Sacrificial Love

Date: 05/09/2004 
After a forest fire in Yellowstone Park, a National Geographic Photographer joined some forest rangers on their trek up the mountain to assess the inferno’s damage. As they hiked through the burnt forest a photographer found a scorched bird literally petrified in the ashes, almost like a statue on the base of the ground of a tree.
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Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? After a forest fire in Yellowstone Park, a National Geographic Photographer joined some forest rangers on their trek up the mountain to assess the inferno’s damage. As they hiked through the burnt forest a photographer found a scorched bird literally petrified in the ashes, almost like a statue on the base of the ground of a tree. Somewhat curious about the eerie sight he took a gentle strike at the bird with his boot. When he did three tiny chicks scurried out from under the dead mother’s wings.

The loving mother keenly aware of the coming disaster had led her offspring to the base of the tree and had gathered them under her wings instinctively knowing that the toxic smoke would rise. She could have flown to safety but refused to abandon her babies. When the heat had arrived and the blaze had scorched her small body, the mother had remained steadfast. Because she had been willing to die, those under the cover of her wings would live. The Bible teaches us He will cover you with His feathers and under His wings you will find refuge. Psalms 91: 4 sometimes our Father in heaven uses ht symbol of a mother’s love to portray His love. Stay with us friends as “Amazing Facts” brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live”.


Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends to another edition of “Bible Answers Live” a live, international, interactive Bible study. You can participate by calling in or listening and praying for us as we open the Bible to God’s truth. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Debit. And as we normally do every other week we start with a word of prayer. So let’s do that Heavenly Father again we come to you with thanksgiving in our hearts with joy and hope and anticipation and excitation at what you will do tonight Lord. May all that is said and done bring you honor and glory. In worship and praise and if there is someone tonight Lord that needs to hear from you then I pray Lord that your Holy Spirit will be able to touch them and reach them clearly with the good news of Jesus Christ. Thank you and we praise you for the privilege of participating with you in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Dick: Well Pastor Doug it is – this is – it is one of my favorite days of the whole year you know. A mother’s love you know. I just remember my mother telling me shortly before she did you know that she prayed for me every day of my life. And I didn’t have a clue. Not a clue.

Pastor Doug: Wow. Well you know the Bible tells us that when God is looking for an image and a symbol to help us better comprehend His love He often turns to the sacrificial love of a mother. Jesus appealed to this when He wept over Jerusalem. And He said oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem; you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you. How often I wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. And of course that ties back to our story and they found this bird and I have seen this before. I remember walking down the mountain trails where I have stumbled on a mother quail and her babies and she’ll chirp and send them scurrying off into the grass and she will come charging towards me in a circle like she is wounded with one wing out. Basically offering herself as a diversion to save her babies and again Isaiah 49: 15 The Lord has used this symbol and says. Can a woman forget her nursing child? He said they are more likely to forget than I am to forget you. Identifying again that tender love that has for her nursing baby you know there have been a number of young mothers who became unexpectedly pregnant and they well you know I will put the baby up for adoption and they change their mind after the baby is born.

Pastor Dick: Right.

Pastor Doug: There is just something triggered some natural craving and yearning in many cases and they just say I can’t let the baby go. No matter how ill prepared they may be to raise the child. There’s just that natural yearning. And the Lord feels infinitely more love for us than any earthly mother does for their children. And friends if you have not yet experienced that love you can tonight. And we would like to offer you something to make that possible.

Pastor Dick: “The Greatest Love Story Ever Told” is the love of Jesus Christ.

Pastor Doug: Absolutely.

Pastor Dick: We thank Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit love for each one us that is so great that Jesus came in the flesh and died on the cross. “The Greatest Love Story Ever Told” and it is part of the “Amazing Facts” Bible study course it is called “It’s Still There” that love is still there for you and me today. But, we want to invite you to call our resource operators or go to the “Amazing Facts” website and find “It’s Still There” we will send it to you tonight for free and it is just one of the Bible study courses, but please get this and add it to your library. “The Greatest Love Story Ever Told”.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Dick: “It is Still There” Pastor Doug we welcome KPRZ in San Diego, California.

Pastor Doug: Amen that is right.

Pastor Dick: Isn’t that great? KPRZ is San Diego, California 1210 AM covering Oceanside and Huntington Beach, Long Beach, Malibu, Oxnard and all the way up to Ventura, California.

Pastor Doug: That is a pretty good foot print.

Pastor Dick: That’s a good foot print.

Pastor Doug: A lot of people in there.

Pastor Dick: We want to hear from people listening to KPRZ in San Diego or one of these other cities. Please give us a call and we will do our best to get you on the air tonight and welcome you officially to the “Amazing Facts” network. We take a couple of internet questions before we go to the phones. So let’s do that. The first one says what does the Bible say about the wrath of God and why do so many Preachers today preach a watered down message about the wrath of God. There tends to be some Pastors that teach just all roses, other preachers that seem to teach hell fire.

Pastor Doug: Well there is probably a broad spectrum of reasons why pastors shy away from the principle of God’s wrath because it certainly is and who has fond memories of anyone’s wrath?

Pastor Dick: Right.

