Rachel Krishevsky

Date: 09/27/2009 
Rachel Krishevsky truly believed the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. When the 99-year old, great-grandmother passed away in Jerusalem in...
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Rachel Krishevsky truly believed the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. When the 99-year old, great-grandmother passed away in Jerusalem in September 2009, she left behind children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and yes, even great-great-grandchildren.

Rachel got married to her cousin, Yitzhak, in 1929 just before turning 19. The couple brought seven sons and four daughters into the world. Within the ultra-orthodox Jewish community, large families are seen as a blessing. Her eleven offspring evidently adopted her outlook, and they produced 150 children of their own. These 150 grandchildren continued the commitment to be fruitful and multiply and grew themselves to more than 1,000 children.

From here, Rachel's posterity continued to multiply further; and she was blessed with a few hundred great-great grandchildren. Due to their large numbers, the family is not precisely sure how many descendants there are. The grandchildren estimate there are at least 1,400 people, since almost all of Rachel's family were prolific.

Her grandchildren say Grandma was a God-fearing woman who knew the entire book of Psalms by heart and participated in all the family gatherings. Up until she was 97, she knew all of her descendants by name.

This makes it much easier to understand how 70 Hebrews could grow into a nation of over two million while living in Egypt for 200 years. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


PASTOR DOUG: Welcome listening friends. This is Bible Answers Live. If this is your first time tuning in, you've found your way to a live, international, interactive Bible study; and we'd like to invite you to join in. We like to think either by your design or God's providence, you're listening right now.

If you have a Bible question, we do have lines open. Pick up your phone and make a call. It's a toll-free number. 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That makes it easy if you're using the letters. If you want to use the numbers, it's 1-800-463-7297. And my name is Doug Batchelor.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends, Pastor Doug. Before we open the Bible, let's begin with prayer. Dear Father, we thank You again for this opportunity to study Your Word. We ask a blessing upon the program today. Be with those who are listening. We pray for wisdom here in the studio as we search Scripture for answers. For this we ask in Jesus' name, amen.


PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Well Pastor Doug, you opened the program this evening with a story about prolific family growth; and it's rather amazing in one generation, over 1,400 individuals in a family. It's just, I mean, hard to imagine.

PASTOR DOUG: Well you know, this helps to explain. People sometimes struggle and say, "Well how did the children of Israel grow from Jacob and his family with about 70 individuals, to roughly two million in the 200 years they were in Egypt?" You can read, for instance, in Exodus 1:7, "But the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and grew exceedingly mighty; and the land was filled with them."

Well, if Rachel Krishevsky in one 99-year period produced 1,400 descendants--and we're in modern times where people maybe don't have as big of families--but Jacob, he had 13 that we know of, the 12 boys and the one daughter Dinah. And many of his kids had very large families.

John Wesley came from a family of, was it 19? Susanna Wesley had an enormous family. Benjamin Franklin, same thing. I mean, they had some big families. So you think about it, Moses and his father and his brother and his sister, they all lived over a hundred years. So it's not hard at all to understand how you could have a nation of two million born--


PASTOR DOUG: --in those two centuries. But then you go to the New Testament, and some people say, "How could Christianity explode so that, just in the lifetime of the Apostles, it basically spread through the whole Roman empire and surpassed virtually every other religion in the world, as far as a major religion?"

Paul even says in Colossians 1:23, "If indeed you continue in the faith grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven; of which I, Paul, became a minister." Even Paul was looking around the Roman empire.

And little did the Romans know as they made those great roads, they were paving the way for Christianity to spread with their interstate. You know, Acts chapter 2, 3,000 baptized in one day. And then you go, is it Acts chapter 4? Five thousand are baptized; so the church continues to just exponentially grow.

So in the same way that ancient Israel grew, spiritual Israel--the church--grew and greatly exploded. We've got something special to offer people that might want to know more about how do you relate what happened with ancient Israel to the church today, or spiritual Israel. And what is the role of Israel? Is there going to be a revival among the people in Israel that will come to Christ? Who are the 144,000 that it speaks of? We've got a free offer that addresses that today.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: The book is entitled, Spiritual Israel, written by two Jews, Pastor Doug, as well as Steve Wohlberg. You both worked together on that book.


PASTOR JËAN ROSS: It's free, and we're offering it to anyone who would call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747. Just ask for the resource, Spiritual Israel. It's a book; and we'll be happy to send that out to you.

PASTOR DOUG: Okay, are we ready for phones, or do we have a--

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Let's go to the phone lines. Yes, our first caller this evening, Wesley is calling from Sebring, Florida, listening on Radio 74. Wesley, welcome to the program.

WESLEY: Hello Pastor Doug

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening

WESLEY: I have a quick question. The Bible says that we should um, well, the husband should love their wife; and uh, the wife should be submissive to their husband. Now what happens if the husband is not loving their life and is very manipulative and selfish; and how the congregation should respond to that? It is quite painful and what would you say, Pastor Doug, about this situation?

PASTOR DOUG: Well that is a very good question. When the Bible talks about the relationship of a husband and wife within the context of the Christian family, husbands are to be the servant leaders in the family. That's where you get the word, "house band." They're to band together the family to protect, to be spiritual leaders.

But what do you do in a situation where the husband is not a believer, or at least, not a consistent one? Is the wife obligated to submit to the wishes of the husband? Not if there's anything he's asking her to do that is in conflict with any Christian principle. The Lord is not expecting women to be slaves to a despotic husband.

