The Hoxne Hoard

The Hoxne Hoard

Date: 09/13/2009 
In November, 1992, a farmer living near the village of Hoxne in Suffolk, England, lost a hammer in one of his fields. Of course, he wanted to find the hammer but

A New Revelation DVD and Study Guide by Doug Batchelor

A New Revelation DVD and Study Guide by Doug Batchelor
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? In November, 1992, a farmer living near the village of Hoxne in Suffolk, England, lost a hammer in one of his fields. Of course, he wanted to find the hammer but more importantly, a hammer lying in a farm field can do a lot of damage to mowers and harvesting equipment.

So the farmer asked Eric Lawes to use his metal detector to search for it. While searching for the hammer, Lawes happened upon something he wasn't looking for: 24 bronze coins, 565 gold coins, and nearly 15,000 silver coins, not to mention hundreds of gold and silver spoons, jewelry, and statues, all dating back to the Roman empire.

It was the largest hoard of silver and gold from this era ever discovered in the United Kingdom. It's believed the treasure was hidden early in 408 A.D. as the Roman empire was crumbling and loosing control of Britain. Evidently, the treasure had been buried in a couple of chests that had rotted away because two silver locks were found nearby.

The careful burial suggests that the owner intended to come back and recover it later; but obviously something went wrong. As required by British law, the so-called Hoxne Hoard was reported to the local authorities, who declared it a treasure trove, meaning it was now legally the property of Britain.

The Hoxne Hoard is now on permanent display in the British museum drawing thousands of people every year. I should add, the government was required to pay fair-market value for a treasure trove, meaning the farmer and Lawes evidently spent $2.8 million dollars that they had received. Sadly, the hammer was never found.

Did you know the Bible talks about finding treasure in the field? Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: We're going to take the next 56 minutes and talk about the most important thing in the world, it's the Word of God, the truth. And these Words can make an eternal difference in your life. Friends, I'd like to encourage you to stay tuned now as we're going to receive Bible questions from around the world.

This is a live, international, interactive Bible study. We like to believe that you're tuning in by providence. The call-in number if you have a Bible question, we've got lines open right now. It's a free phone call, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. For your Bible questions, you just dial 1-800-463-7297, and we will do our best to search the Word together and find the answers. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug. Before we begin with Bible questions this evening, let's start with prayer. Dear Father, we thank You again that we're able to study Your Word. We thank You for this technology that has made this Bible study possible, where folks all around the country and even around the world can participate in this exciting work in digging in Your Word for treasure. We ask Your blessing upon this program. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know Pastor Doug, I don't think there is just about anyone who hasn't, at some point in their life, imagined what it would be like to be out in your backyard one day, digging around, and come across some fantastic treasure that had been hidden there. And it's all yours.

Well it looks like that was more than a dream for this gentleman over there in England who actually found a treasure in his field.

Pastor Doug: It's phenomenal that uh, well for one thing, it's phenomenal that as soon as they found it, they reported it. I mean, so many people would probably go rooting around in the treasure and trying to squirrel away as much gold as they could. But they dutifully reported it, and it was all chronicled and carefully excavated from the ground.

But probably most kids, at some point, that did some digging in their backyard or somewhere were dreaming of finding hidden treasure. Jesus actually tells a parable that sounds very much like what happened in England in 1992. In Matthew 13:44, the Lord says, "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field; which a man found and hid. And for joy of it, he goes and he sells all that he has, and he buys the field."

So Jesus paints a picture of somebody that's plowing in this rented field or something and they bump into this obstruction, and they try to move what they think is a rock out of the way; and they find a chest full of treasure. That wasn't that uncommon back in Christ's time because they didn't have banks or safety deposit boxes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

People would frequently pace off some area out in their field when no one was looking and dig and buy it, and then just tell a few select people. But Christ is then saying that if you find treasure in a field and you know it's there, would you sell everything that you have to buy a field if you knew that there was--what did the Lawes and the farmer get, $2.8 million dollars? Sure you would, unless you've got more money than that!

And in the same way, eternal life is worth everything. It's infinitely more valuable than gold and silver from the Roman era. Jesus is saying, "What profit is it, if you gain the whole world, and lose your soul?" He's offering us something that will give us, not only eternal life, but eternal life in bodies that don't have any aches or pains in a world where there's no more sickness or death.

What could be worth more than that? I mean, what do people spend their money on? Better health? Longer life? Pleasures? Heaven will have all of that eternally. So it's worth more than any amount of treasure on earth. And yet people--and there are some listening right now--they wonder if it's even true; I would say if someone told you that if you pace off 15 feet north in your backyard you're going to find a ton of treasure a foot down, wouldn't you at least look in curiosity?

And if someone is telling you that in the Bible you're going to find the secret to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come, it's worth investigation.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Amen!

Pastor Doug: So, we have a free offer tonight that talks about this treasure, and we'll send it to anybody who asks. You owe it to yourself to request the free offer tonight.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The book is entitled, Riches of Grace. It's absolutely free. It explains more about this great treasure that can be found in God's Word. Again, the title of the book, Riches of Grace. To receive it, call our toll-free number, 1-800-835-6747; and just request the book, Riches of Grace. We'll be happy to send that out.

Well Pastor Doug, we have someone that sent an email and it's a Bible question so we'll start our program off with this question this evening. The question is, did Jesus go through hell while He was on the cross?

Pastor Doug: Well, He experienced what you might call, facing the second death, when He was hanging on the cross. He, bearing the sins of the world, could not look beyond that. And just this weekend, I spoke about the subject of Christ is reflected in the different heroes of the Bible. You can see the lawgiver of Jesus in Moses; and you can see the majesty of Jesus in King David; and the wisdom of Jesus in Solomon; and the forgiveness of Jesus in the story of Joseph; and the sufferings of Jesus are very well depicted in the book of Job.