Pastor Doug: But, it is a Biblical truth and you can find probably one of the most dramatic examples of that in Revelation Chapter 15. It is the shortest Chapter in Revelation fortunately; it only has I think 8 verses. Chapter 15: 1 I saw another sign in heaven great and marvelous. Seven angels having seven last plagues for in them is filled up the wrath of God. And again they say the great day of His wrath has come and who is able to stand? There is a God who is extremely patient and long suffering to us not willing that any should perish. But, there is a day when all of His grace is rejected and all that is left is the judgment. And that judgment people think that penalty for sin is simply death, but there are two parts to the penalty. Jesus paid both. Jesus took the wrath of the Father look at the suffering of Jesus the intense suffering. He was taking the wrath that belongs to us. And that is one aspect and then death is the second part. And if we do not capitalize on Christ’s offer of forgiveness and allow Him to be our substitute for that wrath and that death, then we will fall underneath it. And it is a fearful thing as Hebrews says the fall to stand in the sight of holy God.

Pastor Dick: And it is called God’s strange act.

Pastor Doug: It doesn’t come natural to the Lord.

Pastor Dick: Right. Okay. Second question and this is a good question Pastor Doug. When God renamed Abram “Abraham” and Sari “Sarah” and He renamed Saul “Paul” they were never referred to or called by their old names again. Why after god renames Jacob “Israel” in Genesis 35 did he then continue to be called Jacob? Sometimes in the same sentence when he is called Israel.

Pastor Doug: Yeah well you and I talked about this because it caught us a little by surprise. But, I think the reason is that Abraham and Isaac are very seldom used to identify the Nation because when we say Jacob name is Israel it not only means the man Jacob, but it also means the Nation. He had twelve sons the twelve tribes of the Nation and it did backslide into their father before his conversion before He wrestled with God and got his new name. And so I think there is sometimes they are called Jacob and sometimes they are called Israel depending on how they were behaving in that passage.

Pastor Dick: I think that works and I think that is a very good explanation. Let’s go to the phones.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Pastor Dick: We’ll take our first call for the evening from College Place, Washington. Jesse is listening on KTGS hello Jesse.

Jesse: Hello?

Pastor Dick: Good evening.

Jesse: Yes thank you God bless you.

Pastor Dick: Amen.

Jesse: Yeah I‘m asking some questions on some passages about Elijah. The Bible says to test three against two and I have got about three Scriptures I have been kicking around. And one is Malachi 4: 5 where it is told that Elijah should come before Jesus. And then in Matthew 17: 13 after they were on the Mount of Transfiguration and the Lord was referring to John the Baptist being Elijah. And then again in Luke 1: 17 it says that John was going before the Lord sent in the power of Elijah. And two of them in my mind agree just as Malachi and Matthew says that Luke was just kind of standing alone with the power of Elijah. I was wondering should I put a different interpretation? Should I believe that two were standing out and there are the two Scriptures that agree and the one that stands alone?

Pastor Doug: Well I don’t see any conflict. First of all Elijah did come in person on the Mount of Transfiguration. And that is undeniable and you find that of course in Mark Chapter 9 as well in Matthew and Luke. But, John the Baptist came with the spirit and power of Elijah which simply means that he had the spirit of revival. The same way that Elisha received a double portion of Elijah’s spirit and you can also—you left one out—Matthew Chapter 11: 12 “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of God suffered violence and the violence taken by force.”

Jesse: Umm-hmm.

Pastor Doug: Okay let me see here “And for all the prophets and the law that prophesied until John and if you will receive it…” in other words if you can understand it; this was Elijah that was to come. John came in the Spirit and the Power of Elijah so where’s the conflict?

Jesse: Well because I have been praying about it because some religion interpreted it as being John the Baptist who was this Elijah and others just as it is the Spirit and so when they took that as being John the Baptist it was like he was being reincarnated or something.

Pastor Doug: Well do you remember when the religious leaders came to John the Baptist and they said are you Elijah? And he said “no” and the reason John said “no” is because they didn’t ask him are you ministering in the Spirit and Power of Elijah. They were asking are you the reincarnation of Elijah? And so of course he said “no” to that.

Jesse: Okay.

Pastor Doug: The very fact that it said that Elisha had the Spirit and the Power of Elijah and they both lived contemporaneously; it means it wasn’t reincarnation of what God was talking about.

Jesse: Yeah I am trying to find another Scripture that says that specifically. The Spirit of Elijah is basically what they use.

Pastor Doug: Well in Luke Chapter 1 it talks about the angel told Zacharias that John the Baptist would come in the Spirit and the Power of Elijah. Alright?

Jesse: Yeah and so I need to find another Scripture for that and then they agree so that will be two.

Pastor Doug: Well I’ll tell you the other Scripture is 11 Kings Chapter 2 where Elisha gets the Spirit of Elijah. Alright I hope that helps a little bit Jesse.

Jesse: Yeah sure. Thanks.

Pastor Doug: Good question.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Jesse. To Shelbyville, Kentucky and we want to talk to Mike who is a first time caller calling from Shelbyville hello Mike.

Mike: Hello. Hello.

Pastor Dick: Your question please?

Mike: Yeah I just have a general question and I have been recently studying and reading in the Bible that the divine name Yahweh which is being the name of our Father in heaven has been replaced or adopted as Lord or God in the Bible or as Adonai. And recently I have been doing some studies on Aramaic languages which is the language that they spoke in the ancient days and the Messiah’s name was Yahushua.

Pastor Doug: Yashua.

