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David Livingstone's Final Journey

Date: 05/27/2007 
When the famous missionary and explorer David Livingstone died in 1873 his loyal friends Chuma and Susi buried his heart under a tree in Africa as he had requested. They then embalmed his body by filling it with salt and leaving it to dry in the sun for fourteen days.
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Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? When the famous missionary and explorer David Livingstone died in 1873 his loyal friends Chuma and Susi buried his heart under a tree in Africa as he had requested. They then embalmed his body by filling it with salt and leaving it to dry in the sun for fourteen days. Then wrapping it in cloth; they then enclosed the body in the bark of a Myonga tree over which they sewed a sail cloth.

This package was then tied to a long pole; so the two men could carry it along with Livingstone’s important papers. Then they started on a dangerous 11 month, 1000 mile, journey to Zanzibar. When they arrived in February 1874 and they gave the body to the amazed officers of the British council. They could scarcely believe what they were hearing. When the body arrived in England on April 15th; there was some disbelief regarding the identity of the remains, however upon examination of the left arm they saw the awful scar from a lion attack that Livingstone had survived earlier.

At that point all doubt disappeared. On April 18th, 1874 virtually all of London came to a standstill as the remains of David Livingstone were buried in Westminster Abbey. At his funeral along with kings and dignitaries, were his children, Suzie, Henry Stanley and an aged Robert Moffet who had first called Livingstone to Africa 40 years earlier. Did you know that the Bible tells another body that remained embalmed for over a period of 200 years was eventually carried by hand more than 1000 miles before it was buried.?

Stay with us friends; we’re going to learn more as “Amazing Facts” brings you this edition of “Bible Answers Live”.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: You know friends it is amazing to me the mystery of how the sound of a voice can be transformed electronically, bounced off of satellites 23 thousand miles up into space, ricocheted back down to earth and carry the word of God around the world via the satellite and the internet. But, we are so thankful for this technology that makes it possible for us to talk about the most important subject in the world. The purpose of life and how to live forever; namely the Bible is the map to heaven. If you’d like to know more about his purpose and this book, then give us a call. This is a free, interactive, international Bible study. It’s a free phone call 1-800-GOD-SAYS 1-800-463-7297 and we have some lines open. So now is a good time to pick up your phone if you would like to participate tonight. You can also participate by listening and praying for those who are doing their best to answer the questions from the word of God. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: My name is Jean Ross and good evening listening friends. Welcome again to this live, interactive, International and National Bible study. Amen. Before we get started let’s have a word of prayer. Dear Father once more we open up the Bible; we ask the Holy Spirit’s guidance. We recognize that this book in order for it to be rightly understood; we need to have the Holy Spirit’s leading. Be with those listening and those who call in. For this we ask in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen.

Pastor Ross: Now Pastor Doug you had mentioned that there was some individual that was embalmed for more than two hundred years carried a long distance. And obviously you are thinking about someone spoken of in the Bible. Who is this individual?

Pastor Doug: You know if you look in Genesis Chapter 50 as Joseph the book of Genesis actually ends with Joseph. And as a matter of fact the last five words in the book of Genesis are, “In a coffin in Egypt.” It is amazing that the book in Genesis begins with, “In a garden everything is good.” And the book of Genesis ends with in a coffin. And Joseph before he died it says in Genesis Chapter 50:24 He said to his brethren, “I am dying, but God will surely visit you and bring you out of this land into the land which he swore to Abraham and to Isaac and to Jacob. Then Joseph took an oath from the children of Israel saying, “God will surely visit you and you shall carry up my bones from here.” He did not want to be buried in the land of their captivity of Egypt, but he wanted to be buried in the Promised Land. Then you fast forward five books until you get to the book of Joshua and suddenly the bones of Joseph appear again. They had carried them all through this journey. The bones of Joseph which the children of Israel had brought up out of Egypt; they buried at Shechem in a piece of ground that Jacob had bought from the sons of Hamor and it is just such a beautiful story of how Joseph was buried in the land purchased by his father hundreds of years earlier. And they had carried in all those forty years and all their circuitous wanderings in the wilderness his embalmed body. And then David Livingstone’s body was carried and then shipped up to England by whom? Faithful friends, talk about the faithfulness. But, you know we are entering into a weekend here where people are remembering especially those who are in the Armed Services, who have laid down their lives and many cemeteries are being visited. And it is good to do that. The Bible says in Ecclesiastes 7 that it is better to go to the house of mourning than to the house of feasting. For death is really the end of all men and the living will take it to heart. Now when David Livingstone or Joseph was carried about in their embalmed state they were totally oblivious to that. They weren’t uncomfortable. They weren’t hot in the deserts of Egypt or Africa and some people misunderstand that one reason we show respect during these times for the dead is for the living. It is not for the dead.

The dead are not aware that we are there honoring there memory. It is really for the living is what the Bible says and a lot of people misunderstand what is the state of men in death and when does the resurrection take place and when does the judgment take place.

Do people go right to heaven and hell before the judgment? This is a subject that is very confusing for people. Others are trying to communicate with the dead and which is a very dangerous thing—of course it is forbidden in the Bible because likely as not they are conjuring up fallen angels—better known as demons; that can deceive.

And another reason we need to understand this subject is that Revelation tells us in the last days that unclean spirits are going to go forth to the leaders of the world to gather them to the battle of Armageddon. And some people might say oh these are former loved ones that are appearing and how do we know that they are not just fallen angels—or demons? So this subject of what happens when you die and when the resurrection is—it’s a hopeful lesson and we have a study guide with illustrated color. Tell us about that.

