The Long Way Home

Date: 02/17/2013 
PanAm captain, Robert Fort was flying passengers from San Francisco to New Zealand on December 4, 1941 when he received word that the Japanese has just attacked Pearl Harbor.
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Doug Batchelor: Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? PanAm captain, Robert Fort was flying passengers from San Francisco to New Zealand on December 4, 1941 when he received word that the Japanese has just attacked Pearl Harbor. An urgent call from Washington told them that at all cost they must protect the secret design of their Boeing clipper from falling into the enemy hands.

Therefore, they were ordered to fly to New York City the long way around the world from Australia and they were basically on their own. Securing the enemy zone and watching for aircraft, captain Ford and his crew of 10 headed the first class flight plane over Australia with few or no charts. They crossed several vast oceans: India, Arabia, and Central Africa and then flew 3083 miles to Brazil and made their way North and eventually landed at the Marine Terminal of what is now the Guardian Marine Airport in New York City on January 6, 1942.

The entire odyssey covered 31,500 miles and 210 hours of flying time. Some of it through war territories where they were fired upon. The clipper made 18 dangerous landings in places like the Nile, Congo Rivers through 12 different nations with top cruising speed of only 180 miles per hour. This epic detour became the longest continuous flight commercial airline and it was the longest circumnavigation of a plane near the equator.

Have you ever felt like taking a long way home? Stay with us friends, you are going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.


Jëan Ross: Welcome friends, we are very thankful you are listening in, whether you are in your living room, driving down the road. This is Bible Answer Live and we want to invite you to listen, pray with us. If you have a Bible question, call in with your Bible question. For the next 60 minutes or so we are going to be doing our best to search the Word together and answer Bible question that you might have. That number if you would like to call in that number is: 800 God Says. That’s 800- 463- 7267. We still have a couple of lines still open so one more time here is that number: 800- 463- 7267 brings you into the studio with your Bible questions. I am Doug Batchelor and I am Pastor John Ross. Good evening friends and Pastor Doug. Let’s begin the program with prayer.

Dear Father, once again I want to thank You we are able to study the Word together and we ask for Your blessing up on us this time. And we ask for Your blessing as we look in the Bible for truth for those of us who are listening wherever they might be. We ask in Jesus name. Amen!

Well, Pastor Doug, when you begin to read that fact at the beginning of that program, you begin to talk about the Pilot by the name of Ford who was originally going down to New Zealand. From San Francisco to New Zealand was supposed to be an eventful trip. That’s a long trip, especially in those days.

Doug Batchelor: Absolutely. I made that trip in an aircraft that goes 600 miles per hour and it is a long way.

Jëan Ross: And then you have to keep going west instead of being able to come back. What a long journey?

Doug Batchelor: You know this was an adventure that few people knew about because it happened in the midst of a war beginning. There were so many stories that it [inaudible 4:27] but for this crew to be able to pick their way around the world for what is supposed to be a quick trick. In fact, one of the engineers name Poindexter, he just joined the flight from his point from San Francisco to LA and he told his wife I am going to be home for dinner so get dinner warm. Then the other engineer got sick and he was told that he had to accompany them down to New Zealand. And not only New Zealand, they had to go to Australia, to India, cross Arabia, cross Africa and he told his wife to keep dinner warm. He was back in a month because he had to go back to New York a month later. So it is quite an amazing story.

It reminds me a little bit about the children of Israel when they left Egypt. That wasn’t supposed to take 40 years to get to the Promise Land, but they got detoured you might say and they had to take the long way around. Some of us might be wondering where is my life going. It seems like I am landing and flying without charts, what is God’s plan for my life. The Bible might give us tips how we can know God’s will. Do you feel friends that you have taken some detours and you don’t know how to get back on track? We have some free offers for you tonight if you are kind of flying and landing without charts.

Jëan Ross: The book is written by Pastor Doug Batchelor entitled Determining the Will of God. How do you know you are headed in the right direction? Your ultimate goal is to go home. And that is an heavenly home. If you call our resource line we will send you the book absolutely free. The number is: 800 835- 6747. Again that is our resource line. 800 835- 6747. And ask Determining the Will of God. That’s the name of the book and we will be willing to send it out to anyone who calls and ask for it.

Pastor Doug, are you ready to go to the phone lines?

Doug Batchelor: Let’s try it.

Jëan Ross: We have Mark who is listening on WITA from Knutsford, Tennessee. Mark, welcome to the program!

Mark: Hi, thank you for taking my call. Regarding this next pope coming up, I wonder if there is any quoting in Revelation and any quoting to St Malachi’s prediction that this pope will be the last one and the City of Rome will be destroyed during the reign of it.

Doug Batchelor: I have heard about that and I couldn’t really comment on St Malachi’s prediction. I would be out of my own. If you ask about what the Bible says, then I will try to give you a little perspective and then I will try to give you my opinion. But I have heard that from several people that when they foretold the pope they will count this pope or the next pope is going to be the last pope.

Mark: I first heard about this 30 years ago.

