Climbing Higher

Date: 01/22/2006 
From the time baby boys first pull themselves us to walk, men seem to have a yearning to climb trees, mountains, even tall buildings. Eventually, most of us learn natural fear of dangerous heights but some never develop that fear. Take for example, George Polly, the first 'human fly' in North America.
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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact?

From the time baby boys first pull themselves us to walk, men seem to have a yearning to climb trees, mountains, even tall buildings. Eventually, most of us learn natural fear of dangerous heights but some never develop that fear. Take for example, George Polly, the first 'human fly' in North America. He began his climbing career as a boy when in 1910, the owner of a clothing store promised him a free suit if he would climb to the roof of the building. He succeeded.

In 1920, he climbed the Wolver’s building but was arrested for climbing without official permission. Nevertheless, George was soon in demand for his climbing skills. He was often invited to climb a building as part of the opening ceremonies of some new business. Sometimes, he would even spice up his performance by pretending to slip and he would drop from one window sill to another. Over his short career, Polly climbed the walls of over 2,000 tall buildings. Tragically, George Polly died at the age of 29 not from a fall but due to a brain tumor.

Another remarkable building climber was George Wielik who, on May 26, 1977, he climbed the South Tower of the World Trade center without ropes or net. The mayor of New York City fined him $1.10-- $0.01 for each of the 110 floors. Then there is the French Spiderman, Allyn Robert, who climbs for publicity. He’s well-known for his climbing exploits having scaled barehanded the Eiffel Tower, Sears Tower, and more than 30 other skyscrapers including New York’s Empire State building in 1994 and Malaysia’s Pretonus Towers in 1997.

It makes one wonder if this urge for man to build and scale higher is why early men built the Tower of Babel. Stay with us, friends! We’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live!


Pastor Dick: Welcome to Amazing Facts Ministries’ Bible Answers Live with Pastor Doug Batchelor. Do you find it challenging to understand the Bible? Are there passages of Scripture that confuse you? Is it sometimes difficult to connect what you read in the Bible with what you’ve been taught? Then you’ve found the right program because the Word of God is a quick and powerful sword against evil. Stay tuned to better understand the will of God for your life. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question, lines are open Sundays from 7 to 8 P.M. Pacific Time. Now, here’s your host, the president of Amazing Facts Ministries, author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Doug: Welcome, once again listening friends to this fresh edition of Bible Answers Live. And if you are tuning in for the first time, you found your way to a live, international, interactive Bible study and we welcome your participation. You can call in with your Bible question. You can pray for us as we do our best to find the answers in God’s word. And you can listen.

If you have a Bible question, it is a free phone call and that number is 800-GOD-SAYS, and that stands for 800-463-7297. Now is a good time to give us a call and get your question on tonight’s broadcast. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Devitt and Pastor Doug is right. We still have a couple of questions or a couple of lines still open so give us a call and we’d get you on the air. Good evening, Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Evening, Richard!

Pastor Dick: We normally start with a prayer so let’s do that.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Pastor Dick: Thank You, Lord, for the privilege of listening to Your voice, of using the airwaves, of being able to share the Word of God with callers, people searching for answers to deep questions of Your Word. We pray heavenly Father that You will open our hearts and our minds, that You will give us Your wisdom and discernment…

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Dick: Be with Pastor Doug and give him clarity of thought, Lord; clarity of expressions so that we can understand what You are trying to say to all of us. We praise You and we thank You as our Lord and as our Savior. In Jesus’ name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug, there is all kinds of symbolism in the Bible and one of the greatest symbols is this Tower of Babel and Babylon itself—this great, ancient country—what does it stand for? What does Babylon stand for in the Bible? What does it mean?

Pastor Doug: That’s a good question and it’s actually filled with meaning. The first time you hear reference to Babylon in the Bible is Genesis chapter 11 when after the flood and men began to multiply, they wanted to build this tower—you can read that in verse 4. And the people said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower whose top is in the heavens. And let us make a name for ourselves,” and not a name for God, “lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”

So Babylon sort of represents, for one thing, rebellion because God told them to scatter and multiply. Secondarily, Babylon represents a man-made religion, “make a name for ourselves,” not for God’s glory, and to some extent, many commentators believed it sort of represents man’s effort to work his way to heaven—to climb his way to heaven—which of course, ties in with our amazing fact. And then, of course, there Babylon grew into a great Empire that was one of the great world Empires under Nebuchadnezzar. The country of Babylon is in the News a lot today with Iraq and some are wondering if the prophecies in Revelation, are they talking about the Iraq war and what’s happening over there? And people might have questions about Babylon today. What is Babylon? What are these prophecies you find in Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and especially Revelation about Babylon.

Revelation Babylon is identified as a woman. And so, people might want to understand this subject better and we have something that I don’t think we’ve offered for a couple of years—brand new lesson on the subject.

Pastor Dick: That’s right. And newly designed, the lesson is called, “The Other Woman,” and it is an explanation, if you will, of Satan’s powerful but secret deception and the Word of God. You know, Satan goes about designing deceptions, counterfeits for every truth in the Bible.

Pastor Doug: Right.

Pastor Dick: And Jesus said, “There is no other name—no other way—under heaven” but through Him—through His Father and yet men tried to build their way to heaven. We try to do all kinds of things in order to make ourselves more perfect. So this lesson will be good for people—anyone—who would like to have this in your library, please call and ask for “The Other Woman.” It is an exposé of Satan’s powerful but secret deception. And we will make it available to you if you will call our resource operators tonight at 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That’s the number into our studio and 1-800-835-6747 to our resource operators. Write both of those numbers down so that you can get in touch with us tonight. The resource number again is 835-6747, 1-800. And the number for the program tonight is 1-800-GOD-SAYS.

Pastor Doug, we take a couple of Internet questions before we go to the phones…

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Pastor Dick: …so let’s do that. First of all, this comes from Deborah who asks for the meaning of adultery and she says specifically, “Is it only the act or could it be more like watching pornography and if someone has committed adultery, can they ever remarry?”