Pastor Ross: The study guide is entitled “Are the Dead Really Dead?” And it deals with this important subject of what happens when a person dies. Of course the hope for the Christian is that our death is not the end. The hope is in a resurrection. That’s right and I can’t help but to wonder if Joseph requesting that his bones be taken back to the land that God had promised to Abraham was that he wanted to be in the Promised Land when the resurrection took place because he didn’t want to be resurrected in Egypt, but; he wanted to be resurrected by those great men of faith, the patriarchs of old.

Pastor Doug: The story of Joseph is indicative of everyone’s experience in that we die in this world in the land of slavery, but those who die in faith are raised in Canaan—heavenly Canaan.

Pastor Ross: Yes that’s what we are raised up into a better land.

Pastor Doug: So there is a lot of great symbolism there.

Pastor Ross: Okay well we have some internet questions that have come in and the first one is 1 John Chapter 17:6 and Jesus said that He manifest His father’s name here on earth. Is there a specific name of God that we should use?

Pastor Doug: A good question and now a question often about the name of God is there a specific name and in which we are to pray. God appears by a myriad of names—you know I don’t know if I have ever even tried to count, but there are probably nearly one hundred names in the Bible. And of course in the Old Testament you’ve got El Shaddai and Elohim and Adonai, Jehovah or any derivative of that; no one is exactly sure how that was pronounced. Some say YHWH and what is it–tetragammatron? They are these consonants and they are not even sure how to say it today because it was such a sacred name. You know He calls himself Savior, the Provider; he compares himself even in the Old Testament to our Father. The New Testament it is the “I AM”, the Bread, the Way, the Truth, the Door, the Life, the Water. It goes on the Light, so there are so many names by which God describes himself. Are we required to use only one name when addressing Him? I would say that God is open to us addressing Him by many of His names and some of that may depend on the context in which we are addressing Him. Jesus said when you pray say our Father. In our personal prayer we can have that intimate, our Father. Or formerly I have heard people address Him our Creator. There are titles, there are names that the Lord goes by and of course we should always be with reverence, but in principle when it says the name of God and don’t take his name in vain. It doesn’t mean any one name; it means the person and the reputation and the character of God should be revered. With royalty it was typical in more ancient history; royalty often had titles that were very long. Matter of fact I went to the Monarchy of England and their website this weekend to look at their titles for Queen Elizabeth and I can’t remember it all, but it is pretty big and depending on majesty of the Monarch sometimes the titles were very long. Well then the title of God is immense because He is sovereign over the whole cosmos. So just so it is done with reverence.

Pastor Ross: And the names of God could they be different phases of His character or different manifestations of His character? I am the Light; I am the Bread, I am Lord that created all?

Pastor Doug: When He revealed himself to Abraham on Mount Moriah He was there called God shall provide. Depending upon the story and the context He referred to Himself as the Savior and during the great exodus is where he revealed the name Jehovah. And so the basic names are given based on the story and what their needs were.

Pastor Ross: Okay. The next question that we have is it has to do with Israel and why did God instruct Moses to set up a bronze serpent when Israelites were bitten by snakes in the wilderness since a serpent represents sin or Satan? Why did God not tell Moses to make a lamb which was what represents Jesus?

Pastor Doug: Alright that’s good. You’ll read in 11 Corinthians 5:21 it says, “For he has made him to be sin for us who knew no sin.” Christ when He hung on the cross; He took the curse of sin. It’s something like the story in the Old Testament where the son of David, Christ is the son of David, and David had a real son named Absalom who rebelled like Lucifer, he died hanging from a tree by his head. He was stuck in the tree and he was actually pierced in the heart in that tree and it is a type of Christ became sin for us. Something else that is significant is this was a Sheppard culture in ancient Israel and you know sheep don’t do well with snakes.

A snake can bite a pig or even a dog and survive, but sheep are very vulnerable they will die from a venomous snake bite. And so Sheppards were always clubbing these snakes with their staffs. And that’s one reason they kept them because you don’t pick up a venomous snake with your hand because it still could have life left in it and kill you. So they always picked it up with their stick and carried it off somewhere safe where no one would step on it. So when Moses lifts up a serpent on a stick, it was a very strong symbol to this culture of Sheppards; a defeated serpent. And so Christ being lifted up meant Satan is defeated for us. We look in faith and say sin, the venomous power of sin is going to be defeated in our lives and we can have victory; which is a lot of beautiful symbolism in there.

Pastor Ross: That’s right; beautiful if you look at that story and compare with what Jesus did a number of years ago.

Pastor Doug: You know Pastor Ross if people go look at the archives and it is called the “Sign of the Serpent”. I just remembered that after the question came in and it is beautiful article dealing with the subject.

Pastor Ross: It is available at the “Amazing Facts” website. “Amazing Facts dot org”. Alright we want to go to the phone lines. Jim is listening on internet from Carnarvon, Indiana. Is this Jim are you there? Welcome to the program.

Jim: Yeah. How are you Pastor?

Pastor Doug: Good.

Jim: I always wanted to thank you. I called in a couple of times and I wanted to thank you for leading me to the Lord.

Pastor Doug: Praise God.

Jim: I went over to my sister who gave me your prophecy tapes and I went through them and I was going through quite a few churches at that time and then after I saw them it straightened me all out.

Pastor Doug: You know a lot of people—it is amazing God brings that series into the path of people who are searching. And if you are looking for the truth Jesus promises seek and you shall find. How can we help you tonight?