Mike: Yeah Yashua Ha Mashiach or Yashua the Messiah there’s different opinions on how it was pronounced.

Pastor Doug: Are you wondering how important is it that we say it in the Hebrew pronunciation?

Mike: Well actually my question is that I am seeing how it was changed in the current Bible that we have and I in especially to reference to the movie that came out they used the name Yashua and the correct way that would be translated into English. Into English it would be Joshua and myself I am wondering since upon finding this out I prefer to refer to Him as Yashua Ha Mashiach and I prefer to refer to the Father as just the Father or Yahweh or not as God or Lord because of the pagan background of these words.

Pastor Doug: Well now let me park you for just a minute Mike. You are saying a lot and there is not sin in calling God “God” because the Bible does call Him God.

Mike: I don’t think it is a sin I just—

Pastor Doug: But, there are places in the Bible where it is translated as God.

Mike: My main question is just what do you think is the importance of this because one of the bigger things I get out of the Bible is you are not when I study it you are not supposed to add anything or take anything out. And so I talk to people and I don’t have a problem with someone who refers to the Messiah as Jesus Christ. But, there are people who have a problem with me referring to Him as Yashua.

Pastor Doug: Well probably because they think it is just a little unconventional and technically if we are going to say the Bibles names in the original language and that is one of the things done in this movie is they tried to reproduce the Aramaic as well as they could and the actors said one of the big struggles they had was actually pronouncing it right. The linguistics that were helping to produce the movie pretty much threw their hands in the air because they said they are not saying it right, but the actors couldn’t get through a single scene and say it perfectly. Which is my point; God does not expect us to learn a new language to read the Bible and I am running into a lot of people Mike who are preoccupied with the pronunciation of the original names for Jesus or Joshua or Yahweh than they are in representing them in their lives.

Mike: Well I think more important is the message of the Bible than how you pronounce the names. But, I guess more or less my major question was is this as I run into more and more people and complete it as a total disregard. I have even and I am not going to speak out on different denomination, but there have been some people who said that you are going to hell for this like I have changed the name in some way.

Pastor Doug: Well it is just that technically it is correct, but I think what the Lord wants us to do when we learn the truth He expects us to speak it in our native tongue. Mike I have written an article I have written that I would like to recommend you going to the “Amazing Facts dot org” website and it is free called “The Name of God”. They will be a bar on the right called the Inside Report. That is all these articles; look up “Name of God” and please read that and let me know what you think because I have addressed this in a little more detail there.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Mike and we’ll go next to the Bronx and Miguel is listening on WMCA in New York hello Miguel.

Miguel: How are you doing?

Pastor Doug: Hi and thanks for your call.

Miguel: God bless you. Yes I just needed to talk to somebody because I just gave my life to the Lord and I gave my whole love and trust for Him. Can you hear me?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Miguel: And today I was in the streets and I started looking at women. I feel so terrible and I need to ask you what I can do about this because I just feel terrible. It happened again in eight months about four times. I am being really honest to God faithfully reading my Bible, fasting and doing everything and like I left my guard down today. I was looking at women and am I a hypocrite or what is going on?

Pastor Doug: Well not necessarily because it is not a sin to be tempted. Jesus was tempted and I think that there is a distinction to be made between when you first notice that there is a provocatively dressed woman and then you begin to engage in fantasy or inappropriate thoughts. If you walk down the street you cannot keep from registering certain things. That is different from committing mental adultery. Martin Luther said you can’t prevent the birds from flying over your head, but you can prevent them from making a nest in your hair. Meaning thoughts may come and go, but don’t swell on inappropriate thoughts. I was looking for a Scripture for you in Job and I have it right here. Job said I have made a covenant with my eyes why then should I think upon maid? Job made a covenant with his eyes that look I am not going to look in an inappropriate way for an inappropriate period of time on anybody that is going to tempt me to think inappropriate. Do you know what I am saying?

Miguel: So think I like three months ago not to look at any women. And until today and then I looked at one well I am already committed it to keep on looking.

Pastor Doug: Well you know don’t beat up yourself.

Miguel: But, I didn’t fantasize it was just like wait.

Pastor Doug: You just noticed them. Don’t beat up on yourself and think you have lost your salvation or grieved away the Holy Spirit because you looked as soon as you know something is inappropriate say Lord Help me stay focused on you and look somewhere else. And it is not a sin when you first notice these things. And God has given us minds that detect smells and sights. When you detect something the Holy Spirit will say uh-uh don’t look that is not good. King David got into trouble Miguel because he not only looked, he lusted. Now there is a promise for you in 1 Corinthians Chapter 10 and it says “There is not temptation taken you, but such is common to man. God is faithful and He will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able. But, will with every temptation make a way of escape that you are able to bear it. So when these temptations come God will give you something else to look at or think about and you just have to find that. Okay?

Miguel: I am really happy, but I was feeling so sorrowful because it was like for so long I was doing so good and then I started to lust today and I felt sorry.

Pastor Doug: Well even if you do go a little too far; repent right then and don’t beat yourself up and feel like you have grieved away the Holy Spirit. If you slip and you fall like a child just learning to walk just ask God’s forgiveness and get up and keep on going okay; don’t get discouraged?

Miguel: Well you know this night is blessed. God bless you.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Miguel. To New York Alexis is listening on WMCA welcome Alexis.

