not jump back to life, but the man who touched the bones of Elisha came back to life. And other people can still be revived by the work of a prophet after they are gone. Their words still have life in them. And it is also interesting that blood comes from bones.

And I don’t know what Solomon says in Ecclesiastes who can tell how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child? And sometimes a person gets a certain type of cancer and they get a bone marrow transplant and so in many ways life is in bones. Because the Bible says the life is in the blood and the blood is in the bones. Do you see what I am saying?

Don: Right.

Pastor Doug: So there are a lot of analogies there and I am sure if you talked to a real scholar that I am not even skimming the surface.

Pastor Ross: Just another thought on that you would not expect life coming from dry bones and yet we have spiritual life through the death of Jesus so through His death we have life. And yet you have a dead man that is brought back to life because of another dead man.

Pastor Doug: And one more thought I might add to that and is it Ezekiel 37 the valley of the dry bones.

Don: Right.

Pastor Ross: Yes.

Pastor Doug: And we all have heard about the hip bone connected to the thigh bone. That is based on this Chapter in the Bible where Ezekiel preaches to these bones and by the word coming upon them and the spirit comes upon them and by these bones come back to life. So there you’ve got another example of how the words of a prophet give life to dead bones. So of course that is all a vision, but if you are teaching on the subject I’d bring that in.

Don: Right.

Pastor Doug: Well it takes up time anyway.

Don: Well thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Don I appreciate your call. God bless you.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Devante and Devante is listening on the internet in Nashville, Tennessee. Devante welcome to the program.

Devante: I am Devante. It is alright.

Pastor Doug: He is using the South African pronunciation of it.

Devante: Okay.

Pastor Doug: At least that is what I will say.


Pastor Doug: And your question?

Devante: Yes sir the feast of the Lord where recently was brought to my attention and I was given the verse as Exodus 12:14 I guess that is an argument and that we shouldn’t keep them. Do you want to read that?

Pastor Doug: Okay let’s go there Exodus 12:14 and first of all I should add that all of the feasts of the Lord you know God had a purpose for them and we can still learn from that purpose. It says, 14 “And this day shall be unto you for a memorial and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord throughout your generations. You shall keep it as a feast by an ordinance forever.” Now this is talking about the Passover. We still keep Passover. Every Christian when they celebrate a communion service Jesus first communion service was a Passover. And the whole idea of our partaking of the grape juice—we don’t kill lambs anymore because obviously because Christ is the lamb—right?

Devante: Right.

Pastor Doug: A matter of fact the New Testament says Jesus –we already read this tonight—Christ is our lamb our sacrifice for us.

Devante: 1 Corinthians 5:7 okay.

Pastor Doug: And so whenever we celebrate the Lord’s Supper and Paul doesn’t seem to emphasis the date anymore whenever you do it, he said whenever you do it. You know do this in remembrance of me that’s what Jesus said. But, I saw you were going to give your thoughts?

Pastor Ross: Yeah I wanted to just add to that. If you read on there in Exodus Chapter 12 not only does it talk about eating the unleavened bread, but it goes on to talking about killing the lamb, taking the blood and sprinkling on the door posts and if one is to hold to that is to still be kept today then we should probably go find lambs and kill them and sprinkle it on the door. In other words it is not for us to pick and choose what part of this we want to keep and what part of it we want to neglect. It doesn’t tell us anywhere in Exodus Chapter 12 that we keep some and reject the rest, but the ordinance that God told Israel to observe they were to observe completely, including the killing of the lamb and the sprinkling of the blood.

Pastor Doug: And it you read—and Pastor Ross is just finishing his series on Hebrews, one of the main messages in the whole book of Hebrews is that how Christ has brought a better covenant and all through the book Paul contrasts the old ceremonial system in the old priesthood with the new priesthood and the new reality of Jesus sacrifice and blood. And so it makes it very clear that the old were symbols. So that’s one of those places where the ceremony does carry on, but it is now the fulfillment of it and we don’t have to worry about Egyptians chasing us and killing lambs. Now we’ve got the spiritual angel of death is passing over us and Daniel’s judgment passes by because of the blood of Jesus, but we are under the reality of what that all pointed to.

Devante: Yeah I’ve heard like the Colossians 2:16 I’ve heard like a million different versions on that so.