Pastor Doug: Good question. Well, of course, Jesus expanded the definition of adultery there in Matthew chapter 5 where He talks about “if a man looks upon a woman to lust in his heart, he is guilty of adultery.” But I would be careful to say… I’ve actually met people before who said, “Well, I’m thinking it in my heart and the Bible says that’s the same thing as doing it so I may as well do it.” No, no, no, no! Jesus doesn’t say that. It is not the same thing.

For one thing, when you think it, there’s one person involved. When you do it, then there’s twice as many list people involved. And so, others might be thinking, “Well, if my spouse is guilty of thinking it because of an addiction or problem with pornography, don’t I have grounds for divorce because it’s like they’re doing it?” Well, as much as that would be a difficult situation that needs prayer and victory, that even can be humiliating for the spouse, that’s not biblical grounds because I would venture to say that there are not too many people listening to my voice that are adults that at one time or another have not been tempted with impure thoughts. And every time someone had an impure thought, we said, “I’ve got grounds for divorce.” It’d be the worst statistics than we have in the world today.

But it is; Jesus said that it’s not just the action, it is also the attitude. But the action is what we act on. God acts on the attitude. Although if God looks in the heart, He knows what those things are.

Pastor Dick: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: But we can only act on the action.

Pastor Dick: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: So hopefully, that helps a little bit.

Pastor Dick: Okay, second question, “Is it okay to get cremated? What does the Bible teach? And is it a sin?”

Pastor Doug: Well, make sure you’re dead first [laughing].

Pastor Dick: [Laughing]

Pastor Doug: But there is really no command that says you can or cannot be cremated. Typically, in the Bible, burial is the method that was used in that line. There are a couple of exceptions. King Saul, his body—when he died in battle—was somewhat mutilated by the Philistines and so the men of Jabesh-Gilead they burned… they cremated his remains. And Jonathan and Saul… you know, he was cremated and he won’t be in heaven. Jonathan, his son, died the same way and was cremated the same way—he will be in heaven based on the evidence we have in the Bible.

So some have thought, “Well, if you’re cremated, God can’t resurrect you because there’s too many small parts and He can’t reassemble you,” and I’ve actually had people wonder if this is a problem for God. That’s absurd. During the Dark Ages when some of the Christians were burned for their faith, the idea was they can’t be resurrected if they’re burned because there’s too many small pieces and they turned to ash. But really, when a person’s buried, everyone… ashes to ashes and dust to dust—we all turn back to the elements of the earth. So biblically, burial is the most common example. Many of the pagans do cremate and so they’re not our best example but there’s no command that says, “Thou shall not do it.” So, I have to give you a Bible answer.

Pastor Dick: Let’s go to the phones and take our first caller for the evening. We want to go to Lakeland, Florida and talk with Andrei who’s listening on the Internet. Welcome, Andrei!

Andrei: Hello. Hello Pastor Doug; hello Pastor… my Bible question is, “To each man is given a measure of faith according to God’s word.”

Pastor Doug: Right.

Andrei: Will God have mercy upon those who refuse to rest in truth but not totally refuse through faith on external factors by the presentation? For example, the crusades of Rome to convert Islam or Islam nation and to Christianity, or will they just get pure stripe?

Pastor Doug: Well, that may vary from person to person, Andrei, because “man looks on the outward appearance, God looks on the heart…”

Andrei: Okay.

Pastor Doug: …and there are maybe people in different religions who are exposed to different elements of truth. If a person lives up to the light that they have—the evidence on the light that they’ve received—I believe that God is very fair with them. Of course, God is fair with everybody but I mean He’s very merciful to those people. In Hosea 4:6, the Lord says, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because thou hast rejected knowledge.” Rejecting knowledge, we’re more culpable than not… just the lack of knowledge, not having it.

Andrei: Okay.

Pastor Doug: That’s like you said. Jesus said, “To whom much is given, much is required.”

Andrei: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: And “he who knew his master’s will and did not do it will be beaten with many stripes.”

Andrei: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: So does that answer what you’re fishing for?

Andrei: Well, I was looking more… so, in regards to the crusades and in regards to Christianity, I’m just wondering like… I’m still kind of wondering what would… how would God deal with a bad presentation of the gospel like if someone was to communicate about the gospel but give a bad presentation of it?

Pastor Doug: Well, that, of course, the example of many Christians through history. While they may have shared components of truth, and this is true not only during the crusades but the conquistadors in Central and South America as were even some of the early settlers in North America; they may have used the name of Christ and then behaved in a very un-Christlike manner which erodes the witness—it makes the witness a lot weaker—and God, you know, He’ll judge those people based on the knowledge they had and also the way it was presented. So…

Andrei: Okay. Alright.

Pastor Doug: …yeah, I think God is very fair.

Andrei: Okay. That’s what I was wondering because I always wanted to just look at the fact that you just received truth and not the manner in which it’s given.

Pastor Doug: And I think God looks at every aspect in all dimensions of how it’s presented—how it’s packaged—and who delivers it and all those things affect. But you know, even just tonight, we were talking that God sometimes even uses the lost to present the message of truth because the truth has power all by itself. You know what I’m saying?

Andrei: Wow!

Pastor Doug: I hope that helps a little bit, Andrei. It sounds like your train’s going by. We’re going to let him… going to let the train go.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call, Andrei. We’ll go next to Huntsville, Alabama, Pastor Doug. We want to talk with Elaine who’s listening on WOSG. Good evening, Elaine!

Elaine: Good evening. How are you?

Pastor Dick: Good. And your question please.

