Patty Hearst

Date: 08/22/2010 
On February 4, 1974, nineteen-year old Patricia Hearst was kidnapped from her Berkeley, California apartment by a violent urban guerrilla group called the Symbionese Liberation Army or the SLA.
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Hello friends, this is Doug Bachelor. How about an amazing fact?

On February 4, 1974, nineteen-year old Patricia Hearst was kidnapped from her Berkeley, California apartment by a violent urban guerrilla group called the Symbionese Liberation Army or the SLA.

Can you imagine her father's shock and heartache, when after two months in captivity, he paid six million dollars for her release and she decided to stay with her captors? In fact, she even assisted them in a bank robbery. Evidently, while being held, her kidnappers brainwashed her into thinking she was better off with them.

Can you imagine how our heavenly Father must feel when we neglect to accept the freedom and eternal life He has offering us, especially after sending His only Son, Jesus, as the ransom to die for our sins?

Stay with us, friends, we’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Welcome to Bible Answers Live, brought to you by Amazing Facts Ministries.

Are you looking for a clear, concise answer to your most challenging Bible questions? Maybe you’re struggling to understand difficult passages or scripture? If so, you’ve come to the right place. Join us now as we open God’s Word to discover His Will and find honest, practical answers to your Bible-related questions. This broadcast is prerecorded. If you have a Bible question, call us Sundays from 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM, Pacific Standard Time, at 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 1-800-463-7297.

Now, let’s join our host, author, speaker, and evangelist, Pastor Doug Bachelor.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Welcome, listening friends, to Bible Answers Live. And if you have ever wanted to pick up the phone and ask someone to explain the passage in the Bible—we don`t have all the answers, but we`ll do our best. Pick up your phone, call. Lines are open right now. Good chance you`ll get through if you dial that free phone number. That number again is

1-800—the acronym is 1-800-GOD-SAYS and that translates into 1-800-463-7297. Plenty of lines open. And so, with the—and welcome your phone calls for tonight`s broadcast. And we also have a number of resources we give away during the program. Keep a pencil handy. We`ll be giving you some websites so that you`ll learn about a lot of material. You can look at, study or even download for free—related to this broadcast. We also give away free literature that relates to the different questions that come in and so, keep a pencil handy. Once again, if you got a Bible question, pick up the phone, give us a call. It is a live program. It`s

1-800-GOD-SAYS—1-800-463-7297, and my name is Doug Bachelor.

Pastor Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening, Pastor Doug. And listening friends, let`s begin our program with prayer. Dear Father, we thank you once again that we have this opportunity to study YourWord. Father, we recognize that through Your Word—through the Bible—You communicate truthto us, and we ask for wisdom as we search the pages of Scripture. And be with those who are listening where ever they might be, in Jesus` name. Amen.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Amen.

Pastor Jean Ross: Well, Pastor Doug, you opened the program with an experience that happened sometime back. But it`s still probably something that folks know about and think about this girl who was kidnapped, but eventually chose to stay with the kidnappers versus “go back home” even after a ransom was paid for her.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: That’s right. Off course, the multimillionaire heiress, Patricia Hearst of the Hearst family, was kidnapped and her father followed orders to pay this enormous ransom—and some of it was in food that was given to people—six million dollars, and they agreed that they release her, but she decided to stay with her kidnappers. And that must have broken their hearts. Not only because of the money, off course, but how it must have hurt the parents that she preferred captivity, and they we’re living in, you know, just dingy homes compared to the mansion that her father prepared for her. And I can’t help think when I remember this story—and I remember when it happened—of what our heavenly Father must think when He’s prepared these mansions for us and He’s got all the resource of heaven for our happiness, and we turn away from God for the poverty of this world and the sins of the devil. And after He’s paid so much to set us free, giving the life of not “six million dollars,” but the life of His Son. You know, it tells us Hebrews chapter 2 verse 3, “How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him?” God also bear in witness both with signs and wonders, and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Lord did so much to show His love for us, and He says, “What more can I do?” How will we escape if we neglect that love and that ransom that He’s paid? And we have a free offer if people would like to know more about that great love and that great gift that God has given and that ransom that He has paid for our freedom.

Pastor Jean Ross: We have a book. It’s entitled “The High Cost Of The Cross.” And it reveals to us what Jesus has done for our salvation. If you’d like to receive this book—it’s free—just call our resource line—1-800-835-6747—and ask for the book “The High Cost Of The Cross,” “The High Cost Of The Cross.” We’ll be happy to send that out to you. Well, Pastor Doug, I think the phone lines—I know a number of them are lining up. We have just a few more lines still open. If you want to get your call in this evening, the number here in the studio is 1-800-463-7297. If you got a busy signal, just hold on, and those who working on the phones will get to you as soon as possible. Let’s go to our first caller. We have Osmond, who is calling from Atlanta, Georgia. Osmond, welcome to the program.

Osmond: Hey. How are you doing?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Good, and your question tonight?

Osmond: Yeah. My question is on 1 Corinthians chapter 11 verses 1 to 16, especially about, like, the covering for the woman. Is it a recommendation—is it an obligation for a woman to cover their hair or their hair has given to—has a covering?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. This passage in the Bible is talking about a woman covering her head. And it doesn’t say that it has to be covered all the time, but it’s talking principally about covering her head when she is praying or prophesying, understandably, in a public setting. And one rule for Bible interpretation is “do not allow one verse—don’t build a doctrine on one verse.” The Bible counsel is “scripture compares scripture as scripture.” There should be two or three witnesses we should build our doctrines on. This is the only passage that really addresses a woman covering her head. And so the question goes out, you know, “Is it talking…”—by the way, it says here in 1 Corinthians 11:13, “Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?” Well, it’s kind of like—you might say today—“Is it appropriate for news reporter to give the broadcast without a tie on?” Well, it is today—I mean it’s, you know, typically, you’ll see them wearing a tie—I guess that’s starting to go out of style. Style has changed. So was it a custom or was it a symbol in that culture of respect? You read down a little further and I think he uses that word, and talks about—he says, you know, “We have no other custom.” And so, it leads us to believe that it really was something that was a custom. But I always like to add a little caveat that, you know, if someone out there has a conviction that they—ladies that need to cover their head when they go into a church. I don’t know if Burton convinced you otherwise, and don’t want to be the Holy Spirit. By the way, when we go to church in some countries—like in Micronesia—we all take off our shoes at the door. And I’ve been there. Well now, if I take off my shoes and come to the church here, folks are going to think that’s disrespectful. But if I do it there, they consider it respectful. And so, some things were a custom. And as far as we know, this was principally a custom.