Alexis: How are you doing Pastor Doug?

Pastor Doug: Good and your question?

Alexis: My question is you know the Ark of the Covenant how you have the angels one on the right and one on the left?

Pastor Doug: Yes, yes.

Alexis: And God is in the middle. Jesus always refers to the right hand of God. Who is the angel on the left is it Satan and how does this fit into all of that? How does that come into play?

Pastor Doug: Well the Bible is not specific, but we are led to believe that one of those angels was Lucifer. It says in Ezekiel that he was the angel that covereth and that is the covering cherub. You-he has been replaced now, but one of them is Gabriel we believe. And when Gabriel comes he says I have come from the presence of the Lord. So it sounds like he is at the side of the Lord.

Pastor Doug: But, you can read about that also in Isaiah’s vision in Isaiah Chapter 6 it says there were two cherubs on the right and left of the Lord. 3 “And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” (KJV) And that is on God’s heavenly throne. Okay?

Alexis: But, who would it be like Michael the angel on the right hand as Christ?

Pastor Doug: No I don’t think so. So because Michael is called the Arch Angel; he is never called A Seraph or a Cherub.

Alexis: Okay, okay.

Pastor Doug: And another reason when you read in Revelation Michael is leading the Angels against the devil in battle it is not a pair of Angels. He has preeminence over the Seraphim. Okay I hope that helps a little.

Alexis: Thank you Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Alright and God bless you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Alexis where Jimmy is listening in Lynn, Massachusetts on WROL hello Jimmy.

Jimmy: Hi.

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Jimmy: Yes, sir. I have a question on John 3: 13.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Jimmy: Where Jesus said 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (KJV) and I know that Elijah went to heaven so what happened?

Pastor Doug: Well I know that on the surface that might look like a contradiction until you understand that the word “heaven” is used several ways in the Bible. For instance Paul says he was caught in a vision up to the third heaven. The Jews had at least three heavens meaning the atmosphere around the earth was called heaven. The solar system was called heaven. The place that Jesus is preparing mansions is called heaven and even within that and even within paradise there is a throne room of God where it is a temple of God in heaven. You can read about that in Revelation Chapter 11: 19 I believe. So when Jesus sys that no man has ascended into heaven He could mean that no man has ascended into the presence of God because in other places it says that no man has seen God face to face. Elijah and Moses could have gone into heaven, but not yet seen God in His temple. After the restoration of all things in the Bible it promises that man will see Him face to face. Does that make sense?

Jimmy: Okay, yes it does.

Pastor Doug: Well I hope that helps.

Jimmy: Yes it does.

Pastor Doug: God bless you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Jimmy. To Albany, New York and Bob is listening on WSRD. Bob welcome.

Bob: Hi thank you. The Bible reference concerns 1 Samuel 18: 10. Where the Lord says an evil spirit fell upon Saul. 10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand. (KJV)

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Bob: Now if God made everything good and of course we know that he made Lucifer and he fell; what does it mean or how does God send an evil spirit on Saul?

Pastor Doug: In the original Hebrew they sometimes spoke in matters of subtraction. Let me explain. If you reject light from your home then you might say that God sends darkness when you reject light.

Bob: So darkness right?

Pastor Doug: After Saul rejected the Lord withdrew His protection from Saul and he saw the evil spirits came into his mind. So you could say by God withdrawing His protection that He sent the evil spirits. Do you see what I am saying?

Bob: Yes I do.

Pastor Doug: But, God doesn’t ever say well I think I am going to let all these evil spirits loose. It is only after people grieve away His spirit and commit that unpardonable sin He withdraws His protection and then the devil takes control. This also happened to Judas. Do you remember when it said that Satan entered Judas?

Bob: Alright.

Pastor Doug: Well that was after he rejected Christ. Washing His feet for the last time his appeal for mercy when he hardened his heart that time he grieved away the Holy Spirit and Satan took over. Well you would hate to say that Jesus sent Satan to Judas, but Jesus removed His protection at that point because he had finally grieved away the Holy Spirit.

Bob: Well that is very interesting and I would have never thought of it that way. Thank you very much!

Pastor Doug: Well thank you for your question it is a good one.

Bob: Have a good one.

Pastor Doug: God bless.

Pastor Dick: Appreciate the call Bob. We have about a minute and a half Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Well why don’t we use that and that is before our break friends the program is not over rather than just cancel the program—well take a call and have to cut them off—so we will just take a moment and give you some important announcements. Of course we always like to channel people to the website Pastor Dick. In this program we really just give you little tastes of what is coming up and matter of fact if you get the books we have coming up you get the magazine we had a question tonight that was talking about the Mount of Transfiguration that is next month’s article called the glorious Mount. You can find these and more in the archives that answer these questions for free and you can download a lot of these booklets for free. There is a free library and a lot of other resources for the teachers, Christian books, art and illustrations and teaching materials. You can download our TV programs and watch them for free. And there is just a lot of material so go to “Amazing Facts dot org”

Pastor Dick: “dot org”

Pastor Doug: What are some of the other websites we’ve got?

Pastor Dick: “dot com”

Pastor Doug: And we have got “Bible Universe”

Pastor Dick: That is right we have “Bible Universe dot com”

Pastor Doug: Yes and you can get that and “Bible University” and “Bible Universe” so checkout the websites and see how much you can learn over the internet. We’ll be back in a few minutes with more Bible questions so stay with us.