Doug Batchelor: If I could just jump in. there are also people who interpret the prophecy with historic view. And they believe that the seven heads from the deadly wound that you read in Revelation 17 also give a tip that this pope is the last or the second to last based on how they calculated it. I don’t think those are the things that are very exciting about what is happening. For me, when this pope was chosen, everybody knew that when you pick a pope that is pushing 80 years of age he was just a temporary pope. And they were bridging the time to groom somebody. It is not like picking a president who has got a term limit of 4 years or maybe 8 years if he gets reelected. But no more than that, just 4. But a pope who is a healthy pope if they get somebody who is in their 60s can be there for a decade. And it can really set the agenda for the church. And with everything going on in the Catholic church with some other troubles that they had with the PR and the sex scandals, I think they are really looking for a unifying charismatic figure like John Paul who had been pope for ???.

Mark: What a PR means?

Doug Batchelor: A public relations.

Mark: Okay, you think Benedict was kind of a fill in?

Doug Batchelor: I do believe when he was chosen, the Catholic church was very smart about looking ahead. They plan long term. And when you pick somebody who was 78 when he was chosen you know it was temporary. He had some very strong policies that he put forward. He was a strong Catholic theologian. And I think that also they were looking behind him for the person who could really be the charismatic figure. So I am sure there is a lot going on there that we don’t see.

Mark: Have you ever heard of a person name Peter the Roman cardinal that’s called Peter Kirkson but he is from Ghana.

Doug Batchelor: I think there is a list in Time Magazine that had some of the likely candidates and I think his name was on the list. So I am not going to speculate who it is going to be. I have heard everything from an American cardinal to people in South America, Africa or someone from Italy.

Mark: If Peter Kirkson gets elected, would that fulfill the Malachi’s prophecy of being name Peter the Roman?

Doug Batchelor: You know I don’t know. those prophecy kind of in the same caliber as Edgar Casey and those synonymous. I really like to stick to the Bible prophecies. So I couldn’t really comment on that. I guess we are going to find out before too long, won’t we? Yeah, I appreciate your call Mark And I wish I could give you a better insight on that. we are going to have to watch and see what happens but it is interesting. By the way friends, I thought it was very interesting when someone emailed it to me. At first I thought it was the pope. They said 3 days after the pope got nominated a lightning bolt struck the Vatican, and they had a picture of it. So I checked it out. I went on BBC and it sure did. I am sure it happens every few years when there is a storm but the timing was very unusual.

Jëan Ross: And later on last week there was a meteor which came and exploded over Russia. Interesting! There is a lot going on. We have Chris who is listening from Los Angeles. Chris, welcome to the program! Chris from Los Angeles you are on the air.

Chris: Thank you. Can you hear me?

Doug Batchelor: We are hearing you loud and clear.

Chris: I was just wondering. I have been going through a kind of a depression for the last month and a half. I don’t know but I was reading about what Jesus said in Mathew 30 about the unpardonable sin. And Mark Chapter 3. Can you guys hear me?

Doug Batchelor: Yes, we can hear you.

Chris: I was going through your community and the things that I saw. Just yesterday I was thinking God is good and why should I follow Him if He is not going to forgive me. And I am not sure I was wondering if it is directed to the Spirit of God. I was saying that it would be more of the sprit than demonic but I didn’t really mean it. it was out of anger that why can’t God forgive me. And since I have depressed for 1 month and a half, those are the words that came out of my mouth but now when I go to God and ask for forgiveness, is like He won’t. This sin is ruining my life.

Doug Batchelor: Are you wondering if you have committed the unpardonable sin?

Chris: Yeah, basically

Doug Batchelor: First of all, I have a book that I just wrote. And it is called Beyond Mercy What is the Unpardonable Sin? I will send you a free copy of see if it will encourage you. Most people think the worse sin they can think of when they talk about the unpardonable sin. Folks are wondering if God can forgive murder. Well, there are murders in the Bible He forgave. Can the Lord forgive adultery? Adulterers He has forgiven. Jesus in fact says all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men. The very fact you are calling my program me would indicate that the Holy Spirit is still working in your life Chris or you wouldn’t have any yearning or comfort that God can forgive you. Don’t give yourself credit for being a better sinner than God is a forgiver. The unpardonable sin is something that happens over a period of time where persons continue to grieve away the Holy Spirit. And you know if you come to the Lord and you are willing to confess your sins and say Lord forgive me and repent of your sins He will forgive you. If you look at people in the Bible like King Manasseh who was in his 50s sinning against God and killed some of his children and grandchildren. He was just a wicked King. He got thrown in jail in Syria and he prayed and God forgave him.

So don’t think you have gone so far so soon. You don’t sound like an old man to me and I don’t think that God can’t forgive you. There is still hope, Chris. You believe that?

Chris: There is an act of cursing and saying something bad about the Holy Spirit per say?

Doug Batchelor: That’s not what it is talking about. The sinning against the Holy Spirit is not where you blurt out terrible obscene as bad as that maybe towards God. That’s not what it means to blaspheme to the Holy Spirit. Blaspheme means to put yourself in the place of God. And it is not something to do and wanting to do something in the fit of rage and discouragement. It is something that happens over a period of time. It is like you got a callous on your heart so that you don’t hear the Holy Spirit speak to you anymore. So call our resource number. Pastor Ross is going to give you. And we will send you a copy of that book that is called Beyond Mercy What is the Unpardonable Son?

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 1 800 835 6747. And you can ask for the book Beyond Mercy. Again, that’s 800 835-6747. And the book again is entitled Beyond Mercy. And the next caller is Ryan and he is calling from Portland, Oregon. Ryan welcome to the program.

Ryan: Hey, how’s it going guys?