So you look at what Job went through, loosing all of his treasure, all of his family, his health, covered from top to bottom with painful boils, sitting in a city dump, scraping himself, being denied by his friends until his wife, discouraging him, saying, "curse God and die." He went through a type of hell.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Christ experienced the weight of the guilt of the sins of the world. That was the most anguish for Him. That's why it rung from His lips the prayer, you know, "If this can pass from Me, Father, if there is any other way, then let it pass." So in that sense, Jesus experienced the suffering and the penalty for every sinner.

Now some might be wondering, there's a statement there in 1st Peter where it says Christ preached to those in prison. And some have wondered does this mean that Jesus, when He died, He wasn't really in the tomb, but He went down to hell and He preached to people that were in Hades or some place of torment. That's not what that's saying in that passage there in 1st Peter.

Pastor Jëan Ross: First Peter 3:19.

Pastor Doug: Yes; and why don't you read that for us?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Again, 1st Peter chapter 3, verse 19. It says, "By which also He," speaking of Christ, "went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" And verse 20, "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing."

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Now the idea that Jesus, when He was after He died, instead of really being dead in the tomb, He was going around preaching to people from the days of Noah that needed a second chance, nothing in the Bible teaches that once a person dies that they can then repent and have a second chance at salvation. It says, "By the Spirit, Christ preached"--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Let me read that verse as well. I started in verse 19, but really verse 18 will give us the context, 1st Peter 3:18. "For Christ also suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison."

Pastor Doug: Yes. So it's Christ who is also preaching through Noah, the same Spirit. The Bible talks about Elisha wanted a double portion of Elijah's spirit. Well Elijah doesn't have his own spirit. The Spirit that Noah preached through was the same Spirit of Christ. And the scripture that supports that is there in Genesis chapter 6 where God says, "My spirit will not always strive with man." And that's verse 3 I believe.

So this is what that's really talking about. I hope that helps answer that Internet question. By the way friends, sometimes people in prison, they can't always call in. Seldom can they call in; but sometimes they are able to access the Internet and to email us questions. Who's next?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Let's go to the phone lines. Loretta is listening from Savannah, Tennessee. Loretta, welcome to the program.

Loretta: Thank you. Hello?

Pastor Doug: Hi Loretta, welcome to the program.

Loretta: Thank you for this opportunity to speak with you guys. Pastor Doug, I do want to tell you this. Every time I hear the word "plethora" I think of you.

Pastor Doug: (Laughs) Alright, well, I enjoy saying that word.

Loretta: Yeah, I noticed.

Pastor Doug: When I learn a new word, I gotta' use it a lot to remember it. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Loretta: How much is an omer?

Pastor Doug: Oh okay uh, Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, I was looking it up as we were getting ready to take this call. You can read about an omer in Exodus the 16th chapter, and it's verse 16. An omer is a tenth part of an ephah; and an ephah is about two dry quarts. So it's a tenth of two dry quarts, would one omer.

Loretta: Okay. What about a cubit? How long is a cubit?

Pastor Doug: A cubit is the measurement, and it varied with the Babylonians and the Egyptians, but it was typically the measurement from the elbow to the forefinger of the average man. They use, right now, a standard of 18 inches for a cubit. Now, like I said, there's a little variation between the Babylonian cubit and the Egyptian cubit, but a cubit was about 18 inches.

Loretta: Or, kind of, more of an approximation.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well right now, most scholars will use 18 inches. When you're looking at the size of the ark, when you're looking at the size of Goliath, if you use 18 inches, you'll have a pretty safe estimate.

Loretta: Oh okay.

Pastor Doug: Now I personally think the ark was bigger than the 18-inch cubit, but it's hard to prove that because Noah lived before the Egyptians or the Babylonians; and he was probably taller, because he lived 900-something years.

Loretta: In Joshua, I was reading through Joshua, and it talks about the half-tribe of Manasseh.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Loretta: And my question is, one, are they always talking about the same half-tribe tribe; and two, what happened to the other half?

Pastor Doug: Alright. When the children of Israel got ready--it's a good question--to cross over into the promised land, two and a half tribes said, "You know what? The pasture for our flocks on the east side of Jordan is so lush, we can't imagine wanting anything better than this. So, we'll go over and fight with you to help occupy the promised land, but we'll be happy to have our inheritance here."

And so, the two tribes, I'm trying to remember which two they were, and half the tribe Manasseh stayed on the east side of the Jordan. The other half of Manasseh was absorbed into the tribe of Ephraim. So, whenever it refers to the half-tribe, it's talking about the one that stayed with the other two brothers, or tribes I should say, on the east side of the Jordan in the land of Gilead there.

Loretta: So we are always talking about the same half?

Pastor Doug: Yeah; and they're talking about the one that stayed on the east. The other tribe kind of got absorbed. The other half got absorbed with Ephraim.

Loretta: Oh okay, so they're not referred to as the other half-tribe.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. You'll never hear about the other half that ended up going to the promised land.

Loretta: Okay, I've got about 30 seconds left. In Joshua, it talks about the book of Jasher. I understand that's not an apocryphal book, but it's a book that was just not part of the Canon?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Evidently, there was a prophet named Jasher who had written a book. There are several references. In the book of Samuel, it talks about the book of Gad the seer, and the book of Nathan the prophet. So there are three or four books that are listed in the Bible that we don't really have anymore.