Pastor Doug: Yeah Colossians 2:16 and even Romans 14 is a good place to go back to because Paul was talking about one day is a man’s in regard to the Lord. I have no burden to twist a person’s arm if they feel like keeping the feast of tabernacles or something and it is really hard to keep it the way they say in the Bible because you can’t go back to Jerusalem very easy and keep it the way it is prescribed there. We have a book we’ll send you Devante and it is called “Feast Days and Sabbaths”. So if you call our resource line we are going to give that to you for 50 % off free.

Pastor Ross: 1-800-835-6747 and the book is called “Feast Days and Sabbaths” and Devante we’ll be happy to send that to you if you call and ask for it.

Pastor Doug: How much time do we have 2 minutes? 1 and ½ that doesn’t sound like enough time to take another call. Don’t go away if you are waiting online for your question. We have a couple of things to share and right at the half time in our hour we take a break that is immoveable. And in the meantime I want to remind our friends that so much of what we do in the radio program is just the salt in the oats to make you thirsty. So that you will then go to our website and get a good drink on a lot of these questions we just have to give abbreviated answers so we can take as many as possible. But you will find much deeper information at the “Amazing Facts” website. If you have never been there I’d say what have you been waiting for? Go to “Amazing Facts dot org” You’ll find a lot of the resources that we offer for free. You can go to the free library there are Bible lessons you can enroll in. I just read a wonderful testimony of someone who went through the Bible course and they said that once they started they couldn’t stop and that it opened their eyes and changed their lives. It is a tremendous program and you can find that at “Amazing Facts dot org”. One more website that we’ll mention where you’ll find a spectrum of Bible lessons in many languages is called “Bible Universe dot com” and you’ll find the lessons in Spanish and Bible lessons in Farsi and French, in Romanian, in a plethora of other languages. So during the break if you’re at your computer or you can pull out your Blackberry and go check out some of these website. You will also find archives of these programs and our videos as well. We’ll be back in just a moment with more Bible questions.


Pastor Doug: For our friends if you have joined us somewhere along the way and haven’t figured it out yet this is “Bible Answers Live”. And we’re glad you are tuned in and we never know exactly what kind of questions will come in. So we have our laptops and we use it to search the word together so we can get the answers. We have some callers lined up so I am not even going push the phones pastor Ross who is net?

Pastor Ross: Alright our next caller is Tammy and she is calling from Oklahoma. Tammy welcome to the program.

Tammy: Yes I just wanted to know when Mary was and Joseph married because I was real surprised when they were traveling to Bethlehem that they were not married yet.

Pastor Doug: You mean when they went from Nazareth to Bethlehem? Yeah I think at that point they were married. But, you will find in Matthew it says before they came together and what that means is that even though they were married by ceremony ad legally married, Joseph did not touch her intimately until sometime after Jesus was born.

Tammy: Well in Luke it said something like they were betrothed or something like that.

Pastor Doug: Betrothed.

Tammy: Married, I thought it meant that they were engaged.

Pastor Doug: Yeah well when the first—before they went to Bethlehem and they were engaged and Joseph found out that she was pregnant. And the angel said don’t be afraid to take her as your wife. Then of course late they made it to Bethlehem. So by the time that they got to Bethlehem they were married.

Pastor Ross: Well I am looking here to see what it says and Matthew 1:24 it says, 24 Then Joseph, being raised from sleep did what the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife,” and then after that they go to Bethlehem. But, they were married before that.

Pastor Doug: Yeah so when Mary of course announced to Joseph she was pregnant and he knew he had nothing to do with it. He was going to put her away privately because he didn’t want to humiliate her. But, the angel said don’t do that marry her because this is a Holy Child. But then nine months later Caesar Augustus decides he wants the census and tax the world and they have to go to Bethlehem to register. So when they got to Bethlehem they were legally married.

Tammy: Okay thank you.

Pastor Ross: Just one other thought on that, it probably wouldn’t have looked too good if Joseph and Mary were not married and Mary was ready to give birth to a child.

Pastor Doug: Yeah that’s right it would be harder to get a hotel room. They already had problems. Alright we hope that helps a little Tammy and who is next?

Pastor Ross: Jason who is listening on the internet from Maryland. Jason welcome to the program.

Jason: Hello thank you guys.

Pastor Doug: Yes sir and how can we help you?

Jason: My question is from Revelation Chapter 17: 9-12 want me to read it?