Pastor Jean Ross: You know, I think the verse you’re eluding to Pastor Doug is verse 16, where Paul says, “This is not something that is to become contentious within the church.” He says, “If any man seemed to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.” So, it’s not something for a church to argue about.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. I Hope that helps a little bit.

Pastor Jean Ross: I appreciate your call. Our next caller is Gene, and Genie is calling from New York, New York. Genie, welcome to the program.

Genie: Good evening. Thank you for taking my call.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Evening. I appreciate it. And your—

Genie: My call is about gambling—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Okay.

Genie:—and what the Bible says about it. I know of two scriptures in reference to gambling, but my question is—is it a sin to gamble? In don’t mean in Las Vegas, I mean like playing “Lotto.”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, let’s look at the principle. First of all, you’re not going to find the word “gambling” per se in the Bible.

Genie: I realized that.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: There is the example where they cast slots or gambled for the robe of Christ.

Genie: Yes.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And just the very idea that—in connection with the execution of our Savior—the ones who crucified Him then, gambled. That doesn’t leave a “good taste in your mouth.” Secondly, it does say in the Bible in Proverbs that, “He that haste to be rich…”—and I can’t remember the verse right now—“He that haste to be rich will not be innocent.” So trying to get rich quick whether it’s gambling is—you know, typically, gambling also is—people lose their money. That’s why the gambling institutions become so fabulously wealthy is they are counting on the majority of the people losing their wealth.

Genie: I didn’t play, you know.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And they let them win just occasionally so that they could, you know, get rich off it. And that’s why the states do a lottery. States don’t do lotteries to enrich the people. States do lotteries to enrich themselves.

Genie: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So whenever someone gambles, what they should gamble on and what they should bet on is they’re going to lose in the end.

Pastor Jean Ross: The verse you’re referring to is Proverbs chapter 28 verse 20, which says, “A faithful man shall abound with blessings, but he that make of haste to be rich shall not be innocent.”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So, and then, off course, there’s a principle that “those that would eat, should work.” And so the idea of getting rich quick or getting something for nothing by gambling or playing on the slot machine…”— you know, I just always say, “What would Jesus do?” and it’s just as really hard for me to picture Jesus at a crap table throwing the dice or pulling on a—

Genie: Or play in a New York lottery.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah or, you know, praying that He’ll win the lottery or pulling on a one-armed bandit. You know it doesn’t feel right for Christian, and I don’t think it matches with Christian principles.

Genie: Well thank you very much, and they were young.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: I appreciate your question. I’m sure there are others out there wondering.

Pastor Jean Ross: Thanks for your call. Our next caller is—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: God bless. Yeah, we don’t really have a book on that,—

Pastor Jean Ross: We don’t.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: —but we should.

Pastor Jean Ross: Our next caller is Lenny, and Lenny is calling form Michigan. Lenny, welcome to the program.

Lenny: Hello, guys. Thank you again for taking my call.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Sure.

Lenny: I was watching documentary and I saw—they were talking about stories from the Bible and they came with the flood account, and they had mentioned that there were two stories wrapped up in one. And I had also have heard the same thing about Genesis chapter 1 and 2 about—they say the creation and then they go back and repeat the creation again. So I had two separate texts that they use as contradictions, and I was hoping you could kind of clear that out for me.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright. Which are they?

Lenny: Genesis 7:2 and 7:15.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright. Genesis 7:2, “Of every clean beast thou shalt take into thee by sevens, male and his female. Of the beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.” And Genesis 7:15 you said?

Lenny: Yes.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: “And they went unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.” I think he’s saying that the animals went in pairs, and the vast majority of them did go in pairs. The question is—the clean animals, was it one? This is what the question is that I’ve heard—“Was it one bull and seven—or six cows, one ram and seven hues, one billy-goat and seven she-goats?” Because with the cattle, that’s typically how they breed, that it doesn’t take a pair. But, some have read this verse and said, “Well, it must have been a pair of sevens or fourteen cows and fourteen goats and fourteen sheep—the clean animals.

Lenny: So when they went in by sevens, they went in by seven pairs?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, that some have interpreted it that way, but I understand that it’s just—it’s generalizing here when it says, “They went in two by twos…,” because the vast majority runclean animals.

Lenny: Yes.

Pastor Jean Ross: Yeah if you look at verse 2, it almost gives the idea that it is referring to seven males and seven females, verse 2, “Of every clean beast, thou shall take in thee by sevens.” And then, “The male and its female…”—

Lenny: Then the male and its—

Pastor Jean Ross: And then it goes on to talk about the beast. So, it appears as though the seven males and seven females, they`re going as pairs. That`s the going two by two.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Celebrating couples.

Pastor Jean Ross: Correct.

Lenny: Awesome. Okay. Thank you. The last set of—the last pair of texts they had used were verses 17 and 24.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Chapter 7, still?

Lenny: Yes, still chapter 7 verses 17 and 24.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Chapter 7:17 says, “And the flood was forty days upon the earth and the waters increased and bear up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.” And what was the other verse?

Lenny: Verse 24.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Verse 24, “And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.” Well the actual rain is one phase of time it’s talking about and how long the waters completely covered the earth was another period of time. Is that what you understand?

Pastor Jean Bachelor: So it appears to have rained for forty days and then they floated for the time period that’s given over there in verse 25, which would be a hundred and fifty days.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Verse 24, yeah.