And evidently, God didn't see that they needed to be added to the Canon of Scripture because they were probably special messages for a specific time and that were not, kind of, universal in nature. But anyway, I hope that helps a little bit, Loretta. You had some good questions tonight, but we've got a few people lined up now; so probably ought to move on, Pastor Ross.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Mark and he is listening from Knoxville, Tennessee, listening on WITA. Mark, you're on Bible Answers Live.

Mark: Hi

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Mark: My question is, I know that the word "forever" can refer to a limited period of time in the Bible.

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Mark: But, well this is a two-part question. First is, "for ever and ever" works than simply "forever"? And the second part is, can "day and night for ever and ever" mean as little as a few days and a few nights?

Pastor Doug: Well, you must be talking about Genesis 20, where you find that phrase?

Mark: Ah well, the part about, "day and night for ever and ever," I'm referring to Revelation 20:10.

Pastor Doug: Yeah it's in Revelation 20, verse 10.

Mark: And then when the word "ever" is used twice, like, "for ever and ever," does that make it worse than simply the word "forever"?

Pastor Doug: Well I think what it's emphasizing here is God is so merciful. For instance, when Jonah went and preached to the Ninevites that in 40 days the city would be destroyed, the people repented, and God repented of His judgment. But in Revelation, this is after the door of mercy is closed.

In Revelation 20, when the wicked are cast in the lake of fire, it uses the word, "for ever and ever" to indicate there is no forgiveness for this. There's no turning back. There is going to be no mercy. Their judgment is permanent. It's like when Jesus said, "Verily verily," why would Jesus say--and the word "verily" means "truly." Jesus could have said "truly" once and He would have been just as true. Why does He say, "Truly truly"? You know, I think He's emphasizing the finality and the certainty of what He's saying.

Pastor Jëan Ross: I think it's also brought to light in Revelation 20, verse 10, where it says, "The devil shall be destroyed. He shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever," there is no escape; the doom that is in store for the devil. He will ultimately be destroyed. There will be no turning back.

Pastor Doug: And he will burn. We don't know how long, but he's going to burn at least a few days and nights.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And he'll be burnt up and--

Mark: What about sinners?

Pastor Doug: Well you can read in Malachi chapter 4:1, where it says, "Behold, the day comes, that will burn as an oven; and all the proud, and all that do wickedly," that's ALL--all the wicked, all the proud--"shall be stubble: the day that comes will burn them up, it will leave them neither root nor branch."

So speaking of the wicked, God says they'll be burnt up. There's neither root nor branch; and then it tells you they will be devoured. In Revelation chapter 20, fire comes down from heaven and devours them. And then it says it consumes them and they perish. These are just some of the words that are used to describe the fate of the wicked.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Revelation 22, verse 12, Jesus says that when He comes, He will come quickly and His rewards will be with Him to give every man according to his work. So that would be true for the righteous, but it will also be true for the wicked; and the reward of their work will be death, but there will be degrees to the punishment of the wicked.

Mark: But "for ever and ever" don't necessarily mean a lot longer period of time than just "forever"?

Pastor Doug: Well in the verse you're reading in Revelation 20, it's talking about the punishment of Satan in particular. We ought to read that for people here. We've been talking about it and I think it would just be good to read it. You want to read it Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: I have it here. "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Pastor Doug: Now, it's talking specifically about the devil here. The words here, "for ever" are from the Greek words, "ion" that are used; and have you ever, probably said, "I haven't seen that person in ions"? It's an unspecified period of time, but here it's basically saying Satan is going to be burned according to what he deserves. And if anyone deserves a lot of punishment, who would deserve the most?

Mark: The devil.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it would be the instigator of all sin. But even he will ultimately be consumed. There's a verse in uh, is it in Ezekiel where God says, speaking of Lucifer, "I'll bring forth a fire from the midst of thee," is that Ezekiel 28?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: "It will devour thee, I'll bring you to ashes on the earth in the sight of them that behold thee." Even the devil, it says, ultimately will be brought to ashes. You know, a number of questions you're asking, Mark, sound perfect for a website that has become very popular; and it's called, helltruth.com. A lot of questions about what is the punishment of the wicked and the devil. A lot of confusing verses people see in the Bible.

One place it seems to say that hell burns forever; another place it says there's no more pain. So how can you have both? If anyone wants to know more about this, we recommend you go to helltruth.com. A lot of information there on that subject.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We also have a study guide talking about the subject of the destruction of the wicked, talking about hell. It's called, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" It's free if you call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" And Pastor Doug, it answers this very question in Revelation chapter 20, verse 10. Going to the next caller. April is listening on the Internet calling from Ohio. April, welcome to Bible Answers.

April: Hi, thank you.

Pastor Doug: Hi

April: My question has to do with tithe. The way my particular church gathers tithe, it goes to Conference based on your location. My question is concerning, is it Biblical to pick your own storehouse where you want to send your tithes to?

Pastor Doug: Let's talk about that. If the Lord says in Malachi chapter 3, verse 10, "Bring all the tithe into the storehouse," let's just say, hypothetically, that if every church member were to say, "I'll decide where I want that storehouse to be" instead of them collectively agreeing, then when it comes time to support missionaries and pastors around the world, if everybody is, sort of, sending it to their favorite Bible society or ministry, it makes it very hard for a denomination to plan and employ an army of missionaries, teachers, and pastors.

So, whenever I think about, hypothetically, what are some of the different scenarios for how you would do that, I always say, "Well, what if everyone does that, then what happens?"