Jim: Well I had a fellow at work this last week and he asked me about and I didn’t know how to explain it to him. In Genesis 1: 27 He said that God created man in His own image and God created male and female. Then in Chapter 2 It goes through and it says that he created Adam from the dust of the earth and this other fellow was telling me that He created more than just Adam and Eve to begin with.

Pastor Doug: Does he say that because he’s wondering where does Cain’s wife come from?

Jim: No he was telling me that God created a man and a woman in the first chapter and then he created Adam and Eve in the second chapter.

Pastor Doug: Oh alright I understand. You know this is a simple misunderstanding. People especially in America and western cultures do not understand the Middle Eastern or Hebrew mind worked. All through the Bible the writing is often where they give the headline in the first verses. Then they back up and they give the details. You can find this pattern all through the Bible. It is like if you buy a newspaper sometimes it’ll have a headline which is sort of a summary of the story and then you read on you get the story with the detail. Chapter one is the headlines of God made everything. Matter of fact the open verse says He made everything. Then it backs up and it tells you how He made the earth and it goes into the details. Then it tells you that He made man. Then it tells you in the next chapter how He made man and then how He made woman. And you even find that in revelation where it gives the big picture and then it backs up and it gives the details of how this happened. So it is just a simple literary misunderstanding of how he is reading how the Hebrew writes.

Jim: Well he was telling me that his sister belongs to some church and she was telling him what they said because he doesn’t really go to church. And he was trying to explain it to me and he said that his sister even gave the names of the first two that God created before Adam and Eve. And I said well I have read the Bible, too, quite a few times and I have never read that before.

Pastor Doug: You know I have heard—pardon me, but there are some groups out there that have beliefs that are not founded very well. If you go to the New Testament Paul and Jesus are telling us that God made two. Adam and Eve and it names them. There were not four or eight or twelve. And all throughout the Bible it reinforces that the first man was Adam and his wife was Eve and you know this is just wild fantasy speculation when they start saying well there were really another set of humans.

Jim: Yeah well I was kind of trying to tell him that.

Pastor Doug: Like I said read these things in the Old Testament and go to the New Testament and the many references you’ll find to Adam and Eve at the beginning—it never refers to any other; there’s no quartet there, it’s just the two of them.

Jim: Yeah well I think I can get that across to him. There’s one other question I have. I have some…

Pastor Doug: Well I’m sorry to interrupt Jim; I wanted to give you a verse. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. You can probably look at a dozen verses in the New Testament though, but one you can look at is 1 Corinthians—well actually 1 Timothy 2: 13 where Adam was formed first and then Eve and that is pretty clear.

Jim: Yeah. Okay. 1 Timothy 2:13.

Pastor Doug: And then read 1 Corinthians 15:22 and 1 Corinthians 45, I mean anyway there is a lot. But, you had another part to your question?

Jim: Well it is on another question. I have some old study guides and I’m on the elders in the church that I am in now and I was digging through some old papers they have in the attic and kind of like. Where they’re in color and they are from Frederick Manor.

Pastor Doug: Right that’s where we started out.

Jim: And can you guys still get these?

Pastor Doug: You can it is just that they are kind of new and improved. We just put the new artwork in them and they have been revived a little bit. But, the content is basically the same and so if you call the “Amazing Facts” and ask for the Bible study series then you’ll get the fresh version. It is mainly freshened up artwork. But, the truth doesn’t change you know.

Jim: Yeah well I kind of didn’t know if they still print that.

Pastor Doug: Yeah we still do and matter of fact I think they’ve still got some of the old ones still laying around somewhere. If you tell them you want the old ones.

Pastor Ross: Right if you were to tell them and specifically ask if they have any old ones they would maybe be able to get them for you.

Jim: Yeah cause this one here goes through Elder A through L.

Pastor Doug: Yeah and we still do that. We still have that.

Jim: Yeah okay that was what I needed to probably find out because I wanted to pass them out and I only had one set.

Pastor Doug: Well we’ll get you loaded up and thank you a lot and appreciate for your call Jim and you keep watching.

Pastor Ross: Daniel is listening on the internet from Riverside, California. Daniel welcome to “Bible Answers Live”.

Daniel: Hi. Thank you. I have a couple of questions, but they are really short.

Pastor Doug: Okay.

Daniel: Is there any evidence in the Bible that indicates that there are other inhabited worlds? And if so were they created before earth?

Pastor Doug: Well I think there are Scriptures that we can look at. Of other worlds create before our world. For one thing you can read in the book of Job it talks about when God created this world all the sons of God shouted for joy. Who are these sons of God? Well if Adam in Luke Chapter 3 tells us that Adam is referred to as the son of God and he is basically Lord of this world and king of this world; he had dominion. These other sons of God could arguably be leaders of other worlds. And then you read in Hebrews Chapter 1: 2, “God has in these last days spoken to us by His son whom He appointed heir of all things by whom He made the worlds.” Plural and there’s a verse in Colossians.

Pastor Ross: We read about the same thing in Hebrews 11:3, “Where by faith we understand the worlds…” plural “… were framed by the Lord.”

Pastor Doug: Yeah and there’s one in Colossians, but I can’t remember where it is. There are several verses in the bible where it indicates that this planet is not the only intelligent life. Of course, obviously I know God has made angels and seraphim’s and cherubim’s and other creatures. So we know there is life outside of earth. Are you still with us?

Daniel: Yeah. Thanks a lot.