Pastor Doug: No but that is a lot of verses.

Jason: Oh it is well my question is basically that the verse says there are kings and 5 have fallen 1 is and the other has not yet come. And when he comes he must continue a short time. Who are those 7 kings?

Pastor Doug: Okay that is a good question. The angel tells John after he sees this woman sitting on a beast with the seven heads and the ten horns that the seven heads which you saw are seven mountains on which the woman sits. So to begin with it tells us that this woman is sitting among seven hills. We later find out that the woman is Rome. Rome was the city that was ruling the world and Rome is known as the city of seven hills. There is really no disagreement about that. Even both Catholics and Protestants agree on that part. Catholics say the beast is Nero and the Protestants say that it is the Catholic Church. So there is some disagreement there, but then it goes the next step and it says that these seven mountains are not just seven hills, but they also represent seven kingdoms. Most scholars believe that these are the seven world empires that occupied and persecuted God’s people through the scope of history. Beginning with when they came out of Egypt and then Israel was born that would then be Egypt. Then the ten tribes were carried away by Assyria. The southern kingdom Judah was carried away by Babylon. That is 3 so far, and then you have Medo-Persia that occupied the Promised Land. Then Greece, now it says 5 are fallen so that being 5 behind you—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. It says one is and that’s the pagan Roman Empire led by the popes, it fell. And then you have the pagan Roman Empire led by the Caesars, it fell, then you have the papal Roman Empire led by the popes, religious or Holy Roman Empire. And then it receives a deadly wound and it comes back which is why it says—that he is also…

Pastor Ross: That is seven, yeah, the beast that was and is not and evens he is the eighth and he is of the seven, but goes into perdition.

Pastor Doug: Right. So he was the seventh has a deadly wound and comes back again. And so that is always the way I understood and taught it. I have met some in these last days that try to say these 7 kings represent 7 popes from 1928 when the Vatican reestablished itself as an independent state. I don’t really buy that.

Jason: And the other one about verse 12. Where it says the 10 horns are the 10 kings which will not receive a kingdom as yet. They receive their authority for 1 hour as kings with the beast.

Pastor Doug: Well when the Roman Empire disintegrated in its’ place were 10 distinct kingdoms. Now for long time that number was pretty clear. Over the years that number with the different World Wars. The division of the Roman Empire and the nations many of them are now are becoming part of the European Union. And are buying into the Euro so we are seeing some very interesting and almost prophetic confederacy that has formed over there in Europe right now, but the number isn’t 10 right now. I forget what it is, but it changes periodically. But, many have said that this is a symbolic number that is used to represent the Roman Empire. It used to be 10 and I used to be able to name them. But, I hope that helps a little bit Jason and I think we’ve got a study guide, a matter of fact, called the “The Beast, the Dragon and the Woman”.

Pastor Ross: And that’s a book that Amazing Facts is happy to offer you tonight Jason call 1-800-835-6747 and the book again is “The Beast, the Dragon and the Woman”.

Pastor Doug: We have got a study guide also we don’t offer it very much oh it is “The Other Woman”

Pastor Ross: Dealing with Babylon?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. It is a study guise called “The Other Woman” that we could also it is much of the same subject as “The Beast, the Dragon and the Woman”.

Pastor Ross: Again that is 1-800-835-6747. Let me also give you the number I also give you the resource line it is also for counseling and we have chaplains there. We would be happy to pray with you if you have a particular need.

Our next caller is Cindy and she is calling from Ontario, Canada. Cindy welcome to the program.

Cindy: Hi. How are you?

Pastor Doug: Very well.

Cindy: Very happy that you and I pray to God that you continue educating everybody. I want to get right to my question because I don’t want to take up a lot of your time. My family members and I have been having a debate. We have been having a debate about the Bible and the face of God like no one has seen the face of God. But, yet in Exodus I believe it is in Exodus when they talk about Moses coming down from the mountain and when Miriam and Aaron were grumbling. And God spoke to them and said well Moses spoke to me face to face. But, there are other Chapters in the Bible that say no man has seen the face of God. To me it seems contradictory. I want clarification on that.

