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Most Expensive Dye in the Bible

Scripture: Daniel 11:40-45, 1 Timothy 3:1-2, Revelation 4:1-11
Date: 02/24/2013 
Tyrian purple also known as royal purple or imperial dye was a very rare ancient natural dye. This costly substance came from...
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Doug Batchelor: Hello friends, this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Tyrian purple also known as royal purple or imperial dye was a very rare ancient natural dye. This costly substance came from the secretion produced by Murex sea snails that are found along the coastal rocks around the Eastern Mediterranean.

Tyrian purple gets its name because it was popular among the Phoenicians around the city of Tyre. The dye was greatly prized in antiquity because the purple color was very hard to produce and did not easily fade in fact it became even brighter with weathering and sunlight.

In nature the snails secrete a mucus substance when they are crushed, it's discovered through testing that it required 12,000 snails and they would only yield 1.4 grams of the pure purple dye, just enough to color the trim of a single garment. That means approximately 60,000 Murex snails were required to make one pound of Tryian purple. This is why this imperial purple was traded by the ounce, fetching more than gold or silver because Tyrian purple was so very expensive textiles in this color were status symbols tightly controlled in Byzantium.

The production of Tyrian purple was eventually subsidized by the government which restricted its use for only imperial silks. That's why a child born to a reigning emperor was said to be born in the purple. Did you know the Bible tells us there is another dye even more expensive than Tyrian purple? Stay with us friends we're gonna learn more, as amazing facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross, good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug as usual let's start the program with prayer. Dear Father once again we ask for Your blessing upon this program. We recognize that the Bible is Your book and we ask for guidance as we study it this evening. Be with those who are listening wherever they might be, for we ask this is Jesus name. Amen

Doug Batchelor: Amen

Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about the incredible lengths that people had to go back in Bible times to get the color purple and of course it was used for dying fabric more than anything else and typically the royalty or someone of great wealth was able to wear purple.

We have some examples in the Bible of a woman by the name of Lydia. The Bible says in the book of Acts that she was seller of purple and then we also have the account of where they put a purple robe on Christ and they mocked him calling him a king.

Doug Batchelor: That's right

Jëan Ross: And yet there is another dye mentioned in the Scripture, what's that?

Doug Batchelor: Well you know with the snails, they've made the purple out of it. It fooled people because when you crushed the snails at first it's just white but amazingly as you watch out of the white these glands emitted this little stream of purple and it's hard to imagine something red dying something white but there's actually a dye in the Bible and it can take something red and turn it white or take something filthy and make it clean.

I think you know where I’m heading friend. You can read in Revelation 7:14-15, speaking of this great multitude around the throne of God, John asks the angel who they are and the angel says these are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation and they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

You'd never think that you would make something white by washing it in blood but the blood of Jesus purifies, it dyes things white you might say. It purifies our hearts, our minds and that's what these white robes represent, that our lives become righteous through Jesus.

That dye is much more expensive than Tyrian purple, that dye that came from the veins of Emmanuel cost the life of God's Son and so the most expensive dye in the Bible is the one that washes away our sin and covers it all and that's the blood of Christ and friends you can apply that blood, you can have your sins washed away.

Do you know how? Would you like to know how? We've got a free offer tonight that's gonna tell you about it.

Jëan Ross: We have a book entitled "The High Cost of the Cross" we'll send it to anyone who calls and asks for it. Again the name of the book is called "The High Cost of the Cross" and even though Pastor Doug that dye, the blood of Christ cost so much it's free to those who receive it by faith.

Doug Batchelor: That's right

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747, ask for the book “The High Cost of the Cross" and we'll be happy to send that to you. Again the resource line is 800-835-6747

Doug Batchelor: and the book is free

Jëan Ross: And the book is free, that's right. If you’re close by your computer you can also join us online here at live.amazingfacts.org, just live.amazingfacts.org that's the live stream from the studio this evening and you can join us online. Alright we're getting ready to go to the phone lines. Our first caller this evening is Loretta and she's listening from Savanna Tennessee. Loretta, welcome to the program.

Loretta: Yes, good evening. Thank you pastors

Doug Batchelor: Evening

Loretta: I've got a question from Leviticus

Doug Batchelor: ok

Loretta: On the Day of Atonement, how many sacrifices did the high priest offer?

Doug Batchelor: Well in Leviticus 16 where it talks about the Day of Atonement, there were 2 young goats that were chosen and one was called the Lord's goat and the other one was better known as the scapegoat. The scape goat was not sacrificed; it was carried out of the camp and released in the wilderness.

Tradition tells us, this is not in the Bible but tradition tells us among the Jews that they want to make sure that, that goat did not come back because it would be a very bad omen if it came back bearing the sins of the people to the camp and so sometimes supposedly the fit person who took this scapegoat out would kick it off a cliff or something but it doesn’t say that in the Bible but there were 2 goats that were chosen.

Both of them were bearing sin one was sacrificed, the Lord's goat and then you had the scapegoat, that was the principle but they also still had I think a morning and evening sacrifice on the day of atonement so that was part of the regular..