Doug Batchelor: Doing well, how are you?

Ryan: Good, I just want to say that you guys are awesome. And to John, you’re actually my relative. Your wife is my mom’s cousin. So I don’t know, I guess we’re all brothers though.

Jëan Ross: Well you get 2 questions tonight.

Ryan: So my question is regarding Acts 8:14-17. King James said Apostles in Jerusalem heard the Samarian had received the Word of God, they sent Peter and John to them who when they had come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For he has fallen upon none of them and can only be baptized in the name of our Lord Jesus. They laid hands on them then they received the Holy Spirit. My question is, the Holy Spirit sounds physical, like how do we receive the Holy Spirit. No one had ever prayed- act, to be honest. You know what I mean?

Doug Batchelor: I think so. There are different levels of filling the spirit. I think that we all know that Jesus had the Holy Spirit in his life- all through his life he was sinless. And the only way to be sinless is to have the spirit of God. The Apostles when Jesus called them, he breath on them on the last [inaudible 16:30] he received the Holy Spirit. But they didn’t received the real baptism on the spirit of filling of the spirit to the point of overflowing till Pentecost. And so these Disciples and Samarian, they’d been baptized, they accepted the Lord, they believed the teaching, they were forgiven. But the power of the Spirit for the life of ministry had not been given then. And when the Disciples laid their hands on them, they were just filled with the Spirit. Something like King Saul, when he was chosen as king. It says that the spirit came upon him. And there’s a special power, inner power of God’s love and guidance, and voice. And that’s going to happen again in the last days. That when in the Acts Chapter 2- early stages of the church. When God poured out His Spirit in the church, that refers to His former rain, the rain of the Spirit. It’s sprouts the crops, before Jesus comes back again and there’s going to be the latter rain of the Holy Spirit.

Ryan: It’s almost like acts of the good news, the gospel spreading throughout the world. As it spreads the Holy Spirit spreads as well.

Doug Batchelor: Well it began- yes, it began with them. As they went out preaching and teaching, they prayed for people not only to believe. They’ve been praying that they have the power of the Spirit to live the Christian life and then to minister to others.

Ryan: Okay, is there a Scripture that says how we received the Holy Spirit and is it just means we’re asking?

Doug Batchelor: Well quite a few, can we send you a book on it?

Ryan: Sure.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, we can give you a bit of Scripture right now but there’s a book called Life in the Spirit.

Jëan Ross: We’ll send that to you for free Ryan. If you call our resource line, the number is 800- 835- 6747, and the book again is entitled- Life in the Spirit.

You know Jesus said that if we’re not, if we can give good gifts to our children and we’ve been evil, how much more would God give the Holy Spirit to those who are asking. So we need to ask the Holy Spirit to believe that we will receive and he will give it to us.

Doug Batchelor: Absolutely. And thanks for your call Ryan.

Jëan Ross: The next call is Roberta. And she’s calling from South Carolina. Roberta welcome to the program.

Roberta: Good evening Pastor Doug and Pastor John.

Doug Batchelor: Evening. Get real close to your phone.

Roberta: Okay, thank you so much for your ministry, it’s such a blessing.

Doug Batchelor: Well it’s a blessing for us too.

Roberta: my question tonight is about Jesus. We know that He’s the creator and sustainer of everything. And when He died on the cross, when He was sleeping in the grave, did He exist- was the universe without a creator while He was in the grave?

Doug Batchelor: Well you know the Bible tells us that, God the Father created all things through God the Son. And so I wouldn’t say that there is no Creator. But once a person’s asleep did they cease to exist or they’re just sleeping? So when Christ died and He was sleeping in death in the tomb, I wouldn’t say that He ceased to exist. He was dead- I know this is kind of hard for us to comprehend, How could God die? That’s one reason we believe God as host of Father, Son and Spirit. But Jesus was off duty like everyone of you while He was in the grave. And when He got into a contest with the apostles one day after they were healing on the Sabbath or something, Jesus said, “My Father works then I work.” And so the Father is also sustaining life throughout the universe with the

Son and the Spirit. And so it’s like that there’s nobody left at the wheel. You know what I mean Roberta?

Roberta: He was sleeping but He still existed.

Doug Batchelor: You know when He died He said, “I commend everything into your hands Father.” And so God the Father was ??? in-charge even though Jesus is resting in the grave.

Jëan Ross: There’s this mystery the Bible refers to several mysteries. One of which is how God can take upon himself humanity and then live a life on earth and die for our sins. And yet still be God. Jesus really did die, it wasn’t just an illusion, He rose from the dead and He was still God. You know some of these mysteries probably even in heaven we’ll have to ponder them. Questions beyond our ability to really grasp and understand, but we’ll receive by faith.

Doug Batchelor: That’s right.

Roberta: yes, thank you so much.

Doug Batchelor: Alright, thank you Roberta. I appreciate your call.

Jon Ross: We have Mike who’s listening from Maryland on the internet. Mike welcome to the program.

Mike: Hi, good evening.

Doug Batchelor: Evening.

Mike: I actually opt to question about Holy Spirit. I was listening to previous callers trying to jot them down for information but my question was I guess in the Old Testament, I’m sort of studying about it in general versus the New Testament after Christ. Was the role of the Holy Spirit different in the salvation of the individual? In other words, I’ve been studying in the New Testament the Holy Spirit sort of convicts the of and He’s also empowering the individual to continue to feel obedience and love God. Was it the same for an individual in terms of the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament?