Pastor Doug: Alright I don’t think it needs to be a contradiction. Sometimes when God says a friend that speaks to me face to face God did not necessarily mean that Moses was gazing into the unveiled glory of the father’s face. Because you can read in John 6:46 Jesus said, “Not that any man has seen the father.” Now we know people have seen God the son, of course Christ’s glory was veiled in humanity when He came to earth. He had to hide His glory is what Philippians tells us. And when Moses said the father Lord let me see your glory God said n man can see my face and live. And that is why He put Moses in the cleft of the rock and He said I will pass by and I will declare my name before you and you will see my hind parts. In other words I’ll take away my hand after I pass by and you will see my glory. And when God said He spoke to Moses face to face it is the same way we use that as an expression today they used it back then it just means that when Moses went up to talk to God God’s face was hidden in a cloud it tells us that as well.

Pastor Ross: In regards to that phrase where God said i spoke to Moses face to face if you read just before that it says God communicates through prophets, dreams and visions, but in the case of Moses He communicated directly with him.

Pastor Doug: Yeah he didn’t speak through a prophet a vision or a dream He spoke to him with a voice. So He used the colloquialism face to face, but, I ‘m sure that God’s face was shielded, by a veil somehow because by the cloud of glory that was seen on the mountain. It says Moses went up into the cloud.

Cindy: Okay. Alright.

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps a little.

Cindy: It does. Have one more comment for Tony who was talking about working on the Sabbath. When I was working I was I faced with something similar. Except that I had just started a job and so I wanted to give him some words of encouragement. So Tony if you are listening. I was starting a job not two months into my probation yet and my boss at the time demanded that I come in and work on the Sabbath and I told him no I couldn’t because to me it ultimately came down to am I going to serve my God or my boss? And I decided Lord I am going to serve you because I can always get another boss. And if this is not the right job for me you are going to provide for me regardless because you have always have. So I decided not to come in on a Saturday and I still continued to be there. And so I said Lord you handle the circumstances and the consequences because really I know this is not me fighting this that his is your war. And so I just wanted to give Tony that encouragement.

Pastor Doug: Good for you and I appreciate that. Cindy and God honored your faith. Everybody gets tested and so we can count on that and whenever you are presented with some truth and you take a step of faith you will be tested on it. And you grow stronger as a result. It is no fun living life in the safety zone all the time. You’ve got to step out on faith and put God to the test. I appreciate that Cindy.

Pastor Ross: Thank you for your call Cindy. Robert is listening from New Jersey on WMCA. Robert welcome to the program.

Robert: Good evening Pastors Ross and Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening.

Robert: My question is about the fall of man in Genesis Chapter 3 when God addresses the serpent and curses the serpent and said the serpent was the craftiest of all the animals. Two things that occurred to me right there number one is that if it was indeed the devil in the guise of the serpent then why did He curse the serpent? And number two why is the devil not mentioned at all in that part of Genesis? And even Eve says it was the serpent that deceives her.

Pastor Doug: Alright well first of all if you go to Revelation Chapter 12 there’s no question at all about who possessed the serpent. It tells us that the devil that old serpent of old, the devil and Satan. I mean it uses devil, Satan, serpent. And so you’ll find several places in the Bible, but mostly in Revelation where it tells us that the serpent was possessed by the devil took possession of that serpent and used it as a medium to deceive Eve. And when it says he was more subtle even today snakes are extremely very hypnotic creatures. And I have been to a serpentarium where I have seen some of the most beautiful- and I am sure a lot of ladies may not agree with me—but the snakes there their skin was almost iridescent. It was different colors and then it would move and it was absolutely hypnotic. And so back before sin in the Garden of Eden some believe that serpents could even fly. And that’s where you get these legends about flying dragons. They even have a flying serpent in Indonesia it kind of glides, but so the devil chose an extremely beautiful hypnotic mesmerizing creature to be the medium through which he would try to get Eve’s attention. If he appeared in his regular form as a fallen angel probably Adam and Eve had been warned about Lucifer’s rebellion and so he disguised himself and appeared as a serpent.

Robert: Why punish the snake? Actually it was controlled by the devil.

Pastor Doug: Yeah it is not the snakes fault. But, God used this to illustrate that whenever we allow ourselves to be a medium for the devil or to speak through us that we’ll suffer for it. I am sure the devil or the serpent didn’t have choice.