April: Yeah

Pastor Doug: And so I think that, you know, as a family, as a church family, for one thing, if I attend a church, and yet I'm sending my tithe to an organization that lends no support to the church I'm attending, it's kind of like a man that lives with one wife that does all the cooking and cleaning, and he sends his money to a girl on another port. You'd think if you're going to attend a church and reap the benefits of that church family, you'd want to support it too, you know what I'm saying?

April: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I was just seeing if there was any other information, you know?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. You know in the Batchelor family, sometimes there are a lot of ministries we believe in that are out there. And we not only support Amazing Facts, we support a number of other Christian ministries, as well as returning tithe to our Conference.

April: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Alright?

April: That's good enough. Thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: Thank you, God bless. And by the way, for April, and anyone else that's asking, we do have a study guide that deals with the subject of tithes and offerings and what does the Bible teach about this. A lot of people call, Pastor Ross, and they say, "Well now that we're in New Testament times, the principle of tithe, well it doesn't apply any more. It's just for the Old Testament."

You might be surprised what the New Testament says on that subject friends. So you might want to ask for the book,

Pastor Jëan Ross: In God We Trust. And the number, 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Doug: And it's free!

Pastor Jëan Ross: It's free. Ask for the study guide, In God We Trust, and we'll be happy to send that out to you. We're going to go to our next caller. Marshall is calling from Dearborn, Michigan. Marshall, welcome to the program.

Marshall: Yes, hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross. It's good to speak to you again.

Pastor Doug: You too, and how can we help you tonight?

Marshall: I have a quick question to ask. It's about the subject of suicide. I remember hearing you say in previous broadcasts that when people commit suicide, you hope that the Lord would judge them according to what they were before they committed suicide. Now, my understanding of salvation--please correct me if I'm wrong--is that, when a person accepts Jesus as their personal Savior, don't get me wrong, I know that people need to be baptized to, you know, receive the Holy Spirit. But my understanding is when a person gets into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, all their sins, past and in the future, are forgiven. That then raises another question, if a person is a Christian, how could they commit suicide? But Christians can have the same problems as non-Christians, you know what I'm trying ask?

Pastor Doug: You know, I think I know what you're saying, Marshall. Let me see if I can dive in and address a couple of things. And we've just got a couple of minutes before our break so I'm going to try to cover as much as I can. First, you said one thing that I need to probably address and correct: When we accept Jesus, that He forgives all of our past and future sins.

I would say that Christ, when you come to Him, He completely forgives all of your past; and He gives you grace for the present. But the Lord does not really give you an indulgence, or a license, for future sin.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Just to back that up Pastor Doug. In Romans chapter 3, verse 25, it says that Christ died. He became the propitiation for our sins that are past. In other words, the sins that we confessed. Those are the sins that are forgiven, not the sins that we're going to commit in the future.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, we don't get an advanced credit for sins we're planning on committing. I know you didn't mean it that way, Marshall. I just wanted to clear that up. And then again I had said one time, there may be people that have lived Godly lives, and then something happens at the end of their lives.

They have a car accident. Their brains get affected by it and they become depressed. Sometimes, I've seen people in hospitals. And because of the medication from the surgery, they're just not themselves; and they might do something foolish and commit suicide. I'd say in a case like that, I would trust that God would judge them based on the trend of their life, and not on the unfortunate tragedy at the end that scrambled their thinking.

But typically, suicide is an indicator that a person is faithless. They've lost faith, they've lost hope. And I would not feel very comfortable about a person's salvation if the last act of their life is self-murder, being that not murdering is one of the Ten Commandments. I just wanted to

say there may be exceptions. I don't want to close the door of hope for people, but that certainly would not be the pattern.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course throughout scripture, we see that whatever situation a person is in, God is able to carry him through. Think of the experience of Job.

Pastor Doug: Yeah!

Pastor Jëan Ross: The things that he faced; and yet, God is able to carry him through. So we never want to give up on God.

Pastor Doug: Yup. And even Job, I was reading this week, he was praying for the day that he was born and wishing it didn't happen; and he was wishing he was dead. And even Elijah said, "Lord, slay me." But they didn't slay themselves.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: They said, "Lord, slay me. I'm not better than my fathers. Let me die." So sometimes, they had those thoughts where they didn't want to live anymore; but they recognized it was a sin to kill themselves, except Judas, who we know grieved away the Holy Spirit. He killed himself. And Saul grieved away the Holy Spirit, and then he fell on his sword.

So, it's not a good record in the Bible. And then Ahithophel, he turned from King David, betrayed him, and then hung himself. So the suicides in the Bible don't have a lot of hope, Biblically speaking. You know, I don't think we have time to take another caller, so I'll tell you what we ought to do Pastor Ross--yup, I knew that music was coming pretty quick.

I always like to remind folks, one of the ways this program goes on--by the way, we're not over, just taking a break, coming back with more Bible questions. Matter of fact, we've got two or three lines open f you want to try and get your question in tonight's program.

We have a website that has just gone into orbit. It's a very popular, new, fantastic, awesome website. It's called, bibleprophecytruth.com. If you look there, you're going to see just all of these Bible subjects that people are really interested in, like 666, and the anti-Christ, and the battle of Armageddon, death, and hell, and the secret rapture, and the millennium, and Babylon, and so much more.

We have study materials on these things that you can use if you're in a Bible study group, for your own personal study, I think you'll find it very interesting. I like some of the charts that are in there. It gives the prophetic time charts, and in addition to that, they've got a list of Bible numbers and what their meanings are, as well as Bible symbols and their meanings. Don't go away friends. We'll be back in just a moment with more Bible questions.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know Pastor Doug, just before we take that break if we're not ready for that, another thing I like about that website is that it also contains audio and video information.