Elaine: My question is as a… I’m a single parent. I’m trying to be a Christian and it’s like because I know how and I was pampering my children to a stage where they can, you know, not be around the influences of Satan as much as possible. And I know you can’t help everything but I was wondering if it is wise that I keep the father of my children from spending so much time with them to avoid the negative influences such as music and maybe smoking or drinking or whatever the case may be. I know…

Pastor Doug: Well, that…

Elaine: …it’s [inaudible 00:15:42] about that.

Pastor Doug: Okay. I can’t give you a verse per sé that deals with a split home as you’re describing—not that I know of—but my initial reaction would be as much as you want to shield your children from evil influences, if the father is not, you know, really physically harming the children or abusing them in some way, I don’t think you want to remove his influence because that’s very important. If you are living a consistent Christian life and the father is being inconsistent or living a worldly life that will not prevent your missionary influence on your children. And they’ll see the contrast right away…

Elaine: Okay.

Pastor Doug: …and they’re very likely to choose… they’re more likely to choose the happy parent who has direction and purpose and is kind and nice than the one whose life is just, you know, following the way of the world and they’re selfish and miserable.

Elaine: Right. Well, thank you so much! You helped out a whole lot. I appreciate your help.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Thank you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call, Elaine. To Elsinore, Missouri. We want to talk with Darlene on KOKS. Hello Darlene!

Darlene: Hello?

Pastor Dick: And your question please.

Darlene: I have a question. I know that God created Adam and Eve and He also created the Garden of Eden with everything in it, but why did God create the forbidden tree in the Garden?

Pastor Doug: Good question. If God’s a loving God then why would He make a bad tree? Everything was good. Well, Satan was roaming through the universe looking for a world—actually, probably looking for other worlds—that would join him in his rebellion against God and God restricted his influence in any world and He told the devil the only place—“the only stage you’ve got to campaign—to talk to these new creatures called man would be around that tree.” And he was restricted to that spot. And so, in order to give all of His creatures freedom to choose whether to follow God or to follow the rebel—the devil—He made this tree. And that’s why He told Adam and Eve, “Don’t eat from the tree. Don’t even touch it.” In other words, avoid that tree.

And when Eve lingered at the tree then finally, the serpent met her there—serpent possessed by Satan—so it was there as a test, to answer your question in a quick way, Darlene.

Darlene: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Does that make sense?

Darlene: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: And when you get to heaven… see, when God made the Garden of Eden, there was the tree of life and the tree of good and evil—the forbidden tree. In heaven, there’s only the tree of life—no more temptation there and no more tests. See what I’m saying?

Darlene: Yup.

Pastor Doug: Alright.

Darlene: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call, Darlene.

Pastor Doug: Good question.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug, we’ll go next to Modoc, California. Crystal is listening on the Internet. Hi Crystal!

Crystal: Hi.

Pastor Dick: And what’s your question please.

Crystal: Could you please explain 2 Kings 6:29-32?

Pastor Doug: 2 Kings 6:29-32. Oh, yeah! That’s a tough story. Alright, this is a story where during the famine in Israel, they were surrounded by the Syrians that one mother—they were so hungry they were eating their children—and I know this sounds very disturbing, Crystal, but back in the days of Moses, Moses foretold that if the children of God did not obey the Lord, if they turn to other gods that their enemies would besiege them and they would actually get to the place where they ate each other like cannibals because they were starving. And this one story tells about a woman whose whole family is starving so she boiled one of her children—she agreed with another woman—she said, “We’ll eat my child and feed our families today. Tomorrow, we’ll eat your child.” But the other woman hid her son. She wouldn’t go for that.

You know, there’s an interesting pattern you see, Crystal. There are women in the Bible many times fighting over baby boys. Do you remember a story where two women came before Solomon fighting over baby boys?

Crystal: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: One was alive and one had died. And then there are the wives of Jacob—Rachel and Leah—they kept fighting and arguing over baby boys. And then when you get to the book of Revelation, the dragon’s trying to devour this man-child as soon as it’s born. These two women arguing about baby boys represent the two churches that you find all the way from the beginning even in Revelation—that lesson we’re offering tonight, Pastor Dick…

Pastor Dick: Right.

Pastor Doug: “The Other Woman.” I meant to add, the reason it’s called “The Other Woman” is Revelation 12 has the first woman. She’s God’s church. And then there’s another woman and one devours the baby boy and one saves the baby boy. And it’s like the story of Rachel and Leah, and Hannah and Peninah; and even the two women before Solomon. That’s the spiritual significance of the story and the literal significance is they were starving so much that they were resorting to cannibalism—it’s very disturbing. Did that make sense?

Crystal: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Thanks for calling. I hope that helps a little bit. If you’d like a copy of the free lesson we offer, just call that number.

Pastor Dick: 1-800-835-6747, Crystal, and ask for the lesson that we offered tonight. It’s called, “The Other Woman.” Let’s talk next to Thaddeus, Pastor Doug. He’s in Bakersfield, California listening on KFHL. Welcome Thaddeus!

Thaddeus: Thank you. My name is Thaddeus. I’m from Ethiopia.

Pastor Dick: Okay.

Thaddeus: And I really appreciate Pastor Doug. Sometimes I come from my work, I watch his preaching on the television when I was in San Diego. It’s very wonderful and godly teaching and I like it.

Pastor Doug: Well, thank you.

Thaddeus: Let me go to my question here. This maybe, it sounds a theological question but hopefully it is… I need a neutral answer, which is, did Jesus took the blood and the flesh from Mary? And I was reading the book, “Bible Writers Theology,” which is very famous book, and I did not understand that meaning. Did Jesus took a blood or flesh from Mary?

Pastor Doug: Well, it’s I believe addressing the truth that while Jesus was God’s Son incarnate—God the Son took on flesh—it’s called the incarnation, He did actually have genetic material—blood and flesh—from Mary because, obviously, He is in the mother’s womb. His placenta is attached to Mary and He’s drawing sustenance from Mary so Christ was born as other babies are born. He did come from Mary. He did have 100% human elements. How Jesus can be 100% God and 100% man is a mystery. We don’t understand it but when you read in Matthew chapter 1, Thaddeus, the Bible tells us what the genealogy of Jesus was. It tells us all about His ancestors.