Doug Batchelor: Well there is- the Holy Spirit is definitely present in the Old Testament. Of course in Genesis, the Spirit of God moved upon faces of the waters right there in the creation. You see the Spirit, very eminent. And then in Genesis 6 it says, “My Spirit will not always strive with men,” meaning that the Spirit of God was striving with men for their hearts even back there before the flood. And you know, you can go through the Bible everything from the Spirit of the Lord came on to the various judges and prophets, Samson. You can read in Psalm 51 and David’s repentance prayer. When he says and verse 11, “Do not cast me away from your presence and please do not take your Holy Spirit from me.”

And so you see, a lot of evidence for the Spirit coming on people and them recognizing the Spirit of God. But the baptism in the Spirit to the percentage that you see in the New Testament, keep in mind, the meaning of Messiah is anointed. The word in Greek was Christos the anointed. And in Hebrew it’s the Messiah. And Jesus when He was baptized was anointed with the Holy Spirit- the Bible tells us. That’s why He was able to feel a special feeling of the Spirit unlike any other time in history at Pentecost to the Apostles. And there was such an emphasis on the power of the Spirit. You hear Paul and the Apostles writing about.

But the Holy Spirit has always been in everyone’s heart ever since Adam and Noah, Methuselah, Abraham, right on down to the patriarchs. It was God’s Spirit working in their hearts then to convict them of sin and save them just as it is today.

Mike: Okay, so God’s Spirit always strives with us men and the like for example like in Pentecost it was a special or a more powerful.

Doug Batcher: Special feeling. You know.

Mike: Right, for a purpose I guess.

Doug Batchelor: Right. There’s an Old Testament Analogy similar to Pentecost when Moses lead the children of Israelites out of Egypt. And it tells us that he prayed, and the spirit of Moses was placed on the seventy elders. Trying to remember that reference Pastor Ross but it talks about ElDad, MeDad. If you’ll look that up you’ll find it. Not only that, I’m also thinking about, the kind of glory that pillar of fire. Jesus said unless you’re born in water and Spirit, you can’t enter the kingdom of heaven. Israelites were baptized in the red sea, and they’re baptized in the pillar of fire. So they’re like the symbolism of the Holy Spirit there.

Jëan Ross: I think the reference referring to you is Exodus chapter 24. You can read the story about Moses calling for the seventy elders and a Holy Spirit comes upon them in power and.

Doug Batchelor: The prophecy.

Jëan Ross: The prophecy and they also provide leadership for the Israel and we find the same thing happening in the New Testament- when the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles. And they went out and preached the Gospel to the whole world at that time.

Doug Batchelor: You know it also makes me think about Elisha who got a double version of Elijah’s spirit. You know Mike I think you’d probably enjoy that book we offered just a moment ago, about Life in the Spirit. And we’ll be happy to send you a copy of that.

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800- 835- 6747, and the book again is entitle- Life in the Spirit. That’s 800- 835- 6747. Angeline is calling from Ontario, Canada. Angeline welcome to the program.

Angeline: Yes, hello there.

Jëan Ross: Yes, you’re on the air.

Angeline: Me?

Together: Yes.

Angeline: Yes, I have a question for Pastor. At the sermon today, the priest said that all living things- plants, trees, cats and dogs have a soul. I don’t know- this is not what I learned. I thought it only belonged only to human beings.

Doug Batchelor: What he might be talking about is that there’s a verse you’ll find in Ecclesiastic chapter 12, where it tells us- when and anything dies the spirit returns to God who gave it and the body- whether it’s a plant or tree, it decomposes- it turns back to dirt. That’s not using the term spirit in the way of a soul- like a human soul. That’s just talking about the breath of life. Dogs, cats, fish, worms, they have this breath of life- this essence of life that God gives all creatures. But that is not like an intelligent soul like a human. So I’m not sure exactly what you have heard today, but I would respectfully disagree if the priest is saying that plants have got a soul like a human does.

Jëan Ross: Well sometimes in Scripture, especially if he’s reading from King James. The word soul is used to describe the person. For example, I’m looking Revelation chapter 16:3 and it says, The second angel poured out a file upon the sea, it became his blood. And it says- every living soul died in the sea. So there is referring to, you know, the fish. And it’s referring to them as a soul. In other words, the soul is not always what you might think of it. In the Bible sometimes it just represents a person.

Doug Batchelor: Any creatures.

Jëan Ross: Or sometimes it’s any creature. And then sometimes you look at the context and talking about the soul of man. And Jesus made it pretty clear. He said, God notices a sparrow that falls. But you are more valuable than a sparrow. Jesus said, you are of more value than the sheep. And so, Jesus did not die for the sins of cats and dogs and fish and clams and shrimps and mosquitoes. He died for the sins of humans. And it’s the people that would be resurrected. He’s not going to resurrect, you know, your favorite daisy. It’s people that really have that kind of soul, that kind of spirit. And we do have a lesson that talks about death. We’ll send you a free copy Angeline if you’d like that.

You’re listening to Bible Answers Life.

The study guide that deals with the study of what happens when a person’s dies is entitled - Are The Dead Really Dead. And Angeline or Anyone wanted to learn more about the subject, you call our resource line, that’s 800- 835- 6747. And ask the study guide- Are the Dead Really Dead. 800- 835- 6747.