Loretta: My understanding was that the priest offered a bullock for his family and himself and then he offered the sacrifice for the people.

Doug Batchelor: That's Correct and that would be verse 3, I thought you were talking about on the Day of Atonement sacrifices were principally for the 2 goats but yea if you look at verse 3

Loretta: okay, no no, actually my question surrounds how many times the priest went in and out of the most holy place. My understanding is that he went in with a sensor to dull the Shekinah glory, then he offered the bullock for himself and his family and then the goat for the people

Doug Batchelor: Well when he first went in with the sensor he went to the holy place, he didn’t go into the most holy place which is where the arc was except once

Loretta: But when he offered the 2 sacrifices did he have to go in twice for that?

Doug Batchelor: Not to the holy of holies, for our friends that are listening Pastor Ross

Jëan Ross: Yea. Just to mention that on verse 3 in Leviticus chapter 16, it says Aaron shall come into the holy place with the blood of a young bull as a sin offering and of the ram as a burnt offering. So these are the sacrifices for Aaron and his family for the priesthood

Loretta: Those were in the holy place, not the most holy place?

Doug Batchelor: Only the holy place and then with the blood of the Lord's goat, the high priest would take that into the most holy place

Loretta: So he didn’t go into the holy place with the sins, just the holy place?

Doug Batchelor: Correct

Loretta: Now in verse 19 is that where it takes about the censor?

Doug Batchelor: Well let's go there real quick, it says here, we'll read this o you "Then he shall sprinkle some of the blood with blood on it with his finger 7 times cleanse it and consecrate it from the uncleanness." This is the horns of the altar

Loretta: Okay that's not the verse I’m referring to, I’m sorry.

Doug Batchelor: You know we have a lesson that we can send you on this, if that would be ok Loretta. It's a lesson that specifically deals with the sanctuary and it's services and it's called "God drew the plans" cause we're getting into some pretty deep stuff and I’m afraid a lot of our friends who are listening right now, they might need to read Leviticus 16 for everybody to really appreciate what you and I are talking about. So why don’t you let us send that to you, it's called "God drew the Plan" it's free.

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747 that's a study guide entitled "God drew the plans" 800-835-6747 that is our resource line. Our next caller is Scott and he's listening in Oregon on KPD2. Scott, welcome to the program.

Scott: Hello

Doug Batchelor: Hi Scott, Welcome

Scott: Okay, so my question, I’m asking at what point after Satan rebelled was he cast down to earth and I think it's safe to assume that he was in rebellion before the creation at least of this planet so I guess what I’m wanting to ask is, was it before or after the fall of man.

Doug Batchelor: Well I think that Satan was cast down to earth permanently after the fall of man. Satan's rebellion began, the way we understand the Bible, before our world was made. That's why God had to warn Adam and Eve as soon as the world was made to be on their guard against the villain and that serpent was possessed by the devil fairly soon after creation because Adam and Eve hadn’t even had any children yet.

So we are pretty safe in assuming the devil's rebellion began eons before, who knows how long before our world was made but Satan after he was cast out of heaven, he was later restricted to the earth at the time of the cross and Jesus even said I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Jëan Ross: You know in Revelation chapter 12, there is this war that's described taking place in verse 7. There's war in heaven, Michael and his angels fight with a dragon and the dragon and his angels fought and it says Satan was cast out of heaven at that point but then it also says there is a casting down of the dragon at the time of Christ's death. Verse 10 says I heard a loud voice in heaven saying now salvation and strength in the kingdom of our God has come and it speaks about the death of Christ there.

So there's 2 casting, the one is a casting out of heaven and the other is the casting down which happens at the cross. Prior to the cross it appears as if Satan had access at least limited access to heaven because we read about a meeting happening in the book of Job and Satan showing up representing Earth

Scott: Okay, that's logical to assume that's actually the case but I guess what I’d really want to know is how would you explain that to somebody who may say well what chance did mankind have from the onset, there was this evil being lurking around the garden of Eden or whatever. How would you explain it in context of that?

Doug Batchelor: Can we recommend that you look at a video that will be free? Because the answer to that question, it's a very important question, it's so important that we spent about 3 years producing a video called "The Cosmic Conflict" that talks about the war in heaven, it talks about how innocent people are born in this world with our DNA's affected by sin.

If you just go to YouTube, it's up there and just type in cosmic conflict and you can look at it. I think they have it broken up in 2 or 3 segments. That explains the fall of Lucifer and all the Scriptures are given in the DVD

Jëan Ross: We also have the study guide that you’re welcome to call and we'll send it to you. It's called "Did God create a Devil" It talks about the fall of Lucifer and how he had access to the earth and how Adam and Eve fell.

All the Scriptures in there now I think you'd find are very interesting. The number to call and ask for that study guide called "Did God Create a Devil" is 800-835-6747, again 800-835-6747 and you can ask for the study guide "Did God Create a Devil"

Doug Batchelor: Thank you Scott, hope that helps a little

Jëan Ross: We have Fred who is listening from Stanford Connecticut. Fred welcome to the program.