Pastor Doug: That's right. There are whole sermons that they can watch.

Pastor Jëan Ross: They can watch and they can listen to live.

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Yup. If you want to see a sermon on 666 or a sermon on the beast, that's all available there. Just one more time, that address is, bibleprophecytruth.com. We're not hearing the backup music, but I'll talk as long as we want. This is usually something we provide time for station identification.

While we're at it, we did talk to our friends earlier in the program about the Hell Truth website. And then, people often have a lot of questions about the subject of death, which is a little bit related to that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That last call we had.

Pastor Doug: truthaboutdeath.com will be another good one that people can utilize. Well, we're going to get ready to take a break here, friends. And we're going to come back with more Bible questions in just a moment. If you have Bible questions, one more time, that number is, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297. Don't forget that we also have a free offer we're making available tonight.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The free offer is entitled, Riches of Grace. It deals with the subject of salvation and the promises of God. To receive that free offer, call our resource line at 1-800-835-6747, and we'll be happy to send that out to you. Again, it's entitled, Riches of Grace; and when you call, just ask for it. It's free. We'll be happy to put it in the mail. And we trust that it will be a blessing to you as it has been for so many other people.

Pastor Doug: One more thing I thought I mentioned, we're having free time so we're going to use it here. There's a new website called, amazingfacts.tv.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes!

Pastor Doug: Twenty-four hours a day, it's evangelism programming. I hope you folks have pencils handy and you're able to write all of these down because we're giving you a number of websites. It's amazingfacts.tv; and 24-hour evangelistic programming. Take a look at that. We'll be back here in just a moment, friends, with more Bible questions.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: Listening friends, if you have just joined us, this is Bible Answers Live. And if you're wondering what it is we do, we take your Bible questions from all over the world. You can even email them to us at amazingfacts.org; and we search the Word together.

Pastor Jëan Ross and myself are sitting here with very powerful computers before us that have the Bible in the original languages, and many translations, and a lot of Bible commentaries. And we want to understand the Word of God. It's the revelation of the Almighty, and He wants us to know what His Word is.

If you've got a Bible question, once again, it's 1-800-GOD-SAYS, that's 1-800-463-7297; and as I mentioned, my name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And my name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, we're going to go straight to the phone lines. Jim is calling from Ohio. Jim, welcome to the program.

Jim: Hey, good evening. It's late evening up here. Hey I liked your story about the treasure in the field. I had a member of our church give me a plethora of books.

Pastor Doug and Pastor Jëan Ross: (Laughs)

Jim: And one of the books I found was called, The Coming King, by James White. And the only date that I found in there was 1898. I'm a big book person, and to find a book that old--

Pastor Doug: Wow!

Jim: --and really in good shape, I was, kind of, happy and amazed to find it. My question is, I attended a church yesterday and they honor the feast of the tabernacles, the trumpets, the unleavened bread. Are we still obligated to honor those days?

Pastor Doug: There were two kinds of holy days in the Bible. There was the original holy day of the Sabbath that dates before sin, that was one of the Ten Commandments, and still is. That's why God said, "Remember."

Then there were a number of annual feast days that were all shadows that pointed to Christ; and Passover, for instance, was one of those feast days. Paul tells us that Jesus is now our Passover that was sacrificed for us. Obviously, you know, we don't need to sacrifice lambs anymore; so for us to keep the Passover the way it was given to Israel, would, sort of be a denial of the sacrifice of Jesus.

Jim: Okay

Pastor Doug: And so uh, if anything was nailed to the cross, it was not the Sabbath day of the Ten Commandments of creation; but was the sabbath days of the ceremonial feasts in Leviticus.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Just one other thought related to those feast days. In order for a person to keep the feast days, according to Scripture, well that would require journeying to Jerusalem and sacrificing a lamb, and so on--

Pastor Doug: And going to the temple that's not there anymore.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It's not there. So even people today who claim to keep the feast days, well they've reinterpreted what that means to keep. They've made modifications; and we don't see that in Scripture. For example, if you take the seventh-day Sabbath, God doesn't say, "Well you know, this is something that you can modify for your convenience." God tells us how to remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

Jim: Do you have any books on those days, or?

Pastor Doug: We do.

Jim: Okay

Pastor Jëan Ross: It's entitled, Feast Days & Sabbaths. You Jim, it's free. We'll send it to you, or anybody who has questions on this. Again, the book is called, Feast Days & Sabbaths, and the number to call is 1-800-835-6747, and we'll send that out to you. Thanks for your call Jim. We're moving on to our next caller. Phil is calling from New York. Phil, welcome to the program.

Phil: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Hi, and your question?

Phil: Yes, my question is regarding military. As far as the Bible is concerned, where can I find anything specifically related to serving your country in the military? I know some of the examples that I can remember are where the centurion gave his heart to Christ, but he still had to serve. And then prior to Christ, he actually had to serve to defend Israel. But now, how does that stand now?

Pastor Doug: Well, John the Baptist did address the soldiers, and he said, "Do violence to no man" when they were saying, "What shall we do?" So it's understood that every country in the world has a military. Every nation has a military of some sort; whether it's a modified police brigade, or a massive army like the U.S. or North Korea or something.

And so the question is, what about believers? How do they deal with it? You know, a lot of people have struggled with this as a moral question. Obvious, in a country like the U.S. where we are so thankful for our freedom, and freedom to worship God, it would seem, like, kind of a contradiction to say, "We believe in that kind of freedom and supporting that freedom, and we're glad that soldiers die and pour out their blood for the freedom, but we can't do it."