Doug Batchelor: And that talks about the soul, isn’t it?

Jëan Ross: It does, it’ll explain that. You know pastor we’re coming now on our break. The music playing in the background. One of the insights we have mentioned for a while, deals with just a whole lot of fantastic programming on the Bible. And it’s called, or

Doug Batchelor: Yes, folks who are enjoying this program just by listening, you can watch 24 hours a day on aftv. Take a look -


Doug Batchelor: We are back with our purpose and mission of doing our best to answer your Bible questions. If you have question about the blessed book- the Bible, the Word of God- give us a call. Couple of lines open- 800- 835- 6747. And will- no, I gave you the resource number. Sorry- 800- 463- 7297 brings you to the studio, only doing this for about 18 years. 800- 463- 7297.

My name is Doug Batchelor. My name is John Ross. And we go the phone line, we’ve got Miguel listening from New Jersey. Miguel welcome to the program.

Doug Batchelor: He was afraid to say half a sec.

Miguel: Hello?

Doug Batchelor: Yes, you’re there. Hi Miguel.

Miguel: Okay. Hi. Yes, my question is regarding Genesis 4:15.

Doug Batchelor: Okay.

Miguel: About Cain. Verse 16 when he says, so Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the Land of Nod east of Eden.

Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Miguel: Cain came with his wife and she’s [inaudible 31:34] and my question was- who was his wife? Where does she come from?

Doug Batchelor: Well we don’t know what her name was, but we can be almost certain that Cain took one of his sisters. You read in Genesis chapter 5, that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters besides Cain, Abel, and Seth. In the Bible chronology, typically does it through the patriarchs. I mean it’s through the men. You look at the genealogy of Jesus even 2000 years later and it’s tracing the genealogy of Christ through primarily the men mentioned the few of the primary Bible hero women.

Miguel: Right.

Doug Batchelor: But it was a patriarchal society. So not only did Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel. Keep in mind they were both very healthy, but they were probably very old and fruitful. God told them be fruitful and multiply- multiply doesn’t mean three kids. And if you live 930 years, you could multiply quite a bit if you- only 10 percent of your life you are fertile. Course Adam and Eve, they weren’t born as infants. They were born fully ready to multiply. And so they had probably had gobs and gaggles of kids. And Adam basically married his sister. And Abraham married Sarah who is his half-sister. It wasn’t forbidden to marry your sister until the time of Moses because of the genetic problems that became evident. Cain took one of his sisters. It’s kind of weird to us today. Back then when they came from God they were perfect- their genes were perfect, there’s nothing wrong with it.

Miguel: Right. So how come the Bible doesn’t mention daughters besides Cain and Abel.

Doug Batchelor: It does mention daughters.

Miguel: I mean it does mention- like you said on chapter 5, right?

Doug Batchelor: Yes, it tells the genealogy of Adam it says that Adam had sons and daughters.

Miguel: Right.

Doug Batchelor: So-

Jëan Ross: Genesis chapter 5:4.

Doug Batchelor: Yes. The days of Adam were 800 years after he had Seth and he had sons and daughters. So in just simple word saying, he had a lot more besides Seth. It didn’t say, a son and a daughter- sons plural, daughters- maybe given 50. We don’t know, so Cain probably took one of his sisters.

Jëan Ross: And of course he would be in real trouble if all Adam and Eve had was three sons.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, that would have sort of ended the race pretty quick.

Miguel: But I have this- it goes that, I understand the proverb that it says he had daughters and sons, right? More than one, but why it wasn’t mentioned in the beginning with Abel if Cain was mentioned. Why isn’t it said, why it said no daughters at that?

Doug Batchelor: That’s because in the Bible it often gives the headline things of the main story that you’re going to find them in the chapter. Headlines come first- it gives details afterward.

Jëan Ross: For instance God says, in the beginning He creates the heaven and the earth. He backs up about the details on how He did that. Then it says that God made man and woman in the sixth day. But then it backs-up in chapter two, and tells about how he made woman, and how Adam named the animals. So He always gives the details a little later. And that’s how the Hebrews wrote. So talk about Adam and Eve’s other children as a filler after the main story about Cain and Abel’s argument, but they certainly had daughters at that point.

I appreciate your question Miguel. Good thoughts, I’m sure the others are thinking.

Next call is Glen and he’s listening from New Jersey on WMCA. Glen welcome to the program.

Glen: Good evening Pastors, I appreciate your show. I have a question about- I hope you can answer it for me. Luke 1:34, Matthew 3:14 with Matthew 11:3. It appears that while in the womb and they came face to face, John the Baptist acknowledge [inaudible 35:44-46] later on, at Matthew 11:3, John he’s in prison, so after his active ministry and he felt compelled to [inaudible 35:55] to Jesus for the expressed purpose of asking Jesus whether or not he’s the Christ.

Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Glen: And whether or not, I just find that curious. I hope you can elaborate that for me. Thank you.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, I appreciate that. I think it occurs the Holy Spirit inspired John to say behold this is the Son of God who takes away the sin of the world. Even when John is in the womb of Elizabeth, he leapt it at the tidings. But the devil wanted to destroy John’s faith. And in that dungeon, in Herod’s palace- you know, it may have been months, he became discouraged, and John was not immune to the ideas that many Jews had. That the Messiah was going to be the Savior, not just from sin, but He was going to overthrow the Romans and restore Israel to national greatness and I think John just kept waiting for Jesus to do something more aggressive. And He meekly went from place to place. He healed people and He’d say, “Don’t tell anybody I healed you.” And John, his faith was being challenged in prison. So he sent this messenger to Jesus saying, “Are you the one or do we look for another?” and Jesus didn’t answer the messengers when they first came. He just said, “You just stand and watch.” And they saw the dead being raised, the blind’s eyes being opened, the deaf learning to sing, the lame walking. And they realized this is the power of God. He said, “Now you go back and tell John what you saw.” And they went and John was satisfied that, to be patient, to trust that this was the Messiah. Then Jesus right after the messengers left, He said, “When you went out to see John, what did you go out the wilderness to see? A reed shaking in the wind?” Because John was very strong in his convictions.

But to Christ there is no Prophet that was greater than John the Baptist. But even John got discouraged and doubted. Even Elijah, John was a type of Elijah. Even Elijah went out in the desert, afraid that he might die under a [inaudible 37:49] tree. Now that’s encouraging to me, because sometimes I get discouraged. “Well I’m not alone.” If John and Elijah had their moment of discouragement, we shouldn’t feel like we’ve lost hope and sometimes the devil challenges our faith. We all get tempted.

So good question Glen, I hope that helps a little bit.

Jëan Ross: You know Pastor I’m trying to think, don’t we have a book dealing with Elijah or the Two Witnesses.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, the Two Witnesses. The Two Witnesses talk about Moses and Elijah. And the Elijah message and how Elijah or John the Baptist was a type of Elijah.

Anyone wanting to learn more about that, give us a call at resource line- that’s 800- 835- 6747. And ask for the book The Two Witnesses. We’ll be happy to send that to anyone who calls and asks. We’ve got Martin who’s listening from Brooklyn New York. Martin welcome to the program.

Martin: Hello.

Doug Batchelor: Hi Martin, you’re on the air.

Martin: Okay, praise the Lord. My question is, in order to have kids you have to be married? What does the Bible say about that?

Doug Batchelor: That’s the plan. It will be- the Lord wants the children to grow up with a mother and a father that are committed to each other. And obviously they should make that commitment before they begin to be fruitful and multiply. And so- yes, marriage should come before children. You find in the Bible- that was the pattern. And I think that’s God plan today too.

Martin: Yes, praise the Lord.

Doug Batchelor: So trying to think.

Jëan Ross: Oh we got a book on marriage. You wrote marriage, divorce and remarriage.

Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Jëan Ross: I don’t know if you get into these.

Doug Batchelor: It doesn’t really necessarily- yes. I’m trying to think of verses. I mean, this is what you call a self evident truth in the Bible. And originally- basically, God married Adam and Eve. And then they told him to have children and you can talk and find out course with Zechariah and Elizabeth. It says they were married when- here’s a good one, when Joseph found out that Mary was pregnant before they had finalized their marriage. He thought about putting their way and then the Angel said, “Don’t do it.” because that was not the proper order- to have the children before the marriage. And so even in the very life of Jesus you can see that was a self-evident truth. Its marriage comes first in the family

Jëan Ross: Another verse you might like checking those file, Jesus said for this reason, the man should follow if father and mother. And should be joined into his wife- meaning they would get married. And then the two should become one flesh.

Doug Batchelor: So becoming one flesh comes after marriage?

Jëan Ross: That’s right. There’s an order there.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, by the way, I heard a pastor say one time that the idea- the two become one flesh is not only talking about coming together into marriage. When children are born, they contain the DNA of both mother and father in that child, the two parents have become one.

Jëan Ross: Right.

Doug Batchelor: And that’s also a miracle when you think about it. So there’s some verses for you Martin. Hope that helps a little bit and I appreciate your question.

Jëan Ross: We’ve got Dennis listening from New York, New York. Dennis welcome to the program.

Dennis: How are you doing pastor?

Doug Batchelor: Doing good. What’s your question for tonight? Get real close to your phone, we can barely hear you.

Dennis: I’m sorry about that.

Doug Batchelor: Okay. And you’re question?

Dennis: Can you hear me now?

Doug Batchelor: A little bit, yes.

Dennis: Hello?

Jëan Ross: Yup, you’re good.

Dennis: Alright. My question is on Revelation 18:26 , Alas the great city Babylon , that mighty city- now your judgment has come. Pastor Doug, I remember hearing one sermon you said that you don’t kind of believe that time of trouble alas being happy because of Elijah. Another sermon is you’re a believer of this sermon you call and you said probably over 40 day period because if you read Exodus, Israelites were redeemed from Egypt. [inaudible 42:05-08] probably stated that happened a little over a month.

Doug Batchelor: Right.

Dennis: So [inaudible 42:15]

Doug Batchelor: Well let me explain, there are two parts at the time of trouble. There’s two parts to the end of tribulation as what we call the great time of trouble. That’s when the seven last plagues are poured out. And then before that you have the small time of trouble. Now, for everybody listening, Dennis heard me just musing out loud- I don’t know how long these things are going to be.

Dennis: Right.

Doug Batchelor: I just said that - you know, you might find that the small time of trouble when people can’t buy or sell and there’s going to be persecution. That may be the same time the persecution you find from the time of Jesus. One he died on the cross until AD 34, Elijah’s famine. The three and a half period appears quite a bit in the Bible. So I just pulled that out and said, oh that will be possible.