Pastor Doug: Alright appreciate your question.

Pastor Ross: Chris is calling from Washington. Chris welcome to the program.

Chris: Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi how can we help you?

Chris: My question is Romans Chapter 14: 14 that is the verse I mostly want to go to. And it says—well first of all I want to say I am on a very good diet to live longer without disease and I talked to my brother who eats catfish and pork and I said these foods aren’t clean and that certain foods in the Old Testament aren’t clean. And then my brother says well we can’t judge what people eat and then he refers me to Chapter 17 that says the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy. So I will let you answer that.

Pastor Doug: Okay. I appreciate that Chris. In Romans 14:14 it has—let me read it for our friends—“I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself, but to him that seemeth anything to be unclean; to him it is unclean.” If a person reads that without the context of the earlier verses, you could then tell your children that you could play in a sewer because it is not really unclean unless you think it is. Or you could tell your children that you can eat garbage out of the garbage can because it is really not unclean if your conscience doesn’t bother you. Obviously, that would be an absurd interpretation. Some people have used that verse to say as long as you don’t think that something is unclean; you’re fine. Paul in Romans 14 is specifically speaking to believers in Rome—who were being told—these are Gentile believers who were being told by the Jewish believers that they could not eat the foods that were sold in the Roman market place. Now we are talking about clean animals, but they had been offered to pagan gods. And Paul is saying now look if it doesn’t bother your conscience that it was slaughtered in front of a pagan god then; it’s not unclean to you. It had nothing to do with the substance of the food because Paul never mentions any particular food in Romans Chapter 14. He doesn’t talk about camel or sheep or goats or a pig or anything. He’s talking about things sacrificed to idols. So do you see what I am saying the context of this is?

Chris: Thank you very much and that makes sense and I just wanted to ask you another question if that is okay?

Pastor Doug: Sure.

Chris: It says that we are going to be judged by all of our deeds. And I was wondering if we will be judged –and I know it is good to give thanks when we eat a meal and I am really trying to give thanks, but usually I am so hungry I forget to give thanks until after I am eating.

Pastor Doug: Well keep in mind that we are saved by grace because the Bible says—and this is Revelation 20:13 “We are all judged; every man according to their works.” God is not going to consign you to the lake of fire because you forgot to say thank you for your food because you were famished one day. But, you know the more you practice the presence of the Lord, Chris, tonight with my dinner it was so good I was thanking the Lord through the whole thing. And in my mind with every bite I was saying this is sure good. And so it is just an attitude of being aware that God is with you all the time and you will find that you’re in state of communication with Him. But, it is also a good practice even if for your public witness to bow your head—if you’re in a public place just bow your head and thank the Lord. If you are with other believers ask thanks out loud for your food and don’t be ashamed to publically acknowledge God. But, it and don’t worry about—you know I wish that was the only mistake I made—that I maybe forgot to ask grace for my food one day. You are in good shape Chris; if that’s all you’re worried about.

Chris: Well I was going to say what we do is give thanks with other people at the restaurant or at a table, but when I am with myself I forget.

Pastor Doug: Well you know what just say a little prayer and say God you know I want to be a little more grateful and help me to remember and He will.

Chris: He will. You know I just want to tell you that for New Year’s I wanted to speak to God first thing in the morning and remember Him and it works because I prayed it once and now I remember Him every morning.

Pastor Doug: Well there is your answer right there. Just say Lord help me remember you every morning and every meal.

Pastor Ross: That’s right you’ve got it. Our next caller is Jay listening from WMCA New York, New York. Jay welcome to the program.

Jay: Thank you very much and how are you?

Pastor Doug: Good and Jay; we’ve only got a couple of minutes before break so if we could rush into your question.

Jay: Ooh okay I’m going to try to go very fast. This morning we were talking about the flames of fire. You didn’t mention Lazarus and the rich man where Lazarus went to the bosom of Abraham. And the rich man went to the pool of fire.

Pastor Doug: Well that is very simply a parable found in Luke Chapter 16:19 and Jesus uses a number of symbols there He talks about of course Abraham and a rich man who can obviously see each other. But, we know that the saved and the lost are not going to be able to watch each other through eternity. It would be pretty Macomb to think we were watching people burn in fire. It says that one drop of water might cool the tongue and furthermore it tells us that the person that dies they go to Abraham’s bosom. Does every person in the world who dies and is saved go to his bosom of Abraham? So there is a lot of symbolism there. We have a book we will send you because we are cutting you short Jay and it is just called the “Rich Man and Lazarus”. If you ask for it and call the toll free number just ask for “Rich Man and Lazarus”. That is 1-800-835-6747 and friends don’t go away we’re going to take a break. Check out “Amazing Facts dot org”.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: If you have just tuned in you are listening to “Bible Answers Live”. We are a live, international and interactive Bible study. If you can hear my voice and you’re in North America it’s a toll free number. 1-800-GOD-SAYS. 1-800-463-7297 and I am Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Ross: I am Jean Ross. We would like to welcome a new radio station broadcasting “Bible Answers Live” KGU 760 AM from Honolulu, Hawaii. If we have folks listening dive us a call.

Pastor Doug: Aloha and praise the Lord.

Pastor Ross: Or send in your question. We have another one WEKJ 99.1 FM from Florida. So we want to welcome those who are listening. We also want to remind you of some of the websites we encourage you to take a look at. There’s the “Amazing Facts” website and then we have some others.