Pastor Doug: Welcome back friend an if you have just found your way to the program you are listening to “Bible Answers Live” and in a moment we are going to go to the phones and if you do have a question we have one line still open if you’d like to call and grab it. It is 1-800-GOD-SAYS or 1-800-463-7297 we’re going to do our best to answer everybody who is on hold. One thing I wanted to mention is we are entirely listener supported. And we have the best collection of “Amazing Facts” for our first seven or eight years. I think we have been on nearly ten years now.

Pastor Dick: Almost.

Pastor Doug: And if you’d like a copy of that then for a donation of any size and make sure to request it; the book of ”Amazing Facts” and you are listening to “Bible Answers Live” it is a gift we send to you to thank you. Okay are we ready Pastor Dick? I am Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: I am Dick Debit. That is a great gift that Doug was just talking about. And I am going to ask our next caller David calling from Blue Jay, California. David where is Blue Jay, California are we getting that right?

David: Yeah well I am thankful for this forum and it is up in the San Berindino Mountains just a little bit east of the Los Angeles area.

Pastor Dick: Oh okay alright.

David: Yeah it is gorgeous.

Pastor Dick: Well welcome to the program and your question please?

David: Yes I just wanted to ask for you to share some thoughts about Isaiah 30: 25 and Revelation 18: 23 in light of recent times and everything that is going on today. Just your thoughts please?

Pastor Doug: Alright Isaiah 30: 25 and I have looked at this before David right after 9.11 I flew to New York while it was still smoldering because I don’t know if you know this, but the “Amazing Facts” ministry spent six weeks in New York in I999. We went to the top of the World Trade Center three times and prayed over the city and did a global satellite uplink and I grew up there so it really moved us and we went back and did a healing hope for New York satellite uplink and I saw this Scripture and I mentioned it and let me read it for our friends. 25 “And there shall be upon every high mountain and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.” (KJV) And many have wondered is this a prophecy. Isaiah has a lot of these sorts of cryptic prophecies that sort of points out things in the future. Sometimes just one verse or so and I am not sure the jury is out for me and there were times when the towers of Jerusalem fell under Nebuchadnezzar they had watch towers, but it does make you wonder if God is saying His healing and grace will be there and that is the symbol of the streams of water. When the country was attacked His grace was available. So it could be an application that way, but we need another prophet to give us an answer on that.

David: It is amazing what is in that book isn’t it?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, yeah.

David: And what about Revelation 18: 23

Pastor Doug: Revelation 18: 23 and that of course is the fall of Babylon and let me go here real quick. And I will read that for our listeners.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug has a great Bible program here that he uses.

Pastor Doug: And I am still using quick verse. 23 “And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.” (KJV) Actually this is a prophecy that goes along with the plague of Babylon falling. And that I don’t believe was in any way connected to what happened I the fall of the World Trade Center. Babylon falling yes is something that is connected with the seven last plagues and is still future tense. Babylon is still very strong right now. We have a whole lesson on that you know.

David: Well the question on Revelation 18: 23 were tying it off together with modern times and how they related and my understanding is the root for sorcery goes back to the root word “Pharmacia”.

Pastor Doug: Right pharmaceuticals are drugs.

David: Right and you can’t turn on anything now without a new wonder drug and ad and I feel that maybe in emergency times maybe drugs are appropriate, but more often than not with the side effects of them that we just need to get back to a more natural lifestyle like was in the Garden.

Pastor Doug: We are getting g to be a medicated people aren’t we?

David: Yes and it is a shame because I have been blessed to have worked with a lot of different people and they get to a more garden lifestyle including more raw fruits and vegetables and stuff like that.

Pastor Doug: They don’t need the drugs anymore.

David: Exactly.

Pastor Doug: Well we have got to be careful during this program David not to border on telling people to get off their medications because someone is bound to find a lawyer if you do that.

David: Yes. I didn’t mean to do that and I was just wondering how you felt about that Scripture in light of everything going on. So you understand.

Pastor Doug: Well I would agree there is no question that every time you look at a commercial now it is some major drug company promoting some drug. It is a really highly medicated culture that we live in and some of them are a blessing for some of them and some people’s lives have been saved by them, but I think that probably we are overmedicated. Hey I need to move on Dave we’re—

David: Okay thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call David. To Nuffly, New Jersey where Bob is listening on WMCA hello Bob.

Bob: Hi.

Pastor Doug: Hi your question?

Bob: My question basically is about the tribulation rapture. I was in church the other day and my Pastor said for about two hundred years that the rapture wasn’t really implied. I mean two hundred years ago it was recognized and was not even in the Bible she said. She said that basically she can’t believe that a God of love would all of sudden take His own and as an example she said for an airplane to take a plot that was close to God and everybody else dies in the airplane that could be saved. And she just doesn’t see this happening. What is your view on the rapture do you think it’s what she was saying that it is a sugar coated message for believers in the church or—is it a false teaching or just ignorance?

Pastor Doug: Well first of all let me answer the word rapture is not used in the Bible.

Bob: Exactly.