In Luke chapter 3, it tells about the ancestors through the line of Joseph and… I’m sorry, through the line of Mary and in Matthew chapter 1, it tells about the line through Joseph. So these people—these characters—in history like David, Jesus is called the Son of David.

Thaddeus: Right.

Pastor Doug: And of both Mary and Joseph were related to David. He actually had some of their genetic DNA in His body.

Thaddeus: But the Bible says God is Word, the Word become flesh.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Thaddeus: Or God is Spirit and Mary conceived of Holy Spirit. All in other way is Jesus took the blood and the flesh from Mary as in the book of Psalm it says, “Brother cannot save brother,” which means Adamic nature… sinful nature cannot save sinful nature.

Pastor Doug: Well, now, there’s a different question there if you’re asking if Jesus had a sinful nature. Jesus was tempted, the Bible tells us in Hebrews, in all points as we are yet without sin. And so, was Jesus tempted the way we’re tempted? The Bible is very clear He was. Did He ever sin? No. He was tempted like we’re tempted. He got hungry. He got tired. But He never sinned. But was He 100% physical? Yes—He got thirsty, He got tired, He got lonely. He looked for the… and that’s Hebrews 4:15, “He was tempted like we are, yet without sin.” I hope that helps, Thaddeus. This is a deep subject and we want to reserve some time for the other callers so, appreciate your phone call.

Pastor Dick: God bless, Thaddeus. Thanks for the call. Let’s go next, Pastor Doug, to Gainesville, Florida. We want to talk with Marcus who’s listening on the Internet. Good evening, Marcus.

Marcus: Hey, how are you going and doing tonight?

Pastor Dick: Good!

Marcus: That’s great. Let me jump straight to my question. My question is, are there still apostles and prophets on this earth today? And if so, what are their role in the church?

Pastor Doug: Alright. Good question. If you look in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, it tells us what the gifts of the Spirit are. And there are many different gifts and the gifts include the gift of prophecy. And it says—of course, not everyone has the same gift—“Are all apostles? Are all prophets?” and went and covered earnestly the best gifts. Now he identifies in 1 Corinthians 14 the gifts of prophecy as the best gift. The gift of prophecy did not always mean… the word “prophet” is used two ways in the New Testament. Sometimes you think of the prophet Elijah or John the Baptist, one of these fiery prophets. But most of the time, prophecy means “to proclaim” or “to preach.”

Pastor Dick: Amen.

Pastor Doug: And so, this is a gift that was seen in the church then and we still have in the church today. The reasons that they early church still needed the gift of prophecy and apostles, we still need them today. I mean, we still need the same leadership; we still need the same spiritual insight and guidance, isn’t that right? And it tells us we’re going to need these things until we all come into the unity of the faith. You can read in Ephesians 4:10, “He gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,” now here he tells how long we need those gifts, “’til we all come in the unity of the faith unto the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.” Now, we haven’t reached that point yet, have we? So we still need those gifts, correct?

Marcus: Right. I don’t think so.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, so they’re still there. You know, don’t be discouraged because the waves of power through history in the church kind of come and go. They ebb and flow. So I think you’re going to see prophets the way they had in the book of Acts before the end of time. Okay?

Marcus: I think that answers my question.

Pastor Doug: Now, we’ve got a book on prophets that we’ll send you if you like—a free booklet.

Marcus: I would love gifts. Yeah.

Pastor Doug: It’s a book… yeah. Well, Pastor Dick will give you the number. It’s called, “Does God Inspire Psychics and Astrologers?” It tells about true and false prophets. Okay?

Marcus: Okay.

Pastor Dick: Okay. Marcus, here’s the phone number. Just call the resource number, 1-800-835-6747; that’s 835-6747. It’s an 800 number, the call is free and the book is free. We’ll send it out to you if you’ll call them tonight. They’ll take your name and address and they’ll ship it to you.

Well, there’s music, Pastor Doug. First half is gone.

Pastor Doug: It passes quickly. Listening friends, just want to remind you, get a pencil handy for a couple of reasons. One is you want to write down that resource number Pastor Dick has been sharing. In addition, you may want to take the Amazing Facts address, drop us a line, or jot down one of the many websites we have to minister truth to the people around the world. Starting with the home website, You can also check out and in addition, we’ve also got the Sabbath Truth website. And just go and there’s a plethora of information there that will help you in your understanding the truth.

So stay tuned! We’ve got more Bible questions and Bible answers coming right after these announcements.


Pastor Dick: Welcome back to Bible Answers Live with Doug Batchelor. Because this is a pre-recorded broadcast of our Sunday night program, call from 7 to 8 P.M Pacific Time on Sundays with your Bible-related questions. Receive clear, practical answers from the Bible about prophecy, doctrine, biblical principles. Call 800-GOD-SAYS; 800-463-7297. Now, join us as we open our Bibles for more Bible answers live with author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Doug: Welcome back, listening friends, and if you have just tuned in, you found your way to Bible Answers Live. This is a live, international, interactive Bible study that has been on the air for 10 ½ years now. Is that right, Pastor Dick?

Pastor Dick: That’s right. 10 ½ years.

Pastor Doug: And you know, I just feel inspired that maybe I should make this announcement now. It’s the middle worth the pinnacle of the program. This is something that we’ve been putting off but I think it’s our last chance to let you folks know that Pastor Dick has made a very difficult decision that he is going to be retiring from the program.

Pastor Dick: Right.

Pastor Doug: He has been doing this… most people don’t know Pastor Dick. You’re a full time Pastor. You’ve pastored three churches over the 11 years that we’ve been doing this.

Pastor Dick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: And you just come on your own and volunteer your time, Sunday night. You’re not paid for this.