Pastor Ross: You know the lamb could say the same thing. It could say why am I now to be sacrificed I had nothing to do with the fall, but you have the serpent which after the fall becomes a symbol of Satan and you have the lamb which becomes the symbol of Christ as a sacrifice. And God used these two animals to illustrate a very important truth. That there is a real battle taking place in the and there is the devil and he is trying to deceive and destroy. And that was reminding people when they saw a snake and even today when we see a serpent we step back.

Pastor Doug: You know it is interesting that serpents can occupy almost any medium on earth. Meaning there are serpents on earth that swim in the sea. There are serpents that live underground. There are serpents that crawl on the ground through the grass in the trees and they even glide. And lambs only graze. So the devil will try to tempt you anywhere, but you can find Jesus at church. No you can find Jesus anywhere, too.

Robert: But why didn’t the Genesis account says well the devil through the guise of the serpent it just says the serpent. Why didn’t it use the devil talking through the serpent?

Pastor Doug: Well that is what I am saying it doesn’t in Genesis, but it does in Revelation and other parts of the Bible that the serpent was possessed by the devil. Revelation 12 was a great place where I think it mentions it at least twice.

Robert: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So if you’ll take a look there you will see that. Hey I’ve got a book that we can offer you. That deals with “Why Did God Make a Devil” and the study guide will cover a lot of Scripture about this. And the fall and the thing we are talking about tonight.

Pastor Ross: Again that number is 1-800-835-6747 and the study guide “Did God Create the Devil?” You know Pastor Doug this is such an important subject because I think Satan wants people to believe that he is not really real.

Pastor Doug: Or a comic character they joke about him, but he is a fiend and he is cold hearted and some serpents will eat their own young and the devil is that way,

Pastor Ross: The next caller is Chevonne listening on WMCA and calling from Manhattan, New York. Chevonne welcome to the program.

Chevonne: Hello how are you guys?

Pastor Doug: Good how can we help you tonight?

Chevonne: I have a question on Scriptures referring to marriage. Genesis 2:18 says, “And the Lord God says that it is not good that the man should be alone.” Then when I go to 1 Corinthians 7:38 it says, “Then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well, but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.” So I want to know are we better off not giving into marriage?

Pastor Doug: You need to read this in the context of who Paul is talking to. Whenever you read these Scriptures make sure you get the context historically. And also the verbage around the passage. Paul is speaking to the Corinthian Church at a time when Nero had just declared the Christian religion “Religio Elicite” or forbidden religion. Christians were being persecuted at this point Paul was indeed killed later by Nero. And so what Paul is saying is that if two Christians get married and try to have a family just be aware that fleeing for your life and carrying on your religion while you are married with children is going to compound your problems. And Paul goes on to say it is better to marry than burn and he meant burning with lust. So he goes on to say, but f you can withhold and you can probably be a more effective witness for the Lord by being single you are a little more free and loose to go on to witness and do missionary work than if you slucking family around the Roman Empire.

Chevonne: But when you’re married, you can still do God’s will and still work for the Lord whether you are single or married, but are you saying that if you are single you are concentrating more on the Lord?

Pastor Doug: It’s a little—well first of all it is less expensive because usually when they got married back then they had children and they started families. So Paul was saying if you want to be more mobile and you don’t want to worry about your children being raised by pagans because you’ve been put in prison then you might be better off being single. And so he is really trying to think about raising a family when at the time their religion was being hunted down.

Pastor Ross: And he—Paul is talking about missionary activity—it might not necessarily be that a person never gets married, but during that time of service, he thought it more profitable not to be married.

Pastor Doug: That is still true today.

Pastor Ross: That is right. I know a lot of young people who will travel overseas and they will do some missionary work and then come back and settle down and have a family. They can’t take their whole family with them overseas.

Chevonne: I see a lot of single people I know in my church they are single and not married, but they are stronger in the Lord. They work for the Lord and they go on about the Lord’s business compared to those who are married.

Pastor Doug: Yeah there are unique benefits to both marriage and singleness. And Paul is addressing this and Paul may have been a little bias because he was single.

Chevonne: Right like you should do better like I because he was single so he saying you know it is better.

Pastor Doug: Keep in mind that Paul had friends like Peter who was married. They were traveling and in and out of jail and Peter had a wife that Jesus healed his mother-in-law once so Peter had a wife back in Israel and it was tough when they had to leave their wives and children and go spread the gospel. So Paul also is just thinking about the hardships on the families.

Chevonne: Oh Okay.