Fred: Oh, yes I wanted to ask you about Mark 16:17-18. Are those evidences of being baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Doug Batchelor: Are you talking about when a person, picking up serpents?

Fred: Yes

Doug Batchelor: Well yes and no. You know there are churches even in North America, I think there are not many left in Kentucky but there used to be. Where there are snake handlers and someone who tries to prove that they’ve got the Holy Spirit by going out proactively picking up snakes is not what the Bible was talking about. Paul who had been filled with the Holy Spirit picked up a snake by accident when he was gathering wood for a fire.

It bit him and it didn’t do him any harm because God's Spirit was in him and he was protected, that's different than tempting the Lord and looking for snakes and then it said if you drink any deadly thing it won’t harm you. Now there were people that were trying to poison the disciples, they did a number of things to try to kill them but there's no record I know of in the new testament of an attempted poisoning.

There's one example in the old testament where evidently someone tried to poison the Pharaoh and that's why the baker and the butler where in jail with Joseph and later they found out that it was the baker who did it. The baker that tried to poison him and he was executed.

No example in the New Testament but we're assuming that was pretty common in the Roman Empire. Matter a fact there's a lot of intrigue among the emperor’s; they were dispatched with poisoning, Cleopatra and others.

Jëan Ross: you know I think there is also something added to this verse that we don’t want to miss. In verse 17 in Mark chapter 16 Jesus is talking about casting out devils and in Scripture a serpent at times represents Satan and his foe and so here Christ is promising power to his disciples that they’re gonna be able to cast out devils and they need not fear demons or the devils because the Spirit of God is dwelling within them

Doug Batchelor: You know Fred we've got a book that just came out and I worked on this for several years, it's a study based on John chapter 3 and it's called "The Savior and the Serpent" cause just before John 3:16 where it talks about God so loving the world, Jesus said as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so the Son of Man would be lifted up and people wonder what does that mean and it talks about the serpent ant the sign of the serpent.

If you'd like a free copy of that we'll send it to you it's called "The Savior and the Serpent

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747 and the book "The Savior and the Serpent" we'd be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks for it. Again 800-835-6747. We have James who is listening from New York on WMCA. James, welcome to the program.

James: Thank you for taking my call and my question was about the cross and the question is almost heretical but we bow down and we ask for deliverance from the cross and so forth and I realize the cross represents the sacrifice of Christ but we've made the material cross the object of our prayers and our kneeling down and so forth. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Doug Batchelor: Yea that's a good question. Appreciate it. You know in the second commandment there the Lord is pretty clear and He says you shall not make an image of anything in the heaven above or the earth beneath or the water under the earth, you shall not bow down they self to them or serve them and while we know that the cross is something of a logo and I don’t mean to use that disrespectfully but it’s a symbol of Christianity.

You know if you see a Jewish star you think Judaism and the Muslims have their icon and many religions have symbols and the cross, you'll see it on tombstones. Soldiers get a stamp of a cross on their ID tags once to identify what is the religion but it's not to be worshipped, God never intended that we should really pray to it and some people think and I know they mean well that wearing a cross somehow means they’re a Christian but Jesus didn’t really say wear the cross He said bare the cross

James: Whenever we have a troubling situation in our denomination we're asked to do the cross and pray and we ask for the cross to deliver us and so forth and I think that's heretical or adulterous

Doug Batchelor: Well you’re right, that is bordering on idolatry because we're making an intangible object a thing of worship or reverence. An example in the Bible is when God told Moses to make this bronze serpent. It was just to symbolize that they would be safe from the power or venom of the serpent.

Well years later they were burning incense to this thing and God told King Hezekiah crush it, it's just a piece of brass that people had begun to worship this symbol as though it was some kind of icon or something to be revered. He just ground it up into powder and he said you’re not supposed to worship those things and really when we start praying to concrete, plastic or wood crosses we've got to be careful that borders on idolatry so you’re on the right track.

Hey James if it's ok with you we'd like to send you our free study guide called "Written in stone" it talks about the 10 commandments and that commandment in particular

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747 that's a study guide entitled "Written in stone". That number again is 800-835-6747. We have Charles who is listening from Toronto Canada. Charles, welcome to the program.

Charles: Thanks for taking my call Pastors

Doug Batchelor: Thanks for calling. How can we help you Charles?

Charles: Can you guys hear me?

Doug Batchelor: Yea, Loud and clear. You there?

Charles: Hello?

Doug Batchelor: Yea we hear you Charles, can you hear us?

Charles: Hello?

Doug Batchelor: Well it sounds like Charles as much as we want to take his call he can’t hear us

Charles: Hello

Doug Batchelor: Alright we better go on and go on to the next caller

Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Dawn and she's listening from New York, New York. Dawn welcome to the program

Dawn: Thank you, I guess it's more of an opinion well I guess I want to ask. The origins of Christmas and Easter are same, we just kinda changed the definition of it and I know I read somewhere in the Bible, I don’t remember exactly where but it said try not to incorporate pagan holidays and specifically said about bringing a Christmas tree or a pine tree into the home and decorating it. Should we be celebrating these holidays?