Pastor Jean Ross: Sorry—verse 24.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And actually—

Lenny: Good. It makes sense to me.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: —you add them all together and they still didn’t even leave the ark. It was nearly a year before they left the ark. Because even though the waters had receded and they felt it bumping on the hills, nothing had grown and it was just a big, old mud slough for months. So—

Lenny: Okay. Thank you.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright. Hey, I appreciate it. Good questions.

Lenny: Bye.

Pastor Jean Ross: Next caller is Brooke, and she is listening on the internet from Michigan. Brooke, welcome to the program.

Brooke: Hi.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Hi, and your question?

Brooke: I just have one quick question. It should be quick to answer—I think.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Okay.

Brooke: In Genesis 3:22, it talks about how—after Adam and Even had eaten from the “Tree of Knowledge” of good and evil, that God was saying they need to get out of the “garden” because if they eat from the “Tree of Life,” then they’re going to live forever. So, it’s kind of a two-part question. First, did they eat of the “Tree of Life” before—while they were in the “garden?” Is that where they ate from?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yes. The “Tree of Life” was in the midst of the “garden,” the Bible says.

Brooke: Okay. And then, does that mean then that after—if they were to eat from the “Tree of Life”—some people read that verse and say, “If they eat just one,then now was forever.” But my understanding was they had to continually eat from it in order to live forever. So I’m wondering what your take is on that?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well I think that one bite doesn’t give you eternal life. I think that God was barring their access because as they continued to eat from it—now you just think about it, Adam must have, maybe, eaten from it and Eve. He lived nine hundred and thirty years—I believe. Well that’s certainly above average.

Brooke: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So I think most of us would be happy for at least one bite at that “fruit.”

Brooke: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So I’m assuming that’s something that—when it says, “…lest to eat of it,” it was talking about being able to continue to eat from it.

Brooke: Okay. Is there anything in the Bible that says, like, how long one bite would last?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: No. But it does say in Revelation that the “Tree of Life” is in the New Jerusalem.

Brooke: Yes.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So the redeemed—even though the redeemed were given eternal life and glorified bodies, they’re still eating from that tree. There’s something in it.

Brooke: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Ultimately, Jesus died on the cross. He is the fruit of the “Tree of Life.”

Pastor Jean Ross: You know I think also eating of the “tree” was an act of faith on behalf of Adam and Eve, recognizing that God is the source of life. And by eating of that “tree,” it was an act of faith. So, you know, there was probably something special about the “fruit,” but it was also that act of faith. And I think there’s a spiritual application. We can’t just, you know, take one bite—if you like—of salvation and think that that’s going to suffice us, but we need to continually abide in Christ. We need to feast upon the “living bread” on a daily basis.

Brooke: Okay.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: One of the biggest industries in North America is what they call—it’s the vitamin, the food supplement, the get-healed-quick-over-the-counter industry—that billions of dollars. People think that, you know, “I can buy this herb and it’s going to lengthen my life.”

Brooke: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And I’ve heard there are some good things out there. But, ultimately, it’s the Lord that gives us eternal life and faith.

Brooke: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Thank you for your question, Brooke.

Brooke: Thank you.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: God bless.

Brooke: Bye.

Pastor Jean Ross: You know we got a study guide, Pastor Doug, dealing with the subject of health. And it’s not directly related to the “Tree of Life,” although I think it is mentioned in that study guide. It’s called “God’s Free Health Plan,” how we can live a happy, healthy, and long life even here on this earth.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah, Brooke, you may want a copy of that.

Pastor Jean Ross: For anybody wondering about that—yup—give us a call on our resource line. That’s 1-800-835-6747. That’s 1-800-835-6747. And if you have a Bible question, the number to call here in the studio is 1-800-463-7297. That’s 1-800-463-7297 or the acronym is GOD-SAYS. Our next caller is Robert, and Robert is calling us from Bloomfield, listening on WMCA. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Good evening, pastors.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Evening.

Robert: My question is concerning, “How God deals with people as far as punishment is concerned?” I was discussing with a son offriend not long ago and he said that God only punished people in the Old Testament and lasted—Jesus sacrificed on the cross. He took hispunishment out on Jesus. Some people sin or were disobeying. He doesn’t punish people since that time. I want to know what the New Testament says about it. Does He still punish nations and people if they do sin or apostate?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, I would say a resounding yes. Now let me give you a couple of examples. After Jesus ascended to heaven, even in the New Testament Church—there was a couple on Acts chapter 5 named Ananias and Sapphira. They lied to the Apostle Peter. They lied about an offering they said they were giving and misrepresented it,--

Robert: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor:—and they dropped dead. And it was obviously the—you know, a judgment from God.

Robert: Do they lie to the Holy Spirit?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. Paul—

Robert: Right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor:—with someone—then when Paul was preaching, the sorcerer was trying to obstruct Paul’s work, and Paul pronounced the curse and the guy went blind—at least temporarily. And then you’ve got in Revelation, the New Testament closes by pronouncing plagues upon anyone who takes away from the words of the prophecy. So the idea that God has changed and He no longer visits sin with punishment on an individual or a nation—you know the nation of Israel was destroyed in 70 A.D.—

Robert: Right

Pastor Doug Bachelor:—forty years a generation exactly after Jesus had foretold it, a terrible judgment came on Jerusalem and Israel. And so, you know, God—He does still judge nations. He judged Rome. I was just preaching yesterday about the seven trumpets in Revelation, and a lot of that talk about the judgments of God that came on the Roman Empire after all their persecution of Christians. So, you see it all throughout history.

Robert: Alright. Well thank you very much.

Pastor Jean Ross: You know in Matthew 24, we have—Jesus says—with reference to the destruction of Jerusalem because of their rejection of Him, His protection was withdrawn. In 70 A.D., the Romans came and destroyed the city. That was an act of judgment.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. I appreciate your question. Thank you, Robert.

Pastor Jean Ross: Our next caller is Frankie, and he is calling from Gainesville, Florida. Frankie, welcome to the program.

Frankie: Thank you.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: How can we help you tonight?