I think that Christians, man or woman, should show love and respect for their spouses, even at times when they disagree with them. Sometimes you've got to know how to disagree without being disagreeable. And if Christians listening right now, husbands and wives listening right now, if they could conquer that delicate art of learning to disagree without being disagreeable, to respect a person, there would be a lot more harmony. So, now you're asking me specifically how should a church respond to this couple, or?

WESLEY: Yes. It is quite painful. It is quite obvious that the wife is very submissive and is willing to do everything to please the husband, but the husband is--they're both attending church, but the husband is almost fanatical; and is always complaining and always putting her down.

PASTOR DOUG: Well, it would be good if a brother in the church would go and take the husband aside and talk to him. It won't go very well if one of the wife's friends, if a girlfriend, talks to the husband. That probably will backfire. You know, there might be a couple in the church where they've developed a relationship with this couple; and if the wife would like to talk to the wife that is being verbally abused or manipulated, and if the husband would talk to the husband and say, "You know, you need to love your wife and not take advantage of her kindness and her cooperation. Pastor Ross, you have any thoughts on that?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You know, it's such a delicate situation, especially in this scenario that's being portrayed, because the church should do what it can to restore the health of the marriage; but yet, you want to do it in a way that's not going to cause further trauma perhaps to the person in the marriage that is suffering.

PASTOR DOUG: There's a limit to how intrusive a church can be in a family.


PASTOR DOUG: And you can do it through the counseling; you can do it through Bible study; through developing relationships and trying to model what a healthy relationship is--as long as there's no physical abuse where a person or children are in danger. And if there's anything like that, then they should obviously remove themselves from that situation.

We do have this study guide that deals with the subject of marriage, Wesley, we can send. You may have seen it already, Keys for a Happy Marriage. We'll be happy to send that to you.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: For anyone who is out there wondering how can they get the Biblical principles that's going to result in a stronger, happier marriage, this is a great resource Pastor Doug. I've gone through it several times and use it in counseling. It's called, Keys for a Happy Marriage. It's one of the Amazing Facts study guides. And it's free if you call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747. Our next caller is Hector, and he's listening online from Chicago. Hector, welcome to the program.

HECTOR: Hello, how are you?

PASTOR DOUG: Doing well. How can we help you tonight?

HECTOR: I was reading Ezra and trying to study it, and I was just...became very confused about this King Artaxerxes and his role that he played in the building of the temple. From my end, it just became confusing, because in chapter 4 it talks about Artaxerxes basically banned anyone from working on the temple and completing the temple in Jerusalem. Sorry, did I say this is from Ezra, correct? Right?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah Ezra. It's in Ezra chapter 7 and I think also chapter 4.

HECTOR: Chapter 4, verse 6; and chapter 7, Artaxerxes' name is in there basically. I'm just curious. This Artaxerxes is the same Artaxerxes, forgive me if I'm pronouncing it wrong. Is this the same Artaxerxes in chapter 4 and also in chapter 7; and when exactly was the temple completed?

PASTOR DOUG: Alright. Well you get two kings in Ezra chapter 4. It says, "...And the reign of Ahasuerus." There was an accusation made against the Jews for building the temple, and in the days of Artaxerxes also. And I think there was a temporary stay of construction that was issued by Artaxerxes. He's got an empire with 127 provinces. And so by the time you get to chapter 7, then there's a final decree that is given to complete the restoration of Jerusalem.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: When you look at the book of Ezra, there are these three decrees that involved the Jews going back and rebuilding Jerusalem and then the temple. The first is by Cyrus, Ezra 1, and that's around 537 B.C.; and then you have Darius with the second decree, Ezra chapter 6, around 520 B.C.; and then Artaxerxes with the decree in 457 B.C. So you have those three decrees, at least recorded, for us there in Ezra.

PASTOR DOUG: Now Hector, for our friends listening, they might wonder what difference does this make. I suspect you know that one of the most important prophecies in the Bible, a couple of important prophecies, used this final decree of Artaxerxes; 457 B.C. is a starting period for 490 years until the time was set aside for the Jewish nation to fulfill their mission.

And, matter of fact, it would be within that prophecy it talks about the Messiah being baptized and being cut off, and the final work among the Jews from the Apostles. So it's a very important prophecy. Now, we have a study guide. Is that the one, God Sets a Date for the Judgment?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: I think it is. I'm just looking at it right here. We've got uh--

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, so I don't know if you've seen that, but we have a study guide that specifically talks about this decree Hector. Have you seen that?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: I think it's, Right On Time, Pastor Doug. I think that's what it's called.

PASTOR DOUG: Right On Time, I'm sorry.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: It's dealing with the prophecy of Daniel 9. Hector, if you haven't received this yet, or seen it, I encourage you to call our resource line and ask for it. It's called, Right On Time; or anyone wondering about this time prophecy that you have in the book of Daniel, which begins with the decree of Artaxerxes.

Call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747, and you can ask for the study guide, Right On Time. We'll be happy to send that out. Mike is listening on KLRF from West Richland, Washington. Mike, welcome to the program.

MIKE: Thank you. Hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Jëan.


MIKE: Hey, I'm trying to understand in John chapter 3, verse 13 what Jesus meant when He says, "No one has ascended to heaven, but he who came down from heaven, that is the Son of man who is in heaven." Because if you look in the Old Testament, it talks about Enoch and Elijah going to heaven. So I'm kind of confused at what Jesus is trying to teach here.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, a lot of people look at this, and they immediately think how can Jesus say nobody has ascended to heaven, when clearly Elijah went in a fiery chariot; Enoch was not, for God took him. I don't think Christ is saying no human has been to heaven or seen heaven.