What is your opinion on that?

Doug Batchelor: Very good question and of course in about a month Easter will be here, matter of fact when Easter comes I’ll be in Manila, The Philippines completing a series of gospel presentations and that is one of the countries of the world that makes the most of Easter.

I don’t know if there's anywhere in the world that does more on Easter than the Philippines. They actually periodically have people that act out crucifixion, I mean they really crucify themselves and they go down the street sometimes and people would get flogged till the bleed.

They take the holiday pretty seriously. Easter and you'll find the word I think once in the King James version, that's Act's Chapter 12, it really should be translated Passover in that verse. Easter is the holiday that coincides with the Passover which is the time of Christ's death. While December 25, we're all fairly certain Jesus was not born December, we know He was born some time but it wasn’t December.

It is true that Easter falls around the same time of year when Christ was Crucified and if people are gonna remember the sacrifice of Jesus, you know there's no command to celebrate a particular date but if a Church is going to remember the sacrifice of Jesus and His resurrection, I think that's wonderful to commemorate that. If people are going to fall into the Pagan trappings that also go along with Easter, there's a lot of things were spring festivities that happened during the same time of the year.

So that's how the Easter bunny and the Easter eggs and a lot of other things came into the church at the same time. During the dark ages the church thought one way to reach out to the Pagans was to try to embrace a number of their Pagan symbols hoping to make Christianity more attractive but really what they did was compromise some of the Christianity.

Anyway we have a free book that we can send you talking about baptized paganism Dawn that has more information on that an hopefully that will be a blessing

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747and again the book is entitled "Baptized Paganism" we'd be happy to send that to anyone who calls and asks. It's 800-835-6747. I think we have time for one more call before we have our break. We have Sonya listening from Toronto Canada. Sonya, Welcome to the program.

Sonya: Hi Pastor Doug How are you?

Doug Batchelor: Doing great, how are you?

Sonya: Thank you. Thank you for taking my call Pastors. My question is, in the Old Testament, you have David the old prophets, David and Joshua and all the patriarchs. They had an era where they fought the king knights and the Silberstein’s and the Sodom and Gomorrah and the Babylonian eras right? Now we're living in the 21st Century now, the church right? and Jesus says greater things we will do, what did Jesus mean by greater things we will do because even though in the old Testament days back when the Bible was being established, we're living in the 21st Century now and I’m wondering are we still fighting these Canaanites and Palestine’s so to speak but what did Jesus mean by we will do greater things?

Doug Batchelor: Alright, Good question. Let me see if I could answer that for you. When Christ said greater things He didn’t mean that the work of the disciples would be greater than His own work. He was talking about that the scope of what they would be doing would be greater in that Jesus work was largely restricted to a small geographic area surrounding Jerusalem and He said you know I am not sent to the gentiles.

I'm sent rather to the lost sheep at the house of Israel and so Christ said you know the Miracles that I have done around the land of Israel, greater things will you do because I am going to the Father to pray for the outpouring of the Spirit. You will then be preaching in Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem and the outermost parts of the earth so the scope of where they went was greater. Now the disciples did heal the sick, they did raise the dead, they did preach with power like Jesus did but it wasn’t saying that their ministry would be more powerful than Christ just the scope of it.

Jëan Ross: You know you ask about being victorious in battle, use some examples in the Old Testament. Remind me of a verse in Ephesians Chapter 6 verse 12, we read, we do not wrestle or fight against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age and Jesus has promised to give us victory if we fight in His strength. Just like David, Joshua and these others gained victory over their enemies, we can gain victory over our enemy which is the devil by trusting in Christ.

Doug Batchelor: You know I bet you Pastor Ross, Sonya would appreciate that book called "The Armor of God" that talks about how we can have those great and powerful victories.

Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747 and you can ask for the book "The Amour of God" and we'd be happy to send that to anyone who picks up the phone and gives us a call. Again the book is "The Amour of God" and the number is 800-835-6747.

Doug Batchelor: You know in just a moment we're gonna be taking a break but before we do I want to remind our friends, first of all we are streaming tonight and if you'd like to tune in and take a look at your computer and see what happens.

You can go to live.amazingfacts.org and if you don’t want to watch we have a website for you that would be dead.amazingfacts.org, just kidding folks, if you don’t want to watch just don’t type anything in and also make sure and check out the amazing facts website because there the website a number of the books that you hear we make available on this program you can read for free there and more and more of our friends are reading and studying the different materials, going through the Bible study guides all at the website.