Frankie: Hello?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah, you’re on.

Frankie: Yes. Doug, my question is found in Luke chapter 3—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Okay.

Frankie: —verse 1 where it talks about Tiberius Caesar. I was told that Tiberius Caesar began his reign A.D. 12 and fifteen years after that was the baptism of Christ therefore, bringing His baptism A.D. 27. When you look this up, it says that Tiberius Caesar began his reign A.D. 14. That’s two years too many. So my question is, “How do you rectify this?"

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And when you look it up where?

Frankie: When you look it up in history books—you can look it up on the internet—it’ll say that his reign began in A.D. 14.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. I think you’re going to find, if you look in—one of the greatest authorities on Roman history is Edward Gibbon, who wrote the “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.” And I think the date he gives is A.D. 12. Now, keep in mind, some of these emperors of Rome, they were not always installed right when their predecessor died. And so—when it’s like when we elect the president, but he doesn’t get inaugurated until months after his election. And so, there could be some of that going on here in this discrepancy—I don’t know if Pastor Ross has a comment on that—what are you going to have to get—give me some time. You know, Frank, it’s—now, I’m going to look it up.

Frankie: Are you looking at the reigning of year or the discussed year?What are they looking at to come up with A.D. 12? Because the sources I’m checking is not saying A.D. 12.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Are you looking at Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire?” That’s the greatest history of that, but—

Pastor Jean Ross: If you put the baptism of Christ in A.D. 27—the beginning of Tiberius’ reign— that would need to be in his 15th year, which would be the autumn of A.D. 14. And then you’d be able to track through to that to 27 A.D. I don’t know where you would have to have A.D. 12.

Frankie: Okay. You know, what I was saying is that they were saying that Tiberius Caesar began his reign in A.D. 12. And then—I mean you read the text, it says, “Fifteen years later, there was an event that took place,” and that was the baptism of Christ as you go further down in that same chapter. So to say, you take the A.D. 12 plus the fifteen years later—which would be A.D. 27—which will bring you to A.D. 27, referring back to the prophecy of Daniel between the three hundred-day prophecy—or I should say the four hundred. And then, we got the four hundred and sixty nine weeks. 14 A.D. is [inaudible] years.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Have you—are you looking at our Bible study guide on that subject?

Frankie: I have seen it, but it didn’t talk about this.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, we do have one that does.

Frankie: It’s about?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: The two things that we’ll offer you—one is—we’ve got a study guide that talks about God setting the date—or actually, I think it’s called “Right On Time.” And the other thing is we have a website called “bibleprophecytruth.” And there are whole studies there, that we’ve got about the four-hundred-ninety-year prophecy, and, you know, the baptism of Jesus, the ministry time of Jesus, the crucifixion, the dates, the charts—they’re all at bibleprophecytruth. And also, we’ll send you a free copy—anyone who wants to study this. It’s called “Right On Time.” I hope that6 helps a little bit. We’re getting into kind of a deep study. You lose people when you talk about numbers on the radio too much.

Pastor Jean Ross: The number—let me talk about the number—if you like to receive those resources—1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide “Right On Time.” They’ll give you those prophecies in Daniel 9.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: When I did Math at school, I had to take out my fingers and toes and start counting. The people just were saying, “The numbers. I lost them. I had to look at it on paper.

Pastor Jean Ross: I think we have time for one more caller before we take our break. We have Gary, who is calling from Saint Louis. Gary, welcome to the program.

Gary: Yes. How are you?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Doing well. We appreciate your call. Your question?

Gary: My question is—I listen to a Christian radio a lot and I hear—I’m confused because I hear that the dead know nothing, and then I’ll hear “…to be absent from the bodies to be with the Lord.” So, which is it?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: It’s both. Now let me explain. If you’re saved and you die—

Gary: Yes.

Pastor Doug Bachelor:—your next conscious thought is the resurrection and being present with the Lord. Now, if you have a twin brother that’s alive—Jesus hasn’t come yet and you haven’t gone to be with the Lord yet because you are sleeping a dreamless sleep until the resurrection. Christ said when He rose Lazarus after being dead for four days, He said Lazarus is asleep. When He raised Lazarus, Lazarus didn’t say, “Hey, Lord, I was with you in heaven and now I’m with you here on earth or I was in hell or…” He never comments on what he saw when he was dead because he has no experience. So there’s no consciousness in death. You can read in Acts chapter 2, “King David dies and…”—

Gary: Are you saying the unbelievers are the dead ones?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: No. I’m saying everybody—

Gary: I don’t understand what you’re saying.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: I’m saying that the resurrection takes place when Jesus comes—“The dead in Christ rise…”—1 Thessalonians chapter 4?

Gary: I was asking about “…to be absent from the body when a person dies just to be with the Lord.”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yup.

Gary: And then I’ve heard that the dead know nothing.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright.

Gary: So, I don’t understand.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Let me explain. When you die, you don’t know anything until the resurrection. Meaning your next conscious thought is the presence of the Lord. So if I’m a Christian and I’m saved, and I should die, my next conscious thought is being raised. 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, “The Lord will descend from heaven...” 1 Corinthians 15, “They are raised at His coming…”

Gary: So Christians and non-believers, when they die—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: You’re asking two different questions here.

Gary: Christians and non-believers are dead though. They don’t know anything, right?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Right.

Gary: Until the resurrection.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. You’re either raised for the judgment—Jesus said, “The hour is coming when all that are in their graves shall come forth. They that have done good, the resurrection of life. They that have done evil, the resurrection of damnation.”

Gary: Oh, thank you for clearing that up.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: There are two separate distinct resurrections. Can you get on the internet at all, Gary?