You know even Paul says, "I was caught up to the third heaven." He had a vision of it. I'm sure Moses had visions of heaven. But Jesus is really saying nobody has been in heaven that has come back down to earth to give this report, other than the Son of man. In other words, "I have come from heaven, from the Father to this world to communicate the character of the Father to this world."

Sometimes, this is a case where, when you go from one language to another, the structure of the sentence, and even one mindset of how a language is used, something was lost in translation.

MIKE: Yeah, I was wondering if that's what it was. I don't know. I just thought...I tried hard to understand that but--

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah Jesus is not trying to make a statement that no man has seen heaven.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Um-hmm. If you read the verse just prior to this in John chapter 3, Jesus is talking to Nicodemus. And He says, "If you do not understand earthly things, how will you understand heavenly things?" Then He goes on to say no one has gone up to heaven and then come down from heaven, in a sense, to explain, or to teach on these heavenly things, other than Christ.

And if you look at the example of Enoch and Elijah, they ascended to heaven; but they didn't come back to teach on heavenly things, or to explain heavenly things. Only Christ is the one who has come down to teach and explain of these heavenly things that He has seen.

PASTOR DOUG: You know probably--and that makes a lot of sense. To simplify it in our terms, if I could put a loose paraphrase on this verse, it would be that Jesus is saying, "No man has gone up to heaven to get a first-hand report, and come back down to tell people what's really going on." Jesus is the only one.

Now, Elijah went to heaven, but he didn't come back. Enoch went to heaven; he didn't come back. But Jesus, He had come from the Father to give us a report on heaven. And so He's, in other words, the best Testimony of the character of God.

MIKE: Okay. That makes a lot of sense.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright, very good. Hey appreciate that, Mike, and you have a good evening.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Lee is calling from North Carolina, Lee, welcome to the program.

LEE: Thank you very much. My question is, or rather, I'd like to know what Matthew 16:19--what does that mean?

PASTOR DOUG: Alright. We'll read that for you. Matthew chapter 16, verse 19. You got it there Pastor Ross?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Yes. "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

PASTOR DOUG: Now, these keys, God is not giving keys to the disciples to decide who is saved and lost. It is the key of truth that the Lord is talking about,--

LEE: Okay.

PASTOR DOUG: --because Jesus said you'll know the truth, and the truth will set you free. And then in Revelation, Jesus is identified as the one that has the keys, uh, go ahead Pastor Ross.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Just on that same point, in Luke chapter 11, verse 52, Jesus is talking to the Jewish leaders. And He says, "Woe unto you, lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge: you entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering you hinder." So there, Jesus refers to this key as being the key of knowledge that opens up heaven to those who believe.

PASTOR DOUG: So in the sense, the disciples were given the knowledge of the truth. People could find eternal life through those words if they share. Ultimately, Christ is the one who has the keys of everlasting life; and, by the way, you find that in Revelation 1:18. Jesus says, "I am he that lives, and was dead; but, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

LEE: What does the part mean where, you know, "whatever you bind on earth you've bound in heaven, or what you loose on earth you loosed in heaven"?

PASTOR DOUG: Well, just like with our previous caller, if I was to put a loose translation on that, what Jesus is saying is, "What we do here on earth will have eternal consequences." In sharing the Gospel with people here on earth, they can have eternal life in the world to come. In failing to do that, people can be deprived of it.

LEE: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: And the prayers that are prayed here on earth make a difference in heaven.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You know Pastor Doug, I'm just looking this up while you're talking, and I'm looking at the original Greek translation. And another way of translating that verse is, "whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

In other words, it's not as though what's happening on earth is determining whether or not someone is going to be bound necessarily, or loosed, but rather, the decision that heaven has reach is ratified here on earth by the church.

PASTOR DOUG: Right. It's in the tense that it has already happened.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: That's right.

PASTOR DOUG: Hope that helps a little bit, Lee.

LEE: Thank you very much.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright, God bless.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Donna is listening from Detroit, Michigan, listening on WMUZ. Donna, welcome to the program.

DONNA: Hi Pastors, how are you doing this evening?

PASTOR DOUG: Wonderful night!

DONNA: Oh that's wonderful. I'm trying to find out about the holy days. And I've been reading and trying to get an understanding. Is it just fasting, praying, and consecration? And if it is consecration, what type of consecration? Let me give you an example. The feast of unleavened bread, I've been reading you're suppose to remove all leavening out of your house, such as yeast, and so forth. Then I think the feast of trumpets is call Rosh Hashanah--


DONNA: --you know, Mark 5, the blowing of trumpets. In the New Testament, what do you do? Can you give me some information? Can you help me here?

PASTOR DOUG: Well I'll do my best. If you look in uh, is it 2nd Corinthians where Paul says, "Christ is our Passover which is sacrificed for us"? We don't need to keep the feast days the way the Jews kept the feast days because the feast days were all shadows with spiritual lessons for us.

In other words, when we think about the passover now, when Christ had the last supper with the disciples, He was eating a passover meal with them. But now, for the Christian, we don't need to kill a lamb anymore because Jesus is that Lamb. And He tells us that the grape juice is a symbol of His blood. It's to be unfermented grape juice, unleavened bread. They're symbols for the body and the blood of Jesus.

We do have a book actually that talks about feast days and Sabbaths that we can send a free copy to Donna.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You know, the verse you mentioned Pastor Doug is 1st Corinthians chapter 5, verse 7, where it says, "Christ is our Passover sacrificed for us." And the book that you're referring to is, Feast Days & Sabbaths.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, you know, there's one thing that often helps people, Donna, when they learn this; and I heard you mention the seventh-day Sabbath. There's a distinction in the law between the laws that were written in the Ten Commandments on stone by God's finger, and the Levitical laws that were written on paper by Moses.