That is very simply amazingfacts.org and you’ll not only see a broad library of our study materials and publications, there's a big library of media. Radio programs, sermons, videos all right there at that website. You’re listening to Bible answers live

Jëan Ross: One of the websites Pastor Doug that is very popular, dealing with the subject of 666. You know the Bible speaks about the beast and says it's number is 666 and so we have a website just www.666truth.org and if you go to the website you'll be able to look at various Bible references to this and also some good explanations as to what this number really means. Who is the anti-christ? What about this number, the mark? The in Bible prophecy, there's even a quiz you can take about your knowledge of who the anti-christ is

Doug Batchelor: Well that would be kinda fun if you want to find out a lot of different ideas out there. I’ve heard people say that it's everything from Prince Charles in England there's actually a book out about that. Sorry I don’t mean to laugh friend if that's your believe to people used to think it was Ronald Reagan.

I mean there are all kinds of wild views or it's the barcode, what is the mark of the beast? Who is the beast? What does 666 mean? Watch the video that's there, I think you're gonna find that very interesting. One more time that website if you want to understand that subject its 666truth.org. We'll be back

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Doug Batchelor: Welcome to Bible answers Live and once again if you joined us this is a live international, interactive Bible study and you can participate you’re participating now just by listening. Pray for us as we do our best to answer Bible questions coming in from every stripe and type and all kinds of departments and if you want to call in with a Bible questions, it's a free phone call 800-GOD-SAYS got a couple lines still open 800-463-7297.

If the phone rings a little bit we're just waiting for our operators to get to your call, don’t give up the patience of the saints. My name is Doug Batchelor,

Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross and we're gonna go back to Gary who is in Toronto Canada. Gary, Welcome to the program

Gary: Thanks for taking my call

Doug Batchelor: Yea we hear you loud and clear now

Gary: Excellent, Thank you. Hope you’re doing well

Doug Batchelor: Yes

Gary: Okay I have a very quick question. It says in Genesis that God created everything, basically all life. Is it possible that God created life outside of earth? Maybe in another galaxy somewhere?

Doug Batchelor: Well I believe He did, let me read something to you from the book of Hebrews 1:2. God has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things through whom also He made the worlds and that worlds there is plural. The Bible tells us that Christ has created principalities and powers and I believe there are countless other worlds that Jesus has made. I mean do you think that He is from everlasting to everlasting, from eternity past to eternity present.

I don’t think God got the idea to begin creating with our world alone. The Genesis probably begins with the creation of our world but we know that angels existed before our world because it says that sons of God and the morning star sing together at the creation of our world and so there were people watching at the creation in our world

Gary: Very Interesting

Doug Batchelor: Yes, I think there is evidence also in revelation, talks about these creatures around God’s throne that we can hardly describe. Any thoughts on that Pastor Ross?

Jëan Ross: You know you also have in the book of Job; you have this gathering of beings in heaven and this group known as the sons of God and the Satan shows up from earth. He's the representative of earth and it would seem that these sons of God would be representatives of unfallen worlds.

Doug Batchelor: Right, Satan kind of took Adam's place, Adam was the son of God but he sold out when they sinned and the devil said I’m coming representing this planet. So I think there's plenty of evidence, one more there is a parable that Jesus tells that makes some scholars think. Jesus said that it's like a shepherd that has 99 sheep that are safe in the fold but he leaves the 99 that are not lost to go find the one lost lamb.

Well everybody in this planet is lost but the world is like that 1 lost lamb Jesus came into this world, became a man to save this world but there are many non-lost unfallen worlds out there that I think the Lord has made and our planet is quarantined right now because of sin and that's why we don’t interact it them. We've been separated, sin separates.

The only thing I can think of, we have a book called "Aliens, angels are adopted" that talks a little bit about this and its brand new we’ll send you a free copy if you like.

Jëan Ross: You know I don’t even think I’ve seen that book, it must be brand new

Doug Batchelor: It's out, it is, and its the sons of God book

Jëan Ross: Okay I’m familiar there. "Aliens angels and Adopted" or you can ask for the book talking about the sons of God, who are the sons of God. The number to call is 800-835-6747 and ask for the book "Who are the sons of God". 800-835-6747.

Doug Batchelor: Thank you Gary

Jëan Ross: We have Diane who is listening from Baltimore, Maryland. Diane, welcome to the program.

Diane: Good Evening

Doug Batchelor: Evening

Diane: I was reading revelations chapter 4, he was talking about seven Spirits of God and he talked about spirits in plural and I was wondering what that represented and how that was different than the Holy Spirit?

Doug Batchelor: Yea, it talks about actually the 7 Spirits of God there in revelations and the answer that I have that satisfies me, is he's not talking about the Holy Spirit as though it's this being that has multiple personality disorder. I think it's talking about facets of the Holy Spirit’s gifts or character.

Now here's a verse that I use to understand that, it says in Isaiah 11:2, the Spirit of the Lord will rest upon you. Here it's talking about the Messiah, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of wisdom, the Spirit of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. You add those up and that comes to 7 different facets of God's Spirit if you include the Spirit of the Lord as one.

So I think in revelation when it talks about the Spirit of the Lord, well the Holy Spirit is one, ??? but there are different facets. When we pray for wisdom, we're really praying for the Spirit, it's one of the characteristics of the Spirit so that's what I think he means when he says the 7 spirits of God. What do you think Pastor Ross?