But when it comes to the great time of trouble, it’s all the plagues come within a day in the Bible. That means they all come within one year’s time, more specifically, you find that the trials ??? went through, the trials the Israelites went through, that happened in a matter of weeks. Think about how long will the world last? When the rivers and ocean turn to blood, and men is being scorched with great heat, and terrible source. And you look at the plagues, the seven last plagues and that’s where Jesus said, “Accept those days, be sure no flesh would be saved.” So I thought the short time of trouble or the little time of trouble- they call it. that might be 3 and a half years- I don’t know that. I just said that and I anticipate the seven last plagues are going to happen pretty quickly because the planet’s going to implode. Men, imagine that meteor that came down on Russia this week. What if those things are fallen over planet. Bible says hail stones about a [inaudible 44:07], about a hail- a meteors. Or whatever they are, tumbling the planet. It’s going to be pretty bad back then.

So that was just a theory I kind of said out loud.

Dennis: Okay.

Doug Batchelor: I cannot give you other than- like I said some of my personal opinions on that. I appreciate that Dennis.

Dennis: Being a Christian, it’s scary. Just wondering how long that time will be [inaudible 44:33-35].

Doug Batchelor: Oh, I’m not scared of that. I’m not scared at the time of trouble. You know, the only thing that troubles me is I want to be faithful today. If I am faithful now in the little things, I’ve trust God will keep me through that time. People worry about what will they do during the time of trouble. If we’re being faithful in the little temptations today, we’ll be faithful then. Sometimes we think that if we got food stored away, we’ll make it through the time of trouble. We need the Word of God store away in our minds, to get through that time.

And thanks for your question Dennis.

Jëan Ross: We’ve got Jim listening from Chattanooga Tennessee. Jim welcome to the program.

Jim: Hello. Good to talk to you again.

Doug Batchelor: Likewise.

Jim: I was wondering, they’re talking about this on the news and the stuff about the economic collapse. And then I read in the Bible or two where, those who are sick save their life or lose it. Those that lose their life will save it.

Doug Batchelor: Right.

Jim: In times of trouble like that, are we supposed to protect our families or loved ones or are we supposed to.

Doug Batchelor: Well let me read this for our friends who are listening. And you’re I think may be driving down by the road right now, I’m not sure.

Jim: Yes.

Doug Batchelor: But in Luke 9:24, Jesus said, “Whoever seek to save his life will lose it. But whoever lose his life for my sake, the same will save it.” He’s not talking about dying to protect your family. Jesus is saying, if we seek to preserve our lives to live them selfishly, you’ll lose everything. But if you will let go and say, “I surrender my heart and my life to you Lord.” That’s when you find life. So it’s really the struggle of will I do my will or His will. And your question about, you know, does not mean to just let someone in your house and kill you. that really is not what He is talking about.

Jim: Oh okay.

Doug Batchelor: He’s really talking about if we release our lives into His hands and trust our lives to Him. If we let go and say, “Lord, I give up. I’m surrendering all to you. I’m taking up my cross to follow you.” That’s when you find life. But if you say, I’m going to cling to my life and try in milk and ring all the pleasure in this life from myself as I can. In your attempt to live by yourself, you’ll die and lose everything. That’s really what this is. Is that what you understand?

Jëan Ross: Absolutely. You know, the Apostle Paul speaks for himself daily. Another which is surrendering His life to Christ daily- everyday. And that’s what it is, to lose our life- to trust our life to Christ. Not trying to do our own things or wanting to somehow get ahead in life, but trusting in the Lord.

Doug Batchelor: Absolutely.

Jim: Thanks a lot.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, we’re good. I appreciate your call and I hope that helps a little bit.

Jëan Ross: The next call is Lee. And Lee is listening from Carolina- Lee welcome to the program.

Lee: Thank you. Good evening.

Doug Batchelor: Evening.

Lee: My question is dealing with the days of Noah. I wanted to know if the earth was populated like maybe millions of people. And I mean, cause the whole earth was wicked. If so, how does everybody hear the message and have an opportunity into the ark or be saved.

Doug Batchelor: Well, if you go back to couple hundred years. There were some evangelist, like John Wesley, George Whitfield, that with nothing but their voices. No electronic amplification and a horse. A lot of the civilized world heard about them in their lifetime. And they lived, they preached maybe 40-50 years. Noah preached 120 years and while they may have been millions of people, they were circulating. And so, it’s not like they all stood there and heard him preach. No, he was probably circulating among them, they had to buy materials and it was a 120 years, he probably just slept under the shadow of the arc construction all day long.

Lee: That’s what I thought. I was wondering, just to make sure.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, he circulated and he shared. And others were passed it on and the word got out about this. First I think everybody was excited and they thought, “Hey, he’s right.” But as time went by and nothing happened, their excitement cooled off and while their patient is being tested pretty soon only Noah’s family believed the message.

Lee: Okay.

Doug Batchelor: God’s very patient but sometimes we become impatient.

Lee: That’s right. Thank you so much.

Doug Batchelor: Thank you Lee. I appreciate your call.

Lee: You and the ministry is such a blessing.

Doug Batchelor: Well keep us in your prayers, we appreciate you calling.

Jëan Ross: We have Jason who is listening from South Carolina. Jason welcome to the program.