The Ten Commandment laws are eternal in nature. That's why Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. He didn't say the Sabbath was made for Jews. Because in the garden of Eden on the seventh day, God rested, He blessed, He hallowed the Sabbath day for man. The only man back then was Adam and Eve, or mankind.

And so, that's the only feast day. It's a Sabbath day that's different. It's a weekly cycle; whereas the Jewish feasts were annual in nature, and they were shadows of things to come. So--

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: The book again, is, Feast Days & Sabbaths; and if you'll call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747, we'll be happy to send that to you. Again, it's called, Feast Days & Sabbaths; and they cover what significance the feast days would have as it points to the New Testament time to the Christian.

PASTOR DOUG: Right, for us today, what does it mean.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Our next caller is Joan, calling from WMCA from New York, New York. Joan, you're on the air.

JOAN: Oh yes, um, Pastor I have a question. I was reading NIV Hebrews 10:26-29, which says that if we deliberately keep on sinning, no sacrifices left for sin, but only a fearful expectation of judgment." And I just want to know does that mean that if a Christian who continues to sin can loose their salvation if they continue to sin after being saved?

PASTOR DOUG: Well let me read it for you also in the New King James. It's very similar to the NIV. "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation."

Now, the whole idea of sin is that Christ doesn't save us in our sin. The promise that the angel gave to Mary is, "you'll call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." [Emphasis added.] And Paul says in Romans, I believe it's chapter 6, Pastor Ross. "Sin shall no longer have dominion over you."

And so, if a Christian is willfully sinning, the thing that killed Jesus was sin. It's not talking about when we slip and fall, because John addresses that. He says, "If any man sins," notice the word "if"--it's not willful, "we have an Advocate with the Father." So we can confess and be

forgiven. But if we're deliberately and willfully continuing a life of known sin, yes we're at great risk of grieving away the Holy Spirit.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: That verse you're referring to is Romans chapter 6, verse 14. "Sin shall not have dominion over you." And then also, just to comment on that verse as well, the idea is not the occasional sin, but it's a continual--


PASTOR JËAN ROSS: --ongoing attitude of sin.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah. Does that make sense Joan?

JOAN: Yes. Thank you very much.

PASTOR DOUG: And we also have a book on that, "Can a Saved Man Choose to be Lost?" We'll be happy to send you a free copy of that. If you'd just call the resource number and request it.

JOAN: Okay, thank you very much.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: That number again is, 1-800-835-6747. And the book, "Can a Saved Man Choose to be Lost?" Well Pastor Doug, maybe we'll try and squeeze in one more call before the break here. Pamela is listening on KACF from Rochester, Washington. Pamela, welcome to the program.

PAMELA: Thank you very much.

PASTOR DOUG: Okay, Pamela, you might have a radio on in the background. Your question real quick?

PAMELA: My question is, when Cain was sent away after killing Abel, where did his wife come from? I had an unbeliever ask me this is a waiting room as proof that the Bible wasn't real, and I didn't have an answer for him. And I just sat down and looked at it in Genesis. Was she one of the original children? You always think there is Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel; and then they had more kids after Abel died. How do you answer that? I'm sorry I'm putting more words in there that I should.

PASTOR DOUG: Well let me give you a quick answer there. It tells you that Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 5, not only had Cain and Abel and Seth, but they had other sons and daughters. In the genealogy that is given,


PASTOR DOUG: it usually mentions the name of the firstborn, or sometimes the first couple of sons. You'll never hear the daughters' name because the Bible is written in a patriarchal

perspective. And it tells you that Adam and Eve had sons and daughters. Now in the beginning, there was nothing wrong when a man married his sister.

Man's genes were perfect, there was no risk of defect; and even Abraham married his half-sister. Sarah and Abraham have the same father.


PASTOR DOUG: And Jacob married his first-cousin; and Isaac married his first-cousin. So, in the early days, that was not uncommon. Adam and Eve technically were, I don't know what you'd call them. They both have the same Father, yet she came from his rib and became his wife. So uh, Eve was born from Adam--

PAMELA: Thank you. That clarifies it very well. Thank you very much.

PASTOR DOUG: So Cain took one of his sisters no doubt, and she became his wife. Adam and Eve lived 900 years, so that wouldn't have been a problem. We just talked about Rachel Krishevsky having 1,400 descendants in 99 years. Picture how many children Adam and Eve could have had.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: 900 years.

PASTOR DOUG: 930 years. Even if he was only virile for the first half of that; 400 years of having kids, man, just think about it! There could have been a billion in the world. Hey friends, we're going to take a break. We've got a few important announcements. We hope that you'll get a pencil handy, or a pen, going to give you some great websites in just a moment. Be right back.


PASTOR DOUG: Hello friends! We are guessing that some of you may have joined us along the way. If this is your first time listening in, this is Bible Answers Live, where we take Bible questions and do our best to give you Biblically-based answers. And in just a moment, we're going to go back to the phones. My name is Doug Batchelor.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: My name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, before we do go back to the phone lines, there's a new and exciting website that you were just telling me before the program is our #2 website, as far as people going there to get information.

PASTOR DOUG: Yes, it's Bible Prophecy Truth. Friends, I hope you write that down. I hope you click there right now and take a peek. It's very simple, bibleprophecytruth. If you do .com or .org, you'll find it. But we've taken just years of research; and just the very best information. Graphics, charts, information, video messages, audio messages, literature, lessons; and it's all one very state-of-the-art website.