Pastor Doug: Okay good question and I appreciate that Chevonne. We can probably get a couple o f more calls in her right?

Pastor Ross: Edwin is listening from King, Texas. Edwin welcome to the program.

Edwin: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi how are you doing Edwin?

Edwin: Good I am just regarding to a question. What kind of activities could we do at the Sabbath day?

Pastor Doug: Well I wouldn’t play any kind of competitive sports on the Sabbath. But, there is great recreation just hiking out in nature is a great day. You know to go walking or hiking through the woods and I don’t know you’d want to go rock climbing up a mountain because that gets a little technical. But, the idea is you want to get out there in God’s creation. That is good exercise and I discourage my kids from getting involved with playing on sports with a ball team because it doesn’t take long at all before it turns into a baseball game and or if you just toss them a ball and say yeah you can play with it. And it turns into a soccer game. The competitive stuff comes into it and so kids especially they get a lot of ants in their pants and they need to especially after sitting in church to get out there and run around and they get some exercise. You’ve got a whole litter of kids Pastor Ross.

Pastor Ross: Yeah. You know we do want to realize that kids have typically more energy than adults and we don’t want children to view Sabbath as a tedious time where they can’t move because there is nothing wrong with having the kids go outside and having them hike out in nature and burn off some of that energy, but we also want to keep the atmosphere and the attitude of Reverence that this is a special day.

Pastor Doug: Yeah sometimes I have taken my kids out and I’ll say let’s go for a bike ride around the neighborhood and even there you have to be careful because the next thing you know they are trying to jump something. But, whatever you do in life you are going to have to say oh well there are limits and you—human nature always tends to push the envelope. So I hope that helps a little bit. I have a DVD and you can maybe watch it for free and I think they even maybe have it on You Tube. It is a called “Sabbath, Sunday and the New Covenant” and in one of the DVDs if you type in Doug Batchelor on You Tube I saw all kinds of these things up there. It has one that talks about what are some good activities for the Sabbath. I think that is what you are asking Edwin.

Edwin: Okay. Thanks.

Pastor Doug: I appreciate it. God bless you.

Pastor Ross: The next caller is Gary listening on the internet from Colorado Springs. Gary welcome to the program.

Gary: Thank you for taking my call. Let me preface my question by saying I don’t have anything against giving financially to the church or other worthy organizations. But, my question is about tithing and the perspective that some churches are taking because from my understanding of reading the Scripture is that tithing is used specifically to support the Levitical priesthood, during the time after the exodus and actually up to the point where the Messiah came and was crucified and risen. Now that the Levitical priesthood doesn’t exist anymore because it basically served as the administrative portion of the government and Israel has a system.

Pastor Doug: Gary we’re going to run out of time. We’ve just got about a minute left so can you summarize it?

Gary: Okay basically my question is tithing a legitimate way to approach this or is—should it really be a free will offering?

Pastor Doug: Should New Testament Christians still observe the tithing laws?

Gary: Correct.

Pastor Doug: I would say yes, but beyond that actually because when you get to the New Testament they are giving money more than 10%. You read places like Acts Chapter 2 where it says, “That no man says ought that he to have is his own, but let every man have everything in common.” And then you read in Acts Chapter 4, “Neither was there any among them that lacked for anything because as many as were possessors of lands and houses sold them and they brought the prices of those things that were sold and they laid them down at the apostles feet.” So tithe is sort of kindergarten for giving and that was to support the Levitical priesthood. Christ basically said to the rich young ruler go sell all that you have and take up your cross and follow me. For Christians I would think of we would believe in tithe. A life of sacrifice that’s a starting place and then there are offerings beyond that. But, there is no other way given in the Bible by the Lord for the support of Ministry. The Ministers in the Old Testament were the Priests and in the New Testament they are the Pastors and the Elders. And you know Paul does talk about that the labor is worthy of his hire so he still has a system. And the only system given in the Bible is tithe so we must assume that it is still intact.

Pastor Ross: Just real quick if you will look-in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Paul makes a very clear case that the tithing principle is still relevant for the support of the gospel to today.

Pastor Doug: Matthew 23:23 also Jesus says that. Hey we’re out of time, but if you are still listening Gary we have that study guide “In God We Trust”. We’ll send you a free copy of that and it is 1-800-463-7297? We’re out of time God Bless friends.


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