So, I've always struggled with that. I've got two kids that have been in the military and I'm very proud of their service; but at the same time here's the other issue, Phil. For a Christian to enter the military and take up weapons where we would take another life, with what Jesus says about that, that also can be a dilemma.

My advice is that Christians find a way to serve their country and support their country where they're not going to place themselves under the authority of someone. It's very hard for a Bible Christian to follow their convictions in the military; and so be as supportive as you can be. When Christian young people say, "Well I'm thinking of going into the military," and I've said this to my own kids, you've got to beware.

I used to go to military school so it's two different schools, so I know something about having other people tell you about every minute of you day, what you're going to be doing. If you say, "Well I'm going to church every week," they might say, "Not this week because we've got other things planned." And so it becomes very difficult to live by your convictions in the military environment for a Christian.

Phil: Yes

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know it's one thing, Pastor Doug, when somebody finds themselves in that type of situation when maybe they're required to go sign up and be a part of the military. Even in those situations, God is able to work through people. We have stories of people that have stood up for their faith. God has blessed them; but we don't want to put ourselves purposely in a situation that's going to make it difficult for us to carry out our convictions.

Pastor Doug: And one more thought, Phil. During times of national crisis, like World War I and II, or even Vietnam, sometimes young men were drafted. I don't know if they drafted any women. But when they found themselves in that situation, they said, "Look, I'm happy to serve the country, but I'd like to do it in some non-combative role. I'll go on the front lines as a Medic, but I'm not going to bear arms."

Phil: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: And so, there are ways to serve and show your support for your country where you don't really take up arms and take another life. You're there to save life--

[Cross talk]

Phil: This is actually some of the counsel that I've given to a friend of mine who's actually been thinking about it. I don't know exactly how the military works, but I know that they would choose to do something not combative, like nurse, healthcare, or things like that. But some of them actually want to be a pilot. And so, one of the things of being a pilot, like, for example, in the Air Force or even joining the Navy to become a pilot, is aren't you, in some way, contributing to the aid of war, you know, to aiding war in some minute way?

Pastor Doug: Yes tech--

Phil: For example, if you're supplying the gas, if you're supplying the fuel for the bombers, or for the fighters, is that something?

Pastor Doug: Well, let me give you something to think about Phil. Even here in the U.S., if you're paying your taxes, we're all contributing in some way, because it's your tax money that pays for the gas that goes in the bomber. And so if some people are working in some supportive role, well, every American citizen that pays taxes supports the military with about 30 cents of their taxes. So, you've just got to decide, "Do I want to live in America and be a supportive citizen?" Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, you do the best you can in whatever situation God has placed you in. Sometimes, you're going to make decisions that maybe would go against what you want to do, but you see God's hand in leading you, maybe in a different line for your career; something where you can be more free to carry out what God has laid upon your heart, what you know to be true, versus putting yourself in awkward situations.

Pastor Doug: Yup. I know some good books that are out there. Terry Johnson wrote a book [entitled], "For His honor." He found himself in the military and did a great job witnessing for the Lord. And then Desmond Doss got the Congressional Medal of Honor in the Unlikeliest Hero Christian in the service. So there are some great testimonies. Hey, I hope that helps Phil, and appreciate your question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Richard, and he's calling from California. Richard, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Richard: Hi, and good afternoon to both you Pastors.

Pastor Doug: Hi Richard. Thanks for your patience.

Richard: Okay. My question is, a couple of Sabbaths ago a fellow believer and I were talking about the New Jerusalem. And the way I understand it, after the millennium, the New Jerusalem is going to come down; and then God is going to raise up the wicked. And then they're going to attack the New Jerusalem, and then God is going to destroy them. And then He's going to set the world on fire to cleanse it. And uh, am I right so far?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, sounds like you've got the big pieces in the right place. It tells us, for instance, in Revelation chapter 20, verse 5, "The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." So if all the dead in Christ rise when Jesus comes, then a thousand years later--that would be the end of the millennium--the rest of the dead, that's the wicked; that's the only thing left when you take out the righteous. You've just got wicked left. The rest of the dead do live at the end of the one thousand years. So go ahead, what was your question?

Richard: My question is, when God cleanses the earth on fire, where is the New Jerusalem going to be at that time?

Pastor Doug: Okay I understand. When the New Jerusalem comes down at the end of the 1,000 years, it settles here on the earth. The Bible says in Zechariah 14 the feet of the Messiah touch the Mount of Olives and it splits in two and forms a great valley. We understand that the New Jerusalem then settles down in this massive valley; talk about the Grand Canyon, it will be 300 miles wide, that Christ has prepared.

Then He raises the wicked. There is this great judgment. The wicked are cast into a lake of fire, and that same fire is purifying the planet. That's why it says there in Malachi, "You'll go forth." Go forth from what? From the New Jerusalem, "...and tread upon the wicked because they're ashes under the soles of your feet." So outside of the City, it's basically molten.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The verse you referred to again is Zechariah chapter 14, verse 4. It says, "And at that time, Christ shall set his feet on the Mount of Olives." I'm paraphrasing it, Zechariah 14:4. You know, Pastor Doug, God first cleansed the earth of sin with a flood of water, and He protected Noah and his family inside of the ark.

Pastor Doug: Good point.

Pastor Jëan Ross: So God cleanses the earth from sin with fire at the end, but God's people are protected inside the New Jerusalem.

Pastor Doug: It's like an ark. Good, good point. By the way, Richard, we do have a study guide dealing with the subject of the millennium. And we'll be happy to send that to you. I'm trying to remember the title right now, Pastor Ross.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Dealing with the subject of heaven?

Pastor Doug: The millennium.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh the millennium.