You're going to like it when you go there and you see the carousel. There's kind of a kaleidoscope of Bible subjects it goes by. Let me read you to you just some of the headings that you'll see there: heaven, 666, Armageddon, death, anti-Christ, seven plagues, Babylon, tribulation, mark of the beast, new world order, left behind, just on and on; millennium, angels, it has just got an incredible encyclopedia of Bible information at this one website.

I hope you'll get it. I hope you'll create a link to it. If you have a church, many church websites have links. Please link it to bibleprophecytruth.com. It has great resources; and of course, the goal is not just to educate. It's to help people find Christ and eternal life. One more time, bibleprophecytruth.com.

If I might also mention to our friends who are listening, we don't often get as many calls from Canada, but we know a lot of people are listening up there on the Internet. I will look forward to seeing our friends this coming week. I'll be up in Calgary; and we're kind of having a city-wide meeting. I'm at the, I think they call it the Stampede Center.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Um-hmm, Stampede Park grounds.

PASTOR DOUG: Yes! And I look forward to seeing our friends up in Canada in the Calgary area this coming weekend.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: And that starts when, Pastor Doug? Friday evening?

PASTOR DOUG: Friday evening, all day Sabbath. And they're beginning a Prophecy Code series in the city at a number of different locations, but we're just going to go up and help kick them off--


PASTOR DOUG: --and they're going to follow up with the videos and DVDs.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Alright. Going back to the phone lines, Gardner is calling from New York, WMCA. Gardner, you're on the air with Pastor Doug.

GARDNER: Pastor Doug, during your extensive pastoral duties, have you ever run into any people who have an impossible time trying to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Some say when you give your life to Christ, immediately you have the Holy Spirit. Some people say that you must speak in tongues, uh, that's the evidence that you have it. And if you have run into some people who have a hard time, what was the outcome?

PASTOR DOUG: Alright, well first of all, let me go to your second statement. There is nothing in the Bible that says that you have to speak in tongues to prove that you've received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you read in Acts chapter 4, I believe it's verse 30 or 32 Pastor Ross, it says they prayed; the place where they were assembled was shaken; they were filled with the Holy Spirit; and they spoke the Word of God.

And so Jesus said in Acts chapter 1, "You'll wait in Jerusalem and you'll receive power on high. You'll receive the power of the Holy Spirit that you might be My witnesses." So the

reason God gives us the Holy Spirit is not principally to speak in tongues, it's to be His witnesses.

If you need the gift of tongues to communicate the Gospel, well then that may be a gift given. But Paul makes it very clear in 1st Corinthians chapter 12 and 1st Corinthians 14 that tongues is simply one of the many gifts of the Spirit. And Jesus never says you'll know them by their gifts. He said you'll know them by their fruits. So if a person speaks in tongues and they don't have love, joy, and peace, do they have the Holy Spirit? See what I'm saying Gardner?


PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, the main thing is you want to know do they have the fruits of the Spirit. That's love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness. The gifts of the Spirit are different.

GARDNER: Have you ever run into any people who've been in church and seem not to have the Holy Spirit for many years?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah--well first of all, the measure for the Spirit is does a person have God working in their life? Are they getting victory over sin? Do they feel convicted about sin? Have they received any peace about forgiveness? And if a person says, "You know, I just don't feel like I've had God's Spirit ever come into my life," the Spirit of God is Christ in us. I would say have you genuinely come to the Lord, taken Him at His word, repented of your sins, confessed your sins, and then believed His promise, "Your sins are forgiven"?

And when you really believe He has forgiven your sins and given you the gift of life, then He just comes into your heart and you sense His incredible peace that you have a new beginning. That, to me, is a great evidence of the Spirit. As God changes a person's heart, the old things are passed away, all things are new. You become a new creature. That's the Holy Spirit.

Now, the Holy Spirit came on Samson, he killed lions. And the Holy Spirit came on David, and he wrote songs. So the Holy Spirit will manifest Itself different ways. But the great evidence you've got the Spirit of Christ is that there's been a change in your life and you have this peace. Pastor Ross, any?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Yeah, you know, I'm just reflecting on what you said Pastor Doug. We walk by faith the Bible says, and not by sight, and when we confess our sins and we commit ourselves to God, God has promised to give us the Spirit. We need to accept that by faith.

And even though we might not feel, or we would assume the way we should feel, we should trust that God has given us His spirit; and in due time, the Holy Spirit will be manifested in our time of need to give us strength to resist temptation and give us words to speak to share the Gospel with somebody else.

PASTOR DOUG: So Gardner, does that help at all?

GARDNER: Uh, no not really.

PASTOR DOUG: I appreciate your honesty. Are you thinking of yourself, or someone else?

GARDNER: I'm speaking of myself. I was abused when I was a kid. I'm 52 years old. Um, you know, I come from a Baptist, Pentecostal...you know, if you're not swinging from the chandeliers in these churches, you don't have anything. But um, I have a lot of bondage, man, my whole life.

PASTOR DOUG: Well, let me give you something to think about. First of all, we have a book on the Holy Spirit we'll be happy to send you. And it simply tells you how you can receive the Holy Spirit. We'll be happy to send that to you if you ask.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Are you thinking of the book, "Man's Flicker or God's Flame?"?



PASTOR DOUG: And we've also got, Life in the Spirit.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Life in the Spirit, yes.