Pastor Dick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: And other than the treasure in heaven is being stored away…

Pastor Dick: It’s been a privilege, Pastor Doug. You called me when you started this program and said, “Dick, would you help me?” and…

Pastor Doug: I kind of tricked you. I said, “We’re doing a pilot,” and we never got out of the pilot mode.

Pastor Dick: We never got out of the pilot mode [laughing].

Pastor Doug: [Laughing] 50 stations later.

Pastor Dick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: But we sure do appreciate what you’ve been doing and the sacrifice you’ve made and Pastor Dick is in the studio with Betty, his wife, tonight. And she’s been here before and it’s sometimes been a sacrifice for Betty to have her husband gone. Not only busy pastoring but Sunday nights we’re… we figured out over 500 Sunday nights…

Pastor Dick: Wow! Boy!

Pastor Doug: …that you’ve been here. And I just like to encourage our listeners. If you appreciate the dedication, the sacrifice, the ministry that Pastor Dick has brought to Bible Answers Live, then drop us a line and let us know. He’d love to hear from you. We’ll pass all those… I was tempted to give out your personal phone number and email address.

Pastor Dick: [Laughing]

Pastor Doug: But you better send them to Amazing Facts and we’ll pass those on to Pastor Dick and I’m sure he’d love to hear your comments and notes of appreciation but we just want to thank you. And I personally want to thank you for your dedication. And rain or shine, you’ve been here. Well, aside from a couple of [inaudible 00:32:33] and we know that God has expanding ministry for you. You’ve been in a new church that’s growing for the last couple of years. I’m sure that has something to do with it.

Pastor Dick: That has something to do with it. We’re getting ready for a major evangelistic series to Africa in a couple of months and I know that Bible Answers Live is going to expand. I know this network is going to grow even more. It’s a powerful tool, Pastor Doug, and I’ve appreciated being here with you. I want to thank you again. Well, it’s just time; 48 years I’ve been on the air…

Pastor Doug: Wow!

Pastor Dick: …in one form or another and so…

Pastor Doug: We should be calling you “Dick Harvey.” [Laughing]

Pastor Dick: [Laughing] Well, I don’t know about that but it has been a joy and God has blessed and I know He will continue to bless. So God bless you.

Pastor Doug: Well, and thank you so much. But we don’t want to… hey, we don’t want to quit like this.

Pastor Dick: No…

Pastor Doug: We’re going back in doing our job. We got phones lined up.

Pastor Dick: That’s right. We’ve got people sitting here and they’re saying, “Okay, enough of that!” Let’s go… so we’ll do that. Let’s go talk to Peter in New Rochelle, New York. Hello Peter, welcome to the program!

Peter: Well, thank you, Pastors. I would like to join Pastor Doug to wish Pastor Dick a happy retirement from the program and I’ll pray for you that God will lead you in the area that you are going. I’ve got really touched that you’re going and taking the gospel to Africa. And it touches my heart a lot.

Pastor Dick: Yes. We’re going to Ghana in just a couple of months.

Pastor Doug: And this will be your second, third trip?

Pastor Dick: About four, I think.

Pastor Doug: Fourth trip?

Pastor Dick: Or five. Four or five… that’s five, I think. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you, Peter. And your question please.

Peter: Yes, my question is, could you explain Psalm 95:8-11 for me? Particularly where the verse 11 that says, “They shall not enter my rest.” Does this refer to if we are not saved?

Pastor Doug: Alright, Psalm 95; you want me to start with verse 8? I don’t know if I’ll be able to read it all but I’ll go…

Peter: Yes.

Pastor Doug: …real quick. “Harden not your hearts as in the provocation and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness when your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My work. Forty years long, I was grieved with this generation and said, ‘It is a people that do err in their heart and they have not known My ways,’ unto whom I swear in My wrath, ‘they should not enter into My rest.”’ Now, what was your question on that verse there?

Peter: Yes, on the last “they shall not enter My rest.” Does that mean...?

Pastor Doug: Okay. You’ll find…

Peter: …that they were not saved?

Pastor Doug: Well, not necessarily because Aaron and Miriam died in the wilderness. They are saved but they did not live—neither did Moses—they did not live to cross over into the Promised Land. The Promised Land where they had to stop wandering was called their “rest.” All the time in the wilderness, they were wandering—no rest—they kept moving all the time, every, you know, few days the cloud would get up and they travel again. And so, the Promised Land was known as the “rest.” That’s why you look in Hebrews chapter 4, and it talks about that “I swore they would not enter into My rest because of unbelief” and that’s why some did not enter in.

But not all those that died in the wilderness were lost because we know many of them were saved such as… it talks about the five daughters of Zelophahad. Their father, I believe, was saved. It talks about Moses, Aaron, Miriam—we believe they’re saved—they all died in the wilderness. But they didn’t get to enter the rest. But spiritually, those of us who are unfaithful in this life, we want to make it to the Promised Land so there’s a spiritual analogy there that it does represent salvation. I hope that helps a little bit. Does that answer your question?

Peter: It does. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Hey, thank you very much, Peter and God bless you!

Pastor Dick: Let’s go to Oriole Grande, California. Chris is listening on the Internet this evening. Welcome, Chris!

Chris: Hello! How are you guys?

Pastor Dick: Great. And your question please.

Chris: Yes. I’ve been studying the parable of “The Ten Virgins” with my Bible study group. And they came to the conclusion that is a message of preparedness and I’m looking into that a little more to see if there’s something more that I could extract out of it.

Pastor Dick: Alright. Well, Chris is talking about Matthew 25 where you have the parable of “The Ten Virgins” and it’s something that happens—it’s describing the condition of the church just before Jesus comes because it tells that they give the announcement, “The Bridegroom is coming!” and then He comes. All of them slept and just before Jesus died on the cross, the apostles went to sleep in the Garden of Gethsemane. It’s often true at the critical moments when the great things are happening, the disciples sleep. When Jesus climbed the mountain with Peter, James, and John, the Bible tells us that they went to sleep when Moses and Elijah appeared—or just before Moses and Elijah appeared.