Pastor Doug: A Thousand Years of Peace.

Pastor Jëan Ross: A Thousand Years of Peace.

Pastor Doug: That's it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. The number, 1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide, A Thousand Years of Peace, and we'll be happy to send it out. Our next caller is Ann listening on WMCA from Connecticut. Ann, welcome to Bible Answers Live.

Ann: Thank you very much. I'm concerned with a passage, Mark 16:16. Some of us are taught that it isn't required that we have to be baptized in order to be saved. I kind of worry about that passage. It sounds as though we have to be. What do you think?

Pastor Doug: Well, I think that baptism is a priority in the Lord's teaching because, not only does Mark 16:16 say, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved;" you notice the rest of that verse says, "but he that believeth not shall be damned." He doesn't say, "He that believeth and is not baptized shall be damned."

"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." Now Jesus' last words should be a first priority for Christians. He said, "Go ye therefore, teach and baptize." And at Pentecost, immediately after the Holy Spirit is poured out and the church is born, people are baptized and added to the church.

So, when Christians say baptism is something optional, well if there is any teaching that is extremely clear, Christ said that the ceremony by which we gain entrance into His body is

faith and baptism. We're born of the Spirit, that's His Spirit, fire, and the water, that's baptism. So baptism is to the Christian what a wedding ceremony is to a marriage.

And so if a person says, "I want to be a Christian," or if they say, "I want to be married, but I don't want a wedding," well that really sounds odd, you see what I'm saying?

Ann: Yes I do. Alright. I think there are going to be a lot of people in a lot of different denominations that are going to have to rethink that.

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Ann: A lot of these denominations don't teach that.

Pastor Doug: They sort of teach that baptism as an optional ceremony.

Ann: That's right.

Pastor Doug: It's a sacred command of Christ.

Ann: Yes it is. There are an awful lot of people that don't follow that command.

Pastor Doug: They're confused. Yeah, and if you're ever in doubt about what a Christian should do, we want to do what Jesus did. Jesus was baptized, not for His sin, but as an example for us. And so, the Bible says He gave us an example that we should follow.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have a study guide dealing with the subject of baptism called, Purity and Power; and we'd like to get that to anyone who wants to know, well, what does the Bible say about the subject. 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the study guide, Purity and Power.

You know Pastor Doug, it's the most beautiful thing that a Christian can do is to be baptized, to commit your life to Christ, ask for forgiveness, repent, and then to go through the experience of being baptized, coming up out of the water, and realizing that your sins are washed away. Why wouldn't anyone want that--

Pastor Doug: Exactly.

Pastor Jëan Ross: when God says, "Do this, it's going to be a blessing to you."

Pastor Doug: Yeah. I've met some people that are just plain afraid of water, hydrophobia; but I can't think of any other good reason. I mean, it represents a new birth; it represents a cleansing; it represents a marriage. Ann, send for that free study guide, and we appreciate your question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Cindy is calling from Miami, Florida, listening on the Internet. Cindy, welcome to the program. Cindy, you there?

Pastor Doug: Cindy?

Pastor Jëan Ross: From Miami, Florida. Cindy?

Pastor Doug: Going once. Cindy, Bible Answers Live. Going twice.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, maybe we can come back to Cindy in a little bit. We're going to move on to Anthony who's listening on WMCA from New York. Anthony, welcome to the program.

Anthony: Yes, good evening.

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Anthony: Yes, I have a question concerning eternal damnation.

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Anthony: Um, the Scripture talks about, I see it through the New Testament um, you know, even in Revelation chapter 14, verse 11. It says, "The smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." And all throughout the Scriptures in the New Testament, I see where it talks about everlasting punishment, you know [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well, I agree completely with everlasting punishment.

Anthony: Excuse me?

Pastor Doug: Pastor Ross and I both believe in everlasting punishment. We believe the punishment is everlasting. There is NO second chance. There is no forgiveness for the lost. Once they die, their probation is closed; and their punishment, it is forever. And when it says--

Anthony: Do they continue to exist?

Pastor Doug: No. That's the thing. Jesus said you've got two choices, life or death. Jesus said you have everlasting life, or perish. You don't get everlasting life in the fire, or everlasting life in heaven. You get everlasting life or everlasting destruction. The destruction means you perish.

Anthony: Right, but is it an eternal, like, man has an immortal soul [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Ah, okay now wait. I want to park you on that for a second. Where in the Bible do you find that it says that man has an immortal soul?

Anthony: Well, when God breathed into Adam, Adam became a living soul; and we're made in God's image. So man is eternal.

Pastor Doug: Well now in the beginning, the devil said you'll be like God; and God said no you're not. So there's nowhere in the whole Bible where you find the word, "man has an immortal soul or an eternal soul."

Anthony: It says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It says they'll be suffering the vengeance of eternal fire [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Well there is going to be weeping and gnashing.

Anthony: Here it says day and night they're going to be tormented day and night, and they have no rest. If you're not existing, how could you have no rest day or night?

Pastor Doug: Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that there's justice, that God is going to take the creatures that He has made and He's going to put them in a torture chamber, and a billion years goes by and they've just begun to burn and writhe and shriek?

Anthony: But He's not doing that. He's given man a free will to accept eternal life or eternal separation or damnation.

Pastor Doug: How many people in the world have sinned?

Anthony: All of us.

Pastor Doug: So, why do we all tend to sin? Would you say we've got a--

Anthony: --Because we've got a sinful nature.

Pastor Doug: Alright. So here God has this race of people on this planet that all have a tendency to sin; and will the majority be saved, or lost?

Anthony: Lost.