Jëan Ross: Yes of course and the number 7 as a symbol in Bible prophecy represents completeness

Doug Batchelor: Perfect number, perfect cycle

Diane: Is that similar to the first or is that different from the first?

Doug Batchelor: Well that is different cause it's the Spirit that gives us the fruits of the Spirit. Which of course are love, joy, peace, that's found in Galatians 5:22 and so the fruits of the Spirit would be different but you know some of them are the same. I think there is probably some overlap there.

Diane: Okay

Doug Batchelor: Hey, Good question. Appreciate that

Diane: Thanks a lot

Doug Batchelor: Thanks Diane

Jëan Ross: We have Stephanie who's listening from New York on WMCA. Stephanie, welcome to the program

Stephanie: Hi, I'm so grateful to be here right now. How are you?

Doug Batchelor: Good, we're glad to have you and your question tonight?

Stephanie: I have a question in regards in Timothy 4 verses 2

Doug Batchelor: now is that 1st or 2nd Timothy?

Stephanie: Verse 2, 2 Timothy 2:2. When it's referring to beasts of burden you can encourage with great patience and even though 1 in 2nd Timothy 3 verse 16 that says all Scriptures God reads useful for teaching and rebuking. I'm in a women and religion class right now and I’m starting to feel that whole anguish because I feel as if like no one understands the gospel and its bringing people further and further away from the truth.

How do you apply these verses while respecting the teacher's syllabus and her choices in how to convince the class but also varying the possibility of getting the word out?

Doug Batchelor: Well you've got a delicate balance here between of course you want to respect your teachers and at the same time if you feel like there's something that's being missed, you can talk to them privately. Wouldn’t want to publicly rebuke a teacher, have you read two verses and use that word.

One way is to write just a heartfelt letter and tell them kind of what you’re saying right now and just communicate in a loving way. You know what you would really enjoy, if you've not done this before Stephanie, amazing facts, if you’re taking theology right now, amazing facts has a Bible study course you can take online at our website called Bible Universe.

It's also Bible university.com or Bibleuniverse.com and the historical Bible studies there would just be such a blessing to you. It fits right in with 2 Timothy 3:16 and in the meantime pray for wisdom, I’d write a kind letter to your teachers and just share with them what your concerns are. Hey thank you Stephanie, Your phone was breaking up a little bit and so we're gonna need to go on to another caller.

Friends we've got a line that's jammed that won’t hang up on us and once we get that resolved we're gonna go back to the phones here. Apologize for this

Jëan Ross: They’re trying to fix the line for us on the other side

Doug Batchelor: Let's tell you what, we're gonna have to wing it here. We see a question from Dave he's listening on Glory Star calling in from UK, California asking about the dead sea scrolls, if there's a difference between them and the Bible and so maybe we'll try and answer some of these questions as they’re typed in on the screen.

The Dead Sea scrolls included a number of books that are not found in the Bible and they were written by the Essenes that lived down there by En Gedi in the Dead Sea. I've been there and I’ve also been to what they call the shrine of the book museum in Israel where they got the Dead Sea scroll on display. The amazing part is they had parts of all the Old Testament books were in the Dead Sea scrolls.

There were some other books that talked about the battle between the sons of light and the sons of darkness but the Isaiah scroll is identical to the Bible that we have today and I remember having my guide go up to the Isaiah scroll and he was able to read some of the ancient Hebrew cause he was very schooled in this and I said pick a spot here, I said read this to me and my guide, I still remember his name was Monty, he began to read from the story of Hezekiah and Sennacherib and those battles and my it was exactly like my Bible today. I got goose bumps so the Dead Sea scrolls really do encourage the confidence in the Bible that it's still accurate today.

Jëan Ross: Let's see if we can get Chris who is listening from Cleveland, Ohio. Chris Welcome to the program

Chris: Hey how's it going?

Doug Batchelor: Good how are you Chris?

Chris: I'm pretty good; my question was about the Garden of Eden. Like in Genesis it mentions God talking to Adam and Eve I was wondering did Jesus meet with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden or was that just God the Father that talked with them or was it one or the other?

Doug Batchelor: I personally think it was Jesus and I’ll tell you why.

Chris: and not God the Father, at all? Just Jesus?

Doug Batchelor: Yes, my reasons being that the Bible seems to say no man has seen God at any time and then Jesus later says no man has seen the Father. So it appears that no man has seen God the Father and it's not that Adam and Eve weren't permitted to but I believe God the Father communicated with them through Jesus and that He's the one that walked with them in the garden. That's what Christ said before Abraham or Abraham longed to see my day and he saw it. So I think it was them that saw Him

Chris: Okay so they never saw God the Father, u don’t think?

Doug Batchelor: You know when Jacob wrestled with the Angel afterwards he said I’ve seen God and I’m preserved when the parents of Samson saw the angel, they said we've seen God and we're gonna die and the wife said no you’re not gonna die why would God reveal himself to you just to kill you? And when he spoke to Moses at the burning bush, he said take off your shoes you’re on holy ground. So I think these are all what they call Christophanies, scholars call these Christophanies. They’re Old Testament times where God speaks face to face with the nation or with individuals and that He did that through Christ.