Gary: Yeah.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright. There’s a website. It’s just,


Pastor Doug Bachelor: It got a lot of studies on that. It’s got a lot of scriptures there. And friends have heard us say before truth about death. It goes under both titles, but makes it simple—

Gary: Thank you, guys.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: A lot more there. You’ll find videos there and studies there. Hey, friends, that music in the background does not mean we’re abandoning you. Not yet, anyway. We’re just taking a break and we’re coming back. So if you got a Bible question, we still have lines open. Pick up the phone, give us a call. That number once again—1-800-GOD-SAYS. Are you ready?—1-800-463-7297—for your free phone call. And we’ve got a free gift for today. What’s the name of that again, Pastor Ross?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: The book is entitled “The High Cost Of The Cross,” and that’s our resource line—1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And also remember a lot more you can look at and listen to on the internet. It’s just We’ll be back after these announcements, just a moment.


Pastor Doug Bachelor: Welcome back, listening friends. And I imagined some have joined us along the way. This is Bible Answers Live. It is a live, international, interactive Bible study. And we invite you to join us. You can pray as we do our best to find the answers together in the Word. You can call in with your Bible questions, toll-free number—1-800-GOD-SAYS. That’s

1-800-463-7297, and you can just listen along as we study the Word together. And Pastor Ross and I have an important announcement—something we want to share with you—that’s coming up in just about a month. What’s the date? It’s gaining on us pretty quick.

Pastor Jean Ross: It is.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: We’re going to be—in October—broadcasting live from Michigan in front of two hundred and fifty teenagers, a special TV program called “MIQ.” “MIQ” stands for “Most Important Questions.” We’re going to be talking about “Is There A God? How Do You Know?”, “Is The Bible True? How Do You Know?”, “Were We Created? Did We Evolve? How Do You Know?”, and looking at the answers both in the Bible, common sense, evidence, science. And we’re going to be taking some tough questions in front of live teenagers. And I think you’ll find it entertaining as well. And so, if you want to find out more about the series—it’s not only going to air on 3ABN, it’ll be on the Inspiration Channel, and you’ll find out more about that by going to the website miqteens—it’s a special meeting for teenagers, from thirteen to seventeen—, And e-mail any teens you know. You might have kids or grandkids that want to know about that series. Ultimately, we’re going to build their faith in God. What else are we doing?

Pastor Jean Ross: Well you know, Pastor Doug, you’re speaking about this live satellite event. We’ve got our own Amazing Facts Television channel that folks are able to view.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: That’s right.

Pastor Jean Ross: And I believe we will also be broadcasting—maybe not live—but we’ll also be broadcasting “MIQ” program on the Amazing Facts channel.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: That’s right. It’s AFTV. As a matter of fact, you can not only watch AFTV on the satellite across North America, you can watch it on the internet any hour of the day. Just go to or amazingfactstv—either one will take you there. And they got evangelism, bible preaching, gospel programs—twenty four hours a day, seven days a week—on AFTV and it’ll carry the teen program as well, writing a whole new set of lessons for that series—studies—so the kids can follow long—I shouldn’t call them kids, I don’t like that, but I got two teenagers. I still call them my kids. Alright, enough rambling, what’s the next question?

Pastor Jean Ross: Alright. We got Tim, and he’s calling from Queens, New York. Tim, welcome to the program.

Tim: Hello. How are you doing?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Very well. How are you, Tim?

Tim: Okay. And what happens to the body? Where does it go? The spirit goes late—if John F. Kennedy died, where does his spirit go?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: When somebody dies, where does their spirit go?

Tim: Yes. Is anybody in the heaven right now or it’s only the Father and the Son?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well there are a lot of people in heaven. You got visions where you can see not only is the Father in heaven, and the Son in heaven, and the Holy Spirit, of course, and you got angels around the throne of God. God has got unfallen worlds that He’s made. And you can read about a number of people that were resurrected. Elijah went to heaven in a fiery chariot. Enoch was translated without dying. Moses was resurrected by the Lord. And then during the crucifixion of Jesus—or I should say the resurrection of Jesus.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And how about those people in the World Trade Center who died there? Are they in heaven now?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, first of all, when you’re talking about being in heaven, I’m assuming you’re talking about the saved people because not everybody is going to be saved.

Tim: Of course.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Just because, you know, a person dies in the tragedy—but the people who die, generally, sleep until the resurrection. The resurrection is still in the future.

Tim: And this is the last days now, right? Before—we have the last time before He returns. It is

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. We are living—I believe we are living in the last days based on Bible prophecy and the signs of the times and the headlines.

Tim: And in Pakistan—what is that? Is it the sign of the times?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Oh, absolutely. And for our friends that may not know what Tim’s talking about—these apocalyptic floods that they’re having in Pakistan where—I heard on the news, it’s like—

Tim: Yeah.

Pastor Doug Bachelor:—twenty million people that are, you know, cut off from transportation, clean water, food.

Tim: That’s a punishment from God, right?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, I think that the whole creation—according to the Apostle Paul—is grawning and travailing and you’re just seeing the whole planet. I mean, you can’t point to, you know, the earthquake in Chile or Haiti or in this, and say, “Everybody that suffered from these things is evil and being punished.” But the world at large—all of us—are at risk. One time, someone came to Jesus and said, “Have you heard about those eighteen men that died when the Tower of Siloam fell on them or the men who are killed by the soldiers of Pilate in the temple?” And Jesus said, “Do you think they were sinners above others in Jerusalem? I tell you, no. But except you repent, you’ll all likewise perish.” So when we see a judgment in the world or a plane goes down, for us to say, “Oh, they must have all been bad.” No, that’s not true. The Bible tells us that good and bad come to all people. Job was a good man. Look what happened to his family and his sufferings. Hope that helps a little bit, Tim. You had a lot of good questions.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Next caller is Michael, calling from Hawaii. Michael, welcome to the program. Michael, are you there?

Michael: Hello?

Pastor Jean Ross: Yes, you’re on the air.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Hi, Michael. Welcome.

Michael: Hi. How are you?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Good.