Pastor Doug: We just had a caller who was asking a minute ago who was asking about the lake of fire and the rich man and Lazarus. There’s just a fabulous website and many people are just terrified and troubled about the teaching of hell and there’s many false teachings connected with hell. Now the Bible is clear that there is a lake of fire and the wicked will be punished, but there are a lot of misconceptions about this. And if you want the Bible truth on this there is a website we recommend highly. It’s called “Hell Truth dot com” matter of fact that website gets a lot of traffic. “Hell Truth dot com” there’s free things you can read and download and a video and print out; just a lot of good resources.

Pastor Ross: And by the way at the “Amazing Facts” website there are a lot of links to some of these websites.

Pastor Doug: The other study to some of the other Bible study websites.

Pastor Ross: Alright and going to the phone lines. Brenda is calling from Detroit, Michigan. Brenda welcome to the program.

Brenda: Hello. Thank you.

Pastor Doug: Hi. And what is your question?

Brenda: My question is in the Bible it talks about Pentecost where the Holy Spirit came down and the people were talking in tongues. This was as evidence that they received the Holy Spirit and my question is can you be saved and not speak in tongues?

Pastor Doug: Well I hope so because there is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus spoke in tongues. And you can look at all of the Old Testament patriarchs, prophets and kings and there’s no record—well I guess that Saul sis fall down and prophesy once, but it doesn’t say he was speaking in tongues. There’s no record of the Old Testament heroes that are saved of doing this. There are only three cases in the New Testament Brenda of anyone speaking in tongues and they are itemized in Acts Chapter 2: and Acts Chapter 10 and Acts Chapter 19. You don’t find any reference to tongues, in the book of Matthew or Luke or John. Peter never mentions it. John does not mention it in his letters. James does not mention it. So most of what you find about tongues is in Corinthians 14 by the Apostle Paul.

And some people have turned this into a doctrine as though we are saved by tongues, but tongues are one of the many gifts of the gifts that are given in the Bible. Tongues are usually at the bottom of the list. The Bible doesn’t say that we are saved by the gifts. We must have the fruit of the spirit not the gifts of the spirit. Gifts are something God gives to one person and not necessarily another and it is not necessary that everyone has the gift of tongues.

Brenda: Okay.

Pastor Doug: You know there is a book that I have written on this subject and I will send you a free copy if you’d like.

Brenda: I would.

Pastor Doug: And it’s simply “Understanding Tongues”. If you call the resource line we will send you a copy and it has been a newly revised version.

Pastor Ross: Brenda what you need to do is call the resource number. It is 1-800-835-6747 and tell them you’d like a copy of Pastor Doug Batchelor’s book “Captured by Tongues” and they will be happy to send that out to you. Alright? Thanks for your call and our next caller is Kevin. And he is listening from Mount Saint Paris, Washington. Kevin welcome to the program.

Kevin: Hi. I’m calling in regard to Revelation 19:16. I’ve talked about this verse with a few people before and I get the impression from some people they use it as an excuse and just to clarify what the verse is talking about it is talking about Jesus when He comes that He has His name written on His thigh; King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And people use that as an idea of having a personal tattoo and I disagree with them.

[Laughter]

Pastor Doug: I have never heard of that used that way. Sorry, but go ahead.

Kevin: Well that’s aside from my point, but I guess I can understand if that is what it means, but I think that’s not what it means and I am just wondering if that is a prophetic book and what is the symbolism? Does it have anything to do with Joseph when he was reigning in Egypt; his dad came and he put hand on his thigh and then as well is when Abraham?

Pastor Doug: When Eleazar put his hand on Abraham’s thigh and made a vow. Well you are on the right track.

Kevin: And well yeah I was just wondering as to what exactly is that symbolism there?

Pastor Doug: The thigh—when you put your hand on someone’s thigh it meant this is the place that I stand on and I am sitting down on this promise and it is dependable. And so when somebody made a vow and they would place their hand on or under someone’s thigh; it meant that this is a sure vow.

Pastor Ross: It was also an indication of strength because the thigh was the strongest muscle in the body, Jesus having “The King of Kings and Lord of Lords” on his thigh; a symbol of strength and a symbol of victory.

Pastor Doug: Yeah exactly. I used to try to impress people. I would tell them you know when I go to the gym I can press 750 pounds. And they go wow you’re kidding. I’d say yeah, but I didn’t always want to tell them it was with my legs.

[Laughter]

Pastor Doug: Yeah because you could press theoretically about three times as much with your legs than you can with your arms. As yeah as Pastor Ross said it is a sign of strength. And keep in mind—and you know in Revelation Chapter 1 Jesus is pictured as with a sword coming out of His mouth; well that’s a symbol for the word of God because Jesus is not going to walk around heaven with a sword in His mouth and a tattoo on His thigh. These are obviously symbols of His strength, His dependability, His word and no doubt from people from people who take it literally and try to abuse it.

Kevin: Alright. Okay because I also felt that Jesus isn’t coming with His name on His thigh or anything for the fact that we are going to know who He is. We are not going to have to lift up His pant leg or whatever to find out what His name is.

Pastor Doug: Exactly right. Exactly right.

Kevin: Alright. Thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Good question.

Pastor Ross: Joseph is listening on WMCA from New York, New York. Joseph welcome to “Bible Answers Live”.

Joseph: Good evening gentlemen.

Pastor Doug: Good evening. How can we help you?

Joseph: I heard that on the temple door there are secret or regular writing. Is that true or not?