Jason: Hey guys, enjoying the program. Just to put question or two. Is drinking a sin without getting drunk and how do you feel about joining the lottery. And I appreciate your answers.

Doug Batchelor: Well thank you very much Jason. Well first, nothing wrong with drinking if we’re talking about water. I think you’re talking about drinking alcohol. And there is a free book I’ll send you if- I know you just called in for your question. But if you’re still listening, we’ve got a book called Alcohol and the Christian that I wrote a few years ago. Just goes through all through the scriptures and principles on that subject. We’ll send you a free copy. But I don’t believe that the Bible supports Christians drinking fermented wine. And I’m not saying there are no Christians out there that may be drink a little bit of Alcohol, but I think they shouldn’t. Because it is an addictive drug that- you know, one out of seven people drinks becomes an addict. I think that something by example, Christian should not support.

There’s a lot of discussion very politically volatile discussion about gun control right now. And you know it’s terrible when we hear about the cities were people are dying various gun gang violence or shootings. But whenever I hear that, what’s come into my mind is, does anyone have an idea how many people die everyday in alcohol related murders and accidents. It’s about 50 times higher, that’s more than that. Probably a hundred more times higher than what’s happening from guns. But because people like to drink especially in Washington, you’re not going to hear them talk about that anymore. If you like the probation thing they gave up on. So alcohol is a real curse to our society. And then you asked about the lottery.

Jëan Ross: We’ll go back to lottery. You know, when somebody buys alcohol, of course you’re supporting the industry. And can we really support as a Christian things that the beer industry or the wine industry really stands from. Just look at the things that they support, the things that they are behind. So as a Christian I think like Pastor said not only is it by example but we don’t want to be a stumbling block to anybody.

Doug Batchelor: Right. And then the lottery, you know it’s really gambling. The Bible talks about that the, you know, we should try and not make haste to get rich. And gambling and lottery is all about getting rich quick. And usually it’s the expense of other people who have lost money. And so I don’t think Christian should get involved in gambling. And anything that’s addicting like that, not only is alcohol addicting. I think we all know people get addicted to gambling. And some people have lost something in their family, their retirement, in gambling. Just because it’s a government sponsored, and government gets taxes from the alcohol, and they get a lot of money from lotteries. Doesn’t mean a Christian should support it. I appreciate your call, your questions, and we got lined up. We’ve two more.

Jëan Ross: Alright we’ve got Jerry who’s listening from Michigan. Jerry welcome to the program.

Jerry: Hello.

Doug Batchelor: Evening. Get real close to your phone and your question?

Jerry: Yes, I’m interested in knowing about Adam and Eve. I heard you talking about it last week. And in Matthew 27:57, in Mark 15:42-43 it should like they, when after the body, after even began.

Doug Batchelor: Well you mean when they came early in the morning? To the tomb you talking about?

Jerry: No, this is when they’ll bring him to the tomb of Nicodemus.

Doug Batchelor: Yes they were the tomb of Joseph of [inaudible 53:10]. Yes.

Jerry: And Joseph [inaudible 53:11] Yes. You have that verse right there?

Doug Batchelor: Well I’ve got Matthew 27 what did you say 57?

Jerry: Yes. Could you read that please?

Doug Batchelor: And when the evening was come there came a rich man of [inaudible 53:22] his name was Joseph. The word even there doesn’t mean sunset. It just means the sun was going down. It’s like twilight. You know the time before sun down, when things get a little darker and the sun’s starting to hover in the Western sky. That’s called even. It’s even as a long term, it doesn’t mean sunset has happened yet.

Jerry: Then in Leviticus 23:32, if you read about that, it seems like a ceremony of Sabbath we’re talking about even to even.

Doug Batchelor: Yes.

Jerry: And if you read Matthew 20, it talks about the vineyard and you can note that about 6 o’clock.

Doug Batchelor: Well if you can you- [inaudible 53:59-54:02] when the sun had set, they brought all the sick to Jesus and maybe.

Jëan Ross: And maybe Mark chapter 1 or 2 I think- let me check.

Doug Batchelor: Let me check.

Jerry: Mark 1:32, you said last week.

Doug Batchelor: Okay, that might be the one- yes. And so they understood that the days began and ended not just at Sabbath but every day. They’re measured by.

Jëan Ross: Yes that’s chapter 1 versus 32. It says that even when the sun had set, they brought to him all that was sick.

Doug Batchelor: So are you wondering if it is the same thing as sunset?

Jerry: Well if you read that verse 15:42, it sounds like they were doing, putting Jesus body in the tomb after the Sabbath began.

Doug Batchelor: Well actually they wanted to finish embalming His body, but the Sabbath was about to begin so they stopped and came back Sunday morning. Because they didn’t feel it would be appropriate to keep doing it on the Sabbath. So and then of course in Luke it tells after the Sabbath has passed. And a matter of fact it says they went home and kept the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Jëan Ross: So in other words even if it’s more than just sunset. It’s a little bit before sunset. And it includes sunset.

Doug Batchelor: Yes, absolutely. Yes, you can read there in Luke chapter 23 verse 56. Says they returned and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath according to the commandment. And then on the first day of the week they came early in the morning to the tomb. So they stopped embalming His body before the sun was down.

For more information on that one Jerry, we’re running out of time. Go to God bless friends. Don’t forget to go to, lot more information there till next week.

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