Pastor Doug: But, the teaching that God’s people will be caught up is very clear you can read this in 1 Thessalonians 4: 16 we will be caught up to meet Him in the air. That’s very plain. Do you know the modern concept or I should say the popular concept of the rapture sort of the left behind scenario it is really fictious. The rapture is not a secret and when the rapture happens it is not before the tribulation it is at the end. And the ones being caught up to meet the Lord are not being taken off of airplanes and planes crashing. When the Lord comes the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming and the saints are caught up to meet Him in the air and the dead in Christ rise. It is at the end of the tribulation not at the beginning.

Bob: Oh okay I always thought basically there were the rapture and then the tribulation period.

Pastor Doug: Now the Bible is very clear that you’ve got the tribulation and then the righteous are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Now I have got a book that we have written and it is called “Anything but Secret”. And the book deals with the rapture and the tribulation and it is an easy read and an important one. Anyone out there that would like a free copy of “Anything but Secret” please call “Amazing Facts” tonight. I have a lot of Scriptures in there Bob that explain why I believe Biblically it is after the gospel goes to the whole world Jesus said that he that endures until the end will be saved. Endures what? Well the tribulation.

Bob: Yes.

Pastor Doug: And God doesn’t save His people from tribulation He saves them through it. So why don’t you request that and ask for “Anything but Secret”?

Bob: Will do. Thank you very much you have been very helpful.

Pastor Doug: Thank you. God bless.

Pastor Dick: Bob that phone number is 1-800-835-6747.

Bob: Okay thank you.

Pastor Dick: And as Doug said it is an easy read ask for “Anything but Secret”.

Bob: 24 hours a day?

Pastor Dick: Yes, sir. You can call them right now.

Bob: Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Pastor Dick: Alright and thanks for the call. Bye-bye. Let’s go next to Orlando, Florida we want to talk next with Jose who is listening on WTLN; Jose welcome to the program.

Jose: Hello Pastor Doug and hello Pastor Dick.

Pastor Doug: Good evening your question?

Jose: Good evening. My question is that I have taken the Bible study of 27 courses and I have passed it so far.

Pastor Doug: Praise the Lord.

Jose: Thank you. But, I heard on the radio a couple of days ago that when Jesus dies on the cross and that He went to hell and He fought with Satan. He dragged Satan all over hell and then I never heard what happened after that and I had never heard of that and I wonder if there is any part in the Bible that says that?

Pastor Doug: No.


Jose: I never heard of that, but he said that He fought and took some key or something.

Pastor Doug: Yeah there is a teaching that is construed from a passage in Peter where it talks about the Spirit through which Christ preached to those that were in prison. And it is talking about back in the days of Noah and matter of fact Peter specifically mentions that, which Jesus preached through the Holy Spirit back in the days of Noah to those people that were imprisoned by sin. It is not saying that after Jesus died He went down to hell and preached and gave people another chance or that He beat up the devil and dragged him all over; that is a very fictitious and colorful representation of what happened. When Jesus died; He died that is why He told Mary after three days that I have not yet ascended to my Father.

Jose: Right.

Pastor Doug: And He said do not cling to me and this is sort of an absurd teaching that Jesus could get to hell on His own, but He couldn’t get to heaven. And that He went down to preach and give people a second chance after they had already died, hmm? Nothing in the Bible teaches that people get a second chance after death.

Jose: I understand that.

Pastor Doug: It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment and so Jesus doesn’t need to go into hell to beat up the devil. The Bible doesn’t tell us that Satan lives down in a cavern somewhere. Joseph says that Satan walks to and fro on the earth.

Jose: Right.

Pastor Doug: So Jesus beat the devil and beat him at the cross.

Pastor Dick: Amen.

Pastor Doug: In the Garden of Gethsemane. He didn’t have to go down into a fiery cavern somewhere.

Jose: What was the part with the keys again?

Pastor Doug: In 1 Peter it talks about by which Spirit Christ also—oh let me find that for you I am having a brain cramp as they say. I am doing a web search here. Pastor Dick give out the website here.

Pastor Dick: “Amazing Facts dot org” “Amazing Facts dot com” “Bible Universe dot com” “Bible University dot com”

Pastor Doug: Keep going.

Pastor Dick: What else?


Pastor Dick: Okay.

Pastor Doug: You’re doing pretty well. Okay here we go. 1 Peter Chapter 3: 18, 19 and 20 they say: 18 “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” (KJV) So I am telling you if you want proof for that go to Genesis Chapter 6: 3 “And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” (KJV) Okay Jose hope that helps a little bit. Okay God bless.

Jose: It is the man on the radio. Beautiful!

Pastor Doug: Say God bless and thanks for the question and call.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Jose and “Final Events dot com”


Pastor Doug: There you go Pastor.


Pastor Dick: Let’s go next to—well let’s go to Walla Walla, Washington. Tony is listening on KTGS welcome Tony.

Tony: Good evening Pastor Dick and Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening Tony.

Tony: My question is in Mark 14: 49 through 52 actually so you can understand my question. In verse 50 it says “And they all forsook him, and fled.” (KJV) I wanted to know were these the men who came to arrest Him.

Pastor Doug: No. The apostles that had followed Him to the Garden of Gethsemane at first they were going to act like they were fighting, but when Jesus made no effort to resist they fled because they, the soldiers, acted like they were going to arrest them, too. Then some of them kind of crept along and followed from a distance. You can read where it says that Peter verse 54 “And Peter followed him afar off, even into the palace of the high priest: and he sat with the servants, and warmed himself at the fire.” (KJV) and then John began to follow Him and then followed closer as they brought Jesus into the judgment hall the apostle John went in with Him.