And so, in Laodicea in Revelation chapter 3, describes the condition of the church before Christ comes where they’re not aware of their need. But some of the virgins—five of them—have made a provision in advance by getting additional oil in case of a possible delay. You read in 2 Peter chapter 3, it talks about… in verse 8, “Many will come in the last days saying, “Where is the promise of His coming?” Doubting His coming. They don’t have a reserve because they say, “Oh well, people have been talking about the coming of the Lord for years and he’s not here yet. Those are the foolish virgins. They don’t have additional oils in there lamps. And this is a symbol for the Holy Spirit. It’s a big parable; a matter of fact, I’ve got a sermon you can listen to online at the Amazing Facts website. If you go to the TV Ministry part, on the ten virgins and I was tempted right now to launch in that sermon but that wouldn’t leave much time for other questions.

Chris: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So you just go to, negotiate through the different links and you’ll see where you go to the website, you can listen for free to, you know, the audio or watch the actual video on the Ten Virgins.

Chris: Okay.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Hey, thanks a lot, Chris!

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call, Chris. To College Dale, Tennessee. Brandon is listening to us this evening. Good evening, Brandon!

Brandon: Good evening. I have a question. in Ecclesiastes 5:4-5, if a person makes a vow to God and… like when I was younger, I made a vow to God that I would get rid of my computer and I just start off for like the longest time and just like recently, I talked… somebody talked about how God was wanting them to get rid of that item because it was a trouble in their life. I got rid of my computer and now I’ve… my friends have said, well, maybe it might not have been the best thing for me to do and I’m just curious as to what would have been the right thing?

Pastor Doug: Well, I don’t want to make light of the importance of keeping promises. You can read also in Numbers 30:2, “If a man vows a vow to the Lord or swears an oath to bind his soul with a bond, he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all the proceeds out of his mouth. If a woman also vows a vow unto the Lord and bind herself and if being in her father’s house in her youth and her father hear her vow and her bond where she has bound herself, her father shall hold his peace at her then she needs to keep her vow.”

I’m not going to read all these but basically, it was saying if a young person made a vow and the father could say, “Oh, they’re acting impulsively,” or even a wife—a husband—couldn’t know the vow of a wife. And the reason is that sometimes, you know, children, they make vows impulsively and the authority of that was to be recognized by the father and the husband. I don’t want to, like I said, I don’t want to subtract from a vow that you may have made and I don’t know the conditions and circumstances. It’s very important to keep your word.

Brandon: Yes.

Pastor Doug: If sometimes we do foolish things and suppose a person makes a promise to the devil and later repents, should they keep their promise to the devil?

Brandon: No.

Pastor Doug: Okay. Well then, why? Because it’s a very bad decision.

Brandon: Right.

Pastor Doug: God would much rather have us saved. If you make a foolish promise, sometimes what you need to do is ask the Lord to forgive you and repent. And there’s even, I think, there’s an offering in the Old Testament for if someone broke their vow, there was a sin offering for that.

Brandon: Oh!

Pastor Doug: And you may want to make a special sacrifice and do a sin offering and repent for making a foolish vow. You know, you may have a job that requires you to use a computer and it’d be kind of silly to live up to a youthful vow that really had no purpose to it. I don’t know what the circumstances were.

Brandon: Yeah, I understand.

Pastor Doug: You know what I’m saying? So, I don’t want to underestimate the importance of it. Jephthah made a vow that he’d offer his daughter. He didn’t want to do it but he offered her.

Brandon: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: So it’s an important thing to keep your word to the Lord. Okay?

Brandon: I see. Alright, thanks a lot, Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Thank you. God bless, Brandon.

Pastor Dick: Next to Bakersfield, California. George is listening on 3ABN. Hello George!

George: Hello.

Pastor Dick: And your question please.

George: Yeah. When Eve spoke with the serpent, did she know that Lucifer or Satan was in the serpent?

Pastor Doug: Good question. You know, I suspect she did not know. The serpent… and that’s why the devil took on the form of a serpent or he possessed the serpent. He was able to convince Eve that he had been a normal serpent and because of eating the forbidden fruit, suddenly, he had the ability—the supernatural ability—of speech that other animals did not have. And he said, “See? I ate this fruit and I’m speaking. You can eat it, you’ll be like God.” And if she had known it was the devil, she probably wouldn’t have been this easily deceived. But she did know God said, “Don’t do it,” and that’s the important thing because she recited right back to the devil, “God said in the day that we do this, we’ll die. We’re not supposed to do it.” She knew that. So whether she knew it was the serpent, I don’t think she did—not at first—whether she know it was Satan.

George: Okay.

Pastor Doug: I believe Adam and Eve have been warned by the Lord that there was a renegade angel on the loose and they needed to be on their guard. But I don’t think they were prepared for Satan to masquerade as a serpent. Alright?

George: Alright. Thanks.

Pastor Doug: Good question. Thank you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call, George. We want to go to Greenville, North Carolina and talk with Leonora. Good evening, Leonora!

Leonora: Good evening.

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Leonora: My question deals with the Sabbath. I’ve been reading in the nature of the Sabbath and I was talking to somebody about keeping the Sabbath and they made reference to a Scripture in Exodus where the Lords says that the Sabbath-keeping was a covenant between Israel and… Israel and their generation.

Pastor Doug: It’s actually in Deuteronomy I think you’re talking about.

Leonora: Okay, alrighty.

Pastor Doug: But, yeah, go… the Ten Commandments were in Exodus and Deuteronomy so you’re not far off.

Leonora: Okay. So, I’m wondering how do I combat with them with… because I believe we should keep the Sabbath. I’ve been reading and it’s been ministering to me and it’s wonderful. And I thank God for you but I just want to know to give answer.