Michael: My question is, “Did Jesus die the second death?”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright. For our friends who are listening—and by the way, because Michael is calling from Hawaii where there’s no way to get around—a little delay in my questions or my answers and his questions—when you talk about the second death, it’s referring to Revelation chapter 20. It talks about the wicked dying the second death. And so the penalty for sin is not the death—that the saved die when they go to the grave and then they’re resurrected. That’s the first death. The second death—from which there is no resurrection—is the scary death because it’s the hopeless death. It’s the death that represents eternal separation from God. The terror that the wicked feel when they are judged and cast into the “lake of fire,” facing that eternal separation from God. Jesus did face that experience of separation from God. Did Jesus die the second time and never rise again? No, obviously not. But He experienced in His heart what the wicked will experience when they are facing their—anticipating eternal separation from God. Now keep in mind, what’s the worst part about going to the doctor to give blood? Is it when the needle pokes you or is it the hour before you get there?

Michael: Yeah.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: I know with my kids, if I say, “We got to go to the doctor and you’re going to get a shot,” they’re going to suffer ten times more in anticipation of the shot than the shot. And though the anticipation that the wicked have, of all they’ve lost—you know, that’s when Jesus talks about the weeping, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth—the anticipation they have before they ever hit the “lake of fire” and being separated from God is just horrific, when you think about it. Jesus experienced that for everybody. He experienced not only the penalty for sin—which is death—He experienced the suffering for our individual sins that we deserved and the death. So when you say, “Did He face the second death?” In that sense, yes. Did He face the second death that there—He never rose again? Well, obviously, not. Does that help?

Michael: Somewhat. But it seems like the second death is qualified by eternal death versus a temporary death. And that’s why when you try to connect Christ with that death and you separate it from being eternal, then it kind of takes away from it being the second death. It seems like that the second death is going to be experienced by those who reject the offer of salvation that Jesus has provided.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Correct.

Michael: I’m not so sure He died for the penalty of those who have rejected it. I don’t think there would have been a second death unless there was a first death. And obviously, there wouldn’t have been a first death unless there was a second death. The only reason there was a second death is because—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Now, let me—you’re asking if—I’m sorry, go ahead.

Michael: I say the only reason there’s a second death is because God has given us a second chance. But if He hadn't come in and intervened and given us that second chance in the “garden,” then there wouldn’t have been a second death but it’s just been death.

Pastor Jean Ross: You know, I think we kind of—

Michael: And it seems like that`s the death—Jesus died—it was just the death of sin, which was far beyond anything or anyone will ever experience.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Now, there`s—at the foundation of what you`re saying, I think there`s a—in my opinion—misunderstanding. It sounds like you`re saying that Jesus did not die for those who will not be saved.

Michael: Well, He died for the whole world in terms of reconciling the world to the Father. But in terms of experiencing the second death--as far as I understand the second death—is the experience of those who rejected His substitutionary atonement, which was “to take my place.” And if were to draw a timeline out, I’d ask the question, “When did He take my place?” It was in the “garden.”

Pastor Jean Ross: I think we can understand that Michael is being—Christ suffered the pain—you might say—of the second death, but not the duration of the second death.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well put.

Pastor Jean Ross: So He suffered this—experienced the suffering of the second death, but not the duration.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And I think Jesus died and suffered for those who even will not take advantage of it. That’s the heartache of God. That’s one reason people face the wrath of the Lamb—is He gave so much to save them and they sprung it. As a matter of fact, in Hebrews chapter 10, it talks about those—you read verse 26, “If we sin wilfully after we’ve received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a certain fearful-looking forward to a judgment, and fiery indignation that will devour the adversaries.” Those that rejected the covenant under Moses were punished. You might want to read that. That’s—

Pastor Jean Ross: Yeah. That’s Hebrews chapter 10 verse 26.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Read verse 27.

Pastor Jean Ross: Let make take a look at verse 27 as well. Verse 26, “For if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin, but a certain fearful-looking for a judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Next verse.

Pastor Jean Ross: “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses.” So how much sore punishment supposed he shall be thought worthy, who has trodden underfoot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing.”

Pastor Jean Ross: Alright. That’s a slam dunk as far as I’m concerned. It’s talking to the lost, whom Christ gave His blood that they might be sanctified, but they counted as an unholy thing. To me, that is really clear. That even to those who are unsanctified, He gave His blood. And so—anyway, I hope that helps a little bit, Michael, and we appreciate your questions.

Pastor Jean Ross: You know, our free offer this evening, Michael, you’d find interesting—“The High Cost Of The Cross.” I think it deals with the very question of, “What about the second death?”—“How did Jesus experience that?” You might find it interesting.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well there’s probably in that book. Yeah.

Pastor Jean Ross: It is—1-800-835-6747, 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the book “The High Cost Of The Cross.” Let’s see—our next caller is Joe, and Joe is calling from Bronx, New York. Joe, welcome to the program.

Joe: Hi. How are you doing? God bless you.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Doing well, and your question?

Joe: Hello?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah, you’re on.

Joe: Okay. I just want to know, “How is Jesus coming the second time?” because I—sometimes, when I read it, I don’t understand it pretty good because it tells me that He’s coming and we’re going to have “meeting in the sky.” But then, the thing you say the second time He’s coming. So I don’t understand.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, Jesus says in Matthew 24, “Then He’ll send His angels with the sound of a trumpet and gather together His elect from the four corners of the earth, from one end of heaven to the other.” And we are caught up—you read in 1 Thessalonians 4—to meet Him in the air. Sometimes people call this the “rapture,” but we don’t believe—on this program—in the secret rapture. We think that when He does come to catch up the saints, everybody knows about it because it says, “Every eye will see Him that He’s coming like a lion that the mountains are going to shake there’s going to be a resurrection.” It’ll just be hard to hide that, like lighting shining from one end of the sky to the other. Now, Joe, we’ve got a study guide that talks not only about, “How Jesus is coming?”, but signs of His coming and it goes into great detail. Would you like a free copy of that?

Joe: Yes.

Pastor Jean Bachelor: Call our resource line—1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: “The Ultimate Deliverance.”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: And ask for the study guide “The Ultimate Deliverance.” I believe also, Pastor Doug, online. If you go to the prophecytruth website and click on the link—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: That’s right.