PASTOR DOUG: We've got two books on the Holy Spirit. And we'll send you a free copy of that; because you know, during the radio program, we've only got a couple of minutes to visit with each of our guests.

GARDNER: I appreciate it.

PASTOR DOUG: But I would also ask, if you were dead, would you be concerned anymore about what happened in the past?


PASTOR DOUG: Have you ever been to a funeral and seen the corpse complain about what's said at the funeral?


PASTOR DOUG: And so, the old Gardner needs to just say, "Look, I'm dead and gone. I'm going to be the new creature, and I'm not going to be burdened, by the grace of God, I'm casting my cares on the Lord. And I'm going to be a whole new person, a new creature." And then you don't have to be burdened by the past, the guilt that you may feel from the past, or the regrets of your mistakes, or what was done to you.

You know, you don't want to drive down the road looking in the rear-view mirror. You want to be a new creature in a new car and Jesus is at the wheel. And so it's a whole new experience, and everybody can have that.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Gardner, don't get discouraged with your experience, because I think Paul even felt that at the time or two. Philippians chapter 3 and verses 13 and 14, Paul says, "Forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark."

And uh, you know, there were things in Paul's life that he had done that he really regretted, including persecuting Christians. But leaving those things behind, forgetting those things behind, he's pressing toward the promise that's found in Christ.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright. Well hope that helps a little. Please do request the gift book we mentioned, which is, Life in the Spirit; or you could request, "Man's Flicker or God's Flame?"

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: The number, 1-800-835-6747. And two books, if you'd like to learn more about the Holy Spirit, Life in the Spirit, or "Man's Flicker or God's Flame?" Our next caller is Eve Rose listening on WMCA from Brooklyn, New York. Eve Rose, welcome to the program.

[Cross talk]

EVE ROSE: Thank you for taking my call.

PASTOR DOUG: And your question?

EVE ROSE: My question is about tithe.

PASTOR DOUG: Okay, about tithe.

EVE ROSE: I'm confused, you know, because I was talking to Pastor this afternoon. He says that you are suppose to pay tithe the same way in the Old Testament.

PASTOR DOUG: Well, tithe is a Biblical teaching that was not part of the law of Moses. Moses mentions it, but tithe actually goes back before Moses. And for our friends listening, "tithe is a word. The word "tithe" means "tenth."

The way that God operated in the Bible was that the priesthood and his ministers were supported by a tenth of people's increase. So if somebody's income--their increase--or where their work is $100.00 a week, $10.00 of that they would give, it's called a tithe, to the spreading of the Gospel. And this is reiterated by Moses, but Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek.

Abraham is long before Moses. Jacob gave a tithe; he promised a tithe to God. And then of course, Moses reiterates that. And even Jesus mentions tithe in, I think--is it Matthew 23:23?


PASTOR DOUG: So the principle of tithe, I would always say, "Why would God cancel that?" Now, for New Testament Christians, they actually went way beyond tithe. I just need to be perfectly honest. If you read in Acts chapter 2, it tells us that the disciples said that, "No man said that ought that he had was his own; but all men shared all things in common." And they sold their property, houses, and lands, and they took the money and laid it at the disciples' feet.

They were extremely sacrificial, when God poured out the Spirit in the beginning to spread the Gospel. And so tithe was, sort of like, kindergarten. Christians were giving much more than a tithe in the early days of the church.

But the tithe would be, I think, a basic starting point, if we've got faith that we want to spread the Gospel, one tenth. I wish the government would operate on a principle like the Lord did. The tax system would be so simple and so fair if there was a flat percentage for everybody--


PASTOR DOUG: --rich or poor. God's principle works; so we've seen it. Hope that helps a little book Eve.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: We do have a book--

EVE ROSE: Let me ask one more thing.


EVE ROSE: When I get my salary, I always take off the first part, you know?


EVE ROSE: But is it possible someone is sick to give it to, to, you know, for to buy medication [unintelligible]?

PASTOR DOUG: Well, were talking about two different things. One is tithe, and the other is an offering. There's a distinction in the Bible between tithes and offerings. Tithe was a set percentage that was to be committed to God and returned to the storehouse.

An offering could be given to the poor; it could be given to the priests; it could be given to just anybody. A lot of offerings were made to the Lord. And, there was no specific amount attached to the offering.

Paul says, "Let each man gives as he purposes in his heart. Let him do it cheerfully." There's not a specific percentage or amount connected with that. And so, somebody is struggling and you want to make a donation to help them with a project, or with medication, or something like that, well, I'd direct an offering to them, to do that.


PASTOR DOUG: And we do have a study guide that talks about this subject. We'll send you a free copy Eve Rose.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: The study guide is entitled, In God We Trust. The number is, 1-800-835-6747. That is our resource line; and give that number a call and ask for the study guide, In God We Trust. Moving on with our next caller. We're going to go to Augustus listening online from San Diego, California. Augustus, welcome to the program.


PASTOR DOUG: Hey thanks for waiting. Your question?

AUGUSTUS: My question is from Judges 11:35?

PASTOR DOUG: Okay, is this talking about Jephthah's daughter?


PASTOR DOUG: And your question? I suspect I know what it is, but let me hear you say it.

AUGUSTUS: Did God receive that sacrifice? It doesn't say, I mean--

PASTOR DOUG: Well here...let me tell our friends in case they don't know the story. There was a judge in Israel whose name was Jephthah, and you'll find this in Judges 11. He promised the Lord that if God gave him victory over the Ammonites, that whatever came out of the gates of his house when he returned home in peace, he would make a burnt offering to the Lord.