Pastor Doug: Well, they’re misapplying something. If you read in Deuteronomy 5, after God gives a Sabbath commandment, chapter 5 verse 15, He says, “And remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt and the Lord your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and stretched out arm; therefore then God commands you to keep the Sabbath.” And some people say, “See, He just gave the Sabbath day to the Jews because of they were servants in Egypt.” No. Moses is saying—you read the next verse he’s saying—“Let your manservant and your maidservant rest as well as you and don’t forget you were a servant.”

Leonora: Right.

Pastor Doug: That’s why God gave you the Sabbath also for rest. But the Sabbath goes back way before… it goes to Genesis 2:2. There were no Jews in the world when God first…

Leonora: Right. I read that. Right.

Pastor Doug: …gave the seventh… and Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for…” not Jews, Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. Jesus could very easily have said, “The Sabbath was made for Jews,” but He didn’t. He said, “Man likened mankind,” and He… Jesus is pointing all the way back to Genesis.

Leonora: Okay, so what about the part where it says, you know, it was a covenant between, you know, for Israel.

Pastor Doug: Well, it…

Leonora: It’s a covenant.

Pastor Doug: It was a covenant. It was a covenant for everybody who wants to be saved. But let me give you something to think about, and this confuses people sometimes. I will submit to you than anyone who wants to be saved, any Christian out there who wants to be saved, is saved based on the New Testament covenant. Would you agree?

Leonora: Yes, I do.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Let me read this to you. You know what the new covenant says? “I will make a new covenant after those days, saith the Lord, with the house of Israel.” The new covenant is made with Israelites.

Leonora: Okay.

Pastor Doug: So Paul says in Romans chapter… is it 8 or 9? Pastor Ross is sitting here with us, too. Where he says grafted into the stalk? I think it’s in Romans chapter 8, it says that we are grafted into the stalk of Israel. So the New Testament church, they’re grafted into those covenants. So it’s not a dilemma that He made a covenant with Israel. Everybody saved becomes a spiritual Jew.

Leonora: Alright.

Pastor Doug: See, if we are Christ… tell you what, there’s a book we’ll send you for free that I wrote with another Jew—Steve Wohlberg—and it’s called, “Spiritual Israel.” It helps people understand the covenant.

Leonora: Okay.

Pastor Doug: But all Christians are really… we become spiritual Jews.

Pastor Dick: Leonora, call the resource number that we’ve been giving this evening. It’s 800-835-6747.

Leonora: Alright.

Pastor Dick: And ask for the book that Pastor Doug just…

Pastor Doug: “Spiritual Israel.”

Pastor Dick: “Spiritual Israel”…

Leonora: Okay.

Pastor Dick: …by Steve Wohlberg and they’ll send it out to you.

Leonora: Alright.

Pastor Dick: Okay?

Leonora: Okay. Thank you so much.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call. Alright. Pastor Doug, let’s go next to Los Angeles, California. We want to talk with Yvonne who’s joining us this evening. Good evening, Yvonne!

Yvonne: Good evening. How are you?

Pastor Doug: Good.

Yvonne: I want to make this quick. I know you have a lot of phone calls. In my class, the children… I teach Sabbath school in my church, and the children was debating, “Did Moses…” not Moses, “Did Pharaoh drown with the soldiers when Moses and the Israelites crossed the sea?” They said that he didn’t die… he didn’t drown. Maybe they’re probably going by what they saw on television.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. You know, I think that’s what they’re doing because the Bible tells us that they followed into the sea and it leads us to believe that Pharaoh led them and I even read somewhere. It may have been in biblical archaeology that the Pharaoh… they actually have the mummy of the Pharaoh that supposedly was the one who died in that incident. And they said that it appeared he died from drowning. Even from the mummy, I guess they’re able to determine that after all these years.

And you can read here, “And the waters returned,” Exodus 14:28, “the waters returned and covered the chariots and the horsemen and all the hosts of Pharaoh that came into the sea.” It says, “Pharaoh’s chariots and his hosts, He has cast into the sea!” There’s nothing that makes us think that he stood on the shore and watched. So, we’re inclined to think, “Yeah, he did die.” He was the principal enemy in that whole episode and he’s never mentioned after that again. No mention of him. So, at least you could think he did die.

Yvonne: Oh, okay. And what was..?

Pastor Doug: The movie, “The Ten Commandments,” and by the way, my mom was in that movie. I had to mention that. My mom was an actress. But that movie, “The Ten Commandments,” they have a whole episode that happens afterward with the Pharaohs doing all these things after because his army drowns and it’s not in the Bible.

Yvonne: Oh!

Pastor Doug: That’s Hollywood’s rendition.

Yvonne: Okay. And that was Exodus?

Pastor Doug: Well, a couple of verses we gave you. Exodus 14:28, and also we’ve got Exodus 15:4. There are several places where it talks about the Egyptians died and Pharaoh’s army. Hopefully that helps a little.

Yvonne: Oh, okay. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you, Yvonne.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call, Yvonne. To Kokomo, Indiana. Linda is listening on WJJD. Welcome Linda!

Linda: Yes, hi! I just recently heard of this radio station and just recently heard your preaching and it has really helped me a lot and…

Pastor Doug: Praise the Lord!

Linda: The verse in the Bible that says that women should not wear that which pertaining to man. How did that… how did that right..?

Pastor Doug: That’s Deuteronomy 22:5.

Linda: Yes. Does that mean that women should not wear pants?

Pastor Doug: Not necessarily because in the time of Christ, men didn’t wear pants. They wore robes. They wore these, you know, kind of like what you see the Indians in India wearing now. They’d either wrap themselves up in a loin cloth or they wore a robe. And I think what God is saying here is there needs to be a distinction and most cultures of the world, there’s a distinction between the clothing of the men and the women. And that’s not only for modesty’s sake, it’s important that children grow up knowing that men and women are different. And that those differences, instead of being blur, they should be clearly accentuated.