Tony: Oh I see.

Pastor Doug: But, it was the apostles that forsook Him and Jesus predicted at the Last Supper He said tonight you will all forsake me.

Tony: Oh I see.

Pastor Doug: They all said oh we would never forsake you.

Tony: I thought it was the people who came to arrest Him, the soldiers.

Pastor Doug: No. The apostles forsook Him

Tony: How about verse 51 about that certain young man that followed Him having a linen cloth on?

Pastor Doug: We believe that this was the young man John Mark. And one reason it is only in his gospel. It says he and then a certain young man and it doesn’t mention an apostle and it is likely that this was John Mark who was trying to find out what was happening. 51 “And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:” He was likely following Him from a distance. Remember that Jesus had been in the Upper Room of the Last Supper with John Mark’s mother that night and late it is the same Upper Room where the Holy Spirit is poured out where the disciples meet after the resurrection. And it probably was John Mark who was following him and he probably just had his bed sheet wrapped around him because he was asleep when all this happened and he didn’t have tine to get himself together.

Tony: Oh so who was the one who laid hold of him then?

Pastor Doug: Well the guards when they saw this young man following who tried to find out what was happening they said, “Ah, do you want to get arrested?” They kind of tried to grab him and he wrestled free and fled naked sort of like Joseph when he escaped from Potiphar’s wife. He left his clothes and ran.


Tony: Okay thanks a lot Doug.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Tony. To Columbia South Carolina and Gary is a first time caller listening on WBHA. Gary your question please?

Gary: Good evening Pastors.

Pastor Dick: Good evening.

Gary: My question is that since the Sabbath was initiated at creation so you think the angels or other created worlds would have a Sabbath? Or would they not need one because the Sabbath was made for man?

Pastor Doug: Well let’s think about that for a minute. The Bible does say and I am thinking out loud okay? Isaiah Chapter 66 says that from one new moon to another and one flesh shall come to worship before Him. Now that may mean all those on planet earth. But, I suspect that if the purpose of the Sabbath is to spend quality time with God then the Lord may have when He gathers and others and others from other worlds meet with Him. I don’t know if it is the same day and they will come from other galaxies or if there is a different day, but the Bible is not clear on that so all can do is speculate Gary.

Gary: Yeah I was just wondering and didn’t know if there was any kind of Bile references and I just wanted to get your opinion on it.

Pastor Doug: Well the Sabbath we know was made on the seventh day of creation of our world. That was God created six days and then He made the Sabbath for this world. So whether new worlds will join us in the new earth; I don’t know.


Gary: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Now wait. Hey a Scripture came into my mind. There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and that is in Job Chapter 1. So I don’t know if it is once a month; every new moon or what maybe once a year. But, maybe they are going to be other heavenly meetings because during that heavenly meeting it says they are not on earth. God said to the devil where did you come from and he said I came from the earth. So there is some heavenly meeting on a day when they meet. I don’t know what day it is. It is something to think about though huh?

Gary: Yeah well hope we can find out soon.

Pastor Dick: Amen. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Well that is my plan. God bless.

Gary: Thank you.

Pastor Dick: God bless you Gary and thanks for the call Gary. To the Bronx and we want to talk to Charles listening on WMCA Charles, good evening.

Charles: Hey how you doing?

Pastor Dick: Good and your question please?

Charles: My question is based on 1 Corinthians Chapter 1 and I believe it is verse 25 in 1 Corinthians. And it is written here for the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom. And I was just wondering because in my belief God has no foolishness so where did that come from?

Pastor Doug: Well in 1 Corinthians Chapter 1: 23 it explains it. 23 “But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” (KJV) Paul is simply saying that the Greeks thought the concept of the resurrection and one God because see the Greeks had many, many gods was foolishness. And then he goes on and later and says but, the foolishness of God and Paul is speaking sarcastically about what the Greeks think. This message that they call foolish is wiser than men. And so he is not saying that God is foolish he is saying that the ancient Greeks called the gospel foolish. Okay? So God is not foolish. A matter of fact the Bible says it is a fool who says there is no God.

Charles: Alright I understand and can I ask you something else?

Pastor Doug: if it is quick.

Charles: Yes very quick I was just wondering in the gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and I am not here to contradict I am a believer I just want to understand and t says at different times that the two people that were crucified with Jesus the first two gospels say they railed him and the other one tells—

Pastor Doug: And Luke tells that one of them was converted.

Charles: Right and in Luke says why would you mock Jesus.

Pastor Doug: I think I have an easy answer for you.

Charles: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Jesus was on the cross for six hours and different apostles watched at different segments. They were not all there at one time and at one point Jesus’ mother fainted and John probably bore her away. But, we believe that Matthew and Mark were telling what they saw for the first few hours both thieves were saying if you are the Christ then save us. But, just before Jesus died one of the last things was the thief on the right had a change of heart he saw the tender way that Jesus dealt with His enemies and he saw Jesus’ concern for his mother when he committed His mother’s care to the apostle John. And so his heart changed and the Holy Spirit worked on him and he finally said to his desperado friend on the other side that well we are getting what we deserve. This man probably is Christ and so he was converted. So Luke fills that in and one reason we believe that is that the apostles may have left the cross before the last ones did and the women were the last ones there and Luke interviewed the women and got his gospel from them. They saw this conversion of the one thief.