Pastor Jean Ross: —“textbooks.” It talks about the second coming. It’s a tremendous amount of resources there.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: We got a whole video sermon you can watch there on the Lord’s return—how it’s going to happen? It’s important for us to understand not only Jesus’ coming, but Christians need to know something about how He’s coming. Because when Jesus came the first time, His own people that had the Bible—the Jewish people—misunderstood how the Messiah was coming. And as a nation, they weren’t ready to receive Him. Well the church is making the same mistake in “the last days.” They don’t understand how He’s coming, and the devils are going to try and impersonate Christ and deceive people. So it’s a good question.

Pastor Jean Ross: Dominique is listening on WMCA from Lodi, New Jersey. Dominique, welcome to the program. Dominique, are you there?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Dominique—going once. Is it Lodi, New Jersey? Dominique—going twice.

Pastor Jean Ross: Alright. We’ll maybe we’ll get back to you there, Dominique. We’re going to go to—let’s see—Patrick, who is calling from –

Patrick: Yes, sir.

Pastor Jean Ross:—Springfield. Welcome to the program, Patrick.

Patrick: Good evening, pastors.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Evening. And you’re on. Your question?

Patrick: Yes. My question comes from 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 verse 16, and it talks about the voice of the archangel, and it talks about trump of God. So I want to understand how the Scripture works for the future approach of Jesus Christ’s return.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, when you talk about the voice of the archangel—or you’re wanting to know what’s the difference between that and the trump of God?

Patrick: Yeah—the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. So there are two things going on right there.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, for one thing before I forget—I’ll do my best to answer your question—we do have a book that we’ll send you if you simply ask. It’s called “Who Is Michael The Archangel?”

Patrick: Yes sir.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So just ask for the study on Michael the archangel. We’ll send that to you. But very quickly, the word “angel” in the Bible means “messenger.” “Archangel” means greatest or highest. You probably heard of a Roman arch. It’s talking about the highest spot, and the key stone was the arch stone. It means the highest stone that holds everything together. One of the names that was often used for Christ in the Old Testament prior to His coming to earth, He’s called “Michael.” The word “Michael” means “who is as God”—archangel. Now this is, actually, a very old Protestant teaching you’ll find in the commentaries that Michael is not called—He’s never called an “angel” in the Bible. He’s called an “archangel.” You find him involved in the resurrection in the Book of Jude. You find him—

Patrick: But in Jude—okay. Go ahead, sir.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: You find in Revelation 12 where it talks about, “There’s a war and the dragon fights with Michael.” Well who is the dragon? That’s a symbolic name for somebody we all know—the devil. It later tells us that in the same chapter. So if the word “dragon” is a symbolic name for the leader of evil, it’s reasonable to say “Michael” may also be a symbolic name for the leader of good. And so, you’ll find that even in Daniel chapter 12 when Michael stands up, it’s like judgment is over and the great time of trouble begins.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: You know, when Michael stands up in Daniel 12 that refers to him as, “The great prince who stands for the children of thy people.” So Michael is referred to as, “The prince who stands for God’s people”—that will be Christ.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah. He’s not a feathery angel. So that’s what some people confuse. They think that we’re saying, “Jesus is an angel.” We don’t believe that.

Patrick: Are you referring Jesus Christ as an archangel?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Jesus is not an angel.

Patrick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: The word “archangel” is talking about greatest messenger. There’s only one person who receives that. And it’s not talking about a cherub or a seraphim, but it’s one of the pre-incarnation names that was used in the Old Testament, principally, couple times in the New Testament for Christ. You know, you just do the detective work. First of all, it says, “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with the voice—the Lord with the voice of the archangel—that means “greatest messenger.” And so—you can even find it there in 1 Thessalonians. I hope that helps. And of course, the trumpet is a trumpet. Now, we’ve got a book. It’s got a trumpet on the cover. It talks about the coming of the Lord. It’s called “Anything But Secret.” We’ll send you that book if you ask, Patrick—“Anything But Secret.”

Pastor Jean Ross: We`ve got two books—1-800-835-6747—“Anything But Secret,” talking about the second coming. And then also, Pastor Doug, you mentioned the book “Who Is Michael The Archangel?”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: “Who Is Michael The Archangel.” Yes.

Pastor Jean Ross: It deals with that very question. Let’s see—our next caller is George. George is calling from Hawaii. George, welcome to the program.

George: Hey. How’s it?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Doing good. How are you doing?

George: Alright, alright. Yeah. I heard a pretty lot of interesting questions asked. I guess mine is just referring to the call you folks had earlier that was talking about how—when we die, we sleep.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yes.

George: And until the resurrection, we won’t be with Jesus until then.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, so if you die—

George: Now my question is—

Pastor Doug Bachelor: If you die in Christ, your next thought is being present with Jesus, but you may not—it may not happen for our time in our world.

George: Right. So I mean—so there would be—there’s going to be a “blank” time.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah, but you won’t know it if you’re saved. But anyway, go ahead.

George: So you won’t know if—so it would be like a twinkling of an eye.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Exactly. Bible says King David died three thousand years ago. By that time, Peter preached at Pentecost. He said, “David is dead and buried, and not ascended to heavens.” That’s pretty clear, but David doesn’t know that.

George: Okay. Now my question is in regards to the rich man, and Lazarus, and the man on the cross.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Yeah.

George: The man on the cross—Jesus told him that, “You’d be in paradise with Me today.”

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright, two questions. Let’s start here with the one you mentioned which is in Luke also, and I think that’s Luke 23—or is that Luke 24? I forget—“Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.” George, quick answer for that is—Jesus could not be in paradise with that man, that day. It’s the punctuation—“Verily I say to you today,..”—and there’s no punctuation in the original. Some translators have put the comma after the word “today”—or rather—before the word “today” and it reads, “Verily I say unto you, today you’ll be with me in paradise.” The problem with that is—you go to John 21, “And when Mary went to worship Him after He’s risen, He says, ‘I have not yet ascended to my Father.’” So how the thief could be with Him in paradise—Friday afternoon—when Jesus hadn’t gotten there yet.