And there are pants that men wear; there are pants that women wear. And the idea for a Christian man or woman is whatever the styles are; every country in the world has different styles. Their Christians’ clothing should be clean, neat, modest—it doesn’t need to be flamboyant—and there should be a clear distinction between the clothing whether you’re wearing that of a man or woman.

My wife has jeans and she’ll use it when we’re working in the garden and I have jeans. And once after we got out of the wash without paying attention, I grabbed hers and tried to put them on. But I can tell you right now that women are not built like men. But there should be a distinction. The unisex clothing, the unisex hairdos—I think that’s all sort of a satanic plot to blur distinction and it contributes to the confusion and identity problems a lot of people are having.

Linda: Well, the women’s jeans and the men’s jeans look so much alike. How would you make a distinction there?

Pastor Doug: Well, they ought to be a little looser in different places.

Linda: In which to be modest?

Pastor Doug: Well, yeah, for modesty’s sake and maybe I better not keep this too far but some women probably shouldn’t wear pants. You know, everyone’s built a little different. And you know, you just need to be practical. But then, if you’re going to ride a horse or ride a bike or climb a mountain with a group, a dress is… you can get hurt. So, you know…

Linda: Well…

Pastor Doug: God expects us to be practical but modest.

Linda: Well, thank you so much. And you’re so very kind and your ministry has helped me so much. I normally don’t listen to preachers on the radio or the television but you’re an exception and I thank God.

Pastor Doug: Well, thank you. Hey, we’re nice people. Linda, there’s a free book. I actually wrote a book dealing with adornment and it talks a little bit about clothing. If you’d like a free copy of that, we’ll send it to you. And a matter of fact, I’m going to recommend—not my book—I’m going to recommend Joe Crews’ book which is called, “Colorful Cosmetics and Jewelry” and he talks a little bit about adornment and you ask for that. Pastor Dick will give you the number. We’ll send it for free.

Pastor Dick: Linda, that number is 800-835-6747; 835-6747. And call that number and the operators will take information from you and then send it out to you right away. We appreciate your cal. Pastor Doug, let’s go next to Fulsome, California. We want to talk with George who’s listening on KFIA. Welcome George!

George: Yes. Hello Pastor Doug and friend.

Pastor Doug: Hi!

George: Sir, yeah, I’m on a cellphone here. I was outside. I don’t have my Bible with me. But I’m using Paul [inaudible 00:53:06] interlinear translation. And I have a question about Thessalonians… 2 Thessalonians, I believe it’s… let me see. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 about the…

Pastor Doug: “Let no man therefore deceive you by any means for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed—the son of perdition.”

George: Yeah. The NIV uses interpretation, “the man of lawlessness.” I think Paul uses the word “ho-anthropos.” He definitely seems to think it’s a person.

Pastor Doug: Well, it is a person and that is a position. In other words, there is a person that holds his office where it talks about the man of sin. And some of his characteristics are that he sits in the temple of God in the place of God, and that’s the next verse. He opposes it… you know, this is a big study. There’s a book we’ve got we’ll send you called, “The Abomination of Desolation.” We don’t send that out very often. But it is…

George: Well, let me…

Pastor Doug: Would you like a copy of that?

George: No, that’s fine. I have… I think I have some of that material…

Pastor Doug: Okay.

George: …in my library. I just wanted to know if that is related to the abomination of desolation that Matthew and Mark used. They used… both used the expression, [inaudible 00:54:38].

Pastor Doug: Yeah.

George: I can work myself around…

Pastor Doug: It is… that’s alright. You don’t need to speak the Greek but that is the same principle. We’re talking about the same individual. This evil power that’s going to put himself in the place of God, this is the power Daniel refers to—the abomination of desolation—that is a blaspheming power and it’s also the beast’s power referred to in Revelation 13. And also, the beast full of names of blasphemy. And then, that’s what it means to put yourself in the place of God, showing yourself that you are God. You know, I hope that… we’ll just send George that book, Pastor Dick, “The Abomination of Desolation” by Gary Gibbs.

Pastor Dick: George, call the number, 835-6747, it’s an 800 number and we’ll send that book out to you if you’ll call those resource operators and ask for that book. Let’s get… try to get one more in, Pastor Doug. We’ll go to Ron who’s listening on WROL in Nassau, New Hampshire. Hello Ron!

Ron: Hi, how you doing?

Pastor Dick: Good. We have about two minutes so quickly.

Ron: Just a quick question on birth control. Me and my wife has been married nine years and we have two wonderful girls. And we’re really concerned on are we [inaudible 00:55:45] the will of God by using birth control?

Pastor Doug: Well, there’s nothing in the Bible that seems to indicate that using birth control that prevents conception… abstaining from intimacy is birth control. When you think about it, what that’s doing is preventing conception. But that is completely different than terminating a conceived embryo—baby—so birth control that prevents conception, there’s nothing in the Bible that seems to indicate that that is a sin. The Bible tells us, if you’re going to build a tower, sit down and count the cost before you build. And obviously, raising children is more important than building a tower.

Thank you for your question, Ron. And for our listening friends, we appreciate your support for this program. Also, as I’ve said, this is Pastor Dick’s—officially—his last night. He said that he’ll come back if we need some help in a pinch.

Pastor Dick: That’s right.

Pastor Doug: But he’s deserves a break and that’s more time for his missionary works and projects. If you like to drop Pastor Dick a line and tell him you appreciate his voluntary for ten years now, then let us know at Amazing Facts. And also, keep in mind, this is a faith ministry. We’d love to hear from you. You could send a note to Amazing Facts by going to the website. You can even send Pastor Dick a note there—we’ll forward those on to him. You want more information? Go to and also there at the website, you’ll find more about these programs—the archives of Bible Answers Live. You can listen to Dick for years to come. And remember, the reason we do this is because Jesus is the truth that will set you free!


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