Well, back in those days, when people came home and they had small, domestic farms, your cows, or your goats, or your donkey would come out. If it was a donkey, they wouldn't have offered it because they're unclean; a human is unclean. But he decided if it was the donkey that came out, he would sell the donkey and dedicate that money to the Lord.

So he was going to make an offering of whatever came through the gates. The first thing that came out of the gates when he came home was his daughter. And he told his daughter, "You brought me very low because I've opened my mouth to the Lord and I can't go back right now." And she said, "Father, do what you've promised."

Now what this meant was, he was going to dedicate his daughter to the sanctuary. She would never get married, and she would spend the remainder of her days serving the Lord; the way Samuel did in the sanctuary; the way Anna did in the New Testament. No where in the Bible, there's nothing that tells us that any dedicated Jew would have made a burnt offering.

It simply says he did with her as he had vowed. Now, every firstborn child was to be consecrated to the Lord, Augustus, as a sacrifice; but they never killed their children. They consecrated them to the Lord and they would sacrifice an animal in its place. But the firstborn were all dedicated to the Lord.

And so, this being his only child, his daughter, he now had no more descendants. You can read in the Bible where Hannah, when she dedicated Samuel to the Lord, she came up yearly and brought him a little coat. And then when you read in the story of Jephthah, she says to her father, "Let me bewail my virginity on the mountains with my girlfriends." She's not bewailing her death. She's bewailing that she will never be married.

And then you read on, it says that the daughters in Israel went up four days every year to lament the daughter of Jephthah. They went to the temple to see her.


PASTOR DOUG: So most commentaries recognize that he did not make a burnt offering of his daughter. The language here...you've got to know what the culture was. He just made an offering of his daughter to God. She was consecrated at the temple the way Samuel was. She could never marry.

And you've got an example of that in the New Testament, one in the Old Testament. No. God does not accept human sacrifice. That's why He stopped Abraham before he did it.

AUGUSTUS: Oh, alright. Thank you.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright. Good question. A lot of people get hung up on that, and I'm glad you asked it.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You know Pastor Doug, while you were talking, I had a quick question for you. In the Bible, often the church represents God's people. And here, we have Jephthah dedicating his daughter to the service of God--


PASTOR JËAN ROSS: --ministering in the temple. Do you see any significance in that, as it relates to possibly the church, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah. Christ's church is consecrated to the service of God.


PASTOR DOUG: You've got a strange paradox in the New Testament. You've got this woman who is like a beautiful virgin. She's wearing a wedding gown, but she's pregnant. It's like Mary. And she brings for a man-child, Christ. And then she's persecuted. So Jephthah's daughter basically dedicates herself to the service of God. She's a type of the church, I would say. Good analogy.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Our next caller is Robert calling from Nashville, Tennessee listening online. Robert, welcome to the program.

ROBERT: Hello, can you hear me?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, loud and clear. And your question?

ROBERT: Alright, great. Well I have a friend who is getting married, but he's been divorced after an affair. And he doesn't have any Bible grounds to get remarried. I'm having quite a bit of pressure to attend his wedding, and I'm just letting you know, would it be wrong for me to support, you know, his marriage, by attending, or what are your thoughts on that?

PASTOR DOUG: Well, that's a good question. So is your friend...it's one thing if you've got somebody out there in the world. It's something else if this is a person who has been raised in the church. They know what the Bible teaches.

ROBERT: Yeah, yeah, that's the case with him. Yeah, raised in the church.

PASTOR DOUG: Well, you know, I want to be careful not to pretend I'm the Holy Spirit, but I would be uncomfortable giving support to something like that by my attendance. Sometimes, you want to maintain a relationship with your friends so that you can continue to minister to them, but I've actually got friends in the same situation where they ran off, had an affair, they left their spouse, and they found someone else to get married.

And I didn't go to their weddings, and they didn't expect me because they knew that I just couldn't be there and sanction it with my presence. So, at the same time, you want to be redemptive and try and reach and help people. It can be a really difficult situation. What compounds it is what if you're the parent? You want to support your children; but at the same time, you don't want to sanction or endorse something scandalous they're doing.

I don't know if you want to weigh in on this one Pastor Ross, or if it's kind of a hot potato you'd like to just leave?


PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Well, you know, every situation is probably a little bit different, but on one hand, I think you need to make it clear to your friend, if you haven't yet, that you disapprove; or you don't find Biblical grounds for him to really get married. But yet, on the other hand, as Pastor Doug says, there is value in trying to keep the channels of relationship there so that, who knows what will happen in the future? You might be able to minister to him as well.

ROBERT: Okay, sure.

PASTOR DOUG: And being in the audience could also be different than standing on a platform and being the Best Man or something. There are different levels of participation in a wedding. And I've been to some weddings where I've been there for the sacred service, and I excuse myself when they bring out the alcohol and the dancing. So, you know what I'm saying, so uh?

ROBERT: Well yeah, that makes perfect sense.

PASTOR DOUG: So, hey pray about it. This is something we're sharing by permission and not by commandment. You can take a look at the study guide we've got on marriage. But I don't know if it will specifically address this. And appreciate your question. Thanks Robert.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: That's the study guide we had offered a little earlier as well. It's, Keys to a Happy Marriage, and the number is 1-800-835-6747. Our next caller is Jody, listening on KRLF from Washington. Jody, welcome to the program.

JODY: Thank you for taking my call.

PASTOR DOUG: A privilege, and your question?

JODY: My question is, in Numbers 18, verse 19, and 2nd Chronicles 13, verse 5, it talks about a covenant of salt. And I'm just really having a hard time figuring out what that's all about.