Pastor Doug: Well I don’t know. There is no reference in the Bible that I know of to any writing. Of course there were not regular hinged doors on the Tabernacle that they built in the desert that was a curtain. But, when Solomon built the temple there were doors. I don’t recall, but I could be wrong Pastor Ross, but I don’t recall where they said there is any writing on the doors. Do you know of that?

Pastor Ross: I am just thinking I do know there’s writing on the little wall that is separated in the courtyard which the Jews could pass over, but the Gentiles could not. There was a Scripture on there, but on the actual door itself; I am looking here to see, but nothing comes to mind.

Pastor Doug: Yeah I have sometimes blurted something out in a definite way and then found out later that I was wrong. I don’t have the Bible memorized, but I don’t recall anything in the Bible and I think it would have jumped out at me if there was an inscription on the doors. Now it would have to have been the doors of the temple made in one of the last three permanent temples mainly Solomon’s temple, the one that was built by Nehemiah that was later refurbished by King Herod the Great, but I don’t think there is anything in the New Testament.

I am fairly certain I don’t remember anything in the Old Testament. So there may have been something, but there is no record in the Bible. And I have not read it in any commentary.

Joseph: Apparently you mentioned something about Absalom being killed in a tree. Was that an accident?

Pastor Doug: Yes. When Absalom was fleeing during the final battle between David’s army and they were retreating and Absalom was riding through the woods of Ephraim. He was evidently looking back over his shoulder and not paying attention where he was going because the army of David was chasing after him and his horse, actually it was a mule, ran underneath the boughs of a very thick called a tarragon tree and his head got caught in the fork of this tree and the mule rode out from underneath him and he was left in between heaven and earth. Probably unconscious because later when the soldiers found him he was alive and they killed him.

Joseph: You mentioned something else though Pastor about the Abraham’s bosom. Is that supposed to be heaven or is that just a term they use?

Pastor Doug: That is a descriptive tem that is used for being where the father of the Jews is. Abraham was considered the father of the Hebrews. And when Jesus says that this poor beggar went to Abraham bosom He is saying that there are some who do not look like their favorite on earth, but it doesn’t even tell us if he was a Jew to be in Abraham’s bosom. All through Christ’s ministry he said many will come from the east and the west and sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Meaning you don’t only have to be a Jew to be with Abraham. So that was all that Christ was emphasizing.

Joseph: Does that mean in heaven?

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Joseph: May I ask you one last question Pastor?

Pastor Doug: Well okay that will make it three; real quick Joe.

Joseph: Is it true that Jesus during His entire lifetime never committed one sin?

Pastor Doug: Now that I can give you a Scripture for. The Bible says He knew no sin. He said the devil comes and there was nothing in me. Jesus was sinless. And neither did He commit any sin. And Pastor Ross is looking up one of those many references because it talks about the sinlessness of Christ. Jesus was a sinless sacrifice.

Pastor Ross: Yes. Okay we’ve got that verse it is actually what Paul refers to when he speaks of Jesus and he says with Him there was no sin at all in Romans Chapter 5:13 as well as Romans Chapter 7: 17 and so on; a number of references to that.

Okay our next caller is Frank and he is listening to WMCA from Manhattan, New York. Frank welcome to the program.

Frank: Yes. Hello.

Pastor Doug: Hi Frank. You are on the air.

Frank: Yeah before we start I would just like to say I filet Yahweh’s word. I just love it so much. Okay my question to you is that when you spoke about Adam and Eve before, and my question is this; we know about the death of Adam and we know about his sons and Cain and Abel. There’s nothing about Eve, what happened to her?

Pastor Doug: Well you’ll find in the Bible Frank that very rarely does it mention the demise of the women. It was a patriarchal…

Frank: It’s not the point it if he created Adam and Eve man and woman two out of one flesh, what happened to Eve after death?

Pastor Doug: Oh well Eve dies.

Frank: Well where is she? It’s not in the Bible.

Pastor Doug: It doesn’t mention the death of most of the people in the Bible. It says how long they lived, but it measures the age based on the age of the father. It will tell how old the father was when he had his first born. How old he was when he died. It never mentions the women.

Frank: Alright so my next question is why isn’t Eve mentioned in the Bible that she dies? It mentions then Adam dies blah, blah, but nothing about Eve that is my question.

Pastor Doug: Well my answer is still the same. Is that you are not going to find that any of the women none of the wives of the patriarchs are mentioned when they die. I think the first one it mentions is when Sarah dies. And it does mention the death of Rachel and Sarah and Rebecca. But, it doesn’t even mention Rebecca. But, typically it doesn’t talk about the women because it measures the chronology by the fathers and that is the only reason I can give you for that, but Eve died.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Ron and he is calling from Leona Valley, California listening on KTRE. Ron welcome to the program.

Ron: Thank you.

Pastor Doug: How can we help you tonight?

Ron: Well my question is that I just read this booklet by Joe Crews “Hidden Eyes and Closed Ears”.

Pastor Doug: Yes.

Ron: And on page 26 he is saying that Sunday keeping is connected with the mark of the beast. Does this mean as a Sunday worshipper I do not have salvation?

Pastor Doug: I don’t know let me explain. One of the Ten Commandments is the Sabbath, right?

Ron: Right.

Pastor Doug: Okay the bible tells us that sin is the transgression of the law. Are we still together?

Ron: Yeah I understand.

Pastor Doug: Well I am just quoting Scripture. Furthermore James tells us that sin is knowing to do good and not doing it. Now will there be—I am answering your question with a question Ron because I don’t want you to corner me with a misconception. Will there be people in heaven that had too many wives? Yeah it is sort of like a rhetorical question people like King David he had multiple wives and Soloman and some of these patriarchs like Abraham they are going to be in heaven even though they practiced polygamy.