Pastor Doug: And so, He's going to take the majority of creatures that He has created and He's going to torment them for eternity for doing what they're naturally inclined to do?

Anthony: Uh-huh.

Pastor Doug: The Bible teaches that the penalty for sin is death. The Bible says that the wicked will perish. The Bible says that they are burned up. It says they're consumed, they're destroyed. They do weep. There is gnashing of teeth. There is a lake of fire. We believe that.

Anthony: [cross talk] I believe it talks about the new heaven and the new earth, where people are going to come every new moon and every Sabbath to come and see the carcasses of those that He has slain [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Ah, now there's a carcass--

Anthony: where the worm doesn't die, the worm doesn't die.

Pastor Doug: A worm is what's eating the carcass. A worm isn't the person. In the valley of Gehenna, it was full of worms. The maggots used to eat the dead bodies. But they're not conscious and suffering. I mean, just think about that. Would you do that to your dog? Anthony, would you take your dog and put him in fire for 10 minutes?

Anthony: The whole thing is God is not doing it to people. People are doing it to people by free will, because we could all accept Christ. Every human being has a free will to accept Christ and eternal life. So what's the whole purpose of the cross and Jesus dying? There's no hell.

Pastor Doug: You know Anthony, I used to believe what you're saying now, and what a lot of people do believe. And I used to think God was a sadist, and it was hard for me to love Him. When I found out what the Bible really taught on this subject, boy it really made it easy for me to love God.

We do believe the wicked are punished. We do believe there's weeping and gnashing of teeth. Every man is rewarded according to his work. But if everybody burns forever, then everybody gets the same reward.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know what Pastor Doug, let me cross-reference that verse in Revelation chapter 14, where it talks about the smoke ascending for ever and ever. That is a quote from Isaiah chapter 34, verse 10; and it is a description of the destruction of the ancient city of Babylon.


Now let me read it. It says, "It shall not be quenched night or day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever and ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste." And then it says, "The cormorant and the owl and the raven will dwell there." So speaking about the destruction of Babylon, and it says, "it will be destroyed with fire and the smoke will rise up for ever and ever."

And then it says, "it will lie waste and it will become the home of the owl." So it's not talking about an eternal, ongoing fire that's burning.

Pastor Doug: Perfect--yeah, perfect analogy. So if you let the Bible interpret itself, here's an example in the Bible of Babylon being burned, where the smoke goes up forever and ever. It is not still going up today. It's an illustration. I used to drive across Texas and they had dumps every 10 miles, wherever there was a city, and they burned the dumps.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: You could see the smoke going up forever and ever. What that meant was, it went up out of sight. And so you'd see these columns of smoke going up out of sight forever and ever, as far as you could see. That doesn't mean they go up for ever and ever. They don't burn for ever and ever, because, I mean, who's going to enjoy heaven if you've got a symbol of people suffering outside the city as your entertainment forever and ever?

The Bible says there is no more pain, no more sorrow. Anthony, we didn't mean to cut you off, but we're going to try and get one more question in here. Please look at the website, helltruth.com. Please request the study guide, "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" We'll send it to you free. "Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?" Do we have time for one more Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright, let's try one quick call. Alexander is listening on the Internet from Arkansas. Alexander, welcome to the program.

Alexander: Thank you for having me. Good evening Pastor Ross and Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Alexander: My question is regarding to a prayer; and it goes--what does the Bible teach about the proper, physical position while praying in worship service?

Pastor Doug: Alright, good question, physical posture in prayer. You have examples in the Bible, of course, of many of the saints and patriarchs kneeling in prayer. The Bible says when Solomon began to dedicate the temple, he knelt before the people with his hands outstretched.

At the end of the dedication, he stood, and he pronounced what they call a benediction. So here you've got him kneeling; and then you've got him standing when he dismissed the people. Jesus knelt and prayed; the Bible says Paul knelt down; Daniel knelt down on his knees three times and prayed.

So in worship, I think it's appropriate. At the beginning of our worship service, we always kneel. We have a kneeling prayer. At the end for the benediction, we stand and we pronounce a blessing and dismiss the people.

Private prayer, I kneel every morning before the Lord. That's what Daniel did; and I trust that's what David did. It says three times a day. But I also pray when I'm driving. I don't stop and kneel when I do that. You need to pray when you're driving. So uh, yeah posture does make a difference, but, you know, Peter prayed when he was swimming. He was drowning. He said, "Lord, save me!"

So you can pray doing lots of things, but in formal worship, it's appropriate to kneel before the Lord. I hope that helps a little bit, Alexander. Did we cover it?

Alexander: Yes. Just a really quick thought. Does that mean that every prayer in worship service should be on our knees? I understand you said that the last prayer in the service where usually the ministers stand, but what makes the difference? How should we (unintelligible) whether we should now kneel, or we should now stand, or?

Pastor Doug: Alright, we're going to run out of time here. I would say that at the beginning of the worship service, we ought to kneel as we enter into the worship service. But you also don't want to get into a church where it's ritualistic, where you're kneeling and standing. I went

to churches like that where you're kneeling, standing, kneeling, standing; and then you go through a lot of body ritual.

And that's not what the Lord is after either. He wants us to especially humble our hearts before Him. Oh wow friends, this has been a fast ride. We trust you've received a blessing. Hey, we'd like to encourage you to stay plugged into Bible Answers Live. You can simply go to the Amazing Facts website. And a lot of the information we've shared during this broadcast is there. We hope that you'll utilize that, along with our other studies.

And keep in mind, you can also go to the new website, bibleprophecytruth.com. God bless friends, and stay close to Jesus. Until next week, we'll see you then.

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