George: Okay.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: What Christ is saying is, “I am telling you today, you’re going to be with me in paradise. Even though, today, I don’t look like a Lord and I don’t look like a king because you said, ‘Lord, remember me in your kingdom,’— and you’ve had faith—I’ll promise you today, you will be with me in paradise.” So, that’s an easy one—I think—to explain. The other one is the parable in Luke 16:19 where Jesus talks about the rich man and Lazarus. This is obviously an allegory. So we’ve got to be careful about using this story for literal. You know, Jesus tells stories about us being like sheep. But, you know, we don’t shear one another. That’s an illustration. And here He talks about, you know, people in heaven and hell looking at each other and talking to each other, and wanting a drop of water. And when you die, everyone’s going to Abraham’s Bosom. And other than this verse, nothing in the Bible says that when people die, they go to this, you know, enormous Bosom of Abraham. Because if you’ve got a billion people that go to his Bosom—well, that’s pretty impressive. You see what I mean? So it’s obviously lots of allegories in this parable. So to use this to say, “This is the model of what happens when you die, that people in heaven and hell will be able to talk to each other,” Jesus actually draws on an illustration from Greek mythology. The Greeks had a place called “Hades” that was ruled by a god named “Pluto”—and everybody in Jerusalem knew Greek mythology because they had been conquered by the Greeks. They spoke Greek. Greek was above the head of Jesus when He was crucified—and using this analogy of Hades they’re familiar with, He says, “This is rich man who feasts, he dies, he goes to torment this poor beggar who wanted the crumbs, he goes to Abraham’s Bosom” And what Christ is illustrating, really, is nothing to do with the state of man in death. He’s illustrating that Christians, like the Jews of Old Testament—if we think because we know the truth and we don’t love our neighbor, that we’re going to be saved because we’re children of Abraham, we may be surprised that there’d be a great reversal of fortune in the judgment. And that’s the real message in this parable. The message in the parable is the last words where He said, “Believe not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded the one should rise from the dead.” Well He’s talking about His own nation. Jesus rose from the dead and they still do not believe.

Pastor Jean Ross: And of course, Jesus did resurrect somebody whose name was “Lazarus” and still the Jewish leaders did not believe.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: They wanted to kill Lazarus.

Pastor Jean Ross: That’s right.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: So, I hope that helps a little. By the way, George, we’ve got a book called “The Rich Man And Lazarus.” We’ll send you a free copy.

Pastor Jean Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the book “The Rich Man And Lazarus.” You can also go to the website “deathtruth,” and I believe that passage is also addressed. Let’s see if we can go to Richard, who is calling from Modesto. Richard, welcome to the program. Richard, are you there?

Richard: Good evening, pastors.

Pastor Jean Ross: Yes. Welcome.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Evening.

Richard: We really enjoy the program, good questions. My question is found in Daniel chapter 2 verses 44 and 45, when Daniel mentions to Nebuchadnezzar that, “In the reign of these kings…”—speaking to the image and then the loft that’s cut off—Ai says, “God’s going to allocate His kingdom and it’s never going to be conquered.” When does that happen? Does that happen at the second coming or somewhere else?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, there are two parts to Christ’s—

Richard: You know, inaudible

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Okay. Thank you. There are two parts to Christ’s answer, “In the days of these kings—he says—He’ll set up a kingdom that’ll never be destroyed and that kingdom will not be left to other people.” Well Jesus came His first time, He set up—during the time of iron, He set up His spiritual kingdom. He said, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” So there’s no question that He had a spiritual kingdom available. But the literal kingdom—and Christ made it clear that there was another kind of kingdom—the reality of His kingdom—where there is no more wicked in the world and the meek inherit the earth. That kingdom that will never be contested is set up at the second coming, where the wicked are all separated from the righteous. And He says, “Well done, good and faithful servant, enter into your reward.” And that’s when we get that physical kingdom. So, that happens, of course, at the coming of Christ. You can read many parables where Jesus says, “The kingdom of heaven is like a man that goes away to receive a kingdom and then he comes back.” And so when Christ returns, He’s received that deed to that kingdom that He gives us. I appreciate your question, Richard—and I’m trying to think—at prophecy—bibleprophecytruth, bibleprophecytruth. By the way friends, I hope you all link to that website. Since we mentioned that last time, I think it went from 4th place to 3rd place on Google—bibleprophecytruth—there is a study on Daniel, too, there. It’s called “The Millenium Of Prophecy” or “The Millenial Man.”

Pastor Jean Ross: Our next caller is Kendrick, calling from Brooklyn, New York. Kendrick, welcome to the program.

Kendrick: Yes. Hi. Good evening, pastors. My question is—well first, I have three texts that I just wanted to give you—two are found in Romans chapter 5 verses 8 and 18, and then the next text is taken in from 2 Corinthians chapter 5 verse 19.

Pastor Jean Ross: You know, Kendrick, we’re down to two minutes. We hate to run out of time.

Kendrick: Oh, okay.

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Can you summarize it real quick?

Kendrick: Yeah. When is the process of justification—a person is justified—from the death of Christ on the cross or when a person believes in Christ?

Pastor Doug Bachelor: Well, a person doesn’t receive justification until they apply His sacrifice to themselves. The children of Israel would sacrifice a lamb, but that sacrifice did them no good till they took the blood and applied it to the door—when they applied it to the lentils—then the angel of judgment went by, they were forgiven—same thing with us. Christ has died for the sins of the world, but we must take the blood and apply it by faith, then we receive forgiveness and justification. His Holy Spirit gives us power for sanctification, and Jesus is going to come pretty soon and we’ll know what it means to experience glorification. Listening friends, if we did not get your question tonight—we started slow, but ended with a “bang.” Sorry about those who are still waiting. Please give us a chance next week. And don’t forget to check out—tons of resources there. By the way, we’d love to hear from you. Drop us a line where it says “Contact Us.” God bless, friends, until next week.


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