Ron: Right.

Pastor Doug: God winked at their ignorance because they didn’t know. In the same way there are going to be millions of people who kept the first day of the week as the Sabbath because they didn’t know and even though Biblically we read it is the seventh day and nowhere does it say it is the first day. But, in the last days this is going to be an issue about are we going to return to the faith in the Bible before Jesus comes back? And that’s I think the point that Joe is making in his book. So when you asked are Sunday keepers all going to be lost because they keep Sunday the answer is no. There’s going to be a lot of Sunday keepers in heaven and even though there is going to be a lot of seventh day Sabbath keepers in the lake of fire. Do you see what I am saying? That sin is knowing God’s will and not doing it. And when God reveals a truth to a person and they turn away from that truth whatever it is whether it is the Sabbath truth or the truth about polygamy and they do not walk in the light then it is sin. Jesus said I think in John Chapter 9 that He did not see that you would have no sin. So when one knows God’s will and they do not do God’s will then it becomes sin for them.

Ron: I realize that and like I say I sin every day.

Pastor Doug: Well do you believe that we can have victory over sin?

Ron: Oh yeah.

Pastor Doug: Well I think that is the thing.

Ron: Well we can have victory over it and then we can go on and sin.

Pastor Doug: Well now that is a bigger I think of your two questions that we are talking about. Does Jesus –can He grow us in sanctification so that we are becoming more like Christ? If we are sinning just as much after accepting Christ as before then what are we saved from?

Ron: Well I think that I am growing in Christ.

Pastor Doug: Well that’s the thing. Don’t become—and there are a lot of Christians out there and I am not saying you are one of them—but, a lot of Christians become complacent they say well we all sin so they don’t make an effort to be Christ-like; where in reality Jesus came to save us from our sins. I used to drink and smoke and curse and all kinds of things and while there is still selfishness and sin in my life, praise God I don’t do those things anymore. So I see there’s a change and He is freeing me and so I just also wanted to press that point home. I hope that helps a little bit Ron. We are actually behind on out budgeting questions tonight. So we are going to try to take a few more.

Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Lisa and she says she is listening on the in- ternet from Pennsylvania. Lisa welcome to the program.

Lisa: Hello.

Pastor Ross: Hi your question?

Lisa: Yeah I was wondering about Romans 14:2 it says, “One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man whose faith is weak eats only vegetables.” That doesn’t say much for vegetarians does it?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, but it is not talking about vegetarians here. Let me go back to an earlier question that someone asked about Romans 14. It is the same story that Paul is addressing a group of believers that were hyper paranoid about eating any meat. And not because it was sheep or goats or what the nature of the meat was, but they were paranoid about eating meat that had been offered to these pagan Roman gods.

They were living in Rome. The book is written to Romans. They were Roman Christians. And Paul was saying look if you are afraid to eat some sheep that you but in the marketplace—see you know today people go to the supermarket and we go to Albertson’s or Safeway or Aldis or one of these supermarkets and if you are on the East coast it is Winn-Dixie, or Publix an I’ve been all over the country and all of these supermarkets chains and you go to the meat section and you just buy your meat and you don’t think much about the slaughter house and where it came from.

In Rome when they slaughtered animals to be sold in what they called the shambles; the flea markets, they were offered to gods as they were slaughtered. The believers in Rome were thinking I can’t eat that chicken or that goat or whatever it is because I’ll be giving some kind of credit to this god whatever it is. I’ll just stick to vegetables because I don’t know what god this has been offered to. And so Paul said those who have weak fait just eat vegetables because they are afraid to eat any meat and it had nothing to do with vegetarianism. It is talking about weak faith not weak bodies. Did that make sense?

Lisa: Umm-hmm.

Pastor Doug: Yeah okay it is not talking about whether there is any benefit to eating spinach, broccoli or goat. It’s talking about eating things sacrificed to idols or not eating things sacrificed to idols.

Pastor Ross: You know Pastor Doug we have had several callers ask about this passage in Romans 14. We have a study guide dealing with health principles on what you can eat and what you can’t eat.

Pastor Doug: Yeah that’s good.

Pastor Ross: It is called “God’s Free Health Plan” and we want to make that available to anyone who is listening by calling the resource number 1-800-835-6747. If you want to learn more about what the Bible says you can eat and what you should and shouldn’t eat; ask for “God’s Free Health Plan”. And we’ll be happy to send that out to you. Our next caller is Winfred and he is listening from KDIA in Oakland, California. Winfred welcome to the program.

Winfred: Thank you I am enjoying myself here. It is ironic that you are answering question and ironic to get through eating vegetables and meat even though the sermon wasn’t pertaining to vegetable.

Pastor Doug: Yes. You know your phone is breaking up a little bit Winfred. Can you say your question and we will do our best to answer it?

Winfred: Okay. Alright is there Scripture for—can you hear me now?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well it is scratchy.

Winfred: Is there Scripture that says that if Satan would have known that by Christ being crucified it would save souls he wouldn’t have allowed it? Even though we know; that he didn’t have the power to allow it or not.