PASTOR DOUG: Well, you know I studied into this one time. I'm trying to, right now, remember. I did a whole sermon on salt, but I'm getting old and forgetful. I know that salt was actually like money. You've probably heard the expression before, "They're not worth their salt"? The Roman army would pay their soldiers a salary, which is a Latin word for salt.


And salt was actually used as a medium of exchange. There was one time in history where salt was worth as much as gold. It was very precious. The animals need it. You've probably heard of salt licks for animals.

JODY: Sure

PASTOR DOUG: There was, I guess, a series of wars or something where there just was a salt shortage; and people were paying the weight of salt in gold. So, and also, salt has a preserving influence. When they would salt something, it meant that it would be preserved. The covenant in salt meant something that was going to last.

They would salt fish; they would salt beef. You've got two or three preserving agents in nature. Vinegar preserves things. That's why ketchup lasts forever; the salad dressing in the refrigerator. Sugar preserves things, it's like preserves. And salt preserves things. And so, a covenant in salt, I think it's talking about something that is lasting, it's preserved. Pastor Ross?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Yes. I'm thinking also the idea behind the covenant of salt is not so much the salt, but rather what it signifies, which would be an undissolvable covenant or a firm resolution or promise. Salt, incidentally, was also used in the sacrificial services in the temple. And so people would give their covenant of salt to the temple. It was actually used as part of the preserving part of the sacrificial services there.

PASTOR DOUG: Yup. They made offerings of oil, flour, and salt, as well as the sacrificial animals. Hope that helps a little bit Jody.

JODY: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

PASTOR DOUG: I appreciate your patience. Thanks.

JODY: Okay, bye bye.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Our next caller is Marshall listening on WMUZ from Dearborn, Michigan. Marshall, welcome to the program.

MARSHALL: Um yes. Hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross. How are you guys doing tonight?

PASTOR DOUG: Doing well Marshall, and your question?

MARSHALL: Okay, good. I'm doing fine, and lets get down to business. My question has to do with the Sunday being...It's...I believe Sunday is the mark of the beast, okay? But what I'm wondering about is how in heaven's name are you going to get people of all the religions, or people who don't have a religion at all, how in heaven's name are you going to get them to accept Sunday as a day of worship? I mean, I understand about the financial--hello?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, we're here.

MARSHALL: Oh. I understand about the, the, you know, being forced financially. And I understand...remember in one of your programs, Pastor Batchelor, you did say that every religion has some kind of savior, deliverer that they're waiting for. Still, it seems kind of mind-boggling how you would get somebody to accept Sunday as the day of worship, you know what I mean?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, you mean regarding a law. Well first of all, let me just give a little background to what Marshall is saying for our friends that are listening. There's a pattern you see in the Bible, just taking the book of Daniel for instance. In Daniel chapter 3, the government makes a law that requires everybody to break either the law of God, or keep the law of the king. They had to pray to an idol.

And Daniel chapter 6, the government makes a law that everybody needs to pray to the king. That's breaking the First Commandment. They had to choose: "Do we obey the Commandments of God, or the commandments of men?" And even Peter said, "Do we obey man or God?"

And in the last days, the mark of the beast issue revolves around who do you obey, man or God? When you think about a mark in the hand or in the forehead, you find that language used in Deuteronomy, where it talks about the law of God is written in your hand, between your eyes. In the last days, if we don't have the law of God in our heart, in our hand, between our eyes, meaning in our minds, then we'll have the mark of the beast.

Everybody is marked either with the seal of God or the mark of the beast. And among the laws, there's going to be this universal religion; they're going to compel people to worship. It tells you that whoever doesn't worship the way they are told, they can't buy or sell; and ultimately, there will be a death decree.

Now I know I'm talking fast, Marshall, because I've only got a couple of minutes left to finish this, but we've got a lesson that deals with the subject of the mark of the beast--

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: It's called The Mark of the Beast, yes.

PASTOR DOUG: --that we can send anybody that wants to know about this. Not only can they request the lesson, The Mark of the Beast, but hey, this is a good time to check out that website called, bibleprophecytruth.com. There's a lesson called, The U.S. in Prophecy. It's just rotating by my computer screen right now.

The U.S. in Prophecy, and there's a whole audio presentation, a video presentation, a lesson study, it goes into a lot more detail. One more time, that website is, bibleprophecytruth.com. And I don't know if we're going to have time for one more caller, Pastor Ross?


PASTOR DOUG: We've got 30 seconds? Well a minute and a half. Let's try one real quick. Let's see if we can break a record.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Alright. Let's see if we can get this one. Cindy is calling us from Miami. Cindy, what's your question?

PASTOR DOUG: We've got about 60 seconds Cindy.

CINDY: Hi, hello. Okay sure. I have a question in regards the genealogy of Jesus.


CINDY: I noticed that in Mark, I mean, Matthew, they mention how Solomon is the son of David; but then I noticed in Luke, it says that Mason is the son of David.

PASTOR DOUG: Naasson, yes. Well let me give you a quick answer on that one. Luke is tracing the genealogy of Jesus through Mary's father, Joseph's father-in-law. Matthew is tracing the genealogy of Jesus through Mary. And so you're looking at two different genealogies that are following. But they both actually trace back through David the King.

Well listening friends, we don't want to cut anyone off but we've got a limited time. We sure enjoyed this time together. Hey, the program can go on. Just go to amazingfacts.com. Contact us there; let us know if it's been a blessing. Until next week, remember, Jesus is the truth that will set you free.


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