Chris: Okay

Doug Batchelor: I know it starts getting pretty deep but you know in heaven it says God himself will be with us and we will see His face. So one of the wonderful things about the new earth is I think we're gonna see Him face to face. Now we see through a glass darkly, the divinity of God was veiled in Christ Paul tells us, but actually tells us in Christ the veil is taken away but the divinity of the Father was veiled in Jesus

Chris: Well, thanks for answering my question

Doug Batchelor: Alright thank you and if some of our friends called in, if we lost you during our little episode of technical difficulty give us another try. We do still have lines open, 800-463-7297 seems like things are running again

Jëan Ross: Our next caller is Dineta and she is calling from Lincoln Nebraska. Dineta welcome to the Program

Dineta: Yes, My question is this, in James 5:19-20. It says brethren, if any one among you wonders from the truth and someone turns him back let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his ways will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. Now my question is this, in Matthew 7 Jesus says judge not that you be not judged and then also in James it talks the tongue and it talks about anyone who judges is taking the place of Christ who is the judge and who is the law giver. Where do you draw the line between judging someone and helping them see their error?

Doug Batchelor: Okay, you tied it all together there with your last word that gave me the scope of what you’re saying. It seems like in order for someone to see the error of their ways you have to say brother or sister this is a problem you need to deal with but that could be interpreted as judging them and so where do you draw the line between caring for a brother or sister that may be wondering and it's obvious without looking like you’re judging them.

I think that the answer is people misunderstand what Jesus means when he says Judge not, Jesus never meant don’t go to a brother or sister and say I’m worried about your soul. You know you don’t come to church and you’re hanging out at the bar and if Christians don’t ever approach and talk to their brothers and sisters we end up like Cain where we say am I my brother's keeper, I don’t care what they’re doing.

You do need to care, you got to be careful of condemning them but we need to go after these wandering sheep and say we've got concern that your faith could be slipping or you might be going through a struggle right now. Yea some people might saw you’re judging me but that's a risk you take. Jesus never said don’t judge, He said when you judge use a righteous judgment. When He says judge not He's really using the word condemn, we're not to pass sentence on people cause only God can do that and then He never says you can’t take a speck out of your brother's eye.

You can, He said first take the log out of your eye so you can see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. I have no right talking to somebody about their smoking habit while I’m blowing smoke in their face but if God thank goodness has given me the victory over smoking which He did. I feel like I can talk to someone and say they let me tell you how God helped me with that and you can get the victory too. They might say you’re judging me but you know if we don’t ever talk to anybody no one is gonna be reached. You have to talk to people about their sins and their concern.

Jëan Ross: the Bible tells us we need to discern a tree by its fruit. So of course the tree is a symbol of the person we'll know them by their works so there needs to be some gauge in which we can tell whether a person is doing that is harmful for them and maybe we can be an encouragement and direct them in the right path and that could be interpreted as judging them.

What's the motive behind it? I guess that's the question. What's the motive behind trying to help somebody? Do you have an earnest desire to encourage and help? Are we aware of our weaknesses and our faults? That judgmental attitude could be dangerous

Doug Batchelor: Yea well what James says is really clear, he says if you’re trying to bring someone wandering back from the error of their way or wanting to see people saved or wanted to see them redeemed, it's like going after that lost sheep. I mean if the shepherd just shrugs and says well I don’t want to judge the sheep, you got to go after them. So good question Dineta, I appreciate that and thanks so much for your question.

Jëan Ross: We're gonna see if we can get Auto once again on let's see line 4 here. Auto welcome to the program

Auto: Hi, How are you pastors?

Doug Batchelor: Good, sorry we lost you before

Auto: That's alright, the plight of computers nowadays right?

Doug Batchelor: Exactly

Auto: Anyhow, I’ve got a question about 1 Timothy 3:1-2 where it talks about, at least in the King James it talks about an officer, a bishop of churches. That he should be the husband of one wife sober and good behavior and so forth. It seems to indicate that the leader of a church should be a man and when you look at the previous chapter at the end of it, it talks about the woman should learn in quietness and full submission and so forth. How do those Scriptures fit with women pastors in some churches today?

Doug Batchelor: Well I think that there is a big conflict between what the Scriptures teach on this subject and what's happening culturally in many Christian churches. If we're gonna let culture interpret the Bible then people can come up with all kinds of creative gymnastics how to twist the Scripture to fit what we want it to say but if we're really gonna read it the way it reads all the way through genesis to revelations where God first says to Adam and Eve that there is gonna be a distinction in your roles in Genesis chapter 3 and that men are to be the Spiritual leaders in the family and the church is an extension of the family.

That goes all the way through with the example of the King and the priests, the example of Jesus and the apostles and the early deacons and the elders that we're reading about, elders and bishops. Women had a lot of opportunity for spiritual ministry but God said that the men were to be the serving leaders in the churches.