Charles: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Charles: Is there any way I can get that book that you were telling about?

Pastor Doug: Yeah about the second coming and rapture?

Charles: Right.

Pastor Dick: Call 1-800-835-6747.

Charles: Okay thank you.

Pastor Doug: And ask for “Anything but Secret”.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Charles.

Charles: Okay thank you.

Pastor Dick: to Yakama, Washington and Joe is listening on KOMH Joe good evening.

Joe: Hi I was wondering about that in the last days the book of Revelation makes mention of that there is going to be a time where no one can buy, sell, or trade unless they receive a particular mark. Some people believe that the Christians at this time will still be here and I’m just wondering that if the Christians are here during this time then how would the Lord provide for the people scattered throughout every nation of the earth who believe in Him if they didn’t have the mark?

Pastor Doug: Don’t worry about that first of all were the children of Israel in Egypt when the plagues fell?

Joe: Yes I remember reading that.

Pastor Doug: Well they were in Egypt when the plagues fell right?

Joe: Yes.

Pastor Doug: They went out of Egypt after the plagues and on to the Promised Land. We will be in the world when the plagues fall. God took care of the children of Israel miraculously during the plagues. He will are for His people and the Bible tells us that our bread and water will be sure in Isaiah. And I am trying to remember what that verse is and also in Psalm 91 it tells us that we will find refuge in the Lord. That is Isaiah 33: 13 & 14. So it may be a good idea—so God will take care of us during that time. And He will feed us miraculously when—remember when Joe in the Bible that Elijah fled through the wilderness?

Joe: Yes.

Pastor Doug: God fed him there miraculously. When Samuel was dying of thirst God opened up the ground and gave him a drink. When Jesus was in the wilderness after His forty days angels ministered unto Him and we believe that means they fed Him. So God will take care of us and we are just going to have to trust Him.

Joe: Okay thank you.

Pastor Doug: Alright.

Pastor Dick: To Ellensburg, Washington June is listening on KCSH hello June.

June: Hi there.

Pastor Doug: Good evening.

June: Good evening and thanks for taking my call. The question I have is more out of curiosity than a crutch of salvation. But, a French man shared with me earlier that he had just heard a sermon stating that this Pastor had read somewhere that during creation week and it came time to crate the man and the woman that the man was created outside of the Garden itself. And that this would answer why men have this more rugged adventurous element of life and the woman was actually created inside the Garden and so that explains the differences that we see between men and women. I had never heard that before and was curious what Pastor Doug might have to say about that?

Pastor Doug: Well I don’t know who the Pasto is that said that, but he is coming from the twilight zone. And I don’t mean to be unkind, but that really is what. The Bible is so clear that God took man placed him in the Garden to dress and keep the Garden and he wasn’t expelled from the Garden until after sin. So man was made in the Garden to take care of the Garden.

June: Oh really? Right.

Pastor Doug: And the woman was taken of course in the Garden from man’s side.

June: But, as I recall it I read in the Bible where Adam was to go out and name the animals. And that is when he realized there were two of each and only one of him and he questioned God about why only one of me? But, I had not heard before that approach that God created the man outside of the Garden.

Pastor Doug: Well I think someone thinks that God’s garden is the size of a city park. But, God’s Garden was enormous and probably bigger than the State of California. Back before he was expelled and the world was destroyed by a flood. The idea that God created Adam as this creature that was supposed to poke around in this backyard somewhere so I don’t know where this guy is getting that, but it is a lot of wild speculation and very fanciful to think that.

June: So was there any evidence that Adam and Eve went outside the Garden before they were actually expelled?

Pastor Doug: No. No and He did tell them after sin to go and fill the earth. But, I don’t think there is any Biblical reason to believe that. June I mean man can be adventurous and be made in the Garden. I mean don’t know why the Pastor thought that.


Pastor Doug: I hope that helps you a little bit.

June: It does thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: Alright God bless.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug if we start another call we’ll just have to cut them off and we are just out of time.

Pastor Doug: Are we?

Pastor Dick: Yeah we have about a minute and a half.

Pastor Doug: Oh I am sorry to hear that. Well friends if we didn’t get to your call we will be taking one or two off the air and God willing we hope you will be tuning in next week. Please keep in mind that his is entirely a listener supported program. And the reason you hear it is because of people like you who say well I have been listening for years and never done anything to keep them on the air. You can even donate at our website and we love to hear your comments if you enjoy the program. Drop us a lie and let us know and we want to thank our new Station KPRZ San Diego, California and they are just getting up to speed and we hope that we hear from you in the next few weeks covering Oceanside, Huntington Beach, Malibu, Oxnard and Ventura that is the area I was born. So listening friends we pray you’ll look at the website and capitalize on all the resources. For those of you teaching a Bible class be sure to go to the free library and you’ll find a lot of answers to Bible questions at the website “Amazing Facts dot org”. Also look at our radio TV guide. Not only do we do this weekly National radio program, we do International television programs on cable on VHF TV, UHF TV, satellite broadcasts, shows on Angel Broadcasts and I could go on. God bless you friends and remember it is not the details that make the difference it is getting to know Jesus; the truth that sets you free.


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