Pastor Doug: Okay let me see if I can review that for you. Is there any Scripture that tells us that once Satan knew that or if Satan had known by Christ’s death that others would be saved that he might have prevented it or have not even wanted Christ to die? No I don’ think there is any Scripture that words it that way Winfred. I think that the devil knew what Jesus’ mission was and he wanted Him to sin. And he wanted Him through the torture he was doing and keep in mind that Satan plain old hates Jesus. The battle that you saw at the cross began in heaven between Christ—prior to the incarnation and Lucifer. And Satan just wanted to basically extract every ounce of suffering he could from Christ and I think he was honestly hoping that He wouldn’t rise.

Pastor Ross: And of course Jesus or His plan of salvation is not dependent upon what Satan does. That’s not to say that Jesus might not have been crucified. Jesus in John Chapter 10:18 it says, “No man taketh…” speaking of His life “…it from me, but I lay down myself for God to take it up again.”

Pastor Doug: Good point.

Pastor Ross: So it wasn’t Satan that we sort of have to thank for Christ’s atoning sacrifice, but without a doubt Jesus laid down His life and the devil tried to make it just as difficult as he could.

Pastor Doug: Yes that’s the point and hope that helps Winfred.

Pastor Ross: Alright Jonathan is listening from Taylor, Michigan. Welcome to the program.

Jonathan: Yes how are you?

Pastor Doug: Very well. How can we help you?

Jonathan: Good. Yes I have three questions if that would be okay?

Pastor Doug: Well let’s start with the first one.

Jonathan: Okay let’s start with the first one. The Bible didn’t speak on Joseph’s death or anywhere when Jesus was crucified what happened to Joseph?

Pastor Doug: That is a good question. You know that is something of a mystery, but most Bible scholars believe that Joseph died before Jesus began his public ministry because you never hear about Joseph and when Mary appeared; she appears often with the brothers and sons with no reference to Joseph. Joseph probably had died from old age or some other sickness or something; prior to Christ beginning His ministry. The last time you hear about Joseph is when Jesus is twelve years old.

Jonathan: Right. Right. Okay the next question is in Revelations Chapter 17 it mentions that the woman was drunk on the blood of the saints and does that mean that’s us now or after the rapture comes?

Pastor Doug: Well you were right the first time. The woman; this—there are two women in Revelation—one represents the church of God clothed in the sun, moon and the stars pure light. And the woman in Revelation 17 represents all of the false religions and imparticular is the last from the time of Christ to the second coming and the institution of Babylon has been in opposition. And you know what Jonathan we’ve actually got a study guide that is called “The Other Woman” that deals with Revelation 17 and identifies who they are. Matter of fact we’ve got a study guide called “Bride of Christ” that deals with the woman in Revelation 12. If you’d like a copy of one of them we’d be happy to send that.

Pastor Ross: You might want to get both actually.

Jonathan: I want to get both.

Pastor Ross: Ask for—well let me give you the resource number. 1-800-835-6747 and then give that a call and then ask for our two study guides that are linked here. The number is 1-800-835-6747; then ask for the study guide “The Bride of Christ” dealing with Revelation 12 and “The Other Woman” dealing with Revelation Chapter 17 and that will clear up a lot of questions and misunderstandings that people have in reference to who Babylon is.

Pastor Doug: And we’re probably going to have to cut you off Jonathan because we still have people who are waiting in line and we are running out of time.

Pastor Ross: Alright we’re going to our next caller Ricky listening on KLPJ from Minnesota welcome to the program.

Ricky: Hi this is Ricky and I just wanted to say a Happy Birthday to my sister who is listening in Atlanta.

[Laughter]

Pastor Doug: Well I’m glad she’s listening.

Ricky: Yeah and my question is there any chance that Revelation 1:10 can be referring to the day of the Lord?

Pastor Doug: Do you mean where it talks about that I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day?

Ricky: Yeah.

Pastor Doug: You know I have heard people use it that way, but that would be the only time that it is worded like that. When it says and this is for or friends listening Revelation 1: 10 at the beginning of John’s vision. This is the Apostle John’s vision of Revelation. He says, “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day.” Now there are many times when John in his earlier books refers to the end of the world, the last day, this is the only time he calls it the Lord’s Day.

And so let me take a crack at what I believe that day is. I don’t think it is talking about the Judgment Day of course he saw the Judgment Day in his vision and he saw the whole horizon of the prophecy in his vision; not just that one day. But, if you read in Isaiah Chapter 58 it talks about the Sabbath as my holy day. And of course in the Ten Commandments you can read in the fourth commandment is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. And so Jesus said I am Lord of the Sabbath.

There are several verses in the bible where God identifies the seventh day of the week as His special day. And so some scholars have thought that well there were mines on Patmos and the Roman prisoners were often forced to work in the mines on Patmos. John with no doubt refused to do that on the Sabbath day. He probably had the vision of Revelation on the Sabbath day.

Is that what your understanding is Pastor Ross?

Pastor Ross: Yes I was going to mention those same verses Pastor Doug as you talked about in Isaiah 58:13 and also looked in Mark Chapter 2: 28, Matthew 12:8 and then of course the Sabbath commandment Exodus Chapter 20:10 that identifies the Lord’s day as the Sabbath.

Pastor Doug: Seventh day of the week and it’s made by God for man according to the Scriptures. Well you can tell friends from the music that is chasing us away before we bid farewell again. Thank you for tuning in and please remember this is a faith ministry and we’d love to hear from you. You can just go right to the internet and just go to “Amazing Facts dot org” to contact us and drop us a line and let us know if the program has been a blessing. Put something in there for us. And remember that is all about Jesus. He is the truth that will set you free. God bless.

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The Life of Victory by Meade MacGuire

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