Auto before I lose you I do have a book I wrote, I can send you a free copy and it's called "The Women in Ministry" and I try to take a very objective Biblical view on this. Probably our lives would be easier if we could find Scriptures that said otherwise but this is what the Bible teaches.

Auto: Yea, in fact I have seen some of your videos even on the subject on YouTube

Doug Batchelor: Well then you know where I stand

Auto: yea, no no, I agree and I praise you for your stand

Doug Batchelor: Well this is something that every church and when I say every church, most, American protestant churches are going through sort of an identity crisis about what do you do in a culture that is has a very progressive view on these things.

In spite of what the Bible says, are we gonna stick with the Bible are we gonna let the Bible interpret itself and if we do, the only way I can understand it is what I shared with you. The example of men being the pastors and the Spiritual leaders in the church and the home. Hey thank you Auto, we're gonna see if we can squeeze in one more question

Jëan Ross: The number for that free book

Doug Batchelor: oh yea, the free book.

Jëan Ross: yes it's 800-835-6747 and the book is entitled "Women in Ministry" 800-835-6747 and if you call for that we'd be happy to send it to anyone who calls

Doug Batchelor: And with that we're gonna move on and talk with Miguel. Calling from Brooklyn New York, Listening on WMCA. Miguel you’re on the air with Bible Answers live

Miguel: My question has to do with the blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the unpardonable sin. Is obviously lots of confusion about what that is, I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on that?

Doug Batchelor: There are people who are back-slidden, like the prodigal son who have not committed the unpardonable sin or like Peter who denied Jesus that obviously was later forgiven and used in ministry or even King David whose major transgression with Bathsheba not as major but number in Israel later and they’re obviously forgiven and put back into service.

There are varying degrees of transgression, David's sin of adultery and murder was a lot more severe than somebody that might lose their temper and utter a swear word but when it talks about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, it doesn’t mean shaking your fists at the heavens and saying a dirty word or using God's name in vain or even cursing the Holy Spirit as awful and sinful as that would be. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, it says all manner of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, even blasphemy.

Paul said I was a blasphemer, so Paul was guilty of blasphemy and to blaspheme the Holy Spirit really means you’re rejecting the moving of the Holy Spirit on your heart over a period of time and it's especially dangerous because you can get where you don’t hear the Holy Spirit anymore. God won’t force Himself on us and something like a person that lives by a railroad or an airport, after a while you could be talking to them and the whole house shakes when the plane takes off and they don’t even notice it because they’ve just gotten used to it and when a person is still sensitive to the Holy Spirit they should listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Listen to the guidance and when we're sorry for the sins we should repent but when we harden our hearts we can get a callous. It's sort of like turning down the radio volume where you just don’t hear it anymore or a person who keeps pressing the snooze button on their alarm clock so they get to where they can sleep right through the alarm. So that's what grieving away the Holy Spirit is, that's what blasphemy.

Paul talks about grieving the Spirit in Ephesians, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is where you grieve away the Spirit. Now it's the Spirit that brings conviction of our sins, if we turn off the source that brings convection and makes us come to Christ then how can God save us if we can’t repent? If we've lost our capacity to repent through the Spirit then how can we be saved? That's really what blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is. So hope that helps a little Miguel, I appreciate your question.

Jëan Ross: Got about 2 minutes left, gonna see if we can go back to Dave calling from Ukiah, California. Dave, you’re on the air

Dave: Hey guys, Just real quick, it wasn’t necessarily about the dead sea scrolls as a matter a fact it was, I have a friend that came to Bible study and he was trying to get to the very originals of written manuscript and writings of how it was really was originally written because he's really trying to seek the truth and he's a new Christian and all this new stuff and he brings to the Bible study a dead sea scroll as a Bible. So I was looking through it with him and a lot of the stuff that was sin there it seemed that some of the Bible of our translations or the ones that we were looking at like the King James, new King James, those were kinda missing of like 2nd Samuel. It wasn’t all there; it was just some parts, some of this and some of that

Doug Batchelor: I’m gonna run out of time, Real quick do you want to frame it as a question? We got like 20 seconds

Dave: Yea, do you know anything about the Dead Sea scrolls Bible and what would the translation agreed upon, is there a Bible translation that was agreed upon or what?

Doug Batchelor: Well, the Dead Sea scroll Bible first of all is incomplete because they didn’t have every book of the Old Testament. Of course none of the New Testament books were in the Dead Sea caves. Part of all the Old Testament books with the exception of the book of Esther were found in those various caves but to try to make a Bible out of that, they were just fragments.

Would be a pretty fragmented Bible, so some publisher thought hey I’m gonna exploit this and tell people we've got the original originals. Fact is there are no originals of the early Scriptures we don’t have the original book written by Moses or by Jeremiah. They’re all copies but we want the most accurate copies. Hey sorry we ran out of time Dave and our other friends but I think we all learned something together. Thanks for joining us, don’t forget a lot more information at amazingfacts.org God bless that we study again next week

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